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What Vet Nurses Really See — with Callum Marshall · Under The Fur

• speaker-0: Welcome to this week's episode of Under the Fur. And I am very fortunate to have my good friend Callum Marshall with me. He has been a veterinary nurse since he was 17. 17. speaker-1: Seventeen. I started training. speaker-0: Yeah. I don't think I'd even left Wales at that point. and he, have been a nurse for 11 years, qualified nurse. Yeah. Sick. Where did it all start? speaker-1: Started in a very rough part of North London, actually. So I did my training at the Make You Animal Home, which is in Kensal Green, so bordering Hulls and some other lovely areas, but it was an animal channel. I loved it. I actually prefer working there to some of the Posh places I've worked. the clients were more up front, friendly people, and hilarious, to be honest. The consult room was always funny. so yeah, I did my training there. speaker-0: lovely there. been there. It's great. It's lovely. speaker-1: three years and then I moved on to work in Essex. Well, Ilford, which is always contentious whether it's actually Essex or not. speaker-0: I can actually see you as an Essex boy. speaker-1: Absolutely not. That is that is almost as offensive as when one of my friends asked me if I ever purchased a laboo boo. No nothing wrong with Essex boys, but I'm not one. speaker-0: And you don't have any little boobs. speaker-1: I definitely don't have a laboo boo. speaker-0: Okay, so what did you do then? Is that where you started your nurse training? speaker-1: So the showing was at the Mayhew. So I did my apprenticeship there. And then I, yep, did my three years there, which was great because the nursing there was very hands-on. It was shelter medicine too, as well as community outreach. So got a real mix. wild situations going into like high rises to deal with Dobman's on radixly high floors, trying to get them out, working alongside the police quite a bit. you know, doing outreach on estates, lots of community based work. Trap new to release work, going out with animal welfare officers and yeah, just it wasn't your standard nurse training. And I'm very glad for that because it has meant that most of the things that get thrown at me in my career I've not been too phased by. speaker-0: You are quite, you are hard as nails. speaker-1: as well. Flappable, hard as hell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's always fun when something finally yeah, gets the heart rate up. But speaker-0: Yeah. My favorite thing is the look on your face when I walk in with seven extra procedures in a day. speaker-1: What and I'm just like, All right, here we go. Like goodbye to those dinner reservations kinda knew this was happening. speaker-0: I don't even think you complain about it. You just pick up your phone, text whoever you were meeting, put it out and we get on with it. speaker-1: We go. It's fine. It's just more fun. speaker-0: So what happened after Mayhew? speaker-1: After the Mayhew, I then went to work for Vets Now. So I was on their inaugural nursing edge course. So did some ECC training with them up in Scotland, was supposed to have a mentor period. the staffing levels were less than ideal. So my first shift I walked in to be told that I would be having a mentor shift. I was not. I was doing a critical anesthetic on a septic abdomen and had to work out very quickly how to do an autotransfusion. On my own, which to be honest is pretty standard for the way my career's gone. So yep. And yeah. So speaker-0: and the animal speaker-1: Did well till the end of the shift. so yeah, I kept it going. I think that was the first time I ever used Vaser Presses too. just picking up a book. Me and the vet were like, sure we can work this one out. Yeah. so yeah, so that was there. So yeah, that was Vets and Alford. So it did the of house with three PDSA hospitals, over East London Essex Way. So large caseload, lots of fun. Very speaker-0: It's busy. I've done a PDSA shift in vets now and I'm getting naps. And it's a 14 hour shift. speaker-1: Twenty inpatients. It was fifteen back then. But was fine, it was fun. The team were great. It was the team dynamic there that I loved. And I got to learn a lot. and yeah, like the clients were always interesting, come in with like hilarious stories. So yeah, I actually really enjoyed working there. So I went lots of stories. I don't know. There's it was always the I think one of my favorite ones was a dog that was obviously intoxicated with marijuana. speaker-0: Many stories. I'm share any. speaker-1: Two teenagers that were in the back of the concert room, rather bleary-eyed themselves and their little 80-year-old grandmother. And we were like, Is there any chance the dog could have got anything? And Granny's like, Definitely not. And we're looking at the kids like, they're definitely high. There's no way they're not. so we're like Granny, like, Do want to just pop out to reception to do the consent form? And as soon as she was out of the room and she's looked at the kids and went, What did you give the dog? To which they were like, Nothing, nothing. Honestly, why would we lie to you? Why would we lie to you? And we're like, If you don't tell us the truth, we're gonna go out there and tell your grandmother that you're high in this consult room. So you might wanna tell us what the dog's had. speaker-0: So you said, tell us the that we're going to tell on you. speaker-1: Yo I was like, I will snitch you out right now. so yeah, to which point they then admitted the dog had had a hash brownie. so treat the dog, bit of IV fat, all good. yeah, which was also similar to one of my favourite stories and s when I went over to the verts now in Stain's, where a client came in, she pulled her chihuahua out of a cat carrier and the spliff fell out with the dog. She was in the Adidas t-shirt that said doper than dope. And we went, Is there any chance your dog could have marijuana? And this thing was swaying in the breeze, pissing everywhere. And she's like, No, I wouldn't even know where to get drugs from. Wow. We're staring at the spliff on the consult table, like, just be honest with us. Just be honest. So yeah. speaker-0: This I have a story like this from Vets Now Stains as well. When I was locuming once, a really well-dressed, lovely lady came in with her dog that was off his face. It had the classic like pinpoint pupils. I could smell marijuana on its breath. And I said, your dog's had mar- I didn't even ask. I said, your dog has had marijuana. She's like, there is absolutely no way. There's no chance. I said, it has, need to treat it. And she's like, no, you've got it wrong. And so I looked at her and I just said, do you have a teenager at home? and her face dropped and she just said one moment and she went out to the car park and all I heard was, you stupid idiot, slam as a car door shut. Then she came in and she was like, yes, it wasn't my son's, it was his friends, they brought it to the house. I was like, it's fine. Can I treat you dog for marijuana toxicity now? speaker-1: That moment where you just have to look at them and be like, We're not the police. I actually don't care what your dog where you got it from. I just need to know what it's had. speaker-0: No jurisdiction here, I just want to treat your path. speaker-1: Yeah. Although my favourite intoxication was an intoxication that didn't happen. This little girl, her mum was an au pair and they were looking after the people's dog. The girl and the dog were found in the room with a load of chocolate. and the little girl was like, The dog ate the chocolate, not me. So comes rushing down to the vets, and the mum's like, I don't a hundred percent believe her. And it was this little Daxon, and we were like, Don't worry, we'll take him through, make him sick, not a lick of chocolate and then walk out to reception, I think, with an eyebrow raised and the little girl knew the gig was up. She just started crying and apologizing. She was like, Mummy, I'm sorry. And the mum shook me and went, So I'm assuming the dog ate no chocolate. I'm like, Not at all. Yeah. speaker-0: This feels like something my son would do. You would do that. Yeah. I've had a case where one dog framed the other one. Have you, you've bet you've had those where something's been eaten at home and one dog sitting there looking guilty and the owner's like, it was definitely that one. And the other dog's just like, living his best life. I'm fine. And you've made that dog sick. Nothing's come up. And I've said, are you sure it's not the other one? And she's like, okay, let's try. speaker-1: a hundred percent. speaker-0: Hooks up, guess what it was? Diamond earrings. First of all, what dog wants to eat diamond earrings? speaker-1: Imagine if it if got rid of them down the local park. speaker-0: Well, yeah, exactly. At least he was on the clinic floor. I got her to fish it out and wash them. I wasn't going to touch that. speaker-1: Wanna put them in the sonic cleaner? speaker-0: No, was like, your diamond earrings are on the floor. Feel free to come through and get them. speaker-1: Whenever it's a condom or a tampon. I'm not clearing that up if that's the dog's gone in the bin and eaten them. I'm like that's multiple times. multiple times. That's so speaker-0: So if you had. gross. So they say that and by they I mean me, the weirdos come out at night. speaker-1: All the time. Weirdos, more interesting people. Yeah, I mean it's fun people. Like it is more fun. Like especially my vets now career, I've gone all around like the UK. So like up to Liverpool, Aberdeen, like I've had been in multiple places and I do love it. Liverpool was hilarious because there was one time that these two guys that to be polite, they were junkies that were off their face. They had been in a massive fight but came in because they thought the dog had pulled its nail. And I mean these guys needed stitches themselves. And I was like, guys, you don't need to be here right now. Like, you need to be an A and E. The dog is fine. Or I think another client there came in and she had imbibed in something. And she was like, I was like, do you know? I was like, What's wrong with your dog? And she's like, Well, can't you tell? And I went, No, he was she was like, Well, he's magnificent. I was Yeah, you've got a lovely dog, but why are you here at three in the morning? And she was like, Well, he's shimmering. And I was like, Are you s do you mean just to clarify, do you mean seizuring? She's like, No. She's shimmering. And then I was like, You're off your face on acid, okay? And I just looked at her and went, We can end this here, or you can pay £200 to go through with all of this. And she had a moment and think she thought about it and realised that her trip wasn't worth £200 on these drugs. So off she made her way out of the clinic. speaker-0: which is what we call stupid tax. When they pay a consultant, you've tried to stop them from paying for that consultant, but they insist. speaker-1: But yeah. But yeah. But yeah, like yeah, like met lots of interesting people overnight, some celebrities, as well. We've come down with their pets, which everyone's always like, Wow And you're like, Well in the consort room, everyone's just a normal person. Yes. you've had up in your bougie days in north west London a lot of your high end clients. Yes. speaker-0: quite a few, had a few singers who sang down the phone to their dogs. Yeah. I had one guy that was a very well known presenter who let himself out back and ate all our Christmas chocolates. speaker-1: Goodbye to the Falkland Masons. speaker-0: Yes, I was like, well, I'm not a fan of yours anymore. speaker-1: Did he replace? speaker-0: Absolutely not. think he just thought they were out for anyone. Yeah. And he just ate our Christmas chocolates, but it's fine. We saved his dog. He didn't buy us any back, but you know, dogs fine. That's the main thing. I'm absolutely not bitter. speaker-1: Love it. No, not soul. speaker-0: bit. Yeah. So would you recommend night shifts to vet nurses or vets? speaker-1: I would for a short time frame, the experience and exposure you get and the way that you just have to think on your feet sometimes and problem solve, you're never gonna get when you're surrounded by people in a day clinic. Yeah. There are things that happen at two, three in the morning that sometimes, you know what, you just need to work it out. There was one time that I was operating with vet. We were doing a GDV and the suction wasn't working. This dog was bleeding left, right, and center, and we were like, What is the largest, most absorbent thing we had? And it was using the sterile drapes, having to pack this, I think it was a great Dane. It's a great Dane or German Shepherd, but trying to like stop bleeding at three in the morning and just work things out like that. Like, well, that's absorbent. We can use that to pack while we try and work it out because the suction's not working. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, yeah. And you see the weird and wonderful cases. I mean, the students that I deal with now are always like really excited to see things. So I'm like, God. I'm like, yeah, G D V, whatever, just be awake at two in the morning and you'll see one. Yeah. speaker-0: suggested that. That story sort of reminds me of the first day at the vet station when you kindly came to hold my hand and we opened and let's just say our standards dropped quickly. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, realising that you know, they always say you should have a practice run and we definitely should have Yeah back this run. Well we have the backup plans. speaker-0: We did have the backup plan so it's fine and so is the re-wenns. speaker-1: And we managed to speaker-0: We managed to jimmy that oxygen tank to the cable and oxygen was flowing. speaker-1: Yeah. I managed to work an autoclave out for the first time in how many years after using a piping bag to pipe sterile water into the hinge joint and send it to speaker-0: Excellent. So just for, just for the people listening, what happened was neither me or Callum knew how to make an autoclave work. we were the only ones there. And so we knew we needed water and we had to get the water into the autoclave, but we didn't know how. so Callum here decides he's going to get a piping bag cause we didn't have a funnel even and tried to pour the water in. and then anyway, The another nurse that was working then discovered what we were doing. we, she, she had been downstairs and she came up and she was like, what are you idiots doing? It's suction. Connected the tube, popped it into the water and there you go. I sucked it all up. speaker-1: Made sense when you knew, but if you don't speaker-0: No. don't know. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Piping back seemed ingenious at the time. speaker-0: So resilience. Yeah. is a good sense of humor. speaker-1: So it's good sense of humor. I mean all shifts come to an end. All things, you know, actually going into things with a bit of a sense of humor, it'll all be fine. Like things will always be fine. You'll work things out, you know, you're there to do the best that you can. so yeah. And I think that's one of the things I've always enjoyed, like with people I've worked with the night. So when we did night shifts together, no matter how bad, like that night where we had what, five X, that's bad. speaker-0: Yeah, back after back. And I think we ended up working something like 22 hours and we went home for about four hours and then came back into work to do that. And there was no one to cover our shifts. it was, yeah, these pets don't get treated or we miss a bit of sleep. speaker-1: Middle of country. Yeah. And I think it was that point, I think what was it the fourth one where the night bet came through with that smile and we were like, There can't be another ex lab left to do in West London and he was like, I've just scanned this dog and its being needs to come out and we were like, How? How is there any more surgery that needs to be done? But yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: I sometimes wonder if we have a friendship or a trauma bond. What's difference? speaker-1: I mean, what's the difference? A strong trauma bond is a strong friendship. Yeah. You know? And without that trauma bond you wouldn't have found it hilarious when I flew us into the wrong airport. So speaker-0: That's true. I would have preferred it if we had been in the city we were meant to go to. But it was so much fun being in the middle of nowhere with no taxis and no buses. speaker-1: race across the world, people apply to go on that TV show and you know, I gave you I gave you the experience. speaker-0: Yeah, it was, was funny. speaker-1: Yeah. You know, Simo won't try book a flight mid console. speaker-0: Even though they look on your face when something's gone wrong, there's a bit of silence and then you're rapidly doing things on your phone because you always want to find the solution before you tell me there's a problem. speaker-1: solutions person, what can I say? Don't come through with a problem, come to speaker-0: Night shift working. Excellent. The other thing I was going to ask you to talk about was your anesthesia certificate because that's obviously something that I've relied on heavily. So thank you very much for doing that. It's benefited me a lot. And I feel very, very safe and secure when you're doing my anesthesia for my procedures. So we know I do orthopedics and more of the maybe more complicated surgeries that take a long time and also are unstable patients. It's super important to me to have someone that I can really, really trust to do the anesthesia. It's hard to have eyes everywhere. So, can you tell us what you did, where you went and how it sort of helped you? speaker-1: Yeah. So the course was based out of Philadelphia and it was a lot of the diplomats from Penn that were running it. So it was a yeah, it had a very long title. It was like Perioperative Anesthesia, Critical Care Analgesia. But it was about performing for advanced anesthesia. and to be honest, I got access to some of the best teachers I could have ever hoped for. so yeah, the course was taught over in the States, so I was flying backs and forwards between working my full-time job at Bert's Now. And studying over in the States. so we would s go over for a study block, come back, bash some shifts out, head back over. But the course literally covered everything. and I yeah, could not thank them for the level of education that I got. The detail it went into was wild, the pharmacology, the nitty-gritty, the things that now a lot of people eye roll, and I'm like, this is cool. Let's talk about this. And the student nurse is like, why is he talking about Mick? Why does he want to talk about? The way that drugs interact. But that is what I find interesting like with anesthesia. And then we speaker-0: I think my students actually start to tremble speaker-1: Questioning. They love they love when they walk into the operating theater, and I'm like, they see the syringe drivers are going and they know what I'm about to ask. And yeah. Although I have realized I'm a bit samey when now some of the older ones that have been there a while can be like, he's asking that question again. I'm like, I need to get some new materials. but yeah, got to go up to Cornell. so there we were talk like Ryan Goggs and some other Dan Fletcher who runs the like recover CPR certificate. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: got to go into the recover lab, do my CPR certificate there, taught about ventilators up there. It was what like just the access learning I got there was second to none. And yeah, I so grateful for it. And it really they like did talk a lot in that course about, you know, the like trust you need in the operating theater as well. Cause like you said, it it's a two-way street. We both have to trust each other when we're in there. And I wouldn't be able to do the anesthetics that I do without being able to trust you, and especially within within the framework in the UK. know that me and you have that level of trust where I can discuss the protocols that I want to use with you and know that, you know what, you're gonna look into these protocols and be happy to prescribe and do all of that. So yeah. Yeah, it leads to some great surgical outcomes. I mean speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's great. mean, it should be this way. It should be collaborative. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. And yeah, like it should you be collaborative, go both ways where as a nurse I can come up to you and have a discussion with you'd be like, I think this would be a great program for this. And you'd be like, Yeah, look into that, check that you're happy with it, and yeah, go forward. I mean what one of our first surgeries was a thoracolomy together. Cause you were like, I need to do a thoracolmy, but I don't know anyone that can anesthetize well. And I was like, Well, funny that Although when I then asked for a ventilator and you pointed at a student nurse, I was like, not quite what I'm used to, but I'll make do speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. We have very good ventilators. We had that, the dog all that was on the panorama show. Yeah. I know I cheated on you. Callum is very unhappy with me because I did this whole economy without him, but it was by accident. didn't know my hand was going to go into the chest. Yes. And, I quickly advised my, one of my nurses there to start ventilating and she did a great job. speaker-1: Yeah, the ventilation. Yeah. Very proud. I mean she was my student, so very proud that she managed to do that. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. And then you've also done a lot of leadership and you're coming into a new leadership role. speaker-1: No. I am nursing and operations manager at the vet station. Yes. which very excited about. yeah, it's one of those jobs. As soon as I told all my friends about it, everyone was excited for me, was like, this is everything that you've wanted in a role for a very long time. but yeah, I started even as a student nurse, I had sort of some leadership responsibilities with like animal care assistants and overseeing them. And I got a lot with being left on my own for night shifts at the Mayhew as well, just overnight as animal care assistant. But when I went and started at Vets Now, there was no principal nurse manager. There actually wasn't there was one other part time nurse in the clinic. speaker-0: Like that role didn't exist or it did exist but you didn't have. speaker-1: One. They didn't have one in there. So I remember being about four months in. I hadn't even passed my probation. And my manager at the time called me into a room and she was like, So as you know, there's no principal nurse here. I like, Yeah, no, what's the plan? Are you gonna recruit someone in? Obviously, I was less than six months qualified, did not even think that I'd get a management role. And they were like, So we've got two options here. You can do the job, take the title, have the pay. I was like, Okay. I was like, wasn't expecting that. They were like, Or you can do the job, not have the title, not get the pay. And I was like, well, with that's Sophie's choice, I think I know what decision I'll make. so yeah. So I then, as soon as I passed my probation, became the principal nurse manager. five days into the role, I had to dismiss someone, which was a baptism of fire, coming into a leadership role. and yeah, it was all a massive learning curve from there. So my first year as a Qualified nurse, it wasn't just learning all the clinical side, it was all the leadership skills. But the some of the people I was surrounded by my like early years at Bets now, I could not have been more grateful to learn from some of them. absolute leaders in the profession, powerhouses. I mean, I was a gobby 20-year-old, and I remember getting into couldn't have any no, me? Gobby. No, no, no. getting into a speaker-0: Amazing. speaker-1: Rather public set too with the head of clinical nursing and one of my friends being like, Can you stop it? You're not gonna win this. And I was like, Well, I'll give it a try. And you know, it taught me lessons in sometimes you do need to wind back. You do need to actually, you know what, there's you don't always have to try to get your point across. And I wish I'd known that earlier. And I sometimes think if I'd gone into leadership a little bit later, I'd have learned that lesson in other ways instead of on such a public manner. And yeah, my The early parts of my career was lots of you know, lots of wins, but then lots of me making some quite public mistakes, which I'll own. speaker-0: also don't think that structure existed then. I've seen it now. And I think that's a little bit of what's improved with like the larger veterinary groups. They've brought in leadership training. I know when I was working for Linnaeus, we did personality, what are they called? Quizzes? Yeah. you take the disc or you can do the colors or there's multiple different ones. And I think that was the first time ever that I realized, first of I'm weird compared to everyone else, but also... speaker-1: Eight scored. speaker-0: This is why I don't communicate well with this person. And this is what they think of me when I'm really direct. They are offended. And then the other way around, they got to realize that I wasn't being offensive. I actually prefer direct communication, that kind of thing. I didn't have a clue. And that was, you know, well into my thirties and I didn't have a clue about these things. And that really didn't exist when we started our careers. so we would stumble along and publicly embarrass ourselves. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I when I got had my personality scoring. So I remember I did it. And then I sat in the room and I sat next to my co-manager at the time. and I looked over at and was like, what did you get? And he got, I can't remember what his one was, but it was like he needs all the detail and he's reasonably quiet. And I looked down at mine and it was DNI, which was like dominant and influencing. So on it, it was like, you know, you're gonna be loud, the centre of attention, chatty, talking to everyone, very confident. I was like, Well that's not me at all. I'm a little warflower. Which also showed I had no self perception at the age of twenty four. Like a wallflower, I wouldn't say boo to a goose. And he was like, That has you down to a T speaker-0: So I'm Yeah, similar experience. speaker-1: I like really shocked. I like, but no, I'm so quiet. Like I th that's not my personality type in the slightest. So yeah. speaker-0: I also learned weirdly that my husband has the opposite personality type for me, which is not supposed to go together. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So you've done, I don't know if there's any roles within vet nursing that you haven't done. speaker-1: yeah, but they do attract, don't they? Little go most things. I've worked charity, I've done some shifts in referral, been over to the US with my certificates. We went into like referral centres there, saw inside the university practices. Yeah. speaker-0: So how are you balancing it? Because you're busy. You work a lot. I know you. You work a lot. You pick up all of the extra shifts. You've been amazing for me. I pick up the phone and you come running and help me and you're always working. But you're also super social. speaker-1: Yeah, work hard, play hard. I love to travel, so yeah, I spend a lot of time traveling. And some of that, you know it was the correct city. It was just two hundred c kilometres away from where we were supposed to be. Was it two hundred kilometres? Something like that. It was the equivalent of landing in Southampton if you wanted to go to London. Anyway. According to Ryanair it was a Valencia airport. It was a Valencia airport. but no. speaker-0: When Effie flies to the wrong city. speaker-1: Yeah, like lots of travel. Some of that linked with veterinary. so, you know, some of the travel. So going to the States when I was studying there, one of my best friends lived in DC. So I spent weekends with him. I drive up to Boston to see another friend, go went out to California. Mexico. Mexico was more recent. So I had been over in San Diego where my best friend is currently stationed. and I think I was there for a conference actually. speaker-0: Welcome to Mexico, Kyle. speaker-1: Anyway, we were out having a great time in Hillcrest, which is a bit like the Clapham of San Diego, lovely gay time. And then my friend was like, Should we go to Tijuana to carry on the party? Now Tijuana is just across the border. And I was like, Do you know what? I've never been to Mexico. This sounds like a great idea, drunk at two o'clock in the morning. So we hop Anuber, we're going over the border, and obviously there's three guys in Anuber at two o'clock in the morning. We get pulled by the Mexican Border Patrol. Anyway, get pulled out. I would have pulled you. I mean, like, retrospectively, this is one of the worst decisions I've ever made. But yeah, we get pulled over, and yeah, next thing that we're being searched, fine. Didn't think anything of it. And then I am lactose intolerant, so carry lactase pills me everywhere, especially in the US. Everything has milk in it. Anyway, my pills come in these little, it looks like a little tic-tac box. but when the pill's been there for a while, it just kind of crumbles up into a powder. Next thing I'm in handcuffs face down on the carbonnet, and they're like, We're arresting you for tri possession of drugs. And I was like, they're not drugs, it's lactase pills. My Spanish almost non-existent. Vanessa has seen me try to converse in Spanish. I will just slip into Italian. speaker-0: I did lie to you when you were drunk and I told you Spanish was just Italian with a Spanish accent. speaker-1: And it's not at all. Nowhere closed. But yeah. Anyway, so next time I've got the handcuffs on, face down, and I'm like, what is going on? And then I do say to the guy, I'm like, they're lactase pills, and he's like, What does that mean? I was Sin lactosa, and he was like, got it. But then he was like, Whatever we're calling this speed. And I was like, I've never sobered up so quickly in my life. But one of my friends is with us in the US military and hit suddenly the handcuffs have come off of him. We're all like, what going on here? Anyway, a couple minutes later, finally we're like, How much? So the price of freedom is six hundred US dollars. and yeah, let let to carry on our merry way. wouldn't expect it to happen to a vet nurse, but it did. speaker-0: Thank you for sharing that absolutely not embarrassing story with us. speaker-1: I mean, you know what? At least it wasn't I forgot to take the lactose pill and the effects of that had happened. I'd much rather speaker-0: On the Mexican border. In an Uber. So we also traveled to China, which I like to say I surprised on you. Yeah. But that was amazing. I sort of booked your tickets and told you where you were coming, we went... And I knew you'd be the person that would just say yes. So I didn't ask first. But we got to go to the Harbin Slaughterhouse Survivors and we did amazing stuff there. speaker-1: Quick China trip. Perfect friendship. It's wild. Yeah. I didn't actually believe you when you said it was fifteen hundred dogs at this rescue. I was like, that's an overestimation. speaker-0: There was a lot about that trip you didn't believe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like to show it to you. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. but yeah, fifteen hundred dogs and just the work that charity having had such a strong charity background, like I was not expecting this charity to be functioning at the high standards that it was. Yeah. The cleanliness, the care for the pets there is just second to none. speaker-0: I was so happy with how much we got done. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? By 10 a.m. one day we'd had four or five dentals done. Poking eight plus teeth removed per dog. speaker-1: Five ten toes. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah. Knee surgeries, doing all that. Knee surgery. It was the teaching as well, just being able to teach and the gratitude from the vets at that sanctuary that we were taking. speaker-0: knee surgeries. I them. I actually can't wait to see them again. Yeah, I booked this again. We're going to get in two weeks. speaker-1: I know apparently that was when my leave in drinks were booked for vets now and I like, Yeah, you're gonna have to move them, I've been put on a plane again. yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I was also not sure I ran those flight tickets past you either. And then also you tried to make me run, but I want to run. speaker-1: I do rather. Did run and I f retrospectively feel very bad about that. I made Vanessa do a half marathon round the Surrey Hills with three thousand feet of incline. speaker-0: The first time I'd ever run more than 10 kilometers. Now I am sporty. I play a lot of sports. But I don't run. I hate running. speaker-1: World record, hold on. You did great. I speaker-0: because it was mostly walking to be fair. speaker-1: Very good time on that run. And that is not an easy run. I would actually say that that half marathon's harder than a marathon. speaker-0: That was hell. I didn't know my name by the end of it. I didn't know where I was. You found me on a park bench, mute. speaker-1: Having a hypo. Having the emergency nurse skills kicked in there, I like, Someone needs some glucose. Yes. And revived you. Yeah. But yeah. speaker-0: But you just ran the London Marathon for the guide dog. speaker-1: For the guide dogs for the second time. Yeah. Lots of fun. Very enjoyable day. and running for the guide dogs is an absolute honor and a pleasure. they're a charity that do so much good work. And I think when people think of guide dogs, you just think about, you know, the guide dog owners and a dog that shows them round, but people don't see that actually the guide dogs do so much in terms of getting visual aids into school so kids have access, ensuring that like all child all children have access to education. speaker-0: Amazing! speaker-1: they make sure that the guy dog and people that are living with vision loss have access to so many other things and they lobby so much from the government. It's such a wonderful charity. and yeah, I'm very honored to be involved with them. I mean, I've worked with them multiple times like with the dogs throughout my career. And actually I'd never thought about before that moment that I'd mit the dog back that suddenly this guy dog owner hasn't got this absolute essential part of their life that they rely on this companion who, you know, sees them through day to day. so yeah, so since starting doing that's really made me appreciate that and actually realize how lucky I am to be able to treat these dogs and get them back to their owners. so yeah, and this time with the marathon, there was Lynn who's a guide dog owner who she comes to all the events. Me and her quite like to have a beer. She's a runner herself. I think I'm doing the London Marathon with her next year, actually. I think she's running it. but she stopped at one point and just turned to me and gave me a hug and told me she's really proud of me and thanked me for all the like you know, doing all that. And lots of hay fever. I was actually gonna add to my sister who works the guide dogs had to leave Linden to a train station at that point, and I actually stood there and sobbed for about two minutes of my own because yeah, it's just really nice. so yeah, so I did the London Marathon this year and of speaker-0: But hey, if you've speaker-1: Got a spot for them again next year, so yeah. speaker-0: I'm proud of you. Yeah. Why aren't you I'm proud of you. speaker-1: Sorry. I know, but yeah. and Lynn's guide dog is hilarious. Like he is one of those ones that when he doesn't have his vest on. So for people that don't know, if a guide dog has a vest on, you do not talk to them, you leave them alone, they're in work mode. They're working. When they've got their vest off, they're back to normal dogs. And these dogs, you can see the switch between like work mode and normal mode. Spike as soon as that vest is off, you're like, you can see. the retriever in this dog because whatever food is closed he's like I'm going for that now and yeah. but yeah I love like getting to spend time with Lynn and some of the others. And yeah. It's just a really, really special charity. they're actually going to come in and do some training with us all at the vet station so that we can be more accessible for all our clients. speaker-0: Just wait. It's amazing. So one other thing I was going to bring up with you. There's not very many men in veterinary. speaker-1: Hopefully bring some of the dogs down. Not anymore. No. Luckily it's swinging towards what? I think all the classes that now graduate are about eighty percent female. Yeah. I mean, vet nursing, what is one percent? I always joke with Simon, who's a male nurse that I've worked with for years, that I'm like, Are you getting audited this year for your CPD? And he's like, No. And I'm like, Okay, it must be my turn then because it's probably about me and him speaker-0: How's it for you? speaker-1: In the profession and they, you know, they've got to keep the statistics fair and checking who's doing what. so yeah. So yeah, not a huge amount. I mean, for me, it's never been an issue. I've always loved learning from women, being working with them, being surrounded by women. so yeah, like it's never been an issue for me. I was the only man in my college class. and routinely will be, but in like different settings, but yeah. It's never really phased me. I've always been surrounded by girls. yeah, gays and girls. Gays and girls, you know. speaker-0: You do your first, gays and girls, that's what works. speaker-1: That's pretty much the veteran question at this point because yeah, a lot of the men in it as well. yeah. Lots of yeah. But yeah, no, it's yeah, and also it's sort it brings an in another interesting perspective working with women that much and opens up conversations that I think some of my friends that work in like male dominant in industries would never have. Like they don't understand like some of the misogyny that women can face and things like that. So speaker-0: Well, there's still a leadership discrepancy in veterinary, which drives me nuts. And I don't know how it can still be a thing, but it's like you said, 80 % dominated female industry, but most of the leadership roles are male. And it's infuriating. It's like, how can this be? speaker-1: I think recently as well with some of the corporates, they're swinging back where we were seeing great strides. Cause there was one point, but it's now the whole leadership team above me was female. Yeah. like everyone was female. there was one male in the more senior leadership roles, but yeah, my direct chain was fully female. But yeah, now again, you're seeing whole boards where it is men, particularly white males, that are like on the ops boards and things like that, which is a shame because that's not reflective of. what happens on the ground and no actually a lot of the talent that we have available to us as a profession. speaker-0: And you're missing a huge part of leadership skills when you don't represent both genders on a leadership board. I don't know the solution. I just know it pisses me off. speaker-1: I think like there's a conversation to be had about like hiring practices and like 'cause I had it once where I was recruiting for a role in a part of London where it's very ethnically diverse. And everyone that got that came to me for interview was from a white middle class background. So I turned around and went, This isn't and this is for an entry level role, this is for an ACA role. It's like this is not reflective of my local demographic. So there is either an issue with where we're trying to recruit from or somewhere in the process. At some point, people from like ethnic minorities are being filtered out and that's not appropriate because when I'm interviewing as a manager, I should be getting a large like breadth of experience placed in front of me so that I can hire like the best of the best. so yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's having those difficult conversations, you know, affirmative action isn't as far forward as it is in the US. You know, it's not as much a topic of conversation, but it is having those conversations when we're looking at hiring practices as a profession. And yeah. Yeah. But people don't like to have the awkward conversations it makes them sad. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're fine with it. And then just before we wrap up, I want your words of wisdom. So there's a varied audience. We've got people who are in the veterinary industry and people that maybe like pet owners. There might be some people that want to be vet nurses. So any words of advice for them? How can they start to get on the vet nurse track? What will help them to get where they want to be? speaker-1: It's never bother it never bothered me. So I think there's a couple of different ways with better nursing. So you've got the degree route, which, you know, do your A levels, you apply, you do your degree route. or for other people and like this is the route that I took, you know, the apprenticeship route. you come into it and volunteering and getting involved in your local animal charities really makes you stand out. so I know when I look at CVs, I always like to see people that have gone and volunteered, try to get involved in charities. And it is hard and it is difficult trying to get those places. But, you know, looking at your smaller charities, cats protection, places like that, weekend volunteering and little things like that just to get into it. And also the profession isn't what people always think it is. I think, you know, there's a misconception sometimes behind what veterinary work actually is. So getting that exposure to know that you truly actually want to be in there. because you know if throughout my career I've had the old person that will do six months, they're like, this isn't the job I thought it was because actually it's a lot of dealing with people. Some people seem to think that, you you'll come in and just work with animals, but actually seventy percent of our job's dealing people. So if you don't enjoy dealing with people, you're gonna find a large amount of this role is not satisfying to you. Yeah. speaker-0: I certainly don't. I don't think I would even take to interview someone that hadn't done work experience in the role. And a lot of the people who want to come work at the vet station actually come and do some work experience days there first. speaker-1: Yeah, which I think is definitely the way that you want to do it 'cause you want to make sure you've got people that are in the right role and know what they're getting getting in for. but yeah. But the charities definitely always appreciate people trying to speaker-0: Yeah, and that's a lovely way to volunteer. And then for people that are in the role that are RVNs or about to become RVNs and maybe want to progress their career as you have, because what I often hear is that it's a dead end role that you become an RVN and that's your ceiling and there's nowhere further to go potentially to head nurse but nowhere further. But you're an example of that not being the case. You've managed to still be an RVN and do the stuff that you love to do. and do leadership roles you've also taught, you've led lectures and many other things. So how can they do that? speaker-1: Don't people pigeonhole you. it's hard because even I sometimes will have to be like, no, I need to concentrate on one part of my career. At this point, I need to look at the leadership side, I need to look at the clinical side, but it's hard. like, yeah, as nurses, we don't have the luxury of set pathways and continuous progression, but you need to push your way forward into the rooms, have the conversations and be proactive in trying to get education. Like, one of the things with like nurse is like, You don't always get the access to further certificates and other things. Not every practice prioritizes that. And you need to look at the environment you're in and actually, if you know, you're not in a supportive environment, change it, move it, or have conversations about this isn't a supportive environment for nurses. We're not doing anything to progress our nurses. So let's change that. Let's push forward. Let's start funding CPD. and yeah. And then that's how you can slowly see positive change with the nursing profession. And then I think to like other nurses that are sort of more at my level that are seeing leadership roles, it's making sure that we don't do trapdoor where we've made it so we pull the door closed behind us. It's looking to see how you can progress the next profession on, push them to go further and do more and support them. 'cause there is always that thing, you know, the old head nurse that everyone's a bit fearful of. Like I don't think that's what you want to be. You want to be the head nurse that is pushing the younger nurses to like go for management roles, go for more clinical experience and Yeah, giving them that. So yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming today. It's been amazing. speaker-1: Thank you for having me. Yeah. Waffling along. speaker-0: I think it's really good to see your perspective and everything you've achieved. And I'm proud of you. speaker-1: You make me cry. You'll make me cry. speaker-0: Thank you, Caleb. speaker-1: Yeah.