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Writing Powerful Prose with Susan Meissner · WriterCon

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This week on the writer Con podcast. You know, when I'm asked this
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question, there's like there's a lot of answers I could possibly give, and
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so the one that I give today may not be the one I give tomorrow.
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But for today, I would say read the good stuff, because when
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you're a writer, what you're reading is feeding your writing brain. Welcome to
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writer Con, a gathering place for writers to share their knowledge about writing and
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the writing world. Your hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author
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of The Red Sneaker books on writing, and Renee Gutteridge, best selling author
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of over thirty novels and screenplays. I'm joined today by my usual cohorts for
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Renee Gutteridge and Jesse Ulrich. We have some news on the writer confront.
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The comfort schedule is now on the website, so you can check it out
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see if there's anything that might help you get where you want to go with
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your writing career. I'm betting you'll see more than one thing. In fact,
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I'm betting you'll see a lot. Then after you've reviewed the schedule,
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Joel, check out our list of speakers. We have more writers, more
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agents, more publishers, more people providing services to authors than we have ever
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had before. We're up to almost seventy prisoners now. Renee, you always
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manage the pitch sessions and the private consultations and that kind of stuff, basically
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making sure everybody gets a chance to talk to whoever they want to see,
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be it an agent or a publisher or a mentor or whatever. How do
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you juggle all that? I don't know. I don't know, but you
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just don't want to give away your secrets. Well, you have to see
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me do it to understand that. I try to do it well, and
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we really do try to get everybody seen and heard. We love these opportunities
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for consultations and pitches, so we work hard to make that a good experience.
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For sure, Well it works because I know of several people who did,
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in fact find agents last year at writer Con. So pat yourself on
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the back. And these are with every one of the agents we've got coming
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to this conference's top flight from a major agency. People I would be perfectly
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happy to have be my own agents, so I have no trouble recommending them
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to others. Now, Jesse, in a new writer Con, first,
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you're going to be recording the sessions and making them available to attendees after the
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conference hents audio recordings, I should say, correct, Yes, so you're
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gonna be busy, Yes, yes i am. I'm gonna have to rent
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a lot of little recording things. They're zoom p fours by the way,
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if anyone who is listening is into this sort of thing, they're gonna be
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zoom p fours which will plug into all the soundboards and all of the rooms
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for all of the seventy presenters and clipping it on people's lapel all day long.
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Right, yeah, Well, hopefully I can use the sound that's already
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in the room, but God willing that's that's the case. If not,
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then oh boy. Yeah. The nice thing though, is that, you
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know, sometimes people see two or more sessions scheduled at the same time and
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worry about which one should. Well, you don't have to worry about it
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anymore, don't fret, you know, go to one and listen to the
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other one later on. Right yeah, yeah, And if the presenter has
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a PowerPoint, maybe I'll throw that on top of the audio. Two.
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Who knows is the time I have, So I wouldn't put it past Jesse.
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He is pretty impressively creative. Okay, Our interview today is with Susan
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Meisner. Susan is our Friday keynote speaker at Writer Con. She's a USA
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Today best selling novelist with something like three quarters of a million books in print
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or no sold, so actually in reader's hands in eighteen different languages. Her
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critically acclaimed and award winning works of historical fiction have been named to numerous lists,
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including Publisher Weekly's annual roster of one hundred best books. Her newest title
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is Only the Beautiful, which concerns a young mother's fight to keep her daughter,
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set against the backdrop of World War Two. We'll talk to Susan after
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the news segment, and a brief word from our friends at Draft to Digital.
4:41
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right, our first news story. And let me just say up front,
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this really seems more of the like the kind of thing that Renee usually brings
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to the podcast that this time I have to take the blame for another in
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our series on weird Things Writers do. The headline here is the female author
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who penned a grief book for kids is now charged with her own husband's murder.
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A Utah woman who wrote this children the children's book on grief that she
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wrote with her three boys following her husband's death, and now she's been charged
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with the murder, aggregated murder, and three counts of possession of a controlled
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substance or yeah right, I'm so glad I didn't publish that it was a
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chance. Her name is Curry Richens and and she's the mother of three who
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claims that she found her husband lying unresponsive in their bedroom after he consumed a
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drink she made. She said she served him a moscow mule to celebrate the
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closing of a house. He runs a real estate business in Camus, which
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is just east of Salt Lake City. She then went to look over her
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children, one of the children in a different room. She says she fell
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asleep and when she woke up around three am, her husband was dead,
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but an autopsy later determined that the husband had died from orally consuming about five
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times the lethal dosage of fentanyl, according to court documents, Renee, I'm
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not going to ask you if you think she's guilty, but I am going
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to ask, given how many stories we've had lately about authors behaving erratically,
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do you think it's relevant that she's a writer? Okay? I did.
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Actually I read this case as well and thought it was just crazy. But
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it's so interesting how writers have to work out their guilt and through their books,
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right, Like they almost always write a blog or a book or a
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novel, a children's novels, new but my goodness, my children's self help
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book basically yeah, hers self help, Yeah, children's self help. Like,
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I don't know. I don't think any of them are going to get
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away with it because they keep writing about it and confessing on the page.
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I am starting to wonder if there's you know, when we're writing stories,
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we basically shaped the world, the fictional world, to be the way we
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want it is that I mean, bad enough to allegedly commit a crime but
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then use it as the foundation. It's like you're just for a book.
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You're just drawing attention to yourself, right, you're I mean, it's just
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it's bizarre. I mean, even didn't O J. Simpson right, like,
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I didn't do it? Yeah, yeah I did it. I did
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it. Yeah I did God I forgot So I don't know. I'm just
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saying, if you're an author and you're thinking about killing somebody, you might,
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you know, figure yourself out here before you do it, because it's
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a weird phenomenon that, I mean, and do some research like a murder.
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Someone who wrote mysteries or thrillers would know that they do autopsies on bodies
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and would discover that poison. Like come on, come on, Yeah,
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it's bizarre. If you're going to murder someone, be smart about it.
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Okay, that's that's all I'm saying. That's a lesson of this podcast.
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They would not have dateline if everybody that's right, what would all those murder
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shows would go away? Right? I should? You know. The story
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broke last week, but just three days ago we found out from court filings
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that the woman in question, the author, learned two days after her husband's
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death that she was not named in his will. She is, however,
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the beneficiary of some life insurance policies. So but of course that raises all
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new issues because most states have laws prohibiting people from profiting from murder. I'm
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glad those kids are gonna hird a lot of money because I think they're going
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to need therapy. Absolutely absolutely, all right, sick, you don't just
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divorce somebody. But okay, that's a lot simpler, wouldn't okay. News
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story number two, TikTok, or specifically their parent Byte Dance, has filed
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a trademark for a new publishing venture. Now you've heard us talk more than
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once about the huge influence of TikTok and the subdivision book talk, which has
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had a huge role in promoting books and has shot some authors, Colleen Hoover
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being the obvious one but not the only one, shot them to the top
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of the best seller list. Well, yougo and Barnes and Noble now and
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you'll see tables that say recommended on TikTok or something like that. And now
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apparently they're going to take it a step further because byt Dance has filed a
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trademark for something they're calling eight Note Press. Which is an app they say,
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to quote, read, download and discuss fiction ebooks in an online community,
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plus retail bookstore services, audio books, print and digital publishing, audiobooks,
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and physical books, and also giving people a space to comment at it.
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So it sounds like this app would put TikTok into direct competition with Amazon,
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not only as a publisher and distributor of a book of books, but
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also puts the put puts them in competition with good Reads, which of course
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is owned by Amazon, as a social platform for people who want to talk
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about books. All right, Renee, I'm going to pick on you because
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you have come clean and admitted to your major TikTok addiction. All right,
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do you think this is going to take off? I don't know, I
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am What's funny is you know I love TikTok, but I'm too lazy to
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go get on another social media platform, so I only watch it if it's
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been posted on Instagram, So you know, I don't know younger. Younger
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people though, will jump on the newest app. So and this is more
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designed towards the younger crowd. I'm done with more and more apps. I've
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got mine. That's the end. That's what I goes tick with you use
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zeroed in on the best part though. I think if it does get young
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people reading, yeah, then absolutely absolutely. Am I the only one who's
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seen you know? It was? It was nostalgic. I'll use that word
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for me. When I saw kids start turning back to vinyl, like,
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oh, I'm so retro. I'm listening to records and it's one and I
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think, yeah, except I'm old enough to remember why we abandoned vinyl and
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the pops and cracks and hisses and scratches and all that. But now I'm
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seeing kids running around like, oh my gosh, look, I'm reading a
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book made of paper. Absolutely well, you don't you get that wonderful paper
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smell? Yeah, when you read a book. I don't get that anymore
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with my e reader. Amazon should sell a kindle that just releases the book
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smell everything. Amazon, get on that. Oh no, you should go
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go patent that trademarks trademarked Internet. I've trademarked at Sadly coming up with the
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idea isn't enough. You gotta go file So do that tonight? All right?
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Online? All right? Another thing I have to do today? All
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right, do we really need, Jesse another app where people can talk about
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books. Well, first of all, no, and also like apps that
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are specific to a thing never succeed. Like there's a reason why TikTok in
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general succeed is because you could do anything and talk about anything on it,
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like it became a good book talking thing. But if you make something just
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centered on that, I don't think people are thinking about interacting on those topics
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enough all the time to have its own separate app. But I've been wrong
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before, so we'll see. But it would be nice to think about people
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going to a book exclusive app like as often as they do Instagram. Yeah,
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yeah, I don't think good Reads has the hits that Instagram and TikTok
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have, So all right, Jesse, que up the music, let's talk
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to Susan Meisloe. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very happy
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to be here. Oh, thank you so much for being here. And
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of course later this year of writer coun of course traditional first question, if
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you could give writers one piece of advice sorted down from probably the forty seven
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or so that you could get them. But if you have to pick one,
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what's it going to be? You know, when I asked this question.
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There's like there's a lot of answers I could possibly give, and so
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the one I'm going to give today may not be the one I give tomorrow.
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But for today, I would say read the good stuff, because when
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you're a writer, what you're reading is feeding your writing brain. It's not
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just entertainment for you. You are really absorbing what you're reading into a different
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place in your brain because you're a writer. So you really don't have time
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for the fluff. And I don't mean you can't ever enjoy an entertainment like
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media for entertainment, just for entertainment's sake, but I would say that's for
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like you're viewing, like when you're when you're steaming on Netflix or one of
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the other services and you're watching a movie or something, then you can watch
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something that's just total total entertainment. Yeah, you're reading, just read the
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good stuff, and you probably know it. What reads good to you,
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it's the kind of thing that um like, you can tell that writer really
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put their heart or his heart and soul into that book. That's the that's
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the stuff you want to be reading, Just the good stuff that is so
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true. You know, often I hear people say no, I didn't read
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that, that's not what I write, or that's not this or that.
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But if somebody is a good writer, that's the main thing, right,
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And you never know what you're going to bring away from that. It's all
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going up in the brain somewhere and being stored till you need it, right,
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That's what I think. I think that you don't realize how much of
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that other writer's style and just the caliber of their writing that you are picking
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up on because you're thinking, I'm just reading this, but your writing brain
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is reading it too, and you need to be careful with it, nurture
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it because it Well, you have certainly done that, Susan. You've created
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what seems to me to be a blend of historical fiction and women's fiction that
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is not only wildly successful, obviously, but also unique to you. How
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did you come up with that? Well, when I first started out the
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writing gig, I didn't really know where I fit. I kind of had
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to find my way, which is not a bad way to go. I
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began writing in two thousand and three contemporary and kind of was like just testing
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the waters, I guess you could say. And then I wrote like three
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mysteries because I love mysteries. I love reading them, but they are really
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difficult. So my hat goes off to anybody that writes mystery. It's a
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tough one and so good, but really difficult. You'd be so careful all
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along the way. And then I stumbled into history fiction in two thousand and
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eight, and I think that's when I found my lane. It's what I
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guess maybe it might be what I write best. As far as critical reviews,
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they started to come in when I started writing historical fiction. And it's
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not that I particularly want my books to be seen as women's fiction. It's
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just that my protagonists are all female. And I guess because my ideal character
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is a woman only because she's my ideal reader. So I'm trying to appeal
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to my reader. I'm thinking market wise when I make that choice, but
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it's not just a market choice. I like reading books about women who encounter
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extraordinary events in their lives and they navigate them and they come away different,
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stronger, a better human being. There's lots of different ways a character can
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grow and change, but I'm finding my favorite books are usually with strong female
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characters or characters who find out how strong they are. That's so good season.
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That's such wise words from a pro because it's a it's a gentle way
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of saying right from your soul. But don't forget your reader right, and
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it takes a long time to find that. So wise wise words. So
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tell us, tell us about only the beautiful. Okay, Well, this
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book took me to the mat. I explained that in the author's note.
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I had to start it I think three or four times. It was quite
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the odyssey. Part of it might have been because I wrote it during the
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pandemic and that was a very unique time for all of us. It was
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kind of a I don't know, a little bit. It was a fearful
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time. It was a little bit creativity stumping time. And so out of
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that crucialble I wrote that book. And the other part was it was just
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a really difficult story subject matter. Whise it's about a movement we don't hear
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much about anymore. It's the eugenics movement, which was really quite popular in
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this country in the early part of the twentieth century, and it was about
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manipulating and control, rolling and managing the collective gene pool. And so it
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was very unfair to a great many people because the people in power began deciding
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and then controlling who could have children and who could not. And it's kind
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of shocking that we were doing that here in the United States. It's the
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exact same way that Hitler began his scheme and Nazi occupied Europe, and we
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know where he took that thinking. He took it to its absolute worst.
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And so it's a story not about true people, but true events. And
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because it's such a difficult subject where a lot of sad things happened, it
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was really important to me to keep hope in the pages. So I'm telling
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you right now it is not a book that will have you running to hide
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all the sharp objects about some really tough things that really happened. I do
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leave lots of room for hope and light. And as difficult as the world
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can be, or should I say, as difficult as we can be to
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each other, there are still wonderful people in the world and there in this
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book too. Hm. That's so good. So that I love that,
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and I love knowing you personally. You're such a such an ambassador for hope,
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and so that doesn't surprise me that that would be infused also in your
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book. But tell us about how you drew up your characters in this book
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Roseanne and Helen. Right, where did you draw them from? I mean,
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you've talked generally about your characters, but these must have come from a
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deep place. Yeah. With Roseanne, she's a younger protagonist in a story
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that involves two women, one young, one middle age. I guess you
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could call the other one Helen, and Roseanne is patterned after a real person.
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Her name is Carrie buck She was a victim of this movement, the
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Eugenics movement. She was living in Virginia, born in nineteen oh six,
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so when she was in her teenage year, a target fell on her back
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too. And I don't want to spoil the story by telling you too much
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about Carrie book, but I did not tell Carrie Buck's story beyond that because
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it's just too sad. Nothing good happened to her because of this movement,
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And so I patterned m Roseanne after Carrie Bucket. She's not Carrie Buckets,
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not Carrie Buck's story. So that's where the motivation came for Roseanne's character.
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When she when the book opens up, she's seventeen, unmarried, an orphan,
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and she's got a sensory anomaly called synesthesia, which was not well understood
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back then, and so that puts a target on her back by these people
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who thought eugenics was all about having only perfect people being born, and it
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is a hereditary condition. So that's that's how Roseanne came to be. Helen
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is really me in the story. She's, for lack of a better word,
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I thought, if I were able to somehow insert myself into the life
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of somebody who was being victimized by this program, what can I do to
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help them? She's a mother at heart, even though she is not a
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mother. She's a nanny. She has mothered many children, and she's an
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ex pat working as a nanny and occupied Vienna, and so she sees eugenic
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thinking at its absolute worst. And she comes back from the war changed person,
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and she knows Roseanne. They've met her brother. Helen's brother lives on
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the vineyard that had been Roseanne's home, and she's going to find out what
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happened to Roseanne, and then she's going to want to move heaven and earth
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to find her to be able to do something good for that person. So
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that's me that's me in the story, really, Carol, You're always there
22:44
somewhere, right. I won't spoil too much, but I've been working on
22:48
a book that revives one of my previous series characters, really in a secondary
22:56
role. But after so long, I had forgot how much of myself I
23:00
had put in the character. It's hard to even write a scene where you
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know, he isn't the one that says the clever thing or does the brilliant
23:07
thing in the courtroom or whatever, because that's me. He's supposed to be
23:12
the star. It's really not okay for us to show up in our characters
23:17
because they emerge out of our brain. And so there's going to be a
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little bit of you. And everybody you create, even your antagonist, you
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know, there's going to be a little bit of you. And that's okay.
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You got to find a connection, a way in to understand the character.
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I totally get that. So, just to be clear, this book
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is set historically, as we said, but it's pre during and a little
23:40
bit post World War Two, right, So you must have so you must
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have done an enormous amount of research for this. I knew nothing really about
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the eugenics movement, so I had to educate myself on that, and there's
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a really good book about it, a nonfiction work. It's kind of the
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definitive work on the eugenics movement, my Alexandra Ministern. It's called Eugenic Name,
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wonderful book. And so that was a learning process. And then also
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synesthesia. I don't have it, so I had to find people that did
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and talk to them about that condition. And that was really exciting and wonderful
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and opened my eyes too, how beautiful the world could be if you could
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just see it differently. And I love that's a metaphor for opening our eyes
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to see more than just what we look like when we look in the mirror.
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I love that you said you didn't just read about it. You talked
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to people so important in research on those types of things, and like you
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said, really over your eyes and is always a valuable experience just as a
24:40
person. I found so okay. And then the setting is partly in Austria,
24:49
part in California. So you picked California as that because of where you
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have lived for many years or what was the reasoning for them? Partly it
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was that I know the state, but the bigger reason and this is a
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sad reason, is that more people were forcibly sterilized in California than any other
25:12
state. It's my home state. California sterilized like twenty thousand individuals over I
25:21
guess a five decade period, and no other state comes close. And so
25:25
these are people who were in California state institutions for one reason or another.
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Back then, there were a lot of reasons why somebody shouldn't have been sent
25:33
to an institution. But some of us didn't know how to take care of
25:38
children that were born to us with different kinds of you know, capabilities.
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A lot of people would send their down syndrome children to live in institutions.
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Now we know better how to care for people at home, but back then,
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a lot of people were institutionalized who wouldn't be today. And those were
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the people they were forcibly sterilizing. So that's why californ I chose it because
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I know it and because of the amount of for sterilizations that happened there.
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And then the California Vineyard was I wanted a place that was very sensorial because
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Rosanne has a sensory anomaly, and a California vineyard there's a lot to see
26:18
here, smell, taste, and touch, and so all of that worked
26:22
really well for me. So in this book, you've got two different protagonists,
26:29
two different places and times at least, but your story is fundamentally about
26:34
mothers and daughters, it seemed to me or the relationship between mothers and daughters.
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Was this a conscious choice or is something that emerged while you were writing
26:44
it. It was a conscious choice, mainly because when I know thematically what
26:49
I'm trying to do, that's kind of like what guides me as I'm writing.
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It's really hard when you lose your way as you're writing, and I've
26:56
done that. I have lost my way with other books. And so if
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I know from the forefront thematically what is this book about. If I find
27:04
that I'm losing my way as I'm writing, I just remind myself this is
27:07
a book about the love between mothers and their children, or mother figures and
27:12
child figures, and so that kind of reorients me if I lose my way.
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And the other thing is I do have a great majority of my readers
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are female. That doesn't mean they all have children, but they all had
27:25
mothers, and so I feel like I can tap into a lot of the
27:30
sensitivities of my reader by having that very common thing, you know, not
27:34
very me. Many people have synesthesia that all of my readers were born to
27:40
somebody, and that makes a really large a large like rivulat I guess of
27:45
commonality between us. Well, it sounds sounds amazing, and but I do
27:56
want to shift to writing process because that we do have a lot of writers
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listening. Um. Now, I happen to know the answer to what I'm
28:07
getting ready to ask season answer to keep things exciting around here unless things have
28:15
changed. We have been surprised on occasion we have absolutely it's usually me creating
28:22
an awkward moment. But the question is are you a panser or a planner?
28:30
Now, Susan and I have I hope you remember this season we have
28:33
actually taught a class together, yeah, on this subject, as have Bill
28:38
and I thought this class. Um, I'm I love being the resident panswer.
28:45
I'm assuming, Um, But what was interesting is I heard you talking
28:52
about how you have lost your way in books. Now I have made what
28:56
apparently is an assumption that planners never use their way in a book. So
29:02
talk a little bit about that. You are an outline or still right,
29:06
I am, But I have evolved since we taught that class, oh so
29:11
many months ago. I now say when people ask that question, I say,
29:18
I outline by the seat of my pants. I knew outline. I
29:25
began to work with a map of where I think I'm going to go,
29:29
and that helps me get started. Otherwise I wouldn't know where to start,
29:33
and then I wouldn't know where I was going if I didn't know where I
29:37
wanted to end up. So I do outline like I did back in the
29:41
day when we taught that class. I still outline just like that, but
29:45
it's very fluid now. It changes a lot when I'm writing. And the
29:48
cool thing about that is everything that you enjoy as a panser, that discovery,
29:53
that intuitive thing that kind of takes over as you're writing. I get
29:57
experienced that now too, because as I'm riding, I'm always open to discovery.
30:03
So I have an idea of what I want to have happen in chapter
30:07
three, and so I'll begin it, maybe even at the point where I
30:10
thought it would probably begin. But then I'm ready for anything and everything to
30:14
change, and so that's when I can lose my way is if I start
30:18
deviating from that an outline and then I'm so far afield of it that I'm
30:23
not really sure where I'm headed anymore. That can be a scary thing for
30:27
a former outliner like me, who is now really somewhere in the middle of
30:33
those two extremes. But it suits me now. It fits me now.
30:37
But I also think that in the beginning one I was kind of a new
30:41
fiction writer. I needed that outline. I needed the map because I didn't
30:45
know how to drive the car. It's like, I need everything to be
30:48
able to navigate my way through a story, and the first thing I had
30:52
to have was on map. And now I'm okay with getting in the car
30:56
and just seeing where the road takes me, but I still kind of have
31:00
to have that map in the glove box. It still has to be there.
31:03
That's great. I love it. And so what are some tips that
31:11
you have for writers? And I love that you're speaking of evolving. We
31:18
do evolve as writers. You and I have been writing for over twenty years.
31:22
I think that might be how long we've known each other too. But
31:29
what are what are some tips in this phase of your career that you have
31:36
or you would love to share. Well, First and foremost is that as
31:41
you continue to write more and more and more, especially if you've been at
31:45
it for maybe a decade or more, don't be surprised if it starts to
31:51
feel like it's getting harder and not easier, because a lot of pursuits,
31:56
the more you do it, the better you get at it, and so
31:59
the more proficient you feel and the easier the task. Is if I were
32:01
a swimmer and I began swimming, and I could barely swim a lap in
32:07
the pool, and all of a sudden, ten years later, I'm just
32:09
smoking those laps. You know, I'm a mile now and I'm still winded,
32:15
but I can do it and it's not hard. Writing, on the
32:17
other hand, seems like to me that it's gotten harder the more I've done
32:22
it, not easier, And that scared me a little bit at first.
32:25
I started to feel like a hack, or that I was losing my edge
32:30
or I'd fall out of my groove. But what it really was is that
32:34
I'm raising the bar each time I write, so it's a different pool.
32:38
Every time I go in the water. I'm not swimming the same mile.
32:43
It's different each time, because you begin with a blank piece of paper and
32:47
I don't even think cursor's blink anymore. But we used to say a whole
32:54
lot of nothing, and that be daunting, especially if you've been doing it
33:01
for a while. You're thinking, why isn't this getting any easier. I'm
33:05
here to tell you it's okay if it's not getting easier. I would love
33:09
to talk with you if it is getting easier, and that it is okay
33:15
for you to feel like I'm I'm I'm not getting You are getting better at
33:20
it, not getting easier. If that makes sense, it's because you keep
33:22
challenging yourself and trying new things. Don't you think you're not writing this same
33:27
book over? You know, in my past life as a trial wirier.
33:31
Everybody's super nervous before a trial starts, particularly if it's your first one.
33:37
And it gets easier each time. And I've heard people say I didn't stick
33:39
around long enough. But I've heard people say that at some point that nervousness
33:44
goes away, and I think, and that's when you should quit, because
33:49
if that has a function, you know, that keeps you on your toes
33:52
and keeps you alert and make sure, you do the preparation, and I
33:55
feel the same way about books. It comes up, you know, if
33:59
it's too weak, easy, you're doing what you've done before. Yeah,
34:04
well said, well, of course, we've already talked about the fact that
34:08
you're coming to writer Con this year. You're our keynote speaker on Friday,
34:14
the very first day of the conference. Plus you're speaking and tell us a
34:17
little bit about that. I know we're not the only conference on your schedule,
34:22
but we're clearly the most important one. So I really, honestly I
34:27
can't wait to come back to Oklahoma. My son went to owe you and
34:30
so I have very very fond memories of me. Yeah, you went to
34:34
law school at ou me too. Well, how fun? Actually some time
34:39
in chat. Yes, I can't wait to come and visit with all of
34:43
you. And the reason why I do writers conferences is I was once where
34:47
new writers are now, and people spoke into my life and showed me the
34:53
ropes. And I'm so so grateful because you can read great books on the
34:58
craft and all of that, but writers conferences they're kind of singularly the most
35:05
influential thing you can do for yourself as our writers to go to a conference
35:07
and be around other writers and be around writers who want to help you.
35:13
Usually faculty at writers conferences, they're there because they want to help you become
35:17
a college author, and that's just a great place to be. So I'll
35:22
be teaching on plotting your novel from start to finish, and so it is
35:24
a little bit of a class on outlining. But because I've told you how
35:30
I outline, now, it's also going to be to show you how to
35:32
open yourself up to discovery as you write. So it's kind of a way
35:37
of envisioning your novel before you write it, so that you have that map
35:44
in the glove box as you're writing. So I'm really excited too. I
35:46
share that with everybody. Oh that sounds terrific. All right, one last
35:51
question. Only the Beautiful is a hit and you've got fabulous reviews. What
35:55
next? Oh my goodness? Well written at children's book. It's my first,
36:01
and yes, it's called Pumpkin Day at the Zoo and it's a picture
36:06
book. It's thirty two pages of fun and verse. The story is told
36:12
in verse and there are no tissues required. Most of my books will have
36:15
you crying at some point, but not you spared the four year olds.
36:20
That's really nice. It's often and it comes out in July, and I
36:24
can't wait to share that with all Oh cool, we'll have copies at writer
36:28
Con then I would be happy to have to share that with everybody there.
36:34
It was a really fun project. But the book I'm writing next for my
36:37
adult readers is doesn't have a name yet, but it's set in the nineteen
36:40
fifties, post World War Two, at a time when you would think the
36:44
world would be much at peace after having such a terrible period of strife during
36:50
World War Two. But the fifties were rather difficult, actually, and mainly
36:52
was because it was the beginning of the Cold War and so and there's a
36:58
great many people who were dps just play people, and they're living in that
37:01
world and they're homeless. And so it's a story about displacement, and not
37:06
just the DPS, two hundred thousand of which came to America because they could
37:10
not return home, either because there was no home to return to, or
37:15
returning home and subjugating yourself to Soviet rule. And so it's about it's about
37:22
that, and it's about what does it feel like when everything that constituted home
37:25
for you is suddenly gone. How do you reclaim your sense of belonging?
37:30
Which is a very wide thematic statement about the book, But it is about
37:35
people, not about topics, and so these people are all dealing with displacement
37:39
of one kind or another. Sounds very intriguing. Camp Wait, Susan,
37:46
thanks so much for being on the podcast, My pleasure. Just a few
37:51
parting words. As you've probably already been able to tell, we're getting excited
37:57
about ryde or Con. It's summer and we're not that far away. It's
38:00
September first through fourth, that's Labor Day weekend in Oklahoma City. We have
38:06
more than sixty almost seventy prisoners lined up, best roster of agents we've ever
38:10
had, including movie TV agents as well as book agents and publishers and much
38:16
much more. And Renee, of course, as we've said, is always
38:21
in charge of the pitches. You have never seen it run so well.
38:25
If you've been to other conferences, you will be impressed. Not only are
38:30
you not limited to like one minute or possibly two, you got a good
38:36
ten minutes at least. Plus of course, you see people in the hallways
38:38
and at dinner and whatnot. But it's just a wonderful experience. Renee.
38:45
Do you have any favorite stories about pitching at ryder con Um. Well,
38:51
we've had a lot of people come away with some success and good contacts,
38:55
publishers kind of thing. I will say, I'm going to give some advice
39:01
if if you if you're coming to writer con and you're interested in these,
39:07
read the newsletters and instructions on how to sign up for them and what's going
39:13
on. We're going to do things a little more efficiently this year, a
39:16
little differently, So make sure you're reading the material that Bill is sending out
39:21
to you so you're not confused at the last minute and I don't know what's
39:24
going on, although if you are, Renelle, so I will help anybody.
39:32
But it will make these go more smoothly for you if you read that
39:37
material. And while you're talking, Renee, how's that script doing you submitted
39:43
to the stagecraft? Is that what it's called? Screencraftcraft? That craft?
39:47
Yeah, it made it to the semi finals. So whoooo, you're excited
39:52
about that. So we'll see what happens if fingers crossed. Good work,
39:58
all right, everybody, dreams really do come true for writers. But first
40:04
you get us with Dad and write right and get the knowledge you need to
40:07
make it successful. Until next time, keep writing and remember you cannot fail
40:15
if you're used to quit. See it next time.