Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / How To Navigate International Surrogacy And Donor Options Conversation with Anita from Growing Families

Transcript

How To Navigate International Surrogacy And Donor Options Conversation with Anita from Growing Families · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Home of Fertility, a space for real conversation.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Expert insight about fertility, and creating family.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Miss Walker.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Helen Zay.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are two months who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fertility treatment, electric support, relationships, mindset, and the emotional high.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And today we are talking a lot about surrogacy and donor.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a wonderful lady from Growing Families, and her name is Anita.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Anita, my lovely, how are you today?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good, thank you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me, Liz.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's an absolute pleasure to have you and to talk about a very, very important subject that is um, you know, really supporting people with these decisions that they have to make.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, let's find out about you and then let's go into we've got a lot of wonderful questions and a lovely chat that we are going to have today.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, Anita, she joined Growing Families in 2023, bringing with her a rare depth of both professional life, insight and lived experience in surrogacy and donor pathways.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Having walked the same journey as many of these families, uh, very, very powerful honoring you there.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: She now supports Anita's work is grounded in empathy, integrity, and a genuine commitment to helping others achieve their dream of parenthood.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: She now has beautiful two daughters.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's now a mother of two beautiful daughters.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Anita became a parent through surrogacy in 2020 following a very life-changing cancer diagnosis, navigating her own journey through the height of the pandemic.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: This deeply personal experience continues to shape her compassionate, practical, and family-centered approach to support intended parents around the world.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Anita is known for her ability to bridge the personal and professional realities of surrogacy with warmth, clarity, and care, empowering families to move forward with confidence at every stage of their journey.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: She's a devoted mother of two, a podcast co-host and advocate, a surrogacy person of the year 2024 awardee, how wonderful, and a compassionate champion for intended parents.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, Anita, what an amazing.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel so honored to be speaking with you with all of these, your journey in life.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start off with what is your role?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: What is where you know with where you are working in growing families?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, um, first of all, thank you so much, Liz, for having me on your um podcast.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I actually haven't heard my bio read out to me before.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it was it was nice to um sit through and listen to it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um look, I um my job is just to help other people who want to have a family.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know firsthand what it meant to me to want and to have that want every day to um think about it so much um that I would cry, you know.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um all I wanted was to have a family and um I wouldn't stop until I got it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess um it burns, that desire um still burns inside me for other people.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, it doesn't matter who they are, um, if they want it, um, I'm there to help them.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I help um people all kinds, um, you know, who have a fertility journey.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, my clients um can be all over the world.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: They don't necessarily have to be in Australia.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I and I work for Growing Families, I guess that's number one.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um I, you know, I am um based in Melbourne and Growing Families is based in Sydney.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: We are based in Sydney, but we are a global company.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, you don't you don't necessarily um have to be from Australia for us to help you.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I guess it just um you just need to um fit the profile of a surrogacy journey or a cross-border um journey.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um if we can help you, then um and you want our support services, then we have um so many flexible options.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and that's where I come in, you know, um making sure they're the right client for us so that I can um basically guide them on their journey, you know.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: So really your really from what I understand, your role is about supporting people that are on a surrogacy or donor path, and through your lived experience, you can really support them in their choices to what is the right thing for them.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, um, that's right.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, um sorry, a bit of noise in the background.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so basically, um whether they uh are using donor um embryos and or their own, even their own, um, they've created uh um they've had an IBF journey and they want to send those embryos overseas because possibly they may not be able to carry.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um they've had um miscarriages or um are they unsuccessful in being able to implant those embryos, we can then help them with shipping, um, you know, shipping those embryos to a a place or a country um that might be um that might qualify for them, for their for them.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um in terms of it of them being uh like um gay or solo um solo w women as well, there's all different kinds of pathways that we need to discuss.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: So they may not necessarily even um have done the IVF yet in Australia, if they are from here.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um they could be even um from the USA.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: They could be based in the USA and looking for a journey overseas that is um uh affordable.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we can talk about that with them.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um right now, for example, I have um couples in Europe who are going to other destinations.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I am flexible with my time.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I am working global hours right now.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: This morning, I was actually up at 6 a.m.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: doing a meeting with a couple in Europe who are going to Colombia.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, um often I'm up at 6 a.m.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: going to bed at 2 a.m.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: in the morning because um, you know, we finished meetings at all um, you know, at all hours.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I honor you because I know you have two little ones.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so yes, I really honour that with the passion that you have for the work that you do.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, what kind of families and intended parents do you commonly support, even though it is global?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, uh I can support people who have already gone through a surrogacy journey or even had had one child themselves.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, we might call that a sibling journey.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: The reason why they might need surrogacy could be for various reasons.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: They may not be able to carry a second child.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um whether they are using donor um embryos on the second journey or not, uh, we could have double donor.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, double donor may be because they are at a point in their life where they can no longer make any more embryos, but they simply want another child um to complete their family.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um when we are working with gay couples, obviously they need a donor egg.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so uh lots of uh even um single men, we work with single men, gay couples, um, single women who um are looking for, and maybe they they have started their family later in life, and they may need double donor as well, and simply because they um didn't bank any eggs earlier in in their life as well.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they are having trouble making some quality embryos, even um finding a um donor egg in Australia, uh sorry, donor sperm in Australia.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: So they want to go overseas and um do a journey overseas.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um so many varieties, yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's endless.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: I um don't really have journeys that are similar by the time they've gone through um the old saying where no journey is the same is absolutely true.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: We could have two heterosexual couples going across to Georgia, which is a country where you need to be married and prove cohabitation.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: So um the the documentation is always different, you know.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's sort of similar with um paperwork and things like that, but the story about the couple is always unique.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So what what are some of the biggest challenges um that families face when they're navigating this international surrogacy and donor pathways?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like it, like you say, every journey is so different.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's there's just so much to navigate, isn't there?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um it could be, oh, let's see, there could be roadblocks with shipping.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's a big one.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's um always changing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like right now, for example, um, clients, I I could talk about what's happening now in the landscape.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we see changes every sort of three months.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm quite used to it and I adapt to the pressure.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: So um currently we've got the war that's happening um in the Middle East, and obviously for shipping, we um anybody who's going to Georgia, which is where I've had my children, um, there's always changes um in the climate.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um we generally ship through the Middle East.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: We do a lot of hand carry for um people's precious embryos.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And now that means there's going to be delays uh because we can't just change um change carriers or go through another direction because those shippers they rely on um certain pathways and um flight carriers for the licenses to go through.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about like maybe Qatar or um common airlines that allow them to carry those embryos um and the biomaterial.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not a shipper and I'm not the expert, but I do work, um, work with um growing families and I know the kinds of paperwork that we need and the process.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, it's not that easy to just change and go through China.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: So now we are stuck in everybody's um embryos and um all the ship shipping groups that were ready to go, maybe on hold for like three to six months until we can get safe passage for our shippers to go, the ones that want like hand carry.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's you know, also not safe for them to fly at the moment, as you can imagine.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which holds up everyone's journey because without those embryos, they cannot start um their their IVF overseas.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and people are devastated about that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: They're devastated that uh it's out of their control, they cannot start their um journey, and their dream to have a family is being put on hold.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one challenge right now at the moment.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um obviously another challenge is sometimes again to do with shipping might be um just the logistics um of all the documentation, the red tape and the paperwork, different countries demand um more than others.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it can be quite frightening and trying to go at it alone.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: So um part of what I do, um, part of my role at Growing Families is um working with um and supporting those clients with their documents, um, you know, coordinating it all, and sometimes um I surprise myself, like reading all the embryology reports, understanding it all, and being able to draft up reports back and forth, um, especially for certain countries that require specific reports to be notarized.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't come from an embryology background, but I've learnt it all, mastered it all.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: I actually come from a dental background, so I have got um knowledge of how to read reports and understand um shorthand notes and everything.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I picked it up quite quickly and understand um the knowledge, like I I understand what I need to do to be able to support my clients.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um I spend a lot of time online um with doctors in meetings.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess um when you go through the journey for yourself, and then you have to go through it again and again all around the world um for so many clients.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I guess you just learn everything.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the process for uh say Columbia, uh, America, um uh Georgia, Ghana, um surrogacy um for me um from beginning to end, I understand it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a language.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, if um sometimes if you are a relationship counselor, you might say there's a love language or there's different kinds of languages and the steps um then I guess we when we are talking to a client, um we then find the process that works for that client.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess that's what I do for surrogacy as well.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm able to to determine the process that client needs for the country and where they are going and how to get through every single step.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I can do that confidently.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, Anita.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and again, when we've had that lived experience, our our inner um like thirst of knowledge can overtake us.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we learn so quickly because we're you know, we really want to know and understand.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So now you're working in this field and being able to now learn about all of the different countries and their different ways.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: So this is just so wonderful that you have and learning all of this international systems and knowledge and know-how.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: What what an amazing person you are to have within this work.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, what would be, you know, as we were talking about all the different challenges, what where do you see people feeling so overwhelmed on this journey?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think they I think that um I think that throughout a surrogacy journey that um personally I see the clients and for myself, um they're continuously going to be challenged by their mindset, no matter what.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is um that is the most difficult part in the journey.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: And on a first, as a first-timer, um, like even if you were going on a sibling journey, maybe in a different country, because uh we see people who might do the USA the first time and then um look for a sibling journey in a different country, and um, or they may have had trust issues on the first journey and then come to growing families because they're just like it's all too much for them, and they want us to help streamline the process um and make sure nothing goes wrong for them, or tell us if there's any red red flags coming.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I guess there's so many reasons why you would use me um just to help with the planning as well.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, we're not just there to we're not overseeing the agency, we're working with the agency and the client.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's what we kind of promote um because uh because the agencies do know what they're doing and they have a process, but what um usually is that the agencies don't want to overwhelm the client at the same time, but a lot of the times the client's mind is racing and the unknown is picking their brain apart.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: So um, quite honestly, um, and and I recall it from my own journey that at different stages, like it could be the IVF waiting to be told something, you could be absolutely going out of your mind.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, when you get to waiting for a surrogate, like if you're told a timeline and that timeline delays or extends out by a couple of weeks from the time you signed on, um it can be like, oh, it it's been six weeks already, and I'm being told I have to wait.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as a client, if if you're paying a service, um, it starts to sort of be like, well, the control and the loss of control can trigger um and heighten emotions because it's you're engaging in a contract overseas, and the it's so they're so far away, they're in another country.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then as you get closer or you get a positive um pregnancy and you get closer to the birth again throughout the stages of the journey, there can be um lapses in communication.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: It could be as simple as there's a few public holidays overseas and you didn't get the communication in time, um, you know, or the communication might be a bit challenging at times because they're in a foreign country.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: I guess um then uh there can be, I I see this a lot, when as we get closer to the birth, um the emotions start to unravel um within it, could be just one of them or both of um if they're a couple, like I feel like they start to step backwards and be even feel so unprepared for a baby entering their life.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's amazing to watch, and I see it all the time.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And my job is to um protect them emotionally and to tell them it's okay, um, nurture them through and um re like assure them that I'm I'm going to be with them the whole way, you know.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just uh I'm on the phone and I'm there for them as they travel, you know, I'm there for them when the baby's going to be born.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that all what they're feeling is completely like to be expected because, you know, they've got different um uh hormones starting to run through their body and they're going to start connecting with a baby.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um and the, you know, that in itself is is basically completely normal, like as though you are pregnant and you give birth to a baby, we are starting to attach to the newborn um and bond.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what is happening to their body.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess they just need to be told that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and take a step back.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: I did miss something there, like um around the second trimester.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is so critical.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Where a lot of um parents um or couples don't really know how to celebrate a birth coming on, um, they kind of walk on eggshells because um they're not able to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Connect very well with their with a unborn child.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like bonding.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to find ways to do some group sessions with my clients.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have some third parties who might come in and do some special support sessions.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: We do all kinds of things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I do peer-to-peer support.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: I try and find some couples because within my within the concierge team where they kind of might match with one another and then support each other through.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: So there's all kinds of there's all kinds of ways that I can support my clients.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: But in relation to your question, I think that it can be really difficult for them at all stages of the journey.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: There's not just one.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, so so much.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm aware with different countries, there's lots of different laws and processes involved.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So how does your team with growing family help people feel more confident, supported in that way?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, we are a small team.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: We are very small and unique.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, myself and Sam work very closely together.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, if there is something that I'm not sure on, um, or or Sam, like we we both uh work together to support the client.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um we do have uh some other team members who are more sort of um front-facing, and they might be supporting the clients for general inquiries and things like that.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: But um Sam and I are the um the two that will support people through concierge.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: And um really um he is the backbone and the director of the company, and I'm I'm the person who manages the cases.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess um what clients do need to know is that um I do speak with Sam every week or every minute of the day, pretty much, and he'll call me two weekends or night and day.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, even though they might be supported by me primarily, Sam is always um, you know, he's my backbone.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, if I want to check something with him, um, I'm I might be checking with him and then getting back to the client, or he's the same with me.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we work together very closely.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's so beautiful.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so with growing families, looking like, you know, you're supporting the clinic, you're supporting the client, depending on their choice and also their journey.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: What makes then the model with growing families different from working directly with a clinic or an agency then?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, that's a good question because um anybody like like people can sort of, I guess they don't need growing families.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: They definitely could go at it themselves and um work their way through their own journey.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, some um people are confident enough to coordinate their own journey and um and definitely do that, and there's no right or wrong.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: And when you are doing that, there are some things that can get murky because you are probably relying on, say, Facebook groups and those kind of community services to help you.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: The difference is that yeah, the difference is um you kind of don't really know those people one-on-one.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're relying on maybe some friends you've made online.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: They might not be, they could be not real.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of them are just alias profiles these days.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: And um, it's a lot of trust you're putting into Facebook groups or WhatsApp groups, and um, it's a lot of personal information that you need to give out.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: And where the benefit you're getting is from growing families is that I'm a trusting person and um I'm going to help you as well to exit.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're depending on what package you get, um you're getting the assurance from the start to the finish that we are helping you with not only, you know, overseeing things from um in communication with your agency or your clinic, or um even your if you've got a lawyer or a third-party lawyer, but um you're also getting um assistance with planning, planning and strategy all the way through.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: It could be end-to-end, um, it could be the return home journey, collection of all of your documentation that you need, depending on what country um you've got to go back home to.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, we are global, but um, especially if it's like Australia or the UK, because I do um take on UK cases, and um I've said this before, UK is is like Australia on steroids, with the amount of um documents and um things that you need to do to go to go back home.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a lot to take on if you haven't done your research.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I would definitely recommend even just a consultation um with us or a lawyer before you get involved in surrogacy overseas.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I suppose that's why it's so good to get that independent global support for families when they're having to build their family across borders.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe this is, I suppose, one of the superpowers of growing families, would you say?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: We have a lot of um ways that we can help people, and whether it just be limited, you know, consults, just to get them on the right path, on the right path, and um and then like help, they may come back to us even just at the end, you know, or they may just need help with shipping.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we are so versatile that we fit, we can fit in with what they need.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that um that is what is really important about and about growing families and how we help.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing is that we're not we do the events, we do webinars.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: The webinars are free if you register online too, um, which give people which give people um so much education.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there's so so um much variety in how we um provide guidance and support to the wider community um globally.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of information on our website as well, just to give people a lot of um knowledge and keep people updated with any law changes.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um you can subscribe, simply subscribe to our um newsletter so that you're kept up to date throughout your journey.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because if something does come up, then you can jump on and have a consult if it affects you.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um so uh yeah, it's like I said, we we can't help everybody because we we don't have capacity to help everyone.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um but for the people who need it or want to invest in maybe um tailored support packages, um, then yeah, we we can help them as well.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do I do promote those um Facebook groups as well.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: There are ones that are um well run.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and those ones, um, if they are helping people um to be able to have a family, that's excellent.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um because you know, we are a small company, and um I'm I'm hopeful that um, you know, we are uh representing the um community in you know very well as and um respected enough that people would love to be subscribed to our newsletter, and that's probably enough sometimes.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's it's supporting people to understand a massive subject, you know, and you don't know what you don't know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what is you know your role as the global support manager for growing families?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: What does you know your day-to-day actually look like?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it so like I said, it could be getting up in the um, it could be getting up in the morning and um starting my day at 6 a.m.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes to jump into a meeting with a um with a doctor or a um and a client who might want to be discussing IVF.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um I could be getting news that somebody's got a pregnancy.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have lots of WhatsApp and emails, um, constantly clearing them, just making sure that I've read and acknowledged people's um requests.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um sometimes doing some admin, enrolling new clients.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do I um guide people and help people with um their citizenship applications.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's very um lengthy and it's it needs to be done um at certain times without people keeping people waiting because they've had babies overseas.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what else um do I do?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think last week I got called um because we were having a birth and um I I was live during a C section um in the afternoon.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um like I could get photos of them holding their baby because they've just got off a flight and the um, you know, the the baby came early.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's quite common.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like we might have a planned day, um, or I could be checking in to see how my clients have gone since arriving in their country.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: We I have a lot of meetings at night time usually.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I generally do my um take my kids to school um and get time with um with Madison during the day, have a lot of Teams meetings with Sam and phone calls with Sam and the team here in um the Grown Families team.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um honestly it's um it it can be clients from all around the world at different times of the day, but a lot of my clients are quite busy, like um, and working.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: So they like to schedule their meetings with me, possibly in the evening.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so which means if if they are from Australia, a lot of the time I could be um held up between, say, anywhere from 5 p.m.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: until 9 p.m.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um I scatter the meetings just so that I've got time with my children as well.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: What what do you find the most rewarding part of your role is?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think um what I personally love is when I have um when I have a client end to end, like um I've worked with them from the beginning, usually the platinum support, um, and I have a lot of those, but um they've come to me and they're usually in disbelief about ever having a child because they've gone through the road of IVF and it's been success unsuccessful for many years.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm usually their last point of call sometimes before they would give up.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they've they've said this to me.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: They've said, Anita, um, this is it for us.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're it if it doesn't work, like you know, and they've often asked me, have has there been success with your journeys?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can tell that they really like don't believe that they'll ever have a child.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm sort of on the other end of it thinking, nobody gives up with me.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, unless you become unfinancial or you can't do this anymore, or you really lose hope, you're not giving up with me.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we we're here, you're here.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm we're gonna do this together.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: I need you to believe, but um, we go all the way, guys.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is it.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, are you in?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: If you're in, we're in together.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, I have had people get like get stuck or halfway, and we go all the way, and we've had the births, um, and they are ecstatic, you know, like these people were sitting there in disbelief at the beginning, and I guess I probably must have instilled some inspiration in them.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure um I probably I probably um have had to keep their glass full, you know, these are half glass full people, definitely, and I've had such long Zoom calls with them, you know.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm normally supposed to do those 30-minute calls, but we could be on for three hours sometimes, some nights.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because they just need the time with me to understand that we're we're gonna go the whole way, and um I I don't I don't need to paint the picture.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes it's just they need someone to listen, they just need someone to tell them.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: You sometimes my kids jump on as well, and um, and they'll just have a conversation with my kids, and I it gives them inspiration as well.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's all it is.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, you've had your experience, and so tell us a bit about your perspective and your experience as well.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so my experience is um, you know, it's strange because I have such difficult cases, and my experience was actually textbook, like straightforward, although I had challenges.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: My challenges were external challenges from the from the journey.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we got, for example, we got stuck in COVID and we got stuck there for such a long time at the end, but they were challenges, different types.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, look, I obviously had um I had cancer, which led me down the path of needing um surrogacy.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um I was devastated about that.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: I um I wasn't ready to start a family.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I always had time.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was about 28 years old, and um nobody was sort of looking for the cancer.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll never forget one day I got this phone call when I was at work and they'd finally got these test results back.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just a surgeon calling me up and saying, You're gonna need a hysterectomy.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: We need to get you in straight away.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of will never forget, like sort of dropping on the floor in hysterics, saying, Does this mean I'm never gonna have kids?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And like it was so done, it was not like come into the office, let's talk to you or anything.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: They just basically blurted it out over the phone, like it meant nothing to them.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was, you know, three or four days later, come in, let's do the whole cone biopsy.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: And and then I I remember waking up under general anesthetic and saying to them, like, what did you remove?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Oh, um, they took uh um, I've forgotten the part.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they took some, they just took a part out of me, you know, like they took this part and um I I think it's not the is it the it's a part that holds um the baby in underneath when they do a uterus.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I thought I think it's not my uterus or uh it's something I've forgotten.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but they took something out and I said, Well, how much did you take out?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, two centimeters, and um then they were talking about um, you know, you probably won't, you wouldn't be able to hold a baby.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: At that stage, it was before I'd had the hysterectomy.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, how big was the is my hot like the whole part?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Oh, four centimeters, but it's two centimeters worth taken out, and you might need chemo, you might need this, you might need that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so wrong.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like the way they would tell me, you know, things.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: I just felt like like it was don't worry, you might need this, you might need that, you might not live, you might live.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was very, very, it was done very inappropriately back then.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess um, look, I've said this once before, the only thing that really gave me hope, even though right back in those times when I had the cancer, I wasn't really thinking about the cancer at all.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they told me to do an emergency uh egg retrieval, and I ended up making embryos, five embryos with my um husband.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: And through the whole cancer and the like until I got through remission, I guess I was only thinking about those embryos because that was the only thing that gave me inspiration.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I just wanted to move on and and um do something with those um embryos.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: They and I think that's maybe what started the whole thought process of surrogacy back in those times.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um once I would be well enough, I would kick start doing something with those embryos, and they didn't lead to anything for me.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they weren't tested, they were not um, we didn't know much about them, but unfortunately they dissolved in a um in a first attempt journey.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: We went to Bangkok back in those days.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was done again, it was done very poorly.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um whoever and however I got to Bangkok, um, I didn't know anything about the doctor I was dealing with, the paperwork, everything was quite poor.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I just got told um the embryos were all gone.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um I didn't get transfer papers when they were transferred into a surrogate.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't have much um information.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: For all I know, they could have just been we we think that they might have been um uh sold on the black market because they were Caucasian embryos, but we we honestly don't know much about what happened once I shipped those embryos to Bangkok.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um years later, I I went on with um the surrogacy journey in Georgia.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was because I started researching um guaranteed programs.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think my mindset had changed.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I just um wanted to know for sure if I invested in a journey that um it I would definitely have a child.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like if it was donor embryos, it didn't really worry me because I knew that I I couldn't have used my own.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: There was not I had had a hysterectomy.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think we originally started looking in the USA, um, and then I spoke to a few other professionals, and I'd gone to a Growing Families conference, and we ended up um we ended up in Georgia.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's you know, we were on Facebook groups, I would I ended up um finding other people who were going to Georgia too.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I ended up at this um clinic flying over to Georgia to actually look at the clinic because Liz, I wanted to make sure that wherever I was going um was a real place because I had lost a lot of trust.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in in um surrogacy, uh after after what happened to me and the embryos, and I guess you know, going back and thinking about all of that, you you know, you you sort of remember how how a lot of people who would come to me would be in the same situation.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: They would be like without trust, they would be feeling anxiety, all those triggering feelings.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's how they would be when they come to me, when I pick people up on their journeys.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I just really want to, you know, honor this path of yours with all of your health and then what happened to you as well with your eggs, just really honor, honor that and send you lots of love.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, our path, and I was my long path, um, it's really allowed us to have such deep understanding for other people.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm just, you know, just wanting to honor honor you on this and um just send you so many blessings and loves because you get it, you 100% get it.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is it that you wish more people understood when they begin a surrogacy or donor journey?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Look, I um I think that it's important that they know there's um growing families.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um we are we we are doing so much um to we've now got a verified program, and um they should read about it on our website, and it's to help ensure that there are some agencies around the world that are, it's almost like um uh well they're they're verifying their documentation.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: From start to finish of the process.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we're like, honestly, we're very proud of this program because it can give people the trust they need in certain um in certain agencies, clinics, lawyers around the world.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that if they do a bit of reading on that, it can give them the um give them the ability to have trust in going and doing surrogacy wherever it may be around the world.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: And just coming and having a conversation with us at Growing Families to start their journey could probably change their mindset because I was in that situation and I know exactly what it feels like when you could be feeling like you don't have an avenue to start a family.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then I did change my mind and I ended up with two beautiful children.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so I would I would just say don't give up.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's always there's always a path.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: There is, there is.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And for someone, so well, if if you're starting out, someone's starting out, what would be those practical first steps that you would recommend?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um definitely a consultation or um at least coming to going and and registering for one of the free webinars.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um we put them up every now and then.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um maybe just subscribe so that you get notified when whenever there's a webinar coming up.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: If if you can't join live, um then you'll get the recording if you've ticked the box to receive the recording afterwards.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um there is also um in-person events.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um Melbourne and Sydney um at the moment is where we're doing them, but there could be another one coming up um every year.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: We update where we're going.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think you've got one coming up soon.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so what's the website called?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's www.growingfamilies.org on the end.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: I hope I got that right.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh RG, absolutely.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so what what would be the main mistakes or those assumptions that um you often see that people might make in those early stages or of the process?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so often the mistakes they might make um could be with um look, it it just could be with um with where where they can go, understanding all their options and um where that like yeah, where they can go.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um and here's a good one, signing up with an agency, um, but then not knowing where the potholes are down the road.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um there could be sort of like waiting times when it gets to the surrogate matching and other things like that.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, sometimes things happen later on that weren't that way when they signed up.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, things change every sort of three to six months.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: They might not understand um the exit pathway at the end.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's very important.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: They might not have spoken to the right people or understood all the documentation required for their circumstances, and um, I think that's the main thing.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, you gotta know the journey from from the beginning to the end.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we do see some people who are emotionally like shut off from that because they don't believe in um or they just aren't ready to accept that they could possibly become pregnant, and they just want to focus on look, let's just see how far we get first and if it even happens.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and they don't they can't take in all the information, so they're kind of just let's just ship, let's just see if it happens, and then worry about the rest.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: But then you kind of do need to know the whole journey and do all your research, even if you don't want to hear that part.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank goodness for you that has that understanding, really.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how can listeners, you know, what what needs to happen for them to be better prepared on an emotional and a practical level for this can be quite long and complex journey.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I think that they just need to be patient and accepting that um even though like like we do have unfortunately we all be like, I want it by this time.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: I've had so many clients come to me and say, right, I want it to happen by this time.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we can't control the donor, we can't control the surrogate, we can't control if your like first option will change.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Never marry yourself to one donor.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: Never, you know, like you could doesn't matter if you go to the USA or Colombia or um Georgia, you know, unfortunately surrogacy works the same way, pregnancy works the same way, and um it it I know it might take nine months, but in this situation, unfortunately, sometimes like to find a donor could take six months to a year.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: It could take it could be straightforward, you could get the first donor.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: Your case might be different though, because you might not be, you might be going through um testing to see if you're compatible with that donor, which takes a couple of months too.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we see donors drop out.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: They sign up, they're human too.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: They sign up for a program, and then they might start it and then be like, oh, you know what?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to do this anymore.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't like all the poking and prodding and all the screening that I signed up for.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm out, sorry.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, you know, or I'm not available when they want me to be available because they might be traveling from another country, you know, to go and do it.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: So unfortunately, um donors often do drop out, and then it um the intending parents um they get disheartened because they obviously picked that donor because of their looks or because they had a certain connection with that donor.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, and then we see the same thing with the surrogate sometimes.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: The surrogate doesn't qualify, they um get mapped early on in the screening process, um, and then halfway through um they might uh their endometrial lining may not actually start to thicken past eight millimeters.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: So unfortunately, they might wait another month, try again, and then the doctors could turn around and say, this isn't the right surrogate for you.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: We need to put you back on the waiting list and give you the next one assigned, but it could take a couple of months until you get another one, depending on the flow of their surrogates being recruited.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, gosh, it's such a such a big journey, but then as you know, so worth it in the end, isn't it?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: It is, because by the time they'll get a baby, and I promise they will get this baby, right?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it'll be born, and they'll be looking back and they'll be thinking, you know what was that?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're so we're waiting, where we're getting, you know.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you won't be looking back and worrying about all these glitches that were happening back then, because it will you'll be happy and you'll have your baby, but then you'll be like knocking down on like when are we getting home?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: We want to go home because like there's always something else.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess this is all the natural pro process.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like um, I've got a I've got another one where lots of people do double journeys and because they don't now um want to spend the money to go back and do a sibling journey.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: So they either try for the twins or they try for the double journey.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um again to get the two surrogates to be in sync or to line up two surrogates at the same time.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it might look all fancy when you sign up for the packages, but then when it comes to the recruiting of the surrogates and to syncing them, different countries, different problems, more you know, delays, and then um just say they don't they get the two surrogates, but they don't sync them, or the first one is a missed fire, and then they get pre.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you might have two births six months apart, and then when you go there, you have to live in the country for like six months and get the first baby and then the second because you're not gonna fly back home.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: That will cost a fortune in flights.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we have so many um problems with different clients.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're not really problems, some of them are blessings, but like Yeah, because the different nuances, isn't it?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's um and and there's a workaround for everything, you know, there's always there's always a workaround for it.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: And my job is that's a that's a that's actually a day in my life.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like what is the problem?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like what what's come up?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: What are we doing?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: And even when I think I've ticked off and fixed everything and got through my day, I'll just go to sleep for a few hours and then there's a whole nother range of problems, and you know, um, yeah, yes.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I just I I think I I actually don't stop.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: I never leave from my computer.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it sounds like you're super busy.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, my beautiful Anita, as we close our conversation today, because we've talked on so many things, and I know your throat is slightly sore, so I don't want to um to push you too much, but what would be some parting advice or words for people or listeners here that are going to be on this journey?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe after listening to this podcast, they might actually be thinking, oh, oh, so this is all normal.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, I I would say if you haven't um thought about surrogacy, um, and maybe it's a pathway for you, definitely start with um growing families and come and have a consult with us and see if if we align with with you.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: And um and possibly, you know, um it's not a journey, like it isn't a journey for everyone, but if it is, and we I'm here to support, and so is Sam.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we can provide such great support for your journey.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people should come and have a chat to you, Anita.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: You have such such understanding, lived experience, and such wide knowledge.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you so much for your time today.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Liz.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me on this um podcast.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was wonderful to join you.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's an absolute honor, my lovely.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, for everyone listening out there, if this happens to be your path and you're curious, you want to know more, I I really recommend reach out to Anita and it's at growingfamilies.org or g.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Check out all of the amazing advice and the webinars that will be coming, and you know, uh this there's going to be a way to support you on your journey with the lovely Anita.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Liz.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, my darlings, and with that.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us at the Homer Fertility.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort, and connection.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: If this podcast resonated, please share it.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Leave a review or subscribe.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Remember the missing piece that might be waiting in a story.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Your body's wisdom.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's up?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just made for you.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: Take care and we'll see you next time.