Latest / True Comfort / Insecurities, Illness, and the Indescribable Beauty of God's Truth with Megan Almon
Transcript
- Teasi Cannon (00:01) Hi, I'm TC and I want to welcome you to true comfort where it's our desire to live out 2nd Corinthians chapter 1 verses 3 and 4 which assure us that we have a God who comforts us in all our afflictions and encourage us to comfort others with the comfort that we've received. And I also want to welcome my guest Megan Alman. Megan, thank you so much for being here with us. Megan (00:25) It is an honor to be with you. Teasi Cannon (00:28) So I'm gonna read your bio for listeners to introduce you and so, and I'm reading from my phone, so forgive me for being, it's tiny print. So, Megan is a former University of Georgia gymnast, worked as an award-winning journalist until 2008. And she decided to pursue a career speaking and teaching about Christian apologetics in the areas, especially in the areas of pro-life apologetics, bioethics. Megan (00:37) Yep. Teasi Cannon (00:57) and aesthetics. She joined ⁓ Life Training Institute in 2009 and was awarded a Master's of Arts degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University in 2011. She worked with Scott Klusendorf at Life Training Institute until 2024 when she began working with and speaking with the team at Apologetics Inc. She started an exciting new chapter in 2025. She started an exciting new chapter as a Stand to Reason speaker. Megan and her husband Tripp, Stand to Reason outpost coordinator, have been married since 2003 and have two children. And though she was born and raised in Georgia, she and Tripp spent seven years in Manitou. I am doing a horrible job reading this, you guys, so sorry. Manitou, is it Manitou or Manito? How do you say Manito? Is it Manito? Manito Springs, Colorado, where Tripp ran Summit Ministries gap year program. Megan (01:45) It's Manitou, Manitou, yeah. Teasi Cannon (01:51) She enjoys spending time with her family on the road and ⁓ at home in Colorado and is still known to practice handstands in her living room. So she has spoken at high school and college assemblies and classrooms, conferences, youth organizations, women's groups, pregnancy care centers, congregation, and legislators both nationally and internationally. Well, you don't look old enough to actually have done all of those things. But what a wonderful journey. Megan (02:21) going to just natural lighting maybe. don't know. I'm sitting by a window. I assure you I am. Teasi Cannon (02:23) Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that you can still do a handstand. I'm really impressed about that. But also I'm and I was also a journalism major. This is way back in the late in the late 80s, early 90s. And so I I'm sure you feel the same way I do when you see contemporary journalism today. It is so different than what I was trained to do. I remember our all my instructors, you would basically fail your assignment if your reader could tell your opinion at all. Like if there was any known bias with any adjective, any noun you chose, any word that showed what you think as a journalist, they would scrap the entire article. Haven't we come a long way since that? Megan (03:14) such a long way and haven't we learned so much about what drives the storytelling out there? Teasi Cannon (03:19) Yes, exactly. So I have never met you in person, but I am a huge fan of Stand to Reason and Greg Kockel and the other speakers. I've learned so much from him. Also just want to say I'm going to leave a link in the show notes because Stand to Reason not only will give information on how to find Megan, but also incredible free courses and blog posts and the student conference, which I know we were talking before we went on air that you just got off the road with the very first reality. What is the theme this year? Megan (03:54) Yeah, Reality Student Apologetics Conference and the theme this year is all about worldviews. So what is the Christian worldviews? There are so many different worldviews, but there's only one true story of reality. Teasi Cannon (04:00) Perfect. Yes, and it's a beautiful story and it's a hope-filled story. I went to one of those student conferences years ago and loved it and so I highly recommend checking those out for parents of teens and leaders of teens. So yeah, so I will leave that information but I wanna remind listeners that each week the point of my podcast is that I wanna invite a guest who has intentionally studied the evidence for this beautiful story, the evidence for the biblical worldview, to open up their heart, to share with us from their personal life a situation of heartbreak or maybe an ongoing struggle, a situation where they're hurting, but then to tell us how God comforts them and why they trust that God's promises and God's comfort is trustworthy and that his promises are not empty. And the prayer is that as we listen, we will see that we are not alone in experiencing suffering and hardship as Christians, that we've actually been promised that this world will include them, but that we will also see that we're not fools for believing God's word, for finding our hope anchored in what he says, that we will also be encouraged and equipped with more tools and our own tool belts to navigate future pain in our own lives and also to be able to comfort and encourage people and others, friends, family members who are hurting and need it. And I also just want to say one more thing before I, ⁓ before we hear from Megan is that these conversations are not scripted. So I always just like to let listeners know that the content can be very heavy and painful. So just want to give that sort of heads up and Also just want to thank Megan one more time for accepting my invitation to come and encourage us in this way. So at that, I am going to just let you start where you would like to with what's on your heart to share. Megan (06:11) Goodness, okay. When I was even prayerfully thinking about this, my mind went in three different directions, so maybe we'll work through those things. I have one instance in my life that was ⁓ filled with what felt like an intense rejection, but then I have some ongoing struggles that I wanna talk about, but how the Lord has met me in those, because I think that is encouraging. Teasi Cannon (06:19) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Megan (06:38) We're encouraged as the body of Christ and by one another. But I have to start back with what drew me to Christian apologetics to begin with. My background was a little bit different than some who come to this great discipline. ⁓ think that I was an art major first, so I was painting and drawing and I was the one drawing self-portraits when my pre-med classmates were doing pre-calculus. ⁓ even though was good at calculus. I do remember that, but I remember that I wanted to write stories ⁓ between art and writing. That's where my heart was. And so I finished my degree in journalism and I was actually working at a newspaper when I was introduced ⁓ to Christian apologetics in a way that I could love it. ⁓ My husband was already interested. My husband, Tripp, who also works with Stand to Reason. but his questions were not my questions. So the apologetics questions that he was trying to seek answers for dealt much more with heavy science, creation, all of these types of things. And those were not the questions that I had. And so I remember he used to ask me, do you wanna listen to this lecture with me? Do you wanna read this book with me? And I would think, no, I'm good. Teasi Cannon (07:38) Mm. Ha ha! Megan (08:05) You go ahead, I'm gonna read my Jane Austen or whatever I've got over here, my fun book. ⁓ But when I was working at that newspaper, I went to cover a pregnancy resource center banquet one night. I was not even supposed to go. The girl who was supposed to go wound up going on a date. And so my editor came out at the last minute and said, Megan, I need you to go cover this event, take a camera. There's free food. That's all I got. So I called. Teasi Cannon (08:09) Mm-hmm. Nice, nice, yeah. Megan (08:34) My husband to say I'm gonna be late coming home. I went to the event and the speaker that night was Scott Klusendorf. ⁓ He presented a pro-life apologetic. So reasons for why the pro-life ⁓ view is true as it is housed in the larger Christian worldview. And I sat there that night and was just completely undone. I was already following Jesus. I was already pro-life. I would have called myself pro-life. Teasi Cannon (08:40) Hmm. Hmm. Megan (09:03) but I had no idea how to explain it. And what I saw standing on that stage was someone who seemed just unflappable. It was as if you could ask him any question and it wouldn't have mattered what the question was, but he wasn't going to be rattled by the question. And I thought, that's what I want to be like. I want that so badly and I want to tell those types of stories. So what wrapped up with me was Teasi Cannon (09:24) Mm-hmm. Megan (09:31) or what drew me in was really that he was talking about ⁓ human dignity. He was talking about human questions. He was talking about what it means to be valuable as human beings. And ⁓ that hit my tuning fork so hard, I can still feel it. ⁓ So one thing led to another. I did wind up going back to school with the support of my wonderful husband and my little daughter at that time. I now have a daughter and a son. Teasi Cannon (09:39) Mm-hmm. Wow, yeah, yeah. Megan (10:01) And I did begin working for Scott. He likes to tell the story that I bugged him until he hired me. ⁓ Well, it may be true. I was definitely persistent. ⁓ I just wanted to learn from him. And so ⁓ that's what drew me into the pro-life apologetics. And everything I do now is just either. Teasi Cannon (10:08) That's funny. Hahaha Mm-hmm. Megan (10:25) within that field that's my home base, because at the bottom it talks about what does it mean to be human and what does it mean to be valuable. And then the other areas that I've kind of dived into from there are certainly adjacent to those pro-life apologetics that I learned originally. ⁓ And so here I am. But gosh, when we think about hard things that we walk through, there There are so many, sometimes it's the small bumps we run into day to day, sometimes it's the ongoing things, sometimes it's just stuff that happens to us and we didn't expect it, it comes out of nowhere. ⁓ For about 10 years when I was living in Georgia still, I was a pastor's wife. And we walked through a season where we left a church that my husband had been part of soon after it had been planted. Teasi Cannon (10:52) Mm-hmm. Megan (11:14) ⁓ And it was really a natural course of events. The church began to go in one direction that wasn't necessarily unhealthy. It just wasn't what it set out to be. And my husband was still very much about the vision that the church had begun with. And so during that season, he made the difficult decision that we just need to step away because the rest of the leadership wants to go this way. And if we have division in the leadership, that will cause division in the church. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (11:24) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Megan (11:43) And so we did, but that was very much our, family that we knew, that we loved, that we did life with, that we'd raised our kids beside, all of those things. And I don't know why it is that in here and now, when you step away from a ministry or anything like that, if there's some kind of separation that happens, there are many assumptions that are made about why. And it was a season where we felt like there was this Teasi Cannon (11:49) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Megan (12:11) just this intense rejection because of some of those assumptions ⁓ and just hard. And I remember holding at the time my baby boy on my front porch on the swing my husband had built for me, like my little peaceful spot, and just crying out to the Lord about that time, why would they think this of us? And God, why would you let them do this? And all the things I'm asking and I'm asking and I'm asking, Teasi Cannon (12:14) Yeah. Megan (12:41) my own voice in my head being so loud. ⁓ And I just remember at that time, ⁓ Scott, very much a friend and mentor to me, told me something that stuck with me. He said, anytime you walk through something this difficult, you have to make room for it without letting it consume you entirely. Teasi Cannon (12:44) Mm-hmm. Megan (13:06) That was great advice. ⁓ Sometimes I think we forget, you know, we forget that we have to be joyful all the time. We've got to be able to say yes to all the things. But when we walk through a season like that, it takes up space within us. ⁓ And that's a natural part of that. And so we might not have as much capacity for other things. And I was already, you know, mom of young children and all of that. So that advice has stuck with me through many seasons since then. Teasi Cannon (13:19) Yes. Mm-hmm. right. Megan (13:35) But the day that I was sitting on the porch crying out to the Lord, ⁓ I did not hear an audible voice from God or anything like that. But I had a thought that seemed loud because it came to the forefront of my mind in such a way that it hushed everything else. And the thought clear as day was this, child, do you think that I don't know what it means to be misunderstood? Teasi Cannon (13:51) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Megan (14:08) And that led me back. That led me back to what I know. Teasi Cannon (14:08) He. Megan (14:14) I think I got up and went and got my Bible and started reading through one of the Gospels again, looking at it through that lens. Jesus, how many times were you misunderstood in your interactions with people ⁓ by your own guys, by your own disciples, with the religious leaders who you were trying to preach a saving grace to, you know, all of those things and was just brought back to. Teasi Cannon (14:19) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Megan (14:43) knowing that we are not alone in those seasons when we feel misunderstood. ⁓ That was the first major, major thing that came to mind when you asked about seasons of hardship, seasons of pain. And those lessons just happened time and time again. Teasi Cannon (14:58) Mm-hmm. Megan (15:03) And I still can remember what it felt like to have that thought come boom to the forefront of my mind and everything else go silent. Teasi Cannon (15:12) I think that was a really beautiful way of describing that because it can be so problematic to say, God said this or that. We want to really avoid misunderstanding our own subjective feelings but the way you describe that, just this thought that just all other thoughts left, it was very distinct and it reminded you of something about Christ and His word. I love the way you... you described that process. And ⁓ I just want to say I completely understand. I don't want to talk about my story. This is about you, but and I love what Scott said about making space because it. There are things in our lives that you need space for. There's a lot to understand. What you went through, I was at a church for 23 years that, I don't know if you've ever seen anything about my story, but that's a pretty significant part of my story too. And it's very confusing. You have a lot of feelings and a lot of things that are out of your control that you can't change. And that's hard in and of itself. So giving that space to walk through is such wisdom. ⁓ Megan (16:26) Well, I'm grateful for that. And I think that really the demonstration there is what we have such an intimate connection with the Holy Spirit who indwells us. And so I do think that the way he works is to bring to mind very true things that we know. ⁓ You we're loving the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. So where the apologetics wraps into that is that any time Teasi Cannon (16:37) Mm-hmm. Right. Megan (16:54) my feelings, which can be all over the place, which typically happen to me. I don't have a ton of control over them. ⁓ And I've had friends ask me this, Megan, what do I do when I don't feel the presence of God or the love of God or that He's right there comforting me or all those things? My encouragement is it's those moments when we go back to what we know to be true. So if apologetics Teasi Cannon (17:02) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Megan (17:22) that whole discipline, the stepping into it, the learning of it, ⁓ just figuring out reasons for why do I think this? Why do I believe this? If they have helped with anything, it is that most of all. It's wait, wait, wait. When everything around is crazy or everything inside feels like I've lost a grip on things, what do I know to be true? ⁓ And back to the reasons as to why. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (17:37) Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Megan (17:52) So I remember that, that was early on, that I was young when that happened. I was still a student at ⁓ Biola or had just really finished that program. And Scott was very much bringing me up into how do we talk about Christian apologetics? ⁓ But I'm grateful, grateful for that lesson and how it's brought me through. ⁓ As far as ongoing things, I feel like I'm gonna talk about one that that maybe a lot of people experience and then another that not as many perhaps. have lifelong, I have struggled with anxiety and it's typically tied to some pretty deep insecurities, which I've learned along the way is a very sneaky form of pride. And I can talk more about that if you want me to. Teasi Cannon (18:44) Mmm. Yeah, please do. I think it's important that we all understand that because it doesn't seem like it would be pride to be insecure. So yeah, I'd love for you to share whatever you'd like to about that. Megan (18:56) Right. It can be masked as a kind of false humility, I think. And so, gosh, a couple places where I learned this best, one was a very, very good friend of mine who loved me enough to tell me the truth about myself when she saw this happening. ⁓ But another was the late great Tim Keller wrote a tiny booklet. I think it was actually a sermon transcript called The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness. Yes. Teasi Cannon (19:28) I've read that. Mm-hmm. Megan (19:30) Game changer, game changer for me Teasi Cannon (19:31) Yes. Very good. Megan (19:33) and for ⁓ the way that I would talk about this. So let me talk about the way he phrased it and then I can, how did this play out in my own life? When he talked about insecurity, he was also in the Corinthians. I think he was in first Corinthians because we talked about second Corinthians a minute ago with the verse that is the framework for really the way we do, you do the podcast. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (19:39) Sounds good. Mm-hmm. Megan (19:55) 1 Corinthians 3 and 4, as the Corinthians were arguing with one another over where they had received the gospel and were really trying to one up each other. And so he's kind of couched his lesson there. And ⁓ the way that Paul steps into that fray and says, hey, stop, this is clearly my paraphrase version, right? Paul's like, stop it. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (20:16) Yeah. Yeah. Megan (20:22) And then Paul goes on to say some interesting things. He uses courtroom language. He says, ⁓ I'm really not worried if I'm judged by any human court. In other words, again, my paraphrase, Paul's saying, I don't really care that much about what you think about me. Teasi Cannon (20:41) Yeah. Megan (20:42) And if that were not enough, he goes on to say, in fact, I don't really care that much about what I think about me. And he went on to say that what's most true is what Christ has said of me. It's there, you can go and read ⁓ end of chapter three, beginning of chapter four. But when Tim Keller wrote that little booklet, he kind of frames it in such a way that he's talking about our egos, human ego, and he starts by talking about our bodies, because we believe in. Teasi Cannon (21:09) Mm-hmm. Megan (21:15) The Christian worldview tells us we are body and soul. Those are interconnected in wonderful and mysterious ways. You're not one or the other. That's too small of a view of what it means to be human. But he said, you know what? You don't really think about your elbows every day when you wake up. Like you don't wake up in the morning going, God, I am so thankful for my elbows today. They are amazing, right? Or my middle toe or whatever part of the body you think about. Teasi Cannon (21:17) Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I can honestly say I don't do that. Right, right. Megan (21:43) He said, the reason you don't do that is because it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. The only time we think about our elbows is when we hurt our elbow. If you bump your elbow or you, worse, you break your elbow, you injure your elbow, it's all you can think about because it hurts. He went on to compare that to the ego. And he said, it's very easy to spot an overinflated ego. You know, that's easy to spot. That's pride in an obvious way. That's arrogance. Teasi Cannon (21:51) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Megan (22:11) The thing that's a little bit harder to spot is the under inflated ego or the deflated ego. He said, it's still an injured ego. It's still painful. ⁓ but just like that elbow, when it is painful, it's all you can think about. So insecurity is that, is that type of pride? It's not an intentional pride. No, no one who's insecure. I don't think he's trying to be prideful, but it's because it's an injured ego. Teasi Cannon (22:26) Wow. Yeah. Megan (22:40) And that's all you can think about. So really, I'm thinking about me. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (22:44) Right, is that your definition? Is that how you would define pride in general? pride is... Megan (22:49) gosh. Yeah, pride is a self-focused kind of outlook. I'm sure there are different ways or different iterations that can take on, but this is one of them. ⁓ I'm thinking about me in such a way that I'm not able to fully engage or be present or think about what's right in front of me or who's right in front of me, which is why I think Lewis phrases gospel human. Teasi Cannon (22:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, right. Mm-hmm. Megan (23:17) gospel humility the way that he does. It's not thinking more of myself or thinking less of myself. It's simply thinking of myself less. Teasi Cannon (23:21) Right. Yes, or even in line with what God says. You know, like not more than what God says, not less than what God says, and not all the time. Like, yes, all of it kind of combined is just not believing any definition of our own value and worth other than what God says, which does put you in a place of loving your neighbor. Megan (23:29) Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (23:50) and not focusing on self because we know our worth in as his image bearers. Yeah. Megan (23:56) Exactly. And it goes back to what Paul was saying. It's not what others think of me, right? Which we do to all too often. We live in a very functional value culture. can, mean, that's the work that I do, right? With the pro-life apologetic. ⁓ We are intrinsically valuable, but oftentimes we put those labels on ourselves too. We degrade ourselves because of things like comparison or what others have said of us or. Teasi Cannon (24:02) Mm-hmm. yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Megan (24:23) those feelings of rejection from that earlier story, things like that, when in reality, Paul's right. The thing that matters most is what he has declared of us. That is the most true thing about us. Teasi Cannon (24:35) so important. Megan (24:37) It is, it is. And the reason it's an ongoing struggle and maybe I'm preaching to the choir, I know I'm not alone in it. I've learned that. ⁓ my goodness. It's because it's so directly related to the gospel and none of us fully believe the gospel all the time. We need to be reminded all the time ⁓ of what God has done and what he has declared of us. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (24:46) Right, preach it, we need it. Wow. Yes. Yep. Megan (25:04) and not because of our own works, right? I'm in Ephesians right now. And so it's not us. It's nothing I did. I didn't earn it. I couldn't earn it, but he did all of it. ⁓ It's freeing and the moments that you have that clarity, but it is an ongoing struggle. And I'll connect it to ⁓ a story with my husband that brought it to the forefront of going, ⁓ I think I understand a little bit. Teasi Cannon (25:07) Right? Yes. Yeah. Hmm Megan (25:33) I've told this story with a lot of our students because again, they're caught up in this. Like the world that we live in is the temptation to compare ourselves or deem ourselves valuable or not valuable. Whatever it is, is so overwhelming because of the million and a half reasons the world puts on us to say why it thinks we matter. Right? I was just after giving birth to my daughter. I was 23 when she was born. Teasi Cannon (25:38) Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Right. Megan (26:02) I had been a competitive gymnast all way up to college, as my bio said. And so at 23, had a baby. My body did exactly what it was supposed to do, but body image hit me like a ton of bricks. I never had to think about it because I was training 20 hours a week, eating whatever I wanted, and now I had a baby. And that's what human bodies do. That's what women do. It's an incredible ability and gift that... Teasi Cannon (26:16) Hmm. Hmm. Right. Right. Megan (26:31) that we have and many women get to experience. ⁓ I remember that my husband would tell me that he thought I was beautiful and I would like snub him. would, I would, I'd say, whatever. I wouldn't outwardly say something, you know, mean or anything, but I would just reject it. And I was standing in front of our full length mirror, getting ready to go on a date with him, putting in an earring. This is how clear the memory is. Teasi Cannon (26:47) Right. Hmm. Megan (27:00) And I caught his eye, he was behind me in our room, looking at my reflection in the mirror and I'm putting my earring in and he said, Megan, you're so beautiful. And I did it again. I said, ⁓ okay, whatever. And I saw his face change and he looked at me in that reflection and he said, stop doing that. He said, every time you do that, it's as if you're accusing me of lying to you. And Megan, I don't lie to you. I'd hurt him with my refusal to believe that what he was saying was true because I refused to believe it of myself. That's the moment when it clicked for me that Keller's words, which I don't remember if I learned them then, like whatever happened in that moment, it was when I do that with what God says of me, it's as if I'm accusing God of lying to me and God doesn't lie. Teasi Cannon (27:42) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Megan (28:03) God is all good. He is the person, Christ is the person of truth. We know that from the book of John, I believe it's chapter 14, where he's talking to the I am statements. I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me. In the Greek, it looks like he's stuttering when he says it. Like the beginning of that is the ego a me. ⁓ It looks like he's saying, I am, and is really naming himself as. Teasi Cannon (28:14) Mm-hmm. Hmm, yeah. Megan (28:33) God. It's a statement of divinity, but He is the truth. ⁓ And so again, the things you experience, the things you feel or don't feel, taking those back to what you know to be true. ⁓ And then it's a fight to walk that out day in and day out. Teasi Cannon (28:34) Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I have no doubt many people are going to relate to that. I completely relate to that. I also have a sweet husband who has told me, you know, I've got three children and up, down, wider, narrower, all the years we've been married, you know, he'll say, you're so beautiful. And it's not only like I'm calling him a liar. It's as if his opinion doesn't isn't like I need somebody else to tell me that like your opinion isn't really the credible opinion. I don't know why we do that. I think it was the same with my mom. My mom is gone and one of the things I miss so much is she used to always cup my face and say TC you're so pretty and I remember always thinking the same thing like you're just saying that because you're my mom and you have to say that why do we automatically want to call the Megan (29:28) Yeah. you Teasi Cannon (29:51) you know, those people we love liars, but I love the point you drew and it is so true. Anytime we read God's word, what he says about reality, what he says about himself, what he says about us, and we say, ⁓ you know, we're actually calling him a liar. It's looking at the creator of the universe and saying you're a liar. And that's important to reflect on. That's nothing to just... whisk by. think it's prayerfully searching our own hearts for how often are we doing that. Megan (30:29) And but not to even put ourselves down about it just to be encouraged by it, right? Because that can happen too. I did it again I failed again and then we're making it all about what we did or didn't do instead. It's the Psalm 3, know, he's the lifter of my head He's the shield about me that David was talking about ⁓ So Yeah, I just it has informed the ministry that I do it is informed Teasi Cannon (30:34) Right. Yeah. Megan (30:57) not only the pro-life apologetics, like taking that down to the gut soul level, right? ⁓ If I believe that we are intrinsically valuable because we are made in God's image, then I'd better walk that out ⁓ in such a way. And so the way that we do that is we go back to the gospel time and time and time again. Wait, what does it say of us? What has Christ done? It is finished. Teasi Cannon (31:21) Mm-hmm. Megan (31:24) And then of course, all the different reasons we have with that. You the bad days are the days you go back to the resurrection and the reasons for the resurrection being the best explanation of what happened that day in history ⁓ and time and time again. And we need the community around us to remind us of those things. Like, hey, wait, I think you're forgetting the gospel. I think you're forgetting who you are. ⁓ Well, that... Teasi Cannon (31:36) Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Megan (31:52) that ties into the last thing that I'm still walking out and will probably be walking out forever. All of that chronic stress from the gymnastics and everything else, not to mention just genetics. I genetically have low thyroid. ⁓ And so about three years ago, I was diagnosed with the autoimmune disorder that's related to thyroid. So it's called Hashimoto's. I think it's the most common of the autoimmune disorders. Teasi Cannon (32:08) Mm. Megan (32:21) I've met so many people who are saying, that's, I've been diagnosed with Hashimoto's. ⁓ So now the life that I lead is one where I am managing this autoimmune disorder. So my body ⁓ is broken in that way, which is a, whoo, that's a lot to swallow when you get to that point of being someone who I've been healthy my whole life. I could do all the things I could power through. Teasi Cannon (32:26) Yeah. Yeah. Megan (32:48) I'm very good Teasi Cannon (32:48) Mm-hmm. Megan (32:49) at not listening to my body. can do whatever with gymnastics. Those were the demands. And then I think that kind of perfectionism led into everything else in life. And so it's brought me to a place of where the temptation could be, could be, and sometimes is to feel very sorry for myself. ⁓ I can't eat all the things that I want to eat. I can't do all the things that I really want to do. ⁓ I've kind of run headlong into my limitations. And I think that God has met me right there. And in the way that only he can do, TC, ⁓ it's been a season of unveiling, I think, the things that I wanna spend the rest of my time this side of heaven diving into and helping people understand. And it's all related. Like when I look back and I see the art, Teasi Cannon (33:21) Mm-hmm. Megan (33:48) the portrait drawing mainly that was I was always people. I wanted to draw those the storytelling, right? The pro-life apologetics because of human dignity, the human questions, the bioethics and even beauty. When I talk about beauty, ⁓ I want people to understand things about everyday faithfulness. Teasi Cannon (33:48) Thank Interesting. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Megan (34:09) that God has made the world so beautiful, that we are the pinnacle of his creation, and that we have, because of that imago de status he's given us, we have these capacities to contribute and cultivate beauty in the world around us. And when we do that, it's not just the making of a sandwich or just the painting of a portrait, or just, it could be something huge. Whatever it is, it is a all out declaration of war on all that is broken with the world. Teasi Cannon (34:13) Hmm. Mm. Mm. Megan (34:39) All of that though is wrapped up in understanding that as human beings, we are limited. Dr. Kelly Kapik, the wonderful theologian he teaches at Covenant College, you're probably familiar. He wrote that great book called Your Only Human. ⁓ It's a treatise. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (34:51) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. I want to read it again. read it. I think I listened to it and then I bought the hard copy because I wanted there were some points that I'm sure you're getting ready to make but something about even the beautifulness of our limitations, just the humanity and that it's beautiful because it's an honor to be a human. I know you said that and sometimes that is also what I wake up and think. Thank you God that you created me as a human. I'm not a rock. I'm not a squirrel. I get to be a human being which is your image bearer, like your reflection here on earth and that is a purpose. So many of us are waking up every day in the world wondering why am I here? That is the tonic note question. Why am I here? What is the point of my whole life? What's the point? And knowing when you really dig in to who God is. which it doesn't matter enough that we're his image bearers until we know his character. Like to really feel honored to be a human, you have to behold the beauty of our God. And when you behold the beauty of our God, it becomes an increasing honor to be his image bearer on earth. And that includes our limitations, which is so freeing. Megan (36:09) Yes. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (36:24) because I don't know why we think we need to have limitless abilities. We are not omnipotent. He is, you know, so. Megan (36:35) Right, right. that was so beautifully said. ⁓ Yes, all of that. His he's talking about his thesis is that we were limited prior to the fall and God called those limits tov. He called them good, like in the full sense of that meaning of the word good, which we kind of make shallow, right? Good is like a subjective term these days. it's good if it's good to me. It's good if it feels good. No good in the Teasi Cannon (36:47) Yes, so good. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Right. Right. Megan (37:04) not only the purpose sense, it encompasses that, but more the moral perfection completeness sense. As a human being, it is enough and we are limited beings and he made us that way on purpose for purpose. I think this has slowed me down enough ⁓ to remind me of many things. One of the things that reminds me daily is I am dependent. Teasi Cannon (37:06) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Megan (37:33) I'm a dependent being. Another of the things that reminds me daily is, and this is dealing with my work, ⁓ in a world where, as you so succinctly said a minute ago, we are rushing headlong past what it means to be human. We're trying to transgress and surpass those limits in so many ways with knowledge, is all the way back to the garden, right, friend? It is the tree, right? Teasi Cannon (37:50) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right? Megan (38:02) ⁓ Teasi Cannon (38:02) Yep. Megan (38:03) with trying to hold on to all the information, trying to be all that we think we're supposed to be for all of those people who are in our immediate circles or not. ⁓ Living up to the value pressures of the world, those functional value pressures that say you're not valuable just because you're human, you're valuable because of traits, attributes, abilities, functions that you may or may not be able to perform to certain degrees. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (38:14) Yeah. Right. Megan (38:32) We live in a digital age where we have access to more, more entertainment, more information, more awareness of what's happening on a global scale. I we could just go on. It's just that that anvil that sits on our chests when we lay down at night going, I just don't know how I'm going to manage from day to day. And one of the things that I'm learning in this as God has met me and you again, you see God, you are in control. You are sovereign. Teasi Cannon (38:44) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Megan (39:02) You will take care of my body. All of that, but also to say, it's enough. Like I'm enough because you're more than enough. And the things that we do mean something because we mean so much to him. So what we contribute on a day-to-day basis might not have to be the demands that are put on us. I think those begin to become inhuman a lot of times. Teasi Cannon (39:02) Yeah. What a relief. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm. Megan (39:31) So Dr. Kapit would talk about. So here's a takeaway from his book. So I know you've read this and maybe others would be interested in picking it up. It really blessed me as it did you. think that the biggest takeaway, one of them was the virtues that our culture holds us, its highest virtues. ⁓ He named productivity and efficiency. Those are the highest virtues of American culture. The things that people run headlong after. It's how much can you get done? Do more. Do more, do it faster, do it better, make it perfect, do more. And that's always, that's our day in and day out. And unless we stop to think about it, which I think this is part of what has happened with ⁓ this diagnosis, I was forced to stop and think about it, ⁓ we don't see that though God is certainly productive and efficient, He did speak the world into being, let's just be real. Teasi Cannon (40:10) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Megan (40:36) His highest virtue is neither of those things. His highest virtue is love and love in the true sense of the word, not love is just feelings or affection, but love in the, a lot of people will call it the verb, right? The act of the will that is directed to the true good of others. Jesus on the cross kind of love. ⁓ That's about the most inefficient thing you can do. Teasi Cannon (40:57) Right. Yeah. Megan (41:03) or the least efficient thing. The more that I study that, the more that I study beauty as something that is objective and real, something that we can cultivate and something that we can appreciate, starting with looking out your window, right? Those require inefficiency, contemplation, getting lost in it, slowing down. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (41:22) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, right. It's amazing how much harder those things are in our culture with how hard it is to just unplug and not have FOMO. and it, there's a balance, because sometimes I just wish I could unplug completely and just go off the grid. But that wouldn't be great either because then I'm not being, salt and light to hurting people. Like it would be so nice to just be on a deserted island with Jesus only. think of, yeah, no, I'm like, yeah, no, with Jesus, yes. Like I think, my, that would be my dream is if I could just be on a deserted island alone with Jesus. And that is actually sometimes how I bring my heart and soul. Megan (42:01) Would it though? No, would Jesus? Yes. Teasi Cannon (42:22) back into a place of peace when I am spinning in a place of feeling less than or comparison. I begin to care more than I need to, than I should about what others think of me or what I think of me, as I actually will just imagine. What would I be feeling right now if I was just on a deserted island with Jesus and everything falls away because I am ⁓ fully aware of how he sees me and that I am cloaked in his righteousness, that I am not having to prove anything and that I can just sit at his feet and that's the better thing. I think I'm even, you know, what you're saying now, I'm also just needing to hear this today, quite frankly. There's a lot going on around us and there's a lot of noise and there's a lot of voices and you can... worry that you're not doing the right thing or the best thing moment by moment and to just be peaceful and put yourself right there at the feet of Jesus and remember ⁓ what he thinks is what matters most like what you were saying about Keller's message. It's not what the world thinks, what others think, what I think, it's what he thinks and I'm so thankful that we have that story, that beautiful story that is real, that is true. And you've mentioned some of the things that are evidence that you lean into. You mentioned the resurrection on really tough days. I agree that's the one that is my first. Lifeline wait wait Jesus did come out of the grave so when I'm tempted to think I'm just crazy that I'm just trying to Make myself feel better with this hopeful talk about every tear being wiped away or you know sometimes I have to really walk myself back to the truth, but I'm I'm curious in your own day on those days when you're faced with your limitations What does that process look like for you just walking yourself back to that place of total dependency and trust in God's truth. Megan (44:40) Yeah, some days look better than others, if I'm honest. ⁓ I think that what it looks like on the good days is... Teasi Cannon (44:44) Yeah. Megan (44:52) We forget sometimes that the song we learned if we grew up in that Christian household, ⁓ Jesus loves be this I know, right? For the Bible tells me so. I think we forget sometimes that that is the deep end. We think we need to go deeper and broader and wider and I've got to read this tome on this thing, which you and I are the kind who like, we probably would enjoy that. But it really comes back to going, wait, what am I trying to prove here? Teasi Cannon (45:00) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Megan (45:23) He did it all. It's done. And when I can't see that, which is many days, I go to the ones around me who can. And I will often go to my husband and I'll say, Tripp, I need you to tell me true things. Because I'm spinning today. I'm spiraling into all the, I don't have this done, I'm not enough, I didn't do it, I didn't pick it all up. And we're gonna have busy days and that's okay. Teasi Cannon (45:30) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Megan (45:51) So it's not about stopping everything. It's not about, we work hard to the glory of God, but it's the working hard because of the get to, not because of the have to. Simple as that. ⁓ I do think when I read things about beauty, which is the area where I'm spending some time right now, that also is another type of argument or evidence for God's existence. Teasi Cannon (45:56) Mm-hmm. Megan (46:17) And I find great comfort in that, not only comfort, but healing. Teasi Cannon (46:22) Can you, just for listeners, can you share briefly how you, you know, the most succinct way that you would give, I don't know, a syllogism or something for, you know, using beauty, and I don't even know if that's how you would present it, but just to help listeners connect those dots. Megan (46:40) Yeah, sure. An easy place to start would be right at the beginning of C.S. Lewis's Abolition of Man, which is not really a book about beauty. It's a book about values though. And there's a story he tells that I remember reading it and being just struck with the reality that he was presenting there and going, my goodness, he's right. ⁓ He's talking about... He's recounting a story of the poet Coleridge at a waterfall with two tourists. One of the tourists called the waterfall pretty and the other one called the waterfall sublime, which in its definition is very close to that of beauty. So we can substitute the word beauty there. And Lewis is grappling with some men who took Coleridge's analysis and said, neither man was really talking about the waterfall at all. They were just talking about their feelings. Teasi Cannon (47:38) Mm. Megan (47:39) So if we stop right there, what we can see is this is where we live today. That shallow goodness we were talking about, that shallow sense it's all subjective. ⁓ Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When you find something beautiful that just has to do with your feelings of what you think is beautiful and that's it. So subjective, beauty is subjective. But if something is purely subjective, meaning it finds its origins in your preferences or my preferences, well, Teasi Cannon (47:46) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Megan (48:08) My preferences have no more authority than yours. So if something is truly subjective, it's not really real. Lewis said, they couldn't have been talking about their own feelings. The only thing that would make a man call a waterfall beautiful is if his feelings were in direct opposition to the description. In other words, when he looked at the waterfall, he felt tiny, small, insignificant. Teasi Cannon (48:11) Mm-hmm. Wow. Mmm, wow. Megan (48:38) humbled. The beauty was a real attribute of the waterfall. Beauty is an objective part of the world we live in, just like morality is an objective thing. It's woven into the fabric of reality around us. ⁓ The fact that we don't see it that way is more the result of bad ideas from the last few hundred years than anything else. Once we understand that beauty is real, it informs so many things. talks about training our loves. Teasi Cannon (48:52) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Megan (49:08) You know, we can have our tastes and preferences. That's fine. There's plenty of room for preference in these conversations. I would much prefer most days to listen to Tom Petty than Johann Sebastian Bach. Let's just be honest about that. So there's beauty to be found in both, but Bach's beauty is one that it demands things of you. ⁓ So all that to say to sit in the presence of beauty ⁓ does something to you. You begin to recognize it when you take the time to be still enough. Teasi Cannon (49:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Megan (49:36) And if you pay close enough attention, you'll find that beauty doesn't just awaken pleasure within you, though it does that. It typically also awakens a kind of pain or longing. Lewis would call that homesickness. So that reality of beauty in the world reminds us that we were made for something more than the world. It's closely related to his argument from desire, ⁓ but just absolutely wonderful. And when I sit and look out, Teasi Cannon (49:48) Mm. Yeah, well. Yeah. Megan (50:05) at the place, even my backyard, we're looking at a lake and some mountains in the distance and right around sunset those mountains turn a shade of pink I didn't know could exist in nature. I sit there and I'm grateful that I've been given the capacity to be human, to bear his image so that I have the ability to appreciate beauty. The mountains aren't appreciating themselves, right? But we can. Teasi Cannon (50:23) Yes. Right. ⁓ Megan (50:34) and that I have within me the wherewithal not to stop at the mountains but to look along them and see the giver of the beauty. Teasi Cannon (50:42) Wow, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah, what a profound concept. And I definitely want to read more on that. I have not read a lot about just finding God, the argument of beauty. But when you're saying it, my heart is just literally longing. I actually could feel longing thinking about something beautiful. it is... Megan (50:45) It is. It's just cool. Teasi Cannon (51:14) something I really... Appreciate you bringing up and plan to read more about I feel so encouraged by you Megan I think you opening your heart is just such a gift and I feel personally encouraged I also know our listeners well Is there anything else on your heart that you would want to say to people? who are wondering if God's promises can be trusted in their pain. Megan (51:45) Well, if it's enough for me to say it, they can. ⁓ And the wondering is good. I think lean into the wondering, lean into the questions. A great teacher once said to me, we don't typically long for someone we've never met. And so sometimes when we're sitting in those moments of doubt, I think we can... Teasi Cannon (51:48) Yeah. Megan (52:10) If we just are willing to sit down in the question and bring others into it who know and love us well, and maybe hear them tell the truth that we are having a hard time seeing for ourselves, ⁓ being limited is a beautiful thing and a good thing according to God. Being human is an incredible thing. And I think that we don't have to worry about being enough because He certainly is. Teasi Cannon (52:15) Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for, again, for your time. Thank you everyone who's listening. I would like to ask you to consider sharing this conversation with somebody in your life that would be encouraged. And if you are encouraged, I would love to ask you to subscribe if you'd like to, just so you don't miss a single moment of true comfort. And Megan, thank you again for being here. Thank you everyone for listening.