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Navigating Love And Money · A Little Bit Richer

• 0:01
  Kia Commodore: When I was a kid, I always got told it
• 0:03
  Kia Commodore: was good to share, but does that mean money too?
• 0:06
  Kia Commodore: A few episodes back, we were talking about financial abuse
• 0:08
  Kia Commodore: and Katie made a point saying that it's important not
• 0:11
  Kia Commodore: to be put off sharing finances with a romantic partner.
• 0:14
  Kia Commodore: There are benefits to it, although it can still get messy if
• 0:17
  Kia Commodore: you don't have a solid plan in place. So, today,
• 0:19
  Kia Commodore: I'm talking to Amy James, a product manager at Legal &
• 0:23
  Kia Commodore: General. When she and her partner Dan decided that they'd
• 0:25
  Kia Commodore: like to settle down together, he revealed that he had
• 0:28
  Kia Commodore: built up some significant debts. Her story is about how
• 0:31
  Kia Commodore: they worked together to get to a stronger financial place.
• 0:36
  Kia Commodore: Amy, great to have you here, but can you give
• 0:38
  Kia Commodore: us a brief overview of your experiences sharing your finances
• 0:42
  Kia Commodore: with your partner, Dan?
• 0:44
  Amy James: Dan and I met when I was 22, and I
• 0:46
  Amy James: think we have hit every milestone along the way in
• 0:49
  Amy James: terms of how we have shared our finances. Early days,
• 0:52
  Amy James: I mean, very much like most couples, what was mine
• 0:54
  Amy James: was mine, what's his was his. We lived very independently
• 0:57
  Amy James: and dated like that for about a year. And then,
• 0:59
  Amy James: the role that I had took me to a point
• 1:01
  Amy James: where we had to decide do I want to move
• 1:02
  Amy James: to the same city as him or was I going
• 1:04
  Amy James: to stay? So, we decided that I would move in
• 1:07
  Amy James: with him in his flatshare with some of his other
• 1:08
  Amy James: friends, so that was kind of our first step into,
• 1:10
  Amy James: okay, so what does that mean for our shared finances?
• 1:13
  Amy James: At that point, again, we just contributed to each other's
• 1:17
  Amy James: little pot that goes into the shared household. And about
• 1:21
  Amy James: a year after that, living in a shared housing, I
• 1:23
  Amy James: was like, " Great, I'm saving loads of money here," so
• 1:26
  Amy James: I'm either quite happy to do this, or actually we've
• 1:28
  Amy James: done this for a year, do we want to live
• 1:29
  Amy James: just the two of us? I think that was the
• 1:31
  Amy James: pivotal first conversation that we had about what's next for
• 1:34
  Amy James: both of us. And it was at that point that
• 1:36
  Amy James: Dan said he had a little bit of debt, not
• 1:38
  Amy James: that much, just a few thousand pounds. It was enough
• 1:41
  Amy James: for me to worry about, but go, " Okay, that's fine."
• 1:44
  Amy James: We're clearly in different financial positions. So, at that point,
• 1:47
  Amy James: we said, " Well, we don't want to stay living in
• 1:49
  Amy James: a house share, but we'd like to get our own
• 1:51
  Amy James: place. We're not ready to jump straight into buying somewhere
• 1:53
  Amy James: together because we're not in the same financial position." So,
• 1:56
  Amy James: the agreement was Dan would keep paying off his debt
• 1:58
  Amy James: and he said he was in control of that, but
• 2:00
  Amy James: I would keep saving towards a house that we would
• 2:02
  Amy James: eventually buy, so we moved in together. About coming up
• 2:07
  Amy James: to 12 months from having kind of moved in together
• 2:09
  Amy James: and renting, I saw one of the apartments in our
• 2:12
  Amy James: building come up for sale and I thought, " Well, we
• 2:13
  Amy James: love where we live. We're close to town. It's a
• 2:15
  Amy James: lovely building and I've probably got enough money to buy
• 2:18
  Amy James: that with a mortgage." That was kind of the next
• 2:24
  Amy James: conversation, so we said, " Yep, that's great." I don't think
• 2:26
  Amy James: we revisited sort of how far Dan had come in
• 2:28
  Amy James: his debt. We were probably still kind of fairly ignorant
• 2:32
  Amy James: and living in happy bliss of each other's finances, but
• 2:34
  Amy James: feeling like that comfortable arrangement was underneath of it, that Dan
• 2:37
  Amy James: was paying off debt and I was saving. So, it
• 2:39
  Amy James: was no surprise to him that I had enough savings
• 2:41
  Amy James: to kind of put down that deposit. So, we put
• 2:44
  Amy James: down the deposit. We said we'd buy the house. Dan
• 2:46
  Amy James: was very adamant that it would be my house and
• 2:48
  Amy James: he didn't want to go on the mortgage, that it was
• 2:50
  Amy James: going to be for me. He couldn't contribute towards the
• 2:52
  Amy James: deposit and he felt that was fair. I was like, "
• 2:54
  Amy James: All right, I don't really mind." I knew that I was
• 2:57
  Amy James: buying it as our first home that we were going
• 2:58
  Amy James: to live in together, so whether he was on it
• 3:00
  Amy James: or not kind of didn't bother me, but I understood
• 3:03
  Amy James: better when it came to that kind of first month
• 3:06
  Amy James: that we were ready to make that exchange, everything's culminating,
• 3:09
  Amy James: and Dan started to look quite worn out, quite stressed.
• 3:12
  Amy James: It was very visible on him, and one day, I
• 3:15
  Amy James: came back from a work trip and he just broke,
• 3:17
  Amy James: and he confessed that actually he had a lot of
• 3:19
  Amy James: debt. He had been paying it off in the last year,
• 3:22
  Amy James: but what might've been 3 or 5, 000 pounds of
• 3:26
  Amy James: debt was not. It was more than his annual salary
• 3:29
  Amy James: in debt.
• 3:31
  Kia Commodore: Wow.
• 3:31
  Amy James: Yeah. So, yes, that was a critical milestone.
• 3:37
  Kia Commodore: Wow. So, that is quite a journey that you guys
• 3:41
  Kia Commodore: have been on, and I mean, that is quite a
• 3:44
  Kia Commodore: revelation. I can't even imagine how it is, you think
• 3:47
  Kia Commodore: one thing in terms of the amount of debt your
• 3:49
  Kia Commodore: partner's got, and then it ended up being something completely different.
• 3:51
  Amy James: Yeah. Quite a shock.
• 3:53
  Kia Commodore: If we talk about that process then, what was the
• 3:55
  Kia Commodore: most important and helpful thing that helped you through going
• 4:00
  Kia Commodore: through getting your first property and just having a conversation?
• 4:04
  Amy James: Well, it was once we were in that situation that,
• 4:07
  Amy James: I mean, everything has to come to a head at
• 4:09
  Amy James: that point, doesn't it? Because it was a question of,
• 4:10
  Amy James: well, do I continue to buy this apartment? What if
• 4:12
  Amy James: we can't afford it? I'd intended for us to live
• 4:14
  Amy James: in it and share those expenses together. I was able
• 4:17
  Amy James: to afford that mortgage by myself. That's the point. So,
• 4:20
  Amy James: that was comfortable and we agreed that, okay, that's what
• 4:23
  Amy James: we're going to do. I was going to continue to
• 4:24
  Amy James: buy the house, but there was no more of me saying, "
• 4:27
  Amy James: Okay, that's fine, Dan. You just carry on in the
• 4:29
  Amy James: background paying off your debt." We had a much more
• 4:31
  Amy James: visible shared sense of each other's finances, but also it
• 4:35
  Amy James: forced us to sort of embrace this idea, an understanding
• 4:40
  Amy James: that yes, we could have probably kept independent and that
• 4:44
  Amy James: might've meant that I could afford things that he couldn't
• 4:46
  Amy James: afford or I'll pay for you to go on holiday
• 4:48
  Amy James: because I want us to go on holiday together, but
• 4:50
  Amy James: actually, we knew we were doing this as the next
• 4:52
  Amy James: step of our lives and our partnership together. So, I
• 4:56
  Amy James: looked at that as I want our finances to be
• 4:59
  Amy James: shared together, so if we've got all of this money
• 5:01
  Amy James: to pay off, I see it as you do, but I
• 5:03
  Amy James: want to help you pay that off because what happens
• 5:06
  Amy James: to you is going to impact what happens to me.
• 5:08
  Amy James: But I think we found a mutual respect for one another and
• 5:11
  Amy James: in the steps that we took, so we rented out
• 5:14
  Amy James: one of the rooms in my new apartment and my
• 5:16
  Amy James: brother came to live with us, so that helped pay
• 5:19
  Amy James: towards it. Dan had to sell his car, but we
• 5:20
  Amy James: lived in the City Centre, so it was one of
• 5:22
  Amy James: those... That was a heartbreak, but we lived with it. Exactly.
• 5:24
  Amy James: But those were big commitments. He also quit smoking and
• 5:27
  Amy James: that was huge because that was a big expense. So,
• 5:29
  Amy James: there were a couple of big lifestyle changes between us
• 5:32
  Amy James: both that went towards paying off all of that debt.
• 5:35
  Kia Commodore: I think that's really good. Hearing your story I think
• 5:38
  Kia Commodore: is probably reminiscent to a lot of our listeners. It's
• 5:42
  Kia Commodore: such a mature conversation that you had and it's a
• 5:44
  Kia Commodore: difficult one, and we said it before on this podcast
• 5:48
  Kia Commodore: that money is such a taboo topic, and especially talking
• 5:51
  Kia Commodore: about it when you're not in a great place, people
• 5:53
  Kia Commodore: shy away from it. So, it makes sense why maybe
• 5:56
  Kia Commodore: he wasn't forthcoming initially, but you two putting together that
• 6:00
  Kia Commodore: plan and saying, " You know what? We're a partnership. We're
• 6:02
  Kia Commodore: going to figure this out together." But equally, you not
• 6:04
  Kia Commodore: taking full ownership of his debt, which you could have
• 6:08
  Kia Commodore: have stepped in like you said and said, " You know
• 6:09
  Kia Commodore: what? I'm just going to help you pay off." But
• 6:11
  Kia Commodore: coming together and helping him manage his money I think
• 6:14
  Kia Commodore: is really key. I want to bring it to your
• 6:17
  Kia Commodore: everyday now, so what does that arrangement look like now
• 6:20
  Kia Commodore: with your everyday finances, the two of you?
• 6:23
  Amy James: Well, we fast- forward five, six years now actually. We
• 6:27
  Amy James: jumped. We paid off all that debt. We set ourselves that goal
• 6:30
  Amy James: that we said we'd pay it off in three years
• 6:32
  Amy James: and we actually paid it off in just under three years
• 6:34
  Amy James: because we were getting married, and we made a big
• 6:36
  Amy James: kick at the end to say, " We want to start
• 6:38
  Amy James: our lives. I'm married without all of this debt behind
• 6:40
  Amy James: us." Now, we have our finances completely joint actually. Slowly,
• 6:44
  Amy James: our finances just came together to the point where everything
• 6:47
  Amy James: was going into that joint account, so there was no
• 6:49
  Amy James: more sort of just splitting the bills. Both of our
• 6:51
  Amy James: incomes went into it, and that's made a big difference
• 6:53
  Amy James: for my everyday now because we now have a little
• 6:55
  Amy James: girl. She's three. And when it came to big decisions,
• 6:59
  Amy James: again, like maternity leave, suddenly I'm the one who's at
• 7:03
  Amy James: the financial detriment because it's my income that's taking a
• 7:05
  Amy James: hit, not Dan's. And actually, well, there was no question
• 7:09
  Amy James: that that was just a joint hit. It wasn't my
• 7:11
  Amy James: hit to take on my own and my finances. Our
• 7:13
  Amy James: household income took the burden of having to take the
• 7:16
  Amy James: maternity leave, and then what does childcare look like? All
• 7:19
  Amy James: of that comes from our family finances as opposed to
• 7:23
  Amy James: his or mine.
• 7:24
  Kia Commodore: Well, I think it's great, like you said, your approach
• 7:26
  Kia Commodore: to finances now. I mean, congratulations on getting it all
• 7:29
  Kia Commodore: wiped off and having the wedding that you wanted, and being able
• 7:32
  Kia Commodore: to do that, I think that is such a testament in
• 7:34
  Kia Commodore: your journey and your story together with the partnership. But I
• 7:37
  Kia Commodore: think even just seeing how you guys manage your money,
• 7:41
  Kia Commodore: and join your finances, you obviously have your strong money
• 7:44
  Kia Commodore: management that you've got yourself innately, and I think there's
• 7:47
  Kia Commodore: so many different things that people can do. Whenever I
• 7:50
  Kia Commodore: talk to people who were a couple, there are things
• 7:51
  Kia Commodore: like money dates. I'm not sure if you guys do
• 7:53
  Kia Commodore: money dates where you kind of get-
• 7:54
  Amy James: We do.
• 7:55
  Kia Commodore: ... together and talk about it.
• 7:55
  Amy James: Yeah. I don't know that I'm as glamorous as calling it a money date.
• 7:59
  Kia Commodore: But you come together and talk about finances.
• 8:01
  Amy James: We absolutely do that, yeah. We sit down and we look
• 8:02
  Amy James: through what are the bills and kind where we at,
• 8:04
  Amy James: and we have that open conversation about what is our
• 8:07
  Amy James: next goal? So, it was really obvious when it was
• 8:09
  Amy James: paying off debt, but once we paid off debt, then
• 8:11
  Amy James: it was, well, actually we're going to get married. Do
• 8:12
  Amy James: we want to save for a wedding? Do we want
• 8:14
  Amy James: to save for a new house? We have. We've bought
• 8:17
  Amy James: a new family home, rather than our little first apartment.
• 8:19
  Amy James: What were each of those goals that we were saving
• 8:22
  Amy James: towards? Or if we weren't saving sometimes at any point,
• 8:24
  Amy James: it was just we were just building up a bit
• 8:25
  Amy James: of a... What's the word? A comfort blanket.
• 8:28
  Kia Commodore: Yes, yes. Like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund
• 8:31
  Kia Commodore: that you can fall back on.
• 8:32
  Amy James: A rainy day fund, exactly.
• 8:32
  Kia Commodore: Amazing.
• 8:32
  Amy James: We both love our travel, so it would always be, "
• 8:34
  Amy James: Okay, if we save that, then maybe actually now it's
• 8:37
  Amy James: nice things that we can save for. We can save
• 8:40
  Amy James: for nice holidays and go on nicer trips."
• 8:42
  Kia Commodore: That's really nice. I think it's so great to see
• 8:44
  Kia Commodore: that. You mentioned there that you guys have got an amazing child, a three- year- old.
• 8:48
  Amy James: We do, yeah.
• 8:48
  Kia Commodore: Amazing. So, how did things change for you as a
• 8:51
  Kia Commodore: couple when you had your child? Because obviously that is massive
• 8:55
  Kia Commodore: change, and did you have to review, who paid for
• 9:00
  Kia Commodore: what, and what expenses were paid out of where?
• 9:03
  Amy James: Yeah. I guess for us, because we had come together
• 9:06
  Amy James: so jointly in our finances, we didn't have to change
• 9:09
  Amy James: an awful lot when I got pregnant and when we
• 9:11
  Amy James: had her. Actually, childcare just became another expense that had
• 9:15
  Amy James: to come out, and obviously, we have to have that
• 9:17
  Amy James: conversation and review. We've got new outgoings and what does
• 9:21
  Amy James: that look like? But it was nice to have that
• 9:24
  Amy James: comfort that it wasn't me looking at it in terms of, "
• 9:27
  Amy James: Okay, well, if I want to reduce my hours, what
• 9:29
  Amy James: does that mean? And can I still afford to contribute
• 9:32
  Amy James: my half of things?" Because actually it was recognized that
• 9:34
  Amy James: it's just what do we have as a total sum,
• 9:37
  Amy James: how much of that is now going towards looking after
• 9:39
  Amy James: this little person, whether that's childcare or just new bills
• 9:42
  Amy James: and new groceries that need purchased. But in that way,
• 9:45
  Amy James: it was kind of nice. It just became very casual
• 9:48
  Amy James: and didn't feel stressful.
• 9:50
  Kia Commodore: Well, I think that's nice. Like I said, you got over the harder part initially, which
• 9:53
  Kia Commodore: is you tackling that debt, so then everything else almost
• 9:55
  Kia Commodore: feels more seamless because money isn't taboo anymore. We can
• 9:58
  Kia Commodore: talk about it. We can figure out our rhythm. So, I
• 10:01
  Kia Commodore: think that's great. That's amazing. Amy, it was great hearing how you
• 10:05
  Kia Commodore: guys manage your finances as even a couple, and I
• 10:07
  Kia Commodore: think it's also good to highlight just in general, anyone
• 10:10
  Kia Commodore: who isn't a couple and thinking about different ways that
• 10:12
  Kia Commodore: they can manage their finances, keeping separate accounts is another
• 10:15
  Kia Commodore: way that you can do it. So, people have their
• 10:16
  Kia Commodore: joint accounts, but you might have your separate accounts that
• 10:18
  Kia Commodore: you put money into for different spending. Like you mentioned,
• 10:24
  Kia Commodore: sharing things in the joint account is all very useful.
• 10:26
  Kia Commodore: Household bills in there, things that you share, joint accounts.
• 10:29
  Kia Commodore: Also, dividing up what's mine, what's yours, and what's ours?
• 10:33
  Kia Commodore: Keeping that separate and having the main earner pay their
• 10:37
  Kia Commodore: partner and allowance. Another interesting way to do it, but
• 10:40
  Kia Commodore: it works for some couples. So, there are some general
• 10:42
  Kia Commodore: tips that you can do when it comes to managing
• 10:44
  Kia Commodore: your finances as a couple. But what I do want to kind
• 10:47
  Kia Commodore: of caveat here is to be wary of joint finances.
• 10:50
  Kia Commodore: If one of you has a poor credit history, because
• 10:52
  Kia Commodore: if you open up a joint bank account or take
• 10:55
  Kia Commodore: out a mortgage together, your credit rating could be affected
• 10:58
  Kia Commodore: as you'll be co- scored if you apply for credit,
• 11:01
  Kia Commodore: so it's a good idea for both of you to
• 11:03
  Kia Commodore: check your credit before combining your finances. Amy, I'm going
• 11:08
  Kia Commodore: to ask you the question that I ask all of
• 11:09
  Kia Commodore: our guests at the end of our episode. What are
• 11:11
  Kia Commodore: your three top tips for our listeners to help them
• 11:14
  Kia Commodore: get a little bit richer?
• 11:15
  Amy James: I think my first is there is no one- size- fits-
• 11:18
  Amy James: all. I started by telling you that I think we
• 11:20
  Amy James: have hit every single one of the ways of sharing
• 11:22
  Amy James: finances through our relationship, so we didn't jump straight into
• 11:26
  Amy James: sharing finances on our third date. We built to that,
• 11:28
  Amy James: and that has absolutely served us right, but I've got
• 11:31
  Amy James: plenty of friends that also have wonderful marriages and partnerships
• 11:35
  Amy James: but don't share their finances and still have those open
• 11:37
  Amy James: conversations, which is my second point. I think having open
• 11:41
  Amy James: conversations, really transparent ones, both with yourselves but also with
• 11:45
  Amy James: friends because I think money is really taboo and it
• 11:47
  Amy James: shouldn't be. Why can't we talk about how much somebody
• 11:50
  Amy James: else spends on something? Because actually, it might put in perspective, "
• 11:53
  Amy James: You're spending what on those bills? Look at this one.
• 11:56
  Amy James: You can save a little bit over here." And actually,
• 11:57
  Amy James: that really helps and it helps you as a couple
• 12:00
  Amy James: as well. My third, I think it's having a shared goal
• 12:04
  Amy James: because that helps that foundation of shared respect for each
• 12:07
  Amy James: other's finances. It's unlikely at any point in time, you're
• 12:09
  Amy James: both going to match in your finances. One of you
• 12:11
  Amy James: is going to earn a little more. One of you is going
• 12:12
  Amy James: to earn a little less. One of you might come
• 12:14
  Amy James: into a bit of money. And I think having that
• 12:17
  Amy James: respect for the fact that you're both working towards a
• 12:19
  Amy James: shared goal at any point in time helps if there
• 12:22
  Amy James: are challenges where somebody's going, " Do you know what? Actually, that budget feels
• 12:26
  Amy James: really tight and I don't enjoy it. Now, I am
• 12:28
  Amy James: feeling restricted in my spending, and that's encroaching on the
• 12:31
  Amy James: life that I want." Actually, having that conversation to say, "
• 12:33
  Amy James: All right. Well, that's fine. Let's rein that back a
• 12:36
  Amy James: little bit." So, I think at every point, if you
• 12:39
  Amy James: have something that you're working jointly towards, that really helps
• 12:43
  Amy James: cement any of the other two points where you're having
• 12:45
  Amy James: those conversations and being open and honest with each other.
• 12:47
  Kia Commodore: Those are amazing, especially the tip about the shared goal.
• 12:50
  Kia Commodore: I love that. I think when it comes to any
• 12:52
  Kia Commodore: kind of saving as a couple but even as individuals,
• 12:54
  Kia Commodore: having a goal in mind will keep you on track,
• 12:57
  Kia Commodore: and it's even better if you have the same vision.
• 12:59
  Amy James: Exactly.
• 12:59
  Kia Commodore: Thank you so much, Amy. You've shared some incredible gems
• 13:02
  Kia Commodore: on this podcast. Next time, I'm learning more about side
• 13:05
  Kia Commodore: hustles. A second job can be a great way to
• 13:07
  Kia Commodore: bring some extra money in, but do you need to
• 13:10
  Kia Commodore: pay tax on that money? What other costs are involved?
• 13:13
  Kia Commodore: And will you still get time to actually have a
• 13:16
  Kia Commodore: break from work? I'm getting into all of this and
• 13:18
  Kia Commodore: more on A Little Bit Richer, but while you wait,
• 13:21
  Kia Commodore: hit follow, leave a review, and tell a mate. These
• 13:24
  Kia Commodore: are all the things that help get the pod up the chart
• 13:26
  Kia Commodore: and helping other people too. Bye.