Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / The Controversial and Misunderstood Journey of NFL Legend Ricky Williams

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The Controversial and Misunderstood Journey of NFL Legend Ricky Williams · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: I remember being in a small town in Italy, struggling
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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome back to Misunderstood, guys.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I have a truly special guest on today's podcast. Football
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: icon and cannabis entrepreneur and also astrologer, we have Ricky Williams.
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  Speaker 1: Ricky rose to prominence during his college years at the
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  Speaker 1: University of Texas, where he won the Heisman Trophy and
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  Speaker 1: went on to become one of the most electrifying running
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  Speaker 1: backs in NFL history. You guys got to look up
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  Speaker 1: his old footage if you haven't seen it in a while.
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  Speaker 1: It's really outstanding. Throughout his professional football career, Ricky was
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  Speaker 1: incredibly successful on the field. However, he also made plenty
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  Speaker 1: of headlines for his off-the-field usage of cannabis and numerous
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  Speaker 1: failed drug tests. In 2012, Ricky made the controversial decision
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  Speaker 1: to retire from football. People did not understand it. Rumors
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  Speaker 1: swirled that he threw away his career because he was
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  Speaker 1: an addict. No one could like fathom why he could
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  Speaker 1: just walk away from the NFL and they assumed he
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  Speaker 1: was choosing drugs over a career. In the end, Ricky
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  Speaker 1: says he was choosing to be his authentic self and
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  Speaker 1: happiness and that no longer included professional football. To me,
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  Speaker 1: that was a really interesting question why I wanted to
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  Speaker 1: have him on the show. Like who's to say when
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  Speaker 1: somebody should retire? Is it after they've played many years
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  Speaker 1: and they are at the age to retire? Is it
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  Speaker 1: after they get hurt? Or is it when you finally
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  Speaker 1: realize what your happiness entails and maybe you just happen
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  Speaker 1: to be really good at something? Also, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: thought it was an interesting conversation to have, you know,
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  Speaker 1: was this guy an addict and choosing his drugs over,
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  Speaker 1: you know, anything else in his life? Or was he
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  Speaker 1: the enlightened one? And we all had a, you know,
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  Speaker 1: a false sense of priorities.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So in the end, his decision, it led him down
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  Speaker 1: a new path to becoming an entrepreneur in the world
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  Speaker 1: of cannabis and healing and astrology. So he's quite a
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  Speaker 1: fascinating guy. And it was obvious that the press created
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  Speaker 1: a narrative of who he was. And I love that
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  Speaker 1: we get a chance to talk to him and hear
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  Speaker 1: who he really is in his own words. So if
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  Speaker 1: you think you already know Ricky Williams... This episode is
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  Speaker 1: going to be a surprise. And if you aren't familiar
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  Speaker 1: with him, I think you're going to be enthralled by
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  Speaker 1: his passion and honesty. So please sit back and listen
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  Speaker 1: to my conversation with Ricky Williams. If you like it,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: if you don't like it, please leave comments, subscribe. I
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: always love to hear from our listeners to know how
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: they're reacting to the guests we have on and to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the topics. We have so many different topics every time
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: we have a show. If you're new to our show,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: we come out every Monday and Thursday evenings. If you
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: ever have a suggestion for a guest, you can email us.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: You could DM me. There's plenty of ways to get
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: ahold of us. So I want to hear from you,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm really excited for you to listen to my
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  Speaker 1: next guest, Ricky Williams. Ricky, it is such an honor
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  Speaker 1: to have you here today. How are you?
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  Speaker 3: I am great.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. Good.
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  Speaker 1: Where are you?
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  Speaker 2: I am in a town called Grass Valley. And it's
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  Speaker 2: funny when I say that and people know who I am,
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  Speaker 2: there's always a chuckle. So I live in a town
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  Speaker 2: called Grass Valley. It is halfway between Sacramento and Tahoe
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  Speaker 2: in Northern California.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. How did you find that location?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, wonderful, wonderful question. So I'll give you the short
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  Speaker 2: version of the story. So I was traveling around the
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  Speaker 2: world and some guy gave me a book on something
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  Speaker 2: called Ayurveda. I had never heard of Ayurveda, but it
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  Speaker 2: was an interesting book and I was fascinated by it.
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  Speaker 2: And when I came back to the States, I was
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  Speaker 2: in a situation where I was trying to figure out
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  Speaker 2: what am I going to do with my life? And
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: I kept thinking about that book. And so I looked
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  Speaker 2: online to see if there was any places in the U.S.
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  Speaker 2: where I could study Ayurveda. And there was a school
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  Speaker 2: in Grass Valley, California.
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  Speaker 3: And so it brought me up here. I enrolled in
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  Speaker 3: school and started my education.
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  Speaker 2: And when I left, I always told myself, one day
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to come back to this place. It's a
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  Speaker 2: really special place. And about a year ago, I finally
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  Speaker 2: made it back.
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  Speaker 1: Amazing. I love that story. So, Ricky, the reason why
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to have you on, you are like the
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  Speaker 1: quintessential type of person that I started this podcast for.
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  Speaker 1: You know, as I was mentioning to you before we started,
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  Speaker 1: the name is Misunderstood. And it's about people who have
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: been reduced to a single headline and have felt like
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  Speaker 1: they are on a mission to change their narrative for
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  Speaker 1: themselves or for the masses that have kind of misunderstood
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  Speaker 1: who they were. And I think, you know, it's really
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  Speaker 1: interesting when I mentioned your name to all the different
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: people in the last couple of days before I had
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you on saying, Hey, do you know this name? Do
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  Speaker 1: you remember this name? First of all, a hundred percent
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  Speaker 1: of people knew your name, good name recognition, but The
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: question that came up, you know, what everyone kind of
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  Speaker 1: said was, oh, yeah, that's the guy that chose drugs,
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  Speaker 1: chose weed, chose pot, chose marijuana over football and over
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  Speaker 1: a career. And I think that the greatest question there
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  Speaker 1: kind of became and then all these people would start
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  Speaker 1: to chime in and talk. no, that's not what happened. And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, everyone had an opinion. And I think the
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  Speaker 1: big question is, you know, was it that you were
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  Speaker 1: consumed with an addiction and you chose that addiction over
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  Speaker 1: something that would give you stability? Or are you the
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  Speaker 1: enlightened one? And we have a messed up sense of
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  Speaker 1: value and worth and following your purpose. And how, you know,
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  Speaker 1: how important is it to follow your purpose? So I
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  Speaker 1: think that was why I was like, this is the
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  Speaker 1: guy for my show.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
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  Speaker 3: You just said a whole lot. You just said a
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  Speaker 3: whole lot. It was wonderful.
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  Speaker 2: It was wonderful. I mean, you just have so many
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  Speaker 2: places to go with that. You know, I want to
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  Speaker 2: start with this idea of changing the narratives. And I'm
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  Speaker 2: not sure if this is what you meant, but what
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  Speaker 2: I've noticed with a lot of people is they're trying
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  Speaker 2: to change the external narrative, meaning trying to change what
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  Speaker 2: other people think about them. Mm-hmm. But to me, the
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  Speaker 2: way I look at it, if you're truly being yourself,
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  Speaker 2: just the nature of truly being yourself, because we are
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  Speaker 2: all so unique, if you're truly being yourself, at least
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  Speaker 2: in the very beginning, you're going to be misunderstood. So
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: if we're trying to change the narrative to make other
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  Speaker 2: people understand us, then typically that takes us out of
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  Speaker 2: being our authentic selves. So for me, the idea of
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  Speaker 2: changing the narrative is changing the narrative that maybe the
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  Speaker 2: purpose of life is to be misunderstood.
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  Speaker 3: Because initially, right, initially.
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  Speaker 2: So it's like you meet someone and you kind of
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  Speaker 2: have a sense of who they are. You misunderstand them
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  Speaker 2: and then you spend more time with them and you
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  Speaker 2: learn to appreciate who they really are over time. Right. Right.
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  Speaker 1: And that misunderstanding, yeah, it is. And that misunderstanding can
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  Speaker 1: be because of your own experiences or things that are triggered,
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  Speaker 1: but it always comes from your experience of them. And
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  Speaker 1: that misunderstanding is on you, really, don't you think?
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  Speaker 2: 100%.
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  Speaker 3: That's the conclusion that I got to.
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  Speaker 2: And when all this happened with me and I got
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  Speaker 2: this reputation, I realized that people who are talking about me,
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  Speaker 2: they were talking about their own experiences and what I
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  Speaker 2: did brought up for them. Right. And that's when I
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  Speaker 2: started to really embrace faith because I realized it's an
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to bring stuff up for people. And instead of
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  Speaker 2: running away from it, I started to run towards it
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  Speaker 2: because it might not be comfortable to bring the stuff
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  Speaker 2: up for people. But once the stuff comes up, people
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  Speaker 2: have to deal with it. And usually we're better off
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  Speaker 2: dealing with the stuff that comes up.
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  Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I think so many people showed
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  Speaker 1: up in that moment of hearing, you know, oh, he's
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  Speaker 1: not coming back. He's retiring. He's choosing to go down
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  Speaker 1: that path. He continually keeps failing tests on purpose. And
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  Speaker 1: that would show up for them as like, why would
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  Speaker 1: he ever retire? What doesn't he want fame? Doesn't he
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  Speaker 1: want money? Doesn't he want security? And that is based
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  Speaker 1: on their sense of what importance is in their life.
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  Speaker 1: So I want to kind of go back to your
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  Speaker 1: childhood a little bit, if you would, and talk about
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  Speaker 1: what you wanted and how, how you realized you were
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  Speaker 1: good at football. Like, tell me a little bit about
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  Speaker 1: you as a kid. What, what did you do? What
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  Speaker 1: did you like? What did you want to be?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I, I grew up in a very religious family,
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  Speaker 2: very religious family. And so my early role models were
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  Speaker 2: people in the Bible. And so I wanted to be
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  Speaker 2: like Jesus, you know, at least in the sense of
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  Speaker 2: like being. kind and touching people and making people believe
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  Speaker 2: and just being a good person. And as I started
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  Speaker 2: to grow up in the world, you know, it made
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  Speaker 2: sense to me that the way to be able to
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  Speaker 2: do that was through being famous.
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  Speaker 3: Because, right, that's kind of Jesus is famous, right? We're
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  Speaker 3: still talking about him.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. In my early environment, the greatest resources or access
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  Speaker 2: I had to fame was my athletic ability. I say
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  Speaker 2: fame like being an adult, but even I remember in
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  Speaker 2: first grade, second.
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  Speaker 3: Grade, third grade, all the grades, I was always the
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  Speaker 3: fastest kid.
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  Speaker 2: In that grade. Even from a very young age, my
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  Speaker 2: fame came from my athletic ability. It just stuck. I
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  Speaker 2: finally got to the NFL and And I thought to
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  Speaker 2: my mind, I finally made it. I'm going to be
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: able to make a difference. And I started talking to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: people about the way that I saw the world. And
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: kind of the message was like, you're weird. Shut up
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and play football. In my naivete, I thought that once
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  Speaker 2: I made it, people would listen to me. But it
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  Speaker 2: was kind of the opposite. It was more like people
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  Speaker 2: put me in a box. And when people saw me,
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  Speaker 2: they didn't see me as a human being. They saw me.
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  Speaker 2: a professional football player. That was the opposite of what
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  Speaker 2: I was looking for.
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  Speaker 1: And that's really interesting though, because so when you were
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  Speaker 1: a kid, did you want to be a football player
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  Speaker 1: or you just happened to be fast and you just
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  Speaker 1: happened to be good at it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So I, at first I thought it would be.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer, the drawer, just.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: The one square before bed or two. You know, nobody's watching.
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  Speaker 2: To be a baseball player, you know, that was my
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  Speaker 2: first love. But as time evolved, I was better at football.
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  Speaker 2: And so it just led in that direction. And it's
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  Speaker 2: this idea of I just was I love I won't
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  Speaker 2: even say I love to compete because I'm not sure
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  Speaker 2: that's true.
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  Speaker 3: But I love to improve and I love to get better.
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  Speaker 2: And having a challenge or a test is a really
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: wonderful way to get better at something. And so what
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  Speaker 2: the internal personal fulfillment that I was receiving from being
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: a football player was just was really the process of
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: getting better. The side effect, I say that with a smile,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: was the fame. Because when you're really good at something,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: then people want to praise you for it. And what
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: came along with the fame, that's not really what I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: was looking for. Because I felt like it made me
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: less human, not more human. At least for me, I
• 13:02
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• 13:04
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• 13:08
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  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And I found that that's really hard for famous people,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: athletes in particular, because people put them on a pedestal.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: They assume something about them when these people have faults
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and they know their own faults. So it's hard for
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: them to feel like they're living up to that. And
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: it almost makes them want to retreat into themselves more
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: because they don't want to disappoint someone or not, not
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: be who that person thinks they are. And I think
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: that can cause all sorts of internal conflicts. And it also,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: you know, when people find out This hero is also
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: takes out the trash and also gets into, you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: arguments and isn't the most present parent or whatever, you know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: was going through a divorce, whatever it is. It makes
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: that person real. And sometimes that like burst the bubble
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: of how these people think you are.
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the fear. But in my experience,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: like it kind of but but bursting that bubble is
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a good thing because it's not real.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And I'd rather someone have a real experience of who
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I am than a perceived, you know, airbrushed image of
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: who I am. Because, you know, you talk about the
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: inner turmoil. That was my inner turmoil. I was stuck
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and I had to choose between one or the other.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I either have to go all in to caring what
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: they think or I have to go all in to
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: caring what I think about myself. Right.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: And fortunately, I went all in to caring what I
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: think about myself.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Right. I just want to talk a little bit more
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: about your childhood for a second, because when you're somebody
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: who has become very enlightened and talks about, you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: really understanding self and a lot of, you know, when
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: people do work with therapists, with whatever their personal growth is.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: people are brought back to their childhood to talk about
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: what happened there and if it affected them. So I
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: just think it's important to talk about it for a second.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You had a very strong-willed mother, I know. You had
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a father that.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Can I add one thing to that? Sure. So from
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: my perspective and my day job is I'm a professional astrologer.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm not a therapist, but the work, if you
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: sat in a session, you might think that it was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: a therapy session. because when you look at someone's astrological chart, you're,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: you're looking at their inner life, you know, and when
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: we know someone and depending how deeply we know them, right,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: we know more of who they are on the inside.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: And, and we can see through the outside.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: But when you have a chart is that you, if
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: you don't have to look at it, you can see
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: right through the inside of who someone is. And the
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: interesting thing about a birth chart and right, it's a,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: It's where the stars and the planets were aligned at
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the moment of our birth. And so we're born with it,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you know? So I say this because what happens in
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: our childhood, in a sense, happens to our birth chart
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: or happens on top of our birth chart. So there
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: are already inborn tendencies that are there that are experiencing
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the effect of our childhood. I'll give you an example, okay?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: My mom is an Aries, okay? And she has a
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: client of Mars, like, really strong in her chart. So
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: she's a warrior, you know? She wanted to go to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: the military, but her mom said she wasn't allowed, okay?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: And so you can imagine certain kids, you know, who
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: are more sensitive, okay, raised by a parent like that,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: probably a nightmare, okay? right? You imagine the opposite, a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: really tough kid, you know, raised by a really sweet
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and overly sensitive parent, right? It probably not going to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: go well. So, so much of it is really about
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the match. So it is what happens to us as
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: our childhood, but it's important to remember that it's happening
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: to a set of inborn tendencies. So, so yes, I
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: was raised by a really tough mother, you know, and And,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was young and I was mad
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: at her, I'd say she beat my ass, you know?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And as I became, like you said, more enlightened, I'd say,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: thank God she beat my ass. But it's like somehow
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the universe knew that I needed to be prepared to
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: take an ass whooping, you know? And it made me
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: a really good running back. So, you know, the two
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: main influences, the three main influences in my early life,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: one was what I mentioned already was Very religious family. Two,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: with a really tough mom, you know, who didn't take
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: any shit. But at the same time, the positive side
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is she really pushed me. She inspired me. You know,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the message she sent to me, there's nothing that I
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: can't accomplish if I'm willing to put the work in.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Another valuable message she shared with me is if you
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: do the crime, you know, don't cry about doing the time.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Very valuable lesson, especially to anyone who wants to be themselves.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to tolerate some difficulty, some discomfort.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: It's worth it, but you have to be able to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: tolerate it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: And I think the third influence was my twin sister.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And there's just something about having someone in your life
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that you know, that truly knows you and always has
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: your back.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about her because I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: don't hear you talk that much about her. And it
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: is pretty amazing that you have a twin. I was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: going to ask what your relationship is and if that
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: relationship is still strong to this day.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: It is. It's interesting. I think this happens with twins
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: in general, but I think it happens probably more when
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: one twin is a male and one is a female
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: is that. Because from an astrological perspective, it's a fascinating
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: study because we have the same chart.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: She was born a minute.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Before I was. So we have the same chart, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: if you look at our lives, very, very different. My sister,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she won't mind me sharing this, but she
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: was a virgin, and so she got married at age 29.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I think I already had three kids at age 29. So....
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: A little bit different.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. But, you know, very different from the outside. But
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: if you understand, like, on the inside who we are,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: very similar. So in that way, it's beautiful because on
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: the outside, we're so different. But when we talk to
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: each other, we're saying the same things just from different perspectives. So...
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: it's always been great to have someone who has a
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: different perspective, but at the same time, the same perspective.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: And also because she's a woman too, it's also more
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of the feminine side of things. And I think growing
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: up in a household of women, I just was always
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: sensitive to how women feel and how sometimes if we're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: not aware being a guy that we just do things naturally,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: they probably don't feel good to me. Yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: So it's helped me become aware of little things like that.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I want to just quickly touch on your relationship with
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: your father because you are a father. I want to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: talk about how that influenced or didn't influence who you
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: became as a man. I know your parents separated, divorced
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: when you were young. They were very young, obviously, and
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: figuring out their own lives. And I know your dad
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: ran into some issues of his own and issues within
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: your family. Can you talk a little bit about that?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, my parents, I guess it was
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: kind of normal back then, but my parents married. My
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: dad was 19, my mom was 20. And I think
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: within a couple of months of marriage, my mom was
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: pregnant with twins.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Wait, can I just ask, did twins run in the family? Like,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: how did... Itching, burning, soreness.
• 22:40
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• 22:43
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• 22:47
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• 22:57
  Speaker 1: That even happen?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know. We're Gemini.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We're both Gemini.
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: So my mom has twins.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Has twins. Very young. And like I said, you know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: my mom should have gone to the military, but her
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: mom convinced her to become a domestic person.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. So I was like, I wish you
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: would have gone to the military. So so and my dad,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you know, he was molested as a kid. So he
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: had his stuff, you know, and he had young kids
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and he was so young trying to work things out.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, he probably went too far. And,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting for me. I was the one
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: that that ratted him out, you know. But for me,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I wasn't even like, I was telling on him. I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: just thought it was fascinating because I was a curious
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: kid and, you know, he showed us his penis and.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Kind of how it worked. So I told my mom
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: and of course my mom freaked out.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Right. And, you know, and said he needs to get help.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: But again, we were a very religious family and in
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: our religion, we didn't get divorced. So my parents worked
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: really hard. Oh, I'm not sure that was a good idea,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: but they worked really hard to try to make it work.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: And then another instance, my dad asked me to take
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: pictures of him um, naked for a play girl or something.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And I told my mom and she found the pictures,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the Polaroids in the trash. And then we came home
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: from school and all my dad's stuff was gone. Um,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: and so we didn't, we didn't see him for, for
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: a long time. And there was so much animosity between
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: my parents. Uh, and my mom did her stuff too, but,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: you know, but there's so many, these young people, right.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And I, it took me until I was young and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: in those situations to realize that Oh man, right. You
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: do something adult, like get married, but you're still a child.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: You're going to, you're going to, you're not going to
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: get it right.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just part of the process. So, so my,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: and my parents couldn't get along.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So my dad, you know, after the age of seven,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, really wasn't a part of
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: my life at all.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: You know, my mom, she was meant to be a
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: dad anyway. So she, she was fine.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: You know, she did a really good, she did a
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: really good job as a father.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Um, And so is okay. And then you asked about
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: how it's influenced me as a parent. Yeah. At first
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: for a while, I thought it did it because my
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: memory as a kid was my dad wasn't around. So
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I don't tend to think of dad. I just think
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: about not being around. And I was so busy doing
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: stuff that it wasn't like I missed him, you know? So,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: and so I was, I have a two and a
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: half year old. I have six kids, but I have
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the youngest one is two and a half. And, uh,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: hanging around and seeing how much of an effect I
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: have on him. And I can tell the effect I
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: have on him now is going to stick with him
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: for his whole life. And my dad was 100% around
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: when I was this age. And so it kind of
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: hit me that my dad and who he is has
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: probably had more of an impact on who I am
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: than I realized. And because I wasn't around him a lot,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I don't really have that mirror to be able to
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: appreciate me. So it's really helped me try to understand
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: my dad more and understand those parts of him that
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: are showing up in me. And one of the, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: my dad was, he's a preacher, you know, and he
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: played the organ in the church. And so he's got like,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: he's a man of really strong faith and conviction, you know? And,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: you know, the way that I... The way that I
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: think about the world, and I consider myself very much
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a spiritual person. But, you know, to get here, I've
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: had to take some risks and really put myself out
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: there and have a lot of faith. And I got
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: that from my father. For him, it showed up in
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: one way. For me, it showed up in a different way.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: But easy for me to recognize that I definitely got
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: that from him. Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And just to end on that subject, are you still,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: are your parents still alive? Are you still close? I mean,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: are you, have you worked it out with your dad?
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Do you talk to him? Are you close with your mother?
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm close to my mom.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't have much to work out with
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: my dad, you know, because I feel like when he
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: left so young, like we don't, we didn't have issues
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: with each other. Yeah. But I realized as an adult,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: you know, as I tried to reconnect with them, I
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: just realized that, you know, he's just different than we're
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: just different. And I can appreciate certain parts of them, but,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm good. Like, I love them and I
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: always wish them the best, but we're not, we don't
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: talk a lot. We're not very close. Right. The stuff
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: that I had to work out was with my mom.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Because like I said, you know, the first version was
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: she beat my ass. Second version, thank God she beat
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: my ass. Like that required us to have some really
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: difficult conversations. And I'm so proud of my mom for
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: being able to like hang in there. For so many parents,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: you know, it's easy for them to forget or, you know,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: not want to think about it. But for my mom
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: to actually, like, for us to have that face-to-face talk
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: where I said sometimes I thought you were a monster
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and for her to be able to sit with that
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and feel that and not hang up on me or
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: be defensive, but to really try to appreciate my perspective.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: And I told her, I said, I'm not saying you were.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I'm saying from a little kid's perspective, you know, that's
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: what it seemed like. And so I felt because my
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: mom and I have been able to have these kinds
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: of conversations that we're extremely close. I mean, it's like,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: it's like any relationship, you know, when someone has seen
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: you at your worst and they still love you. Oh, that's,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: that's the best.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: That is the best. And very rare, by the way,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to have that unconditional love.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So I want to sort of talk about the point
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: in time where it was like the, what happened, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: wherever a lot of people's minds are kind of stuck with,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and what happened, which is, you know, obviously, well,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: first you are so good that you win the Heisman trophy.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I actually, I just want to stop there for a second.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you? Was that like the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: best moment of your life or were you like, whatever?
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it was both. It was both, you know?
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Cause the, the best moment is something that I dreamed
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: of something that I, that I, that I asked the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: universe for that I, that everyone said was impossible. Like,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: It's not. It's here. Right.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: But but there's also kind of a letdown, like, OK, now.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Now what?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say now what?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And now what was there? But I think I wasn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: aware to ask until much later, until a few years later.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So I just kind of let the momentum of winning
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the Heisman kind of push me forward. Yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: But did you like the credibility that it gave you?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Like that everyone understood your talent and that looked up
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to you or did that not, you know, sometimes that's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: what people are looking for. Cause it fills whatever hole
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: that they need filled to, to be told that they're
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that good or that didn't matter. It was just like
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a thing on a chart you needed to check off.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Well, again, it's a little bit of both is I
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: thought they were wanting the same, but I realized that,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: When you see someone being successful externally, you don't necessarily
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: see the internal qualities that led to them being successful.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And I think the assumption, especially for African-Americans, is that
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: we are born athletically inclined. And so the compliment is
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: I made the most of my talent. Even the critique
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: when I walked away from the NFL was that I
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: wasted my talent. Like people know what my true talent are. Well,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: one of the ways it manifested was through expertise in football.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: But to me, like I said earlier, I think my
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: greatest talent is my tenacity. If there's a problem to
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: solve or the linebacker or anything, right. I'm putting everything
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I am to solving that problem. I can't, I can't,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I can't help it. And that's what made me successful
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: at football.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And I, And if you.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Look at it, like for me, I started to do
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the math and I said, if that's how I define
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: my life, the end result is that my body is
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: beat up. And I'm like, ah, there's, you know, this
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: inner talent that I have, there must be a way
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to express it in a way. One, that's more than
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: just entertaining people, but two, that's not so destructive to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: my body.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was going to ask, so how much pain
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: were you in mentally and physically at kind of like
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the height right before everything kind of fell, fell apart?
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: So that's a difficult question to ask because the nature
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: of football players, especially the ones that played the way
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: that I played, our pain tolerance is so far off
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: the charts. It's hard to answer that. It's hard to
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: answer that question. So I can say a whole lot
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: of pain, but at the same time, I can say
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have had it any
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: other way. Right. Right.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: But I guess like I'm curious in your mental state, too,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: where you like showing up for work every day, where
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you like, oh, I'm so excited to do this. You
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: were like, I hate being here. I've heard you talk
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: before about how if you were coaching a team right now,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: college kids or whatever, you'd be like, if anyone wants
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: to get up and leave because they do not want
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to be here anymore. get up and leave and I will,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I will continue to give you this scholarship,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: but like own your, your truth. And I think that's
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: so powerful.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's okay. So, you know, great question. So you
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: got it right too. So, you know, the way I've
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: been thinking about this lately is people talk about anxiety
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a lot, and I've had a lot of anxiety in
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: my life or just, just mental health issues. And to me,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the way I simplify the whole idea of mental health
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: issues is is that there's some kind of conflict between
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: our inner selves and our outer selves. So my outer
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: self had invested so much time and energy into being
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: the best football player that, of course, I wanted to
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: be there. I was living a dream. My inner self
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: was like, get me the hell out of here. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: for most of my career, I was able to keep
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: that voice down. And then I started smoking. I started
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: consuming cannabis and I couldn't keep that voice down anymore.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And that voice got louder and louder and I couldn't
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: keep it down. So the inner part of me finally
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: got to speak. And it led to me traveling around
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the world and finding, you know, finding myself.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And OK, so I want to ask you about that.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: But before that, itching.
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: Burning, soreness.
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: When you know it's thrush, you want it gone. Treat
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: the cause, not just the symptoms with Caniston Combate. I
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: just want to say, I feel like there's so many
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: people that probably have been through that moment in time.
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: But what prevents them from listening to these whispers that
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: turn into a loud voice, especially when you're smoking and
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: doing all the psychedelic stuff and bringing.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: It up, They're scared of like the logistics of leaving.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: They're getting money that they would never get. They don't
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: know what else they're good at. I mean, the fear
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: of letting go of that must overtake most people. I mean,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: it must be so hard to walk away.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, those are the outer voices. There's an
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: old Indian tale.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But that's what we're taught from when we're little. You
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: have to have money. You have to have some sort
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of purpose. And people don't necessarily look inward for a purpose.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: They look outward.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like I said, I think we have two. We
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: have an inner self and an outer self.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And so much of our attention is drawn to the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: outer self that it becomes hypertonic. It becomes too strong
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: in the inner self. becomes hypotonic, it becomes too weak.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And that's why we have all these mental health issues.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And so for me, my solution was realizing how out
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: of balance I was. I started to devote more energy
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: into my inner self. And again, it was difficult, but
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: it was worth it. It was worth it. Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: OK, so when you first start to go on this journey,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: explain your sabbatical that you took. I think it was
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: in 2004, correct?
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: It was 2004. OK. Yeah.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: What was it? First of all, explain what that was
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: like to finally free yourself from having to be somewhere
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: every day and you could just disappear.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't even because it was the end
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: of the offseason. So I was kind of spoiled of
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: being able to do whatever I wanted to do. You know,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: it is common practice. you know, like Monday mornings. Okay.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: But this is a big Monday morning.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So, so it was, it was approaching and I, and
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I just, I was really good friends with Lenny Kravitz
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: personal assistant and that spring he was, he was touring
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: in Europe. And so I went over for like 10
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: days to hang out. And it was so like liberating
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to be in another country where no one knew who
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I was and I could just explore and be myself,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: you know? And then the contrast of going back into
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the football world where I was put into a box
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: and all the physical stuff. It just got to the
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: point where I was like, I can't do it. Again,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: the inner voice was like the way that I was feeling,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: traveling and doing all those things. I felt so much joy.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I don't have to. It kind of hit me.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I don't have to go back.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Because I think I had been telling, there was a
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: voice telling me that I had to go back. And
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: then there was a voice that said, you don't have
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: to go back. You know, and I heard it. And
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: it got me kind of excited and started fantasizing about,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I'm free. You know, I have enough money that I
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: could do whatever I want.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Why am I going, why am I going back?
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: But I think it's so interesting that you're talking about
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: listening to this inner voice, because again, I think it's
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: so hard for people to trust their inner voice when,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: especially when Someone like you, it's not only just the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: people around you that might be like, dude, go back.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: We want to, you know, live off of you vicariously
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: with all the money you're getting and all the fame.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: But it's like you have the media creating a narrative about,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you know, that you're mentally unstable for making this choice.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: What what did that feel like having all those voices?
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: coming from the other side through the television and the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: news reports that like you were, you know, off doing
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: crazy stuff or you were choosing drugs over something stable.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Did that even affect you or did you not even
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: turn on the TV?
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I definitely didn't turn on the TV. I knew better
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: than that. But I think even if I had, of
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: course it would have affected me. But, you know, again,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: when I started consuming cannabis, maybe two years, about two
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: years before this moment, So I had two years of
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: almost nightly, what I called self-psychotherapy, where I was getting
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: more in touch with who I was on the inside.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And so there started to be this shift where at
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: first I couldn't hear the inside because the outside voices
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: were too loud. Then I created the shift where it
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: was harder to hear the outside voices because the inner
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: voices were so loud. I mean, if that goes too far,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: you know, people end up in a mental institution. But
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I do think we have to find that balance because.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: We do live in two worlds.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: And so once I had that balance, I'll even say,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: you know, not that I could see things, you know,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: cannabis started being basically legal. I couldn't see that, but
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I could have a sense that other people's opinion of
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: what's going on right now doesn't decide how the story is.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: The choices that I make decide how the story ends.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: And so that gave me an inner kind of confidence
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: to just trust the inner voice and keep going. Yeah.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: And I think there is a stigma with, especially back then,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: more so than now, obviously, but you know, that you
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: were choosing a drug, you were an addict, you had
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: a problem as opposed to you were leaving and using
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: that stuff to, you know, heal the a damaged body
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and and feed you know a mind that was searching
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: for something more um and i think that's a really
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: important thing to bring up because there is still a
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: stigma with cannabis and you know people that don't use
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: it really don't know anything about it so um let's
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: talk about that first of all do you think that
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: you were ever an addict.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: At all well again this idea of you know, reframing
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: the story, I understand the history of addict and 12-step,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: but I personally don't have a negative opinion of being
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: an addict. I think a more important question is what
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: are you addicted to?
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Because the nature of the fact that addiction manifests is
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: we all have that urge inside of us. It's just
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: about are we feeding it in a constructive way? Are
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: we feeding it in a destructive way? I could comfortably
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: say I'm addicted to reading. I'm a junkie. If I
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: have nothing to read, I start to get fancy. But
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: the nature of that addiction is it feeds me back
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: something in return. I think being an addict to something
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: that doesn't return anything to you and it just takes
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: from you, I think.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah. I mean, I think most addicts have a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: problem when they're trying, you know, they're triggered by something,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: they're trying to avoid something and they're trying to push
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: feelings down as opposed to use drugs to understand more.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So exactly. And so for me, I can say
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I was addicted to understanding and anything that would provide
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: me like books, right. Anything that would provide me with
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: more understanding, right. I'm going all in for it. All right. Yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: I'll risk the house for it.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Right. So wait, so that's interesting. So at what point
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: then did you realize like getting into cannabis was a
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: business and not just a soul searching thing for you?
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: It took me a while. Took me a long while.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I had a good friend who was a
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: teammate of mine who was really passionate about cannabis advocacy.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: And obviously he knew my story. So we reached out
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and he said, hey, there's a cannabis conference in Arizona.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: This was in 2015. So there's a cannabis conference in Arizona.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Why don't you come tell your story? And at the time,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I was kind of just keeping staying low key.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: And I said, I'm good. You know, I hung up
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: the phone and then I started thinking and I thought first,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, there's cannabis conferences. I was like, wow,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: that's really moving. And then two, I thought, you know what?
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Like everyone knows, like, why am I afraid to tell
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: my story? So I called him back and I said, shoot.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: So it was like, mind-blowing it was at a downtown
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: convention center in phoenix and i was like whoa i
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: was like this is like a real thing and there
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: are a bunch of vendors and so as i walked
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the floor and i saw that wow this really is
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: an industry then my mind started to like move okay
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: and then i i got up on stage and i
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: told my story and it was the first time that
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: i shared openly you know the truth about my cannabis
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: use and it was so cathartic and healing for me
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: to not hide and one of What shocked me was
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: after I was done speaking, at least a dozen people
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: came up to me and told me stories about how
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I got in trouble, that I was their hero, that,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: you know, they're getting a hard time from their coach
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: or their teacher or their parent. And I became like
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: their hero of standing up for their right to consume cannabis.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I didn't know that I
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: was like that. And so it started to make sense
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: of moving into the industry.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: It started to make sense to me at that moment.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: But mainly from the mindset of an entrepreneur is like,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: there's a need, right?
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: There's still this huge stigma.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And I have a real life historical story of someone
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: that stood up for cannabis. And, you know, why not
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: use that story to help move the mission forward? Right.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: And along your path, what are the other things that
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: you got really into that you have, that you got
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: credentials for that you decided to make as part of
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: your lifestyle now?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So a big part of 2004, and we kind
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: of touched on it, was that my body was really
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: beat up. So a big part of my motivation was
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: how do I help my body feel better? It's probably
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: why I was drawn to Ayurveda. But I also became
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: drawn to something called craniosacral therapy. And I received a
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: lot of body work, a lot of acupuncture, a lot
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: of different modalities as a football player. And I became
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: fascinated with the ones that miraculously worked. And so I
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: started studying those. And so I went to massage therapy school,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: got a bunch of credentials in different body work modalities,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: studied energy healing, been studying astrology for about 20 years,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: became a yoga instructor, meditation instructor.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: It was interesting.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: It's like I took all of the things that I
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: learned from being a football player and I started to
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: use those to work on my own growth and development. Hmm.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: It's very like karate kid, you know, when he did
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: wax on wax off and then all of a sudden
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: it comes together later in life. I love that.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: Very much so.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: So like, what's a, what's a day in the life
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: for you now? Like, what are you working on? What,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: where are you headed? Yeah.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So I have two.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: Itching, burning, soreness.
• 44:27
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• 44:30
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• 44:43
  Speaker 6: at bayer.com.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Companies right now that I've co-founded. One is a cannabis
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: lifestyle brand. It's really a spiritual lifestyle brand, but we're
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: getting there.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: Called Heisman. And H-I-G-H-S-M-A-N. And I have my.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: astrological practice probably do 50 i don't like to call
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: them readings i like to call them conversations because i
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: feel like i'm more introducing someone to to their astrology
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and to their art and my my passion project my
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: baby is my wife and i started an astrology app
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: again it's a spiritual tool but we use this we
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: use astrology to to deliver what i like to call
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: timely food for thought We call it Leela. Leela is
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: a Sanskrit word. The divine play.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Beautiful. Okay. So let's talk about astrology for a second
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: because I don't get it. I'm not one of those people.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: So like I'm single. I go on all these dates
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and half the time people are like, what's your sign?
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm always like, what does that even mean? You know,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: but for people that believe in it, it's a thing.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: So I want to talk about astrology for a second.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: And if you could give us a little crash course
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: on what's important to know about it, why someone should
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: get a reading or a conversation, what it can mean
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: for us in pairing ourselves with other people or knowing
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: where we came from, like how do we use it
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: in our lives?
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: So the Quick, easy way, and I'll use things I've
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: already talked about.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: So I've noticed that most, at least in my life,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: most difficult times in my life is when the inner self.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: And the outer self are at odds. I didn't know
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: it in the moment, but looking back, that's what it is.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: And so we get a lot of feedback about our
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: outer selves from everyone around us, but we rarely, we
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: don't have a way to get a lot of feedback
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: about insights. So I think of a chart as like
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: a mirror. But it's a magic mirror because it mirrors
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: back our deepest drives and passions. What really motivates us
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: and drives us internally. Not externally, but internally. And so
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good mirror or map to help
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: us understand ourselves better so that we're more aligned inside
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: and out. And that carries across through what we do
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: for a living, how we get in relationships, because how
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: many people get in jobs that feed them externally but
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: leave them devoid internally? How many people get in relationships
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: that look good on the outside but internally both people
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: are starving to death? So the way that we're oriented
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: in life is we're always focused on the external self
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: and we don't even pay attention or recognize the internal
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: self until we end up in rehab or therapy. So
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: astrology is a way to proactively engage and express who
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: we are on the inside.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: So it's an alignment tool.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: It's so powerful. All right, so the next part, what's
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: important to know specifically about astrology? This is really important, okay?
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Is that astrology is an ancient study. It's not a
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: belief system, but like you said, most people view it
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: as a belief system, okay? But it's a study, like
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: the same way biology is a study of biological systems,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: astrology is an ancient study of the relationship between what's
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: going on up there and what's going on down here.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: So the first astrologers were scribes in Mesopotamia, and they
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: would watch the sky, and they would write down where
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: all the planets were, and then they would write down
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: all the things that were going on in the kingdoms.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: So for over a thousand years, they just took copious
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: notes because they were looking for any kind of patterns
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: that they noticed as above, so below. And this knowledge
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: got passed down and added to and added to, okay?
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: History lesson over, my main point here is astrology is
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: about the study of the planets. And so when people say,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I'm into astrology, what's your sign, right? That's not real astrology.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: That's pop astrology.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: To do real astrology, you have to sit down with
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: someone's birth time and look at what the planets were doing.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Because signs and all that other stuff, these are just
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: tools to measure the influence of the planets. So real
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: astrology is about the planets. It's not so much about
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the signs.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Got it. Okay. And when somebody's having a conversation with
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: you or reading, they would be understanding more about what
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: was happening when they were born. things that they're drawn
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: to that kind of thing.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Uh i'll give you an example okay i'll give you
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: a really good example so like the first point is
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: astrology is about the planets right and it's a symbolic
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: system so what the planets represent are universal drives that
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: we all have A good example in astrology, the moon.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: We consider the moon a planet in astrology. But as
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: a symbol, the moon represents our desire to give and
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: receive nurture. And if you think about it, all of us,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: in order to be alive today, we've had to make
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: some decent response to the urge to receive and give nurture. Otherwise,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't be alive. We've had to feel hunger and
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: somehow find a way to get that hunger met. or
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't be alive.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: So we all have a moon.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Okay. Another way to think of it is the moon
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: in the chart is like the repository of all of
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: our past experiences around being nurtured and giving nurturing. So
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: you think someone grows up, you know, I think I
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: grew up in the woods in Canada somewhere where it
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: gets really cold in the winter and this baby is
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: born in the winter. And so mom's not always there
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: to feed baby because mom is chopping wood or busy. Okay.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: So part of this child's internal pattern around nurturing is
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: that you got to wait, you know, you got to wait.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: And you'll see later in life, you know, here's my joke,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: but it's true. You'll see later in life, you know,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: when they order Uber Eats, okay, not all of the time,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: but more than their friends, right? It gets delayed or
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: the order gets messed up, right? And that this person
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: will tend to lock in some kind of pattern of
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: having to wait in order to be nurtured. Yeah. And
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: when we understand these patterns, oh, wow. Right. Things in
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: our life that maybe we judged is wrong or bad.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: They don't become wrong or bad anymore. They become OK.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: That's it helps people understand their nature. And the more
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: we understand our nature, it's easy to show up and
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: be natural to be ourselves.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Right. OK, that makes sense. So we're talking a lot
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: about now what you've kind of become.
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: And it is interesting to me because, you know, I
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: watched your 30 for 30 special that was done years ago.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Did you ever watch it, by the way?
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It's intense.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: It's intense.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: I did a couple of viewings, so I had to
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: watch it. But yeah, it's intense.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: And what first of all, you know, there was it's
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: very emotional, too. I mean, it's it's it's really well
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: done for something that was done so long ago. You
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And what I wanted to ask
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: from that is that you seemed forgive me if I'm wrong,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: but the way that it came across was that it
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: seemed like. you were lost a little bit back then
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and were looking for some sort of purpose. And you were,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, you had been talking about being lost in
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the past or you kind of couldn't show up for
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: things as much as you probably can now. I think
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: your mom was even quoted as saying you weren't present
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: for your kids. And it seemed like you had a
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: couple different women going on at the time and they
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: stuck by you, but you hadn't really picked one. I
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: think one of the questions was like, are you gonna
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: marry this woman? And you were like, I don't know
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing tomorrow. So it's like, you know, something
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: that I thought of after watching it is that, you know,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: you were lost back then, but then in doing research
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: about you now, I mean, it almost seems like you've
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: been found. You've found a purpose or you're on a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: mission to be found.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: And how.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: important that is for anyone and how relatable that is
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: because especially for athletes I think that they're we were
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: talking about it earlier but they they have something they're
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: good at it's all they know it's where they get
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: their confidence and their drive from but when that ends
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: then what the hell are they going to do and
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: it and it really defeats a lot of these people
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and their lives turn out terribly because they don't know
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: how to create a second act and you chose you So,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: you know, for the most part, when you wanted to
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: end one story and start another one and you went
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: on a journey to find your second act. So I'm
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: saying a lot here, but it just struck me as
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: how different, in different positions you're in from when that
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: documentary was made. And if you feel that you have
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: been found or you have found some sort of purpose now.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know, and I think the only way
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: to be found is to acknowledge that we're lost, you know?
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: It's like most religions have some story of being lost
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: in the wilderness.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: And because I think to me, this relates to what
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: you were saying earlier about the fear people have of
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: making that jump. They hear that voice, but to actually
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: make that jump is because that fear of being lost.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: And this is where I think growing up, those first
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: five years of my life with my dad, I think
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I always had faith that even if I'm lost, That's
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: what all the religion that.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: They put into my head when I was a kid.
• 54:16
  Speaker 7: And it's like, it was funny how all those, like
• 54:20
  Speaker 7: my early religious upbringing showed back up when I walked
• 54:24
  Speaker 7: away and it showed up powerfully and came with it
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: as just fate that I am lost.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: So I was at a moment when I probably was
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: the most lost. And this is just kind of a
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: synchronistic story. And I was in Australia traveling and there's
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: this guy who lived in the, he lived in the swamp.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: He just, pitched a tent in the middle of a swamp.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Same with Steven.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: He was like, you know, if we did like a
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: movie and I think we're working on one, he was
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: like the mentor figure, you know? And he kind of
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: taught me how to live closer to nature. And one
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: of the things that he, his prized possession when he
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: has this big Bible, you know, and he pulled it
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: out one day and he was like, I think you
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: should take this and start reading it a little bit.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: You know, first I was like, I don't want to
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: read this, but the way I, you know, I respected him.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: So I just, I was just open to the Gospels
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: and I started reading. And I came to a verse
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: and it was something like, if you leave your land
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: and your family and your home and you go seek
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: for me, everything will be given back to you a hundredfold.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: And something like just seeing that verse in that moment,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I kind of had this feeling come over me like,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I'm good.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: And that little push is getting me.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: The push I needed to just keep trusting that inner
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: voice and keep on going. Yeah.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. And I've heard you talk too
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: about the concept of like you get to an impasse
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: where there's like a river and you don't, you know,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you can't cross it because you're maybe not ready. And
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: then sometimes you get the strength and the experience and
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: the courage to cross that path and it brings you
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to the next spot. Can you talk about that concept
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: a little?
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the idea of foresight, you know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: and I think sometimes, you know, We don't, the olden days,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: you know, people would talk about floor side and understanding
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: the future, what was coming, but we don't really, we
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: don't really think that way anymore. And so it's like
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: the ability to see who we have the potential to become.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: You know, the thing that's popular now, what do they
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: call it? It'll come back to me, but But this
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: idea that people feel like imposter syndrome, that's what imposter syndrome.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: And I think that's because people see that their potential. Right.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: But they don't appreciate that that potential exists in the future.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: And it requires work and effort moving in that direction
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: in order to get there.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: And so the idea is getting to the river and
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: realizing I'm not ready to cross the river. doesn't mean
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: panic and think right it just means you got to
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: gain some more experience until you feel confident enough to
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: know that you can cross the river but if you
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: didn't see the river right you wouldn't necessarily have it
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: as a goal oh and so that idea of of
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: appreciating time you know i remember being a kid and
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: thinking about 30 year olds and 40 year olds as
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: being like old you know Now that I'm 46. Yeah.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I remember that too. And
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: now I'm 49.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even make it like, I don't feel like, um, my,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes my body does, my spirit doesn't feel like that.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And so I realized the concept of, of time and
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: I'm glad I didn't buy into it. I had this
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: image of myself that when I get old, right, I'm
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: going to be wise, you know? And I think, that's
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: what motivated me to go through all these different experiences
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: because I realized you don't become wise by being afraid
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: to take chances. Right. Right.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: I know you have a heart out here. So I
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: want to just ask you a couple of last minute
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: questions here. Do you, do you follow the NFL anymore?
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Do you love it still?
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: I have a complicated relationship. I'm a connoisseur of good football.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: So if a game is on, I'm like in it,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: you know, But also what comes up with that is
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: just memories. And it's just such an intense environment where
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: there's such hyper-criticism. After practice or after a game, we
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: go back and watch every step and it's criticized. It's
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: great for making great athletes and great football, but it's
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: a lot. So I think sometimes I kind of tap
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: into that and then I have to take a break.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: But I love good football. Yeah.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Did you think this year had good football? I mean,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: the last I looked, the Super Bowl this year had
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: more viewers than anything in television besides landing on the moon.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: I think the NFL is doing a fantastic job.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And again, I know what goes into creating the product
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: on the field. And I honor it because the dedication
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: and the attention to detail and the amount of effort
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and time these guys put into delivering a really solid product,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: it's commendable.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Did you follow or think anything about the whole Taylor
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Swift movement? into football and how that opened doors for
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: young girls and women to start to like the NFL more?
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's great, you know, because there's, I think
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: just time, right? And we're in this time where we're
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: really strongly trying to have greater equality between men and women.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's about I think for me,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: at least it's about men appreciating the feminine history. And
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: it's about women appreciating the masculine mystery. And I think
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: if we can learn to appreciate each, we can see
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: how they can benefit us and value and bring value
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: to us. And so I think it's great. Any kind
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: of crossover that really helps us understand each other.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Out of your six kids, do you have any Swifties
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: that were wearing Travis Kelsey jerseys?
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: You know, my daughter, she's 17, so she kind of
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: outgrew Taylor, but if this was four years ago.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: She definitely would have been into it. Yeah. It's funny.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: My 11 year old knows more about football than anyone.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like now because of it and half her outfits,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: you know, have Kelsey on the back or 87. So
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: it's cute. I mean, it definitely, it changes, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: someone's mindset as to what's important, which I think is,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: is very cool.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: A couple last questions. Do you have any regrets?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: I don't have regrets, but I do say if I
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: could do things over again, which is kind of the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: same thing. I think I would have taken a year
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: off as soon as I left college. You know, there was,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: cause I said earlier and I won the Heisman and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't ask what next.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: And I think a year off would have given me
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: the space.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: To ask what next. So even if it, right, if
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: it was football, I would have been consciously all in instead.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Of just kind of going with the flow.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Do you have any desire to get back into football
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: in any capacity? And do you see that in your
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: future at all?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: I have a fantasy that comes back every once in
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: a while about being a coach. And it's because to me,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: a coach, especially in football, a head coach is a philosopher.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: And he has to get the whole team to buy
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: into what he's preaching. And if he does that, the
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: talent's there. If he does that, it's beautiful what comes out.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: So I imagine taking all the different things I've learned
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: and applying.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: It to supporting players. young men growing up and becoming leaders.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Because I think as a useful tool, I think the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: things that football teaches you, if you keep the right mindset,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: can prepare you to be successful in life.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Obviously, at one point, again, during this 30 for 30
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: movie run, Ricky Run, it was very clear that you
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: felt misunderstood or people knew you were misunderstood. Do you
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: feel misunderstood now? And do you think, like.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Why do you think you were so misunderstood at the time?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I had, you know, what makes us
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: misunderstood is people can't relate to us. And I think,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: you know, part of it was, you know, being raised
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: by my mom. But I think I just have more
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: courage than most people. And so the things that I
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: was willing to risk and willing to, some people might
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: call it something different, things I was willing to risk
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: and put on the line are things that most people
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: can't fathom. But the same way, most people can't fathom,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: you know, running into people. 400 pound men all the time. So,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: you know, but I think that's what makes us unique
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: is the parts that people can understand.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Hopefully, but I think that, you know, there's misunderstanding and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: there's also, it can cross over into inspiration. I don't
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: know what it is, but there's something there that I
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: I'd like.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Some of that, you know, and that's what I'm, and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm going for.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: You know, as people might not understand me, but they
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: say there's something about him. Yeah.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: And it's so funny you say that because everyone I've
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: mentioned you to, everyone has a story, whether something that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: they've watched you on or one guy was telling me
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: how he saw you at an airport. And like, you know,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: he knows every minute of seeing you at the airport,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: you were sitting down on a curb, you were eating
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: out of a plastic container, and then you got on
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: his flight and it was like the most exciting thing.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: So it's funny you do. You obviously touch people and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: still do in a way. Last question. Um, you know,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: what do you want your legacy to be? What do
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: you want people to, to remember you by and know
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: you for?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Um, that I opened their minds.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Um, okay. Where can
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: people find out more, um, about your astrology app and
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: where can they find out more about, you know, uh,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: hiring you if they want to have a conversation with you? Yeah.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: So my personal website is rickywilliams.life, L I F E.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: And Leela's website is leelaverse.app. Awesome.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Ricky, you are amazing. You're such a kind soul. I really,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: truly wish you the best. And hopefully in the future,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: you will give me a reading and help me have
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: a little more insight because I think we can all
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: use a little mind opening and a little help with
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: a direction, you know? So I appreciate you.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: I'll just say just the fact that you're doing this
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: podcast is you're nailing it.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking about Aquarius, right?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: And so not going into the sign, but when someone
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: says they're an Aquarius, it means.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: The sun was in the sign of Aquarius.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: And astrology being the study of the planets, we think
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: of the sun as a planet.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: So the sun is about what gives us energy, what
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: gives us vitality.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: And Aquarius is the most misunderstood sign because Aquarius is
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: all about being yourself.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Did I tell you I was Aquarius?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: No, I knew. I knew.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: My wife told me.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, amazing. But that is true. So you're amazing. So
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: I love that you said that. And I truly wish
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: you the best. You're an inspiration and I'm very proud
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: of your journey. And I'm proud to say I know you.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get together.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: We'll have a conversation and I'll introduce you to your chart.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: show or want to reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.