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follow the breadcrumbs · soulful biz guidance

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: so we're live today with Claire Venus,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: who is participating in the interview Whispers of Inner Power,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: but we're changing the format today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing it live on Substack.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us, Claire.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing today?
• 0:15
  Oh you're so welcome yeah I'm good I was just having a really
• 0:18
  nice cozy writing
• 0:19
  morning and so when you said shall we jump on Substack Live I
• 0:23
  thought that's good
• 0:24
  because it'll shift me out of the cocoon and into okay like
• 0:28
  we're starting the day
• 0:29
  so I kind of mix my days up like that so that it you know it
• 0:33
  brings some new
• 0:34
  renewed energy and I'm not always on and I can kind of cozy in
• 0:38
  at times so yeah
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've just been doing that this morning how are you doing?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I homeschool my kids.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so my mornings are spent homeschooling.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I just realized I've been doing that for a few years.
• 0:51
  But now it's a bit more tricky because my son is five and my
• 0:55
  daughter is turning 14.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the gap is like, it can be helpful, but also she really needs me.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he also really needs me.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it feels like the moment I start to work right now, it's like a break.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I get that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we just had the Easter holidays and I felt like I was just,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: there was just a rumbling all the time of,
• 1:17
  my business brain was always on like i just didn't manage to
• 1:21
  cut off because i had
• 1:22
  bits and bobs to do and i always work in the mornings before
• 1:25
  the kids get up and i
• 1:26
  just yeah i didn't manage to be fully present or fully working
• 1:31
  for like two full
• 1:31
  weeks so i'm definitely feeling now into this space of okay
• 1:35
  what do i want to do so
• 1:36
  this morning yeah right in well gym groceries right in and then
• 1:40
  the interview with
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: you so yeah all good yeah
• 1:44
  Awesome so I don't I want to say we don't present Claire Venus
• 1:47
  anymore but maybe we
• 1:48
  do because maybe some people haven't heard about you maybe in
• 1:51
  some corner of
• 1:52
  Substack so can you please share with us who you are what you do
• 1:57
  and what led you to
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: do that maybe?
• 2:00
  Yeah for sure so hi everyone and it is so interesting that you
• 2:05
  should make that
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  SPEAKER_00: point Jessica because I think
• 2:08
  we feel when we've said a lot of things on the internet that
• 2:10
  people know but lots
• 2:11
  of people don't know lots of people are like oh okay cool
• 2:14
  Substack claire whatever
• 2:16
  so always nice to introduce yourself again so yeah my name is
• 2:20
  claire venus and i am
• 2:21
  an audience development and engagement consultant and Substack
• 2:25
  expert i've also been
• 2:26
  a mentor for over 20 years so i'm a real space holder when it
• 2:30
  comes to creativity
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: women's voice
• 2:33
  finding space online to do what we want to do so some of that
• 2:37
  is in the remembering
• 2:39
  um what it is that we're here to say perhaps like the
• 2:42
  conditioning got in the way
• 2:44
  or structured work got in the way some of that is just about
• 2:47
  innate creativity and
• 2:48
  seeing what flows out um and then there's the strategic piece
• 2:52
  you know because I do
• 2:53
  think there's this beautiful space where we can be paid for
• 2:57
  doing what we love to
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  SPEAKER_00: do as women um
• 3:00
  as nurturers you know whether that looks like nurturers of the
• 3:03
  home or nurturers
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  for our parents um children pets you know I do think that there
• 3:09
  is a nice balance
• 3:10
  that we can find but there is also the fast pace of the
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  internet so my background
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  was festivals and events and in the pandemic when I was
• 3:18
  pregnant with my daughter
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  SPEAKER_00: she's five now um
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: all my work was cancelled.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so in the UK,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: because I was self-employed,
• 3:27
  I did get a grant to cover the expenses that were due in that
• 3:30
  was based on my
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: annual income.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there was this real moment of crossroads around if this is my income,
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  it was almost like I was standing on a mountain looking back
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  down at all of the
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  SPEAKER_00: festivals and events I'd ever created and going,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: growing a child and going,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: that's all quite a lot.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've done quite a lot.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I was in my late thirties at the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't, I don't see a way forward.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't see the other side of the mountain looking like this.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite tired.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: This has all been quite a lot.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't earn as much as I want to earn.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the lifestyle that I want to have.
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  And I'd always been curious about building an online audience
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  and what that might
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  SPEAKER_00: look like for me.
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  I always felt like I was sort of on the cusp of something,
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  but nobody was really listening.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really know what I was saying.
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  SPEAKER_00: It
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I just decided to give it a go and just follow the breadcrumbs,
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  SPEAKER_00: follow the sparkles and try some different things.
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  SPEAKER_00: Be really experimentational,
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  get over a lot of rejection sensitivity that I had by just the
• 4:33
  sheer exposure
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  SPEAKER_00: therapy of showing up and doing things.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then that bleeding into real life as well,
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  because obviously there is always an audience that knows you as
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  a physical person
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  SPEAKER_00: that sees your online presence.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is odd.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's an odd feeling for the creator.
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  It's an odd feeling to know like we're breaking the fourth wall
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  because we're
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  SPEAKER_00: together,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you're not really interested in what I'm doing yet.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're following everything.
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  SPEAKER_00: So there was all of that, you know.
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  So,
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  yeah,
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  I feel like where I'm at now is probably the most secure place
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  I've ever been.
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  because of my creative practice and because of the experiments
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  i've allowed myself
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  to do and i guess because of what's reflected back as well
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  because i think a lot of
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  what i love to do as a projector in human design is go what
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  about the vision guys
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  like what's the vision what's the 10-year legacy look like you
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  know and like work
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  SPEAKER_00: with people in that so
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  I feel like it's such a beautiful time to be having these
• 5:30
  conversations as women
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  SPEAKER_00: and just going deeper in all of that,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit of the backstory,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: but also like,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: are you okay?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Am I okay?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are we all feeling okay about doing this work?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because it can feel quite intense.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I already want to react on so much that you have just shared.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for this full answer.
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  SPEAKER_01: The first thing is that I really think,
• 5:51
  I really feel how inspiring it is to see this experimentation
• 5:56
  that you're doing on
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Substack and encouraging others to do it as well.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just reminded me that I saw your presentation at Ruth's summit,
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  SPEAKER_01: the Soulful Say Summit,
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  and it's one of those that marked me the most already because I
• 6:11
  was excited to
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: listen to you.
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  SPEAKER_01: I already knew you from before.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was like, ooh, what is she going to say?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I really feel that this invitation to play is really refreshing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of things and notes or
• 6:26
  Even people publishing their Substack around how to get better
• 6:30
  numbers.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what you have to do.
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  And all these shoots that we already had in traditional
• 6:36
  business,
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  we find them now on Substack.
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  SPEAKER_01: You come in and you're like, play.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just experiment and add voice or add video or go live.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's be experimental in it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's follow the crumbles.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's follow the joy.
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  SPEAKER_01: I find that it's so interesting.
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  SPEAKER_01: really refreshing and liberating as well for self-expression.
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  I wonder if that's always been part of your nature or if that's
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  something that you
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  SPEAKER_01: had to cultivate intentionally.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  I think there's this real sort of sense with all of the work
• 7:11
  that I've done where I
• 7:13
  always feel like I have to slightly sit on my hands so that I
• 7:15
  don't burn out.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think because I can see all of the eventualities and possibilities,
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  SPEAKER_00: I always want to do more,
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  which is why festivals work really suited me because festivals
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  are a massive
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  SPEAKER_00: undertaking.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the one that I worked on,
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  SPEAKER_00: it was 10 days of children and young people's arts and culture events.
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  um across maybe I can't remember like 40 different venues
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  little bits of online
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  stuff not loads though at that time but we worked on a for a
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  full year to make that
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  10-day thing happen so it was like loads and loads of energy
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  towards a 10-day very
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  concentrated very electric very intense thing that lots of
• 7:55
  people experienced and
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  SPEAKER_00: we could never hold the enormity of what they experienced so
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  SPEAKER_00: always in the moment when we were delivering and I think I got better at
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  cultivating this I would see more opportunities for more
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  vibrance or better
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  marketing or if we just said it like that or if we'd just been
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  able to do this
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  thing over here so a lot of the stuff had you know special
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  trails and it was you
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  know out in the open in the street and there was pop-up things
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  happening like it
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  was around the flash mob time so there was like things like
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  that like I used to do
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  SPEAKER_00: balloon launches before we all
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  got really concerned about the environment and what a terrible
• 8:32
  thing that was to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: there was always so much to the festivals that then,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: you spend this little bit of time reflecting,
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  having the conversations that are quite constructive around
• 8:43
  what went well and what
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  SPEAKER_00: could be better next time.
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  And you just cultivate and improve what you want the audience
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  and participant experience to be.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think in all of that,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: like there's definitely that within me and within my human design line,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a two four.
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  SPEAKER_00: So there's the hermit and then there's like the opportunist that's like,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
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  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: we could do all the things.
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  And there's something really beautiful about arriving to
• 9:06
  Substack as an elder
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: millennial that has experienced a lot of the internet,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like we know the internet, we helped shape it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've seen what's possible on it.
• 9:17
  from you know Facebook groups to MSN messenger to like my
• 9:20
  spaces my spaces going
• 9:22
  viral on Instagram like we've just seen so much and with
• 9:26
  Substack I was like this
• 9:28
  feels like a breath of fresh air like especially back in 2022
• 9:32
  when I joined I was
• 9:33
  like oh right we're just writing we're gonna write some things
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  and so I think
• 9:38
  because I had just had my daughter you know she wasn't quite
• 9:42
  two when I joined
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Substack so I think there was that piece of like
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: The invitation to write on a blank canvas and nothing else.
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  And it just be about the words and it be about the storytelling
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  and be about my emotions.
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  Like I was very emotional at the time and I'm very open about
• 9:57
  the reasons why.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it just felt like, OK, this is what we're doing here.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're actually pouring out long form story.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that felt so nice.
• 10:06
  So I actually deleted Instagram for months and months and
• 10:08
  months whenSubstack sort
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: of made sense to me.
• 10:11
  And the experimental stuff came later because I could see
• 10:15
  people were wedging
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: themselves into what was right and what was wrong.
• 10:19
  like proper you know some stuff and i was like oh no i'm not
• 10:24
  about that like it's
• 10:25
  not about the blueprints it's not about the grammar it's not
• 10:27
  about the spelling
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  like my goodness like this is about human expression and human
• 10:32
  connection because
• 10:33
  people were so thoughtful in the comments around that time they
• 10:36
  still are but it's
• 10:36
  just a bit different now and i was like if we box ourselves in
• 10:41
  around craft and
• 10:42
  what we were taught at school we're not giving ourselves that
• 10:46
  space to play we're
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: still stuck in a system
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we know how that plays out.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it can play out really well for lots of people.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not a best-selling author, for example.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I haven't owned my craft in that way.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do things in different ways.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think I'd get bored.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: when people talk about the book writing process,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether I'd be able to do that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I do write books.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've written a book a year for six years, but I write them on my terms.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, again...
• 11:11
  no one said I couldn't do that but no one said I could either
• 11:14
  so I just have just
• 11:17
  like this what if we do this so it's not right for everybody
• 11:21
  and I know people do
• 11:22
  get a bit like oh that's fine for you Claire but how do you do
• 11:24
  it but this is just
• 11:26
  where my energy is and it isn't this vibrant all year round I
• 11:29
  am a midlife mum you
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: know like it does come in ebbs and flows but I think
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite sharp with what I want to do and I don't overthink.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just get stuff out there and then I go, OK, like that felt like this.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: This looked like that.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: These people commented.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: These people shared.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: This happened over here.
• 11:46
  So,
• 11:47
  yeah,
• 11:47
  I just love the possibility of Substack and I always have.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love how generous you are about that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And also how honest you are.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I always read in the notes,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: whatever happens,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: something touches you,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: something didn't go as you wanted,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: or people were not so nice to you.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you also share how that affects you.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's so important because as sensitive women,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: and you talk about midlife,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: but before you mentioned as well,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: sensitivity to rejection.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I speak to an audience of highly sensitive women.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why sub-sex feels so good to us,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 12:25
  because it seems like it's not so harsh and we get to take a
• 12:30
  step and another and
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: it's okay and it's safe.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, it encouraged this freedom of expression.
• 12:39
  And it's also so important to be able to look up to people who
• 12:44
  are making something
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: of their space,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: turning it into a sustainable,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: profitable business,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: but also...
• 12:51
  are very transparent about the fact that it's not because we
• 12:55
  are taking space or
• 12:58
  sharing our voice or doing fun things or appearing always as
• 13:02
  this vibrant,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: funny,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: smiling person that that's all there is.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is also vulnerability.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's also moments of doubts.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's also moments of,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: that didn't work out or I felt hurt by someone's comment,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: for instance.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's also something that you do quite well, I feel.
• 13:22
  You mentioned earlier that the more you showed up and the more
• 13:26
  you became,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to overuse the word,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: but like resilient to rejection or criticism.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I ask this question,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: everyone,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: do you have kind of a routine or ritual or elements,
• 13:41
  maybe practices that you use in order maybe to regulate your
• 13:45
  nervous system in
• 13:46
  order to show up to things that are maybe a bit outside of your
• 13:49
  comforts and a bit
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: of a stretch or something?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of it is in the journaling practice of reflection.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So inside of Sparkle on Substack twice a month,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: we'll do sort of weekend celebrations and we'll be like,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: what is everyone celebrating?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: some of that stuff is massive stuff,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: like someone's got a book out or,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: someone will be like,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a paid subscriber,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: like really big stuff that feels beautiful and bold and lovely to catch.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think what I...
• 14:15
  discovered about myself when I was doing a year on rejection so
• 14:19
  I did this full
• 14:19
  year it might have even been longer than a year that cultivated
• 14:22
  in an anthology
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: called the rejection palace um
• 14:26
  was that I was locking myself in the story of it and so it was
• 14:31
  a self-fulfilling
• 14:32
  prophecy right like for so long because the fear of putting
• 14:36
  myself out there
• 14:37
  whether that was pitching or job interviews or whatever it was
• 14:41
  just kept me so
• 14:43
  stuck in the work that I was doing and I was comfortable with
• 14:46
  you know our
• 14:47
  could easily get,
• 14:48
  you know,
• 14:49
  somebody would be like,
• 14:49
  oh,
• 14:50
  Claire will do that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's a great fundraiser for the arts.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's a great producer.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's a project manager.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So all of my work was based on that.
• 14:56
  So I was always waiting for the opportunities to come rather
• 14:59
  than picture myself out.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So with the rejection process,
• 15:02
  palace really going into the core wounds of where that was all
• 15:06
  stemming from and
• 15:07
  what that meant and the bit that I mentioned at the beginning
• 15:11
  about showing up on
• 15:12
  social media as somebody that people don't know because of
• 15:16
  course there's a
• 15:17
  projected self like you're not some people do this I don't you
• 15:21
  know you're not
• 15:21
  going to be there like you know on your saddest day or on your
• 15:25
  most unmotivated day
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: like for me I was like
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about creativity.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about the power of creativity and its impact on wellbeing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very clear on that.
• 15:34
  So if I didn't have anything to say about that,
• 15:36
  I just,
• 15:36
  I just didn't say it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 15:40
  I think that once I realised that I was locked in this palace
• 15:44
  around rejection and
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: that anthology was born and I needed some time off that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 15:50
  I thought I was writing a memoir about my own rejection stories
• 15:54
  and I was like,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: this is the most painful thing I've ever experienced.
• 15:58
  And now I'm re-traumatising myself every time I write about it,
• 16:01
  you know,
• 16:01
  like...
• 16:02
  over and over again you know from my dad leaving when I was
• 16:05
  four years old to like
• 16:06
  all sorts of other things that went on in my life then the core
• 16:09
  theme of it all was
• 16:11
  rejection I was like I'm just going to choose a different story
• 16:14
  now actually like
• 16:15
  I'm just done with that um and so what was interesting at the
• 16:20
  same time because
• 16:21
  life always imitates art and vice versa is what was going on
• 16:24
  withSubstack was I was
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: having this big moment with theSubstack book so
• 16:28
  Russell Noelty and I published the very first Substack book in
• 16:32
  2024.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like we were the most overexposed.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like Russell didn't because he's more used to it than me.
• 16:39
  But I was like,
• 16:40
  oh,
• 16:41
  like every day I would wake up and it was a Kickstarter
• 16:43
  campaign.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was about six weeks long.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So every day my job was to promote the book and my job was to like,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:49
  be interviewed about the book and do a note about the book and
• 16:51
  write about.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, so it was in all of that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I had some personal stuff going on in the background.
• 16:58
  with a neighbor and I was like this is literally tearing me
• 17:03
  apart like I have to
• 17:04
  show up for the book because I believe in the art of the book
• 17:07
  and I want more
• 17:07
  people to start sub stacks and be able to understand it all but
• 17:11
  internally like
• 17:12
  this face doesn't want to smile on camera like I'm crushed like
• 17:16
  I don't know what
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: to do about this
• 17:18
  So I think because I had to hold the juxtaposition of my
• 17:22
  personal brand self,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had to,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: it was my job,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then what was actually going on like in this room in my feelings,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: because this is the room I work in,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: but it's also the street that I live on.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like this alchemy of like, oh, well, I've done it now.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can do anything.
• 17:38
  So from that,
• 17:39
  it didn't really matter like anything else that anyone said
• 17:42
  that's negative or
• 17:44
  or difficult I've been like okay like what is my position in
• 17:48
  this like do I take
• 17:49
  this on do I have something to say about it in a public forum
• 17:53
  do I just need to
• 17:54
  moan or cry with my husband you know what energy is it asking
• 17:58
  of me because for the
• 17:59
  most part the internet's just quite noisy and you know it's not
• 18:04
  we don't need to
• 18:04
  take any of that on I think is what I'm saying once we've done
• 18:07
  the work to arrive
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: at like I'm here to do this with these people and right in this way
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: everything else can just blend into the background from the noise.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds really simplistic.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this was complicated to figure out.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in therapy for 18 months as well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I had that as an anchor.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: But now I'm like, Oh, yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes a little sense.
• 18:31
  And I had this conversation recently,
• 18:33
  I host a membership is called the Soulful Biz Club.
• 18:36
  And we had this conversation about,
• 18:38
  you know,
• 18:39
  criticism in general,
• 18:40
  or people
• 18:42
  rejecting you or being sometimes you know leaving comments
• 18:46
  you're wondering why did
• 18:47
  you even bother yeah to leave that kind of comment like don't
• 18:50
  you have better
• 18:51
  things to do than to just be this passive aggressive or
• 18:55
  sarcastic or whatever um
• 18:58
  and we had this conversation uh with them and I also spoke with
• 19:01
  my husband my
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: husband is um a comic book artist and author and
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's a bit more in the limelight, of course, a bit more.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's quite more in the limelight than I am, of course.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But this conversation with him was interesting as well.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I compared that with him and with the people in my group.
• 19:18
  And we're saying,
• 19:19
  you know,
• 19:19
  it's like quite like we were saying,
• 19:24
  you have this personal brand.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you are the one leading your business.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: You are the one, you know, you pour your heart out.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: You speak from an honest place.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's all very authentic.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also at some point,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: we need to make the difference between,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: this is what your job is and maybe the rest is not your job.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And this is who you are or what you show.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the rest doesn't really matter.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this question,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: this image of Beyonce,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: who also has fear and self-doubt and days where she doesn't feel like it.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: But her job is to show up.
• 20:03
  and to give people a good time with the best that she can do in
• 20:06
  that day and she
• 20:08
  was sharing in an interview that she has like Beyonce's like a
• 20:11
  persona somehow
• 20:12
  that's like she's she's doing that I don't feel good today I
• 20:15
  want to cry and I will
• 20:17
  cry later I will give myself space for that but there's this
• 20:21
  person who has to show
• 20:22
  up and do the job and it's not here to promote dishonesty or
• 20:27
  not being authentic or
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: whatever but also that we can make a difference between what's
• 20:32
  what we show publicly you know or if that person that public
• 20:37
  person was attacked
• 20:40
  not the real me if that makes sense yeah yeah exactly it's it's
• 20:45
  all a mirage really
• 20:47
  because there's so much projection in people's minds about who
• 20:50
  you are and you know
• 20:51
  I've met quite a lot of my lovely um Substack members they've
• 20:55
  become friends you
• 20:56
  know I've stayed at people's houses we've had long lunches
• 20:58
  we've had coffees and
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: stuff like that like
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: the parasocial becomes real for sure, like when we exchange energy.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But up until that point, we don't really know who someone is.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 21:09
  we've just got an idea and we've pieced towards all of these
• 21:12
  different things that
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: they've said together.
• 21:13
  And I think a lot of that and immersing myself in understanding
• 21:18
  the parasocial and
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: how I feel about my relationship with other people online,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: whether I feel
• 21:24
  connection whether I feel a disconnect like all of that is us
• 21:28
  figuring it out in
• 21:29
  real time isn't it because it's a lot and you know I talk about
• 21:32
  this a lot because
• 21:33
  we you know with Beyonce for example I've been subscribed to
• 21:37
  her subscribed for a
• 21:38
  long long time right so like I've got this idea that I know who
• 21:42
  she is but I don't
• 21:43
  know who she is like I've seen her perform multiple times I've
• 21:46
  read interviews I've
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: seen her socials pop up or whatever
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is a really interesting thing.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I talk about is physically stepping into the frame.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: to go back to your question about rituals,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'll put my hand cream on,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll put my lip gloss on,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll clean my glasses if there's time and then we're in,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on.
• 22:06
  So up until that point though,
• 22:08
  like I'm not on and I'm not in,
• 22:10
  I'm just me.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think it helps and it's not performantry.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't think it is.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's that piece of,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be okay.
• 22:20
  Like I've been on Substack Lives and there's been all sorts
• 22:22
  going on in the
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: comments.
• 22:25
  Sometimes I don't post those replays because I don't want that
• 22:29
  recording of me
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: processing in real time.
• 22:31
  I'm happy for those people who were there to be there,
• 22:36
  but I just don't want that legacy piece.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a really interesting way with things,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: because the video piece of us,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: us reacting in real time is,
• 22:47
  is still a little bit overexposing if I'm honest at times
• 22:50
  whereas the writing piece
• 22:52
  and people commenting or some everyone's having a different
• 22:55
  reading experience but
• 22:56
  you know someone comments and you're like oh that's not at all
• 22:58
  what I meant but
• 22:59
  okay then or that's not at all what I meant delete you know
• 23:02
  whatever you want to do
• 23:04
  is more gentle softer whereas this space is like oh wow you
• 23:09
  know yeah yeah yeah
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: there's not there's no edit part yeah no let me freeze it
• 23:15
  and let people listen yeah I think it's so interesting because
• 23:18
  you know part of I
• 23:20
  want to say two things you talk about projections and it
• 23:23
  happens also in real life
• 23:25
  you know relationships that you believe you understand someone
• 23:29
  but how much of
• 23:30
  someone do you really get and I think that's the answer we'll
• 23:32
  get at the end of our
• 23:34
  lives with our longest relationships you know I've been married
• 23:37
  15 years now and I
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: think I have a good pretty good image of who my husband is yeah
• 23:44
  but I change and he changes and my perception changes and I
• 23:49
  heal stuff and I have
• 23:51
  other experiences that make me look at him in a different way
• 23:53
  so even there like
• 23:55
  how much of him do I know and how much of him do I actually
• 23:58
  project so that's the
• 23:59
  first thing and of course I forgot the second thing no I get I
• 24:05
  do get that though I
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: mean me and my husband have been together 12 years and um
• 24:10
  you know we met at yoga class and it was a particular modality
• 24:13
  of yoga called
• 24:14
  forest yoga which is a lot about the deep work um so the the
• 24:19
  founder anna forest
• 24:21
  her slogan is evolve or die so there's definitely been that
• 24:25
  through line yeah right
• 24:26
  so it's like there's definitely been that through line in both
• 24:30
  of our journeys um
• 24:33
  offline but then there's this really interesting place online
• 24:36
  where because you've
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: done the healing work and because you have
• 24:40
  stood in it all and gone right like what am I here to do like
• 24:43
  what feels important
• 24:45
  you know neither of us are asleep but that comes with its
• 24:48
  challenges as well when
• 24:49
  you're both sort of waking up constantly and peeling back the
• 24:52
  layers and figuring
• 24:53
  out and then obviously add kids in the mix and my goodness like
• 24:56
  I feel like both of
• 24:57
  my children are my biggest teachers but my daughter has
• 24:59
  literally like blown all
• 25:01
  the doors off everything that I knew about myself like my son
• 25:05
  too are their friends
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: in some
• 25:08
  pals they were pals in the stars before they came down maybe
• 25:11
  yeah and they both i mean i get it
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 25:16
  I do know this a lot about the energetics around pandemic
• 25:18
  babies now pandemic
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: reception kids at school,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: so we are in it together.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: But like, wow, yeah, it's been big.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's been big.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: because now I remember the second part of what I wanted to say,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: which we don't really get to do when something is recorded,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: for instance,
• 25:36
  is that in a relationship in a conversation that you have with
• 25:38
  someone that is not
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: being recorded,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: not being broadcast.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: You say things in a certain way that are clear to you because,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: we are this inner perception of what we're saying.
• 25:48
  And then sometimes they're not perceived correctly by your
• 25:51
  friends,
• 25:51
  by the people around you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then they say, what do you mean?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we get to correct it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: We get to say, oh, no, that's not what I meant.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I meant this.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But when you have this kind of conversations,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: lives,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: and then people just,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: she said that.
• 26:04
  And then as the judgment comes,
• 26:06
  instead of,
• 26:07
  you know,
• 26:07
  we don't have the space,
• 26:08
  right?
• 26:08
  to always reframe and rephrase and correct our points of view
• 26:13
  or correct the
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: communication of it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you were saying earlier,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: the overexposure of it all,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that we're meant to be overexposed in this way.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's
• 26:24
  feels so good as well to be able to just show up and share
• 26:26
  something with people so
• 26:28
  it's a balance to find right yeah and if we were meeting for
• 26:31
  the first time for
• 26:32
  coffee and it wasn't being recorded and it wasn't live on
• 26:35
  Substack this wouldn't be
• 26:36
  the conversation would it it would be yeah it's like i just
• 26:42
  love that this is the
• 26:43
  first time we're meeting and our first conversation i just
• 26:45
  think it's so fun yeah
• 26:47
  yes yes it is differently uh definitely i just was reading my
• 26:51
  question like
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: differently i
• 26:53
  so sexy definitely um I think I'll just um ask you maybe one
• 26:58
  more question um if
• 27:01
  you were to imagine this uh sensitive woman at the beginning of
• 27:05
  a business journey
• 27:06
  maybe she's on steps like maybe she's not but what would you
• 27:09
  tell her as a as a
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: encouragement to to do it her way I guess but what would you tell her
• 27:18
  So I spent a long time honing what it was that I actually
• 27:22
  wanted to say offline so
• 27:24
  in notebooks you know a lot of a lot a lot of journaling
• 27:28
  blogging you know a little
• 27:30
  bit but without an audience Instagram like my hands would seize
• 27:34
  up I was holding
• 27:35
  that phone for so long to try and get the thing out that I
• 27:39
  wanted to say so I think
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's just about
• 27:43
  Really deepening your creative practice and unleashing what has
• 27:46
  been locked down.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that might be through watercolour, stitching, journaling.
• 27:51
  I like to use Sharpies and A3 paper a lot now,
• 27:54
  and I've done that for a long time.
• 27:56
  whatever feels good to use as a tool and just getting into that
• 27:59
  flow state because
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: then the nuggets and the essence comes out much easier.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if we are writing,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: say,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: inside of Substack,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: energetically,
• 28:09
  we always know that that's probably going to end up out in the
• 28:12
  world or maybe it
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: ends up too tangled up and it's a forever draft,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: but it changes the energy.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if we're writing in a journal that is private to us,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: something different can happen, something different can alchemize.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be that,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: there's pages and pages of journal work,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: but then you get one piece that you want to run with,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: like one golden thread to run with.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also think conversations within your comfort zone.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's not a Substack Live,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: like co-working,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: meeting people for coffee,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: like talking about what you do,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: what you want to do,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: like what you're passionate about.
• 28:45
  Oftentimes,
• 28:46
  you know,
• 28:47
  the first mentor-mentee relationships that I had were with
• 28:50
  women who were
• 28:51
  highly creative but trying to work out where they fit like
• 28:56
  where do I fit and I
• 28:58
  just don't think that's an issue like I don't think it's about
• 29:01
  fitting a niche in
• 29:03
  like it was a lot of niche talk on Instagram you know back when
• 29:05
  I was trying to
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: make it over there and
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: you get to be the fully expressed version of yourself,
• 29:13
  especially if you're committing to doing something like this
• 29:15
  for the rest of your
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: lifetime.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: we don't know what that looks like,
• 29:18
  but I do think there is this fully expressed part of us that
• 29:23
  needs to just feel
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: safe.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there might be some generational healing in that.
• 29:27
  There might be some sort of solidarity with sisterhood and
• 29:31
  other women doing the
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: work and like being in spaces like Sparkle on Substack or your space,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Jessica,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: because I think that in those spaces,
• 29:39
  what our brain shows us and tells us is i'm safe to do this
• 29:42
  work and i think for a
• 29:43
  lot of highly sensitive women or women that identify as
• 29:47
  neurodivergent or women who
• 29:48
  are like that sounds a bit like me but i'm not sure and do i
• 29:51
  need a diagnosis or do
• 29:52
  i need to like identify with all of these pieces it is just
• 29:56
  that piece of coming
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: home to yourself outside of what society and capitalism expects
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for for sharing that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to bring this to a close.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a bit more about your membership?
• 30:11
  So if people are watching this,
• 30:13
  I want to join you that know what to expect.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a paid newsletter on Substack.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've had that from the jump.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So from 2022.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the behind the scenes of my business.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I call that creatively conscious because that's the name of my business.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also my intention with everything.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one space and that's just writing.
• 30:31
  We did do a little workshop get together at the start of the
• 30:33
  year,
• 30:33
  but that's not typical.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just wanted to hold space because we were on...
• 30:37
  the dawn of a new year and then sparkle and Substack is my
• 30:41
  Substack education space
• 30:42
  and over the years it's really evolved and shifted into being
• 30:46
  this beautifully
• 30:47
  supportive community mainly women mainly people who are
• 30:51
  kindling the voice and
• 30:52
  running with something that feels exciting and special looking
• 30:56
  to collaborate with
• 30:56
  other people looking to understand Substack tech but also what
• 31:01
  works strategically
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: um
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so we meet twice a month, workshops, calls, guest workshops.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: We just had Jo Hutton in last week,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: which was amazing about visibility and her strategy with all of that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love doing the work.
• 31:15
  It's not everything that I do,
• 31:16
  but it's a big chunk of everything that I do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you can pop on over.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's free articles every single week.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I publish on a Wednesday.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if you do want to join the community, you'd be so welcome.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you still offer mentorship?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like if someone wants to have like one-to-one advice on how to...
• 31:33
  yeah yeah so I have basically like everything this will be so
• 31:37
  interesting to you
• 31:38
  but everything within my business suite like I made it all like
• 31:41
  it won't be
• 31:42
  surprising because of my experimental nature but there's
• 31:45
  classes there's courses
• 31:47
  there's one-to-one work um there's various different containers
• 31:51
  that I feel like
• 31:53
  take people on a journey from basically the person that I was
• 31:56
  and the people that I
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: was working with
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Back in about 2017 to now.
• 32:01
  So my vision was to create this like 10 year legacy of work
• 32:05
  where people could jump
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: in at any level.
• 32:07
  You know,
• 32:07
  there's free classes,
• 32:08
  there's YouTube videos,
• 32:10
  all of that good stuff.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then there are these places to go deeper.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, courses and live programs and one to ones and all that, too.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll put this in an article or something.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's my first live.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we can do that.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's great.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: We get a draft and then we can edit the draft.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you close,
• 32:28
  just make sure that you save it to drafts and then you can do
• 32:31
  all the edits that
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: you want.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, it posts it or emails it out.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that tip.
• 32:37
  so you'll be able to to give me the links that you or the
• 32:40
  things that you do yeah
• 32:43
  lovely okay well thank you so much for your time and your
• 32:47
  lovely energy claire it's
• 32:48
  been really a pleasure to to have you here and maybe we'll get
• 32:54
  to do it again
• 32:54
  sometime i am so happy and proud to say this is my first live
• 32:59
  onSubstack and i got
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: to do it with claire venus like wow
• 33:04
  well i'm glad that you did it as well because hopefully now you
• 33:07
  see how easy it is
• 33:09
  and the technology has just sort of faded into the ether and
• 33:12
  you're like okay this
• 33:13
  is how we do a live yeah sounds really good thank you so much
• 33:17
  have a lovely
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: afternoon you too take care take care as well bye everyone