Latest / Promoter101 / Promoter 101 # 249 - City Winery founder Michael Dorf

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Promoter 101 # 249 - City Winery founder Michael Dorf · Promoter101

0:10
Speaker 1: All right.
0:21
Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
0:25
Speaker 1: Promoter 101. Discussion.
0:28
Speaker 2: It's the heart of the matter. Serving up opinions on
0:30
Speaker 2: a silver platter as you grind. The information getting, bringing
0:34
Speaker 2: you got so hot you'll be sweating.
0:36
Speaker 1: These two dudes with attitudes will put you in the
0:39
Speaker 1: mood for a plate full of brain food.
0:40
Speaker 2: So don't delay, my daughter, my son. Visit the buffet
0:44
Speaker 2: called Promoter 101.
0:45
Speaker 1: Promoter. 1-0-1 1-0-1.
1:25
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Promoter 101 podcast. This is episode 249.
1:29
Speaker 3: In this episode, we're going to sit down with City
1:32
Speaker 3: Winery founder Michael Dorff, who's going to explain the business
1:35
Speaker 3: model behind the listing room venue chain from its high-end
1:38
Speaker 3: kitchens to rapid expansion into markets across the country. Dorff
1:42
Speaker 3: also discusses how City Winery books its calendars and the
1:45
Speaker 3: keys to its brand success.
1:47
Speaker 1: Plus stories from the road. Nick Light will join us
1:50
Speaker 1: as he reflects back at the end of an era
1:52
Speaker 1: as he wrapped up his life on the road with
1:55
Speaker 1: Bon Jovi's, I guess you'd call it a reunion residency
1:59
Speaker 1: kind of tour, Luke?
2:00
Speaker 4: I'm excited to hear Nick talk about everything Bon Jovi, man.
2:04
Speaker 1: What an incredible run that guy's had. Both Bon Jovi
2:07
Speaker 1: and Nick. Both of them, sure.
2:09
Speaker 4: You're listening to Promoter 101 Podcast starting right now.
2:14
Speaker 2: Hi, this is Jack Ross from UTA with Stiney for
2:17
Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
2:17
Speaker 1: Want more Promoter 101? Check out all our past episodes
2:21
Speaker 1: anytime you want at promoter101. com.
2:23
Speaker 4: A ton of past guests, a ton of great things
2:25
Speaker 4: in our old podcasts.
2:26
Speaker 2: Got something on your mind?
2:27
Speaker 1: Maybe some questions, ideas, feedback? Drop us a line at stineypromoter101. net.
2:33
Speaker 1: And of course, we're on X. Follow us at Promoter101.
2:36
Speaker 1: I am at TheJew. And Luke is WLukePierce. On Instagram,
2:42
Speaker 1: the show is StineyPromoter101. I'm Dan Presents. And Luke is
2:47
Speaker 1: at WLukePierce. Fergie Tour Design.
2:52
Speaker 2: I'm on Promoter101.
2:53
Speaker 3: Kicking us off on Promoter101 episode 249. We've got a
2:57
Speaker 3: special segment with stories on the road. Bon Jovi has
3:00
Speaker 3: just wrapped a massive project. world run and joining us
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Speaker 3: here to talk about his experience with John, as well
3:07
Speaker 3: as his amazing career as SVP of artist development at
3:11
Speaker 3: Selling Music, Nick Light.
3:12
Speaker 1: Nick Light is joining us after a triumphant farewell to
3:17
Speaker 1: the road. You just did your final shows as a TM.
3:20
Speaker 4: No, no, no.
3:21
Speaker 2: I wasn't tour manager on this tour. So let's get
3:23
Speaker 2: that squared away first. This is the first time I've
3:25
Speaker 2: gone out without being a tour manager. I was the
3:27
Speaker 2: overseer of the management office. So it was a lot
3:30
Speaker 2: less stress this tour than any other.
3:32
Speaker 1: Your final road tour and your return to the road.
3:35
Speaker 1: And in this particular case, you were the artist liaison
3:38
Speaker 1: to management.
3:38
Speaker 2: Correct. It was special to me. I turned 60. I
3:41
Speaker 2: think everybody knows I had a kidney transplant. I've had
3:44
Speaker 2: multiple spinal operations. So moving and logistically being out on
3:48
Speaker 2: the road is just hard. And I knew it's coming
3:51
Speaker 2: to an end and I had the opportunity to go.
3:53
Speaker 2: I was invited by Matt Bon Jovi and I couldn't
3:56
Speaker 2: pass it up.
3:57
Speaker 1: So the scale of the Bon Jovi, I don't know
3:59
Speaker 1: if he called a reunion tour, but he'd been off
4:01
Speaker 1: the road for a very long time. The scale of this,
4:04
Speaker 1: the residency at MSG, the handful of particularly big A
4:08
Speaker 1: markets that he took on for multiple nights, handful of Wembleys,
4:12
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Very cool all the
4:14
Speaker 1: way around the world. The scale is just massive and
4:17
Speaker 1: an artist that you've had a long relationship with to
4:19
Speaker 1: begin with.
4:20
Speaker 2: I first started with them in 94 when I was
4:23
Speaker 2: at Mercury Records. I'm grateful for everything they taught me.
4:26
Speaker 2: You know, I got to do some pretty magical things
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Speaker 2: with Bon Jovi early, early in my career. Closing down
4:31
Speaker 2: Times Square for MTV, closing down 51st Street and Broadway
4:35
Speaker 2: for David Letterman. So it's been a long education with them.
4:39
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful that I had
4:42
Speaker 2: the chance to go out and do this last tour.
4:44
Speaker 2: It was as huge as you could get. After you
4:46
Speaker 2: left the garden, it was all stadiums.
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Speaker 1: How long has it been since you've been out there
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Speaker 1: with an artist on the road touring?
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Speaker 2: Oh God. Uh, 17 years. Okay.
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Speaker 1: So video wasn't really even a thing last time you
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Speaker 1: were on the road.
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Speaker 2: Not really. Not really. I mean, this was a real
5:01
Speaker 2: me going on the road. I've done weekend runs, uh,
5:03
Speaker 2: as a stand in for garbage for a weekend, but
5:06
Speaker 2: you know, that's one or two days, but this, this
5:08
Speaker 2: was my last tour. You know, I was gone for
5:10
Speaker 2: a while, a couple of months anyway.
5:12
Speaker 1: Every show sold out, massive scale, all hits, obviously some concern.
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Speaker 1: John hadn't been on the road because he was worried
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Speaker 1: about his voice, probably his own biggest critic. New York,
5:25
Speaker 1: there was one night they cut a little short. So
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Speaker 1: I think everybody was worried about the rest of the
5:29
Speaker 1: run there, but he finished the run and he did
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Speaker 1: the rest of the tour. So he is.
5:33
Speaker 2: The hardest working man in show business. He really is.
5:36
Speaker 2: He gave 120% every night. It was really spectacular to watch.
5:41
Speaker 2: He does not quit.
5:42
Speaker 1: People know you as a record guy and I've known
5:45
Speaker 1: you for years. So my favorite stuff is always the
5:47
Speaker 1: stories from your road days, particularly your days on the
5:50
Speaker 1: road with Pauly Shore when he was at his peak.
5:53
Speaker 1: And for a lot of people probably don't know, there
5:57
Speaker 1: was a moment where Pauly Shore was one of the
5:58
Speaker 1: biggest comics on the planet when he was an MTV
6:00
Speaker 1: VJ and he was selling out rock clubs all over
6:03
Speaker 1: the country.
6:03
Speaker 2: We were selling about seven, $ 8, 000. back during the totally
6:07
Speaker 2: poly days, it was large. I mean, that was the
6:10
Speaker 2: most out of control nonsense that had been a part of,
6:13
Speaker 2: because there were no cameras. There were no, there was
6:16
Speaker 2: nothing back then. Just a very, very different time in music.
6:19
Speaker 2: A different day for sure.
6:21
Speaker 1: Certainly got your feet wet in the industry on the road.
6:24
Speaker 1: I mean, your hardest know how to liaison between the
6:27
Speaker 1: venues and the promoters and the acts and how to
6:30
Speaker 1: get an act around the country and deal with fans
6:33
Speaker 1: trying to evade the bus.
6:35
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it all depends on who's leading that.
6:39
Speaker 2: You know, if your artist is an A-level artist or
6:42
Speaker 2: sets the tone of a team feel, everybody's on board.
6:45
Speaker 2: Everybody goes along. Everybody makes it easy. You know, you
6:48
Speaker 2: have some artists that are just difficult and the whole
6:50
Speaker 2: process is difficult. I mean, a difficult one, I was
6:52
Speaker 2: the tour manager for Spinal Tap. And that was just hard.
6:55
Speaker 1: Not the movie, the actual band.
6:57
Speaker 2: Actual band. I'm Ian Fate. It's one of the tours
7:00
Speaker 2: I was proud to take just because I can say
7:02
Speaker 2: I was the tour manager of Spinal Tap. It was
7:04
Speaker 2: very difficult. I mean, I was a kid. I was 26.
7:07
Speaker 2: They were 45 and they weren't a band, you know?
7:10
Speaker 2: So trying to get them to do normal things or
7:12
Speaker 2: just move logistically was just a nightmare.
7:16
Speaker 1: Guys used to being in trailers a lot, being ready
7:19
Speaker 1: to shoot their scene, opposed to moving around the country
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Speaker 1: like a rock band.
7:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they were, they found themselves to be gourmet eaters.
7:27
Speaker 2: And when you're playing in a shed out of an
7:30
Speaker 2: hour outside of Dallas, you've got sound check at 430.
7:34
Speaker 2: You can't take the bus back into Dallas to go
7:36
Speaker 2: to dinner and then make it back for an eight
7:38
Speaker 2: o'clock showtime. And that would piss them off every night.
7:41
Speaker 2: And I'd just be dealing with a grumpy, grumpy band.
7:44
Speaker 2: The worst I had, it was with Harry Shearer, uh,
7:47
Speaker 2: Derek Smalls. We were playing St. Louis and they do
7:51
Speaker 2: the song, Give Me Some Money. And everybody throws change
7:54
Speaker 2: at them on the stage. And he comes off pissed off. Nick,
7:57
Speaker 2: you got to make this stop. Don't do this song.
8:00
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. I can't make
8:02
Speaker 2: him stop throwing money. So I sent the runner out
8:04
Speaker 2: and I bought him all racquetball goggle, you know, and
8:07
Speaker 2: he was beyond livid at that. And just, they were
8:10
Speaker 2: not a real band. So it made it exceptionally difficult
8:12
Speaker 2: to move.
8:13
Speaker 1: Victim of his own success.
8:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. If you can call it that, yeah.
8:17
Speaker 1: So how did that convince you to go back on
8:19
Speaker 1: the road and what is the new role as you're
8:22
Speaker 1: worth the tour manager? So in that new role as
8:25
Speaker 1: the liaison, what were you responsible for?
8:27
Speaker 2: I was low man on this tour. I was a grunt.
8:29
Speaker 2: I had to set up the management office. I get
8:31
Speaker 2: everything ready for the day. I deal with tickets. I
8:34
Speaker 2: deal with problems or anything that tour manager needed. You know,
8:38
Speaker 2: my first time going out as low man and it
8:41
Speaker 2: was great. I didn't have the stress that the tour
8:44
Speaker 2: manager would have. I had. I had a lot more
8:47
Speaker 2: fun than most would have.
8:48
Speaker 1: We're American Beauty. I'm looking for the least amount of
8:51
Speaker 1: responsibility as possible.
8:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I had. I was invited to go.
8:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I left Sony in 24. Haven't really been
9:00
Speaker 2: doing anything. Just kind of enjoying my life. And I
9:03
Speaker 2: get a call from Matt. What are you doing in July?
9:05
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not doing anything in July. So we
9:08
Speaker 2: start rehearsals and we're ready to go. It was that simple.
9:11
Speaker 2: Out I went.
9:12
Speaker 1: So this is it. If they decide to do more dates,
9:15
Speaker 1: you won't go back on if they call again?
9:18
Speaker 2: No, my brother asked that.
9:19
Speaker 4: You know what?
9:20
Speaker 2: As I said, I'm not physically capable as I used
9:24
Speaker 2: to be. Traveling with the amount of meds I have
9:27
Speaker 2: to take for the kidney was enough trouble as it is.
9:30
Speaker 2: I take 35 pills a day for this kidney. So
9:33
Speaker 2: to be out on the road for two months, I'm
9:36
Speaker 2: hauling all of it.
9:37
Speaker 1: Wow.
9:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, but I'm alive, so it's all good. You know,
9:40
Speaker 2: but when you cross a border... I have a letter
9:42
Speaker 2: from UCLA explaining what all that's for though.
9:46
Speaker 1: Right. Cause probably looks a little different.
9:49
Speaker 2: You know, but even, even being asked to go, it
9:51
Speaker 2: was just, it's so huge. I mean, I've seen a
9:53
Speaker 2: hundred Bon Jovi shows. I've seen them everywhere, but this was,
9:57
Speaker 2: this was special to me in a way, you know, I'm,
9:59
Speaker 2: I'm grateful i got to be there i'm grateful i
10:02
Speaker 2: got to see him sing at the level he can
10:04
Speaker 2: sing now just being out in these stadiums it was
10:08
Speaker 2: magic it was really something special.
10:10
Speaker 1: You basically msg for like two weeks three and a
10:13
Speaker 1: half nine shows spread out yeah so it's like that's
10:16
Speaker 1: insane because he's not singing every night like they're They
10:19
Speaker 1: take days off to perfect his voice. Yeah. Month vacation
10:23
Speaker 1: in New York. Well, I'm just working, but you guys
10:25
Speaker 1: aren't loading in, loading out every night.
10:26
Speaker 2: So no, that's not true. We had to load in
10:29
Speaker 2: and load out every night. Fish was following us on
10:32
Speaker 2: all these dates. So we'd, we'd altered every other day.
10:36
Speaker 1: Wow.
10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know what, when you're there for three
10:39
Speaker 2: weeks or a band of Bon Jovi's magnitude, You see
10:43
Speaker 2: fans that you've seen for years, over and over and
10:47
Speaker 2: over again. There are couples in the front row I've
10:50
Speaker 2: seen since the 90s, and they're just diehards. And that's
10:54
Speaker 2: kind of special to see them still here, still going on,
10:57
Speaker 2: still enjoying the show, still lost in the music. It's
11:00
Speaker 2: great to see.
11:01
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like you had a whole lot of fun.
11:04
Speaker 1: What's your takeaway?
11:05
Speaker 2: To me, it was a gift, man. I couldn't ask
11:09
Speaker 2: for a better scenario. You know, I've had a very
11:11
Speaker 2: lucky career. I've done everything I've wanted to do. I mean,
11:15
Speaker 2: I've got to do work with some amazing artists. I
11:19
Speaker 2: got to do some very special things. But to end
11:21
Speaker 2: this portion of my career with Bon Jovi was the
11:24
Speaker 2: greatest gift I ever could have asked for.
11:26
Speaker 1: Of all of the markets he played, which one was
11:29
Speaker 1: the coolest?
11:30
Speaker 2: I'm going to say Dublin was the coolest. And I'll
11:33
Speaker 2: tell you why. The Dublin Stadium is built in like
11:38
Speaker 2: a suburb. So literally you walk out the door and
11:42
Speaker 2: you know, everybody's home is there. Like it's just kind
11:45
Speaker 2: of like the Greek. Yeah, exactly. Like the Greek. So
11:48
Speaker 2: the show ends and 86,000 people calmly walk out and
11:52
Speaker 2: walk through the streets home. Nobody's yelling and screaming. Nobody's
11:55
Speaker 2: causing trouble. It was mind blowing to me, but they
11:58
Speaker 2: were all great. I mean, you know, John's got some
12:01
Speaker 2: big anthems and living on a prayer would always fall
12:04
Speaker 2: in the middle of the set. And when you're standing
12:07
Speaker 2: in a stadium. of 86,000 people and they get to
12:10
Speaker 2: that first chorus, it's, it'll just give you goosebumps. You know,
12:14
Speaker 2: Madison square garden, I had a decibel meter and each
12:17
Speaker 2: night it would just get a little louder, a little louder,
12:20
Speaker 2: a little louder, you know, it's getting to about 120 decibels.
12:24
Speaker 2: It was, it's an experience.
12:26
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
12:27
Speaker 2: You're lucky to be there amongst a crew like that
12:29
Speaker 2: and have that experience. That, that was the saddest part.
12:33
Speaker 2: When I got home, I got home September 10. And
12:36
Speaker 2: I'm just standing in my house. What do I do?
12:38
Speaker 2: I got no schedule. I got no catering. I have
12:41
Speaker 2: to feed myself.
12:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:42
Speaker 2: It's definitely a letdown coming off something that big.
12:45
Speaker 1: And that would be a great video. I don't know
12:48
Speaker 1: if you remember, uh, at the awards, they used to
12:50
Speaker 1: be the Gary's used to do a cool opener. Like,
12:53
Speaker 1: like it was Saturday night live. They do like a
12:54
Speaker 1: cold open and there'd be some video. And that would
12:57
Speaker 1: be a fun video. It was like tour manager gets
12:59
Speaker 1: off the road. He's like wandering around the house, looking
13:01
Speaker 1: for catering. They're in his no signs person.
13:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no tape on the floor. There's no wall,
13:09
Speaker 2: no catering. I got spoiled. I mean, you know, going
13:12
Speaker 2: out with a band like that, you are definitely spoiled.
13:14
Speaker 2: I'm glad I did it.
13:16
Speaker 1: I'm lucky.
13:16
Speaker 2: My wife supported me going. If you've ever been on
13:19
Speaker 2: a tour or you've ever been part of something like that,
13:22
Speaker 2: to be able to go and be there again and
13:24
Speaker 2: close out like that, it's just, it's just special.
13:27
Speaker 1: Normally when you're on tour, you're in a bus, you're
13:29
Speaker 1: in a bunk. I have to imagine that this is
13:31
Speaker 1: a tour that you didn't see the inside of a bus.
13:33
Speaker 2: No, no. I mean, New York, we flew, everybody flew
13:36
Speaker 2: into New York. Uh, I took an Uber. We flew
13:39
Speaker 2: on a charter jet once and then the rest was
13:42
Speaker 2: just all local. It was easy to get around. We
13:45
Speaker 2: do it in like a big, like touring bus, not
13:47
Speaker 2: a tour bus, like a 55 passenger. Very, very simple
13:51
Speaker 2: and easy.
13:52
Speaker 1: Different kind of tour, different scale.
13:54
Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:55
Speaker 2: Well, the scale was huge. It's just, it was a
13:57
Speaker 2: lot easier than trucking across the United States, going from
14:00
Speaker 2: Seattle to Phoenix, you know, you're not pulling overnights and
14:05
Speaker 2: anything like that.
14:06
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a new part of the new
14:09
Speaker 1: experience with these resonances around the world where you've got
14:13
Speaker 1: these massive acts, whether it's Celine or Adele or you
14:19
Speaker 1: two setting up camp in one place and letting the
14:22
Speaker 1: fans travel to them.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's also great for crew morale. You know,
14:28
Speaker 2: I mean, I was lucky I was in New York
14:30
Speaker 2: for three and a half weeks and my family came
14:32
Speaker 2: to stay. You know, you're not missing home life. You're
14:36
Speaker 2: able to bring your family out and see this stuff.
14:39
Speaker 2: If that's the new way it's going, I'm all for it.
14:41
Speaker 1: Well, it definitely seems to be a handful of artists
14:44
Speaker 1: choosing that. Miley Cyrus only putting up two nights at
14:47
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Bowl last week and making it clear that
14:50
Speaker 1: this was not the tour.
14:51
Speaker 2: This was it for the moment.
14:53
Speaker 1: Right. seeing the world emerge in the queue for the
14:57
Speaker 1: one place that they're going to play. I think we're
15:00
Speaker 1: going to see more of this. And I like the
15:02
Speaker 1: scale or the concept that Bon Jovi did was, I'm
15:06
Speaker 1: not saying you have to come to America to see me.
15:08
Speaker 1: I'm going to play these handful of markets around the world,
15:11
Speaker 1: but where I'm playing, if I'll get us there, you're
15:15
Speaker 1: going to have to make the jump to the satellite
15:17
Speaker 1: of where we're playing in your part of the world.
15:20
Speaker 2: They all came, that's for sure. They all came.
15:23
Speaker 1: How many sugars in total?
15:25
Speaker 2: Gee, 9, 10, 11, 12, probably 13, 14.
15:28
Speaker 1: 14 over what, four markets?
15:30
Speaker 2: Five, because we had two family and friend shows in Baltimore.
15:34
Speaker 1: There were two of those?
15:36
Speaker 2: Two.
15:36
Speaker 1: I guess if you hadn't been on stage in a minute,
15:38
Speaker 1: you might want to warm up.
15:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:40
Speaker 1: Test it out a little bit. Make sure it's there.
15:42
Speaker 2: It was there. I mean, it was there all through rehearsal.
15:44
Speaker 2: It was there and tastes great at what he does.
15:49
Speaker 1: What an amazing thing. Friend of the podcast, a buddy forever.
15:53
Speaker 1: Nick Light, no longer on the road, but wrapping it
15:56
Speaker 1: up here on Promoter.
15:57
Speaker 2: Oh, now I got to get a job.
15:59
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure there's a record label somewhere.
16:03
Speaker 2: I don't think so. But I'm glad I was able
16:06
Speaker 2: to go out this way and happy to be home.
16:09
Speaker 2: And it's a great way to wrap up a very
16:11
Speaker 2: long touring career.
16:13
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
16:14
Speaker 2: It was my pleasure. Hey, this is Bobby Reynolds with
16:17
Speaker 2: AEG Presents in Las Vegas. I'm here with Dan on
16:20
Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
16:21
Speaker 4: You know it wouldn't be Promoter 101 without seeing Dan's
16:25
Speaker 4: mind this week. Let's see what Dan said over on X.
16:29
Speaker 1: Start here. Dan, you said, people that start new business
16:32
Speaker 1: projects on a Friday afternoon. Yeah, can we put a
16:34
Speaker 1: pin on this until Monday? We're all trying to clear
16:36
Speaker 1: our desks and get the fuck.
16:37
Speaker 2: Out of here. Feels a little pointed, Dan.
16:40
Speaker 1: It might have been, but Particularly in the summer when
16:42
Speaker 1: we're all trying to catch a flight to cover a
16:45
Speaker 1: show and we're all just trying to get out the door.
16:47
Speaker 1: Someone calling to talk new tour at 415 on a Friday.
16:51
Speaker 1: You're thankful for the business, but you kind of think
16:53
Speaker 1: maybe Monday morning might be a better time to get
16:55
Speaker 1: into that. Well, you'd be skipping two days of work there, Dan.
16:59
Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday. I am never skipping two.
17:01
Speaker 2: Days of work.
17:02
Speaker 1: I am always somewhere working, but nobody's getting any avails
17:05
Speaker 1: back over the weekend. Very true.
17:08
Speaker 2: Let's keep it going.
17:09
Speaker 4: Thank you notes lost all meaning when people send you
17:12
Speaker 4: an email to thank you for simply replying to them.
17:15
Speaker 1: We can all agree that thank you notes aren't needed
17:17
Speaker 1: for a reply to a simple email. I think all
17:20
Speaker 1: of our inboxes would thank you. You don't like a, hey,
17:23
Speaker 1: received sort of email? Not only do I not like it.
17:27
Speaker 1: It annoys the shit out of me because we all
17:29
Speaker 1: get the bounce back emails, so we know when it
17:31
Speaker 1: didn't go. And electronic emails, we know they got there.
17:35
Speaker 1: As many people that say they didn't get the email,
17:37
Speaker 1: you know it just either went to spam or they're
17:39
Speaker 1: just not paying attention to their email box. It has
17:42
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the fact that it didn't get there.
17:43
Speaker 1: If it didn't bounce, it got there.
17:46
Speaker 4: Fair enough.
17:47
Speaker 2: How about this one?
17:48
Speaker 4: Just how many nights can one act do in a
17:51
Speaker 4: single market now?
17:52
Speaker 1: Sky seems to be the limits, right? If the demand
17:55
Speaker 1: warrants it, you can just keep going, going, and going.
17:58
Speaker 1: These residencies are amazing now. The artists will set up camp,
18:03
Speaker 1: and we apparently will go to them. Fair enough. That's
18:06
Speaker 1: a wrap on Tweets of the Month. Make sure you
18:09
Speaker 1: follow Dan on X.
18:11
Speaker 4: He is at The Jew.
18:13
Speaker 1: This is Bobby Clay from C3 Presents, and you're listening
18:16
Speaker 1: to Promoter 101.
18:18
Speaker 3: As we mentioned in the top of the podcast in
18:20
Speaker 3: this special episode, we're going to take a moment to
18:22
Speaker 3: spotlight City Winery founder, Michael Dorff. Michael sat down with
18:27
Speaker 3: Dan for a wide ranging interview, talking about everything from
18:30
Speaker 3: his business model to his kitchens, to the wines that
18:33
Speaker 3: he's making and how he keeps so many places and
18:37
Speaker 3: so many venues all spinning in the air, running effectively
18:40
Speaker 3: and keeping a calendar full.
18:42
Speaker 1: City Winery has become one of those staples in the
18:45
Speaker 1: industry where acts constantly talk about doing the run through
18:50
Speaker 1: the city winery type places. It's now a verb. They
18:54
Speaker 1: want to play the city winery type venues, whether that
18:57
Speaker 1: means the triple door in Seattle or the Alberta Rose
19:01
Speaker 1: in Portland or any number of listening rooms, jazz clubs,
19:07
Speaker 1: seated small theaters across the country. It's set a tone,
19:11
Speaker 1: whether you're at the city winery in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, DC, Nashville, Philly,
19:18
Speaker 1: or the original club in New York City, which is
19:20
Speaker 1: not the original space in New York City, but the
19:22
Speaker 1: original club. It all starts with Michael Dorff and his
19:26
Speaker 1: vision for what the industry was missing. A good listening
19:30
Speaker 1: room to sit down and actually enjoy a show in
19:34
Speaker 1: a beautiful setting. Or you can actually appreciate it as
19:37
Speaker 1: you would in the old days of the jazz club
19:39
Speaker 1: and the supper clubs. And Michael's brought back a throwback
19:43
Speaker 1: to the 70s, early 70s, late 60s showroom style Vegas
19:49
Speaker 1: style shows. showrooms of enjoying the show making the show
19:53
Speaker 1: center again Michael Dorff, welcome to Promoter 101, our second
19:57
Speaker 1: attempt to have you on, and my apologies for fucking
20:00
Speaker 1: up the first time.
20:01
Speaker 2: No problem.
20:02
Speaker 5: I'm glad to finally be on, and actually now really
20:05
Speaker 5: excited that I get to follow Pete Shapiro.
20:09
Speaker 2: Number 245, I noticed.
20:11
Speaker 1: Shabby is a tornado of his own in the industry.
20:14
Speaker 1: Today is not about the bowl. Today is about the winery,
20:17
Speaker 1: and we are thrilled to have you here. When you
20:20
Speaker 1: originally opened up the first winery, and I know that
20:22
Speaker 1: you opened these before, and we'll get to the Knitting
20:24
Speaker 1: Factory in a minute, but when you opened the first
20:27
Speaker 1: City Winery in New York, was it a vision to
20:30
Speaker 1: become a chain nationally? Because you've basically done what the
20:34
Speaker 1: improv did with comedy, where you've opened these rooms across
20:37
Speaker 1: the country, and similarly to how the Blue Note used
20:40
Speaker 1: to do it back in the day, but was it
20:43
Speaker 1: one room originally, or did you have a grander vision?
20:46
Speaker 4: It was a much bigger vision. The name City Winery was.
20:49
Speaker 5: made to be very generic in the sense that I
20:52
Speaker 5: wanted to scale this concept out. One of the advantages
20:56
Speaker 5: I think of this being my second act and the
20:59
Speaker 5: chance to do it again was I didn't get a
21:02
Speaker 5: chance to build out a national network with the knitting factory.
21:06
Speaker 5: And I really had that inside me. Like I wanted
21:09
Speaker 5: to do something that was at scale. And so I
21:12
Speaker 5: picked a very generic name, City Winery. Took a while
21:15
Speaker 5: to get the IP on it because it is actually
21:18
Speaker 5: so open to.
21:19
Speaker 2: Being a, what is it?
21:22
Speaker 5: And, and, uh, I, I liked that, that kind of
21:25
Speaker 5: oxymoron in a name, it could be in Barcelona and
21:29
Speaker 5: it could be in LA or New York.
21:30
Speaker 2: So, um, that, that it was intentional.
21:33
Speaker 1: It seems like a little bit of a tip of
21:34
Speaker 1: a hat. Is there an international thought process that's in
21:37
Speaker 1: play or just a hope for the future?
21:40
Speaker 5: Well, everything is a hope for the future and nothing
21:42
Speaker 5: is ever certain, but yeah, I'm, I like wine from
21:46
Speaker 5: all over the world. I, I, Love to travel. And
21:49
Speaker 5: there's some, you know, the beauty of wine, music, and
21:52
Speaker 5: food is it is a very international common ground. So
21:56
Speaker 5: why not have it in multiple cities around the globe?
21:59
Speaker 5: First driver saw was at the century ballroom in Denver.
22:04
Speaker 5: And this is very, and these rooms used to open, um,
22:07
Speaker 5: turn of the century. They used to be opened up
22:09
Speaker 5: all over the country, these Vegas style showrooms. And somewhere
22:12
Speaker 5: in the eighties, we really lost them. where you'd have
22:15
Speaker 5: these dinner show theaters where you have an early and
22:18
Speaker 5: late and whether it was a Donnie Marie or a
22:21
Speaker 5: Shauna or a Tony Orlando come in and do two
22:26
Speaker 5: shows a night and maybe they do three or four
22:29
Speaker 5: nights comedy club style.
22:30
Speaker 4: Right.
22:30
Speaker 1: But yeah, we seem to have lost that, but you've
22:33
Speaker 1: definitely gone back to that where it's not uncommon for
22:35
Speaker 1: you guys to do an early and late, not uncommon
22:37
Speaker 1: for you guys to do multiple nights and host acts
22:40
Speaker 1: and see, and go from one show to rolling shows.
22:43
Speaker 1: Sometimes four, five, six. Yeah.
22:46
Speaker 5: I mean, I just last night watched Lyle Lovett in our,
22:50
Speaker 5: our place. He's doing 35 nights in all of our locations.
22:54
Speaker 5: You know, it's a seven figure fee and, uh, you know,
22:58
Speaker 5: he's thrilled and he was very, very complimentary because he
23:01
Speaker 5: knows what he's going to get knows.
23:03
Speaker 2: We have a great.
23:04
Speaker 4: Stage sound lights and.
23:06
Speaker 5: It becomes not that it's predictable, but life on the road.
23:11
Speaker 5: makes it very difficult for touring acts. And so when
23:13
Speaker 5: they know that they're going to come into a place
23:15
Speaker 5: and they can feel comfortable and know that the food's
23:20
Speaker 5: going to be great, the sound system is going to
23:22
Speaker 5: be good, the respect that we're going to show for
23:25
Speaker 5: the art is going to be top notch, then it
23:28
Speaker 5: just makes everything work out better. You know, when I
23:31
Speaker 5: opened in 08 in New York, I got very lucky
23:35
Speaker 5: in the sense that the bottom line had just closed.
23:38
Speaker 5: And so there was a room clearly for a 300,
23:42
Speaker 5: 350 capacity space. And also, again, from the many, many
23:48
Speaker 5: years of struggling with the knit and observing the live
23:52
Speaker 5: side of the business, it became clear that food and
23:55
Speaker 5: beverage and the focus on, if you will, the profits
23:59
Speaker 5: being in the popcorn, I wanted to do something that
24:02
Speaker 5: was really focused on the F & B. And so
24:04
Speaker 5: a supper club environment seeded Tables and chairs, that was
24:09
Speaker 5: an environment that was much more.
24:11
Speaker 2: Conducive to food and beverage.
24:12
Speaker 5: And so I really put a spotlight on that side
24:16
Speaker 5: of the business and wanted to make sure that the
24:18
Speaker 5: hospitality that we were going to offer was as high
24:22
Speaker 5: end as it could. I never thought of it as
24:25
Speaker 5: Vegas-y or anything like that. I was being very practical
24:29
Speaker 5: with this model going, I want a place I can sit,
24:32
Speaker 5: enjoy a show, be very close to the performer, be
24:36
Speaker 5: able to put my wine in a glass, not a
24:40
Speaker 5: plastic cup. And I would like really high quality food
24:43
Speaker 5: to accompany that.
24:45
Speaker 2: And I would like it all in a two hour.
24:47
Speaker 5: Window because time is the most precious commodity we all have.
24:51
Speaker 5: And it had been a far cry from the time
24:54
Speaker 5: I was going out on a date with my wife
24:56
Speaker 5: to go have dinner and go to a show.
24:59
Speaker 2: It was really hard.
25:00
Speaker 5: It was hard to combine it all. So I'm really
25:03
Speaker 5: built it as a hedonistic personal desire.
25:07
Speaker 2: And, and I'm glad it worked out.
25:09
Speaker 1: How much is the experience about the meal and how
25:12
Speaker 1: much is it about the show or does it change
25:14
Speaker 1: based on who the artist is? It's playing the room
25:16
Speaker 1: that thing.
25:17
Speaker 5: It's a good question. I would say there's no question.
25:19
Speaker 5: The music is first. So we are listening room. I
25:23
Speaker 5: took a real line out of a John Zorn playbook
25:27
Speaker 5: when he told, uh, Madeleine Albright and Vaclav Havel in
25:31
Speaker 5: the balcony at, at the NIT one night, shut the
25:33
Speaker 5: fuck up. So we, we, we, we do nicely try
25:38
Speaker 5: and tell people that we are a listening room and
25:41
Speaker 5: respect the artists and your neighbor, but no talking during
25:43
Speaker 5: the show. And so our whole service of serving food
25:47
Speaker 5: and drink has to be secondary to the music. So
25:51
Speaker 5: we are, we learned some nice sign language with our
25:54
Speaker 5: Wade staff and we do everything we can to encourage
25:57
Speaker 5: coming before the show actually starts. We love a good intermission.
26:01
Speaker 5: We love an opening act so that we can have
26:04
Speaker 5: a break. Those are all tricks so that we're not
26:07
Speaker 5: disturbing the patron during the set. We want to make
26:11
Speaker 5: sure that it is a great focal listening experience. We
26:15
Speaker 5: want people off their phones. We want them to be
26:18
Speaker 5: paying attention to the show.
26:19
Speaker 1: Okay, Nara, you're primarily Chicago East, and I imagine staying
26:26
Speaker 1: in the same... routable area for the most part probably
26:30
Speaker 1: helps with looking and overseeing the venues that they're close
26:34
Speaker 1: enough that you can be in any room in a
26:36
Speaker 1: handful of hours from where you are in New York.
26:39
Speaker 1: And your team can jump back and forth as need
26:42
Speaker 1: be as things shift and things happen because it's a
26:44
Speaker 1: live experience. It's the restaurant business. Things are chaotic at best.
26:50
Speaker 1: Between dealing with the public, dealing with the artists, and
26:53
Speaker 1: dealing with multiple different health departments, city codes, all of
26:58
Speaker 1: the things that play into it. I mean, you're wearing
27:00
Speaker 1: a lot of hats in a lot of markets simultaneously.
27:03
Speaker 1: And I imagine every single one of these markets operates
27:06
Speaker 1: in its own unique way between Chicago politics, DC politics,
27:12
Speaker 1: old school Boston politics, getting into the South and Nashville
27:15
Speaker 1: and Atlanta. Like you're playing a whole bunch of different
27:19
Speaker 1: worlds simultaneously. And I know they all operate just a
27:22
Speaker 1: little bit different. Yeah.
27:24
Speaker 5: Right now we have 17 kitchens. And yeah, there's a
27:28
Speaker 5: lot of different rules around your Ansel system and which
27:33
Speaker 5: fire department does it a certain way. But as long
27:36
Speaker 5: as you have good equipment and that can be the
27:39
Speaker 5: same equipment behind the scenes.
27:41
Speaker 2: I mean, we want to be unique.
27:42
Speaker 5: We don't want to be cookie cutter, but the more
27:45
Speaker 5: we can be practical about our infrastructure and our our
27:49
Speaker 5: back end. So we have all the same POS equipment, right?
27:53
Speaker 5: We have very similar ovens and cuisine in each location.
27:58
Speaker 5: So we're trying to create the stuff that's invisible to
28:00
Speaker 5: the public to be very much similar. But building something
28:04
Speaker 5: at scale is exciting for me. But what we're doing
28:08
Speaker 5: differently than I think some of the bigger promoters that
28:11
Speaker 5: you have, or obviously the industry with Live Nation and AEG,
28:15
Speaker 5: et cetera, is we're trying to scale intimacy. All our
28:18
Speaker 5: rooms are 300, 350 capacity, which allows the musician on
28:24
Speaker 5: the stage to look in the eye of every person
28:28
Speaker 5: in the room if they want, right? The distance between
28:31
Speaker 5: the front of the stage and the back of the
28:33
Speaker 5: house is maybe 65 feet at max. And so to me,
28:37
Speaker 5: that defines intimacy. And we do a lot around private
28:41
Speaker 5: events as well. And the same thing, why is our
28:43
Speaker 5: room a very go-to place to have weddings and bar
28:47
Speaker 5: mitzvahs and And 50th birthday parties is the father of
28:51
Speaker 5: the bride or the CEO on stage can command and
28:54
Speaker 5: control and talk to everybody in the room because it
28:57
Speaker 5: still feels intimate. Once you get to 500, 600, 700
29:00
Speaker 5: and larger, it is really very hard to call that
29:04
Speaker 5: an intimate room. There are great rooms, you know, the Ryman, Carnegie,
29:08
Speaker 5: these are great. bigger rooms, but you can't look in
29:12
Speaker 5: everybody's eyes from the stage. And so that's what we're
29:16
Speaker 5: trying to scale, is scale and intimacy.
29:18
Speaker 1: Okay. I love the term scaling intimacy. It's a really
29:21
Speaker 1: great term, right? Because you've got a particular brand that
29:24
Speaker 1: you guys have built out. And when they actually play
29:26
Speaker 1: the City Winery, they know they're getting a certain vibe
29:29
Speaker 1: when they're playing. It doesn't matter which market they're hitting.
29:31
Speaker 1: With that in mind, is there a target capacity you
29:34
Speaker 1: were looking for first seated room when you were looking
29:37
Speaker 1: for a new location?
29:38
Speaker 4: Always very close to a deal in Toronto and Los Angeles.
29:43
Speaker 5: And we have property we own now in Detroit and Columbus,
29:47
Speaker 5: Ohio and Scottsdale. Every room is 300 to 325 seats
29:54
Speaker 5: paid with a couple of extra little guest spots, you know,
29:57
Speaker 5: here and there, but like It's all around that 300 number.
30:01
Speaker 5: And again, that number is picked because that is the
30:08
Speaker 5: size of the space that allows.
30:11
Speaker 2: For that feeling of intimacy.
30:13
Speaker 5: Um, and then when we do a, you know, a,
30:15
Speaker 5: a 10 city offer to again, Lyle Lovett or whomever
30:20
Speaker 5: we can easily go, we're going to do five nights
30:23
Speaker 5: in New York, four in Chicago, three in Columbus, and
30:26
Speaker 5: they're all the same capacity. It makes the, the math,
30:30
Speaker 5: the understanding of our room, just a lot easier for
30:33
Speaker 5: the business.
30:34
Speaker 1: Detroit and Columbus desperately need a venue of that size. Absolutely.
30:39
Speaker 1: Toronto international city. You're gonna have to start dealing with
30:42
Speaker 1: border crossings. That's going to, that actually always adds an
30:45
Speaker 1: interesting thing. I'm sure your team's up for it. LA
30:47
Speaker 1: definitely needs more listening rooms. They have some mostly for comedy,
30:51
Speaker 1: but I think what you're looking to do, that city
30:54
Speaker 1: is definitely.
30:55
Speaker 5: We're going to do is talk about putting my foot
30:58
Speaker 5: in my mouth, but here we go. We're going to
31:00
Speaker 5: do two at the same time. We're going to do
31:03
Speaker 5: an East and West because LA, the traffic is so
31:07
Speaker 5: fucking terrible. And if you live in Santa Monica, you're
31:11
Speaker 5: not going to Silver Lake at seven o'clock to meet
31:13
Speaker 5: a friend. And if you are, you know, in Highland
31:16
Speaker 5: Park or downtown, you're not going to Santa Monica for
31:19
Speaker 5: a show at seven 30. It's just, people aren't going
31:22
Speaker 5: to do that. So our size room, I'm looking at
31:25
Speaker 5: two different East and West. We'll be able to do again,
31:29
Speaker 5: someone like a lot of love it on the West
31:31
Speaker 5: side and the East side the next day. And we'll
31:34
Speaker 5: actually be able to scale the, the management and the
31:37
Speaker 5: programming marketing pretty effectively. And I think that's, that's our
31:42
Speaker 5: answer to the challenges of Los Angeles.
31:45
Speaker 1: Now, Scott, still be interesting because MIM does exist there
31:48
Speaker 1: and you guys will be direct competition with.
31:51
Speaker 2: It's a really cool.
31:51
Speaker 1: He does exactly the same kind of thing that programming
31:54
Speaker 1: was that you guys will be doing. So you've done
31:56
Speaker 1: a great job of picking markets where you guys would
31:59
Speaker 1: be niche to the market. But in this particular case,
32:02
Speaker 1: you guys are legitimately going into it. If Scottsdale's a
32:05
Speaker 1: richer market than the Phoenix proper, you guys are in
32:09
Speaker 1: a very high-end suburb. And that's picked well. It's a
32:13
Speaker 1: good-sized market.
32:14
Speaker 2: Huge.
32:15
Speaker 5: The Phoenix, Scottsdale metropolitan area is, I think, the seventh
32:20
Speaker 5: or eighth largest in the country right now.
32:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, the DMA is solid in Phoenix and.
32:26
Speaker 5: I look at you looking it up, but it is.
32:29
Speaker 5: It's a very, very healthy market.
32:31
Speaker 1: Sorry, it's 13th biggest dam. If we have that in
32:33
Speaker 1: our avail sheet, I nerd out on that stuff. It's
32:36
Speaker 1: just awesome. It's like, how big is the market? But
32:38
Speaker 1: Phoenix is an interesting market, right? Because there's three performing
32:41
Speaker 1: arts centers that are run by the cities in the suburbs.
32:44
Speaker 1: You have Mesa, you got Transylvania, you got Scottsdale. They've
32:47
Speaker 1: all got different sized rooms, but they book by committee.
32:49
Speaker 1: Except Randy Gogol doesn't, but he does a group so
32:51
Speaker 1: much bigger than you're talking about. It's a whole different world.
32:54
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. So you're talking about If you opened
32:57
Speaker 1: up all of these rooms and I'm guessing some of
32:58
Speaker 1: them are, you're just still scouting and figuring out your priorities,
33:01
Speaker 1: but you almost doubling the size of your venues in
33:03
Speaker 1: the next couple of years. If you, if you open
33:05
Speaker 1: up in all these markets.
33:06
Speaker 5: I hope to open up in more, all these markets
33:09
Speaker 5: have a healthy bar mitzvah scene, which is really important.
33:13
Speaker 5: A very healthy wedding, private events scene right now, city winery,
33:18
Speaker 5: 35% of our business is private. And you know, when
33:22
Speaker 5: you have a turnkey, great room that can cater put AV,
33:27
Speaker 5: you know, projected 4K video all over and a really
33:32
Speaker 5: good sound system.
33:33
Speaker 4: What do all the privates have in common?
33:35
Speaker 5: Whether it's a wedding, a corporate event, or a 50th
33:39
Speaker 5: birthday party, generally there's some live entertainment and there's video.
33:43
Speaker 5: And so if you want to get a good performer
33:46
Speaker 5: to come in, bringing them into a hotel with a
33:48
Speaker 5: temporary stage, you know, is no good, or a beer-smelling
33:53
Speaker 5: you know, larger room isn't necessarily at the standard that
33:57
Speaker 5: type of privates that we're doing.
33:58
Speaker 2: So it's a great mix for us.
34:01
Speaker 1: Historically, things like the AMC theaters have been on a
34:07
Speaker 1: level where parents were comfortable dropping their kids off at
34:10
Speaker 1: the venue and leaving them because they knew they were clean,
34:12
Speaker 1: safe places. And that seemed to be the idea with
34:15
Speaker 1: the House of Blues is they were at a different
34:17
Speaker 1: level club than some of the more steedy clubs where
34:21
Speaker 1: it was They were clean. You knew that you could
34:24
Speaker 1: lead your kids there. You didn't have to necessarily go
34:26
Speaker 1: in and sit through the rock band that maybe your
34:29
Speaker 1: kids wanted to see that you didn't necessarily want to
34:31
Speaker 1: listen to. But you could drop them off and pick
34:33
Speaker 1: them up and you could trust that this was a
34:36
Speaker 1: reputable place that you could lead your kids. You certainly
34:39
Speaker 1: have a high-end vision of a product that people know
34:44
Speaker 1: your brand and they know the food is of a
34:46
Speaker 1: certain quality, the talent is a certain quality. Not that
34:49
Speaker 1: they're necessarily sending their kids. It's probably more of a
34:51
Speaker 1: perfect first date night or great anniversary place to go, right?
34:55
Speaker 1: It's definitely a higher end experience than the average. It's
34:59
Speaker 1: definitely built a brand on a certain level, but clearly
35:03
Speaker 1: you guys have played into building that brand and I'm
35:05
Speaker 1: sure great expense.
35:07
Speaker 5: Oh, well, expense, that's a whole nother conversation. But I
35:11
Speaker 5: think a word that you haven't used yet, which is
35:13
Speaker 5: important is authenticity and not to overuse that. But the
35:18
Speaker 5: fact that we make our own wine We use a
35:21
Speaker 5: lot of adaptive, reusable spaces. I like to go in
35:26
Speaker 5: an old building so you can have the natural vibe
35:30
Speaker 5: of brick and wood and materials that are softer and
35:36
Speaker 5: maybe maintain some history. All of that is part of
35:39
Speaker 5: what we're trying to create.
35:41
Speaker 2: In a space. The space is really, really important.
35:44
Speaker 5: It is the stage and the setting for the moment
35:47
Speaker 5: that we're trying to create each night between the artist
35:51
Speaker 5: and their fan. And so all of these components are critical.
35:55
Speaker 5: So I see that as the book title that I
35:58
Speaker 5: did was called Indulge Your Senses. And the whole idea
36:01
Speaker 5: and the side, the second line was scaling intimacy. But
36:05
Speaker 5: the idea of indulging your senses is all the components
36:08
Speaker 5: that go into a listening experience. If you can enhance
36:12
Speaker 5: the smells and the sound and the feel and the
36:15
Speaker 5: look and engage all of your senses in You can
36:18
Speaker 5: have this extra magical moment. These moments that we're all
36:23
Speaker 5: creating in the industry are our memories that last a lifetime.
36:27
Speaker 5: And so, you know, our role in it is, is
36:30
Speaker 5: trying to create the greatest medium or stage or room
36:34
Speaker 5: that we can possibly do and, and make it as
36:37
Speaker 5: perfect an evening as possible. And we've created our little
36:40
Speaker 5: niche of, of a, of a romantic winery with the
36:44
Speaker 5: right materials.
36:45
Speaker 2: All right.
36:46
Speaker 1: A couple of things I want to break for a second.
36:47
Speaker 1: You said PLS a minute ago. I want to point
36:49
Speaker 1: out for people that don't know the industry term, it's
36:52
Speaker 1: point of sale.
36:53
Speaker 2: That you were referring to.
36:55
Speaker 1: The idea of you guys with your own wine, I
36:57
Speaker 1: have this vision of you in the old I Love
36:59
Speaker 1: Lucy show with her stepping on the grapes to crush
37:03
Speaker 1: the grapes. I just love the idea of you doing
37:05
Speaker 1: crush yourself.
37:06
Speaker 5: We used that imagery for about a year when we
37:10
Speaker 5: opened I Love Lucy.
37:12
Speaker 4: And then, of course, we got sued by the estate.
37:15
Speaker 4: So we stopped using that.
37:16
Speaker 1: Desilute production suing.
37:18
Speaker 2: Yes.
37:18
Speaker 1: Genius to me. Let's talk about the book. Did you
37:22
Speaker 1: do a book tour? Was it a full-scale book? Was
37:24
Speaker 1: it self-published? How did that play out?
37:26
Speaker 5: I have really, really special timing with things. So we
37:30
Speaker 5: opened City Winery during the financial crisis in 08.
37:34
Speaker 1: So our first.
37:34
Speaker 5: Grapes arrived the week Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy. And then
37:40
Speaker 5: building our new flagship in New York, which is by
37:43
Speaker 5: far the biggest, nicest project I've ever done from a
37:46
Speaker 5: construction and investment standpoint. We opened that with our first
37:51
Speaker 5: show targeted in February of 2020.
37:53
Speaker 2: So really, really good timing.
37:56
Speaker 4: Just give me a call whenever you want to invest
37:58
Speaker 4: and open something really special.
38:00
Speaker 5: With that said, right before the opening of New York
38:04
Speaker 5: was when I released the book. So I had A
38:06
Speaker 5: whole bunch of different activities planned, a lot of college talks,
38:10
Speaker 5: et cetera, and most of that went away.
38:13
Speaker 2: But I did sell three or four copies.
38:14
Speaker 1: My parents bought one.
38:16
Speaker 2: You obviously didn't. As you said, you.
38:19
Speaker 1: I honestly missed it. I think I'm waiting for the
38:24
Speaker 1: audio book.
38:25
Speaker 2: It's out.
38:25
Speaker 4: No, I did the audio myself, actually, two days in
38:28
Speaker 4: the studio.
38:29
Speaker 2: It's on Audible.
38:30
Speaker 4: You'll miss that one too, Dan.
38:32
Speaker 1: That I will check out because I got to tell you,
38:34
Speaker 1: I haven't read a book cover to cover since my
38:36
Speaker 1: kid was born, but I am finding it now that
38:39
Speaker 1: she's going back to college. I am finding it happening now.
38:41
Speaker 1: Occasionally I'll pick a book up while I'm on an airplane,
38:44
Speaker 1: but I tend to do the audible. Yes. It's a,
38:46
Speaker 1: it's a much easier way to digest, especially if you
38:49
Speaker 1: spend the day in front of a screen. Sure. I
38:51
Speaker 1: really want to stop reading for a little while. So the, I've,
38:53
Speaker 1: I've really found getting back to books is much easier
38:56
Speaker 1: now with the audible.
38:57
Speaker 2: It's audible.
38:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
38:59
Speaker 2: I'm what I am.
38:59
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan and digest a ton of literature.
39:03
Speaker 1: via listening.
39:04
Speaker 5: Well, you'll, you'll find it has some fun stories, you know,
39:07
Speaker 5: Lou Reed or Prince and et cetera, but it also
39:10
Speaker 5: does a little bit of trying to bring it back
39:12
Speaker 5: to some business lessons.
39:14
Speaker 1: Who published the book? I forgot.
39:16
Speaker 5: Let's look over here. It's, um, they haven't sent me
39:18
Speaker 5: a royalty in a long time. Post Hill Press, but
39:22
Speaker 5: they haven't sent me a royalty in three years. So I, I, uh, I,
39:25
Speaker 5: I got to relook at my contract.
39:27
Speaker 1: Maybe time for a check-in lane. Make sure they were
39:29
Speaker 1: making sure that he has no.
39:31
Speaker 3: Okay.
39:31
Speaker 1: So wanted to talk about those things, but maybe a
39:34
Speaker 1: reliving of the book tour should, should happen. Like when
39:36
Speaker 1: you're opening the city winery LA, maybe that should, that
39:39
Speaker 1: should be maybe the time for the reading. Maybe I've,
39:42
Speaker 1: I've got another project I'm starting to write about.
39:45
Speaker 2: It's called 10,000 bottles.
39:47
Speaker 5: And it's essentially, I mean, there was a thesis to
39:50
Speaker 5: the indulge your senses, which is that experience of going
39:54
Speaker 5: to a venue and fully engaging all your senses is
39:58
Speaker 5: an important antidote to all of the screens and computers
40:03
Speaker 5: and phone stuff that we're dealing with every day. So
40:06
Speaker 5: the need, the human need for sort of connecting for
40:10
Speaker 5: at least a couple hours, whether it's a yoga class
40:13
Speaker 5: or a concert and the importance of what we do
40:15
Speaker 5: in society these days of, you know, being this place
40:20
Speaker 5: that you can de-stress, you know, an anecdote. So the 10,000
40:24
Speaker 5: bottle thesis is that the same sensory uniqueness can't be
40:29
Speaker 5: replicated by AI, you know, and as great as large
40:33
Speaker 5: language models are right now with helping you write, helping
40:36
Speaker 5: you make music, helping you make art, you know, make film,
40:40
Speaker 5: it doesn't, it can't yet figure out feel and smell
40:46
Speaker 5: and touch. And luckily some of these senses are, are
40:49
Speaker 5: still preserved. And therefore you got to drink 10,000 bottles
40:53
Speaker 5: to really understand the art of wine.
40:55
Speaker 1: You know, you've been an entrepreneur for a very long
40:57
Speaker 1: time and anybody that's listened to the interview this far
41:00
Speaker 1: has picked up the, you're a writer, you are opening venues.
41:04
Speaker 1: You've got how many kitchens? You say 11 right now?
41:07
Speaker 2: It's more than that.
41:08
Speaker 5: No, no, no.
41:08
Speaker 4: We have a 17 when you add up all the locations.
41:11
Speaker 1: 17 kitchens.
41:11
Speaker 2: Yes.
41:12
Speaker 1: That's so at scale, you're an entrepreneur, right? You're creating things.
41:16
Speaker 1: And before the city winery, you had rock clubs and
41:20
Speaker 1: you had them in several markets. Knitting factories still exists
41:23
Speaker 1: in Boise and in Spokane. Yep. Which were the old big,
41:28
Speaker 1: you'd Reno.
41:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were the big easy.
41:31
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that Reno's there anymore.
41:33
Speaker 2: I don't know.
41:34
Speaker 1: I don't pay attention.
41:34
Speaker 5: I'm not involved. I, I left in oh three and, um,
41:38
Speaker 5: In my exit agreement, I had the rights to go
41:42
Speaker 5: to any.
41:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, they closed.
41:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:44
Speaker 5: I had rights to go to any club with four
41:48
Speaker 5: people any night and drink as much as I want
41:50
Speaker 5: as a founder.
41:51
Speaker 2: I never really did that.
41:53
Speaker 4: I just didn't have the stomach for it.
41:55
Speaker 1: Arena's always been a weird market. Anytime you go to
41:57
Speaker 1: a market that has a casino in it, it's hard
41:59
Speaker 1: to bring entertainment in as a standalone.
42:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look at Vegas.
42:03
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a... Yeah, I mean, Shappy's having good
42:05
Speaker 1: success with the bowl, but again, corporates is really kind
42:08
Speaker 1: of like helping that along too, but it's a hard
42:11
Speaker 1: thing to be compete with the casinos because they're lost
42:14
Speaker 1: leaders for them. So they're going to pick off the
42:16
Speaker 1: heavy talent right off the bat. So knit anyway, knitting
42:19
Speaker 1: factory LA was always a fun club. Cause you guys
42:22
Speaker 1: were on basically.
42:23
Speaker 2: Hollywood and vine.
42:24
Speaker 1: And it was, you know, right there by the men's
42:27
Speaker 1: Grum journey theater. And I reviewed the skull and phone
42:31
Speaker 1: parties used to be there.
42:32
Speaker 4: Right.
42:32
Speaker 1: So the cool guys in the industry, uh, would hang there.
42:36
Speaker 1: And it was a fun club. And it wasn't where
42:39
Speaker 1: anything else was, right? Because Hollywood and Vine is a
42:41
Speaker 1: tourist area. It's not where, and you know, granted, the
42:45
Speaker 1: Roxy and the Whiskey and the True aren't 20 minutes away.
42:50
Speaker 1: They're five minutes by car, but they're on the other
42:53
Speaker 1: side of Sunset. And you guys picked a different part
42:56
Speaker 1: of town and maybe kind of focusing on the tourists,
42:58
Speaker 1: but you were in New York and you had a
42:59
Speaker 1: small venue there. And then obviously there was a sale
43:02
Speaker 1: and there was other things and the company has changed
43:04
Speaker 1: and it's continued on and, you know, mostly out of, uh, Boise,
43:09
Speaker 1: I think, uh, Chris Moore and his team are. festival
43:13
Speaker 1: stuff and randomly, but they continue to survive as one
43:15
Speaker 1: of the stronger independents with their ballrooms. And yet the
43:19
Speaker 1: starting of the days before it became what it is
43:21
Speaker 1: now was your vision and company. Let's talk a little
43:25
Speaker 1: bit about how you started that. And the idea of
43:27
Speaker 1: running clubs in different cities on different coasts, like I
43:31
Speaker 1: know Bill Graham did it, but like to do things
43:33
Speaker 1: 3000 miles apart from each other seems like a fucking
43:37
Speaker 1: nightmare until you build the middle of the country into it.
43:39
Speaker 1: And you organically figure out your distribution system all the
43:42
Speaker 1: way down. Like you have now with city winery. Different animals.
43:46
Speaker 5: I started the knitting factory when I was 23 years
43:49
Speaker 5: old with my bar mitzvah savings, you know, and for
43:52
Speaker 5: 10 years ran it myself without investors or partners. It was, uh,
43:58
Speaker 5: a thing for a young person to be able to
44:01
Speaker 5: stand and drink beer and both independent.
44:04
Speaker 1: Was it New York?
44:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was on Houston street in New York in 1986.
44:08
Speaker 4: I signed the lease. Our first shows were 87.
44:12
Speaker 1: And you open up your bar mitzvah money. You clearly
44:15
Speaker 1: didn't get that kind of money at your bar mitzvah.
44:17
Speaker 1: But obviously it's a nice way to start life out,
44:20
Speaker 1: but no, I get it without a loan.
44:23
Speaker 4: Were you ever at the first knitting factory on Houston street?
44:27
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, so it.
44:29
Speaker 4: Truly started with a couple of shekels in a piggy bank.
44:33
Speaker 1: Oh, did you bring in the Yiddish?
44:36
Speaker 2: Well, shekel, it's just, you know, yeah.
44:39
Speaker 5: You know, I got my New York promoter Yiddish. So, yeah,
44:43
Speaker 5: I truly did. And I was managing a band and
44:46
Speaker 5: lived in the back and went to a fitness club
44:49
Speaker 5: around the corner to shower.
44:51
Speaker 4: I mean, it was quite a time.
44:53
Speaker 1: I was, you know.
44:55
Speaker 5: friendly with Hilly Crystal at CB's. And, you know, it
44:57
Speaker 5: was a very interesting moment in, in, uh, the late eighties.
45:03
Speaker 5: And we had everything from alternative jazz to middle road
45:08
Speaker 5: jazz to very avant-garde and then a lot of independent
45:11
Speaker 5: rock stuff and Sonic Youth and, First Beck shows and
45:15
Speaker 5: Indigo Girls, all that kind of stuff came through.
45:18
Speaker 1: So what made you go from New York to L.A.
45:19
Speaker 1: to open a second? That was the second club, right?
45:22
Speaker 5: It was the second, and at the time, for me,
45:24
Speaker 5: the only other. Yeah, I had a Bill Graham wannabe feeling.
45:30
Speaker 1: As we all do, right? In the industry, you want
45:33
Speaker 1: to be the best.
45:34
Speaker 5: But the Knitting Factory and what I got really focused
45:37
Speaker 5: on in 97, 98, and we built L.A. in 99,
45:42
Speaker 5: you know, so I was already 12 years into the club,
45:44
Speaker 5: was the whole world of records, TV content. You know,
45:51
Speaker 5: we overdosed on technology, right? So we had a deal
45:55
Speaker 5: with A & M Records, which was what got us
45:58
Speaker 5: started in the record business. And by the time I
46:01
Speaker 5: left in 03, we had 300 titles under the Knitting
46:06
Speaker 5: Factory label brand. It was a pretty interesting... you know,
46:10
Speaker 5: record company meets content generator. And between the dot-com sort
46:16
Speaker 5: of bust in 99, 2000 and then 9-11, things made
46:21
Speaker 5: it were very, very difficult. And that, again, talk about
46:24
Speaker 5: my impeccable timing, you know, that after being open in
46:28
Speaker 5: Hollywood for about a year is when, you bust really
46:34
Speaker 5: hurt the tourism industry big time, not just in New York,
46:37
Speaker 5: but in, you know, Hollywood. And that it made it
46:40
Speaker 5: very difficult from that time forward.
46:43
Speaker 1: Both sides of the country simultaneously growth. And then you
46:48
Speaker 1: decide to sell.
46:49
Speaker 5: Sell sounds much better than truly the story. You know,
46:54
Speaker 5: I was a naive entrepreneur. I'm certainly way older, a
46:58
Speaker 5: little wiser.
46:59
Speaker 1: Today. You all learn by doing, right? But you know,
47:02
Speaker 1: I better fail. Failure is the best lessons, right?
47:05
Speaker 2: It absolutely is.
47:06
Speaker 5: And I, I encourage my team to make mistakes as
47:09
Speaker 5: much as possible. Just don't make them repeatedly, but yeah.
47:13
Speaker 5: And I took my first investment money in 96. I
47:17
Speaker 5: took then a second round in 97 and then another
47:20
Speaker 5: in 98 and then a fourth in 99. So multiple
47:23
Speaker 5: layers of vaulter capital or venture capital, whatever you, however
47:27
Speaker 5: you want to call it.
47:28
Speaker 4: I diluted myself out, essentially. So by the time.
47:32
Speaker 5: The 2000 came, I might have had 50% of common shares,
47:37
Speaker 5: but I really didn't control the company that I had
47:41
Speaker 5: started anymore. And it made things very challenging with the
47:46
Speaker 5: investors and those who.
47:49
Speaker 4: Had the preferred control of the stock.
47:52
Speaker 2: Did you still own any of.
47:54
Speaker 1: The knitting factory? No, I got out. So you did
47:58
Speaker 1: sell your shares at some point.
47:59
Speaker 5: I sold my shares that were worthless. What I ended
48:02
Speaker 5: up selling was my board seat. Cause they couldn't stand
48:06
Speaker 5: me at board meetings where I was like, you shouldn't
48:09
Speaker 5: do this. You shouldn't add, you got to think about
48:11
Speaker 5: this again. And they're like, Jesus Christ, you know, like
48:14
Speaker 5: shut the fuck up. Just, you know, what can we
48:17
Speaker 5: do to get you out of here? I'm like, well,
48:19
Speaker 5: buy my shares out. So, um, no, I, I, I
48:22
Speaker 5: think I got paid to stop being a pain in
48:24
Speaker 5: the ass.
48:25
Speaker 2: And it was nothing.
48:26
Speaker 5: And basically the little bit of bupkis, there you go,
48:29
Speaker 5: was put into City Winery. So I was able to
48:34
Speaker 5: just take the little bit that I had and put
48:36
Speaker 5: it into the new venture.
48:38
Speaker 1: Now, what was the break from the time that you
48:39
Speaker 1: left Knitting Factory to the time you opened your doors
48:42
Speaker 1: in the first City Winery? What was the gap there?
48:45
Speaker 5: I wandered in the desert for three years, basically. I'm
48:50
Speaker 5: bringing in all the Dewey references.
48:52
Speaker 2: Loving it.
48:53
Speaker 1: It's Sunday morning. We should be having some walk and
48:56
Speaker 1: schmear with this.
48:58
Speaker 2: I already did. It's a little later for you.
49:01
Speaker 1: We're on the West Coast.
49:02
Speaker 2: I already had my morning minion. I got out basically
49:05
Speaker 2: in 2003.
49:05
Speaker 5: In 2004, I did three really pivotal things in 2004.
49:17
Speaker 5: Number one, I made a barrel of wine out in California.
49:20
Speaker 5: and I truly drank to Kool-Aid. I was like, I'd
49:23
Speaker 5: always been a collector, but the art, the craftsmanship that
49:28
Speaker 5: goes into winemaking, I never got to really observe it
49:31
Speaker 5: in the same way. And so I fell in love
49:32
Speaker 5: with the craft of winemaking. The second thing I did
49:35
Speaker 5: is I started a concert series at Carnegie Hall, which
49:38
Speaker 5: I do to this day. It's the Music Of, and
49:41
Speaker 5: that has now raised about $ 2. 5 million for charity. It's
49:45
Speaker 5: a 20-person best of a particular honoree. So I've done
49:50
Speaker 5: everyone from the Rolling Stones to Bob Dylan to Joni Mitchell.
49:54
Speaker 2: It's a great series.
49:56
Speaker 5: You can see it, Music Of, and it raises money
49:58
Speaker 5: for music education.
50:00
Speaker 2: And then the third thing I did.
50:01
Speaker 5: Was I started a little Hebrew school for my kids
50:04
Speaker 5: in Tribeca called Tribeca Hebrew. In 2004... We had 23 kids. 2005,
50:12
Speaker 5: it jumped to 85 kids. In 2006, it went to
50:16
Speaker 5: 140 kids, all going to Tribeca Hebrew. And we, you know,
50:21
Speaker 5: it was an afterschool program. Now, I was not going
50:24
Speaker 5: to be a principal of a Hebrew school. I clearly
50:26
Speaker 5: wanted to be.
50:27
Speaker 2: Back in the business.
50:28
Speaker 5: But those three, four years between 03 and starting City
50:33
Speaker 5: Winery at the end of 07, was a very interesting year.
50:37
Speaker 5: But I knew what I wasn't going to do, which
50:39
Speaker 5: was pure philanthropy, and that I wanted to do something
50:43
Speaker 5: with wine and the craft and the authenticity of actually
50:48
Speaker 5: making this great beverage and then combine it with live
50:52
Speaker 5: music and create a great experience for people. So it
50:55
Speaker 5: was a pretty formative couple of years. It sounds like
51:00
Speaker 5: you think of something and then you figure out how
51:03
Speaker 5: to do it.
51:04
Speaker 4: Yeah.
51:04
Speaker 2: I mean, you hire really good people. I hired a
51:06
Speaker 2: great winemaker.
51:08
Speaker 5: We have some great chefs, obviously great operating people, restaurant people,
51:13
Speaker 5: Shlomo Lipitz, who's head of my programming. He started as
51:17
Speaker 5: an intern. I remember thinking, I'm never going to give
51:21
Speaker 5: up programming. That's the one thing I'm never going to,
51:23
Speaker 5: you know, it's my Rolodex, my contacts, you know, and
51:27
Speaker 5: then within six months, he did such a great job,
51:30
Speaker 5: you know, that started to get delegated as well. And
51:33
Speaker 5: now we have a incredible programming team, and we're thrilled
51:36
Speaker 5: to be truly putting on 7,000 shows a year between
51:40
Speaker 5: all our locations and a lot of tickets and a
51:44
Speaker 5: lot of great experiences for people.
51:47
Speaker 1: Lomo has been on the podcast. He's an interesting guy,
51:51
Speaker 1: to say the least. Not only does he oversee the booking,
51:54
Speaker 1: but he also plays for the Israeli national baseball team,
51:58
Speaker 1: which is an interesting combination that you're not going to
52:01
Speaker 1: find anywhere else in the world. But He's a mensch
52:04
Speaker 1: of a guy and super talented in clearly everything he does.
52:09
Speaker 5: Not everything, but I give him incredible credit. I love
52:13
Speaker 5: the fact that he has worked for me for 18 years.
52:17
Speaker 5: He's always gotten the time off to play baseball. I
52:21
Speaker 5: think your time on is really important, but your time
52:24
Speaker 5: off is just as important. As long as, you know,
52:28
Speaker 5: when you spend time out of the office, you come back,
52:31
Speaker 5: And you really give it everything when you're.
52:33
Speaker 2: In the office and he gives it everything.
52:35
Speaker 5: He's a perfect example of, of an incredible, uh, employee
52:40
Speaker 5: with passion for our brand and wanting to make it better.
52:43
Speaker 1: So he was on episode one 26 for anybody that
52:46
Speaker 1: wants to check out city whiners. It's a great story.
52:49
Speaker 1: So what's next? What's the vision? Obviously you've mentioned the
52:52
Speaker 1: venues you're looking at, but in a grand scale, what's
52:55
Speaker 1: your vision for the future?
52:56
Speaker 4: You know, I kind of explained how with, with the knit,
52:59
Speaker 4: we did so much around content and, and I guess IP,
53:04
Speaker 4: you know, we just, we own copyrights, we owned publishing.
53:08
Speaker 4: We had TV series that were aired in 20 countries
53:12
Speaker 4: live from the knitting factory did so much of that. I've,
53:16
Speaker 4: I've gone against that thinking with city winery. I love
53:22
Speaker 4: nothing more than to get a big bear hug from
53:26
Speaker 4: an artist who just said, you know, I had the
53:29
Speaker 4: greatest meal backstage where I went with my wife and
53:32
Speaker 4: I came to see a show and, you know, you
53:34
Speaker 4: treated us really well. And thank you.
53:36
Speaker 1: Thank you.
53:37
Speaker 2: It all is good.
53:38
Speaker 5: Versus an artist who looks at you in the eye
53:41
Speaker 5: and goes like, do I have some residuals? You know,
53:44
Speaker 5: that Larry David, I like, you know, do you owe
53:47
Speaker 5: me some residuals from that, you know, Japanese TV show
53:50
Speaker 5: thing we did, you know, like, so the, IP thing
53:53
Speaker 5: is I've kept at bay.
53:55
Speaker 4: I don't really want to do that. I really want
53:58
Speaker 4: to try and scale as many magical moments in as
54:02
Speaker 4: many places as we can on a nightly basis. So
54:05
Speaker 4: what gets me off right now is not having a
54:09
Speaker 4: record label or ownership of any copyright.
54:12
Speaker 2: I love the idea of the potential.
54:15
Speaker 5: Now we have 10, but having 20 or 30 locations
54:20
Speaker 5: where every single night, We're creating this experience for both
54:25
Speaker 5: the artist and the customer to have this connection and
54:28
Speaker 5: create this magic.
54:29
Speaker 2: And that really does get me off the idea of.
54:33
Speaker 5: Scaling the multiple experiences that can happen in the right market.
54:38
Speaker 5: So yeah, I want to keep growing this thing. Uh,
54:41
Speaker 5: I'm young enough and hopefully reasonably smart enough right now,
54:44
Speaker 5: or maybe I'm total idiot, but like now seems like
54:47
Speaker 5: a good time in our society. maybe not in our
54:51
Speaker 5: economy and maybe not with what's going on in the
54:54
Speaker 5: food industry and the drinking industry, right? We're seeing people
54:58
Speaker 5: consuming less and drinking less. We're seeing some challenges in
55:02
Speaker 5: the world of ticketing. But to me, that's all opportunity
55:05
Speaker 5: to create a better space, one that will be in
55:08
Speaker 5: higher demand and more important for our overall health in society.
55:14
Speaker 5: So I want to keep growing, you know, city wineries
55:17
Speaker 5: all over. That's what I want to do.
55:19
Speaker 1: The last question I have for you, and I think
55:21
Speaker 1: it's what everybody's wondering, is there a point in your
55:24
Speaker 1: mind where you sell the chain to one of the
55:28
Speaker 1: big promoters or one of the restaurant companies?
55:31
Speaker 5: You know, maybe, maybe not. Like everything always has a price.
55:36
Speaker 5: So to say, oh, I have so much damn integrity.
55:41
Speaker 5: I would never consider selling to the man. you know,
55:44
Speaker 5: that's bullshit. You know, everything there's, there's always a, a
55:48
Speaker 5: number out there, but right now the most important thing
55:51
Speaker 5: is to me is, is finding capital to keep growing
55:55
Speaker 5: this thing and keep me busy. My, my grandpa worked
55:59
Speaker 5: till he was 91 years old. You know, there's something
56:02
Speaker 5: in the, the Bengals Dorf, it was shortened to Dorf
56:06
Speaker 5: at Ellis Island, but like something in the DNA that,
56:10
Speaker 5: you know, my grandfather, my, Dad and my children, we
56:15
Speaker 5: have and we enjoy work. And when you can't really
56:18
Speaker 5: tell the difference between work and play, and you're having
56:22
Speaker 5: so much fun at what you do, you know, I
56:25
Speaker 5: don't want to change that. I want to keep doing
56:27
Speaker 5: what I'm doing.
56:28
Speaker 4: So as long as I can do what I'm doing,
56:30
Speaker 4: that's my goal.
56:31
Speaker 1: So capital, maybe another joint venture kind of concept, but
56:35
Speaker 1: another 35 to 40 years of you at the helm
56:37
Speaker 1: is what I'm hearing.
56:38
Speaker 2: If I can live that long, Zygosun.
56:41
Speaker 1: Bringing the Yiddish all day long.
56:42
Speaker 2: Love it. Michael Dorff, Promoter 101.
56:44
Speaker 1: From scaling the magic and intimacy to figuring out what
56:48
Speaker 1: gets you off. Thank you so much for spending Sunday
56:51
Speaker 1: morning with us.
56:52
Speaker 2: Hey, it's my pleasure.
56:53
Speaker 4: I've been a listener for a while and I enjoy
56:56
Speaker 4: most of the guests you have.
56:59
Speaker 2: This is Bob Rue with Live Nation and I'm on
57:01
Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
57:02
Speaker 1: And now the quote of the month. Strive not to
57:05
Speaker 1: be a success. but rather to be valued. This one
57:09
Speaker 1: comes to us from the great Albert Einstein. Jewish family,
57:13
Speaker 1: do you think?
57:13
Speaker 4: Albert, Albert Einstein.
57:15
Speaker 1: Albert's busy at Temple right now with the holidays, but
57:19
Speaker 1: he'll get back to you after the holidays and his
57:21
Speaker 1: fasting is done. Once he breaks the fast, Albert will
57:24
Speaker 1: call you back.
57:24
Speaker 4: Shalom to all of our listeners out there. I'm recording
57:27
Speaker 4: this podcast on the high holiday.
57:29
Speaker 1: We are not recording this podcast on the holidays, the
57:32
Speaker 1: day after the holiday. I'm already a bad enough Jew
57:35
Speaker 1: as it is. Let's be clear. Yesterday was the holiday.
57:37
Speaker 1: Today is the day after the holiday. Dan's in Seattle
57:40
Speaker 1: and I'm in London. I have no idea what day
57:42
Speaker 1: it is.
57:43
Speaker 2: We're global, baby. Global.
57:45
Speaker 1: And I'm actually in Mill Valley. That's right.
57:48
Speaker 3: You are. I have visited Dan and his wonderful wife, Lodi,
57:52
Speaker 3: and his daughter, Reese, and his dog, Sammy, at their
57:54
Speaker 3: beautiful new home in Mill Valley. And I am still,
57:57
Speaker 3: like the team, saying Wasserman in Seattle.
58:01
Speaker 1: There you go. Hey, hey, it's David Marcus from Ticketmaster.
58:05
Speaker 1: Get your tickets to hear me on Promoter 101.
58:07
Speaker 2: Where does the time go?
58:09
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for tuning in to this 249th
58:13
Speaker 3: episode of Promoter 101. Until next time, friends, if you
58:16
Speaker 3: want to hear from us in the meantime, drop us
58:18
Speaker 3: a line. Hit us at steiny at promoter101.
58:19
Speaker 4: Net.
58:21
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you.
58:22
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll be back October 29th. And from
58:25
Speaker 1: then on, you can catch us on the last Thursday
58:28
Speaker 1: of every month.
58:30
Speaker 4: And between now and then, we're wishing you sold-out shows.
58:33
Speaker 1: For the month ahead.
58:34
Speaker 4: Cheers.
58:35
Speaker 1: Call your mother. Ooh. Ba-da-ba-ba.
58:42
Speaker 2: Ba-da-ba-ba. All righty. All righty. Promoter 101. Visit the buffet
58:53
Speaker 2: called Promoter 101.
58:53
Speaker 1: Promoter 101.
58:54
Speaker 5: Promoter 101.
58:55
Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
58:56
Speaker 1: Promoter 101. I don't know why No one