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From Gallery to Living Room: Rethinking Home Design Through Installation Art · Repcolite Home Improvement Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, thanks for tuning in. You're listening to Home
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: in Progress, brought to you by Repcolite Paints and Benjamin Moore.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: And today's show is kind of a surprise. It's really fun.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a blast from the past. I'm
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in the studio with Haley from the show, Hailey Johnson,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about some stuff that she's
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: got going on in her life. She's doing a lot
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: with art and we're going to get to all of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that and touch on some interior design tips as well
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: at the end. But let's just jump right in. Haley,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: thanks for being here.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on. Dan.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good to have you back. It's been
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: man about a year and a half since, I.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Think so, Yeah, because it was about a year and
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a half ago when I divorce the show.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yep, Haley divorced the show. Nothing to do with me
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: about Dan.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: We weren't fighting a vision.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: You wanted to go and do some training at Repcolite,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and it was going to be product training but also
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: like into color training.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is what I'm passionate about, you know. And
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I felt like there was a real opportunity to have
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a large effect on the people that were coming into
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: our stores, right, like the people that are listening right now,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and to create all of these minions out there.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just trying to create a cult.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: At Haley Army.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: We talked about it that, you know, the product training
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: is so important, and that part's kind of easy to
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: wrap your brain around. You know, which primers would I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: use here, Which products are the most durable for this situation.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And you were handling a lot of that and which
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: products to use, which covers and brushes and all that,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: But the color thing was was a little bit of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a harder cell. Yeah, you know, to even get our
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: brains around yours in mind and then to take this
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: idea up. But at the end we came up with this,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of conclusion that I could paint everything perfectly.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I could have all the skills necessary, use
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  Speaker 1: all the right to rules, I could use the best
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  Speaker 1: paint ever.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if I hate the color, none of it mattered.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: None of it matters. Yeah, And that's where color kind
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: of trumps everything exactly. If the color is good and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I think even the flip side, right, because we played
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: that out. If the color's good, but I didn't do
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: quite as good a job, or it doesn't last as
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: long as I wish it did. I'm still way happier.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Everything else is perfect, but I hate the color. I
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: can't live in a space where I hate the color.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Exact if I love it, it really invites me in.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So that's what you kind of went to do. And
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: you did that for a while. But all the time
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that I've known you and way beyond, you're an artist
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  Speaker 1: first and foremost, right, Yeah.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was the day job. Yes, you know, like
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: most artists have the day job. This was the day job.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: And I was grateful that I worked in something that
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: felt related, right, like color is very related to my
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: field in the arts. Uh. But yeah, I am an artist.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I also, I mean, for a long time, previous to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: moving to Grand Rapids, even have curated shows and had
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: built a small mobile art gallery when I was still
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: living in Portland, Oregon. And you guys all heard me
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: talk about renovating my garage so that I could have
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: this new version of what in Portland was called Hammer
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Space Gallery.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, portable pop up. Didn't it get left on the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: road somewhere?
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  Speaker 2: It did in Montana during a snowstorm on top of
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: a mountain.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Like what happened with the wheel the.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Wheel came off. I was very unprepared and like I
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was feeling the pressure of getting stuck in a snowstorm
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: in the mountains, like by myself. I just was like, okay, bye.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Unhit the trailer. There went that dream yep for a while.
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  Speaker 1: Then you get your house and you start renovating this garage.
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  Speaker 1: It's completely detached from the house. It's a waste from
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: the house. Yes, kind of lent itself perfectly to the space.
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  Speaker 1: You talked about it on the show. You've got it converted.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's your hammer space gallery two point oh.
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  Speaker 1: Gallery two point oh. And that's kind of what you're
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  Speaker 1: leaning into right now. So why don't you talk about that?
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  Speaker 1: Tell people what what is hammer space? What in the world?
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  Speaker 1: And art gallery in a garage? Yeah, what are you
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  Speaker 1: even talking about?
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  Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, it's funny in West Michigan because I think
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: people here garage and or gallery in a garage, and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: it feels very experimental and very strange.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And we don't even use the word experimental. Yah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just weird. I'm not gonna go there, no,
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  Speaker 2: but I think spaces like this are so important. They've
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: always existed. Like, here's the thing, Like, artists run spaces
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  Speaker 2: in like whatever space has been available to them, whether
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: it's their homes, warehouses, converted businesses, garages, like they've always
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: existed from the beginning of time. Artists have needed spaces
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  Speaker 2: to work and show their work before they can end
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  Speaker 2: up in museums where we go and see them later
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: down their career path. But before they can get into
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  Speaker 2: a museum, they have to have smaller venues. Artists run
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  Speaker 2: spaces that are willing to trust them enough to make
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  Speaker 2: some mistakes potentially, because that's not an option once you
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  Speaker 2: get into high end galleries or museums. You can't make
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the mistakes anymore.
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  Speaker 1: You have to have Christine an artist that you're.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Saying, it's kind of an unknown Yeah, you know, like
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  Speaker 2: you don't just get invited into a museum without having
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  Speaker 2: established clarity of vision that you know how to put
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: on an exhibition.
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  Speaker 1: So just because I've got a bunch of macaroni heart.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah not enough.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good. It's got the gold spray paint
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  Speaker 1: on it, so it kind of looks metallic.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, it's interesting, Dan, You'll have to show me.
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  Speaker 1: Sometime maybe maybe we could work out something for Hammer Space.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: We'll talk a while that off air. Yeah, So are
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: there lots of these areas? I mean there's not a
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: lot of places around us right here, right space exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And there's been like a real need for other artists
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  Speaker 2: run spaces to exist in West Michigan in general.
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  Speaker 1: It's really do we have a lot of other spaces
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  Speaker 1: where like established artists can show up and display their stuff?
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  Speaker 1: Or is the birth of all of this right?
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  Speaker 2: Like there's a few galleries in Grin Rapids, but nowhere
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  Speaker 2: near the amount that there should be in my opinion,
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  Speaker 2: for a city that actually has like a legitimate art
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  Speaker 2: school downtown, like not just a college with an art program,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: but in art school, right, Kendall is right downtown? We
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: have you know how many artists graduating every single year
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  Speaker 2: in our city and where are they showing their work afterwards?
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  Speaker 2: How are we retaining any of those people that have
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: moved to our city and giving them places to show?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm the type of person that like, if it
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist, I'm just gonna make it myself, and I
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: encourage everyone to do that. Like if the table doesn't exist,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: if you're not being invited to the dinner. Just build
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: your own table and then eventually, I guess what, you
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: get invited to the table of other people's stuff. Like
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I've seen that work for myself, even just in running
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  Speaker 2: hammer Space gallery showing work in my backyard. Now I'm
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: getting invited to show my work other places because you
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: just have to establish clarity of vision first. And it's
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: a weird like Kart before the horse sort of scenario
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  Speaker 2: where you have to have the experience to get the experience.
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  Speaker 2: And so hammer Space is really a gallery focused on
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  Speaker 2: giving artists spaces to show work that might not make
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  Speaker 2: it into a commercial gallery because it's not super sellable.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: There's that facet too of I'm not a painter personally,
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  Speaker 2: and I know of wonderful painters they have some options
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  Speaker 2: available to them for showing their art that installation artists
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  Speaker 2: and sculptors just don't have the luxury of we can't
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  Speaker 2: hang this cleanly on a wall. It takes up an
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  Speaker 2: entire room. So now how do you get someone to
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  Speaker 2: give you that amount of square footage dedicated to just
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: your work?
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  Speaker 1: And that's what you're doing at Hammerspace.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, we're really focused on installation are on sculpture, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, even if the work itself, you know, it
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  Speaker 2: could be a suite of paintings that are going in,
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  Speaker 2: but like if they're meant to all be seen together
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  Speaker 2: as one body of work and not individual pieces, That's
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  Speaker 2: what I'm interested in showing and giving space for. But
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the other thing the Hammer Space says that I really
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  Speaker 2: am passionate about is also giving parent artists spaces to
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  Speaker 2: be supported and show their work as well, because there
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is kind of an inhospitables that the art world creates
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  Speaker 2: around parent artists because we can't be major producers of
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  Speaker 2: work and we have gap in our cvs where we can.
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  Speaker 1: You're literally talking about people with kids. It's not some
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: fancy art literally.
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  Speaker 2: Just like people with kids don't necessarily fit within like
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  Speaker 2: the constraints that the art world wants you to fit
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  Speaker 2: with and that you're supposed to like just be able
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to produce your work and like focus on making and
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  Speaker 2: to go to other countries to like have residencies that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you can network and like that's how you get your
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: artwork in this other gallery. Like there's so much that's
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: just a part of how you build a career in
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  Speaker 2: the arts that does not for any second taken to
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  Speaker 2: the fact that, like you have a family.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: You're potty training, Yeah, like there are other as go
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: to the bathroom.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I've seen I've heard from other artists,
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  Speaker 2: mothers especially that have like taken breaks from their practice
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  Speaker 2: after they've had children, where like, really it's a hard
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  Speaker 2: thing to come back into your career as an artist
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  Speaker 2: after stepping away and really getting back into your own
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  Speaker 2: voice again, as well as a person that's been like
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: really transformed in a lot of ways. And I think
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: that the voices of mothers and of parents are extremely important.
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  Speaker 2: They're extremely valuable, and that space needs to be created
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  Speaker 2: to show their work and have their kids come to
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  Speaker 2: the opening, right, like not feeling like, oh it's a gallery,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: can't bring my kid, but like it's very very yeah,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: bring your family. The kids can play in the art
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: while like you go in and look at some art
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and if they want to look at it for a minute, great,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: But like also they can just run around and be
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: allowed to be a kid. So I'm really happy about
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: what Hammer Space is bringing to the table.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned installation art, because you've got an exhibit
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: that we want to talk about in this first half,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and then we're going to talk about how we apply
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: some of the things that you can yeah, from installation
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: art to home design, you know, interior design. But let's
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: talk about installation art. I'm sure there's a bunch of
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: people out there listening right now. Yeah I've said that,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: we're talking about what is installation art? You know? Does
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: it mean like I got a big painting and they
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: brought it in and it had had to be installed
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: by professionals? It's different than that.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I never even like really, Yeah, that's a
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: really interesting way to think about what installation art might
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: mean to people that like what's focused.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: On Yeah, you first said it installation art. Oh that's
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: big stuff.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where they need like professional installers.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those big screws. You got to make sure you
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: get those in the stuff.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: They're really focused on hardware.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Not that though.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: But wow, it's funny because this is a word that's
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: existed for a while now, like seventy five years. People
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: artists have been making installation art. What we call that
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and what we're used to seeing or hearing about in
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: terms of art, things like paintings and sculptures and those
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: are objects. Installation art is really kind of breaking away
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: from the object and looking at an entire environment that's
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: being created. So it's something that you experience by being
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: in the space. So it's not just a painting on
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: a wall that could be separate from whatever else is
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: in the room and still be the piece. It doesn't
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: represent the installation if it's by itself, but it could be.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: There can be a painting on that. Yes, it's just
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that's not it. I don't look at that for a
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: little bit, and now move to the next thing. I'm
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: trying to experience all of this together, right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It's relational, right, so like we're really focused on the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: conversation between the pieces and the meaning or questions that
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: we draw from those pieces all being in the room together,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: because it's really about the relationship between these things and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: also like your relationship to the space and how you're
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: being directed through it by the environment that's being created.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: So it's very much an type of art that's experiential.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Experiential. That's I was going to say, it's experienced. You
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: said it a little smarter than I would have, But
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that's all right, that's okay. I'm here for the regular folks.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: You're here for the four intelligent people that listen. Now,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you've got an exhibit coming up. Uh that that's the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: first one that's off site. So we just described hammer space.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, you've got.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Heaviest, heaviest, heaviest coming up. Let's let's start with the title.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: What's up with the title? And are we talking literal weight?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Are we talking emotional weight?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Right? Like it could be physical, spiritual? That's the that's
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: what it's called heaviest. Yeah, And I think the title
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is a little tongue in cheek because you can say heaviest,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: it's the heaviest, but if.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: You continue to say heaviest.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Heaviest, heaviest, like, well, that sort of breaks and it's
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: just absurd. And I think that's kind of the point
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: because it's also what we experience in our daily lives
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: now is people that are on their phones and like
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: consuming information on a pretty constant stream and so like.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Like sad information. Is that what you're talking about heavy?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Like that?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I think you know, like good things can be heavy too,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Like love can feel weight in our bodies, right, but
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: whether it's like the news of a baby being born
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: and like feeling a lot of excitement for that and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: then like switching to something that's like wow, okay, like
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: that's really bad. And we're seeing these things like in
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: a timeline, like all together, and all of them feel
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like they carry or should carry some weight, and yet
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: we scroll through them. Is if like all of them
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: weigh the same and nothing at all, right, Like when
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: everything is heaviest, it means nothing carries weight anymore. And
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I think that that's a real you know, it's a
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: dangerous thing about our relationship to our phones and technology,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: and it affects the way that we experience each other
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: in real life, right, I mean, we all know these things.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I think we all feel that, and it's just a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: conversation that I think is important to kind of have
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: some questions around and create an experience that allows people
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to slow down and really consider.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And I think for you that that makes I mean
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that that makes perfect sense. I don't mean that how
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: do I ask say this what I want to say?
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: You live in the art world, and I think for
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you to think of art as asking a question, you know,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: bringing up something that's worth having a conversation, well, makes
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Yeah, I think I don't know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I can speak for me. You know, four years ago,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: before I met you, I would have thought art is
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: here to look good against my cow, you know that
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: right what I'm thinking, I'm not thinking about art as
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: raising all kinds of questions, you know. And if the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: artists are, it's because they're you know, doing some kind
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of you know, political activisty something that's that's not what
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. You're talking about creating this exhibit, this
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: installation art. That's what heaviest, heaviest, heaviest is Yes, we
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: walk through and we're confronted, whether in whatever way, right,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, what we take.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Out of exactly, it's what you take from it. And
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: there's a sculpture in this space, there's a kinetic sculpture
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: in the space, and there's a sound piece that's being
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: composed live at the event, and so like none of
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: this stuff is scary. It's just that like you can
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: walk in instead of feeling like that's pretty or like
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that could be decoration or that can go in my home.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Our normal relationship to art, I think, especially in West Michigan,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: is that it's it's decorative to a certain extent. And
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I think that I personally am very interested in art
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: that has a question behind it and allows the audience
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: to ask a question. And that's like the point. And
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I feel like it starts to feel inaccessible because we
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: don't know what that is. But that's like precisely the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: experience that the artist is after is can I create
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a question in the audience's mind? And so yeah, if
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you walk into the room and you just have a
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: lot of questions about like what you're looking at, then perfect,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: like mission accomplished.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: So for anybody listening, I mean, you know, I'm sure
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: that they're hearing some of this is high falutin and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: you know it's it's very heavy stuff. And I'm not
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: that that's not me. This is this is for anybody,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And like you said, there's no fear that should be involved.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: You don't come and nobody's looking at you for answers.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: If you walk in completely blown away, I have no
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: idea what's happening?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Where am I? What is going on?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Everyone in the room is feeling the same thing you've made. Yeah,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the one of us.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And that's really I get trying to get over that home. Yeah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: because that was very it's tough hard for me to do.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I've gone to a couple of these to see what
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. And I don't understand what you're talking
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: about all the time, but I don't need to. I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: can raise questions, ask questions, and I may not leave
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that with any idea of heaviest whatever. I'm going to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: get my own version.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: But doing that, as weird as it sounds, and it
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: maybe does to a bunch of people listening, there's so
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: much value to be had in that. It's a new experience.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It's thinking about something in a new way. You've got
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: good snacks.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And like don't we all crave novelty to like
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: a certain extent in our lives, Like if we've seen
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: it all, done it all, like what's the point? You know?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like we all crave novelty, and so
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: this is just a novel experience.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: There's number of things that ever since Haley came on
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the show, you from the very beginning had way different
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: ideas about pretty much everything that I did, and we
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: butted heads at times in a constructive way. So, yeah,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: not as constructive because I get stubborn, get I get scared,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Like I get scared because I'm thinking, how do I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: bring this to the audience and not have people have
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: their brains melt because I don't know how to explain this.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: And yet, you know what I've learned by stretching is
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I mean some of my favorite things, some of the lessons,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: some of the lessons of the wrong word, some of
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the things that I think about that have changed who
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I am. Most have come from things that we have done,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you and I on the show, or for events that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: have pushed me way outside. David Lynch. Yeah, we did
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a design event talking about David Lynch.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Who is a weird Oh he's a Weirdoh.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: You told me don't even listen to him speak. Yeah,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: because you can't listen to it. Just read what he said,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: because if you listen to him speak, you're going to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: do about But I got through it, and I learned
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: so much from that man, and it's so interesting and
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: it's I would not have been there had you not
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: pushed me out of my comments on Frank Gary, you
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: name it. I mean, there's all kinds of people in
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: this world. I always bring up Picasso because I didn't
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: go to art school, but I had a wonderful art
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: history class that was a whole year's worth. And I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: loved every moment of that. And I would just think,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I don't get what they're doing. How do people think
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: these are you know, yes, geniuses. And yet once you
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: start to realize what they're pushing and the questions they're raising,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it becomes so interesting and you become you don't become,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you just start to see things. You start to ask
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: more questions, be willing to try the next thing. Yeah,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: so I really encourage you if you if you are
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: even remotely interested. This is coming up when.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: March March fourteenth, from four thirty to seven thirty.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: We need to talk about where it is.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: So it's at Do Not Start, which is a new nonprofit.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: It's an art collective, I guess is what I would
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: call it. But they've got studio spaces for artists are affordable,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: they have community spaces that can be rented and also
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: just like giving artists access to things like a wood shop,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: screen printing space and materials for a monthly membership fee,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: which is just really important to have those resources available
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: in our community. Again, when we have a literal art
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: school not far away from it, where are these graduates going?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: What are they doing after they leave? School and it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: a great opportunity.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So do not start. It's March March.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Fourteenth, from four thirty to seven thirty, and it's in
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: southwest Grand Rapids. There's like four warehouses on Godfree Now
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: that all house creative businesses and artists studios. So it's
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: very up and coming area with lots of interesting shopping
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and like, yeah, you're just you're supporting the local art
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: ecosystem in a way that hasn't existed here in many
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: years now.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Now there's no cost for it.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Nope, there's no costs. It's a free event, so if
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you want to make a donation, we're nonprofit, so we
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: would love it, but it is not required, all.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Right, And when people get there, I mean maybe two minutes,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: one minute a half. What are they going to experience.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: So it's a large warehouse that you're pulling up to, right,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Like this warehouse is twenty one thousand square feet and
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: you're going to find parking either behind the building or
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: on Hall Street. And when you enter the building, you're
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: gonna walk into a space that's filled with artists studios
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: sectioned off like cubicles, and then you're going to go
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: upstairs to where the art exhibition lies up there. You'll
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: experience sculpture and sound, and you'll snack on some meats
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and cheeses and crackers, and drink some wine lords and
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: just enjoy talking to your friends in a different environment.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Can you talk in the space, Yes, you can talk
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: to wander? Can I weep? Should I feel the desire
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to weep?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I mean it's open to whatever, whatever emotion.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Whatever you How long does it take me to traverse
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the area? Is there a time? I mean, is it huge?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Am I going to be there for? Well, it's open
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: for three hours.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: It's open for three hours.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I need three hours.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Spend five minutes in the space if you wanted to,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I'd be happy. S came out and sid Yeah, I'll
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: be there. It'd be fun to see people that know
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: me from a REPCOI era.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we'll put all of that in the show notes.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: If you want to check it out, Encourage you to
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: get out there. Just stretch your boundaries a little bit.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, what are we doing in march anyway?
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly? Like, what else is there to do? Right now?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Go out? You'll be smarter for it, right, yeah, I mean, yeah,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: we'll all be smarter all right, Let's take a break.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: When we come back, let's talk about applying some of
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: this installation art and the concepts of it to our
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: own home town design should do that. Let's do it
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: all right, We'll be back in just a minute. Stick
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Around Home in Progress is brought to you by repcoll
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Lite Paints and Benjamin Moore. You know, people often think
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: of paint as just another line item on the project's
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: supply list. But here's the thing. Everything you do, every
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: hour of prep, every stroke of the brush, all comes
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: down to the quality of the paint. The paint is
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the project. Make sure it's the best. And I'm in
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the studio with Hailey Johnson, previously from Repcolite. Currently Haley
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is the director and curator of Hammer Space, and we're
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: talking about an art exhibit that she's got going on
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: coming up March fourteen. We talked about that last segment.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Now we want to focus on different lessons interior design
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: lessons that we can learn from installation art and Haley,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: let's just make it practical for everybody listening. And you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: had in this great email that you sent me, Great
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: as in like the Great Depression or the Great War, Big,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: not as in It was the most awesome email. It's
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a big email, and you talked about everything we just covered,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: but you also said you wanted to talk about some
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: lessons or principles or skills. Is probably the best way
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to pull out that we can learn from installation art.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And you know, let's say somebody who's listening, some of
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: these people never go to an installation art show. You
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: know what can we actually learn still from the concept
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: of installation art and use that in our interior design
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And you had four different principles
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: that you threw out there. The first one was this,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: we can learn to look at the relationship between objects,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: not just the objects themselves. Yeah, what does that mean
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: for people out there right now? Let's make it really clear.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: What does that mean for my mom?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It's tricky sometimes because I think that we when we're
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: decorating our homes or designing homes, we have a tendency
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: to see things separately, Like do I like that couch? Yes?
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I do. That will be the couch that I buy.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And there's no question question because you liked it, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: if it's in the space, it's right size, so like
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: why not get it? But I think that answer can
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: change when you start looking at that couch and thinking
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: about how it goes with the rug, or what it
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: does to the painting on the wall that's right behind it,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: or how you move around the space in a different
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: way because now maybe it's got like a slightly deeper seat,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: and so thinking about the entire space and relationship to
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the couch is being affected by that decision.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think people don't do that regularly?
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I think that sometimes it's easy to just look at
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: a singular object, like you can really like you can
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: go shopping and really love a lamp, and then maybe
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: you get it back home and you realize, oh, that's
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: actually the way I have to turn that on is
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: super awkward because of how I move around this space
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: normally and how that changes the way that I interact
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: now with the space.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Right the installation art is all about partly about it's.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: How you're moving through a space, and it's how these
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: objects or paintings or sculptures in the space.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Are working together also how I interact with them as
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I move through it. Exactly, I can see that I
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: think most I would think a lot of people are
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: going to figure how is that couch going to look
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: against my you know, the picture that I've got there,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: how's it going to look with this chair? That that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: part makes sense, even with the rug. I do think
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that we don't think about what is this going to
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: do to the flow of the room and how I
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: move through the room. I'll sit on things, yeah, and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'll think, Okay, can I sit here and have my
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: feet touch the floor and not feel like I'm eight? No,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: gott to keep looking for a smaller chair. But I'll
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: get something and I'll sit in it and I'll feel
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: comfortable in it, and I'll double check the fabrics and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: then I bring it to the space and everything you
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: just said. It changes how I moved through the room.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: It changes the whole feel of the room. And you're saying,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: pay more attention to those kinds.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Of things, exactly how you're moving through the space and
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: how it's affected by the things that you put in
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the room.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And I like the idea with the lamp. Thing I've
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: done that with. I can't remember what it was. Something
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: that needed to open one way, hmm, and to make
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: my room flow the way I was used to and
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: the new thing I bought opened the other way, and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like I could just swap the door around.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: It wasn't one of those exactly.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of a bummer and we had
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to readjust and it never quite felt right the space
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: It looked good right, feel good exactly.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's one of the other points
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: that I had in this list, right, is like we
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: can really start focusing on feeling as one of the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: key principles to design, because I think again that's really
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: what any art is after is to invoke a feeling,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: not an answer, but baseline, we're looking for a feeling
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: to help.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: You're saying that one of the things we can learn
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: is something and we've talked about this on the show before,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: is when you're trying to figure out colors, that's where
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: you're going with this something like that, trying to pull
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: your space together. Yes, don't get so hung up on
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: immediately figuring out what colors I'm going to go with.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You got to start with what am I trying to
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: create here? Y is the etiosophere wind that you're after,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and that's going to inform where you go with paint
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: colors and you know what else.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything from that point becomes very easy to answer,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: because if you've landed on the feeling that you want
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to create, and now there's like not a question of
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: is that the right paint color? Well, does it create
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the feeling that you were after in you? If it doesn't,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: then it's a no. You can like it and it
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: could still not be right. And I think the same
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: goes for literally everything we put in our homes. Does
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it create the feeling that I am after? If it does, go,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: If it doesn't, then it doesn't work. And I think
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that that is one of the main principles of installation artists.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: How is this environment creating the feeling that I'm after?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And that's what the artists are working together. So like
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: at Heaviest, Heaviest Heaviest, Yeah, you've got four different artists,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: three different artists.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: There's four different artists.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are they they're not collaborating. They've each got their
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: own pieces, but two.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Of them are collaborating. Actually, Okay, so there's two artists
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: in collaboration with each other making a singular work, and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: then there's an artist with their own work, and then
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: there's a sound artist, so a little bit different. They're
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: really creating, like.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: But they're all working to create this concept of heaviest.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: So they've got a feeling they're aiming at, and they're
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: all doing it in their own way, right, they're going.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: But the first thing is to get that feeling figed out.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Same thing for our spaces, any space, Yes, in the home,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: get that feeling figured out. That's going to, like you said,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: inform all all the other decisions you make. It's going
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: to take a lot of stuff right off the table.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Because that is so frustrating when there's eight million choices. Yeah, no,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: we always say that's such a great thing. Oh, come
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: on in, we got five thousand different colors to.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Choose from it, because like, how do you make a
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: choice when you can like so many things?
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Right, and you know, I like almost everything. I mean
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I am so open to everything that it's all on
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the table.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it becomes really hard.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Something to give me a little boundary. So start with that.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So that's two of them. Another idea that you had
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: was that everything can be intentional. You know, you got
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: to start with intentionality and installation art, every material choice matters.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: How do we connect that to the interior?
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, home, I think this is speaking from an installation
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: artist perspective. I think this is like one of those
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: things that can drive you crazy. So like, you know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: take this for what it is.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what you're saying, yeah, might not take away
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the crazy. It might add to it crazy.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: It's rebably gonna add to the crazy, but I think
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: that it does so in a way that's really good ultimately,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: like the results will be yeah, but it's much harder
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: to get through, Like it's just going to take longer.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean, then, what are we talking about?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: How do we mess up our lives for a while
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: and then get to good results.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So like an example, I'm just going to like start
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: with how this exists in art and then how this
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: can translate to your home. So, for example, we talked
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: about my stick piece, which was that I filled a
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: room with strip sticks, so that means there were just
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: straight sticks, there were no branches coming off of them.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: These were out These weren't fancy sticks, just sticks things
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you'd burn.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And we didn't afterwards, but just lined the gallery floor.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: So the entire floor was filled with sticks, And okay,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: like that's a fairly easy decision to make. But then
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I started to have to think about like, Okay, well
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: now like what I wear to pick up all of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: these sticks, which was the performance that I was seeing
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: how many I could hold without you know, giving up.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So it took I think around like forty minutes of
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: me picking up sticks. That's how long I was picking
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: up new sticks. Was for forty minutes. So at the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: end of it, I'm on the floor, you know, with
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: like a giant pile that I'm just kind of.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Like carrying around leaning against me. Right, Like it was
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: brutal to watch.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: It's very stressful, yeah, and it should be because that
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: was the feeling, right is like this this is all
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: stress that I feel like I carry in my daily life,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: so it should feel stressful. But the decisions that I
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: needed to start making were Okay, what am I going
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: to wear? And like what does that mean? And also
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: like down to the socks, you know, like I realized
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: the day of that, oh, I haven't picked out a
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: specific pair of socks to do this, and that becomes
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: important again, like okay, how yeah, Like that does need
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: to be a decision that it can't just be whatever
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: sucks I pull out of the draw. It needs to
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: be like, Okay, why those sucks?
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So I can see where the driving your nuts.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Thing comes from right, and I think that applied to
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: a home, like the design can just become extremely intentional
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: in that way, because now we're not just picking like
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: a lamp shade that fits the lamp that we have.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: We're picking a lamp shade because of, Okay, what does
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: that material do in this space? Why is it important
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: that it's that material, Why is it important that it's
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: that pattern, Why should it be metallic over black? All
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: of that you can start to create some mean from
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and so it's not just picking out a lamp because
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: it lights up and it works and like it fits,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: but because every single part of it was exactly intentional
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: for the space and the environment that you're trying to create.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Well, the end result is so rewarding, you know, versus
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: something that's just whatever you picked. But yeah, it's quite
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a process, Yeah, to get it right. Now I've done that,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: not with a singular piece, but like things that I
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: started collecting to go in the house. You know, at first,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you know, as I'm creating decore finding decre you know,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I'd go to this a couple department stores and you
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: just buy things that look good. Well, I kind of
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: got away from that because I started finding all these
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: really unique pieces, and the unique pieces started to be
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: you know, what I would find is that I would
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: go and over the course of three or four months,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: whatever was in my head at that time becomes something
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that I keep resonating towards. Yeah, so I find these
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: little things that have all these little gears in them. Yeah.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that matters to me, but I
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: think it's the coolest thing in the world. So now
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: when I'm going and finding new things, I'm not just
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like blind to all these other things that maybe
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in eight months i'll find and like right, because right
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: now I'm looking for things that are all built around
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that concept. And I'll find things that maybe aren't gears,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: but they look like gears, and they turn like gears,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: but there's something different. So I'm bringing those in and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: it sounds ridiculous. I don't even know if it makes
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: sense to anybody. But when I'm done, these things that
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I've created, they've got a story for me. They've got
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: a journey that I've been on, and it was they
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: all matter.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: You have a relationship to the thing that you're putting
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: in your home in a different level than like, Okay,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: that fits the requirements, and so it's in you're creating
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a relationship.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: It's like kind of applying the same logic to meeting
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the people. I think we can all be like really
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: intentional about the people that we have in our lives
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: and that we feel connected to, and I think that
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: we can apply that to others things.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I like that. I think that makes a lot of
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: good sense, a lot of good sense. Hayley, you get
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: a thumbs up for that one. Not easy to do, yeah,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: but it's really rewarding. It's really fun. The last one
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: you had. I really liked how I got to find
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: it in my notes. Your idea is that installation art
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: can inspire us to invite curiosity, you know, and I
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: think this is really big. You know, we've talked about
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of how important it is on the show
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: to be curious. How does this really apply to interior
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: design in your mind? Why is curiosity important for my mom?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: She's got her note pad out right now. I can
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: hear the pen clicking.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Ha, it's so specific. I mean it's for like every
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: reason that you just kind of talked about with your gears, right,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: I think there has to be a moment in the
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: story where we're curious or else we're not really drawn
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: into the world. If we're not curious about something that
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: we're reading, then like how drawn in can we really
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: be if we don't have questions or like if we
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: don't feel that level of connection that invites some curiosity.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I think like going back to relationships again, like I
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: think relationships that have some lasting power, the people that
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: continue to surprise us, Like if we know everything that
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: person's going to do forever, Like you lose some interest
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: over time, and.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: You've seen a movie for thisbec.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but if they keep you guessing, like if you
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: can continue to be curious about what they're going to
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: do next, then you stay engaged, right, And I think
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: that that's a really important thing to bring into our
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: homes so we can continue to feel engaged by them
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: and connected to them, not just we know them and
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: we will know them forever.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: So with stuff in our home, it's not really about
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: bringing stuff into our home, that's not what you're talking about.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: You're talking about just nurturing the idea that I don't
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: know it all yet, I don't understand everything yet, and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep digging. I'm going to keep exploring.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we talked about with the installation
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: art in the beginning, is you walk in and I
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: have no idea what I'm looking at, and rather than
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: you saying, well, let me explain, you said no. That
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: means you're right there. Yeah, you're right on the cusp
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: of where you need to be. Is you're asking those questions,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and I think that's where for me, the reason this
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: is important is because when I'm curious, that's where I
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: solve things. That's where I find something that I hadn't
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: thought about before. You know, when you're just moving through
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: something routine. Yeah, you know, if I'm painting the same
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: colors because let's make it about interior design, Yeah, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: painting the same colors just because I know it works,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I know, you know, it could just crank it out
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: really fast. Yeah, you know, I know what kind of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: things to bring in, you know, I know what kind
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: of rugs to look for. I can get whatever results.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: But when I start asking questions, I start getting a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: little more curious, trying to bring in something that's outside
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of my norm. It makes it harder. Everything becomes a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: little more complicated. But the end results can be so
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: much bigger. Yeah, because I'm finding answers that I never
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: would have even thought to ask questions for. Well.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I think you've talked about your sister before,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and she had one of those like classic cat clocks
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: with the eyes and the tail, and I think that
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: that's one of those moments, right, Like, she didn't try
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: to find the reason to have that necessarily, but she
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: allowed the curiosity with the joy that it created to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: exist for her to put that in her home and
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: continue to feel like, I don't know why like this
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: so much, but it brings me some joy.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: It was one of those really funny things, and I
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: think it's one of the most important things. You know,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: if I would think of the five things that we've
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: covered on the show four hundred whatever episodes, this is
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: one of those five things that I think is so important,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: most important. And the concept was Laura found this cat.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Everybody in her family, everybody around her thought it was
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: hideous and just silly and.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: You know, why do you have it?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Jokes that you're looking at it, but she couldn't walk
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: away from it. And then when she did walk away
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: from it, because everybody thinks it's dumb. You know, I
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: don't know why I love this. I don't know what
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: memory it's stirring. I don't know what's going on. She
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: couldn't let it go. Yeah, and she bought it, and
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: nobody could believe she bought it. And they hung it up,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: and nobody could believe she hung it up in her
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: home because she was very you know, fancy with all
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the other things that she did. And then she's got
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: this clock that's way out of the norm.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: And then but she loved it, absolutely loved it. It was
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: her favorite thing. And then like a month later, two
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: months later, I don't remember what, but my favorite part
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of the story was her son, you know, college aged
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: son at that time, came through and he said, you know,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: of all the things that you've got in the house,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: my favorite thing. And she said, what is your favorite thing?
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Because we always do that when I die, what do
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you guys get? And so that's my family's you know,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: we're dark humor. And she said, what do you want
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: when I go? And he said the clock, the cat clock.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And she said, but everybody thought the cat clock was silly.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: He says, it's my favorite thing because it's the one
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: thing in this whole house that just reminds me of
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: you so easily and so perfectly, because it's your humor,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: it's your And she got there by being curious, by
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: stepping outside of whatever, yeah or do you and every.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: People like didn't understand why it should go in her home.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: She was able to just like stay curious about it
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: and live with the feeling that and the end.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Results were so much happier, you know, just fit with
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: every who cares that that way, right, It just brings
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: so much joy And isn't that what we want? Yeah?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I don't really need my home to be this immaculate,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, thank goodness, I don't need it to be
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: this immaculate, you know, pristinely decorated and organized perfectly, you know, setting.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I want it to be a be placed That's first
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: and foremost what I'm after. And that's what I found
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: with all those weird gear things. It's what I found
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Laura found with that weird cat makes you laugh, You
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: have fun with it. I don't care who comes through
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: and pulls their nose up.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: No.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Plus, it's Haley, because you're so clear about it. You
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: don't even hide it a little bit.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: But this stuff you would like, yeah, exactly, because I
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: think that it has a soul to it at that point.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: There, that's the word right there, it has a soul
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: to it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a different level of connection that you
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: have to those objects than the ones that we're supposed
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to have or that look right whatever. That is.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: All I know is it's a lot more fun. I mean,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: it is way more fun to go searching, questing for
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: things to fill your home on a slow scale than
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: it was ever for me to go somewhere and buy
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: twelve of these things at once and now I'm done. Yeah,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: you know, they all go together, they all look great.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: There's no soul in that, not in my house anyway.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I've got to have these little pieces so invite curiosity.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what the other ones were. I don't
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: have to recap them. People were there, push rewind on
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: the pay back you can hear again what those other
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: things were. But that's the beauty of something like installation art,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: where it is pushing us a little bit, you know,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of us, you know, and it's it's outside
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: of what we normally think about, but there's still really
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: good stuff to pull out of it, even if in
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: itself that's not your thing, you know, like yeah, talk,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: you could go in.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And hate what we have presented, and I'm like, beautiful,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: you came and you decided that, like you have this
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: makes you feel vol like you don't like it? Like
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: that's still because why like why don't you like it?
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Then I think becomes the question that you can think about,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: like Okay, yeah, what is it about this that I
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: don't like? Like where is the feeling? Or like what
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: is the material doing that? Or like is it the
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: lighting conditions? And that can be a good thing, Like
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I don't think that we should feel good about the
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: level of disconnection that we feel from like human weight, right,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, maybe it doesn't make you feel happy,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: and I think that that's like completely valid, And I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: think that's that's the hard stuff when it comes to art,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: is that not all of it is going to make
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: us just feel joy like that you can live with
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: feelings and it's okay.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Well I know that. Yeah, like your performance piece with
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: all the sticks, Yeah, you know what was that called? Again?
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Fistful?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Fistful? And I again there was no I don't know
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: what Haley was intending to convey. There's an idea, because
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: you've got an idea that you're trying to convey, but
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that's not the sole idea. It's free for whatever. And
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: I'm watching you collect these sticks and as she's going around,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: at first she got an armful and it's easy and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. And then it's getting heavier, and
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: as we're watching the movie of its filmed, it it's
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: getting harder for you to hold them, harder for you
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: to go. I'm getting antsy. You're trying to hold them
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: with one arm and then reach to get other ones
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: so you don't have to slide yourself across the floor
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: with all of these other sticks. And all I'm thinking
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: about are you know people who struggle with addictions who
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: it would be so good to let this go, even
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: if you've got to reach for this other one.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: But you're but this compulsion is you can't let go.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: You're stuck with this burden that you're baring. But even
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: though this burden is killing you, you're still reaching for
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: another piece to add to the burden that's killing you.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And then I started thinking about all the all the
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: things that I carry, and you know, at the end
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: of the day. It was not a pleasant experience in
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: that regard, and yet I'm still thinking about it. I'm
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: still talking about it because it was a really powerful
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: thing and it helped me get inside my head and
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: ask some questions and don't I can't think of an
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: example right now. There's been one or two times since
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: that I was doing something, not picking up sticks, nothing physical,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and that went through my mind. I thought, I'm kind
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: of doing the stick, doing the right thing, and whatever
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: you meant by it, that's one thing. That's what I
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: took from it, and it has impacted me.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: And that was a year ago, right, Yeah, yeah, a
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: year ago.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of value in art that we have
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: no idea. Let me tell you, I don't have any idea.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I don't understand half of what Haley talks about. I nod,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I smile, and I try to understand as best I can.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And even though I don't get it all, there's still
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: so much I can take from it. And I feel
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: pretty high brow and snooty after saying I've gone to
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: some of these things. So there's a lot of value
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: if people want to be a part of it again.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: The date is.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: March fourteenth, it's a Saturday. It's from four thirty to
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: seven thirty at do not start in Grand Rapids.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: It's free, free love a donation. Yes, yeah, I thought
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: it was like five hundred dollars.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I mean that would be amazing.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Great too great. You've got a Fox News thing coming
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: up too, right.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you record that on Monday and Aaron Fox
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I believe the following Tuesday. So yeah, just a few
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: days away.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: All right, So good luck with that.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I mean, I'm just going to pretend like
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: it's radio.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Right, they'll probably ask you about me. I'm assuming, well
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you have did you work with that Dan? Did you
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: work with Dan? He's pretty cool. But don't just tell
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: him it's not about me this time. You let him know. Yeah,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: tell them, let him know, Dan said, let it be
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: about Haley this time. All right. I'll put all of
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: that info in the show notes. It's really good to
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: catch up Haley. Yeah, thanks for being here. And that's
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: going to wrap things up for this episode of Home
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: in Progress. Big thank you to Haley Johnson, director and
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: curator of Hammer Space and Grand Rapids, for joining us
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: and sharing a bit about the work that she's doing
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: there as well. As that upcoming exhibit Heaviest Heaviest, Heaviest,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: if you are interested in checking that out. The exhibition
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: opens March fourteen, like we've said all show long, and
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you can find all the details, a lot a great
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: info at Hammerspace gallery dot com, so check that out.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe to
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the podcast wherever you listen so you never miss a conversation.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: And if you know someone who really enjoys interior design, creativity, art,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: or just hearing interesting stories from people doing really fascinating
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: things in our community, feel free to share the episode
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: with them. That'd be great, all right. You can also
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: follow along with what we're doing by searching for Home
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: and Progress online, where we post new episodes and updates regularly.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening for Home and Progress. I'm Dan Hansen.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I'll see you next time.