Latest / Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert / She Said, She Said: Why Women Need to Stop Apologizing for Wanting Profit with Staci Millard

Transcript

She Said, She Said: Why Women Need to Stop Apologizing for Wanting Profit with Staci Millard · Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Please start with laugh.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, welcome.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the first co-hosted episode of Found Her X, the Small Business School.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: What a what a blend.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a new brand there?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: They don't blend together well.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know how things like come together so quickly?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I we talked about this last night.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is this was birthed less than 24 hours ago.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like currently it's like, I don't know, 1:30 in the afternoon.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like 18 hours ago.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: 18 hours ago, we we birthed this, but we've both been craving co-hosts for our shows because the the conversations, not just that you and I have, but like in a room with people, those are like, you want to be the fly on the wall.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be there.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so different than a solo conversation with a mic.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like even when I have guests on my podcast, like they're specific.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm looking for storytelling, that kind of stuff.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't really have the depending on the guest, there isn't the relationship already there to really like when you co-host something with somebody that you have some established history with, you have some background and some context that you can kind of like vibe and dive in and laugh and giggle or be serious, like all those pieces.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes with guests, you can't do that.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you can, but it's very limited.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like the opportunity to like riff and provide, you know, that back and forth advice, like there's so much magic in that, but it doesn't exist with a guest because like the intention with a guest is really to pull as much information out of them, but not necessarily like really add your two cents in.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, you know, in my um podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So for your listeners, uh, my podcast is called Found Her.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: When I have a guest on, I really try to focus on the guest and their story because my podcast is about the messy middle we find ourselves in as we're building epic shit.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I really want to give witness and testimony to that process to help remove this idea that, you know, we only find success when we're on the mountaintop.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then we look back and we tell people, oh, this is what you do to find success.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not true.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: The mountaintop gives us perspective, but when we're in it, like you are, like I am, like our friends, like we all have scars and battle wounds and stories.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the reality.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: We can't, you can't, you can't be a founder and build an epic life without some of that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the part I think that gives the grit.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, when I have guests on, I really like to give witness to their story and then their business.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's not, it's not a time for me to really riff or go get deep.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna, I have had a few where I'm like, hey, I feel like this is a coaching session and I might need to charge you after.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel bad for my listener because it I then ask the questions for my own learning and growth.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I just the other thing I wanted to say is like you talked about like the mountaintop, is like I think it's mountain ranges.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you and I have both had like successes.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've both scaled and exited.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're doing it again.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you talk about with relationships because it's like I in you, every time that we have conversations, it's like there's so much like back and forth value.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just really excited.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I need to hear this, I need to hear the microphone story before we go any deeper.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: So hilarious.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I I've podcasted for a while.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I had a podcast with my husband back and forth, finally fired him.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just dead weight.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just kidding.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Darren.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot to say, and you either got to keep up or move out.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I last fall, uh, with the help of the social snippet, uh, shameless plug there for them.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: They are the best.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I launched my own podcast.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I started my own um solo founded podcast, and I got, so my personal brand is kind of pink, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like right now, I'm in pink and yeah, my pink shoes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I bought a pink mic.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm interviewing a two, yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just say, okay, so I'm interviewing, started off with some close friends, and uh I'm gonna shout out Christy Amison.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's the owner of Empower Fit.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know where I'm going with this?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're already laughing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So she's I'm imagining.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So she comes on, she comes on um Zoom and we're about set to record.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't, we weren't actually recording, although I think if I had it recorded from the original, it would have been hilarious.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because she goes, so I have the mic sitting in front of me.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the thing about mics, ladies, is they're very phallic.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can tell they've been designed by men.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know who uh who uh created the mic.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so I'm about to start recording and she goes, What the hell is that?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, that thing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, what thing?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, That you're that is that your mic?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: I had the thing I did your hair for.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, it looks like a fucking dildo.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I then I couldn't unsee it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was laughing so hard.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then we had to record this episode, and I could not unsee it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm like, oh my God, this is embarrassing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've already recorded a few episodes.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now I can't unsee it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: So then I I go on, I share it on IG stories because it I thought it was just hilarious.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So did everybody else.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Probably one of my most viewed or commented stories.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm like, oh, you know what I'll do?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'll get it gets worse.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'll get a cover for it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I ordered on Amazon.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: This pink fluffy cover to go over.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Did I get that?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, this is not.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just returned the whole fucking thing and bought a whole new one.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: I still have a pink one, but it's square.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's all square looking.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, that's my story about my body.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a square penis in my life.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that I was like, down her schooling human business and dildo.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and dildo.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know, like it was so funny.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Christy, nobody's anyway, it was hilarious.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my little story about podcast mics.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when you order them to be on brand, just take a moment.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's really the hard part though, because I remember doing a photo shoot to release, like, hey, we're gonna start a podcast.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this this uh photographer kept being like, Well, hold it like this.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this looks very inappropriate.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: All of the ways.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't, I know.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can't do it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: So next time you see a podcast clip or whatever, or whatever, maybe I'll just take a picture.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mine is very square looking.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just go to onlyfans.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, so that's my mic story.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided we wanted to co-host because we wanted to riff on business.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there couldn't be a better time than we literally were just sitting at a million-dollar table.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Another plug, high vibe women.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought it was so sponsorship.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought it was so interesting, just like the level of community that they've created when not zero requests, but we every one of us stood up at the t at the front of the room to like introduce ourselves.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And how many of us were like, hey, shout out to high vibe women, like this built our brands, they've been so helpful, the community.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we just came back from Million Dollar Table.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we're sitting with business owners where I got drunk accidentally.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Accidentally.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: The first and last high vibe women where they serve alcohol.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it was really interesting hearing uh stories from other business owners that were growing, how like different businesses support each other.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, like, what were some of your biggest takeaways from that that event?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so first and foremost, um I didn't have dinner last night and didn't have breakfast this morning.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when they served the drink, I just assumed it was a mock tail and I took a drink, and I love sour drinks, sour strong drinks.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I just thought it was like, and but then I was like a couple sips in.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I think this has booze in it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Then so then I had a couple, and then I was like, wow.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh anyway, so I was a little buzzed in the first thing, and then I had a wardrobe malfunction of spilled up anyway.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So those were some of the events, not my takeaways.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: But here's my takeaway, and I heard it again today, and I was talking with one of the BDC reps about this, and this is kind of it's uh it's actually a soapbox for me in a little bit, uh a little bit of a way.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is women what I hear women saying is they want to help people, and they always say, I want to help people, but I want to help people, but I can't help uh, but they're not the ideal client because the ideal client doesn't require as much help.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like there's a it's like I don't know if this is a female thing, is that we feel that we need to lead our business out of impact and help.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that there's something wrong with leading our business out of like capitalism or wanting to make money in order to help and impact.
• 9:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like I heard somebody talking about like I have these clients that I really want to help, and I want to help and I want to help, but they don't build my business because they're not maybe the ideal client.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: They might be one day.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I find so I heard some of that again today, and I was talking with one of the BDC reps about that because I find that this is the area, and I don't, like I said, I don't know if it's the nurture style of females or this place where we still have to are feeling like we have to apologize for wanting to build a profitable business or business first business because I'm in a trades franchise, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: I um co-founder of Door Gurus, I am building a door business.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that does not sound like uh for a lot of female purpose-driven, impact-driven business, because it's like doors, it's trades.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And some of us I get asked a lot, like, are you passionate about doors?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, fuck no, I'm not.
• 10:00
  unknown: Right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like doors, right?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: What I am passionate about is the opportunity to help people build better lives and the opportunity that the industry provides.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what the vehicle is, it's the ability to help people build better lives, whether that's the people that work for me and their visions for their lives, or for me in my case, the franchise partners that come in and invest and want to change their life.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: That is, but profit has to be at the forefront of that because I can't, I can't, I I can only fund it so long, and then I'm gonna tap out, and then it's no longer business.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple things that I think with that, like sorry, that was a lot.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I remember the conversation and I think there's a few things is like what startled me was the precursor to that is BDC dropping.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard the stat before, but it hits me every time.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like women actually weren't even able to get a business loan until the 80s.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in the 80s.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like we didn't even get a they just got a bank account in the 70s, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have enough reps of making this requirement.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think we as human beings are just more emotional.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we do lead with the desire to like serve and from a more emotional aspect.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you layer that on.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: But one of my favorite parts of that conversation is just like, I think we need to shift it instead of just service to like, how do I help these people without giving every ounce of my time?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of the ideas because you uh this is the one thing I really love about you and the work that you do.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this because you are so community driven and driving value in your community, which is why your husband, when he launched his business, that really was successful because of the connection in the community and the service you provide within your community.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I know for you, like that is like driven home all the time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: How can we provide value?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: How can we provide value?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So speak to a little bit of that then.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's a few things that I thought instantly is like, one, we need to do a better job of like demanding profit.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we were to ask ourselves, like, would I just go volunteer?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I gonna quit my day job, start out in entrepreneurship to volunteer?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, actually not.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I need an income, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think having that standard in our business of making profit and then layering on, how do I help?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the question was is like, start getting out of like thinking outside the box.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can you create a tool?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the day and age of AI, everybody is writing programs.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So how can you create a tool that serves the people that you like you need to serve?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody was like, well, why don't you just charge them for their services?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I I kind of understood as like uh those people, like if they can't afford my services, I do want to help in some way.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like it's not directly my time.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's not scalable.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't serve the most number of people by doing everything one-on-one.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: So or even pro bono or at a reduced rate.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, how can you get out of your own way when you ask the right question?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do I serve those people?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Give them a few things.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not, doesn't it's like I hate the word freebie and like lead magnet and all that shit.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about a lead magnet.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, how do I help these people without helping them?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, would I volunteer six hours of my time on a Saturday to create something that could help 150 people?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I'm gonna give this out for free because it's gonna serve this like single mom who's never gonna be able to afford my services, or like right, you know, or like you with accounting, maybe it's the startup bootstrapper.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was the best best thing that came out of that conversation.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the second best thing is this thought that like free services, I actually think if you're starting out, can be a really good way to build your business and get known.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's underrated and very quickly you have to pivot out of it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're early on in business and you're like kind of struggling to get clients and things like that, like we have to get out of our own way.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not that important that you can't help people and really show your value.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have to transition into like, okay, now how do I use my time where it's needed most?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that having an intentional conversation with either whoever is helping you build your business plan.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: If that's you and yourself, you and Claude, you and whoever, it's how do I carve out, okay, I want to be able to bring in a certain kind of income, but you can't serve, like you said, you can't serve everybody at that income.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody can afford that or whatever it is.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter whether whatever your fee is.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it won't meet for everybody.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: So then the question is, how much of my work do I want it to be on a reduced income, if you will, or availability, or like you said, creating something that could deliver to a larger scale.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then that becomes your with little effort.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: That becomes your, and you have to be okay with that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like understanding we can't rescue and help everybody.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: We can, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever works in your industry to create some kind of tool, questionnaire, process, whatever that can be to the delivered.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: What I do like is then the next step to that, speaking to what you spoke to is free services.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Then you need to know if you're launching a business and you have zero cash, zero sales, and you're looking to get out there, because this is the one thing we see even uh when we as we uh launch franchise partners, is we have a pricing model that we say this is what you should charge so that you can maintain your margins.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: But when you start in business, you have a hard time charging, quote unquote, your worth.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is a process that you learn over the reps, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think everybody has to do that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So understanding, okay, what am I willing to give away for free?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the and what is the entry-level service?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: What is the service that will allow me to showcase what I'm doing and know that you want to give X amount away and then start the with that?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's purpose behind it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I mean.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So like and whenever we're doing it, we're looking at like, okay, so is this person able to like, can I use this as like something for my portfolio?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can I use this as um, they know this many people, so I can give it away for free.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's always a purpose behind it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can't just do everything for charity.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what I was saying, like driving, building your business or b putting it forward as impact first with the profit being on the back burner.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: What I hear from women is they burn out.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I'm hearing.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're exhausted.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: I need money.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then they hit burnout before, and then they're like finally, they're like, okay, fine.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna make money most important.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is my talk at Brig Bet Big Brand Energy, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we always seem to hit burnout, and then we hit and we're like, man, if I'm gonna have to be busting my ass and broke, I might as well be busting my ass and rich.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, that's a that's a sound bite that I think uh Nicole and Kayla say all the time.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've heard Nicole repeat that a few times.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like over and over and over again, and then we make money important, and all of a sudden we're like, oh wow, we really like when we had money, all of a sudden we were able to like even amplify how much we were giving for free.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's so shocking when you just like we gotta bring the numbers in.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think so?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: So for women, it's like, I think, you know, when you hang around, this is so funny, when you hang around with ambitious females, other ambitious females, like things just seem like normal.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like me and you, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Some of our other friends, like it just seems normal for us.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then when you get into a bigger group of varied business experience, then you see where this struggle really lays.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so what is it?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a is it a mindset?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a is it a socio- I think it's the reps.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like you rewind, we only have 40 years of like business experience unless your family, like it's less likely that you had family enterprise.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's literally like my generation and one generation before me.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like if my mom had started a business in her 20s, like it would have been day one of being able to get a business loan, and then I would be second generation.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just not enough reps, like we're not in the right conversations.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So here's one of the things that I'm I noticed at that table.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Every single person was talking about numbers in a different way.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we I heard people talk about their close rates.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I heard people talk about their funnels, I heard people talking about margins, I heard people talking about customer acquisition costs.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like these, those uh language and the terminology was getting thrown around freely.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't happen at most other tables.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we have mixed business, people are like might talk revenue, might talk the number of clients that they serve or something like that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, social followings, but they're not getting in the nitty-gritty of what really leads to successful business.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I think um Emma, I can never I can I can never say her name proper her last night, I never remember it.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Emma Guard, Emma Grade, Emma Gard, is that she's the American gene girl.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Good American, good American gene girl.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I love when she wrote her book.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I love that the the uh soapbox she went on.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so you just can't have impact without profit unless you're building a community foundation.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're saying you're running a business and building a business, and so I think that women have to be more unapologetic and bold in saying that I'm running a bit, I'm building a business.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm uh it it's got impact.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: We all want impact, but that's the first thing you got to do.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so that you can remember that it is the numbers that drive the impact.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just the foundation of everything else.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I talk a lot about this.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we all have the heart, right?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: The impact.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: We all have that, every single one of us.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: But blood flow, the money is the blood flow, and we need the money to sustain it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like when the numbers are just like a non-negotiable, it's not something that you have to think about more often.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like not at all costs, right?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have other standards and values that have to be upheld while we're making money.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like it's such a foundation.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can accept that and then think about the numbers, and this is, I think SaaS is turning this around.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think, yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what I'm seeing.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of software is becoming more and more accessible for anybody to write this within their business.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think SAS does this really well.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about customer acquisition costs and like Tam Sam Psalm, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like who who of your business friends knew those things before you pitched the forum?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was I was familiar with market share, that that kind of language, but not the Tam Sam, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Even right, you just people don't talk about that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But like why would you go into business if you don't know total market size, like your achievable size out of that, what's the demand in your area?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: What would my cost be to serve this?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are willing people willing to pay?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's um, I think there's a messaging going around.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it happened over the COVID boom, you know, like the boom of uh knowledge-based businesses, which are now really struggling because of the the shift in AI.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You mean they all put everything out for free and it was completely overwhelming?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is you uh it was not about it was this like um the knowledge-based industry is like however many billions of dollars, all you need is a little slice of it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's all you need is a tiny little slice.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember repeatedly, because I watched Dragon Stand and Sharks Tank like it's school, um, every single time when one of those investors would out or entrepreneurs would ask the pitcher um what their plan is to gain market share.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: If they said, well, it's a whatever hundred billion dollar industry, I only need one percent of it to make my rich or whatever, they would just that would be it.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: It would be over.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and I remember it's just kind of like seared into my brain.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is not a strategy for business saying, Oh, I only need to gain this type of sliver out of a market share.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: To me, that that is not a strategy.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: That yeah, that might make sense.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're not going for the whole hundred billion dollar industry.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Our door industry in Canada is 2.2 billion.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know how we're getting our market share?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: 30 franchise partners in Canada doing X amount of dollars.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I have an actual strategy on how I'm gonna take some of that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Market share.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not just like, oh, I only need 1% of it or whatever it is, 10% of it or whatever.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think having better conversations about what does it mean to start a business, even if it's an uh solopreneur kind of coaching, like just understanding the numbers and how do you get market share.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think in the knowledge-based business too, like the people who did well were just really great marketers.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that came naturally to them.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that no matter if you have a brick and mortar or whatever that looks like, like you have to be really great at marketing.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: In like we wear all the hats, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like they did well because they were natural at that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were willing to show up on social, be very forward-facing.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had success.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's not actually because they were great at the rest of business.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a conversation today.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: I with um, I had a conversation today about that part of it, about the sales, the asking part for women asking for the sale.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and how I mean, I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of wannabe entrepreneurs or business owners.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And other than the first question I always get is what's the ROI?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the second question I get is how do I get customers?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a ton, a ton.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody wants the freedom of building their own schedule, building their own lifestyle, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but it's the dues, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are the dues?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: What are you willing to pay to get there?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: How many doors are you gonna knock on and get the nose?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to do that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to market or learn how to market.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to do the sales.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: They just want the the the fun parts without the reps.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: But this is what I'm teaching.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, I want the body without the going to the gym.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Going to the gym.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: But this is what I'm teaching my eight and 10-year-old daughters is like, what does it take to get there?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like persevering through the nose.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if everybody if it was that easy, everybody would do it and there wouldn't be that much reward.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you want uncommon rewards, you have to put in some either uncommon knowledge, uncommon effort, like what's what are you, what are you willing to risk to get there?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's usually the uncommon effort.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because then one day we next.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mine's brilliance.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just really brilliant.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what happens is like once you get there, once you're on that one mountaintop, because it's like you said, it's like it's uh, it's uh what did you call it?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's like a mountain range, like all the range.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So once you get them on, then you're like, oh people are like, oh, look at you.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you do is you're so successful.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, did you see how many frogs I kissed to get here?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I call it in my industry, kissing frogs.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're actually, I guess, like both in somewhat startup phase.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say it's like way harder the second time, third time, whatever it is.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like having deciding to have another child for those that are have children and grow families.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: You forget that that little baby needs up in the middle of the night, it needs supervision, it needs nurture, it needs care.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel okay?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of are both bootstrappy people.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I what are your thoughts on like, would it be easier if you just did like a four million dollar raise at the start, you get four million dollars and you went and hired people.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it would be any easier?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because like I'm witnessing some people in my world who are doing that, and they seem from the outside, they seem to go further faster.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Although there's a lot of those stories, especially in like Silicon Valley, where they burnt out and died.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: They fizzled and died.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they put rocket fuel on it and it wasn't quite a rocket yet.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't quite a rocket yet.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: So here's I I can I I have thoughts on this because I actually experienced this, but in a small on a smaller scale, um, personally, because Darren and I have invested in building this franchise brand.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's all of our own cash.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And when we started, we had money, right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, oh, we need a COO, we need this, oh, we need that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you start, oh, I need a marketing, I need a creative, I need, and you start getting those things because you have it's like not disposable income, but we and we know we're like, okay, we're prepared to invest into some of these things to make this happen.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um here's what happens though, is it doesn't yes, we were still bootstrapping and we had to, I mean, you saw some of the balance sheets at the beginning.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: You there's still a lot of cash going out, and you have to be mindful because you can do the math.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know what's in the bank account, what's coming in, what's left over, so you can do the roadmap.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but this last year um was probably our I keep saying every year is gonna be less expensive and it ends up being more expensive.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I gotta work on that.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: But this last year, um we had to get really scrappy because at our current burn rate, we could not like I and I like I like to have like a two to four year runway, not like three to six months.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're we're driving a Titanic.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: We can but lots of people start with the three to six months, and like that's a whole nother problem.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's maybe a whole nother podcast.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like your expectations are not realistic.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to have like, and I know I can overkill that.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes I have, you know, people that say, okay, you need to bring that in a little bit, but that's we're driving a Titanic.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can't make a quick pivot.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so anyway, it forced us to get really freaking scrappy, scrappier than we were at the beginning.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: So to go back to your original question, when you raise a bunch of money or have a bunch of cash to start off with, uh yes, you're still being bootstrappy, but there's more comfort in decision making because you have the cash.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: When you don't have the money for that particular position, now you're trying to figure out like us.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: We were like, okay, do how do we really need our building?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: $70,000,000 a year.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: What does it contribute to?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: What is it taking away from?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: What could right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And those are hard questions.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: At the beginning, it was a no-brainer.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we need it.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's worth the five grand a month, six grand a month, whatever it is.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that I think that in the startup phase, when you're building something big, big, anyway, that's us, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're building a lemonade factory, um, enterprise value, it it's important for us to learn to be super scrappy as well.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of my own personal experience and thought on that.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: What about you?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I think the same thing.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that there's like this myth that you can go further faster, but I think there's a ton of overspending.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at the failure rates of businesses, like I don't know.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I guess maybe just because I'm like kind of in the SaaS situation right now, I'm just like watching all the SaaS businesses, like open close, open, close.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they all raise and then they fizzle out and die.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, man, that's somebody's money.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, I just it's I I don't agree that it's the right way.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So this is interesting because I think SaaS has a faster life cycle.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, it's so fast.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so whereas my business is not like that, yours and kind of the areas that you're leaning into, um, they are fast life cycles.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, so now for me, it's really interesting because I'm like, I'm used to a different way, and then I kind of have to adapt to this like this is their way and this is how fast they move, but also kind of doing it my way.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the most underrated skill in business is being able to like discern and reflect.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know that I've landed on the right thing yet because I think sometimes when you're a founder, you need to be delusional, you need the blinders on.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the same time, and it's like because there's just so many naysayers and doubters.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So many.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: My spiral yesterday.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're just things there, yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But so you need to have the blinders on enough that you just like stay in your own lane, you kind of keep going.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, it's like you need to reflect enough that you're like really asking yourself the right question, like pivoting when necessary.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you're you have to do those things as well.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's like finding a balance that works for you.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I really leaned into this year for us.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, let I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't want to do some of the other jobs in the business, like wearing all the multiple hats, but this is where we're at.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: We need to be super scrappy.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: We need to, and and we need to learn from the super scrappiness.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like your children when they grow up and move into their own uh world, they learn how to rely on themselves in their transition from childhood, young adulthood into adulthood, learning to, you know, work for somebody else, answer different questions, supply their own rant.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like they learn how to uh depend on themselves through that process.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of the same way, I think, as a founder.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna see our little uh gosh, our little uh co-hosting uh episodes can get quite fun.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be so fun.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have a hot flash, ladies.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be so much goodness in these.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm gonna say this is gonna be the end of episode our joint episode.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that okay?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I know because we can just keep we could go forever, but we really wanna use our podcast studio time well today.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: We got a nice little studio.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: These are really comfy chairs.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and this studio is beautiful.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, shout out if you're in the Vancouver area and you need a podcast, like Yale Town Studio.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we came in, it was it was uh high end.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we should we should call this uh oh my god, I'm having such hot flashes today.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: The alcohol and coffee first thing in the morning just set my whole nervous system off.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we should call this our our um whether it's a once a month or whatever we end up doing, uh we should call it She Said She Said.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh I love it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's do it.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: She said she said.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like I really think that a series.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's the word I'm looking for.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: The series.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we need to do this at least once a month.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think these are the conversations that everybody wishes that they had.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, uh I could just go on a tangent, but you said this was the end.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is the end.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You need to put yourself in those rooms.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just really hope that listeners are really excited and are gonna stay tuned for the next episode of She Said She Said.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good one, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so you found her and School of Small Business too long.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Small small business school, yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Small sorry, school.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did I say?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: School of small business.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know the funny thing is like that's what I named it to begin with.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, ooh, that's too wordy.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Small business school instead.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a small business school.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So now everybody's confused.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: No four years, 400 episodes later, we're still confused, folks.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just tune in.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, this has been fun.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Kim.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just like I just love our time together.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm gonna do it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I always look forward.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Stacey's gonna be there.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Except for to the Dominican, I'm not going.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be more discerning about my expenses.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do this.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.