Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of War of the Sontarans

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Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of War of the Sontarans · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Welcome back to the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:45
I am here with what I consider to be one of the finest
0:50
podcasters out there, mr. Dillon Reese.
0:52
How are you doing today? I'm doing wonderful.
0:54
It's lovely to be here with you again to war with some some tar
0:58
and say we're having a great time in this ski resort we know
1:02
what what what people can't see is, we're actually sat in the
1:06
naked sauna downstairs, just doing John.
1:10
Who commentaries instead of doing terrible things to each.
1:12
I've always washing Chippendale Doctor, Who, it's, it's very
1:18
true spiritual. But what else would you do in a
1:20
ski resort? I can't skate many things.
1:28
So we have covered episode 1 of flux, the Halloween apocalypse,
1:34
and had a gay old time watching that.
1:37
Yes, we did it. What's next?
1:40
It's the four of the sontar and a big, historical Doctor Who
1:44
epic it. If you thought last week's was a
1:47
big episode, they don't get much bigger than this.
1:49
Hey, I said last week, it's the first episode felt like a series
1:53
finale. I think quite a few of these
1:56
could quite easily be either season openers or season finales
2:00
of like mission statements of a big version of Doctor Who.
2:03
I don't think there's I think the quietest episode weirdly is
2:07
probably the Weeping Angels One, which is, that's feels the, most
2:10
sort of mid series, but it's still an absolute belter of an
2:14
episode. So you don't you don't really
2:15
notice. He's making up for the battle of
2:20
the response to the Battle of France.
2:21
Growth colos, being such a whirlwind tour of an ending
2:25
because we are that fine, you're at six finales this season.
2:30
Very true, very true. And after what he did to fund
2:33
them with his finale, the previous season people were
2:38
going into the vanquishers with great.
2:40
Trepidation probably wisely. I can't wait to get to that one.
2:46
You know, Rita how many of these plots is actually gets resolved
2:51
because for once I don't think I give a shit.
2:53
Yeah, it's this weird thing and I think I might have to watch it
2:56
a couple of times when we and we do do it.
2:59
But I do think that all resolved and when we do to it, when we do
3:03
do it? Yes.
3:04
Watch the episode Joe watch the episode.
3:08
I do think they all get resolved, but some of them quite
3:10
quickly and you don't realize that it's happening in that way.
3:15
So, I'm I don't buy the thing that they're not all wrapped up.
3:19
I just think it's not as neatly as some people would.
3:22
Like it. There is so much, Exposition
3:26
explanation and that episode they added split Jody with two,
3:31
three, versions of the doctor just so she could say it very
3:35
true, very true. But that was the fat is script
3:37
for the year. You know what about is the same
3:40
runtime as all the other stories?
3:42
Now we talked a little bit on the last episode about the
3:46
afraid one interview with Chris, chibnall didn't worry, we talked
3:50
about that and Matt Stevens the year before.
3:54
Did a Gallifrey one interview and in it, he says about this
3:57
season that they never had to stop.
4:01
They didn't shut down because of covid-19, this because the
4:05
scripts weren't ready during flux, really?
4:09
Yeah. Is that just because he was, he
4:13
was having to kind of rewrite the season, top to toe.
4:16
I think so. But I mean it's also like people
4:21
Doctor Who fans point of Chris, chibnall and sort of go.
4:23
Oh my God, what a terrible thing to do.
4:26
I've worked on television series, and scripts, are
4:28
constantly being Rewritten. I did a thing last summer which
4:31
isn't out yet and it was every nice you got woken up.
4:37
And by basically the lead producer is going the writers
4:40
Rewritten, the scenes for tomorrow.
4:42
We need to change it while we're not ready to shoot this.
4:45
Can we can we get into This location early.
4:47
Can we get this actor in? So I think Doctor Who fans, look
4:50
at it as like the sky is falling, but television
4:53
production is really chaotic thing.
4:55
So when I hear that he they had to shut down because the scripts
4:58
were ready. It doesn't surprise me.
5:00
I don't think that wasn't the case in the classic series.
5:03
No clothes Terrace Dixon one of the commentaries turns around
5:06
and playing it when goes all, you know, so did you ever see
5:09
the show be made? He's like I was on the set every
5:12
day in case my needed to rewrite or change lives.
5:16
Things work because I think pip and Jane Baker in Mark of the
5:19
Rani were there when they suddenly go actual location work
5:22
and they were rewriting great, like things overnight lot of
5:26
that was going on, then the war games.
5:29
Yeah, exactly. But the point of this era and
5:32
have a moan that's what. Yeah, I mean we think we hear
5:36
about all the stories that were made during the rusty Davis are,
5:40
or the marketer in? It's nothing.
5:41
New the idea that Rusty Davis suddenly went, I'm going to
5:44
write a script in a weekend and get rid of Tom macray's script
5:47
for what was it called by Century house or something like
5:50
that. And people look that as like a
5:52
brave move, that would have been very hellish on.
5:56
Everybody's Parker is evolved to suddenly turn around a brat.
5:58
They were thought they were making a completely different
6:00
episodes. So it is chaos and I think it's
6:06
always will be chaos and I think the sky is very rarely falling
6:09
when things go badly wrong and it can in television and by the
6:12
time the series is rap, no one remembers the days that they
6:15
couldn't shoot or scripts we're ready or this prop wasn't ready.
6:19
Well, I'll say this, if they had to hold because the scripts
6:23
weren't ready after watching War of the sontarans, which is my
6:27
personal favorite episode of this season.
6:29
I think this is 10/10. This is a so yeah.
6:33
It's in my top 5, Jodie Whittaker I think is one banging
6:36
scene after another is worth the way.
6:40
Yeah I mean this is going to be quite a loving commentary.
6:43
I imagine that's I don't really have any criticisms of this
6:46
episode at all. No neither do I.
6:49
So certainly I think some of the visuals in this are astonishing
6:55
my love about it is how to sort of nuanced.
6:58
It is how interesting the guest characters are, and how How
7:03
funny is, there is so many good comedy Minds in this episode?
7:08
Well, okay into it. Sure.
7:10
Is this Jamie Magnus tone? Again, I don't know whether it
7:14
is. And, you know, I did, as I was
7:16
watching, we both are going to take notes 0915.
7:22
I made notes about things, I liked but I didn't,
7:25
unfortunately I did not be ready Research into the
7:28
behind-the-scenes stuff, I do I'm a terrible plan start right
7:31
now so I just wanted to watch it because Yeah, I'm uh, sighs.
7:34
I'll screw the part. I'll wing it.
7:38
Well, I think this is Jodi Magness tone.
7:40
I think the first two are and I remember when I was watching
7:45
this, I'll take a video certain bits.
7:47
Yeah, I saw you practicing. The direction was impressing me
7:50
so much and I just was writing Direction and posted a video and
7:54
lies of people were liking it, you know?
7:56
So I think there is a bit of love here.
7:58
It looks like a like a big budget feature film and not say
8:01
the last one didn't but the last Episode felt like a big budget,
8:05
bit of Television. This one is like Doctor Who the
8:08
movie. And as you were saying, just now
8:10
it's an agronomist, but it's not, it's not one of these poxy
8:13
50 minute episodes and what this does.
8:17
So the first episode was all about bringing the three
8:20
regulars together. This separates them, and a my
8:24
only complaint is, you know, something just pop off to
8:26
another plot, you know, it's a bit inconvenient, but there we
8:30
go. But they've all quite credible.
8:33
Away agency in this. And they all carry their plots
8:36
brilliantly. Yeah, absolutely.
8:40
We should watch it. Let's jump in, shall we go in?
8:44
Okay, let's watch more of the sontarans in five.
8:47
Four, three, two, one. Well, a yeah, I think um
8:54
obviously we are going to be B sycophantic in this one, but
8:57
when it comes to Once Upon Time, there's so much to I'm picking
9:00
that one, you know, I think, Okay, so what do you think, we
9:05
need a previously on given the 100 plots that started in the
9:08
Halloween apocalypse? I mean, I don't think anybody
9:11
tuning in for episode 2 is going to have a clue what's going on,
9:14
but also, but as we said in the last episode, this assumes that
9:19
people are tuning in weekly and paying attention.
9:22
And, and so, it should, you can't constantly be trying to
9:26
have 10 episodes that are all first nights.
9:29
You know, you have to give a story that the people will
9:32
invest in and And invest in them now, black and white doctor who
9:39
aren't eating these, what a brilliant opening to an episode
9:42
and this spooky fucking house hanging in the air over this
9:47
desolate landscape. Now, what did everybody think
9:51
this was at the time? You remember I try to think
9:54
something from. Is it long Barrow?
9:56
Or so everybody thought it was long Barrow now, because I'm not
10:00
normally one to fall for those things, but riding on the Of the
10:04
time these children I was like if anybody's going to put lung
10:07
barrier in this series is going to be Christian or he did the
10:12
morbius doctors, you know, I saw I saw Philip Hinchcliffe doctor
10:19
in an episode of Doctor Who the previous year, give me long
10:21
Barrow. But it wasn't instead it's it.
10:25
What I as far as I can figure is a visual representation
10:28
representation of all those memories that the doctor cause
10:32
most, which could or could not be also long Barrow, okay?
10:40
However, you want to count eyes are right, apparently?
10:45
Right. I love these.
10:47
I love how they look these sequences on the, this salt
10:50
water on Battlefield. There's corpses everywhere.
10:53
Where it's snowing apparently it was the most miserable and I
10:59
don't mean in tone of shoot and whether shoot they ever hacked.
11:04
I mean it looks it I'm you know when you watch Capaldi's last
11:08
one twice Upon Time twice Upon a Time.
11:10
Sorry, that's the same. The same thing.
11:13
They're on this battlefield. You like my guard?
11:15
I would not want to be there and, you know, they're probably
11:18
shooting in February or something like that, and it just
11:20
looks miserable this marvelous actresses.
11:23
Playing Florence. Not is a place.
11:25
I'm gonna marry see cars. But got sorry.
11:28
Lawrence Florence during this near to the front line.
11:31
That's what she says. Thank you.
11:32
I was just reading the subtitle, that's why I said it Lupe's Mary
11:36
Seacole, she goes this beautiful dress.
11:39
They put me in. And within five minutes, it was
11:41
all covered in mud and dirt. She sounds like a right laugh
11:46
and it's another terrific performance.
11:49
Yeah, and another thing of the chip, molera harking back to To
11:53
look sort of original remit of the show, the educational thing
11:56
and the historical sides and giving us a story Uncle figures
11:58
that we just never interacted with before like we've had all
12:02
the big ones without Charles Dickens and Marco Polo and
12:05
things like that, give me more of this.
12:07
Like I hope that the rusty Davis here at it's coming up there,
12:11
particularly with what she T. Gap was said about what I'd like
12:13
to see. There are so many positive areas
12:15
of black history where you're like, okay, you're going to show
12:18
me about some amazing historical figures that I have never ever
12:21
encountered but he's a saint Taryn on a horse which is
12:25
amazing. It's such a, it's such a simple
12:30
premise for kids to get their heads around, isn't it sontarans
12:35
it sort of instead of Russia, you see it very simply on a map
12:38
that you saw it. I sometimes versus soldiers,
12:43
it's great. It's an action movie waiting to
12:45
happen and there's something about sontarans because of the
12:49
time Warrior that they just look great in the past, like that's
12:54
her introduced to them. And they do because they are
12:57
like knights in shining armor in a way and they almost look there
13:01
silliest when they're up against sort of modern-day soldiers and
13:06
or other alien races, when they're stood amongst them in
13:09
the Pandora, Rekha and stuff, then you go there aren't they
13:11
look a bit silly but in the past they look like the most menacing
13:14
zalgar, isn't it? Yes, that's really really well.
13:19
And what I really like is that even though children make some
13:21
funny and he does, I think this is the first time.
13:27
The sontarans have felt like a lethal Force.
13:30
Yeah, possibly ever. Yeah, I think you're right.
13:34
Like this, is I With the exception of the first of the
13:39
time Warrior. I don't particularly love
13:41
anything for the sontarans have been in apart from that.
13:45
This is I'm going to go into my love of BBV here.
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I think the BBV audios do the sontarans better than anybody
13:52
else. So if I like Shakedown return,
13:55
the sontarans Jeweler. That is a lot of fun.
13:57
But the baby, the audios really go into sort of the psyche and
14:01
the nature of the sontarans and like it's the best stuff they
14:04
did, but that's that's for a different.
14:07
Nestled in the BBC book. The Infinity doctors by last
14:11
parking does as well, amazing, yeah.
14:14
Remember that? Yes, more sort of their military
14:17
tactics and things like that because they're squaring off
14:21
outside Gallifrey with the ruins.
14:25
This set Dylan, it's gorgeous, but also Doctor Who fans here
14:30
and myself. Included a going that floating
14:33
thing. Are we doing the key to time?
14:35
It's a bit like the under Stones, a blood and pass.
14:37
Ginger when he shows up looks a bit like the shadow hits all of
14:40
it like um because and we can't help again.
14:43
We we can't help it but also chibnall must know that he's
14:46
given us. These little false glimmers and
14:49
go Doctor Who fans or think that and then it's not which is fine.
14:52
It's better than the key to time that that might be heresy for
14:55
some people, but I love the case.
14:57
Ask me why my favorite classic season?
14:59
You know, but I gotta take your time as well but but in terms of
15:03
a season-long epic, I think. The individual story.
15:08
I think this might be a little more robust.
15:11
Yeah. The individual stories and key
15:13
to time. There are wonderful.
15:15
Have you done the commentaries on them all know, all of them.
15:18
I've done some three. I think no one's been clamoring
15:22
to power of Kroll. I do pará crowbar.
15:25
Let's do it right? I don't.
15:26
We've got 400 other episodes to recall.
15:28
That was a big Miss green, Faisal show row.
15:48
Triangles in this. Yeah.
15:50
I just like the way they've got a float around.
15:54
So cute. I love them.
15:55
They're great. I want One Direction here as was
15:59
Shackled. As it's going to cross the
16:02
Steadicam shot. It is fabulous.
16:05
Yeah, it's amazing. And then just Go around the
16:08
Tardis with her. The show's never look like this.
16:11
No, it looks fantastic. There's just it just every like
16:17
even the bits of this season that I think visually look a
16:20
little weaker. Still look ten times better than
16:22
anything. We've had in Doctor Who
16:24
previously, kind of, the only things I think look weak in this
16:27
whole occasional moments. The CGI, why I think and that's
16:31
I think only because they're having to do so much CGI because
16:36
they can't build enough said. Or they can't go on location or
16:38
for whatever reason. You know, I think it's just
16:42
before you do, I don't know whether you know, the what in
16:46
Hollywood now everybody uses this thing called the volume
16:48
which is virtual sex on LED screens Peak warms and thick.
16:52
Yeah. That's what Star Trek are they?
16:54
Yeah and I think they're using that for the current version of
16:56
dr. By know that using it for the
16:58
current version of Doctor Who as well and I think big-budget tree
17:02
or just the technology wasn't available.
17:04
I think this is trying to do the same thing but they just haven't
17:07
Access to the yeah the equipment but I still think they do a
17:11
fantastic job with you. Traditional green screens.
17:14
I am going to keep mentioning Jody whisker in this episode
17:18
because I think that bit there where she runs up to the Tardis
17:20
and she scream. Don't you tell me she can't like
17:24
do gravitas. Oh no I don't believe.
17:26
I don't buy a word of it. Like I done by word of it by the
17:30
end of the first series. But I saw all the beef and the
17:32
first episode, to be honest. But here like you tell me she
17:36
isn't holding her own. Capaldi or Smith or 10 and she's
17:40
out of the shower this point. And I think, I think how better
17:44
to best things in this are one. It's the one where she squares
17:47
off against the sontaran on the battlefield.
17:50
And she goes, Joe, take your helmet off.
17:51
Oh God, put it back on again. That whole sequence is just
17:55
brilliant but it's also the bit where she's absolutely
18:00
disgusting when he blows up the ship's.
18:02
Yeah, and she sort of turns around and says, why do I why
18:05
bother with humanity and The various Eco is that to reminder.
18:09
Precisely why she bothers with Humanity?
18:12
Exactly. Now we just missed Dunn's
18:14
parents. Now, if there's, if there's
18:16
something that this series gets wrong, it's that they're not
18:19
anymore. Dylan, where do you love?
18:22
You be like they've got real sort of what's Bernard cribbins
18:30
and surname that you're going to name that.
18:32
They've got that energy of like an RTD companions families.
18:37
Where Or just like, okay, these are the comic relief, but
18:40
they'll have some lovely moments and they just, they're a bit
18:42
throw away, which is a shame. I think she'll keeps bringing in
18:45
great, family members, and it should have.
18:47
And that's such a shame. This is the best like, they are
18:51
only in about three scenes and I thought that was my mom's
18:55
catchphrase. You know, every time I'll turn
18:56
up at her house, she's a lady. I love you been Joe fault and
19:00
he's just got parents, but a bit where they're in the car and
19:04
they get any says something in and she goes, you didn't Say
19:07
that. I said that, yeah, it's pretty
19:11
insane. And just again more Regional
19:14
accents on Doctor Who and I know, doctor isn't exactly the
19:16
arpeggio. It used to be.
19:18
But there's no other show runner would go, right.
19:23
We're going to have a historical character from Liverpool.
19:24
Gonna have no more people from Liverpool, like it's just
19:27
thinking, and I know chibnall himself is from Liverpool.
19:30
So, obviously just wanted to put his City into the show, but it
19:34
just and those tunnels exist, the tunnels exist and And I
19:37
don't know. I do wonder if that was supposed
19:39
to be like an individual episode about was certainly.
19:42
Yeah, almost certain this is, I think the, the survivors of the
19:47
flux unit story. I bet that was supposed to be a
19:49
story in its own, right. How unit was created and the
19:54
angel one, I think probably was going to be a story.
19:56
That's not true, unless it's just us and the division one, as
20:00
I bet that was gonna be the finale, the family manages to
20:04
sort of seek a weave, it all into this big narrative. - it's
20:08
very rich. It is when we get to the unit 1,
20:11
we must talk about the possibility of whether Captain
20:16
Jack was ever in the story. Hey, and now I don't, I don't
20:20
have any particular inside information about that, but I
20:23
think it's worth contemplating and I think that's the episode
20:27
where, if you, if there was a Captain Jack potentially is
20:30
there, but that that's like three or four episodes time You
20:34
know, obviously this is undoubtedly a set in Cardiff,
20:36
how good is that set dressing and the lighting?
20:40
Yeah, it's amazing. It's it reminds me of Punjab
20:42
when we watch that, you know, there are similar sort of sets
20:45
with lots of lighting coming in through slats.
20:48
I think the lighting in general in this version of Doctor Who
20:52
Mike the people they get in, are trying to make the show as rich
20:56
and as beautiful as they possibly can.
21:00
And I think it shows in are there isn't a bad look.
21:03
In episode in the Jodie, Whittaker era, the might be
21:05
episode. You don't like, but he, they all
21:08
look great. And you know what else is great?
21:11
I love her hair, wavy like that. Then that's an at the rain.
21:15
That's a great look on her. Yeah, I think she was great to
21:18
know what else I love. I love the way she runs.
21:21
It's like she she runs almost, you know, like they say that Tom
21:25
Baker, can't walk that trillion, things like that, it's not that
21:28
she runs a naturally but it just there's a slight weird.
21:33
Alienness to it. And I know it's not a person
21:35
purpose. Some people are just shit at
21:36
running like myself Capaldi as well.
21:40
Yeah. How's that described as a
21:44
penguin or something? Yeah, but, you know, Bigger for
21:56
a second youth. A I'll swear to God.
22:03
She's who she is having to deliver a lot of exposition in
22:05
this story, but she's just so funny with it.
22:08
Jodie Whittaker, yes, she's firing on all cylinders and what
22:12
So Gone. I know.
22:13
No, go ahead, go ahead. I insist when I was just going
22:16
to say she has to relationship, doesn't she has a relationship
22:20
with the general, which is very combative.
22:23
And then she has a very warm lovely relationship with Mary
22:26
Seacole. Yeah.
22:28
But what I was going to say, is that both her and Yaz feel like
22:34
co-leads at this point here as isn't a companion or part of an
22:37
ensemble and yaz's off having their own story elsewhere in
22:41
another plot and they're both as important as each other.
22:45
And as the story goes on, you know, we get obviously her with
22:49
Jericho and stuff like that, and going on her own adventures and
22:53
is the doctor. And he has is show that this
22:55
point. I think that's the only, you
22:58
know, it's the best relationships with the doctor
23:00
and companions where it feels like that.
23:02
Thinking of armada, I'm thinking the third doctor and Joe you
23:06
know, a lot of the new series doctors and their companions are
23:09
there, perhaps not all of them. I know I know Dan is effectively
23:14
a companion but hit done is you as His companion, he absolutely
23:19
is. Yeah.
23:20
Yeahs has been traveling through time and space and goes this
23:22
guy's. All right I'm bringing him along
23:24
and the doc goes of course because my girlfriend really
23:27
likes this guy. I think Dad spends more time
23:29
with Jericho and nose for years and he does with the Doctor.
23:33
Yeah, and there's there's your big finish box set.
23:35
I'll do you want your boy? Can we throw in that man?
23:38
Who goes um, do you as well? He's brilliant.
23:42
Just think about it for a second.
23:50
It's two women running the show. Yeah.
23:53
Absolutely. I mean when they bought back the
23:56
show was very much like rose and the doctor are going to be the
23:58
co-leads. But I think it's only at this
24:01
point that you really believe they're like all look how far
24:04
the shows come and I think it's it you do the show does wonders
24:09
for representation on many levels.
24:12
And I think it's very good at moving forward and knock staying
24:15
stuck in the past because it's the, safest version of Doctor
24:17
Who is probably David Tennant as the doctor and Here, you've got
24:24
Jodie Whittaker as this fresh new type of doctor that we
24:27
haven't seen before. I saw my favorite scenes in this
24:30
era are when you've got like, lots of women together.
24:34
So, it was like before the wedding in Demons of the Punjab
24:38
or in spiteful, where it's Jody and the two historical
24:44
characters, a lovely. And I forget the other ladies
24:47
name. Now, they're great things here.
24:50
You've got her with Mary Seacole, you know, just Lots of
24:53
fantastic women running dogs. Absolutely, and all this stuff
24:59
here. The interaction with the
25:00
sontarans. They're hilarious.
25:02
She's hilarious, but there's also, there's a tension to it as
25:04
well. You believe there's a threat
25:06
like it. The comedy doesn't doesn't take
25:10
away from the gravity or the drama of the situation with the
25:13
way he describes being hit by the cannon book.
25:15
Very complicated way and embarrass it.
25:17
I've got hit him in the back by a cannonball and showed her
25:19
whiskers. All about that, huh?
25:23
But she and why we love is it feels so dogs, like she really
25:27
understands the doctor so she knows that the playing.
25:29
She knows, if they let him out, they can follow him.
25:31
You know, she knows if she calls the fella to war then he's going
25:34
to come. And do you think the sontarans
25:39
are sort of the ultimate spoof herbal monster from classic
25:43
Doctor? Who like if someone does a spoof
25:45
of Doctor Who monsters as being a bit shit?
25:49
Do you think it's the sontarans essentially a sort of hissing
25:52
weird but I Later. Yes, I think that's what makes
25:56
this even more impressive. Yeah, I think the sequence where
26:00
wonderful seizures, he goes, well, they all saw stream
26:03
towards each other. The two forces on the
26:05
battlefield, and then it cuts Tokyo.
26:07
Proper violent action, or a bit later with a sontaran says, you
26:12
know, you got any last words will keep them to yourself and
26:15
shoots them decades, you know. Yeah.
26:17
But they come across as be really menacing.
26:19
And yeah, there are just absurd. Yeah.
26:22
Hey. That's also, I mean, you get the
26:25
thing that plays into this, they don't recognize the doctor in
26:27
this because she's a woman and it's such a, that's not really
26:30
been played out much in this era and it could have been.
26:32
But it's a real sort of mission that those sontarans almost are
26:36
like a representation of kind of the sort of simpler nature of
26:41
Doctor Who enemies that are. But it says a lot about the show
26:44
itself as well. And kind of the preconceptions
26:46
of a woman in the role of that Country Doctor here.
26:49
It's a woman and I tell you what, if you showed this to 15
26:51
year-old Dylan, Woulda jumped that can't be the doctor.
26:54
It's a woman, really? Yeah, when I was a kid, I was
26:58
not into the idea of Doctor Who being a woman.
27:02
Thank y'all for a figures in my life for women.
27:04
So I'll probably be all over this ship and actually, weirdly
27:08
when the show came back, I would buy that was talked about Judi
27:11
Dench and things like that. I was like, oh, I don't really
27:14
think I want a female doctor, and it was in during the first
27:18
season Tamsin greig appears in The long game and I suddenly
27:24
went I could imagine her playing Doctor Who and then from that
27:26
point on I've just been my I can see so many females that could
27:30
play Doctor Who including this one fantastically.
27:33
And you know is worth knowing. And I have several times that
27:37
chippers is still the only show runner brave enough to do that.
27:41
Yeah exactly and you know like I think Russell Davis with is
27:45
Savvy choice, I still kicking it for representation which you are
27:52
And just Talent as well. I would be interested to know
27:57
years later, when these things come out.
27:59
If there were any female names on any on the list, to play the
28:03
doctor at any other time before, Jodie Whittaker, as in the new
28:07
series, like when Matt Smith left it ever been, oh, it was
28:10
always going to be Peter Capaldi, but was there a short
28:12
this somewhere that had female names on it or not?
28:15
We know that When was it? I think was it after David?
28:21
Tennant, there was a black actor, offered the job, that
28:23
turned it down really well. Game and said one day, Joseph,
28:29
was it, it wasn't passing Joseph, but it was somebody of
28:33
that ilk, like, I sort of similar level actor but he
28:37
didn't want to be. Didn't want to do three years in
28:41
Cardiff, I think. I wonder how easy our audition
28:45
was. Yeah.
28:47
I bet they really, really / fruit around editions.
28:54
Yeah, they must have done. I mean, and I wonder you've got
28:57
to also because chickens pitch was always the doctor as a
29:00
woman, but you've got to wonder what other names are on that
29:02
list as well. I mean, everybody always says
29:06
Olivia Colman was on the wrist but it's not just lazy sort of
29:09
going who work with Olivia, Colman and Broadchurch.
29:13
It's enticing though, isn't it? Yeah, the could have been a week
29:17
Jody. I'll bloody Globe.
29:19
I think she was the exactly the right actress at exactly the
29:22
right time to play the role. I don't think, I don't think
29:24
there's a better choice. I think like she's a hugely
29:28
generous action as well. She doesn't mind given space to
29:31
all the other actors and I wouldn't fire that every single
29:34
actor to play the doctor jumper way.
29:36
And so they're very aware that the most important person in the
29:41
room. Yeah times.
29:45
It's so Stark. Red Lighting in this scene.
29:48
Yeah, it looks great. It looks fantastic.
29:50
I mean, they just aren't, I really hated the purple.
29:54
Look of the sontaran stratagem. I just didn't think it works and
29:57
I thought, I didn't like the blues of the sontaran and
30:01
outfits and stuff like that and I get it, you know, that was
30:04
Rusty Davis going when you're turning over from entertainment
30:06
shows on Saturday, night's, the colors need to pop, but I think
30:10
Doctor Who's escaped from that is it was like, probably join
30:12
the mafia T ra ra. And this this here?
30:15
It was definitely like no we look like high-end television
30:17
than the color palettes are suitable for the stories.
30:20
Allow be interesting to see their void else going forward.
30:25
Yeah, I mean, drag queens beautiful.
30:35
Think about the kids. Okay, what is occurring here?
30:42
Oh the parents are back. Yes, they are.
30:45
Two of the greatest short-lived characters into doctor here.
30:48
What they are willing brookey together.
30:51
Well, they, I think so. Yeah, I think this was a bit of
30:53
a brookey reunions that the two parents definitely were John.
30:57
Bishop wasn't a rookie, was it? Maybe it's a little Nipper.
31:01
Oh, nice. I've gotta say what you said
31:03
about Liverpool. I mean, I recently, I visited
31:08
New Castle and I got little very often and I've got to say, it is
31:11
absolutely stunning up in these. He's sort of major cities and
31:17
the way they make Liverpool look here with all those sontaran
31:20
ship surround the docks. Yeah, like if I was, if I was
31:24
watching a fucking Marvel movie, the shots like there's a shot,
31:29
where we go, round a crane. I don't know what shooting here
31:32
is a drone helicopter or what, but it's just different story.
31:38
Different cities have different identities and so the
31:41
architecture like I don't need to see Big Ben destroyed again.
31:45
I don't need to see the River Thames again.
31:48
Here it is. Naylor.
31:50
Oh yeah, why looks fabulous and also like I'm sort of going back
31:56
on my statement earlier of sometimes looking fantastic in
32:00
the past. They look bloody good marching
32:02
around the streets of Liverpool to just in a normal Suburban
32:06
Street. And that's that thing that
32:08
classic in the doctor who does. Well, again, it's like sontarans
32:11
walking down your street, they're not.
32:13
But, you know, it's not just the big landmarks.
32:15
It's this is happening on a road that you live on, and if you're
32:18
seven years old, It's relatable and terrifying at the same time.
32:23
I really love the fact that, you know, they've exploited the
32:28
flags. So there's massive disaster to
32:30
slipping, you know, invading the past so they're here.
32:35
It's Big Ideas is a big science fiction ideas.
32:37
Yeah, no it's a brilliant idea and it also Builds on that thing
32:41
of them loving combat. And in the RTD AA sort of not
32:45
being able to take, they weren't allowed to take part in the
32:47
time, Walker's. Actually, they're not a
32:49
fantastic, like big, I am high level bill.
32:53
The Army's, so for them to see an opportunity here and go
32:56
right. The end of the universe, I'm
32:58
having a bit of this, this is and then literally almost one
33:02
can off, overall the net. So excited, laughing their heads
33:05
off, licking the lips, but it's you've always had to see sort of
33:09
like, tears of Villas. I mean, the Daleks all, but the
33:11
top, then the sidemen, then the sontarans, the flux basically
33:15
decides. No, the sontarans are on top
33:19
this time baby because they bring in the Daleks and the
33:21
Cybermen the last episode. And then they dupe them all the
33:25
hey. Yeah, it's wonderful.
33:27
I live really love out there. And here, we are back in the key
33:32
to time, which isn't the key to time.
33:34
But I love this idea as which is played throughout the series for
33:38
Starts Here is to time as an actual Force.
33:40
Which I know it's quite a new, a new adventures thing, but I
33:43
think it's a fantastic concept that should be should be played
33:46
with a little more in Doctor Who as like time doesn't like to be
33:50
messed with and we'll fight back to us.
33:53
A really sort of unusual storytelling techniques in the
33:56
next episode which explores that you know, it's basically she
34:00
takes her Deep dive into time. Doesn't she?
34:03
And then winds up there? They're all playing characters
34:05
in each other's lives. Yeah, you know, I watched that
34:09
episode Once Upon Time a Doctor Who convention, right?
34:13
But it was run by by people that really don't like this era.
34:18
All right. And they were really sort of
34:20
down on it at the convention with their guests.
34:23
I don't think that's I don't think even if you don't like a
34:29
certain error especially the current theory.
34:30
I don't think you have a right to sort of, I'm going to throw a
34:33
doctor who an event, which is supposed to be for everyone to
34:36
sort of be down on a son, used to get it in the 80s a lot.
34:40
There's some terrible footage from Doctor Who convention in
34:43
the 80s of like analysts being asked questions and basically
34:48
been backed into a corner to slack off the current regime and
34:51
the current show I've seen some of it.
34:53
Yeah, I think Caroline Forbes talking about Nikola brats
34:58
costume and stuff like that. There's that Even Peter Davison
35:01
slugs off the Colin Baker here, a little bit of 1.2 panel and
35:05
you're like I don't think this is appropriate, then, Victor
35:08
pemberton's they're going. All the storytelling is not what
35:11
it used to be. It's like Victor Pemberton,
35:12
haven't written anything relevant for 20 years at that
35:15
point. What the fuck has he done?
35:17
You know. Stephen Gallagher's are saying
35:19
that Peter Capaldi should have had better stories and I'm going
35:21
what from the writer of bugs now, your father,
35:37
In your industry. And perhaps you're not writing
35:40
styles evolved acting Stars evolve and some point you're
35:44
just sort of aged out of a job to a certain extent.
35:47
There's still an audience for what you make.
35:49
It's just not a big isn't it's not mainstream anymore.
35:52
It drives me nuts when you see, like, Peter Purvis up again, of
35:56
course, you know, now that all the plots are too complicated
35:59
and it making the shows. Really easy.
36:01
It's not as hard as it used to be.
36:02
They should go back to multi-camera and it's like, you
36:05
just literally do not have your finger on the pulse of what is
36:08
relevant within the television industry.
36:10
Arts, are not complicated, you're just out.
36:16
But also people jump on like, BuzzFeed headlines or headlines
36:20
in general. I had this conversation with my
36:22
dad. My dad likes doctor here, and
36:24
they put something on Facebook about it.
36:26
Being too woke these days. I'm like, what, what, what?
36:29
I think about and name something.
36:30
Good. What's wrong?
36:33
Yeah. Use that word like it's a bad
36:35
thing. Yeah but I said I said to him
36:37
like what what spoke about and goes all, you know, the story of
36:40
his knee couldn't really pick out one thing.
36:42
That's just a popular work. Popular thing to say.
36:44
When you down the pub with the other people that are 70 years,
36:47
older used to like the talons at Wang qiang good old days when
36:52
the Chinese, when the Chinese were played by good traditional,
36:57
white British people. Maybe Marco Polo is best left.
37:07
It's comfortable. Its iTunes ready.
37:10
She's not really don't remember that and that Randy anniversary
37:13
the 50th Anniversary. Marco Polo's on iTunes ready to
37:16
go. It's been a long time.
37:20
Is that say now where she calls what's-his-name stack struck?
37:24
I can't remember. Now this is start with an s.
37:29
She's fabulous when he realizes, she's the doctor, she just saw
37:33
cocks her eyebrow up, you know, going back to what you were
37:39
saying earlier about the sontarans about them being sort
37:43
of inherently funny. Yeah.
37:48
Never really coming across as a particularly intimidating Force.
37:53
I think it's a lot easier and even we're going.
37:57
Oh what and what What a bold thing to do.
38:00
Strax the comedy sontaran. Yeah, but like no that's
38:05
basically links either. This is the Bold thing to do is
38:09
to take these stupid looking creatures and make a menacing
38:14
ago. I made the menacing.
38:15
Yeah I think he's clever because he does it with numbers as well.
38:19
He's got the technology and he can an Army on the screen.
38:22
Yeah and I mean like by the time you get to the Invasion of Time
38:27
the sontarans are For all the wrong reasons.
38:29
Like they're not in on the writers, aren't in on the joke
38:32
anymore. They're trying to make some sort
38:34
of a credible threat and they look silly.
38:36
They Bumble about have silly voices and they're just not.
38:40
I know that Cliffhangers great and I'm sure somebody likes the
38:43
invasion of time somewhere, but it's not.
38:47
What did it come true? That was very complimentary
38:49
there is a bit. Isn't there?
38:50
Where there's that enormous plant?
38:52
That looks very like, a vagina sontaran trip.
38:55
Straight into me. Yes.
38:57
Yeah, there's the big way. Where the sontaran it's supposed
39:00
to do that stunt and trips over a deck chair the same bit, and
39:04
then he's obviously supposed to end up in the pool and tries
39:07
really hard to roll towards it, but can't get there.
39:09
And it's just the most embarrassing bit of Television
39:12
that you've ever see could be our place in this world.
39:18
But I still love it. You know, I'll still watch
39:20
again, I get em, but it, but this sontaran on the street on,
39:24
let's just stood there on the battlefield.
39:26
It's like that's where he belongs.
39:28
And this conflict confrontation, have you ever watched two doors
39:32
down? But I'm doing a half.
39:34
What is it? Okay, it's a fabulous.
39:36
BBC comedy about these neighbors all live together so if Together
39:41
live on the same street and they all will end up around this,
39:44
poor woman's house and they nicker food and drink a drink.
39:48
This is a very sort of gentle relationship comedy with a bit
39:53
of a bike. Was one of the ones comes rather
39:55
terrible drunk and always ends up.
39:56
Embarrassing yourself ridiculous.
39:59
Anyway, one of the leads in that is the same fellow who plays the
40:05
the main sontaran in this when they told me this, because he's
40:10
so different. I don't know.
40:12
He's like, Tony can play different roles but he's so sort
40:16
of underplayed into thoughts. Declan, he Scottish is an alien.
40:20
Yeah. And so, beyond the time that
40:23
guy's and Richie, who does a podcast called, I hate Doctor
40:26
Who we're all in this bread together, where we just talk
40:29
shit about Doctor Who constantly and they to them, he's like a
40:33
figure from their childhood essentially.
40:35
He was all over Scottish television and they're like and
40:38
now he's playing a sontaran. This is the most fantastic bit
40:41
of casting ever feel like he I cuz I read an interview saying
40:44
that he loved getting his teeth into this dialogue, you know.
40:48
This versus warlord. I feel like he's been playing
40:50
these roles all his life. He had two doors down, he got
40:53
that script for warn the some time I'm there.
40:55
Let's do it. I mean, it just gives them a
41:00
chance to give a performance. You just not going to give in
41:02
any other bit of Television ever else, you get lines, like your
41:06
bodies. Will soften all steps.
41:10
Look at this Dylan, oh my God, Avast sontaran, all me.
41:15
This is, this is, you know, when you're a kid this is what You
41:18
want Doctor Who monsters to look like, I never envisaged on to
41:21
looking like this. I just wasn't in my head.
41:27
The most you were going to get, is the split screen in Earth
41:29
shock, where you've got three lines of Cybermen walking
41:32
towards. You remember that Army and State
41:34
of Decay that take on the free who roared is like 50 and older
41:38
men. Yeah it's that's about all.
41:40
You can hope for it's costly violence.
41:45
Well when we come back to the battlefield in a sec Second.
41:49
You see quiet. I thought you see about a blood
41:52
as well. It's yeah.
41:54
I think they have to in this environment, like it's a brutal
41:58
War, but it was a war that was very gory and very bloody like
42:04
it's very easy to show building's exploding.
42:07
The people being hit by laser guns but in this environment
42:11
there's going to be Blood and Guts and you know there's a
42:14
there's a there's another version of this which is proper
42:16
Cory but you just obviously can't show that on a Sunday
42:19
night. Remember you said the historical
42:23
sort of Change over time in the January and this is so different
42:28
from Punjab, isn't it? It is, which was wasn't very
42:31
pasty, but it was very thoughtful in act and and, you
42:36
know, teaching as a lot about the partition, whereas now we're
42:39
in full-on pseudo, historical territory we are, but we've also
42:43
got a modern Invasion story going on at the same time, so if
42:47
everyone can even see around with that walk as well.
42:55
So we've got that. Then we've got the far future
42:57
one. We haven't seen the weeping
42:58
angels are getting this episode and that's fine.
43:00
But it's, you know, which are we getting so much doctor here at
43:04
the same time? We have the same.
43:05
Do I God knows what punishment. She's going through at the
43:08
moment. She's in a puddle somewhere
43:10
where there's a with his you. Look at this shot now.
43:14
How are they shooting this going around the crane?
43:18
That should be, that's a drone. It's got to be a drone and
43:21
that's impressive, right? It is I mean that's almost like
43:26
the money shot because you've got the sontaran shit shit.
43:30
Shit. I don't think about something
43:33
talking shit. Oh God, no faces.
43:38
Do you think it comes out and appropriate then to like Dread
43:42
to think? Oh, here we go swarm of your
43:48
together, the two most. Fuckable Doctor Who villains?
43:53
Wow. Yeah I wouldn't say no.
43:55
And they're the most passenger who's had a lot of people inside
43:58
him. All right.
44:00
You can buy that mask on Amazon. Oh yeah, there was a whole big
44:05
thing about Doctor Who is rubbish.
44:07
Now, they've even just bought the mask off wish doc.
44:09
I think it was literally wish.com.
44:11
And I imagine what happened is, they had another mask or
44:15
something like that. It wasn't quite working and
44:17
someone had to get a new mask overnight.
44:19
And they found that on the internet and you know what?
44:20
It works, it works. Yeah, it will stay s.
44:24
Now when She destroys what they called those things floating
44:29
around. I just call the number gauri,
44:31
but they're not serving the look.
44:33
She just tries to Megara and then she sort of froze, the dust
44:36
in the air and then it cuts to the snow.
44:38
On the battlefield is such a brilliant transition from
44:42
Saints. And you know, again, we're not
44:48
really mentioning because we can't hear, but second a canola,
44:51
is he has great scores for every, every sort of part of
44:55
History, doing great work, and also that transition.
44:59
And then it's almost like, slow motion fire.
45:01
It's amazing. Also passenger, like people talk
45:05
about, you can get that mask in real life.
45:07
I mean, I remember watching the caves of androzani as a kid and
45:10
going the president guy is holding my Nan's TV remote
45:13
control with his house. Yeah, I've seen a few people
45:19
down lift shaft. The the armor of the sontarans a
45:28
sub s is literally so I never liked that blue armor but it
45:32
looks fantastic here. I did to be honest, I don't
45:37
think the sontarans of look particularly great, since since
45:41
the time worry. I think they look fantastic in
45:43
the time. Or are you just getting worse
45:45
and worse? And then we go along.
45:46
Oh of diminishing returns with the sontarans until now.
45:50
Yeah. But you know, where I do for the
45:52
sontarans. Look, great is in mind game and
45:55
Mind Game trilogy. Well, I've never seen it, but I
46:01
gotta be BV spectacular. No, that's a real time one.
46:04
Actually, I'll be these rival. Yeah, exactly.
46:07
But and I've always liked that shape down design as well, but
46:11
it's nothing on this. The the general, you know, the
46:16
basic the the other villain of the piece.
46:19
Yeah it's just nothing. Redeemable by him is there?
46:23
No, there are totally utterly monstrous and vial is a little
46:28
bit sexist. He's a bit cowardly of.
46:32
We got past the pit where she does the little pep talk about
46:35
this and she got a drawing of the sontaran.
46:37
Another point is we got past that bit know what we must have.
46:43
All right, but I do think like the general that is just as much
46:47
as a threat to this version of the doctor or thinks he is
46:50
because she's a woman. But as the sontarans are like,
46:54
neither side are taking her seriously, until they know she's
46:59
the doctor. I love this catapult.
47:00
See that is pure doctor, isn't it?
47:03
Yeah, I know the Joy on it. It's what she gets it first
47:08
time. Everyone's getting good comedy
47:12
dad when he goes sir. All right.
47:13
Let's do you know the way to the pier?
47:16
Did he gets the joke from the sontaran stratagem about?
47:22
Oh three fingers. That is a good joke as worth
47:27
doing twice. It is but I also like I believe
47:31
Dan as he wanders through this spaceship he's completely out of
47:34
his depth but is responding like a normal human being would with
47:39
just kind of He's brave enough and scared enough and finds it
47:42
all, so ridiculous, but is terrified.
47:46
It's reaction when calvinistic comes on, let's go.
47:50
That's a real punch the air moment because you really think
47:53
he's gonna dial that point. Yeah, Mary Seacole gets great
47:57
line here as well. And she goes.
47:59
Hello, dear, I don't understand what's going on.
48:03
I love that. I left after fighting this
48:08
battle out of a two time zones as well with the sontarans.
48:11
It's just any one of these stories is filled with enough
48:15
concepts for it. Entire series of Doctor Who.
48:18
Yeah, I feel like flux is Chip Knowles A source tab at doing
48:26
Moffitt. It's it's very interwoven is
48:30
very complex. There's a ton of ideas in it.
48:33
Yeah. And he's doing it is a way
48:36
because of it, but that style of Storytelling that dense style of
48:41
Storytelling. But as I was saying last episode
48:44
like it's, it's Chris, chibnall Doctor Who from the point of
48:48
view of him being Showrunner telling the whole story rather
48:52
than telling a bunch of individual stories.
48:54
Like, it's, it's the like we've not seen either of the two
48:59
showrunners. Do this much Doctor, Who in such
49:02
a condensed period of time. Like, I'd love to see a six-part
49:06
Moffat or a six-part RTD Doctor, Who story.
49:08
But I don't know whether we ever will my theory.
49:11
Well I mean I think the closest we saw was serious six, wasn't
49:15
it? Yeah, it was so much sort of
49:16
individual storytelling going on there as well.
49:20
Series 6 does what series 12 does which is the showrunners
49:25
decided the story. They want to tell over five or
49:28
six episodes, and then realizes they've got a slot in a bunch of
49:31
other episodes in between. And I think perhaps those are
49:34
the stories that suffer because everybody just wants that almost
49:37
that condensed version of five or six episodes.
49:41
I think it doesn't 60. I don't think it doesn't 12.
49:43
I think 12 got pretty good, hit rate overall but no, I agree.
49:48
But you know what? I know have a lot of got two
49:50
fans, don't particularly Love That season, but I do all 10
49:53
episodes for me a fucking corkers nothing I love.
49:57
Are you Champion the underdog? You know, you and Fraser Gregory
50:00
should get married live on this podcast.
50:05
I'll be the register all over. Here we go.
50:09
You're right me some Tower and he's brilliant.
50:18
You know what I was when I was watching the special features on
50:21
the Blu-ray, the bit, you know, where they're going down the
50:24
tubes, him and carp, mr. They've just got a tube on the
50:27
ground. They're pulling him alone on the
50:28
skateboard. It's so funny.
50:31
Even if it works, it works, you know?
50:33
It looks great. Yeah.
50:35
Rose being pulled into the dark, the rift and doomsday is her on
50:39
an office chair, isn't it? I'll try not to think about
50:44
either my old a lot of thing on. Yes, his hand.
50:48
What would the doctor do? Yeah, and the way they mock it
50:52
as well. These guys look, so, bloody
50:57
menacing walking down those steps.
50:59
They also look their heads look like bath bombs.
51:01
Don't know what I love about bomb.
51:04
What you call owning a room though.
51:06
Innit. Yeah, that they are.
51:09
When they start anticipating where he's going to be shooting
51:12
and they do. And I remember this point, I was
51:14
just like, wow, there's so much going on.
51:15
There's so much great stuff going on.
51:17
I quiet. Can't handle it, but they are
51:20
over the top and I think that rub some people the wrong way,
51:24
but the best villains. Always.
51:25
Ways on yeah, a big Camp over-the-top villains.
51:28
But, but pitched, right? It's not over-the-top done
51:32
badly, it's, you know, it's it's Paul Darrow in Blake's. 7 as
51:37
opposed to time lash I'm gonna call Imagine jinkx Monsoon is
51:40
going to underplay it anyone who doesn't like that sort of thing.
51:45
I'll suggest you don't watch the next year.
51:47
But then I think you look at the big bads of Doctor Who and I
51:51
mean, look at especially the master and the the modern series
51:54
and most of the classic So there's a big company but you
51:57
still get the threat. You must have my favorites.
52:01
Professors are off lady Ad, Astra Soul deed and the Rani.
52:06
Yeah, yeah, I think I've got time.
52:10
I mean, even when you look at Harrison Chase, I mean everybody
52:14
talks to the sea to the sea, to do markets this, the greatest
52:16
bit of Television ever made and it is great.
52:18
But my God that's an over the top Camp performance.
52:21
If ever there was one delenn I can play all day in your green,
52:25
Cathedral Paris and Chase would hate me because I have a track
52:32
record of managing to kill plants in record.
52:34
Timing me to lie to you. I've just plotted some new ones.
52:38
Hey, I hope I think Also here we've got vinda and yeas tear it
52:46
up as well. Don't we?
52:48
I wondered for a second. There was going to be a bit of
52:49
Romance when I first watched this.
52:51
I didn't realize there was a love story playing out this
52:54
season as well. That love story where everybody
52:57
was like oh my God the baby is going to be the doctor.
52:59
There's no point where I was like that's going to be a thing
53:03
you know I do Wonder now. Do you can tell me if I'm wrong
53:06
here but I do wonder if that sort of Arc based OCH based cult
53:12
TV as spoil the experience for some people because they're
53:16
always looking for those big twists all the time, you know,
53:20
or deep dives into the past of the show and stuff.
53:23
Like this, all shocked endings, just stop like, just just watch
53:30
the bloody thing and it's almost like you're never going to be
53:34
happy unless it's your own, the theory that you've got in your
53:37
head makes it right? So if you I want that house to
53:40
be long Barrow, you're always going to be disappointed if you
53:43
want. The, although the weird thing
53:46
about the bell and vendor and it possibly being the, the child
53:50
being the doctor that was almost the not the, right?
53:54
The fans, that who, weren't fans of that year ago.
53:56
No, that's exactly the sort of twist.
53:57
They do this era and no, it's not.
54:01
It just never was gonna be and I do think chibnall trolls those
54:06
fans at the beginning of power of the doctor with the child.
54:10
And I think everybody's Mentor think it's all right
54:26
and then bringing in the watching this season I don't I
54:30
don't know, just going like what like a why I'm actually it's
54:33
just that. See the thing is it had some
54:36
mystery to the doctors past. I don't think.
54:39
I do think the Masters and unreliable narrator to a certain
54:43
extent. We now that we know the doctor
54:45
work for the division, we know that they had, there was pretty
54:48
Hartnell doctors which I think most sensible fans because I
54:51
love always assumed there was and then like but actually doing
54:56
anything to the the lawn the Mythos of Doctor Who have.
54:58
No, it's just another element of mystery to the character and I
55:02
think this season so our answer would have been satisfying
55:05
exactly like you either, give everything away and it's sort of
55:08
spoiled. But also, like the mystery of
55:11
who the doctor is a sort of been answered throughout the mafia.
55:13
Sarah, it may not be that I lived in this house and I went
55:17
to this school did that, but if you don't get much more of a
55:19
deeper dive into the doctors past than the mafia era.
55:22
Yeah. Do that.
55:24
That barn and all that are under the bed and all that nonsense.
55:30
I want to see him as a little boy.
55:32
Come on. Keep the mystery going to be
55:35
nice. He's a fabulous.
55:36
Pep talk. Seems she's got the pointy stick
55:38
and she goes to him. Put your hands on your head.
55:40
Oh no, don't do that. And you don't embarrass and some
55:43
sort of plays with his hair doesn't.
55:45
She's amazing in this and again like you telling me this isn't
55:50
big doctor energy. We've already had we've already
55:54
had that fabulous, languages screaming, this heart is the
55:58
brilliant bit with a catapult. The bit where she scored a
56:01
squared up with this, on time, on the battlefield, we've got
56:04
her reaction to the destruction of the sometimes ships to come.
56:07
I mean, this is just gold all of this for the doctor.
56:11
And also like I think this if you really are a naysayer,
56:15
anybody who says the best episodes of Jody's era, she gets
56:19
a best writing when someone else's writing and we just
56:21
simply He isn't true but this just show them this and go you
56:24
tell me Chris, chibnall is not writing a fantastic person of
56:26
the doctor here. I, you know, I remember what
56:29
even the Daleks came out and every, all those naysayers being
56:32
really, surprisingly impressed. Yeah, we've won the right and of
56:36
it and how good she was in there.
56:40
But I see it's all here. Otherwise, why just think she's
56:44
got nothing to prove anymore? She owns the role.
56:48
She's owned it for three seasons and she she is. just this, if
56:53
this is her at the peak of her powers, do you think?
57:00
The exploration of Mary Seacole in the sort of skewered History
57:06
works as well, as, you know, some of the old other.
57:09
His celebrity struggles that we've had, I think given the
57:12
nature of the storytelling here. I think she plays second fiddle
57:16
a little bit, but you get enough of her.
57:18
She's that she's involved. And I think it's telling that
57:21
this out, this is an hour-long episode that they felt like they
57:24
couldn't cut it down to those 50 minutes.
57:26
So, no, but you know, It is stories bigger than her.
57:31
It's not the Mary Seacole episode.
57:33
She's another character and an important character in history,
57:37
but hopefully some people go. I'd never heard of her and look
57:39
into her and find out what an amazing person she was.
57:42
I don't know if this is how this would have all materialized in
57:46
the temple season. No, I think you would have been
57:49
a Mary Seacole episode when they're.
57:52
Yeah. I mean that's true even said in
57:55
his Gallifrey one interview there isn't like an original
57:58
version of this. No, they were.
58:02
It's not flocks told over ten Parts, it's very much.
58:06
A necessity of the times. We were living in that, this
58:08
story exists, but certainly, there were ideas, they're like
58:13
you say, I've got no doubt, we would have got a version of
58:16
this, very probably Mary Seacole and some tar and seeing them the
58:19
village of angels, would probably been pretty much the
58:21
same and I guess probably the 10-part version.
58:25
Some of the stuff you get in the finale of this or, you know, the
58:28
stuff protect her. I even would have played into
58:30
the finale but I don't think it would have been this.
58:32
A flux probably would have sort of played out slower in the
58:36
first couple of episodes that there's something coming.
58:39
Something's destroying the universe and something like that
58:42
and you learn about it over the course of several episodes.
58:45
And then but this this just dials out to 11 and cuts out all
58:49
the faff. There's there is no treading
58:51
water at any point in any of these episodes.
58:55
Now, it's kind of always sprinting, isn't it?
58:57
And I I would understand if I found that a bit exhausting.
59:01
Yeah, but I just love the ride. Yeah.
59:04
And also what I've heard about you but I The bits that don't
59:12
stand up under scrutiny. I think it's going so fast, but
59:15
if you're just a casual viewer naught RC watching 47 times a by
59:19
casual viewer, I need someone to tune in every week but probably
59:22
doesn't get Doctor Who magazine or record hours and hours of
59:25
podcasts about it. But we saying I'm saying extra
59:31
extra. No, I wouldn't
59:48
Wrapped up in the way, I want it to be.
59:51
Yeah. And, you know, he does pull that
59:52
wonderful trick, which I think Steven Moffat is quite well as
59:55
well. Which was, you know, even if the
59:57
episode was dreary, you give them a great Cliffhanger at the
59:59
end. That's what it kind of way we
1:00:01
have going. Well, that was amazing.
1:00:02
Yeah. All of those Cliffhangers are
1:00:06
big kind of earth-shattering Cliffhangers.
1:00:09
Hmm I love. I love the cheapness of the
1:00:13
second finger because it could've been done in the
1:00:15
classic series time being represented by these women with
1:00:20
the In there and just a finger click.
1:00:23
Yeah. So goodbye, a countdown
1:00:27
Chuckles. Be watching is Terry Nation.
1:00:29
You know. That's the countdown.
1:00:32
I'm not about to go down the tube and calvinistic goes oh let
1:00:37
it go watch the special effects as that space is.
1:00:42
I also carve Edisto got a bit slagged off as being a bit of a
1:00:47
ship mask but I think it's really expressive.
1:00:49
He looks like a fucking dog. But what else you wanted to look
1:00:53
like? He looks like a dog.
1:00:54
If it were coming to the conclusion.
1:00:56
That he booked never wins about anything.
1:00:59
Yeah, it's true. It's true.
1:01:00
But they all do this, this money shot here.
1:01:03
This is the way they fall out the spaceship as well.
1:01:09
I'm gonna go this is this this this is the best moment in the
1:01:19
episode and so many good bits. But the bit where is like I want
1:01:22
to disabuse you of that idea and then sets the and let the camera
1:01:27
follows the flame going along there.
1:01:29
You know people talk about Doctor Who have a Disney money.
1:01:33
It only looks like it's got Disney money here.
1:01:35
Yeah I agree in the more impressive shots.
1:01:38
Yeah he does I look watch as the ship's explode and their
1:01:42
silhouetted against it falling. Ice pick.
1:01:53
So people say that there's nothing Beyond Jodi whiskers
1:01:55
eyes. Look at the fire in her eyes in.
1:01:59
Look. Look how far we've come from
1:02:01
Rose. When they tried to blow up that
1:02:03
apart department store, and it looked like the worst thing
1:02:07
you've ever seen in your life. Yeah, that terrible.
1:02:10
The explosions that were going off when they went underground
1:02:12
as well. But, you know, let's not
1:02:16
complain. It was a long time ago.
1:02:18
There's a long time ago, but I've got to be honest with you,
1:02:20
I always felt Rose looked a bit ropey at the time, I wasn't
1:02:25
instantly in love with it. The way a lot of people were by
1:02:27
the time I got to the end of the world, I was in love with it.
1:02:30
But Rosa be the same person I was exact, I was very
1:02:33
underwhelmed by Rose and I've just fell head over heels for
1:02:37
the end of the world. Now I'm going to you saying it
1:02:40
with the same person. I was just into one of your
1:02:42
podcast the other day and you said you got into Doctor Who
1:02:45
with Battlefield episode 2? That's right.
1:02:48
Yeah. All right, well, I got into
1:02:49
Doctor Who the week before. You were back with another
1:02:51
episode 1. That's the first time we ever
1:02:53
sort on. We need to compare notes.
1:02:57
I haven't slept with a Colombian called a, no, no.
1:02:59
Okay. All right.
1:03:03
It's very pretty. And I think laughing.
1:03:07
I'm not saying I haven't. No, no.
1:03:09
You probably have he put it about?
1:03:13
We'll talk. And I love this, this weird and
1:03:18
easy friendship has formed between Dan and covid Easter as
1:03:21
well. Yeah, I would like to have seen
1:03:24
in back in power of the dark side just for us saying me too.
1:03:27
I take him over. Then do as much as I love Linda.
1:03:29
I don't like carpet Easter would have been a more.
1:03:33
Welcome. I don't think I know why he was
1:03:36
there, but I just don't think he needed to show up it.
1:03:38
Is it because Jack was supposed to be in there?
1:03:41
I don't mean I don't know whether it was supposed to be
1:03:43
Jack. I just think it's more chibnall
1:03:44
trying to wrap up all the big elements I think.
1:03:46
Think, by the time you get to the power of the doctor, there's
1:03:48
never a point where Captain Jack was going to appear, but who
1:03:52
knows? Now he's a wet dog.
1:03:56
Yeah, in Egypt. He does that little Shake
1:03:59
earlier this plot.
1:04:11
Come on. We're off to at repulse to join
1:04:13
that. Now, the Jack stuff that could
1:04:18
it, there was it tie-in. Comic series to flux, the
1:04:21
featured Captain Jack, that was canceled.
1:04:23
So, mmm, whether or not Jack was supposed to appear this later
1:04:28
on, but I certainly, the he was seen as part of this era one way
1:04:33
or another. Most kind of our this has seven
1:04:37
and wobbly here. Yeah, all the time is it because
1:04:39
the Tardis can't go to. Our proposal is not supposed to
1:04:41
do, I think so that I could be wrong, but I swear in a previous
1:04:46
shot, just at when things were going a bit blurry in the
1:04:48
Tardis. You can see a boom mic being
1:04:50
held in too shy. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll look
1:04:53
again later, but I never know if I was, you know, people tell me
1:04:56
that was I'm with, as he booms and things like that and it
1:04:59
still, it still happens in modern television, like it's not
1:05:03
just old doctor who it is. Hey, my friends were that
1:05:06
Starbucks cup, remember that? Yeah, I do I do and there's a
1:05:10
very famous Hollywood film which whose name I can't remember of
1:05:14
that. There's a tracking shot.
1:05:16
That literally ends on the guy holding the boom.
1:05:18
I could make him feel it in the film.
1:05:22
Oh wonderful I can I'd rather warms my heart, you know so
1:05:25
these things still happen and still make it in.
1:05:29
Exactly this has got so much charge this thing.
1:05:37
It's been a long time. I love this idea of an enemy.
1:05:42
That knows the doctor so. Well, it's a greatest enemy and
1:05:45
she's not, she just doesn't know who it is.
1:05:48
She's just like it's another threat and I will fight it.
1:05:51
And that's, that's what's great in Once Upon Time.
1:05:54
Then we realize if that's all the backstory hits for vinda or
1:06:00
for the Roof Doctor, you know, me, then the first time, it's a
1:06:04
really clever way. Of doing it.
1:06:06
Chip has said, this is the only time I could sort of tell this
1:06:09
kind of story with this narrative when time is basically
1:06:12
Fox at the end of this time is for this is confusing.
1:06:19
I find it confusing at all. If I have one criticism of the
1:06:24
next episode. So I'll save to the next
1:06:27
episode. Cliff anger.
1:06:31
I just hear how Camp is being now.
1:06:33
Time is beginning to run. Whiles either way clicks, his
1:06:40
fingers is hope to be as campers swarm.
1:06:44
You know, I love his big shoulder pads.
1:06:48
Like his pointy shoulder pads, like available fucking brilliant
1:06:51
and she looks great in this. Make up for all that.
1:06:53
Wasn't she with all the writing down our faith?
1:06:56
So is the idea that these cause you call them time harridans or
1:07:00
whatever. That's also one calls them but
1:07:03
they basically they are responsible.
1:07:05
For linear time in our universe. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
1:07:08
Otherwise want it would always unwise lasts, you know like a
1:07:13
big jigsaw puzzle in the air and suppose in many ways is the key
1:07:17
to time, isn't it bike? It's restoring the nature of but
1:07:22
I think it manages this Quest at such a more interesting way than
1:07:27
Those episodes do are The Parting line all in good time.
1:07:31
That is quality and the fact it ends on the snap of the fingers.
1:07:37
So you like, well, how far she gonna get this?
1:07:39
He's done it. It's brilliant.
1:07:41
Such a good quick finger. That is, it's like the budget
1:07:44
saving Cliffhanger, but it just works fantastically.
1:07:49
I wish that first episode. And remember I said that the
1:07:52
sort of massive reaction to all the characters come along at the
1:07:54
end story and Being excited. I watch this episode and I came
1:08:01
away. I remember like messaging
1:08:03
friends and think that's like this is ask the best Doctor Who
1:08:06
episode I've seen in donkey's years like that is And this next
1:08:12
time trailer just it's a very clever way of telling an epic
1:08:18
story but in a very contained Production Way when you when you
1:08:21
think of all these characters and in up talking about that
1:08:24
first Cliffhanger again, you get that amazing music and all the
1:08:29
stories and characters lining up ready to go on this big
1:08:32
adventure. This is the simple thing to do
1:08:35
like almost the safe thing to do would be for all of those
1:08:38
characters to be people we already know but Or invested
1:08:41
enough in the characters as presented in episode 1.
1:08:44
But you do know, I want to follow their Journey so it's not
1:08:47
Jack and Yaz and Ace and you know, Kate Stewart, It's a bunch
1:08:52
of people. We don't know but we know enough
1:08:54
about them and we want to get to know them.
1:08:56
Here we are and I think he does it.
1:08:57
He does that empower the dog sir.
1:08:59
But there's no, that's a very different.
1:09:01
It's a celebration of the entire show.
1:09:04
Yeah, exactly. So it's it calls for it there.
1:09:08
But Dr. Who fans being Doctor Who fans?
1:09:11
Those familiar characters of that nostalgic again and again
1:09:14
but it takes a character who understands narrative and the
1:09:19
television landscape to go. No, I could tell good enough
1:09:22
stories with brand new characters and not just our
1:09:25
needs. I think the last time we did
1:09:27
this so in the first time we did that in the big we are
1:09:30
introducing like a tonic characters and having loads of
1:09:33
plots going on, it was exactly that it was a stolen Earth,
1:09:36
Journey's End and they were all characters.
1:09:38
We knew and loved. Yeah and it was the safest way
1:09:40
of Doing it. Also the most excited way
1:09:42
because we bring all those characters together was just
1:09:45
terrific. I mean, the time after that was
1:09:47
a good man. Goes to war, they started
1:09:50
amassing all those characters together, and I think that was
1:09:54
slightly less successful, but it's almost like a way in for
1:09:58
those characters and then we explore them all later.
1:10:01
Don't worry in? Yeah, in various episodes, it's
1:10:05
the best way to do it. You got six hours to play with,
1:10:08
I know, and we've already done two of them.
1:10:13
What excitement is coming up? Next, we'll find out upon time
1:10:19
and in the village of the Angels, very exciting.
1:10:22
I can't wait, I think this is just doing these first two
1:10:26
episodes. I'm just as excited as the first
1:10:28
time I watched them. I think they've aged
1:10:30
fantastically and I can't wait to get through them all.
1:10:35
Well, let you send about at the beginning of this episode, this
1:10:37
was a massive loving because I think this is It's not floor.
1:10:41
Less that I could probably pick it apart.
1:10:42
If I wanted to, as a televisual experience, I think it is top
1:10:47
drawer. Oh, me, too.
1:10:50
I think there's far more time picking Once Upon Time and some
1:10:54
of the episodes coming up, so we got some great talking points
1:10:56
coming up. But Dylan, we're not going to do
1:10:58
that tonight because it's 10:56. It's 11:45 where I am.
1:11:03
My God drinking wines and you got to work but later Mora will
1:11:08
reconvene soon very soon. This has been fantastic.
1:11:13
Thank you very much, thank you. See you, I'm time be on time.