Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Halloween Week: The Death House

Transcript

Halloween Week: The Death House · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Do you hear that sound? The sound of the wind
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: whistling through the empty trees, or the leaves giving way
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: with a crunch beneath your foot? That's the sound of autumn,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and it envelops me. I can't help but hear it
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and so much more, like the howl in the distance,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: over the calm waters of a lake at night, and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: even the sound of a piercing cackle coming from the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: depths of the woods. Ha ha! These sounds are the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: ones of Halloween. And my friends, that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Means it is officially Halloween week. Ladies, gentlemen, theys and thems,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: my name is Jacko.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And for six illustrious years, I have had the incredible
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: honor to be your master of ceremonies. for Wicked and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Grim's Halloween week. For seven straight days, you will receive
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: seven incredible episodes. The tales may be something of murderous
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: nature or criminal intent. Oh, but then again, they may
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: also be so much more. Perhaps paranormal, supernatural, or something
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: so terrifying you may not be able to turn out
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: your light. My friends, without further ado, I am pleased
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: beyond the mortal realm to introduce you to those who
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: will bring you such an event. They are my dear
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: friends and the masterminds behind more than 500 episodes diving
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: into the wicked. Here they are, for your grim enjoyment,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the two in a million, Ben and Nicole.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Could there be a better introduction than that?
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Holy moly.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jacko, for bringing us in to our sixth
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: annual Halloween week.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: It is here. Day one.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: You ready for this?
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: I'm totally ready.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: Are you? You're really ready?
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: I'm really ready.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: We're a little bit sick still. We're a little under
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: the weather, but we're getting through this. We're not letting
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: anything stand in our way.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Nothing stops Halloween week.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: Nothing stops Halloween week. Trust me when she says that
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: because she's 100% right.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: It's basically the best week of the year.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: The bestest of the bestest.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: We wait for this. We wait for this week. We do.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: And I've got some good spooky stories for you guys.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: All lined up and I'm pumped to share it.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Dang.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: But I also have to share something else first. Our
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: Halloween photo shoot, our annual Halloween photo shoot. We posted
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: it up on social media this morning. If you haven't
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: seen it, we highly suggest you go take a look.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: You got to tell us, is it your favorite that
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: we've done yet? Or do you have others that we've
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: done previously? That you think are even better. I really
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: like this one. I really do.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Is this your favorite one?
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: I think last year's is probably my favorite one. Our
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: 1920s murder cover up in the forest. That one was
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: probably my favorite. But this one would probably be my second.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: It came together really well.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: It really did.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: It's awesome. It's fun. I like it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: We can't tell you what it is, but you got
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: to go take a look for yourself. So if you
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: want to see her social links, they're in the description
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: of this podcast. You can go check it out and
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: let us know your thoughts.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: It may just be your favorite one.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: It may just be your favorite one. That's true. But
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: I think without further ado, we should just dive into
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: today's first Halloween episode.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: I think let's just rip the bandaid off and let's
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: I think so. And today's episode is about something called
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: the house of death. You ready for this?
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I don't know.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Let's dive in.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: There's something fascinating about old houses, particularly those that have
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: stood for more than a century. Generations of people pass
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: through their doors, each leaving behind a history that the
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: next occupants might never know. Families are raised, relationships fall apart,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: people grow old, and sometimes terrible things even happen behind
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: walls that reveal nothing to the outside world. But every
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: so often, a particular building develops a reputation that follows
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: it through the years. Stories begin to circulate among neighbors,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: strange experiences are passed from one resident to another, and
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: ordinary tragedies become tangled with rumors of something supernatural. And
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: while most of these stories are impossible to prove, the
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: history behind them can sometimes be far more disturbing than
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: the legends themselves. In the heart of New York City's
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Greenwich Village, just a short walk from Washington Square Park,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: stands a four-story brownstone townhouse at 14 West 10th Street.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: Constructed around 1856, the building is one of many 19th
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: century townhouses lining the neighborhood's narrow tree-covered streets. With its
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: tall windows, brick exterior, and traditional Greek revival architecture, there
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: was little about its appearance that would distinguish it from
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: the surrounding homes. Now, during the 19th century, Greenwich Village
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: was a fashionably residential neighborhood, attracting wealthy businessmen, prominent families,
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: and an increasing number of artists and writers. In fact,
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: one family associated with the townhouse was that of James
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Boorman Johnson, a wealthy businessman involved in the development of
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: the Metropolin and Broadway Underground Railroads, which were two early
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: transportation companies operating in Manhattan. But James was also a
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: supporter of the arts and helped establish the nearby 10th
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Street Studio building, which provided artists with places to work
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: and exhibit their paintings. Now, following his eventual death, his
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: widow and daughter reportedly moved into 14 West 10th Street
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: during the 1880s. And for several decades, the townhouse remained
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: a very desirable residence in an affluent part of Manhattan. However,
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: by the closing years of the 19th century, stories of
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: some misfortune began to emerge from this address. On August 9th, 1897,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: a well-known competitive cyclist named Fred H. Andrew who was
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: living at the property, was involved in an accident while
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: riding his bike. And apparently in that accident, Fred collided
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: with an eight-year-old boy and he broke his leg. Now,
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: authorities actually arrested Fred for reckless driving with his bicycle
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: and breaking this young boy's leg. And although the boy
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: reportedly recovered, the incident would eventually become part of the
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: growing collection of unfortunate events that were tied to this building.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: It was three years later, in the year 1900, and
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: the townhouse welcomed its most recognizable resident, Samuel Langhorne Clemens,
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: or better known by his pen name, Mark Twain. He
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: moved into the building and remained there for approximately a
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: year between 1900 and 1901. By then, Twain, which feels
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: a little odd to call him Twain, but it also
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: felt even more odd to call him Mark, so I'm
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: going to stick with Twain, But by then, Twain had
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: become one of America's most celebrated writers, known for novels
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: including The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: But despite his literary success, he had experienced significant financial
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: problems following other unsuccessful business ventures. Now, Twain was also
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: skeptical of supernatural claims, frequently using humor to criticize ghost
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: stories and superstition. But nevertheless, one unusual incident became associated
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: with his time there on West 10th Street. According to
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: later accounts, Twain was inside his home one evening when
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: he noticed a piece of firewood apparently moving through the
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: air along the floor without anything supporting it. He didn't
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: know what to think, but his best guess was that
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: a rat must somehow be carrying the piece of wood.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: So Twain reportedly grabbed a gun and shot towards the
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: moving object. The wood then fell to the floor, and
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: when he knelt down to examine it, he discovered, supposedly,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: several drops of blood nearby, although there was no visible
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: rat or other injured animal to be found. Twain, though,
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: reportedly maintained that a rodent had to have been responsible
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: for the incident, despite never finding one. Now, he eventually
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: left the property and would die in Connecticut on April 21, 21, 1910.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: But during the 1930s, another story involving the famous writer
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: began circulating. You see, a woman living in the townhouse
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: with her daughter reportedly encountered an elderly white-haired gentleman sitting
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: near a window in the home. And when she confronted him,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: the stranger allegedly just identified himself as Clemens, and then
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: explained that he had unresolved matters to settle on the property.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: And then the man simply vanished. Now, this woman's daughter
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: reportedly encountered the same apparition on another occasion as well,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: and the experiences frightened the pair enough that they eventually
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: moved away from the home, never looking back. The other
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: residents and visitors also began reporting unusual activity throughout the
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: townhouse too, particularly around its staircase. People would claim to
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: hear footsteps traveling up and down the stairs, even though
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: nobody appeared to be using them. Some even believed these
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: sounds belonged to Mark Twain himself, whose apparition was reportedly
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: even seen wandering the staircase, occasionally dressed in his recognizable
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: white suit. There were also accounts of a mysterious woman
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: wearing a long, flowing white gown who appeared in the
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: hallways before seemingly vanishing into thin air. Others even reported
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: encounters including the apparition of a young girl, the distant
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: sounds of a baby crying, and the sights of a
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: grey cat that appeared and disappeared without any reasonable explanation.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: By 1937, the townhouse had been converted into into approximately
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: 10 separate apartments, and one of its later residents was
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: an actress and writer named Jan Bryant Bartell, who had
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: previously lived next door at 16 West 10th Street with
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: her husband, Fred Bartell, and their family. In 1957, the
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: Bartells moved into an apartment on the upper floor of No. 14,
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: occupying rooms that had once served as the servants' quarters.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: and Jan would eventually describe a series of increasingly disturbing
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: experiences that she endured while inside this building. According to
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: her account, she felt very uncomfortable from the very moment
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: that she first arrived, particularly when she climbed the staircase,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: where she experienced a strange sensation that the carpet was
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: pulling her downward. On her first night in the apartment,
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: She then noticed a foul and powerful smell that could
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: only be described as rot and decomposition. And while she
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: was attempting to air out the bedroom, she witnessed a
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: sudden flash of light that appeared in the room and
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: made her scream. And over time, Jan heard many more
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: unexplained footsteps, smelt these unpleasant smells even more, and had
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: strange physical sensations, including some even brushing up against the
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: back of her neck. The family's dog reportedly growled repeatedly
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: at an empty chair, while visitors occasionally commented on seeing
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: a gray cat that the Bartels never owned. A delivery
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: worker reportedly heard invisible footsteps following him upstairs, and a
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: cleaning woman allegedly quit after hearing an unidentified voice while
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: alone in the apartment. One particularly unusual incident involved a
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: single rotten grape that Jan discovered sitting at the center
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: of a dinner plate, despite the family not purchasing grapes
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: for months. Jan also described encountering a large, black, human-shaped
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: shadow in a hallway. And when she reached towards it,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: she reportedly felt something cold and damp, causing her fingertips
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: to become numb and tingle. And she also noticed an
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: overpoweringly sweet smell in the air, Now, eventually, the Bartels
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: consulted a psychic medium who claimed that approximately 22 separate
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: spirits were connected to this property. These supposedly included a
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: young girl, a gray cat, and the spirit even of
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: an unborn child. The medium also described a Civil War-era
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: widow who had allegedly lost her husband and ended her
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: pregnancy there, with the remains supposedly buried in the dirt
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: beneath the townhouse itself. And during an attempt at cleansing
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: the home, a female presence in the home reportedly refused
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: to leave. It stood firm and declared that the building
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: belonged to her. Now, none of the alleged burials or
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: supernatural encounters have ever been independently verified, but it's really
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: hard to dismiss something that so many people seem to experience.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: The Bartels eventually left the townhouse, but Jan continued documenting
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: what she believed happened there. Her experiences became the basis
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: of Spindrift, Spray from the Psychic Sea, a manuscript describing
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: the reported hauntings, psychic investigations, and deaths associated with the building.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Then on June 18, 1973, Jan Bartel died unexpectedly at
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: her home at the age of 54. Although her death
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: has frequently been described as mysterious, some accounts state that
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: she suffered a heart attack while others speculate more about suicide.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: and I was unable to find any sort of medical
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: record that confirmed her cause of death. But what is
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: better established is that Jan died shortly after submitting the
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: manuscript for her book, Spindrift, Spray from a Psychic Sea,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: which managed to be published after her death in March
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: of 1974. By then, 14 West 10th Street had acquired
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: decades of stories involving strange apparitions, unexplained disturbances, and unfortunate deaths.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: So I'm a pretty big skeptic when it comes to
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: paranormal stuff. But this one, it just seems like there's
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: too much.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: There's a lot.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot. Like a lot of things I
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: think can be explained away and I would be one
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: to explain the shit away out of anything. But yeah,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: this one has, it's too much. And especially like if
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: my dog was acting funny, I think that would have me...
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: pretty on high alert.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, animals seem to sense things that we can't.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: And if your dog was like staring at a chair,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: barking and no one's there, I'd probably shit myself.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Not gonna lie. I don't know that. I don't think
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I could move on from that. That, that would make
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: me just so uneasy. Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Now there is something else that's going to be a
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: little interesting according to the story, because so far everything is,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: you could technically say alleged. Allegedly someone saw this. Allegedly
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: it happened. There are claims of this. There are stories
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: of that. There's no proof really of anything negative that
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: happened with this house. Some coincidences maybe of someone dying
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: or getting hurt. People die and get hurt all the time.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: But there is something that we add to this story
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: that's a little bit more concrete. Now, despite the history
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: of this home, The apartment continued drawing new residents in,
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: including a young professional couple who would make their home
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: on the building's third floor. It was in 1975 when
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: a New York attorney named Joel Steinberg and his girlfriend
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Hedda Nussbaum reportedly moved into the third floor apartment at
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: 14 West 10th Street in Greenwich Village. Joel was a
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: criminal defense attorney, and Hedda worked as a book editor
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: and children's author. Both were educated professionals, And their careers
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: allowed them to enjoy the lifestyle associated with one of
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: Manhattan's more desirable neighborhoods. The couple had reportedly been dating
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: for only a few months when they moved in together.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: And they told friends that they intended to get married,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: although the wedding never did happen. And maybe it's because
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: their relationship, well, was actually far from happy. You see,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Joel was physically abusive towards Hedda. And over time, the
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: injuries she suffered became harder and harder for her to conceal.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: She regularly appeared at work with visible bruises on her body,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: and colleagues became aware that she was being beaten at home. Now,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: despite the violence, though, Hedda remained with Joel. And in
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: the spring of 1981, an opportunity arose for them to
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: bring a child into their lives. And I say it
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: that way for a very specific reason. It was exactly that,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: an opportunity. Joel was contacted by a physician who knew
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: a pregnant woman interested in in placing her baby up
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: for adoption. Because Joel was an attorney, he was asked
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: to help arrange for that process. Now, the expectant mother
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: wanted her baby placed with a suitable family, preferably one
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: who was Roman Catholic like her, and Joel reportedly reassured
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: her that he would locate appropriate parents and handle the
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: necessary legal paperwork. The woman agreed with the arrangement and
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: the understanding that her child was going to be placed
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: with a family through a proper organized adoption. And in
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: May of 1981, she gave birth to her daughter. But
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: rather than find another family, Joel simply took the newborn
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: girl to the apartment he shared with Hedda of their own.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: They named her Elizabeth Steinberg, although she would generally be
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: known as Lisa. The couple began raising Lisa as their
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: own daughter, even though they never completed the legal adoption process.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: And as a result, the little girl was living with
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: them without the formal approval and oversight that ordinarily accompanies
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: an adoption. Exactly why Joel failed to complete the paperwork
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: is wildly unclear, but some accounts have suggested that undergoing
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: a proper adoption investigation could have exposed the abuse and
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: violence already occurring in the household. But either way, for Lisa,
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: the apartment on West 10th Street became her home. And
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: as she grew older, the violence within the house reportedly
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: continued on. Hedda was subject to repeated beatings, some of
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: which caused injuries far more serious than just bruises. Accounts
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: of her medical condition described damage to her face, broken bones,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: and even injuries affecting her spine. And over time, her
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: appearance began to change considerably as the abuse continued. The
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: couple eventually brought another child into the apartment too, and
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: it was a boy named Mitchell Steinberg. Like Lisa, Mitchell
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: reportedly entered their care through an adoption arrangement that was
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: never legally completed. By November of 1987, he was approximately
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: 18 months old, and Lisa, meanwhile, had just reached school age,
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: and people outside the household began noticing signs that something
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: was wrong. Her teachers reportedly observed bruises on her body
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: that raised some concerns about her safety. And when questioned
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: about those injuries, Joel and Hedda offered their explanations for them.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: They said, well, Lisa frequently fought with her younger brother,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: and they were marks from the result of just ordinary
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: childhood roughhousing and playing and fights. However, the explanations didn't
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: satisfy everyone, to the point that it even prompted some
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: to contact police, though there isn't much information regarding what
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: authorities discovered during subsequent visits. But all in all, despite
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: the concerns, both little Lisa and little Mitchell remained at
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: the apartment. Joel's use of cocaine was something very prominent,
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: and it became significantly a larger part of the household's
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: circumstances now. And sometimes he spent extended periods away from
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: the home. By the autumn of 1987, on Sunday, November 1st,
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Joel was reportedly using cocaine and getting ready to go
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: out for dinner with friends. And at some point that evening,
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: six-year-old little Lisa asked if she could come with him.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: But instead of dismissing her or saying he can't take
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: her along or even explaining the reason why he couldn't,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Joel simply just got angry and he struck the little
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: girl over the head, knocking her unconscious. Joel subsequently left
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: the apartment afterwards and Hedda remained inside, with Mitchell and Lisa. Now,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: despite Lisa's condition of being unconscious and struck over the head,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: she didn't contact emergency services. And for approximately 10 hours,
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: the six-year-old went without any sort of medical attention. Hedda
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: gave different reasons why she never called for help, including
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: her fear for Joel and her belief that he actually
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: possessed extraordinary healing abilities. But as the night passed, Lisa's
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: condition didn't improve. and by the following morning, she was unresponsive.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: Then finally, at 6.40 a.m., on Monday, November 2nd, 1987,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Hedda called 911 from the apartment. She told the emergency
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: operator that her daughter wasn't breathing, with reports suggesting she
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: initially said that Lisa was choking on some food. Emergency
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: personnel were immediately dispatched to the home, and when they
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: entered the third-floor apartment... they found Lisa unconscious and in
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: critical condition. Apparently, Lisa had spent much of the previous
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: night lying on the bathroom floor where Hedda had placed
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: her after Joel carried her unconscious body into the room. Then,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: at approximately 4 a.m. that morning, Joel had moved Lisa
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: onto her bed, and by the time paramedics arrived, she
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: had stopped breathing on her own, and emergency personnel immediately
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: began attempting to revive her. Her younger brother Mitchell was
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: also discovered inside the apartment. The toddler was reportedly restrained
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: in a crib or playpen of sorts, with his diaper soiled.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Accounts described him being left in his own urine with
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: signs of physical abuse. Hedda was visibly battered as well,
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: with extensive bruising and injuries to her face and body.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: But not only that, the apartment itself was described as
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: filthy and neglected. What had initially been reported as a
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: possible choking emergency now raised some very serious concerns about
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: much further abuse. Emergency responders focused on Lisa first, though,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: and they quickly transported her to St. Vincent's Hospital in Manhattan,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: where doctors began assessing the extent of her injuries while
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: she remained unconscious. Her condition was critical, and the injury
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: to her head was considerably more serious than a simple
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: choking that was mentioned earlier. they found that Lisa had
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: suffered severe blunt force trauma to her skull, resulting in
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: extensive damage to her brain. In fact, she remained in
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: a coma. And despite medical intervention, doctors determined that her
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: injuries were too severe for her to recover. Meanwhile, police
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: continued investigating the family's third-floor apartment at 14 West 10th
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Street and the conditions inside the townhouse while asking how
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: a six-year-old girl could sustain such a serious injury. During
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: their search, investigators reportedly discovered substantial amounts of drugs and
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: drug-related equipment. According to one account, the evidence included approximately
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: 9 ounces of marijuana, 20 grams of cocaine, hash, and
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: more than 20 crack pipes. They also reportedly recovered approximately $ 25, 000
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: in cash as well.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Hey, this guy is a fricking asshole.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: He's a monster.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Listening to that. Oh my gosh. Like those poor kids. Well,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: and the wife, like what is he doing? And he
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: brought the kids in.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: He did.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: He chose to do that. So that just makes no sense.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: I know, but he's a monster and monsters don't make sense.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm just hoping this house gives him what he
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: has coming or something.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: Well, investigators also examined the injuries suffered by Hedda and
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: the conditions in which Lisa's younger brother, Mitchell, had been discovered.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Hedda had extensive facial injuries, bruises, broken bones, damage to
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: her spine, while 18-month-old Mitchell had been restrained to a
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: crib and left in soiled diapers and some injuries and
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: reported signs of abuse as well.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: To an 18-month-old?
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that is like beyond monster.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: As police began piecing together the circumstances of Lisa's injuries,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: attention turned towards Joel's movements on the previous evening. They
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: found out what we already know, that Joel had become
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: angry when Lisa asked if she could come to dinner
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: with her daddy. But then he struck her over the head.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: Then approximately 10 hours had passed, and that's when Hedda
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: contacted 911. Now, as Lisa remained in the hospital, Joel
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: and Hedda faced criminal accusations related to her injuries. Doctors
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: eventually determined that Lisa's neurological condition offered no realistic possibility
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: for recovery. And so life support was withdrawn. And the
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: little girl died within days of her admission on November 5th,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: 1987 at 8.55 a.m.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that breaks my heart.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: Medical findings attributed her death to severe blunt force injuries
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: to the head. And following her death, prosecutors pursued a
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: criminal case against Joel. while Hedda's involvement became the subject
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: of considerable debate. Although both adults initially faced accusations, prosecutors
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: eventually agreed not to pursue charges against Hedda in exchange
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: for her cooperation and testimony against Joel. And this decision
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: was controversial. Hedda had endured years of serious abuse, yes,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: but people recognized that she had also been responsible for
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Lisa's care during the hours when the child desperately needed
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: medical assistance. And she did nothing. Now when Joel's case
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: went to trial in 1988, Hedda did her part and
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: she became an important prosecution witness. She described the physical
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: violence that she had endured throughout the relationship, including repeated
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: assaults that caused serious injuries to her face and to
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: her body. Her testimony also addressed Joel's psychological control over
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: her too. She claimed that he possessed unusual powers, including
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: the ability to hypnotize people and even heal injuries, which
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: were beliefs that she had that clearly affected her behavior
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: inside the house, particularly on the night her daughter needed
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: her the most. Why would she call 911 if her
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: dad could just heal her? The defense, though, well, they
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: challenged those accounts, of course. Joel's attorney argued that the
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: injuries Hedda had were a result from consensual sexual practices
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: rather than repeated physical abuse. They also disputed the prosecution's
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: examination on how Lisa had been injured, and Joel maintained
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: that he did not know how Lisa had sustained her
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: fatal head trauma, which, of course, he would say that. Now, ultimately,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: the jury rejected the most serious charge of second-degree murder,
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: but they did convict Joel of first-degree manslaughter. As a result,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: he received a sentence of of eight years and four
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: months to 25 years in prison, which was the maximum
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: available for that conviction. Joel served much of his sentence
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: in New York's Southport Correctional Facility, and over the years
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: he continued denying responsibility for Lisa's death, and his lack
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: of expressed remorse became an issue during parole proceedings too.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: He was denied parole twice. In fact, in 1997, in
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: a parole hearing, Joel was asked what he would say
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: to Lisa if he could speak to her again. And
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: rather than offering an apology or anything like that, he
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: allegedly responded sarcastically that he'd promise never to kill her
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: again or beat her every day or make her a
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: victim of torture. His comments were pure mockery to the
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: accusations against him rather than acknowledgement of anything in any
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: sort of wrongdoing. Despite those earlier denials, he eventually qualified
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: for a release under New York's rules concerning good behavior
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: and time served. And on June 30, 2004, Joel was
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: released after approximately 16 years in prison. By then, he
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: had been disbarred and could no longer practice law. He
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: moved to Harlem, where reports describe him attempting some construction
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: work or other employment while struggling with his public notoriety.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: In subsequent interviews, Joel continued disputing his responsibility for Lisa's death.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: And around the 30th anniversary for the case, he argued
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: that she had died because doctors withdrew life support rather
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: than accepting responsibility for the injuries that he placed upon her.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: He actually is blaming the doctors?
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: He is.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Hedda, meanwhile, remained a very controversial figure as well. Her
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: experience became part of a wider discussion concerning domestic violence,
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: coercive control, and the responsibilities of adults caring for children
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: in abusive households. Mitchell, meanwhile, survived and was removed from
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: the apartment. But the townhouse itself, well, it continued operating
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: as a private residential building. Its reputation for paranormal activity
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: continued on too. And on October 28, 2012, journalist Tim
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Donnelly published an article in the New York Post examining
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: reports and hauntings all along West 10th Street. Among those
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: interviewed was a musician and photographer named Dennis, who lived
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: next door to it at No. 16. Dennis claimed that
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: he had seen a woman wearing a long, flowing white
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: dress appearing inside his apartment, sometimes simply just passing through
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: the walls. He also described a visiting dancer who reportedly
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: saw one of these figures accompanied by the infamous... Gray cat.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: And according to Dennis, that woman collected her belongings and
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: immediately left. He also reported unusual flickering lights inside the
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: neighboring townhouse, although he acknowledged that there's ordinary explanations for
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: those things, such as a TV that could be possible,
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: but still, it left him with an odd feeling. These
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: reports resemble some of the experiences that Jan Bartel had
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: described decades earlier, particularly the apparition of the woman in
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: the old-fashioned clothing, and the mysterious gray cat. However, unlike
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the documented violence that occurred inside 14 West 10th Street
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: in 1987, the paranormal accounts, they remain unverified. Now, today,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: the brownstone building continues standing along the historic homes of
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: Greenwich Village, its elegant exterior revealing little about the lives
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: of its former residents. Over more than a century and
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: a half, The building accumulated stories of apparitions, strange disturbances,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: and unfortunate events and deaths. But among those stories, the
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: murder of Lisa Steinberg remains its most disturbing documented tragedy.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: One that required nothing supernatural to explain. Only a monster.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: And the townhouse where it happened continues to be remembered
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: by its infamous nickname. The House of Death. And that's
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: our first episode for Halloween week.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: And someone literally lives there right now.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: I assume so.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I'd be
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: able to give that place a chance.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: Understandable.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That's some scary stuff. Yeah.
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: I figured that'd be a good one to bring us
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: into Halloween week. It's got literally elements of everything.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: There's true crime. There's paranormal. You name it.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: It's a haunted house. Yeah.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: And so like the person, the lady in the white dress,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: we don't exactly know who that is.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Don't know who that is.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Don't know who the gray cat is either. And that
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: is a very strange apparition to see. Not only is
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: it a strange apparition to see, it's a strange apparition
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: to be seen over and over again.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Okay. I would be comforted almost by that. I'd way
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: rather see like this, a cat apparition than a person. Oh, same.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: Don't get me wrong.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, come sit with me. Like, let's snuggle.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: No kidding. You'd be in this haunted house and you'd
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: see this like gray cat down at the end of
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: this spooky hallway. The Nicole. Well, yeah.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: A cat that doesn't need a litter box. Like, perfect.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: That's, that's a cat. That's, yeah, that's what we need.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: Although that thing would be in and out of the
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: house all the time. Try keeping that door closed on
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: that cat. It's like, where's this cat now?
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Oh my word. No, that's a good kickoff for sure.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: That really is. But before we actually end this episode,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: we have something that we need to announce.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Yes. So every day this week, so seven days, we
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: are going to be releasing a number and you need
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: to keep track of these numbers because at the end
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: of the week, it may open something for you. So
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: today's number is eight. Okay.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Eight.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Eight.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: That's a good number.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: So keep track of these and more details to come
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be worth it for you. Awesome.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you for joining us here on day one
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: of Halloween week. We have six more days of amazing
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Halloween-ness coming your way. That was a terrible word, but
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: I'm sticking with it.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Halloween-ness.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I'm sticking with my guns. So until tomorrow.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Stay wicked.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you.