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Happiness vs. Meaning: What Truly Leads to a Fulfilling Life? · Deep Thoughts

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  Speaker 2: Ever find yourself like debating in your head between you know,
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  Speaker 2: doing something fun, like just for the heck of it,
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  Speaker 2: and then there's that other thing, you know, that thing
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  Speaker 2: that feels really important.
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  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally.
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  Speaker 2: Like maybe it's choosing between a weekend you know, just
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  Speaker 2: getting away with friends or finally, like actually committing and
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  Speaker 2: tackling that volunteer project you've been putting off.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good example.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So today we're kind of we're diving into this
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  Speaker 2: whole thing happiness versus meaning, you know, the big way.
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  Speaker 2: It is a big one. And we've got this article
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  Speaker 2: from the Greater Good Science Center that's called is a
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  Speaker 2: Happy Life Different from a Meaningful One?
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  Speaker 3: I like that title?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is. It's really interesting. It like uncovers
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  Speaker 2: these surprising differences that I think a lot of us
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  Speaker 2: just kind of lump together.
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  Speaker 3: You know what I mean, right, Like we assume they're
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  Speaker 3: the same or that they go together exactly. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's what we're going to try to
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  Speaker 2: unpack today.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. And what I think is really cool about this
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  Speaker 3: article is that it goes beyond just sort of you know,
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  Speaker 3: thinking about it philosophically. Yeah, it actually digs into like
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  Speaker 3: some recent research. Oh cool, that's trying to like scientifically
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  Speaker 3: separate these ideas interest, which I think is really cool.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, like we're all familiar with that like internal debate, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: should I just be happy? Or am I? Am I
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  Speaker 2: searching for my purpose in life?
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  Speaker 3: The meaning of life? Like what's it all about?
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  Speaker 2: Exactly? And what if they're not the same, Like what
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  Speaker 2: if those two things are actually different? And this article
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  Speaker 2: suggests that there are like five key differences.
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  Speaker 3: And five key differences wow.
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  Speaker 2: I know some of them really like made me stop
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  Speaker 2: and think about, you know, how I'm living my life?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, and just how we even define those terms,
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  Speaker 3: because I think we use them kind of interchangeably, we do. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: So to actually break it down, I think is really helpful.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's dive into those differences.
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  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. So difference number one.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, So this first one is all about where we
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  Speaker 3: find happiness versus where we find meaning. Okay, And it
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  Speaker 3: seems like happiness a lot of times is tied to
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  Speaker 3: just like fulfilling our immediate needs and desires.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, So like basic needs yeah, like comfort, okay, security,
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  Speaker 4: you know those kind of like warm, fuzzy feelings that
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  Speaker 4: we get from I don't know, like a delicious meal yeah,
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  Speaker 4: or good laugh with friends.
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  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, just like simple pleasures exactly.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Whereas meaning seems to come from connecting to something bigger.
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  Speaker 2: Than ourselves, so like indulging in that extra slice of
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  Speaker 2: cake versus you know, volunteering at a soup kitchen even
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  Speaker 2: if it means I miss out on dessert.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yeah, And
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  Speaker 3: the article actually uses this example of a human rights activist,
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  Speaker 3: Oh wow, who might even face like imprisonment for their cause. Right,
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  Speaker 3: and they're probably not experiencing, you know, a ton of
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  Speaker 3: immediate happiness in that situation, but their life is deeply
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  Speaker 3: meaningful because they're driven by something larger than themselves.
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  Speaker 2: So it's like that instant gratification versus long term fulfillment.
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  Speaker 3: That's a really good way to put it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So if meaning is about the bigger picture, does
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  Speaker 2: that mean we need to like plan for our future
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  Speaker 2: happiness less and like plan for our future contributions more.
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  Speaker 3: That's a really interesting question. Yeah, and it actually leads
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  Speaker 3: us to that second key difference, which is time perspective. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: So happiness tends to be very much focused on the
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  Speaker 3: present moment, okay, right, savoring that slice of cake right now?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like cake, me too.
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  Speaker 3: It's a good example, whereas meaning takes a much longer view.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: It encompasses the past, the present, and the future.
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  Speaker 2: So maybe it's less about planning and more about like
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  Speaker 2: the lens through which we're viewing our experiences, like how
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  Speaker 2: much are we focusing on the you know, kind of
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  Speaker 2: fleeting nature of happiness versus like the enduring quality of
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  Speaker 2: meaning exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And that difference in perspective actually seems to like significantly
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  Speaker 3: influence how we relate to others. Okay, which is the
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  Speaker 3: third distinction the article explores. And this is the part
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  Speaker 3: that really surprised me.
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  Speaker 2: Oh right, the giving and taking thing. Yes, I have
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  Speaker 2: to admit this one threw me for a loop a
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  Speaker 2: little bit.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me more about that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, just like on the surface, it seems so counterintuit
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  Speaker 2: but tell us more about what the research found.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. So they actually found that while giving to others
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  Speaker 3: is really strongly associated with a meaningful life, okay, it's
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  Speaker 3: not always a direct path to happiness, at least not immediately.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: On the flip side, taking is linked to happiness okay,
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  Speaker 3: but not necessarily to a sense of meaning.
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  Speaker 2: So wait, if I'm understanding this correctly, the research actually
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  Speaker 2: found that people who focus more on taking are actually
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  Speaker 2: happier than those who focus more on giving.
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  Speaker 3: It seems kenterintuitive, rightly, it does, but it really speaks
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  Speaker 3: to this complex interplay between these emotions.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I need a minute to process that one.
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  Speaker 3: It's a tough one, it is. And it gets even
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  Speaker 3: more interesting when we consider the fourth point the article makes,
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  Speaker 3: which is the role of challenge in a meaningful life.
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  Speaker 2: So you're saying, like, struggling for something bigger than ourselves
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  Speaker 2: can actually lead to like a deeper sense of purpose.
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  Speaker 3: It seems that way.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, even if it means sacrificing some of that like
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  Speaker 2: immediate happiness, you know.
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  Speaker 3: Right, And that's what's so interesting about this research is
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  Speaker 3: that it does suggest that meaningful lives often involve more
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  Speaker 3: stress and challenges than those that are just solely focused
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  Speaker 3: on happiness. Interesting like stepping outside your comfort zone, taking
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  Speaker 3: risks for something you believe in. You know, these things,
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  Speaker 3: while not always fun in the moment, can lead to
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  Speaker 3: a really profound sense of purpose.
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  Speaker 2: It's like that saying no pay, no gain, Right, Sometimes
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  Speaker 2: those difficult climbs lead to the best views.
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  Speaker 3: I like that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we' giving we've got challenges. What's that fifth
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  Speaker 2: difference that the article has.
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  Speaker 3: So it brings us to self expression, And this is
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  Speaker 3: a big one, because expressing your true self, whether it's
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  Speaker 3: through art, activism, or even just like living authentically seems
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  Speaker 3: to be like a key ingredient in building a meaningful.
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  Speaker 2: Life, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And this is where things get really nuanced, because the
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  Speaker 3: research suggests that this drive for self expression doesn't necessarily
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  Speaker 3: correlate with an increase in happiness.
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  Speaker 2: So you could pour your heart into like a painting,
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  Speaker 2: right that brings you immense satisfaction and a deep sense
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  Speaker 2: of purpose, but it might not necessarily make you feel
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  Speaker 2: happy in the same way that like a relaxing day
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  Speaker 2: at the beach wood exactly, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And that brings us to I think, like a really
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  Speaker 3: important point of contention among researchers, okay, which is are
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  Speaker 3: we even talking about happiness in the right way?
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  Speaker 2: So it's like we're questioning the very definition of happiness.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, ooh, that's.
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  Speaker 2: A whole other deep dive. I know, right, we could
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  Speaker 2: go down that rabbit hole another time.
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  Speaker 3: You spent a whole episode on that.
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  Speaker 2: Right, But it's an important one, it is. It's not
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  Speaker 2: everyone agrees on what happiness actually.
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  Speaker 3: Means exactly, and some people define it as those like
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  Speaker 3: really fleeting feel good moments okay, while others see it
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  Speaker 3: as this like broader sense of like life satisfaction.
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  Speaker 2: So Is it about that momentary joy of that first
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  Speaker 2: bite of cake or is it the overall contentment we
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  Speaker 2: feel when we reflect on like a life well lived.
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  Speaker 3: That's a great way to put it. Yeah, And the
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  Speaker 3: article actually highlights this researcher, Soanjel Lubimirski, who argues that
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  Speaker 3: maybe we can't completely separate meaning from happiness after.
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  Speaker 2: All, So they're less like oil and water and more
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  Speaker 2: like ingredients in like a complex recipe. You could be
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  Speaker 2: experiencing both at the same time, even if they're coming
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  Speaker 2: from these different sources.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly, And Lubimirski uses parenting as an example. You know,
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  Speaker 3: raising children, it can be very challenging and stressful. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: but most parents would agree that it's also a source
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  Speaker 3: of like immense joy and fulfillment.
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  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 3: This is like really nuanced blend of meaning and happiness. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It makes you think about those moments when you get
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  Speaker 2: like so engrossed in a challenging project, maybe you're like
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  Speaker 2: writing a song or building something, and you totally lose
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  Speaker 2: track of time. Like you're not necessarily happy in that moment,
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  Speaker 2: but you're in your element.
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  Speaker 3: You're in the flow, Yes, exactly, And that I think
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  Speaker 3: speaks to this complex interplay between meaning, purpose, and yes,
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  Speaker 3: even those fleeting moment of happiness.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And that actually leads us to another interesting area of
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  Speaker 3: research that the article touches on, which is this difference
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  Speaker 3: between what's called you demonic and hedonic happiness.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, they sound a little intimidating. Break this down for me.
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  Speaker 3: You're big words. They are big words, But essentially, you
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  Speaker 3: demonic happiness refers to the happiness that we get from
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  Speaker 3: pursuing meaningful goals and living a life that aligns with
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  Speaker 3: our values.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: So it's like this deep sense of satisfaction and purpose, okay,
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  Speaker 3: whereas hedonic happiness is much more about like experiencing pleasure
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  Speaker 3: and enjoyment in the moment.
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  Speaker 2: So you demonic is more about that long term fulfillment
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  Speaker 2: of like knowing you're living in alignment with your values,
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  Speaker 2: while hedonic is about enjoying like the simple pleasures of
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  Speaker 2: life as they happen.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, like you demonic happiness is finishing that marathon you
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  Speaker 2: train for, and hedonic happiness is enjoying a cold drink
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  Speaker 2: after the race.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, that's a great way to put it. Okay, cool,
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  Speaker 3: And the article actually highlights a study that found that
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  Speaker 3: people who report it at higher levels of you demonic happiness,
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  Speaker 3: meaning they found a lot of joy in pursuing these
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  Speaker 3: meaningful goals, actually had stronger immune systems.
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  Speaker 2: Wow. So like finding your purpose and pursuing your passions
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  Speaker 2: might actually have these protective benefits for your health.
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  Speaker 3: Isn't that interesting?
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  Speaker 2: That's fascinating.
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  Speaker 3: Yah, it's a fascinating area of study. But it's important
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  Speaker 3: to note that not everyone agrees with this distinction between
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  Speaker 3: you demmonic and hedonic happiness. Okay, And the article actually
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  Speaker 3: presents another researcher, Elizabeth Dunn. Okay, it challenges this idea, okay.
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  Speaker 3: Done believes that in reality, these two types of happiness
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  Speaker 3: are so intertwined okay, that it's almost impossible to separate them.
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  Speaker 2: So it's less about like picking aside you know, youmonic
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  Speaker 2: versus hedonic, and more about just recognizing that both probably.
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  Speaker 3: Play a role exactly like finding that sweet spot, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: where you're pursuing your passions and you're connecting with something
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  Speaker 3: bigger than yourself, but you're also like taking time to
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  Speaker 3: smell the roses and enjoy those moments of joy along
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  Speaker 3: the way.
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  Speaker 2: It's been so thought provoking, it's a lot to think about.
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  Speaker 2: It is a lot to think about, Yeah, but it
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  Speaker 2: seems like in the quest for like, you know, a
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  Speaker 2: fulfilling life, maybe the real takeaway is that it's less
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  Speaker 2: about like achieving some perfect balance between happiness and meaning
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  Speaker 2: and more about just like understanding how those concepts actually
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  Speaker 2: like show up in our own lives.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point, and I think,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the research is fascinating. Yeah, but ultimately, like
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  Speaker 3: you are the best guide for your own life.
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  Speaker 2: So if a listener were to walk away from this
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  Speaker 2: deep dive with like one key insight, what would you
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  Speaker 2: want that to be?
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  Speaker 3: You know, I think the most important thing is to
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  Speaker 3: really like reflect on what activities, what pursuits bring meaning
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  Speaker 3: and purpose to your life. Okay, And it's not about
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  Speaker 3: forcing yourself to be happy, you know, or chasing some
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  Speaker 3: like abstract idea of meaning. It's really about identifying what
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  Speaker 3: truly resonates with you as an individual, Yeah, what makes
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  Speaker 3: you feel alive and engage with the world.
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  Speaker 2: Around you, and maybe letting go of the pressure to
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  Speaker 2: like fit everything neatly into those boxes exactly happy or meaningful,
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  Speaker 2: Like if something brings you joy, awesome, if it fuels
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  Speaker 2: your sense of purpose even better.
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  Speaker 3: Embrace the complexity. I love it right.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this has been such an eye opening conversation. But
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  Speaker 2: before we wrap up, I want to leave our listeners
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  Speaker 2: with one final thought. If you could dedicate your life
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  Speaker 2: to something deeply meaningful, something that like set your soul
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  Speaker 2: on fire, even if it meant you know, facing your fears,
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  Speaker 2: pushing beyond your comfort zone, what would it be?
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  Speaker 3: Wow?
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  Speaker 2: What legacy do you want to leave on the world.
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  Speaker 3: That's a powerful question and one worth pondering.
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  Speaker 2: I think it is it is. Thank you so much
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  Speaker 2: for taking this dip dive with us.
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  Speaker 3: This is fun.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you and to our listeners, we'd love to hear
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  Speaker 2: your thoughts, share your reflections, your insights, and maybe even
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: some of those soul stirring aspirations in the comments below.
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  Speaker 2: Until next time, keep exploring, keep questioning, and keep diving
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  Speaker 2: deep into the mysteries of life.
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