Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Destiny of the Daleks (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Destiny of the Daleks (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:36
  Hello and welcome to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, the
• 0:40
  Doctor Who commentary. My name is Paul Arthur and
• 0:43
  errors of the past will be rectified.
• 0:45
  With me is Joe Ford, your podcast master.
• 0:48
  And we're here to talk about Destiny, the Daleks, buffery.
• 0:52
  Errors of the past? What errors are you talking
• 0:55
  about? That's just a line of dialogue,
• 0:57
  and I just picked it out because I thought it was kind of kind of
• 1:00
  funny. I thought I was seeing a peek
• 1:02
  into a, yeah, shady criminal past that you might have had
• 1:06
  once. Oh.
• 1:07
  Yeah, well, I mean, I've kept it hidden and yeah, who knows what
• 1:15
  I might. Ex war criminal are you created
• 1:18
  a race of Tim plated pepper pots to destroy the universe?
• 1:23
  It's it's Von Arthur is the the actual.
• 1:28
  So you are Tavros, is that right?
• 1:31
  Yes, I am Deb Ross and you can claim your 5 lbs Yeah, okay.
• 1:36
  Now we know where it's been hiding all this time.
• 1:40
  Oh, Rusty Davis was right. He does have legs now.
• 1:43
  Exactly. He can't be in a chair anymore.
• 1:45
  Yeah. Bad taste, Joe, Bad taste.
• 1:47
  Sorry. Sorry.
• 1:48
  Yeah, sorry guys. I mean, I talking about Dave
• 1:51
  Ross. So exciting, that cliffhanger.
• 1:53
  Oh, amazing. Yeah.
• 1:55
  Yeah, completely iconic and and just so exciting as a kid to
• 1:59
  like. And as you say, I don't, I don't
• 2:00
  necessarily know how I knew who DeVos was as a job.
• 2:04
  I wasn't around for Genesis. The trouble is, you know, it's
• 2:07
  sort of, you know, the way his hand sort of limply sort of
• 2:11
  waving like that. The amount of old men that have
• 2:14
  waved at me across a bar like that is, it is a bit of a look.
• 2:18
  How they cover the cobwebs most of the time.
• 2:21
  I'll don't feel no scene action for a while, no.
• 2:25
  Well, that makes two of us. Well, there's dramatic stuff
• 2:28
  afoot, you know, in Part 3. Indeed, Yes, there is a lot of
• 2:33
  pushing Davros around the corridors.
• 2:36
  Yeah, yeah, a bit of a Mexican standoff with the Daleks.
• 2:40
  Also as well, I want to say 2 words now.
• 2:43
  I think it has a really unusual but very effective cliffhanger.
• 2:48
  I think all the cliffhangers are great in this story.
• 2:50
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:52
  Well, we'll get to that when we when we get to it.
• 2:54
  But yeah, I think I agree. Well, shall I count as in then?
• 2:59
  Indeed. Hang on, bear with me.
• 3:00
  Are you ready? IPad's gone to sleep.
• 3:02
  Is your license fixed? Yes I I have got ATV license I
• 3:07
  will always support the BBC. Are you sure you've just
• 3:10
  admitted you're a criminal? All right.
• 3:13
  I might be criminal but I'm very civic minded and I will always
• 3:16
  always apply for my. TV.
• 3:18
  I suggest that about the license people.
• 3:20
  Oh my God, they're knocking on your door already?
• 3:21
  Jesus Christ, they've got a fine note for 200 lbs.
• 3:27
  Jesus, they're everywhere. I've got spies everywhere.
• 3:30
  Yeah, you really, you know, you shouldn't be watching the BBC if
• 3:33
  you don't have a license. Do you know?
• 3:35
  I don't even know if you knew this.
• 3:37
  Yeah, but actually one of the hamster contributors.
• 3:39
  I shan't name him in fear of him getting hate mail.
• 3:43
  Is a a member of the Inland Revenue?
• 3:46
  Oh, if anyone ever confesses any indiscretions on this thing,
• 3:51
  he's there listening. No way.
• 3:53
  OK, well I'll I'll have to be careful of.
• 3:55
  You taxes this month, have you, Paul?
• 3:57
  Ways always, I mean. What is?
• 4:00
  Going to be something going on by criminal past Joe, honestly.
• 4:04
  You went always, always like you sounded very panicked there.
• 4:10
  You know, this might be a few things I haven't haven't
• 4:13
  declared but. All those materials you needed
• 4:16
  to make those Daleks, You sure you paid all your taxes on
• 4:19
  those? Yes, indeed.
• 4:20
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 4:21
  OK, all right. And the genetic experimentation
• 4:24
  equipment turn the people into mutants.
• 4:28
  Well, that's yes, I mean there's, I mean that's tax free
• 4:31
  I think, I don't think there's any, any VAT on that stuff
• 4:34
  because you know it's those are kind of essentials Joe,
• 4:38
  everybody has that stuff. Really.
• 4:40
  How interesting. I just happened to have an
• 4:42
  invoice here. I believe I can hear David
• 4:47
  Gillespie, Pat knocking on your door.
• 4:49
  Oh, I've just named him. Oh, you vote with him?
• 4:53
  You're quick. It's going so free Quick.
• 4:57
  Who's counting us in? I've forgotten.
• 4:59
  Oh well, I did the intro, so is. It Oh, it's me.
• 5:02
  It's me. All right.
• 5:03
  OK. Jesus Christ, man.
• 5:06
  How did we get there? I mean, that was just bonkers.
• 5:09
  321 we go. What have you done, Joe?
• 5:16
  Honestly. So many people are sensible on
• 5:19
  podcast, you know, it's just no fun at all.
• 5:22
  Yet. Well I mean you don't fill 1000
• 5:23
  episodes by being dry and boring these.
• 5:27
  Well, I'll leave that to the. Reviews.
• 5:31
  You know I've got a review the other day, right?
• 5:34
  Someone left a Spotify review. You ready for this and they'd
• 5:38
  seen I'd advertise strictly come hamster starring so and so so
• 5:41
  and so and so and so and so and so yeah the review went I press
• 5:46
  play on this so you've. You've paused there, mate.
• 5:49
  It's frozen. Sorry you froze there.
• 5:52
  Oh, have I frozen? Have I come back to life?
• 5:54
  Oh, you have? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:56
  Oh, OK. Well, that's fine.
• 5:57
  Don't keep. Did you stop the recording?
• 6:00
  I I just paused on the episode, I've got a handle.
• 6:03
  On the screen. Let's go back to the start the
• 6:05
  episode. God, I can't lose it again.
• 6:07
  OK, you know. In 321 Take Two, you don't know
• 6:17
  this, but we've already started the episode once already.
• 6:19
  You wait. A little pause there.
• 6:21
  Don't you worry, what was I talking about?
• 6:24
  You were going to reveal your secret master plan to take over.
• 6:30
  Of course I was. I don't know.
• 6:32
  I know. Well, the plan is this.
• 6:36
  The plan is this. No, I'm just spamping now.
• 6:39
  Oh, I was talking about that review, wasn't I?
• 6:41
  Oh, yes, yes, yes, he. Said he said strictly come
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  hamster starring all these fabulous people.
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  But of course, I didn't put myself because I'm on all of
• 6:49
  them. And the review just went, I put
• 6:51
  on this episode of Strictly Come Hamster because I wanted to hear
• 6:55
  so and so so and so and so and so.
• 6:57
  There was no mention of Joe Ford being on this and I wouldn't
• 7:01
  have pressed play. And I was like, oh, what a
• 7:04
  bitch. You know when everyone.
• 7:07
  Why the hell would Joe Ford not be on crazy?
• 7:13
  Oh, look at the state of him covered in cobwebs, do you know?
• 7:21
  Do you think David Goodison has a bit of trouble getting about
• 7:24
  in that? Way.
• 7:25
  Yeah, I think he does. He's yeah, he's trying to not to
• 7:29
  bash him. He seems to lean quite a lot to
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  the left on on a few shots as he's sort of rubbling off.
• 7:34
  Yeah, he's having a hell of a time.
• 7:36
  Most men do lean to the left in my experience, you know.
• 7:39
  Well, you'd have to be big enough to be able to lean one
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  way if you've never done it, but.
• 7:43
  I don't think we can say that about that for us.
• 7:45
  Good grief. I mean, it's, I mean this now.
• 7:48
  I'm sorry, but pushing him around like that's as bad as
• 7:52
  Peter Capaldi shoving Davros out of his chair in that super well,
• 7:56
  it's you shouldn't really. Well, I get OK, I guess, I guess
• 8:02
  I don't know if that I think that's kind of funds the wrong
• 8:06
  word, but it's, I don't know, it's kind of the what I actually
• 8:12
  think this works better than say the next episode, because the
• 8:15
  next episode you get a lot more of Goodison talking, whereas
• 8:18
  here he's just been wheeled around and I think that's
• 8:20
  slightly more preferable. I think I already mentioned I
• 8:22
  don't like his performance that much.
• 8:24
  It's it's the fact that they're running around with comedy music
• 8:27
  now, sort of it. Doesn't look dumbly going, yeah,
• 8:32
  yeah. And in a story where there's
• 8:33
  hardly any music whatsoever. So it is a bit weird, I'll give
• 8:36
  you that. And.
• 8:37
  Not much comedy, you know, Really.
• 8:40
  But but there is a bit of tension here.
• 8:42
  They are being chased by the Daleks and and they end up in a
• 8:45
  in a dead end. So I don't know.
• 8:46
  I I think it kind of kind of works as a kind of exciting
• 8:50
  chase do. You know, if they're going to
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  quite a lick, those Daleks aren't.
• 8:53
  They Yeah, yeah. I I think my only issue is is
• 8:57
  when Dave Ross clearly can move in that wheelchair, taken away
• 9:02
  that agency in a comedy scene. I'm just giving it modernise.
• 9:07
  I think if you're a child watching this, you'd go what
• 9:10
  jolly from? I mean, I like the fact he tells
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  Dave Ross to shut up, doesn't he?
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  When he's when he's pushing him around.
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  So, you know, stuff like that, I think.
• 9:17
  I think, yeah, you're right. I don't know if it's necessarily
• 9:20
  brilliant. And you are right, I don't know.
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  I didn't know if we were going to dive into the that whole we
• 9:27
  talked about RTD 2 and the and the destination scar row and the
• 9:32
  Davos. If you have an opinion, I want
• 9:34
  to hear it. I don't know if I do, I'm kind
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  of in two minds. I can see why you would want to
• 9:40
  move Davros on beyond this. I don't think of it as him being
• 9:47
  in a wheelchair. I think you definitely I mean,
• 9:50
  you'd have to look at it as being part of that trope of the
• 9:54
  the crippled, the disfigured villain, right.
• 9:57
  You know, that is a is a not a trope in in in our in our
• 10:01
  stories, not in our literature. And he he is part of that, but
• 10:05
  I've never really seen I've seen it as him being wheelchair
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  bound. I just think of it as a kind of
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  cool half Dalek, right? That's just cool.
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  But also as well, that's how he's always looked.
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  So reimagining him as a person, well, that's visually, that's
• 10:22
  just not that for us anymore. Yeah, you're right.
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  And I think that the problem with I mean I don't think
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  there's a problem with criticizing the Dave Ross and
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  the appearance of Dave Ross. Perhaps what is an issue is
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  using him again, because if he is problematic, then why bother
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  using him at all? Because you know, and as you
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  say, if you if you if you are going to have him be not in a
• 10:44
  wheelchair and not mutated, then is Yeah, you're right.
• 10:48
  Is it Davos anymore? No, it's.
• 10:51
  In the same brief, like, do you remember when Nabil Shaban read
• 10:55
  the script of Seal and they were like, yeah, you're going to be
• 10:59
  obviously not an able bodied monster, but you're going to be
• 11:02
  a loathsome capitalist monster and Nabil Shaban's like bring it
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  on. You know.
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  So I mean, I, I think, I think it's an offence sometimes being
• 11:14
  taken by people that aren't the people that they think are being
• 11:19
  offended. Yeah, sure.
• 11:21
  Yeah, yeah. And that's always a a problem.
• 11:24
  I'm all for Doctor Who being progressive and all for it to,
• 11:29
  you know, like pushing and being a kind of vehicle for that
• 11:33
  progression in society. You know, it has a place where
• 11:36
  he can push things forwards and and and be more positive for
• 11:41
  everybody. But yeah.
• 11:46
  Though in the same we've come way away from destiny now, but I
• 11:50
  think like having Shirley Bingham in the new series, you
• 11:54
  know, the fabulous wheelchair bound.
• 11:57
  I mean, not the Rockets, not the flaming tracks like Hail, but
• 12:01
  having, you know, wheelchair bound character, smart, savvy,
• 12:05
  sassy, intelligent, great. What a great, brilliant idea.
• 12:11
  Give her something to do. I mean, she's barely in it.
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  Yeah, yeah, you know, she. And everyone else is running
• 12:17
  around on 2 legs and she's got nothing to do.
• 12:20
  Yeah, yeah. And when they did give her
• 12:22
  something to do at the end of the last season, it's kind of a
• 12:25
  weird subplot where. Don't get me started.
• 12:29
  What was it, the disabled association takes on gold or
• 12:35
  something? It's like, oh, there's other
• 12:38
  ways of doing messaging. I mean, don't get me started on
• 12:42
  homo Aqua, all that gay water that's going around at the
• 12:45
  moment. Oh yeah, definitely.
• 12:50
  Definitely, Yeah. And here we go.
• 12:54
  You can see. Have you ever had any form of
• 12:57
  STD in your life Paul? Well, that would be telling.
• 13:01
  Well, I. Just want to say like that.
• 13:02
  Do you see Davros's lips there? Oh yes.
• 13:05
  Crusty lips. You know, it's like a sort of
• 13:09
  really horribly burnt brownie. Christmas pudding doesn't.
• 13:13
  He you can see here, I mean we had the great Cliff hanger where
• 13:17
  he did it looks fantastic. But here where you can see he
• 13:20
  got big old close up of his face and you can see him talking and
• 13:23
  you can see the limitations of the mask, what they've had to do
• 13:26
  to fix the mouth and the fact it doesn't fit.
• 13:30
  Like if you watch Genesis and it feels like that's a real skin.
• 13:34
  It feels like it. Isn't it?
• 13:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It works so beautifully in
• 13:39
  Genesis and there it just looks. And the the makeup is so good in
• 13:43
  Genesis that they actually wear that's makeup.
• 13:46
  It looks like cheekbones that have sunken in, you know?
• 13:49
  It's genuinely his face, isn't it?
• 13:50
  It's genuinely he feels like it's a real what you're seeing
• 13:53
  there. It's not prosthetics.
• 13:54
  It really feels like that is what that person looks like
• 13:57
  We're. Michael Wisher might have been a
• 13:58
  complete lunatic that rehearsed with a paper bag on his head,
• 14:02
  right? But he he embodied that role in
• 14:05
  a way that I just don't think David Goodson's just doing a bit
• 14:09
  of acting, whereas Michael Wisher became Davros.
• 14:13
  Yeah, absolutely. Interestingly, I think when
• 14:16
  Terry Malloy comes in, I think he struggles a bit in
• 14:20
  Resurrection. There's good moments, but it's
• 14:22
  not until Revelation where he's having fun with the part and
• 14:26
  being charming and he finds a whole new.
• 14:30
  Yeah, he just find a way into it, doesn't he?
• 14:34
  But he's a he's a better vocal. Maloy gives a far better vocal
• 14:37
  performance I think. Well, yeah, what does David
• 14:40
  Goodson say? Where are my colleagues?
• 14:43
  What's going on? But the actual in terms of
• 14:48
  plotting the dramatic scenario of the Doctor holding Davros
• 14:54
  captive whilst the Daleks murder a load of people, that's that's
• 14:58
  a good idea, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:02
  I just, I just don't think the extras should be quite as amused
• 15:05
  whilst they're being killed. So I don't know why they're
• 15:08
  laughing or they're smiling, but there there is a reason why they
• 15:10
  don't they kind of die in that kind of crap way.
• 15:13
  And it's that technical limitation of the the effect.
• 15:17
  So like for the first time in this story, you actually,
• 15:19
  instead of the whole screen being negative, the whole screen
• 15:22
  going kind of inverted black and white when the Daleks uses Death
• 15:26
  Ray. Well, sorry, my Mike just
• 15:28
  disappeared there. So excited.
• 15:30
  I got really annoyed. I was just sticking it in
• 15:34
  wildly, right? So for the first time in this
• 15:36
  story, what you've got is under an effect around the the
• 15:39
  individual, right? So in order to do that, they
• 15:41
  have to stand pretty still. Ah, that's why they sort of
• 15:43
  pause. And they're like, and then they
• 15:45
  just kind of like very. Very slowly, yeah.
• 15:48
  So that kind of yeah. But but you're right, it's it's
• 15:51
  not very. Good.
• 15:52
  So the fact that technology is coming on is responsible for
• 15:55
  those dreadful deaths. Exactly.
• 15:57
  You've got to, when you're pushing the envelope technology
• 16:00
  wise, you kind of do you, do you make mistakes I guess.
• 16:04
  It is so funny, though, how amused they are about the death
• 16:08
  of deaths. I mean, I like to think that
• 16:10
  they're sort of so they're like psychotically mad at this point
• 16:16
  because they've been, you know, treated so badly by the Daleks
• 16:19
  that they just find the whole thing very amusing.
• 16:22
  They're just over it and they're just like, yeah.
• 16:24
  And bring it on. Death Suite Embrace.
• 16:27
  So is this the scene now where they're talking about the the
• 16:30
  two armies and the fact that that the Doctor and Davros are
• 16:35
  the potential stalemates? Yeah.
• 16:38
  It's a that is a good idea, isn't it?
• 16:40
  Then it gives a purpose for us having both the Doctor and
• 16:43
  Davros in this story, right? Right.
• 16:45
  Who's going to get there first? They're.
• 16:47
  Both on the opposite sides and they're, and they're both doing
• 16:49
  the same things and, and will they will one of them kind of,
• 16:53
  you know, counteract the other? So yeah, it's, I mean, it's a
• 16:58
  funny idea and people do kind of lean into the fact that the
• 17:03
  Daleks aren't aren't actually robots, but they're kind of
• 17:06
  portrayed as robots here. But I don't mind it.
• 17:09
  They did kind of, they do kind of go some way to sort of
• 17:15
  talking about them as having been organic.
• 17:17
  And now they're kind of robots and they're kind of moved away
• 17:20
  from from the past reason. They're kind of over relying on
• 17:24
  their battle computers and. It's just the idea that they're
• 17:27
  logical, Paul, because, I mean, I'll tell you what, I've watched
• 17:29
  a lot of Daleks stories and yeah, the illogic that the
• 17:33
  Daleks display in their many plans is baffling.
• 17:36
  Yeah, yeah. But well, I mean, they're,
• 17:38
  they're as consistent here then as they are anywhere else,
• 17:41
  aren't they? So, So yeah, it's maybe not what
• 17:45
  the Daleks would normally do, but then the Daleks are often
• 17:47
  doing that. What is very different to the
• 17:50
  new series here is in if this was a new series episode, and I
• 17:53
  think it's a a concept that could power a new series
• 17:56
  episode, is you would see the 2 battle fleets, you know,
• 18:00
  waiting, poised, waiting to go right.
• 18:03
  And I think one of them would make the move and you'd see all
• 18:06
  the fireworks and everything here.
• 18:07
  It's all just done in exposition, isn't it?
• 18:09
  Yeah, there's two great armies out there in space.
• 18:12
  You know, that's retreat. Don't really see them trying to
• 18:14
  take on each other, do they? They're just literally just
• 18:16
  waiting to so for the optimum time to do it and and nothing
• 18:20
  happens. It is whether people like this
• 18:25
  story or not though, it is important going forward because
• 18:29
  the Mevellan virus that wipes out the Daleks almost entirely
• 18:36
  is a huge part of resurrection, which leads into Revelation.
• 18:40
  So in terms of the Dalek story going forward, it's massive.
• 18:45
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, It really does.
• 18:47
  Yeah. Set up that that whole kind of
• 18:49
  80s Dalek Dalek stories. There's a great moment there
• 18:53
  from Tommy Goes, haha. Wouldn't you like to know?
• 18:55
  Wouldn't you like to know? Wouldn't I like to know?
• 19:00
  I mean, he's playing all of that stuff quite seriously.
• 19:04
  Yeah, yeah, we talked to Part 1. He is.
• 19:06
  He is quite underplayed. And for the era of the show
• 19:08
  where he's known as being the kind of crazy, uncontrollable
• 19:12
  Tom, he's, he's playing it very, very strange.
• 19:15
  What was the name of the designer again?
• 19:18
  Oh, can let let some something like that, yeah.
• 19:22
  Absolute genius. The idea of that revolving door
• 19:25
  that leads you into the Magellan ship as well.
• 19:27
  You sort of stand in there and it goes around.
• 19:29
  Then it like a sly. Very clever.
• 19:33
  Look, Tafros looks more menacing on that screen.
• 19:36
  Yeah. Oh, no.
• 19:38
  Here they come. Now watch them.
• 19:39
  Watch these more extras as they're about to get murdered.
• 19:46
  I stole these robes off the Hydraconian Emperor.
• 19:49
  You know what else have we got here?
• 19:52
  There's you see on the left there the guy's wearing trousers
• 19:56
  from a from a VOC. Oh of course he's the fuck
• 20:00
  robot. Yeah.
• 20:02
  Oh, I think that one there and the guy on the right, that's
• 20:06
  Dasks costume from robots to death.
• 20:08
  Oh, yes, yes, I think you're right, yeah.
• 20:11
  I mean, look at that, it's yellow hat.
• 20:17
  Oh dear. Dead.
• 20:19
  Oh, actually, they don't look too amused yet there is one.
• 20:24
  Yeah, she she's the the slowest death of all time when she takes
• 20:27
  a good minute to get to the floor.
• 20:30
  Oh, that's how I'd like to go. You know, just.
• 20:36
  Yeah, if you've got to go, I mean, yeah, absolutely.
• 20:38
  Daintily to the floor. Doesn't he go?
• 20:42
  If you take one move, it's boom boom Davros.
• 20:47
  Oh dear. But this is good.
• 20:50
  I mean, how often do you see something like this?
• 20:52
  This the the standoff between. Monsters.
• 20:55
  You don't, Yeah, and. I I think it it works for me
• 20:58
  because Tom is playing it seriously.
• 21:00
  I think if he was, if he was having this up, I'd be less
• 21:04
  convinced. And it's the it's the kind of
• 21:06
  reverse of the the Genesis conundrum was like, do I have
• 21:09
  the right where he like here, he's like, well, I'm going to
• 21:12
  bloody well do it. You better take me seriously.
• 21:14
  Oh, and it's so wonderful, right?
• 21:16
  He leaves the BLOB that Ross and Ross goes you 2 Daleks.
• 21:21
  Quickly get. Your suckers on that.
• 21:24
  They both blow up and he goes Oh well, right on with the plan.
• 21:30
  What a prick. Oh boy, oh boy.
• 21:34
  Exterminations will continue agreed to his terms and Davros
• 21:38
  knows he's he like he will do is he says he knows that, Yeah.
• 21:42
  And I buy buy that that logic from the the Dalek saying, well,
• 21:46
  why? Why is he going to?
• 21:48
  Why is he going to do that? I love like we'll get there for
• 21:52
  Tom's like lunacy when he comes in in 4.
• 21:56
  Here's the smiling guy he's got Yeah, this.
• 21:59
  Oh no, it's because they're free.
• 22:00
  Oh, that's why they're happy. Right.
• 22:02
  But he's he's just seen his mates get shot.
• 22:04
  Run everybody and take the body with.
• 22:07
  You. Look, the Draconian was so
• 22:10
  happy. Now OK, I have an issue with
• 22:12
  this though. Now, OK, we have got people of
• 22:15
  colour playing the Mevellums and that's good.
• 22:20
  Those are speaking parts, but OK, there was a lot of people of
• 22:24
  colour on screen there and most of them were extras, you know,
• 22:29
  not allowed to say a word. True, but I mean, but I do think
• 22:34
  that that group of slaves, it does actually present a kind of
• 22:39
  fairly like a like a wide because these people have been
• 22:43
  taken from everywhere. And part one, that guy who dies,
• 22:45
  he's got like a some sort of ideas and he's saying where he's
• 22:48
  from. And so they are kind of from all
• 22:50
  over the place. I think later on you see one of
• 22:52
  them has got kind of weird golden fly eyes.
• 22:55
  So there's an attempt to make it feel like they've come from a
• 22:58
  lot of different places, but it feels like a wider universe.
• 23:03
  So of course, did. You see that?
• 23:06
  What a cunt that Ross just went exterminate the prisoners.
• 23:09
  He's gone. What the hell?
• 23:13
  It's not a man. He has to say he's not.
• 23:14
  He's not too bothered when he's too dark.
• 23:16
  He's going to get destroyed here.
• 23:18
  He gets so excited he goes remove the explosive and then
• 23:23
  the doctor was going to kill him.
• 23:26
  Yeah, but he knows. He's waited long enough.
• 23:28
  He knows. What a cheap way of showing
• 23:32
  those Daleks blew up. Davros sort of comes in through
• 23:34
  that cloud of smoke that's. Kind of, but that's a cool shot.
• 23:37
  I mean, that's again that we talked a lot about the
• 23:40
  direction, but you're right, they're not going to blow up
• 23:42
  those Daleks. They don't really have the the
• 23:44
  props to spare, but they're. Barely holding it together as it
• 23:47
  is. Exactly.
• 23:48
  They're they're literally falling a pole here, here.
• 23:50
  Davros bumps into the scenery. But.
• 23:53
  Did you see that? That Dalek, his whole top half
• 23:56
  top lifted up. Right, right.
• 23:59
  He got so excited. Yes, let's go.
• 24:02
  But like Ken, Ken Grieve showing Davros coming through the smoke
• 24:05
  of them being black, I think that's a pretty cool way of of
• 24:07
  showing that when you can't show them being blown up.
• 24:10
  It's yeah, it's a good yes, economic visual language.
• 24:14
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And exciting visually, I think
• 24:17
  it's yeah. Him coming in from the side, I
• 24:19
  think it's good have. You ever been so excited you
• 24:21
  know that you've popped your lid?
• 24:25
  Only watching Destiny, only doing a podcast with yourself?
• 24:29
  Oh. You charmer.
• 24:32
  Honestly. Oh, here she is.
• 24:33
  What's the lady's name again? The.
• 24:37
  Established. I couldn't.
• 24:37
  Remember, is absolutely stunning, isn't she?
• 24:41
  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if I was going to have
• 24:43
  it off with a day disco robot, I mean she would be the one.
• 24:48
  Oh, but look. Look at these shots of the
• 24:50
  Daleks from below. Yeah, you sent me this picture
• 24:52
  earlier, didn't you? Like, yeah, this yeah is really,
• 24:55
  really good. And this, I think it's got one
• 24:58
  up on Destiny, sorry Genesis that did this exact shot but in
• 25:01
  a studio with coloured lights. Yes, yeah.
• 25:06
  And and they look effective in in the quarry here and I often I
• 25:10
  don't really go for quarry is a great deal.
• 25:12
  But actually I think they they work really well here and the
• 25:15
  fact you see so many Daleks out on this sandpit I think is
• 25:18
  really effective. You say you don't really go for
• 25:21
  quarries. I know.
• 25:22
  Well, I think we talked about. Why are you watching this show?
• 25:26
  I think we we don't we carnival. I prefer a studio planet.
• 25:29
  I'd rather, I don't know, something about that, that I I
• 25:32
  kind of enjoy more than than a quarry.
• 25:35
  Oh, so what's he? So he's found this.
• 25:38
  Sort of, but here's what we talked about before, like that,
• 25:41
  that idea that the the Daleks are kind of moved away from
• 25:43
  their their kind of origins. He talks about he's found that
• 25:48
  the the kind of wherever they use the collared mutant corpse
• 25:51
  or whatever that bit of slime is.
• 25:54
  And he's saying that from that's from their kind of organic past.
• 25:58
  So they're trying to get in there.
• 26:00
  They are robotic now. They are.
• 26:01
  They are kind of now robotic. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:04
  But whether that's successful or not, I don't.
• 26:07
  I think it really fully comes off.
• 26:09
  And I think as fans, we've so engaged in that idea of these
• 26:13
  aren't robots, they are a living thing inside a tank.
• 26:16
  I mean, I'll say they're trying to do something different with
• 26:18
  them, though. Yeah.
• 26:19
  Do you know what I mean? Rather than just being a little
• 26:21
  screeching army, I mean, they're that as well.
• 26:23
  But yeah, I mean that that was a terrible Dalek mutant though,
• 26:28
  wasn't it? It was just a bit of that sort
• 26:29
  of place slime that you have. I think it literally was Yeah,
• 26:32
  yeah. In, I think in the in the
• 26:37
  production notes on the on the on the Blu-ray, it is any choice
• 26:41
  of green or pink. And Tom went with the pink
• 26:43
  slime. Don't ever give Tom creative
• 26:48
  choices. Remember when he chose to have
• 26:49
  blue blood in State of Decay? Yeah.
• 26:53
  Oh my God, that Dalek just blew up nicely.
• 26:56
  Oh, look at that. Have you ever had a fault so
• 27:01
  profound that your head has steamed with smoke like that
• 27:05
  Dalek? No, but sometimes, like when the
• 27:08
  Dalek just blows up in part 4 where he he can't see so he
• 27:13
  blows himself up. I've had many mornings.
• 27:16
  Oh yeah, I've often dance like a movellin in the sand.
• 27:20
  Come on, dance with me, Paul, dance with me.
• 27:23
  I'll put the video out along with the episode.
• 27:28
  So I think maybe they were created by the fish people
• 27:30
  because they got like the same kind of motion.
• 27:32
  And Tom takes a big risk here. And I think Tyson goes, hey,
• 27:34
  what you doing ripping her top off?
• 27:38
  Don't you worry, there's only circuit boards under there.
• 27:40
  Actually, that was quite a nice shot, wasn't it, of them pulling
• 27:45
  open the costume and the the. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 27:49
  The Nova Bomb. Right.
• 27:52
  So destructive it can destroy the entire atmosphere of a
• 27:56
  planet. I mean, if there was ever a
• 27:58
  Terry Nation idea there. Yeah, that is as nation as it
• 28:03
  gets. You know it's from the same
• 28:06
  brain as the man who wanted to pilot the Earth around like a
• 28:10
  spaceship. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:12
  Or the OR the the the the volcano.
• 28:15
  Ice volcano in Planet of the Daleks.
• 28:18
  I don't know if you've looked out of the window lately, Paul,
• 28:21
  but and seen what's going on in the world.
• 28:23
  I mean, terrible, terrible things, sort of a miserable
• 28:26
  world that we've built for ourselves here.
• 28:28
  I think one. Sometimes I wonder if we should
• 28:30
  just let off a Nova bomb and destroy the entire atmosphere of
• 28:33
  the planet and start again. After Christmas, maybe.
• 28:37
  Or no, you and I will go off in a spaceship to the second Earth.
• 28:42
  That's a little spoiler for later in this conversation, you
• 28:46
  know, and sort of, you know, rebuild Eden all over again.
• 28:49
  OK, Yeah, yeah. Oh.
• 28:51
  No, wait, we need a woman. Yeah, I guess we probably would
• 28:55
  when we we couldn't do much rebuilding.
• 28:57
  But you know, we probably find something to do talking part
• 29:00
  time. Well, she'll take your wife
• 29:03
  along with us. All right.
• 29:04
  OK. I'll just be there for the
• 29:06
  company. OK.
• 29:09
  I don't know how we got Oh, now look, yeah, this is that
• 29:13
  cliffhanger now where there's no music.
• 29:16
  I was, yeah. They had that in my my notes.
• 29:18
  It's weird how they can ratchet up attention.
• 29:21
  All you get is the bleep of the countdown and this great
• 29:25
  tracking shot of Tom. That's a wonderful shot, isn't
• 29:28
  it? And then through the tube of him
• 29:31
  approaching, there's just something very weirdly
• 29:37
  undramatic but Posen about this. Cliff yeah, it's very still,
• 29:42
  isn't it? It's like, you know, it's not
• 29:45
  like, as you say, music often is used to really punch up the
• 29:49
  drama. And like, if this is RTT, you'd
• 29:51
  have like, Murray Gold would be going just absolutely nuts at
• 29:54
  this point, just kind of really piling on the music.
• 29:57
  You wouldn't dream of having a moment of tension without music,
• 30:00
  would he? Murray.
• 30:01
  No, they couldn't have a moment of just quiet without music.
• 30:04
  You know, it's constant music the whole way through.
• 30:06
  We've. Seen the test, right?
• 30:08
  Like we've seen what happens inside that tube, so we know the
• 30:11
  stakes. We don't need the music to tell
• 30:13
  us. So all Ken Grieve does is some
• 30:15
  really stylish camera work showing that she's in terrible
• 30:19
  danger. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Oh, I wonder if she's going to. Get a little bit.
• 30:23
  I think she said it was highly uncomfortable and she had the
• 30:25
  new found respective of like people who do play the monsters
• 30:28
  and stuff and and the crap they have to go through because yeah,
• 30:31
  it doesn't look like it's particularly comfy being in a
• 30:33
  plastic tube. Unusual.
• 30:35
  You know, there's not many companions that wind up in a
• 30:37
  plastic tube. I suppose Zoe ends up in that
• 30:40
  jam jar, doesn't she? In she.
• 30:42
  Does the only gets in the the steamer thing in some Lakers?
• 30:45
  Oh yeah. Oh, Sarah Jane ends up in a
• 30:47
  plastic tube in Pyramids and Miles.
• 30:49
  Oh yeah, Actually, maybe it's more common than I thought.
• 30:52
  Oh, Mel ends up in a bubble, flying, flowing through space.
• 30:56
  Yeah, she certainly does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:58
  That's probably the most dramatic one of all that, the
• 31:00
  way that ball kind of just bounces off.
• 31:02
  Yeah, but you've got Kef McCulloch on that.
• 31:05
  Literally. The music is relentless.