Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / How Mathew D. Peters Won Bocuse d’Or – Leadership, Fine Dining & Culinary Competition Insights Ep 149

Transcript

How Mathew D. Peters Won Bocuse d’Or – Leadership, Fine Dining & Culinary Competition Insights Ep 149 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello, chef, This is Chef's PSA podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andre Natera. My guest today is my friend
0:05
Matthew Peters. He's the first American to ever
0:07
win the Bogustior, the prestigious culinary competition
0:11
held in Lyon, France, named after the legendary chef Paul
0:15
Bogus. We're going to talk about that
0:16
competition, the importance of culinary technique and
0:19
definitely some tips on how to be better in the kitchen.
0:22
I think you'll enjoy this one. Stay tuned.
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your first order. And it's it's been a long time.
1:19
I have to say you, you don't know this, but you are the
1:23
number one most requested guest I get for people to get on the
1:27
show. A lot of people like when are
1:29
you going to get Matt Peters on? I'm like, fuck, you got to ask
1:31
Matt. I don't know.
1:33
That's it that's I I mean flattered.
1:35
It's great. You know, I and I know there's
1:38
you know, partly is kind of like, you know, where is he at?
1:40
What's he doing type kind of you requests in some form of
1:44
fashion. So, you know, for me it's, you
1:47
know, just trying to find time with a busy schedule.
1:50
Yeah, You just came back from Leon.
1:52
I mean, not just came back, but what, two months ago?
1:54
A month ago. Yeah, about two months ago.
1:56
For people that don't know, can you kind of tell people,
1:59
obviously you won the Bocuse Dior, first American to ever win
2:01
it, legendary status for that, but what is your current role
2:05
with Bocuse? Can you explain kind of what,
2:07
what it, what the competition is and how you how you tie into
2:10
that? Yeah.
2:11
So, you know, it's things have transitioned lately and, and
2:15
probably for, you know, a a good long term projection for Boku
2:21
store. But now I'm on the world
2:24
committee board. And so it's, it's getting deeper
2:28
into the roots of Boku store and trying to find ways to modernize
2:32
the the competition as well as kind of just diversify it a
2:35
little bit in terms of breaking it out open across the world and
2:41
really representing different countries.
2:42
And it's not just myself. So there's representatives from
2:46
all countries that are going to have a seat at the table, not
2:49
just, you know, majority of the the French IOC was a call
2:54
themselves the international committee board.
2:58
So, you know, this way we can really start to involve more of
3:04
those the historical cultural components of food from these
3:09
different areas and bring them to light in the competition.
3:13
It help it kind of make it more, I don't know how you would make
3:21
it more competitive as well as representative of their own
3:27
countries and the competition. So and I think that's kind of
3:30
one of the goals that public who's had right.
3:32
It was not only to teach the French food and cuisine, but
3:35
also to bring other cultures and other cuisines to the table, to
3:40
learn, to educate and hopefully, you know, find a new way of
3:48
cooking in some form. So for people that don't know
3:50
what the competition is, can you kind of give an overview of what
3:53
the competition looks like? Yeah.
3:54
So it the, the competition is hence if well, it's, it's Justin
4:00
throughout the years, I mean every two years the competition
4:03
is held, there's lead up competitions that are similar
4:07
format that get broken down over that two year process.
4:13
So every other year there will be a larger or smaller
4:17
competitions that are held in different countries.
4:21
So that it takes the top 64, approximately top 64 countries
4:26
and breaks it down to the top 24, kind of like in Olympic
4:29
trials, if you will. And so each country would have,
4:35
you know, a competition that would help that process along.
4:40
You know, the Americas will have one, then you have one in Europe
4:43
and then you have one in South Asia, South America.
4:49
Well, yeah, South America. But all these will eventually
4:53
come together through that breakdown process of
4:57
competitions. And then they will all go to
5:00
Boca store, which you know, the final competition which will be
5:04
held in Lyon, France. That and there you have to do
5:11
this competition, which is in 5 1/2 hours.
5:15
Again, it's changed over the years.
5:17
Every single year they they try to throw A twist to the plot,
5:22
but it's typically done with a plated first dish, which is
5:28
again, has to be some sort of dish that's represented over the
5:31
country that feeds 14 or 12 of with some of the top chefs in
5:38
the world. And then you have a platter that
5:41
also feeds another 12 top chefs of the world on the other side.
5:45
So 24 in total, one chef of every single country that's
5:49
representative there in Lyon. And between those two, the the
5:55
plated dish and the platter, whoever is kind of rated as the
6:00
top within those two circles are his crown the the gold medal
6:05
winner at the end. So what what does a team look
6:07
like? So obviously have the
6:09
competitor, they have a call me what what is what is the entire
6:12
team at the day of the event not not getting there because I'm
6:15
sure there's you know, hundreds or maybe you know, maybe not
6:18
hundreds, but there's a lot of people involved getting there.
6:20
But day of competition, what does the team look?
6:22
Like, yeah, so it's the the chef, the head chef who's kind
6:27
of picked through those trials, right?
6:30
And that that chef is picked to be the representative of that
6:34
country. So in like 2017, that was
6:36
myself. And then there's a call me that
6:39
has to be under the age of 21 at the time of the competition.
6:42
So there is a little bit of a wiggle room.
6:44
I think it's like, you know, he can be like 21 years old and 11
6:48
months and his cell kind of justifies as being 21, but it
6:52
can't be over. And so that again, it's kind of
6:57
the ultimate test. I have a chef of mentoring a
7:00
young cook that's coming up through the ranks and kind of,
7:05
you know, hopefully also is kind of transitioning hope that this
7:09
young competitor will compete down the road as well.
7:13
But it's that gentleman. And then there's a coach that is
7:18
also representative and that coach is kind of like the air
7:22
traffic controller throughout the competition.
7:23
So as you kind of build your run and your timing, that coach is
7:28
there to kind of help you keep track and course of what may or
7:30
may not happen. And then there's a small team
7:34
that's involved around them. So there's, you know, for us, we
7:38
have the mentor foundation. The Mentor Foundation also is a
7:41
support structure of chefs and, and, and also other foodies, if
7:45
you will, that contribute their time and their tastes and their
7:51
ideas to the competition, which make up, you know, there's a ton
7:57
of chefs that usually come out on board.
7:59
And then we usually position ourselves with a chef board of
8:03
structure that's on the outside of that too, which could be up
8:08
to 5 or 6 immediate chefs that kind of help influence some of
8:13
the, the process. And then there's even a smaller
8:17
team that's there to kind of help support the individual
8:20
team. So, you know, even myself, I had
8:23
a kind of a project manager, if you will, that would do a lot of
8:27
documentation through our testing and trials.
8:31
You know, the same thing for our call me, which was Harrison
8:34
Tarana at the time. You know, he had a direct
8:38
manager that kind of helped him through his process of from
8:42
documentation of the runs and just kind of giving him updates
8:45
throughout, you know, some of our trials.
8:48
And then from there, we had two to three other young cooks,
8:52
upcoming cooks that wanted to, to learn the competition, but
8:59
also give the opportunity to help us prep and stage
9:02
everything along through that that journey.
9:03
So there is a a decent team that's built around it, but they
9:06
usually don't come on board until the last like 5 to 6
9:09
months of the the competition run because that's when the bulk
9:12
of the work is usually held and. And when you say the day of the
9:16
competition, you have the coach, you have the comedy, you have
9:17
the competitor, but you do you also get a student, right?
9:19
Yeah. So there's yes.
9:22
So there is a student that comes that's, it's a, it's a wild card
9:24
student. You don't know, you don't know
9:27
how much work they've done. You don't know what language
9:30
they talk. It's I mean, when we were there
9:32
in Lyon, they were very heavily French spoken and, and so the
9:37
English was a barrel barrier that we had to overcome.
9:42
But we we kind of known that walking in the door anyway.
9:45
Was your was your comedy or your student French?
9:48
Yeah, 100%. Didn't speak any.
9:50
English they said he did, but. What do you what do you tell
9:53
them to do if you can't communicate with them?
9:55
Because what, how, how, how soon do you find out who your student
9:58
is before the competition starts?
10:00
You don't know. Well, so we were on day 2 and
10:05
we, we knew who our comedy was from day one.
10:08
So we actually got to see him perform before.
10:12
So we can kind of like assess kind of how we wanted our
10:15
approach, you know, our day with it, but you typically don't find
10:20
out until about an hour before you enter the box, which is
10:24
difficult. So you don't know, You just have
10:26
to build your run. You have to build your systems.
10:28
You have to have manuals, you know, both in French and in
10:31
English just so that they're, if they need to go back and revert
10:34
to something while you're in the middle of your run, they can
10:37
kind of read through the process real quickly.
10:39
Yeah, but also you're not giving them challenging tasks.
10:42
I mean, it's really keeping things clean, keeping things
10:45
organized. And then they're doing kind of
10:47
the the call me work, if you will, of, of cooking.
10:50
So it's like chopping chives and herbs and cutting vegetables for
10:55
sauces and stuff like that. Got it.
10:57
When when you're when you're planning for your own
11:00
competition and and maybe maybe your competition was different
11:04
from most recent with Stephanie's, but in general, how
11:07
do you split up the work? Like what are you taking on as
11:09
the competitor and what are you giving to your call me your
11:12
assistant, the 21 year old? I mean, we try to give them as
11:17
much as possible, yeah. So the goal for us is, you know,
11:21
the dump as much work on him as you can possibly he or she,
11:24
whoever is, and in my case it was a you know, it was as
11:28
Harrison, but you know, I did. The goal was to dump as much
11:31
work on to him as possible and to alleviate because then I knew
11:36
if I needed to come back to it, I can lift him up and take on
11:40
those responsibilities. But that's the goal of like
11:43
being the chef, right? You you want to be able to have
11:46
that image of control breaking, you would need to have that
11:50
ability of control. And then but also so I can focus
11:53
on the really detail work, the really kind of the the harder
11:57
pieces. And if you will like the the
12:00
processing of the main protein handling majority of like these
12:05
artful crafts that we kind of did on and the detail work on
12:08
them on the garnishes. So I know you want to be able to
12:12
kind of give yourself that room of in those minutes in the in
12:17
the run, to be able to kind of put out any fires, you know,
12:20
that may arrive, arise. Sorry, but you know, that's
12:24
that's the goal, right. And so we kind of built our run
12:28
and it pushes the cold meat to be, you know, the the better,
12:32
you know, the better cook in the kitchen.
12:34
You talked about having, I mean, when I joked around earlier,
12:37
said hundreds of people. I mean, sometimes it is right
12:39
when you, I mean, give or take a few 10 that are that are
12:42
involved. Everything from the people that
12:44
are designing the platter to the, to the people that are
12:46
showing up and coaching to the people that are, you know,
12:49
walking you through and giving you feedback to raising money,
12:51
sponsors and all that. There's a lot of people
12:53
involved. But these are some of the in the
12:55
United States at least, these are probably some of the, if not
12:58
the biggest names in the culinary world that come
13:00
together to support the to support the competitor, to
13:04
support the organization and to represent the United States.
13:06
Why do you think that is? Because obviously that wasn't
13:11
the case 10 years ago. Well, I think partly is the
13:14
chefs at the top right that kind of brought it brought it all
13:17
together. So you know, it's kind of the
13:20
age-old question or situation of, you know, chef asks, you say
13:25
we chef, you know, you you go in, you dive in and you do it.
13:28
And, you know, it started with, you know, popocus, you know,
13:33
reached out directly to Thomas, you know, Keller to say, well,
13:38
actually, I think it was a combination of Thomas and
13:40
Danielle Balloon And Danielle Balloon being good friends with
13:43
Thomas was like, you need to do this not just for, you know, the
13:49
US, but also for Paul, because Paul wanted to see the
13:52
competition grow within the United States.
13:54
And, you know, he he had a full belief that we had untapped
13:58
talent that just wasn't being represented in in the
14:01
competition. And you know, who was better at
14:04
that time to kind of bring, you know, that that culinary force
14:08
to the table? So Thomas, did you know, like
14:11
any other chef respecting another chef is saying yes.
14:15
And he's like, I would take on this task.
14:18
And, and, and I think that kind of redirected the position of
14:22
where we were and kind of brought other chefs to the table
14:26
too and said, Hey, we have something that I think that we
14:29
could be really great AT and let's bring our resources
14:33
together and, and see what we can do.
14:36
It's funny you talk about Thomas getting a call from, from Paul
14:39
Pakuse. Sometimes when my phone rings
14:42
and it's like a big chef and I'm like, fuck, I kind of don't want
14:44
to answer it because I know they're not calling to see how
14:46
I'm doing, right? They're, you know, if it's, if
14:49
it's a, if it's a big chef and they're calling me, I'm like,
14:52
damn it, what did I do or what do they need me to do, right?
14:55
Like what did I say? Yeah, what did I say?
14:57
Am I in trouble? Did they listen to an episode?
14:59
And I'm like, fuck, my heart drops.
15:00
But it's funny that you say that because, you know, when they
15:03
walk in, it doesn't matter what I've done in my career.
15:05
I'm set up the cutting board for them folding their towels.
15:08
Here's your knife, Chef. Would you like some coffee?
15:10
Absolutely. So hospitality.
15:11
Right, so they're chef. But it's funny how you how you
15:14
say it when you know. Thomas answers the phone to Paul
15:18
Bakusi. A chef.
15:19
Yeah, we we chef. How may I help you?
15:20
I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's the ultimate sign of respect,
15:23
right? And I think, you know, when
15:25
you're talking to somebody who's devoted their life to this craft
15:29
and, and somebody that's highly respected and has transcended,
15:33
you know, culinary cuisine, French cuisine in the United
15:36
States is the way that he has. And you know, I just think, you
15:41
know, that's just, it's just do. Yeah, yeah, it it's, it's it's
15:45
pretty incredible to see all the chefs that come together, the
15:47
amount of resources that come together just to see one
15:51
competitor go compete. And for people that have never
15:53
been to the competition, can you describe what it's like?
15:59
Yeah, I mean, parts of some of it's blacked out, but it's it's
16:04
the competition itself. Even it's it's different when
16:07
you're a competitor going in than it is when you're the
16:11
viewer, right? So what does the viewer see
16:13
first? The viewer sees it's just.
16:15
Like NASCAR? Not not in the scale of NASCAR.
16:19
It's loud. There's not less rat tails and
16:22
and #8 tattoos. But no, I think the you know,
16:26
the competition think of more of like a smaller version of, you
16:29
know, going to a European soccer match.
16:31
OK, right. I mean, the fan base is very
16:34
much loud and in your you know, it's, you know, if you ever seen
16:37
like the Japanese like baseball games and they got them.
16:40
I don't even know what you call them the little hammers and and
16:43
thumpers or whatever it is. And it's just like you're trying
16:46
to make as much noise as possible.
16:49
I mean, you get a full scale band that's playing for Team
16:52
Europe and you know, they're they're trying to distract and
16:55
annoy the other competitors, even trying to a point where,
17:01
you know, there's some sort of translation loss between, you
17:04
know, and kind of create some frantic moments is the goal.
17:09
So if you ever see and I've, you know, posted pictures and it's
17:13
just the the buzz and the excitement in the air of all
17:16
these different countries that are all sitting, you know, in
17:19
the stands. It's it's just who brings
17:21
another word? I well, France, France, yeah,
17:26
obviously being, being there, you know, being there.
17:28
And so they're always a battle. So when you but then following
17:32
from that, most of the Nordic countries are are they come in
17:36
deep because they can travel very quickly there.
17:39
So Denmark, Norway, Sweden always travel very well You.
17:45
Know France won the most recent. France won the most recent one
17:48
and and which was a beautiful story because that Regis Marcon,
17:52
who was the the president of Beaucoupsdor stepped down
17:55
because his son competed this past year for Team France.
17:59
And in this I think the oh man, I think this is like the 30th
18:03
anniversary or maybe I can't remember off the top of my head.
18:06
So I'm probably saying this wrong, so sorry.
18:08
But but since the last time Regis won, so Regis won 30 years
18:14
ago or whatever it was, and he won gold.
18:17
And then now his son came out to compete and then took home gold
18:21
on his 30th anniversary. So yeah, it's just a beautiful
18:25
story in terms of that. And and just to see Regis see
18:29
his son secede, the emotions were pouring.
18:34
You were talking about earlier so that the competitor has to
18:37
make the individual plate in the platter and then you said how
18:40
many judges? So there's, so it's, it's a
18:43
judge per country that's representative in the
18:45
competition. So 24 all day.
18:47
You do have the last competitor who won from the the previous
18:51
cycle comes back as the honorary president.
18:54
And then you also have another honorary president that's
18:58
usually a Top Chef. Right.
18:59
You know, that's and the judges are also the the who's who
19:02
legends. Yeah.
19:02
Absolutely. You know, You know, Thomas was a
19:05
judge back in the day. Then you know Gavin Cason took
19:08
over as the the president of Booker Store USA.
19:11
So this is the president of every single country.
19:14
Then is represented there on the table.
19:16
What are they looking for? I mean, it comes down to flavor,
19:20
right? So.
19:21
It's, I know you've said that to me many times, but I feel like a
19:24
lot of people don't don't hear you say.
19:26
I know. Well, it's in.
19:27
Exactly. So because you see this
19:28
beautiful stuff and you're like, how does that even taste good?
19:31
You know, and and I think there's this association with
19:34
the competition where it's like the food is so pretty that it
19:37
can't taste that good. Yeah.
19:38
And that's kind of the opposite now, yes, there are pretty food
19:42
that just doesn't taste that great, right.
19:44
I mean, we're all kind of. We've all seen it, we've all
19:46
eaten it, and we've all been. I still do it.
19:49
You know, it's like aesthetic, you know, component of it is
19:52
far, you know, it, it, it brings the eye and it brings the, the
19:57
mind trick, right. And I think that's kind of the
19:59
component of it. So, but you always got to hide
20:01
that flavor. You shouldn't say hide it, but
20:03
you, you, you kind of have to tuck it in there to make sure
20:07
that it's still doing the job of what you're set out to do as a
20:11
chef. And that's the make the best
20:12
tasting food that you possibly can and.
20:15
You know, the, and even the way that we judge our competitions
20:18
internally is like, we pick the chef.
20:21
That's that cooks the best, right, hands down.
20:24
And then it's just like the technique and things that we
20:26
build in and around it, the aesthetic component of it that
20:30
that that can be taught, that can be brought in, that can be,
20:33
you know. It could be coached.
20:35
It could be coached, it can be evolved, you know, throughout
20:38
that that process. So we really like trying to
20:41
teach somebody flavors and and a good cooking takes much longer,
20:46
right? And and you got to have you got
20:48
to feel that the the soul of the chef inside there.
20:50
So that's kind of the base that we kind of position off of.
20:55
And it's the same way that the the competition is judged too.
20:58
I mean it's it's like, do you taste the individual in this
21:02
dish? Do you taste their country,
21:04
their their the heart and soul that the individual in there?
21:07
So. This year, what was it?
21:08
Because there was a couple of curveballs this year, right?
21:10
Yeah, there's. Yeah, yeah, there's.
21:12
What we're? Trying to roll that.
21:14
What was the what were some of the new rules that were added
21:17
this year? And then what was the Because
21:19
this year was more about return to cooking, right?
21:21
Yeah. I mean, they've always been
21:23
trying to do that. I think that's kind of the
21:24
traditional. Feed on the bone rush.
21:26
You know, cuisine is kind of like, yeah, bring it back.
21:29
Like, I mean, again, like, and I think it also it helps the
21:33
conversation that we're having right now, right?
21:35
Is, you know, is it so aesthetically pleasing that it
21:39
doesn't taste good anymore? Right.
21:40
And I think we were stretching. I mean, the twill games are
21:43
always high because it's like the newfound like love.
21:46
And it does, it looks beautiful. But I mean, again, it's just a
21:50
flavorless flower twill with water, you know, or egg or
21:53
whatever. And so and so the, the appeal of
21:57
that, you can always have an element of it, but they're
21:59
always trying to like, say, OK, even souvie cooking, like, I
22:02
mean, there were so many people that, I mean, you were just
22:04
tasting these very slow cooked, you know, mousses and, and very,
22:11
you know, soft textured meats that, you know, we're looking
22:15
beautifully. And they had multiple different
22:16
layers of whatever built inside of it.
22:19
But it's like, you know, nothing tastes better than just a grill,
22:23
more heavily roasted piece of meat right here with a perfect
22:26
crust on top of it. And it's like that's tastes
22:29
better than having a piece of poached beef.
22:32
I mean, I think we can all attest to that, no matter how
22:36
many layers of beauty. And you wonder how did they get
22:38
that marbling inside of it? It's, you know, at the end of
22:42
the day, I'd rather eat a grilled piece of steak than
22:44
having this poached, you know, lamb loin with, you know, a
22:48
farce around it, like. Yeah, well, you're right.
22:51
It's the truth. So then they're like, OK, well,
22:53
if we put a roll that's taking that away, then hopefully then
22:58
they'll try to find a new creative way.
23:00
Even though you can't grill in the competition, how do you
23:03
establish that flavor right back into the protein and their
23:06
products? Well, it's funny, you're talking
23:07
about the twill and how much and, and I'm not even talking
23:11
about the competition anymore. I'm just talking about real life
23:13
restaurants. How many restaurants are
23:15
spending so much time on the twill and less time on getting a
23:19
crust on the steaks? Those bolds aren't cheap.
23:22
Yeah, like I'll tell you what, quit.
23:23
Quit messing with the tweel and make sure the steak is cooked
23:26
right. You know, and I and I think
23:28
that's, you know, and what's great, you know, and I think a
23:31
lot of northern cuisine like Noma and stuff, even though they
23:33
do a lot of Tweel making now too, it's but in a different
23:36
form of fashion. But I think the the purest and
23:39
the natural kind of, you know, just the simplicity of a
23:44
perfectly cooked piece of saute, like spinach leaf that just
23:48
drapes over top of your piece of fish.
23:50
And you have a, you know, well, like made sauce that's, you
23:55
know, not knowing that that sauce took maybe 3 or 4 days to
23:58
make, you know, plus plus depending on what kind of
24:01
fermentation and process that you put into that sauce too.
24:04
But it's like, you know, I think simplicity came back at some
24:09
point, but it also then went quickly into another direction
24:14
of overcomplicating it, Yeah. I mean, but social media doesn't
24:17
help, no. And I think that's no social
24:20
media is completely because you want the prettiest thing out
24:25
there, right? And everything you do and
24:26
everything in life is like that's half the reason why you
24:29
make majority of your purchase. It's it's, I like to say it's
24:33
chef thirst traps. Yeah, that's what they are.
24:35
They're chef thirst traps. But but you also have to
24:38
recognize and you got to play into it too.
24:40
Yeah, but but within, within reason and balance.
24:43
And I think that's, you know, the the way the competition
24:45
works too. You're always trying to find
24:47
that balance between the aesthetics of the competition as
24:51
well as the, the flavor of the competition.
24:53
So it's you, you need there, there is a balance there, there,
24:57
there is a ratio that I think works.
24:59
And you know, we're always trying to figure out, you know,
25:03
what items need to learn more into flavor and what needs to be
25:07
more aesthetic. And then we kind of make sure
25:10
that, you know, everything kind of has its, his, its, its role
25:14
in the competition. Thinking about food trends and
25:18
flavor and all that with Bokus, but also just restaurants in
25:22
general kind of segwaying into that a little bit.
25:25
Why do you think the Nordic countries are doing so well, not
25:30
just in the, with restaurants like Noma and everything that's
25:34
coming out of Copenhagen. It's just that whole area, but
25:37
also in the competition. What, what is it that they got
25:39
going on that I, I mean, seem to catch most people by surprise
25:44
over the last few years? I mean, we get to look at it
25:47
from our perspective. It's, it's new and it's
25:50
different, right? And that's, I mean, just like
25:52
everything, you know, you see a, you know, it's like growing up
25:57
and you have a girlfriend and you see another girl walks by
25:59
that's a little prettier. You're like, oh, man, what's
26:02
that? You know?
26:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's it's the same thing
26:06
in food and restaurants, right? You're always looking for the
26:08
new pretty one, right? And it's like, what are they
26:11
doing? What are, you know, that's
26:12
different? That's, you know, I want to go
26:14
try that. I want to go do that.
26:16
And so, you know, I think, you know, the Nordic country and
26:21
Noma is really kind of blown it up and it's different.
26:23
And, you know, when it's new and it's different, it's, it's
26:27
interesting and you want to learn about it.
26:29
You want to know about, you want to know more about it, you want
26:31
to try it, you want to taste it, you want it.
26:33
Like, so I, I, I feel like, you know, it's, it's kind of fits in
26:37
that same realm of conversation because like, we can have what
26:42
we do here all the time, right? But we can't have that all the
26:45
time. So when we see it, it's much
26:47
different. But also I think they're,
26:48
they're executing, I think in terms of the competition, they,
26:54
they found a formula that worked really well, right?
26:58
And the technique and the design of what they do is, is really
27:02
beautiful. And they just kept refining it.
27:04
I think from our perspective and what we need to do, you know,
27:08
from the US side of things is, is we need to go back to like
27:12
what was successful and we need to refine that process rather
27:17
than starting fresh. I almost feel like most of the
27:20
chefs that come on, it's just like, you know, they want to put
27:22
their own stamp and approval and, and identity to it.
27:26
And I'm not saying that you can't do that.
27:27
And it's just trying to not lose focus of what was already
27:31
successful and, and kind of building upon that success.
27:35
And I think that's what, you know, these Nordic countries do.
27:38
If you look at it, it's like most of that food was built by
27:41
Rasmus and was continued to work, you know, through a lot of
27:45
Rasmus technique. And you just see it, it's now
27:49
slowly evolving into maybe the, the next generation of Denmark
27:53
and, and Norway and these other countries.
27:55
But it's like, you know, they have a, a, a, a refined touch
28:01
and this kind of feminine beauty in their food that I think, you
28:05
know, shines in the competition. Let me think, I wanted to ask
28:09
this, not necessarily regarding the competition, but regarding
28:18
some of the the way food is now, but also kind of where it comes
28:21
from. You look at chefs like Thomas or
28:24
Renee or Ferran or Bokus and then a lot of food is just
28:30
derivatives of what they've done, right.
28:32
And, and there's a lot of other chefs on that list too.
28:33
So I'm just, I'm just naming a few.
28:35
But like, people are cooking, you know, when the French
28:37
Laundry cookbook came out, a lot of people were, were doing that.
28:42
A lot of people started doing what Ferran was doing.
28:44
When Grant was doing what he was doing.
28:46
A lot of people started to do a, you know, exact copies of Linea
28:49
or cooking straight out of the Noma cookbook and put it on
28:54
their menu. And we didn't have Instagram
28:56
back then to keep people honest. But I feel like now with that,
29:02
everything starts to kind of look the same, right?
29:05
It looks like a derivative of maybe these 10 chefs.
29:08
But if you look at, you know, a cornet with some, with some
29:12
tartar in it, you know, that's, that goes to French Laundry.
29:15
It doesn't matter. You could trace it right back.
29:18
And unfortunately, I, I think now you, you don't see much
29:24
that's original, but it doesn't mean that original is not out
29:28
there percolating and bubbling up somewhere that we just
29:30
haven't seen it. And then when we see it, it,
29:33
it's hard to trace where it came from because chef's going to
29:35
copy, chef's going to copy, chef's going to copy.
29:37
And before you know it, it's like, where did that originate?
29:39
I don't know. But my question is after that
29:43
little bit of a rant, my question to you is seen book
29:47
who's because you're seeing the highest level of techniques
29:50
being in Europe during that time.
29:51
And then you're going to get at these restaurants.
29:54
What do you see percolating in the food trend that's going to
29:56
trickle into the into the kitchens and the restaurants of
30:00
the chefs that we that isn't really being talked about today,
30:03
but you kind of see it coming in the next few months or the next
30:05
few years. And that's such a hard question
30:08
to be honest with you. It's just like even, you know,
30:12
there was, I think everybody tries to anticipate some trends
30:16
and kind of like what you see. I think I think you're seeing
30:20
more, it's kind of like a two-part kind of answer to some
30:26
degree, but you definitely seeing a lot of more popular
30:31
chefs, those who may have been in the fine dining kind of step
30:37
into it. I mean even my, you know, I'm
30:39
looking at different things as well because it's a business,
30:43
right? And I think there's a focal
30:45
point on what is the next business for your restaurants
30:51
that still allows you to be creative and, and, and keep the
30:55
fine dining component of what your love and enjoy is, if
30:58
that's like where your love and joy is.
31:02
So you, you start to see a lot of that, you know, dip into more
31:06
fast casual components and styles.
31:09
But in in my mind, I think there's what I'm starting to see
31:14
is fine dining become a little bit more approachable, right?
31:20
Fine dining isn't necessarily just associated with a tasting
31:23
menu format. It's more like, how do we bring
31:27
those fine dining elements into more Ala carte menu format,
31:31
Whether it's a very sexy steakhouse or if it's like the
31:35
Carbone gentleman said, did you know Carbone?
31:39
And you know, different parts of that, which is like, you know,
31:42
the Miami version, you know, is a very much of what I'm talking
31:46
about. It's kind of like these sexy
31:50
like spaces when beautiful, you know, the same style of service
31:56
pieces and things that you would have in a fine dining restaurant
31:59
that would might be associated with the French Laundry or some
32:02
of these other places now become these beautiful kind of more
32:07
casual eyes restaurants where you feel like they're everyday
32:10
kind of eateries. When I say every day is so high
32:14
price point, but it's, it's the way that I think the way that
32:18
people wanting to eat, you know, and I think that comes to
32:21
timing, right? You know, there's 3 to 4 hour
32:24
meals are kind of being lost. I think people want to get in,
32:29
have their two 2 1/2 hours and then they want to go to the next
32:31
thing, right? Whether it's a cocktail lounge
32:34
or if it's, maybe it's another small bite that they've had on
32:37
their bucket list or maybe it's another place to have dessert.
32:40
And so I, I feel like, you know, if, if I had to say, if there's
32:45
like a trend, I think like things are starting to kind of
32:48
work themselves, at least here in the States that you can start
32:50
to see a little bit of that. But you know, from a food
32:54
perspective, that's a, that's a hard one to say.
32:57
I I can't put a finger on saying, OK, this is what the
33:02
next 5 to 10 years is going to look like from a cuisine or a
33:06
specific chef's cuisine. What about like cooking methods?
33:09
Cooking methods, I I think it's going to stay stronger the way
33:11
it is. I think it's going to be a lot
33:13
more of this, you know, I think the hearth cooking and and open
33:16
fire and but I think it's going to be, you know, a little bit
33:19
more leveled, right. I think you're seeing more
33:24
vegetables getting brought into your food, you know, and less of
33:28
the meats and proteins. I think that's always going to
33:31
be a kind of a position because I think it also helps drive down
33:38
costs, right, right. So I think from a business
33:40
perspective, as as proteins start to continue to rise, I
33:44
mean, you're going to have to find that fluff to kind of
33:47
compensate for those those rising costs.
33:50
So I think chefs are going to get more creative with the way
33:53
that they represent their vegetables.
33:54
And I think that's going to be kind of a a price position
33:58
that's gonna help them, you know, from a business
34:00
perspective. Yeah, from a business
34:02
perspective, I, I have my own opinions and I'd like, I share a
34:07
lot of my opinions. They're not all right for people
34:09
listening like I'm not. I'm not always.
34:10
Right. This is why you get those chefs
34:12
calling you up like Andre. What are you?
34:13
What are you talking? About yeah, you're hurting my
34:15
business over here, but I I agree with you.
34:19
It's like 2 1/2 hours. 2 hours seems to be like, OK, that if I
34:22
was building something out, I would say, OK, that's about
34:24
right. I think if you're getting longer
34:27
than that, you could maybe turn more tables at two hours, sure.
34:30
I think maybe 5 courses, if you're doing that, might be the
34:33
sweet spot, 5 to 6, maybe 7 because you could now get away
34:37
with fewer cooks in the kitchen. You don't need as many and maybe
34:40
lower the food cost. You have as much inventory and
34:43
then obviously a good cocktail program, a little bit louder
34:47
music, a little bit more fun. Like if I was designing a
34:49
restaurant, that's kind of where my head would be.
34:51
And of course that might change based on the next guest giving
34:53
me a good idea or the next off the record conversation.
34:56
But I, I, I do agree with everything that you said.
34:59
I think, I think the modern day attention span is different for
35:04
the, for the diners. I know when I go out to eat,
35:07
unless the conversation is very good.
35:09
I know about two courses and I'm taking out my phone and I'm
35:11
like, what's going on here? Yeah.
35:13
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, everybody's jumping on
35:16
social and even if you don't mean to, you take a picture and
35:18
all of a sudden you have like 3 more messages and then next
35:21
thing you know, you dove right back in.
35:22
Yeah. And then your mind's not
35:24
concentrated on the phone rather than, you know, and maybe that's
35:27
maybe that's the, the, the future goal is like no cell
35:30
phones inside of a specific restaurant.
35:33
Yeah. You know, kind of keep which I
35:35
think it's going to be really hard to play.
35:36
But yeah, I know there's cocktail lounges and bars, I
35:41
mean, specifically even here in Austin that require that that
35:47
that deal because I mean, it is disruptive.
35:49
I mean, you watch, I mean, you know, one of my favorite, you
35:53
know, bands Tool, you know, they they don't allow you to have
35:56
your cell phones, right? And a lot of these comedy shows
35:59
for obvious reasons, right? But but it's just like a
36:02
distraction like usually you're there to enjoy what you came out
36:07
there to enjoy, which was either the music or the food or the
36:10
person across from you. It's just like, I think
36:12
sometimes we get distracted by this extension of our bodies at
36:18
this point now, which is as known, that distracts you from
36:21
the, the experience that you you're supposed to, you know,
36:25
set out to go enjoy. How much do you think like the
36:28
theater aspect? When I say theater, I mean like
36:31
tableside presentation, shaping the truffles or here comes the
36:34
cheese geared on, Yeah, whatever, right?
36:36
How much do you think that plays a factor into the overall dining
36:39
experience? I think it's huge.
36:43
There's some future concepts that we have in the works that I
36:47
want to implement this in. And you know it, it's just, you
36:51
know, everything. I mean, you see it in clothing
36:53
and food the same way. It's like, you know what, what
36:56
we did 20 years ago is now the hot thing.
36:58
And you know, I feel like it goes on rotation every single
37:02
year, so. You know, because people haven't
37:03
seen it in 50. Years exactly.
37:05
And they're like, hey, it's new again and and there's a whole
37:08
new generation of diners that are now in their 20s and 30s
37:12
that never even know what this was right.
37:14
They were like 6 when, you know, all this table size service was
37:18
like happening. And then now they're, you know,
37:22
26 and they're like, wow, this is amazing.
37:25
It's like where was this five years ago, 10 years ago?
37:28
So, you know, I think, you know, you look at it both at that, but
37:32
then there's just like this nostalgic moment for those who
37:36
once had it and they're like, oh, look, this, I remember
37:39
getting this at this restaurant when you and I first met, you
37:42
know, you know, blah, blah, blah.
37:44
And God knows where, but it's, it's, it's, it's bringing back
37:48
memories, right? It's it's kind of that memorable
37:51
cooking that that even like Thomas, you know, was most
37:55
famous for even with his cuisine.
37:56
You know, it's it's like, you know, the same at Cornett was
38:00
like bringing back childhood memories of eating an ice cream
38:02
cone type situation. So it's like you you need to
38:06
play on those heartstrings. And I think, you know, table
38:08
size service is it's it's a theatric it's but it's still
38:12
good cooking. If it's done it if it's done.
38:14
Yeah, right. You know, Dave Barron's doing,
38:17
you know this. You know, you see a lot of those
38:20
Duck Alla press. Yeah, I love watching the video
38:23
and for no reason. Just like I'll sit there and
38:25
watch a 3 minute video of him pressing a duck after I've seen
38:28
him already do that and. It's and it's kind of a
38:31
technique that you know, you're just curious just like why, why
38:35
are you doing this? Like what do you get off of
38:37
this? And it's an educational process
38:39
along the way, you know, Caesar salads, doing tablesides, like
38:43
you get to see the ingredients that actually go into a Caesar
38:45
salad. I guarantee you, you ask 90% of
38:48
your diners and they were like, what's in the Caesar salad
38:50
dressing? And they were like, I don't
38:51
know, Parmesan chebolas, mayonnaise with powder, I mean,
38:59
is what is, you know, so I, it's there.
39:02
There's a great component of the two of those that I think come
39:05
together on that. And, you know, I think finding,
39:09
you know, using that as finding new creative ways to bring in
39:12
tableside service, I think is going to be a hot new trend too.
39:17
Because I think that that, you know, it's not just bringing a
39:20
chef, bringing out a dish and dropping and explaining, you
39:22
know, why fermentation took 28 hours or whatever it was plus
39:27
plus three days. And then it's, it's, it's more
39:30
of like, hey, we're coming out here, we're showing you that
39:33
we're cooking directly at your table, right?
39:35
It's kind of like that personalized, like personal chef
39:40
component to it where it's just like, you know, it's that VIP
39:43
moment that you have at the table.
39:44
One of the first restaurants I worked at was like, I think like
39:47
30 or 40% of the menu was all tableside.
39:50
I loved it. Yeah, because the service, like,
39:52
here's your prep. Yeah, here your eggs and your
39:54
whatever. No, it's the speed size.
39:55
I mean, think about service. I mean cooking.
39:57
I remember doing Dover souls and just like, oh, here we're going
40:00
to do the Dover soul tableside. I'm like, great, I love that
40:02
dish. You you sear out the Dover soul.
40:04
You're right. You flour, you bread it.
40:06
You pick up your sauce back in the pan.
40:08
You pour it in the. Little saucier on the side and
40:11
you just like send it and you're like, you don't have to do
40:13
anything. You don't have to break it down.
40:14
You have to worry about the perfect cut.
40:16
You don't have to worry about the plate up.
40:17
It's like you put that thing in that, that that shaping dish or
40:20
whatever it was. So today I was, I was watching
40:23
someone on Instagram cooking a Dover sole and, and again, it's
40:27
funny that you bring this up and we're talking about this because
40:29
I probably watched, I found I was sipping my coffee before we
40:31
recorded and I found myself watching that Dover soul video
40:36
like 5 times for no reason. I just, I was watching then it'd
40:39
loop again, I'd watch it again. I was like, I just enjoyed
40:41
watching it and then like, that's what.
40:44
I meant you probably should talk to it a little bit too.
40:45
No, no, I I did it. It was done well.
40:47
I was like, man, I did it made me want to go buy a Dover soul
40:50
because I missed that like the simple, it's good.
40:52
Like I I no, no bells and whistles.
40:54
No, you know, no, no bullshit on the plate.
40:59
I love. It's just it's it's, but seeing
41:02
the entire again, it's this wow factor.
41:05
It's like getting a tomahawk chop, you know what I mean?
41:07
Or a bone in rib eye. It's like there's just something
41:10
grand about getting it whole and it feels like you're getting
41:14
more value for the price point that you're spending on it.
41:18
But then it's it's a conversation piece.
41:21
It's a shareable item that the table, right, You're breaking
41:24
bread and kind of situation with, you know, the guests at
41:27
the table. You can even like for us, like I
41:30
love the the way we're like you carve it and you're serving each
41:33
other, right? It's interaction.
41:34
It brings things away from this and bring it and brings it back
41:38
into this conversation piece at the table and enjoying company
41:42
right. And I think that's, you know,
41:44
that table size service stops that and brings that that
41:47
conversation piece back together again.
41:49
I had. Junior on a couple of episodes
41:50
ago, he was talking about, you know, he's opening Nikon Juniors
41:55
in Chicago, and he was talking about he's doing a little ice
41:57
cream cone with ice cream. Yeah.
41:59
And I was like, when was the last time you saw an ice cream
42:02
cone with ice cream? Yeah, I thought it was cool.
42:04
I was like, you know, that feels new because sometimes I feel
42:07
like we, we we copy, we copy, we copy, we copy.
42:10
And then all of a sudden it's like if we served ice cream cone
42:14
with an ice cream or a Dover sole or a Caesar salad table,
42:17
it'd feel new. Yeah, because we haven't done it
42:19
in so long. That's it.
42:20
But it's it's, you know, 100% agree.
42:24
It's just, and and it's the right amount too, because every
42:27
time I see those damn ice cream cones are like this big and
42:29
like, there's no way I'm going to be able to eat all that.
42:32
So, yeah, I think getting like a little bit of something like
42:35
that. And that's still in that that
42:37
beautiful form that still brings you back to this memories as a
42:40
child. I mean those, those will never
42:42
die. Yeah, I want to talk about
42:44
Prelude, because congratulations on Prelude.
42:47
How long has it been open now? Almost a year so.
42:50
It's probably the most beautiful bar in in all of Austin.
42:53
For people that don't know, if you haven't gone, you should go
42:55
to prelude. It's my favorite place.
42:56
I love. I probably need to go like today
42:59
or something, but it's great outdoor area, The art, yeah, the
43:04
setting, the different floors. I I honestly, can I tell people
43:10
a story? Sure, because you sent me a text
43:12
one day and I think it was maybe it was Lauren's birthday.
43:16
And I said, oh, I can't go. You know, I had something going
43:19
on. I couldn't go to to her
43:21
birthday. And then you're like, come, come
43:23
meet me at the bar. And I was like, what bar are you
43:25
talking about? I didn't know what you were
43:26
talking about. You sent me a photo and you're
43:28
like, meet me here. I was like, what is this?
43:30
Is this like I thought it was your new house.
43:32
I was like, did you move? Is this your new?
43:33
House. I could live there.
43:34
Yeah, beautiful, right? And you're like, no, come see
43:37
it. You'll, you'll, you'll
43:38
understand when you get here. And I remember I got there and I
43:40
was like, holy shit. Like, it is beautiful.
43:44
The amount of art that's in there, the different floors, the
43:46
different rooms. It is the coolest.
43:51
Honestly, it's probably the coolest space in Austin.
43:53
That's probably the cool, you know, one of the coolest spots
43:55
in in the country. I'm just trying to think who's
43:57
cooler. And I can't think of anyone
43:59
right away, but it's stunning. Yeah.
44:00
But how did that come to be? Yeah, it was.
44:02
So I mean, just like everything, you know, when we moved down
44:05
here to Austin, I was always trying to find a space or a
44:10
building that across some history of Austin that had a
44:14
connection to old Austin and it so that we can kind of bring our
44:20
new approach to the city, right? And that evolutionary process.
44:24
But it's just Austin doesn't have a ton of old spaces, right?
44:29
Or they're in these homes that are historically landmarked and,
44:34
and, or that are owned by some sort of lawyer firm that's never
44:37
going to go anywhere. Or they're too big and they're
44:41
making them into some sort of office space, right?
44:44
Something that's, you know, more money than a typical restaurant
44:48
would kind of make. So, you know, for years, you
44:52
know, we were looking at a property just didn't work out.
44:55
There was some budget situations, but OK, we move on
44:59
to the next location and it's like, OK, well, maybe we'll do
45:02
something a little bit more casual and we'll find a building
45:04
downtown that we can kind of pop into.
45:07
Maybe it's not the long term like fine dining dream that I
45:10
want to. But, you know, let's just get
45:12
the ball rolling. And then the pandemic happened
45:15
and then we're like, shit, OK, I'll put a pause on this and see
45:18
what happens. And then, you know, thankfully
45:20
so because if we would have opened up a restaurant at that
45:22
time, we probably would have just shut it down anyway.
45:24
And I had a restart and then through the process of
45:27
conversations with different people, came across my current
45:30
partner now who does a lot of real estate.
45:34
And, you know, this house was on the property.
45:37
And we kind of looked at at the beginning and the whole back
45:40
lawn wasn't done. It was like a gravel pit.
45:42
Didn't really understand like the how much of the property was
45:47
part of the house and not, you know, and you know, they were
45:51
trying to figure out with another tenant which was the
45:56
here nor there group they were looking at.
45:58
They did a pop up there like 3 years ago.
46:00
And so the bar was already established in the house.
46:03
They already did the ground floor, just the first floor and
46:07
I went in there with my partner at the time and, and, you know,
46:11
we were like, I love this. This is great.
46:13
It's like, well, we want to bring in some sort of food
46:15
component, you know, like, can you walk the space and try to
46:17
figure out where this kitchen and things are going to work?
46:19
I'm like, man, this is not like you're going to eat up too much
46:22
of the space. You're not going to have room
46:23
for a kitchen and you're not going to have room for, you
46:26
know, the bar and all these other things.
46:28
Like I, I don't know what to tell you.
46:30
Like this is this is the spaces. This house is a little
46:32
complicated for that, not knowing about the back lawn.
46:36
So then David went through and then my partner's name, you
46:39
know, continue to build out the space and did this whole back
46:43
lawn and he goes and we so we started looking at another
46:46
location, that town, and it didn't really work out.
46:49
He goes, we'll come back to the house, just come back and look
46:51
at it because the here and there guys dropped it and they went to
46:54
go do something in Houston. And so we'll walk back to the
46:59
space and this whole back lawn is built out.
47:01
And I'm like, what is this? I was like, I didn't know this
47:04
existed with the house. And he goes, Oh yeah, no, this
47:07
the whole back home. We filled it all in.
47:09
And I'm like, David, this is amazing.
47:13
I was like, what do I need to do to take this?
47:17
Because then the vision started to come through.
47:19
I, you know, I, you know, instead of the kitchen being
47:22
inside the house, we wanted extended off the back end.
47:24
And now I've seen this real estate that we could play off of
47:28
the end with this, this garden as quote UN quote, the garden as
47:31
we refer to or the back lawn. You know, that's where we where
47:37
I saw the kitchen being. And I was like, let me take this
47:40
over and we'll continue to build it out was continue to evolve it
47:44
into our kind of brand. And this could be the prelude to
47:47
what we want to do down the road.
47:48
And that's where the name came from.
47:50
And that's kind of the idea of the this first iteration of the
47:53
project. And we, I've always wanted to
47:56
have a cocktail bar, not for the sake of just to get drunk, but
48:00
just like a place to go, but to go to enjoy, like a good classy
48:05
cocktail. Like when you think about the
48:07
city, most places you either have to go to a hotel, right?
48:10
Or you have to go to some sort of like Speakeasy that has some,
48:13
you know, trick to the trade that you have to get in on,
48:16
right. And I was like, can you just get
48:18
a classy space where you know, you want to go and enjoy and
48:23
have one or two cocktails and a couple small bites?
48:25
Like there's just nothing really like that.
48:27
And so that that was what I wanted to build there.
48:32
And we continue to want that prelude to to exist post once we
48:36
actually get the kitchen up and operational.
48:39
But yeah, I mean. The space is amazing, Yeah, the
48:41
art in there is incredible. What's the what's the back story
48:44
about South? And for people that are
48:45
listening, I'll put up images. If they're watching on YouTube
48:48
and Spotify, they could see some of the images of.
48:49
The art, yeah, well, we were. We were trying to figure out,
48:52
you know, we brought a lot of nice furniture in and we didn't
48:55
use any designers or anything. So my wife and my partner's
48:58
wife, they kind of did everything inside which is
49:01
great. I mean you know we did it
49:03
quickly too and we took over the space in 2024 and December or
49:08
December of 2023. We started the process in
49:11
January. We got it up and operational by
49:13
May. And so it was very quick in
49:17
terms of the process that we did it.
49:18
But I mean, that was the goal, right?
49:19
Just to get it up and operational and the first phase
49:22
that we wanted it and then let that and then continue to work
49:26
out the architectural design the second phase.
49:30
And while we kind of did this first phase, but yeah, so we
49:34
were trying to figure out, OK, well, we need to have some art
49:37
in here. We need something on the walls
49:38
instead of getting a bunch of random stuff off of Etsy, which
49:41
just didn't really fit the vibe or match the space.
49:45
And we just get like this splatter pain.
49:46
Then we're like, well, maybe we should just build to do our own
49:48
art pieces. I was like, no, I'm not that
49:50
good and I don't have time for this.
49:52
And so we, we were walking, we went to an event at the West
49:56
Chelsea Art Museum downtown and this modern Art Museum.
50:00
And that's my type of art. I love, you know, the
50:04
combination of St. arts and just as like kind of modern approach.
50:07
And, you know, we started having conversations.
50:09
We just kind of opened the conversation of like, Hey, do
50:12
you guys do collabs? And, and, you know, we'd be very
50:16
interested in having you guys in if we could put some of these
50:19
art pieces up and then, you know, it could be like a sale to
50:22
for those guests that are coming in.
50:23
I mean, we're hoping that that might be the type of demographic
50:26
that, you know, maybe interested in it, but also just kind of
50:30
like it would work really well within the space.
50:32
Give us that modern kind of like edginess and technique within a
50:36
house that's like was built back in 1889.
50:39
So we wanted to kind of tell the story of who we were and who
50:43
where we were going within the space and find something that's
50:47
fun, right. And I feel like that modern art
50:49
approach. So I mean, we had some
50:51
brainwashes in there, you know, Risk from LA, which is a great
50:55
combination. You know, we have a
50:56
photographer, Trox, who's good friends with him and both
51:00
fantastic artists and it's just really great people.
51:03
And you know, we had Gary James McQueen, which is the nephew of
51:07
Alexander McQueen. He's he's just some of these up
51:11
and coming modern artists that are really breaking away.
51:14
But he did their first American show showing here in Austin, TX.
51:20
And you know, we did the party for him at, at the at the house.
51:24
And you know, we have a beautiful Simon Berger, which is
51:27
like this cracked glass component and, and the foyer
51:29
there. And you know, it's just we, we,
51:32
we kind of and even some some local artists that come through.
51:38
It's always on rotation, right. And so we're, we're always kind
51:42
of find different pieces and start to tell a story through
51:44
the process. So we're working with the, you
51:48
know, the the West Chelsea Art Museum down there to kind of
51:52
collaborate with things and WCC. Yeah, no, it's great.
51:55
I mean, they, they do fantastic, you know, work with us.
51:58
And, you know, there's plenty of other things that are going to
52:01
come down in the pipeline where we're going to work collectively
52:03
on doing different shows at the at the house as well as with
52:07
them there on site. So we're excited.
52:11
So just kind of going into advice because you've given me
52:17
some really good advice. So people that people that may
52:19
not know, you've helped me out tremendously on two different
52:22
occasions. Just two just, well, I mean two
52:25
that I've two that I've talked about.
52:27
A lot 2 two is more than I thought you were going to say.
52:29
A lot of little ones, maybe ones.
52:31
No, no, two big ones. So the first one was when I was
52:35
opening up the Fairmont Austin hotel.
52:36
It's 1000 room hotel and I wanted to run it very strict.
52:40
You had just one Bokus and we were having a conversation and I
52:44
remember asking, I wrote, I wrote about this in my culinary
52:46
leadership fundamentals book. There's a, there's a section
52:48
that I wrote, I don't know if I called you out by name in the
52:50
book, but I wrote about this conversation.
52:52
I said, how do I scale the intensity and professionalism
52:58
and the attention to detail to 300 people?
53:03
Because it seems like it's one thing to tell one person, but
53:08
300 how do I get them all to, to drink the Kool-aid?
53:11
Exactly. And you gave me the best advice.
53:13
And I wrote about this in the book.
53:15
And you said you don't need to convince everyone, just convince
53:17
your four or five direct reports.
53:19
They convinced their four or five.
53:21
And then it scales that way. As long as you could convince
53:23
the the ones that directly report to you and teach them how
53:26
to scale it, it makes it easy. So don't think of it.
53:28
And I was like, yeah, that's brilliant.
53:30
And so that's what I did and it worked.
53:32
And I would say it was a, it was a very tight, well, well run
53:37
machine. That was some of the best advice
53:39
you've ever given me. The second piece of advice that
53:43
you gave me was when I was starting Chef's PSA and I was
53:46
kind of like going into at the, at the beginning phases of it.
53:52
We were having a conversation and he said why don't you just
53:54
film your stupid beard and just like talking shit and just see
53:57
what happens. It's a great beard.
53:59
Thank you. And I was like, yeah, I should.
54:01
And you're like, yeah, just do it.
54:02
Just say some stupid shit, put on the Internet and see what
54:04
happens, see where it goes. And so I did.
54:06
And I remember the very first video that I did, and I'll clip
54:11
it in here. Maybe maybe I'll clip it in here
54:13
where I'm driving and I'm talking shit.
54:16
I think I'm talking about I, I tried to find like the most
54:20
controversial thing I could say at that time.
54:22
And it was Renee had just put out his vegetables book.
54:25
He had a reindeer peanut salad. And I said, you know, that's
54:28
dangerous. Did.
54:29
You ever eat that, by the way? No, you need to go and figure
54:32
out how to get that dish. No, I'm not going to ever eat
54:34
it, but I but I said on the videos, like, you know, Renee,
54:38
take that out of your book because, you know, every sous
54:40
chef across the country is going to be putting reindeer penis
54:43
salad on the menu. And I made it and I sent you the
54:45
videos. Like should what do you think
54:46
You like? Yeah, do it, post it.
54:49
And that is kind of what led to these other things with chefs.
54:52
We say it led to. It was like I was already doing
54:54
it, but like I just needed someone to like, yeah, do it.
54:58
Just just go for it. So thank you for that.
55:00
People that don't know, like that was the beginning of the
55:03
early cringe videos that I was doing.
55:04
Like thanks to Matt Peters, if it wasn't, if it wasn't for you
55:07
telling me to put myself out there and say something stupid,
55:10
I probably wouldn't have. So now.
55:11
You always get to break the ice in some form of fashion, but no
55:15
pleasure. Yeah.
55:16
But since you gave me such good advice, if there was young cooks
55:20
listening and you said, look, start doing these things to
55:23
become a better cook in the kitchen, what are some things
55:26
that that that would help fix some of the bad habits that are
55:31
out there? I think yes, Sir, with the
55:34
mindset, you know, I think for so much of it, you know, the
55:40
chefs, they, they look at the social component of it and they
55:44
want to, you know, work on these techniques that are kind of
55:48
beautiful. And, you know, it's like you
55:51
need to understand what the business is and that it's a lot
55:54
of hard work. And I think if you're devoted to
55:57
the hard work and you're committed mentally to the hard
56:00
work, then you're going to get there, right?
56:03
And all the little techniques and the things are going to come
56:05
along the way. But it's just like, I think what
56:07
ends up happening is, you know, there's a loss of focus where I
56:12
know you can show up for six or eight hours and somehow you're
56:16
going to come out to be a Top Chef wondering.
56:19
It's like, yeah, you kind of have to mentally prepare
56:22
yourself that there's going to be a long road and it's going to
56:25
be a lot of work, no matter whether it's, if you say that's
56:28
an old way of looking at things. It's like, I, I don't believe in
56:32
that. I think anything in life comes
56:34
with sacrifice and it comes with a lot of hard work.
56:37
And you got to prepare yourself mentally for that if that's
56:41
truly what you want to do. You know what I mean?
56:43
If you truly want to be some of the best of the best, and then
56:47
you have to mentally prepare yourself that.
56:49
Just like I'm willing to work as long and as hard as I need to to
56:53
to get to that part. And I think that's, you know,
56:55
something to kind of keep in mind throughout the process.
56:59
Something that for people listening, so for people that
57:02
tell you greatness and success comes through hard work.
57:06
If they're usually successful people that are saying that, but
57:10
the people that tell you it, it's not about working hard and
57:13
it's not about, you know, there's other ways to achieve
57:16
greatness. I promise you the people that
57:18
they're not great, like they haven't accomplished it.
57:21
Anyone that's accomplished anything meaningful in their
57:23
life or their career, they usually you don't get lucky.
57:27
And if you do get lucky, it luck doesn't last long.
57:29
And a lot of people get lucky. I mean, it's like, and luck
57:32
doesn't, there's always a little bit of luck in everything,
57:36
right? No matter, it's like you need a
57:37
little bit of luck to, to, to, to kind of breakthrough
57:41
eventually, right? But it's a psych.
57:43
But you have to find, you know, some that luck is through that
57:47
hard work. And and so you're not going to
57:49
find that luck unless you put in the hard work to get to that
57:52
point and kind of get it to the point where you need to be.
57:55
And say the harder I work, the luckier I get.
57:57
Yeah, yeah, right. And I love that saying is in in
58:01
and it's still to this day. It's just like, I mean, I could
58:03
sit back. I you know, you know, my
58:05
timeline is like, yeah, I've accomplished a lot, but I
58:08
haven't accomplished what I wanted yet.
58:10
And but The thing is, it's like I could continue to say, well,
58:13
it's like I did all this in the past.
58:15
You say, why am I not where I need to be today?
58:17
It's just like, no, you got to continue to fight for that,
58:20
right? And, and even, and I'm, you
58:22
know, evident story of that because it's like, you know, I,
58:25
I wish that things were just handed to me be based off of
58:28
what I started, but it's not that way.
58:29
You have to continue to work at it.
58:31
You have to continue to find ways.
58:32
You got to continue to learn. You got to continue to fight
58:34
through some of the hard times and, you know, eventually, you
58:37
know, prelude, the house was kind of like a lucky situation
58:40
kind of fell on my lap. So it's just like that a lot.
58:42
All that hard work is now finally starting to kind of pay
58:45
off a little bit. And so, you know, there's still
58:47
a lot more hard work to be done because still got to build a
58:50
profitable business. But you know, there's, you know
58:54
it just it just keep grinding. Well, man, I feel like I could.
58:59
I had so many more questions. We could probably keep talking,
59:01
but for people that are listening and they want to
59:04
continue to follow you and your story and prelude, where can
59:07
people find you? Social media.
59:10
Yeah, social media. Chef Matt Peters as well as, you
59:14
know, visit us on Prelude Dash austin.com.
59:18
If you're ever in Austin, stop by.
59:20
Awesome. Thanks for coming on man.
59:21
Appreciate it. Most requested guest ever.
59:24
We'll do this again. I'll wrap the Part 2 here.
59:26
Yeah, yeah. Well, I hope you enjoyed the
59:28
show. You know what to do And make
59:29
sure you leave five stars if you're listening on Spotify or
59:31
anywhere really. If you're watching on YouTube,
59:33
hit the like and subscribe button.
59:34
I'd completely revamped the chef's PSA store,
59:37
shop.chefspsa.com. My team added a ton of new
59:41
items. I advise you to go check it out.
59:43
Just peruse, look around, maybe you see something nice that you
59:46
like. Keep supporting the show.
59:48
Go to chefspsa.com You get books, obviously the merch,
59:51
early access to episodes on sub stack and Spotify for premium
59:55
members. We'll see you next week.
59:57
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heat enough the session. Listen close classes in sex.