Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / APPEA Chief Executive Andrew McConville says there is scientific evidence that supports fracking in the Betaloo Basin

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APPEA Chief Executive Andrew McConville says there is scientific evidence that supports fracking in the Betaloo Basin · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're listening to the show a little bit
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: earlier today, you would have heard Angus Taylor, the Federal
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: minister who had joined us to let us know about
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: this announcement that had been made a bit earlier this morning.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I believe that.
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  Speaker 1: They'd made that announcement in Gladstone. So essentially there is
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: going to be a feasibility study for the Northern Territory.
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  Speaker 1: The way that it works, all the way that it's
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: going to impact us is here in the Northern Territory.
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  Speaker 1: It's a feasibility study into the most efficient infrastructure to
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  Speaker 1: deliver natural gas from the Beaterloo sub basin to the
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  Speaker 1: East Coast gas market. There's also a feasibility study on
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  Speaker 1: options for CO two pipelines between the Beaterloo and Middle
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  Speaker 1: arm and Darwin region. So there is a lot happening
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  Speaker 1: in this space. But we also know that today there
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  Speaker 1: is this public hearing which is happening into the Federal
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  Speaker 1: government's decision as part of the Senate inquiry to oil
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  Speaker 1: and gas production in the Beaterloo Basin to grant money
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  Speaker 1: to oil and gas companies.
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  Speaker 2: Now joining me.
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  Speaker 1: In the studio to talk a little bit more about
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  Speaker 1: both of these both of these things. Is the APA
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  Speaker 1: Chief Executive Andrew McConville. Good morning to you, Andrew.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie Andrew.
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  Speaker 1: Firstly, we do know that this announcement was made by
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  Speaker 1: the federal minister this morning around these feasibility studies. What
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  Speaker 1: do you think that that means for the territory.
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  Speaker 4: What it's doing is looking at how the potential of
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  Speaker 4: gas development here in the territory is through the Bealoo Basin,
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  Speaker 4: so that onshore development, is there the capacity for some
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  Speaker 4: of that gas to flow east. When we look forward
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  Speaker 4: several years into the East Coast, as we see decline
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  Speaker 4: in production and the likes of bas Strait, we're going
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  Speaker 4: to need to continue to get gas to drive and
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  Speaker 4: drive the economy over there, to drive the manufacturing sector.
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  Speaker 4: And so there is a real opportunity or potential opportunity
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  Speaker 4: for the gas that could be produced here in the
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  Speaker 4: bedalou to flow east. So that's what the government is
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  Speaker 4: really looking at to make sure that there's that continuity
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  Speaker 4: of supply, keep downward pressure on price, and keep manufacturing
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  Speaker 4: coming on the East Coast.
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  Speaker 1: And then it's not only I suppose about the East Coast.
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  Speaker 1: Even with that pipeline as well or the feasibility into
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  Speaker 1: East Arm and from what Angus Taylor had said on
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  Speaker 1: the show a bit earlier, it's about also keeping it
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  Speaker 1: in the territory too for manufacturing. Is that something from
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  Speaker 1: APIs perspective you see happening?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Kdi, one hundred percent.
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  Speaker 4: You know, what we would love to see is the
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  Speaker 4: development of the industry here in the territory for the
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  Speaker 4: territory and the government, both federal and state, have expressed
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  Speaker 4: an intention to that continued development of Middle Arm and
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  Speaker 4: so being able to move gash from the Beaterloo basin
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  Speaker 4: when it reaches production up here to support manufacturing would
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  Speaker 4: be a great outcome for the territory. And similarly also
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  Speaker 4: looking at the opportunities to move carbon as well, so
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  Speaker 4: when we store carbon, you know, that could be an
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  Speaker 4: opportunity as well. So I do think that it's very
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  Speaker 4: important that the economic opportunities that are generated here in
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  Speaker 4: the territory are available to territorians.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it seems as though it's you know, in
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  Speaker 1: some ways there are a lot of Territorians who see
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  Speaker 1: this as being potentially a really good thing ie jobs
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  Speaker 1: for territorians and that development for the Northern Territory. There
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: are others who still incredibly concerned about the environmental impacts.
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  Speaker 2: And I know that today there is this public hearing.
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  Speaker 1: Which is happening looking into the federal government's decision as
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  Speaker 1: part of that Senate inquiry to oil and gas production
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  Speaker 1: in the Beterloo Basin, to grant money to oil and
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  Speaker 1: gas companies. You have just spoken as I understand that
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  Speaker 1: that Senate inquiry, haven't you?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, I have you?
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  Speaker 1: Now why was this money or why should this money
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  Speaker 1: be granted to oil and gas companies?
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  Speaker 3: Well, look at me.
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  Speaker 4: You know, at the end of the day, governments will
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  Speaker 4: decide where they want to allocate their funds. That's the
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  Speaker 4: role and purpose of government. What I believe the government
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  Speaker 4: is trying to do is to look at how the
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  Speaker 4: development of the be Toloo Basin, you know, which could
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  Speaker 4: be a significant oil and gas resource, can be facilitated
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  Speaker 4: and perhaps sped up. And look, it's not uncommon for
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  Speaker 4: governments to do this sort of thing. I mean we
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  Speaker 4: see it with the Pace program in South Australia for example.
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  Speaker 4: Now that was that was a similar sum of money
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  Speaker 4: over twenty seventeen to nineteen, and that generated a direct
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  Speaker 4: economic benefit of two hundred and forty three million dollars
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  Speaker 4: five to one return, which I reckon is a pretty
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  Speaker 4: good outcome. So it's about how can you step in
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  Speaker 4: and facilitate and speed up development. It's very important in
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  Speaker 4: that early stage to help with offsetting risk and looking
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  Speaker 4: at how we can continue that exploration where ultimately we
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  Speaker 4: want to get to commercial production. But that's the will
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  Speaker 4: and want of governments, and companies can decide to or
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  Speaker 4: not to seek to access that money, but it's not
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  Speaker 4: an uncommon process for governments to engage in a normal
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  Speaker 4: commercial practice.
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  Speaker 1: Look, I know that there'll certainly be people listening this morning.
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  Speaker 1: He'll be thinking if this fracking of the b Loo
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  Speaker 1: is profitable, if it's a profitable venture, why do you
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  Speaker 1: need this federal government funding.
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  Speaker 4: Well, look, I think right now we're in explorations, so
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  Speaker 4: there's a lot that has to happen before we would
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  Speaker 4: get to production and indeed profitable production.
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  Speaker 3: And that's quite a way off.
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  Speaker 4: You know, we're really at the moment trying to establish
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  Speaker 4: the nature of the size and the scope of the resource.
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  Speaker 4: And what the Federal album and has recognized is that
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  Speaker 4: that's a difficult process and so they're wanting to do
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  Speaker 4: what they can to help speed that up. But you know,
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  Speaker 4: there's no guarantees in life, and there's certainly no guarantees
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  Speaker 4: in oil and gas exploration. I can tell you it
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  Speaker 4: as to whether this will ultimately be commercial and profitable,
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  Speaker 4: So you know, it's speculation to suggest that that might
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  Speaker 4: be the case. What the government is trying to do,
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  Speaker 4: I believe, is take some real action now to try
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  Speaker 4: and help at least support and speed up that exploration process.
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  Speaker 1: And Andrew, we know that there are people who are
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  Speaker 1: still seriously concerned about the environmental impacts when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to fracking in the bet Loo Basin. Have the oil
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  Speaker 1: and gas companies that are working in the Bee Lou
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  Speaker 1: Basin have they really well consulted with the community, particularly
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  Speaker 1: traditional owners and those that live in the area, to
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  Speaker 1: the degree that they.
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  Speaker 4: Should be well, Look, there is a regulatory framework that
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  Speaker 4: sits around all of that, Katie, to make sure that
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  Speaker 4: that happens, and no exploration or no if we get
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  Speaker 4: to production can occur without the consent of the traditional
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  Speaker 4: owners of that land and also of the pastor us.
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  Speaker 4: And that's a very important point to remember. This cannot
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  Speaker 4: happen without the consent of those groups. In addition with
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  Speaker 4: traditional owners, there is of course the whole native title
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  Speaker 4: legislative framework that also sits around this. And what we've
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  Speaker 4: seen with the development of unconventional gas in Australia is
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  Speaker 4: that's been going on for wilder than I am.
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  Speaker 3: I won't give away my age, but.
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  Speaker 4: It's almost sixty years and it's been also done around
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  Speaker 4: the world the more than six million unconventional wells around
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  Speaker 4: the world. So this is a process that has been
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  Speaker 4: very tried and very tested, and I think here in
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  Speaker 4: the territory as territories, you can take every confidence that
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  Speaker 4: the environmental frameworks put around this and the analysis that's
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  Speaker 4: been done can give you confidence that's going to be
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  Speaker 4: done safely. We've had fourteen scientific, independent scientific reviews to
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  Speaker 4: look at the safety of undertaking this work. And at
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  Speaker 4: some point you can continue to have a philosophical objection.
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  Speaker 4: And I get that people are passionate about this stuff.
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  Speaker 4: I get it, I really do. But at some point
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  Speaker 4: you've got to decide whether to say yay or ny
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  Speaker 4: And if you say yay, then you've got to come
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  Speaker 4: back to the facts.
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  Speaker 3: And the facts are the facts.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I guess Like I said earlier, I know that
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  Speaker 1: there will be some people listening who are totally against
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  Speaker 1: this happening.
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  Speaker 2: There will be others who.
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  Speaker 1: Are listening who are thinking to themselves. I thought that
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  Speaker 1: there was gas already flowing out of Beaterloo.
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  Speaker 2: Where are things at right now?
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  Speaker 3: Well, look, it is very early stages, Kadie.
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  Speaker 4: There's been you know, there was a significant pause and
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  Speaker 4: moratorium while the Pepper Review was conducted and production so
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  Speaker 4: not exploration, but production of oil and gas can't be
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  Speaker 4: undertaken until all one hundred and thirty five recommendations have
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  Speaker 4: been implemented. And whilst progress is being made, it's difficult
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  Speaker 4: and it's slow, and you know we're not even halfway
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  Speaker 4: through that, so we're still some way away, and it's
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  Speaker 4: you know, it's a difficult place to develop gas and
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  Speaker 4: we think that the resource there is significant, but it
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  Speaker 4: takes time and it takes money, and so you know,
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  Speaker 4: we're still some years away from looking at commercial production.
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  Speaker 4: Now that's different to what we've got offshore with Impects
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  Speaker 4: and Santos and others, and yet lots of gas going there.
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  Speaker 4: But on shore in the b Tloo, we're still a
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  Speaker 4: while away, very much in the exploration phase right now.
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  Speaker 1: I mean taking that into account and how far away
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  Speaker 1: we still are, is it still.
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  Speaker 2: Going to be viable?
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  Speaker 4: Well, certainly, we hope so. And I think that's what
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  Speaker 4: the federal government sees in terms of what it's trying
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  Speaker 4: to do with looking at the feasibility of infrastructure and
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  Speaker 4: supporting the development of infrastructure for the industry and our
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  Speaker 4: my members are very keen. There's four companies at the
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  Speaker 4: moment who are undertaking exploration and you know they're very
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  Speaker 4: committed to doing that, but they will do so, you know,
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  Speaker 4: cautiously and in accordance with all of the environmental requirements
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  Speaker 4: that have been set down as part of this process.
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  Speaker 4: So we have to work through that. It takes time,
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  Speaker 4: it takes money, and you know, we want to do
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  Speaker 4: it right.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 1: APA Chief Executive Andrew McConville, we really appreciate your time
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  Speaker 1: this morning.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming in and chatting with us.
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  Speaker 3: Absolute pleasure, Katie, anytime.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.