Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E13 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 9

Transcript

S6 E13 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 9 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and Wine Time. I'm Terry and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Lama. Tonight we are uncorking the truth one of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of wine. It's taking a job. It's time to get
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: comfortable and double check those rocks before we just started,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in. Hello, beautiful people,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and welcome to True Crime and Wine Time. I'm Terry,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: True Crime and it's just me tonight. There is no
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Lama again tonight because beautiful little Lama is still not
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: doing very well, so I told her she needs to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: just rest, so you're stuck with me tonight. Okay, Now,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: before we begin, if you're watching us on YouTube, please
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• 1:19
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  Speaker 1: works for best, works best for you. Our lowest tier
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  Speaker 1: starts at just ninety nine cents. And guys, I'm warned
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you if I make weird faces, it's not y'all. It
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: might be the story, or it might be a stone
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: thinking it's knocking on my doors. I don't know what
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: it is, but we're just gonna act like it's not there. Okay,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Now tonight if you've just somehow randomly stumbled upon us,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Tonight is part nine of our Frozen Fear the Butcher
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Baker of Alaska series, where I'm not even sure we
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: can say we're diving deep, because we are. Whatever's worse
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: than diving deep, that's what we're doing. We have gone
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: all down the rabbit holes, okay, into the infamous serial
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: killer Robert Hansen, his endless number of victims who we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: refuse to be forgotten. And guys, how it all could
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: have been stopped numerous times? Okay, the state of Alaska
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: has a lot of blood on their hands, and we're
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: here to shine a light on all of it, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: warning if you're new here, there's gonna be a lots
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: of rants, okay and cursey words. That's it, Lady in Gray,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: We're in the abyss. I knew there was, so guys,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: we might have to think of a new name for
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a friend that feels like it's wanting to do some damage.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to try not to move too much
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and drink a lot of wine. I guess it's a
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: good thing. I am having a nice large glass of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Bodo Box Rose and they say it's a refreshing, delicately
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: pink wine that offers crisp, dry, perfectly ripe flavors of
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: raspberry while strawberries and grapefruit zest. And guys, I've already
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: drank like four or five SIPs. I have to tell
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: you this isn't bad. Double H bought it, and I'm like,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: this could be a problem because I think he said
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: it was like twenty dollars for the box, and I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: could drink this box really eazy, especially tonight, especially tonight.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Hello Teresia, Hello Lady in Gray, Hello Pam. Guys, Tonight
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the slide show will be perfect because they're not letting
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: me run it. Fabulous. Amos is in the background handling
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that since my mouse doesn't like to cooperate with me,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Pam says, drink it like kool light. Oh, I have
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: a feeling I'm going to be texting double h and say,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: could you just bring the whole box because oh, back
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: started hurting right as we were getting ready to go on. Oh,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: there is our beautiful, lovely Lama Lama. I hope you
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: feel better. But girl, as I was talking to Miss
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Amos as we were preparing to go live, back started
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: hurting kidneys, and I think we might be coming up
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: with another name of something. Hello eighties man. Hello, mister
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Craig Lackey. Mister Lackey, you and I need to talk tomorrow.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: You are on my to do list right here. You're
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: like ten or eleven down because we got to talk.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So if you don't hear from me by about two tomorrow,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: call me. Okay. Now, guys, we're going to get into
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: tonight's case. Okay, And like I said, I'm not gonna
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: apologize for the rants and the cursy words because I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: hate Alaska. I hate everything about Alaska everything. Okay. Now
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: we have finally made it full circle to the escape
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: of Cindy Paulson on June thirteenth, nineteen eighty three. Now,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: we're not going to rehash all of the details from
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: episode one, though I do recommend going back and listening
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to it knowing what all you know. Now, trust me, guys.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I even went back and listened to it today when
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I was driving home from the office, because little things
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: are going ah, yes, ah yes, it's just just trust me, okay. Now,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen eighty three, the Last Frontier
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: was holding its breath. One girl had run through the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: gravel of the sixth Avenue in handcuffs, screaming a truth
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that the Anchorage Police Department wasn't ready to hear. But
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: as the sirens faded in the initial adrenaline fizzled, a new,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: quieter kind of terror set in the realization that the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: monster was still at home, still baking bread, and still
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: free because Alaska law enforcement sucks. After the handsoen escape,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I felt oddly at odds with the world, if that
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: makes sense, Okay, Like I was starting over with nothing,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: well not exactly nothing. I still had my life, and hey,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I wasn't the first eighteen year old to wonder what's next.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I'd long ago watch my sisters walk the plank, graduate
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: high school, get married, move out, have kids. But that
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: was not my fate and not the priority of the day.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Cindy Paulson, Guys, let that sit. Why should an eighteen
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: year old ever have to say those words? The fact
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: that she escaped, she is a hero, but that is
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: just horrific to think about. Following her harrowing escape from
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen's basement dungeon, Cindy Paulsen stood at a crossroads
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: built of trauma and institutional neglect. Her most urgent question
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't about justice, but survival. Should she stay or should
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: she go? Not the song, guys. The impulse to flee
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: was strengthened by anchorage investigators that met her terror with
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the wall of skepticism. They didn't see a survivor. They
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: saw an unreliable girl from the streets. Going so far
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: is to cast doubt on her meticulous second by second
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: account of the night she nearly died. Guys, So I said,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: you need to go back and listen. She brought them
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the receipts, as we like to say in today's times,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: She showed up and she was right, with no allies
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: in the precinct. Cindy saw no reason to remain a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: target in a city that refused to protect her. The
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: choice was clear. It was time to head back to
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the Lower forty eight, to the familiar reign of the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest and the anonymity of life beyond the Alaskan border.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: At the time, she couldn't have known that that very
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: nightmare she was fleeing would eventually force her back to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the ice. But when you live on the margins of society,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: you don't always have the luxury of looking towards the horizon.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: You simply moved towards the next safe The move south
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: was decided when Nate, Cindy's pimp, decided he too wanted out.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Nate was a young, slender, medium skinned black man, described
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: as handsome with wavy, stylish hair, but in the eyes
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: of the Anchorage Police Department in nineteen eighty three, his
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: appearance didn't buy him any grays. The constant cop talk
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and the mounting pressure of the investigation were wearing him down.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: With an existing police record and an FBI identification number
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: already attached to his name, Nate knew that staying in
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the crosshairs of a high profile kidnapping case was a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: losing game. He didn't need this mess, and he certainly
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: didn't trust the system to protect him or Cindy. Ooh, guys,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a man because it has been a pain. Oh.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Because Nate was originally from Portland, Oregon, that became their sanctuary.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: They headed for the Albina neighborhood, where Nate's mother lived.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: When they arrived, Cindy found herself seeking a level of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: security that Nate simply couldn't provide, so she retreated into
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the most basic form of human contact when we go.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: When we got to Portland, at first, I went and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: stayed at Nate's mom's house. I slept in her bed
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: with her. I was freaked out. Yeah, I had to sleep,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: just sleep. I was just freaking So I just slept
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: in bed with her, and I'm having all sorts of thoughts.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: They were dark thoughts. I'm thinking, what kind of man
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: couldn't protect me? Nate didn't do nothing, he couldn't protect me.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm damaged, said Cindy. Oh, w missus,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: we should name the stone. That's good. Oh, it's definitely hurting. Okay,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it's hurting for a seventeen year old who had just
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: survived a museum of death. There is the realization of
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: her own vulnerability was crushing, and the hierarchy of the streets,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the unspoken contract its protection in exchange for loyalty. But
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Cindy laid in bed with Nate's mother, the reality of
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: her situation set in. Nate had been nervous, He was
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: worried about himself in his own FBI file. He hadn't
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: been the shield she needed when Robert Hansen pointed a
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: long barreled revolver at her face. The dark thoughts Cindy
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: described weren't just about the man who had heard her.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: They were about the man who was supposed to keep
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: her safe and the system that had called her a liar.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: She felt damaged, a common and heartbreaking sentiment for survivors
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of such extreme trauma, especially when the authorities reinforce that
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: feeling by dismissing their testimony. Nate sucks, Alaska sucks, Handsome sucks.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: All of them suck. Okay, they just also in Portland.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Cindy entered a period of exhaustion. She slept because her
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: mind could no longer process. The freak out of the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: previous weeks. The relative piece of the Albina neighborhood was
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: short lived. In the world Cindy and Nate inhabited, safety
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: was a luxury that required capital, and in Portland the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: capital was running dry. It wasn't long before the dark
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: thoughts in Nate's mother's bed were interrupted by a conversation.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Cindy knew all too well Nate was running out of money,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and he expected her to solve that problem. Why because
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: he's a piece of shit and he doesn't know how
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to get off his ass and get a job. Sorry, Nate,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you need to get a damn job. The solution was
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the track, the Neonlitz Circuit, where men circled in their
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: cars looking for a transaction. In Portland, this usually meant
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: quick encounters in vehicles or a room at a budget
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: spot like the Knickerbocker Motel. Okay, guys, I like the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: name Knickerbocker, a place Cindy had used for Liason's long
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: before she ever met Nate. But the luck that had
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: carried her across the gravel back at Merylfield didn't follow
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: her to organ Within days of hitting the streets. The
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: break broken seventeen year old was back in the system.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I got busted, and Nate has to bel me out.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I think he put up his fur coat as part
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of my bail money. Then I got busted again right
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: away because they're onto me. You know. I don't know
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: if I was the number one person or what, but
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I got busted twice in just a few days, and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I had to go. I couldn't stand to go to court.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I couldn't pay the fines, and I don't really belong
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: out there in the first place, not in my state
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: of mind, said Cindy. Guys, I just want to wrap
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: my arms around Cindy and give her the biggest hug
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and cover her with pink of sparkles. Okay, While Cindy
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: was trying to find a foothold and they all buying
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a neighborhood back in Anchorage, the local peace police were busy. Well,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know what they were doing, because they weren't
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: exactly hunting for a killer. They were looking for a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: reason to close the book on a troublesome case. Investigator
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Bill Dennis of the APD return to the Big Timber Motel,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Cindy's last known address. She and Nate had vanished on
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: June eighteenth, just five days after the escape, but they
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: had left behind a digital footprint and an analog age
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a large phone bill. For those of you that are
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: young ones, we used to have those, okay, like they
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: were massive. Investigator Dennis trace the calls to a specific
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: number in downtown Portland. It belonged to the sixth Avenue Motel.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: The irony I know right a place at mirror the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Big Timber, situated on a main thoroughfare right in the
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: thick of the action. It was a reminder that while
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: people in the life may change their zip code, their
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: pattern remains the same. On June twenty fourth, nineteen eighty three,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the Cross Country Investigation bore fruit. Detective Trumur of the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Portland Vice Squad returned Dennis's call with the breakthrough. He
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: hadn't found the Sidney Paulson, but he had arrested a
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: young woman named Felicia Lee Redman for soliciting. Approximately two
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: hours later. In Investigator Dennis wrote, Trumor told me that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Paulson's real name was Felicia Lee Redman and that she
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: had been arrested on June twenty fourth, nineteen eighty three
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: for soliciting for prostitution. He said he would send me
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a photograph of her so I could confirm that this
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: was the same person. When the color photograph in wrap
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: sheet arrived in Anchorage on July first, the connection was undeniable.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: The girl who had survived the butcher Baker was the
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: same girl now sitting in an Oregon jail cell. For
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: investigator Dennis. This was the ultimate exit strategy for the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: case as whole. The official police report from July first,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three delivered the final blow to the investigation.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Since she had been arrested in Portland on prostitution charges
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: on June twenty fourth, nineteen eighty three, she was no
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: longer missing and apparently in good health, no other feather
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: action was deemed necessary. What piece of shit? What? She
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: survived a brutal attack, and you're not gonna do anything.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I think I'm naming this Kidney Stone Trumer, okay, I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: or Dennis Dennis, Dennis, that's it. Stone's named after you
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: because I hate you as much as I hate the stone.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: It was a staggering dismissal because Cindy had returned the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: streets to survive. The system decided she was no longer
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: a victim worth protecting. To the APD, the case wasn't
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: about a serial predator anymore. It was about a prostitution
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: who was in good health. Oh, I so wish Lama
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: was a cross from me because on the screen, because
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I can just hear and see the eye rolls. Because
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: what the actual hell, sir? The confusion over her name
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: didn't stop with Felicia. Depending on which file you opened,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: she was Cindy, Felicia, Alicia, or even Stacy Lee Rogers.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It isn't difficult to understand why Cindy lived behind a
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: wall of alias's, just as many others did it as well.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: She was underage, guys. Remember she was seventeen when Hansen
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: attacked her. So she's under age. She was a sex worker,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and she was constantly operating in the shadows of anchorages,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: after hours clubs. In her world, Giving your a real
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: name to a cop was a tactical error. Her true
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: identity was buried deep, something she protected because she had
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: so little else left to call her own. Oh my goodness,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I just yes, Betty Ross. They don't address the murdy
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: or I don't know why I would think I would
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: have learned by now, You would think I would have learned.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I expect to ask Alaska to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: get their head out of their ass. I should know.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: But facing mounting fines in court dage, she had no
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: intention of keeping. Cindy became a liability. Nate's protection had
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: already proven this an anchorage in Portland, it turned transactional.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: He didn't want a damaged partner. He wanted a producer exactly.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Lady and Grace, she was also kidnapped, and she gave
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you all of the information. She basically let you to
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: his front door. They didn't have to do that that
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: much work, okay, Terry. So Nate goes out and he
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: gambles him and his friend. They got the money together
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and they shipped me back to Alaska, and Nate says,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: just send just send me the money. You know, basically
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: he wanted to get rid of me. In hindsight, that's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: what it was. You know what I mean, this pimpin
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and Hoen is this cold ass business, that's for sure,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: said Cindy as her plane touched back down and Anchorage,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Cindy Paulsen was alone again. It was a cold ass business. Indeed,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: with her case officially put to bed by investigator Dick
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: wad Dennis, Cindy Paulson became a ghost in the system.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: The police stopped looking for her, which provided a strange,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: dark bonus of being able to slink back into Alaska
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: on the slide. She wasn't ready for a high profile
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: return to the Anchorage scene, but with Nate waiting in
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Portland for his cut, she had no choice but to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: head back to the only place she knew how to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: make a living. Sindy was back on the street, working
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to survive while feeding a man who had already washed
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: his hands of her. Nate, You're just as bad as Alaska, sir. Okay.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So what happened was I get back to Anchorage and
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I'm working. The girls are taking care of me. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: would just keep going out and doing, you know, getting
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a little money. I don't think I was making five night.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I had to pay my motel rent, and then Nate
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: would want me to send him money, so I was
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: just sending him money down to him. The isolation was profound.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: She was a seventeen year old survivor of a serial predator,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: paying motel rent and wiring her earnings to a man
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: who had traded her safety for a one way ticket
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and a gambling debt. Nate's definitely not a winner. Okay, guys,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Sorry guys. I'm trying not to drink too fast, but
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to numb Dennis. The turning point came not
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: from the police or the courts, but from the woman
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: who actually ran the avenue. Cindy eventually crossed paths with
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: John and Morgan, a couple who ran an after our
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: spot called Kitties. Morgan, a savvy New Yorker who viewed
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the slow pace of Alaska as a gold mine, saw
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: through Cindy's exhaustion immediately I agree with Lama hashtag Nate sucks.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yes he does. When Morgan asked why she was alone
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and scared to date, Cindy finally admitted the truth Nate
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: had sent her back by herself. Morgan's response was blunt
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and I love this. Fuck that girl. What have you
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: been through? Yes? Good job. Morgan became the mentor Cindy
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: never had. She had been around the block more than
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: a few times, and she understood the mechanics of survival
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: better than anyone. She taught Cindy the essential art of
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the holdout, how to fold her money just right, how
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to give her pimp some but never all, and how
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: to maintain a shred of anonymity or autonomy and a
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: cold ass business. But the trauma of the basement still lingered.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Sidney was terrified of the stage, unable to imagine herself
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: back in the spotlight after being chained in the dark. Cindy,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: my heart, you are just oh my goodness girl. And
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I trusted her. I tucked up under her wing and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: she said, well, come to Kitties and try to dance.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, I couldn't do it. So she got
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: me drunk off to quila and let me get up
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: there because I had a rhythm. So then she got
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: me into it, and that's where it led from there.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I stopped sending money down to Nate, said, Cindy, you
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: go girl. With that final decision to stop the money
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: flow to Portland, Cindy cut the last tie to her past.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: She was no longer Felicia Redman, the unreliable girl in
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a Portland jail cell. She was Cindy again, finding her
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: rhythm at Kitty's, tucked under her wing of a new
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: York pro She thought she was finally safe, hidden in
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the slow paced neon of the Anchorage clubs. Oh my goodness,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the trauma, the bouncing back seeking security, that just the
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: case closed stamp from the sexual assault unit on Sydney.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Paulson's case was supposed to be the end of the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: line for a Robert Hansen brush with the law. But
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Predator hadn't accounted for a single patrol officer who refused
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to look away, an officer I will never be naming
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: a stone after. Okay, Officer Greg Baker was a true
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: hero of the force. He was one of the first
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: on the scene at the Big Timber Motel, and he
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: was the one who saw the raw hysteria of a
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: survivor in Cindy Paulson. Unlike his superiors, Officer Baker knew
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: what real terror looked like. He had seen the way
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Cindy shook, the way she described the Museum of Death,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and the way she froze when she thought she saw
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: his Piper super Cub take off from Merylfield two. Officer Baker.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Hanson's Meek Baker act wasn't just a defense, It was
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: a lie. The path that led Anchorage authorities to finally
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: suspect Robert Hanson of serial murder was a grueling slog.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Officer Baker had met the escapee and he believed her
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: with every professional instinct he possessed, but his superiors at
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the APD shut him down because they're assholes. They looked
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at the surface. Hanson had two alibis, He had a wife,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: he had two children, and that means anything, sirs. He was,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: from all appearances, a devout church going man who owned
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: a successful local bakery. This kind of behavior, the veteran
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: investorators assured each other, simply was not part of Hanson's world.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: They just poo pooed away. Oh my god, these people
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: just make me so mad. Oh. Dissatisfied with the outcome
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: and haunted by Cindy's eyes, Detective Baker began his own research.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Or Officer Baker, he didn't just accept the meek Bob persona.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: He dug into the archives. What he discovered was a
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: man whose world actually included a long, dark history of
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: disturbing encounters with women. Yeah, you heard me. He found
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: records of hands and putting women in restraints, of previous
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: allegations of rape and kidnapping, the very things Cindy had described.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Realizing that his own own department was blinded by the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Baker's social standing, Officer Baker made a move that could
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: have cost him his badge. Reflexively and with a sense
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: of urgent justice, he bypassed the chain of command. You
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: did the right thing. He gathered a bundle of these
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: court records, the proof of a predator's history, and he
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: turned them over to the Alaska State Troopers. This quiet
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: act of defiance by a patrol officer changed the course
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: of Alaskan history. Guys, we need more people like Officer Baker. Okay,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: we need more people like Kim, while working at Kitties City,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: warned her friends about the man in the metallic green buick.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: She knew that as long as Robert Hansen was free,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: every one on the strip was standing in her place.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I told everybody the motherfucker was a killer. That's one
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of the reasons I started dancing at Kitties. We knew
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Hansen wouldn't come in here. Even if he did, what
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: were the chances of me being there? One in a million?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: She had reason to hope for a sanctuary. Kitties was
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: not a prime spot on anybody's radar. It was a
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: place of slow nights in quiet corners, far from the
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: high traffic neon of the Bush Company or the Wild
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Cherry guys. It makes me think of the Chicken Ranch
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: when I was reading this, and it just popped in
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: my head again. And if you don't know what the
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Chicken Ranch is, we definitely need to educate you. Now.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: She believed Hansome would never be among their guests, and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: then the one in a million moment happened. Guys, think
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: about that for a second. It happened. He came in
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the kiddies and then boom, there he was. I was
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: dancing and I seen him. I said, oh, look, there
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: he is. There he is, and they all seen him.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Everybody's seen him. I told John and the bouncers, that's
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: the guy right there. They went after him. He tore
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the hell out of there. That's when I knew there
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: was a little demon inside him, always trying to get out,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a moth to a flame that he couldn't shake. Hanson's
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: presence at Kitty's wasn't just a coincidence. It was a
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: chilling display of his arrogance. He wasn't hiding, he was
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: returning to the scene of his failure, drawn back to
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: the very woman who had escaped him. When the bouncers moved,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Hanson didn't stand his ground as a respectable businessman. Instead,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: he fled, showing the frantic concern nature of the predator
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: beneath the mask. Yeah. For Cindy, seeing him there confirmed
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: her darkest, suspicious suspicion. The system wasn't just failing her,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: it was shielding him to her. Hansome's freedom meant he
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: was being protected by the very cops who were supposed
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: to be her shield. All right, guys, the authorities had
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: pick sides. On one side was the church going Baker
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: with the upstanding friends, and I roll my eyes at that,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and the stable business. On the other, we're the avenue girls,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: the dancers, the runaways, and the women on the margins.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: In the eyes of the Anchorage PD. In nineteen eighty three,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Cindy was on the losing side. Guys. I don't know
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: who in chat agrees with me, but I think I
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: would rather hang out with the avenue women than with
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Robert Baker's friends. Okay, because then, I'm sorry, I still
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: think that insurance guy. I don't know why I got
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: no proof, just something about him, okay something. It was
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: this realization that the monster could walk into her place
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of work and stare her down while the police called
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: her a liar that finally turned the tide. If the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: city was going to protect the demon, Cindy wasn't going
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to wait around to see who he took next. For Cindy,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: survival meant finding a layer of armor that a street
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: corner or stage could never provide. She needed a buffer,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: a new hierarchy, and a way to disappear in plain sight.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: In the shadow of the Hands and investigation, Cindy found
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: a temporary escape patch in the cities underground after our scene.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: These weren't flashy clubs. They were stripped down houses where
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the outside world and the constant threat of the Green
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Buick felt a million miles away. In Anchorage, everybody's at
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the same place, with the pimps in one room, the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: women in another. It was like a vacation. There wasn't
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: even a phone. That was like society for us, No phones,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: just conversation and a little preening. Per Cindy. It was here,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: in a house converted into a lounge, that Cindy met
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Peggy Peggy was small, curly hair, an almost kidlike in appearance.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: She worked in a massage parlor called Gentleman's Retreat. Who
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: wants to guess what kind of massage parlor that is.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking happy endings. Okay, nobody come for me.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: But and her presence planned a in Cindy's mind. If
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: dancing at Kitty's was too public and the streets were
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: death trap, perhaps the retreat was the fortress she needed.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: The move was catalyzed by the arrival of Billy Joel,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: not Billy Joel, Billy Joe, a man who looked like
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: he had been encrusted in diamonds. Okay, I like that description.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: He wasn't handsome, it was nearly sixty two hundred and
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: twenty five pounds in dripping in gold nugget rings. But
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: he held the keys to a different kind of safety.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: He offered Cindy a spot in his stable as a
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: wife in law. Now, in this complex social structure of
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the prostitute dynamic, there were two levels of hierarchy among
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the women. The top level was the bottom bitch. The
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: woman manages the household and the business in the pimp's absence,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and there then there was the wife and wife's in law.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: While technically expendable in the harsh logic of the game,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: they provided each other with a sense of family and,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: more importantly, a collective buffer against predators. Choosing Billy Joe
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: meant more than just a change of scenery. It meant
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: a brutal, necessary break. Cindy had reached her limit with
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the man who had left her for dead while she
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: was being hunted. After stacking eighteen hundred dollars, Cindy walked
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: into the gentleman's retreat and told Billy Joe she wanted
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: to choose him. The phone call that followed was the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: final nail in the coffin of her old life. Guys,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: that is some strength to walk in and tell this
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: man you choose him. I mean that is a different
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: version of I choose you, just saying not shaming her,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: but she I think she was smart. I told him
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: right then, I told him, you left me for dead.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Don't call me no more, don't talk to me, lose
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: this number. You know, kn't gravel and travel, bud. You
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: are nothing to me. Cindy told Nate, you go girl.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: For a brief window in the eighty early eighties, Cindy
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: felt a rare sensation safety. Billy Joe knew about the
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: handsome trauma, and he didn't care. He offered a roof,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a family of wives in law like Deedi and Janice,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: and a barrier between her and the man and the
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: green buick. The fact that she had to go and
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: look for safety because law enforcement failed her makes me sick.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Just say I know. She moved her life into the parlor,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: rarely leaving its walls. If the price of safety was
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the turf of the air, easy access to the cocaine
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that flooded the streets, it was a price she was
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: willing to pay to self medicate the nightmare away. She
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: stopped reading the papers, she stopped looking for the dead
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: girls that the cops kept finding. She had a new
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: father figure, a new family, and a new fortress. But
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: as Cindy hunkered down in the Gentleman's Retreat, the moth
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to a flame that was Robert Hansen was still circling
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: in the light, and the Alaska State Troopers were slowly
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: turning the city's maps into a grid that led straight
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: to her new front door. Can't go trap down, Hanson,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: but they're going to look for her right, Oh my goodness, guys.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: While Cindy Paulsen was finding a temporary sanctuary in the
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: diamond encrusted world of Billy Joe, the official search for
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: her kidnapper had become a side note and a much larger,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: bloodier lighter. In September of nineteen eighty two, when hunters
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: near the Kanik River stumbled upon the remains of Sherry Morrow,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: the discovery shifted the stakes. It was no longer about
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: missing women. It was about a recovery. Sherry had been shot,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: and he spent two twenty three caliber casing left in
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: her shallow grave provided a ballistic fingerprint for a killer
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: who used the wilderness as his kill floor. When Sergeant
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Lyle Hawksman was assigned to Marrow's Homicide in June nineteen
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: eighty three, sorry, guys, I had to send a request
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: for more wine. It didn't when he was assigned to
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: the Marrow Homicide in June nineteen eighty three, it didn't cant.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: It didn't come alone. It came as a packaged deal
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: with Cindy Paul's and kidnapping. In the grim shorthand of
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the Troopers, it was a shit sandwich and I hate
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that terminology, but it is a shit shandwich. Sorry guy.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Working alongside ABD investigator Maxine Ferrell hacketts Fin began the
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: tedious process of cross referencing names. They compiled a list
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: of about fifteen suspects, men that Avenue girls had reported
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: for strange experiences or peculiar sexual habits. Hello, you've got
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: someone who gave you all this information? Is she at
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the top of the list? Is she is? She? Is? She? Okay?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Even after Cindy's harrowing escape, Robert Hansen didn't immediately jump
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: to the top of the pile. No bells rang, no
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: light flashed to the investigators. He was just suspect number fifteen.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: He didn't make the top of the lizzies at the
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: very bottom. How how, how how he was just another
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: man with a stutter and a meek baker persona who
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: liked to play rough in a state drowning in homicides
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: a kidnapping where the victim survived was often treated as
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a distraction from the real work of finding killers. Thank you, doubleh.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Despite the overwhelming workload, Hawkis Finn had a flash of
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: intuition that would eventually break the case. He looked at
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the remote Kanik River gravesite accessible only by boat ruged
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: four by fours or plane, and he looked at Hansome
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Hugas Finn began tracking Hanson's flight flights, it was a
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: long game strategy. If they couldn't find a smoking gun,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: or perhaps they could find a flight pattern that put
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the baker in the same remote woods where the bodies
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: were dropping. Guys, I think it's a perfect opportunity to
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: remind you we already know he was in Seward at
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the time of the Seward situation. I still, I mean,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I get there wasn't computers, but do cops not talk
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: to each other? Seriously? Okay, that Lama, that's a good thing.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: How bad were the other fourteen? Because if he was
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the list, oh my, definitely don't go
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: to Alaska. If the Hansen's the bottom of the list,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: you definitely don't want to go to Alaska. But as
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen eighty three turned to fall, the
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: investigation was plagued by the revolving door of police scheduling.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: On September second, nineteen eighty three, yet another body was
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: found on the Kanik River at that exact moment. Sergeant
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Haggisfin was on a two week leave. Oh man. The
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: troopers scrambled handling the new scene to Sergeant Edward Stopper,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: a relatively green sergeant who had his own charity run scheduled.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: The killer was using the vast, unmonitored Alaska bush as
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: a weapon. While the men hunting him were hampered by
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: staffing gaps and administration bad luck. The predator stayed consistent.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, while the law was in flux, he was
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: still doing his thing. Robert Hansen was still out there,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: counting on the fact that as long as the police
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: were busy with paperwork and leave time, he could keep
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: his Piper supercup fueled and his rifle ready. You know,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Lady and Gray good point. He was at the bottom
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: because he had already been considered and they couldn't admit
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: to a mistake. Guys, I know a lot of men
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: don't like to make mistakes, especially when they're driving and
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you tell them they need a map. Law enforcement especially
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: does not like to admit mistakes. The body that was
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: found on September second, nineteen eighty three was the remains
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: of Paula Golding. Golding. I think Golding it was the
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: moment the Shits Sandwich investigation finally started to taste like
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: a lead. For Sergeant Stauber and the troopers. The coincidences
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: were evaporating, replaced by a cold, calculating pattern. Finally, finally, guys,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've said this before. Paula Goulding was
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: a missing thirty one year old dancer from Kona, Hawaii,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: who had vanished from the Bush Company back in April.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: When hunters found her remains on the Kinnik River gravel bar,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the logistics spoke louder than the evidence. The site was
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: so remote it was effectively an island, accessible only by
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: riverboat or aircraft. Of the fifteen suspect on the Howigan's list,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: only one man, Robert Hansen, had a plane. The meek
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Baker was no longer just a man with peculiar habits.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: He was the only suspect with the wings to reach
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the graveyard. The crime scene was a haunting echo of
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the year prior. Just like Sherry Morrow, Paula had been shot.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Investigators found another two twenty three shellcasing near her shallow grave.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Unlike some earlier victims, Paula was found fully clothed, suggesting
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a specific hurried ritual. Because of the advanced decomposition, troopers
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: had to rely on dental charts, a recurring nightmare for
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: investigators as many of the Avenue girls didn't have dental
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: records on file because dentists are bad too, in my opinion.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Desperate for a breakthrough, investigators began assembling computer profiles of
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: the missing dancers backgrounds. Guys, this was high tech for
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, those of us living back in that
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: time when I was thirteen, That was high tech. A
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: technique borrowed from the recent capture of Thomas Bunday, an
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: airman who had murdered five women in Fairbanks. They were
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: looking for a name, a car, or a date that
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: popped up repeatedly in the dancers' lives, called a common
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: denominator officers. While the troopers were inputting data and Sergeant
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Stauber was filling in for a vacationing hawkson, the profile
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: was narrowing. They had the caliber, they had the location,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: and they had a man with a piper super club
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: who seemed to be a common denominator in the stories.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: The survivors were finally telling you think, sir, there's more
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: than that. But DOUBLEHD ad good. He filled me up
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: a big one. Guys, I have a conference call at
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: six am. I need to be careful. The discovery of
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Paula Golding was a fracture point. The narrative that Anchorage
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: was simply a rough and tumble town where women occasionally
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: moved on without saying goodbye was dead. With two bodies
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: found nearly a year apart in the same remote graveyard,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: the authorities could no longer deny the inconvenient truth. It
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: was staring them in the face. A predator was systematically
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: not off. Girls, you don't say. Five days after Paula
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Goulding's remains were unearthed, the Alaska State Troopers made a
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: move that would change everything. Sergeant Glenn Flop wasn't your
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: typical detective. As his mentor Walter Gilmour described him, He's
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy who wears his cop ness and
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: the way he carries his shoulders like he's carrying the
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: weight of justice. One of his most endearing traits as
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: a cop is this quiet persistence. Yes, Betty Ross, double
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: H is the best. Okay, I'm now getting told in
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the background, it's flofthy Is that did I say it
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: right that time, Flofthy. Okay, like Frothy, but Floffy guys,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: you should see what's happening behind the strings. Yes, I
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: should go to bed. I should just log off right now,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: go to bed and go hang out with Dennis. Thank you. Sorry,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think she was talking to me. Sergeant. The
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Floffy was an ace, but he was professional. He was supportive,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: even handed, and possessed a confessional manner that disarmed suspects
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: and witnesses alike. Lama, get out of my script and
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: put your butt to bed. You can stay in chat, girl,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: but you need to go take care of yourself. Okay,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: just saying now. Gilmore famously noted the shift in strategy.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: We put all the asshole cops on the missing dancer's case,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and they'd and solve it. We figured it was time
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: to try the nice guy. Seriously, you are admitting that
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: they're assholes. You're admitting that why didn't you do something earlier?
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Why technically you are in bed. Okay, technically you are bad,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: then you are fine, and I apologize. Okay. At the
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: time of his assignment, Flofthy had solved sixteen of his
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: latest seventeen homicides. He was a closer, but more importantly,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: he was a man who didn't let lifestyle biases cloud
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: his vision. Okay, where others saw avenue girls, Fluffy saw
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: victims who deserve the full weight of the law, Flossi's.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Fluffy's first task was to help Sargus Hawksman and Sergeant
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Stuber Stober Stubert takes a shit sandwich and turn it
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: into a surgical strike. The nice guy was about to
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: start a game of quiet persistence that would eventually lead
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: him to a quiet house on Old Harbor Road, where
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: a baker with a stutter was waiting, confident that the
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: asshole cops had already given up. Betty, that is a
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: good question, Lama, are you laying down? I'm gonna need
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: pictures proving that you're lying down. Prove I need the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: receipts oh Llama is giving us information. Gilmour was the
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: lead for Bethman, Santon and zz Mason. Nothing but a
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: plus work for him. I knew I recognize the name,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: but right now I have drank enough to try to
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: get Dennis to settle down. It's not working, but thank
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you for that, Lama. By mid September nineteen eighty three,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: the investigation underwent a seismic shift. Sergeant Glenn Flothy finally
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: cracked open Sidney Paulson's case file. As he began to
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: dig in the background of Robert Hansen, the meek Baker
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: facade didn't just crack, guys, it shattered. F Lofty began
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: a systematic excavation of Hansen's life. He didn't just look
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: at recent reports. He reached back into the archives. Uh oh,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: now I'm pulling a lama and burping. Sorry, excuse me,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and I haven't eaten. He reached back in the archives
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: in Genoa, Genua, I don't know. In Iowa, he pulled
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: parole records, work histories, psychiatric testimony, and even an old
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: arson arrest. He looked at motor vehicle accidents in every
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: peculiar police contact Hanson. Ever. Okay, lady in Gray, I'm
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: going to take a break care because I need to drink.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: We are not bullying her. We are looking out in
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: the best interest of her. We want our lama healthy, Okay.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: And to be healthy, she needs to be relaxing, laying
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: in bed, drinking lots of fluid, taking lots of vitamin C. Okay,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: So We're not bullying her. We want her to rest. Okay, Okay,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: and now we've got head and Lisa, if you know,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: you know, I am going to just go on a
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: limb and say it has something to do with a
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: housewives situation somewhere. Okay. A Slothy and Sergeant Hawksfen laid
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: the pieces out. The reality of what they were seeing
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: hit them with the force of a tidle way, knocking
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: them on their butts. They were veteran investigators, men who
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: had seen the worst of human nature, but this was different.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: We knew we were looking for piranha, we didn't expect
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: to find a killer. Well, Sergeant Glenn Flothy said, Okay,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: you cannot be carrying on conversations that I don't get. Okay,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: let me just say this. Am I going to be
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: watching this show in two weeks. If so, y'all can
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: keep talking. If not, y'all have to stop right now.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask the monster kick out in my chat. Okay,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask them to kick out. Flothy identified four
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: haunting cases that served as the primary evidence of a
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: ritualistic signature. First was Aklutina Annie, found July nineteen eighty
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Jane Doe, aged sixteen to twenty five, stabbed in the
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: back and left in a shallow grave. Then Joanna Messina,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: who was also found in July nineteen eighty discovered in
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: a gravel pit just days after Eklutna. Annie, I am
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: being so Meredith right now? Am I being Meredith Gray?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Or is that a different Meredith? I'd like to be
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: referred to as Olivia Pope, okay, because I don't know
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: what y'all are talking about in what Shenanigans, Savage Cashew,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: would you protect me? They are making my job so hard.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting here in pain and they are talking about
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: insider stuff that I don't know about. And that's just rude,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: absolutely rude. You know what I am gonna name this
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: stone Dennis Lama and Lady in Gray. If y'alln't watch it, Lany,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: if you get in with them, I won't be coming
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: to see you in Texas when you're here, won't be going,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: So you better watch it too. I hold grudges, guys.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Then there was Sherry Morrow, who was found September nineteen
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: eighty two. It was shot in the back near the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Kanick River. Flothy noted a detail that made a skin crawl.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: She had been redressed. Her clothes had no bullet holes,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: meaning the killer had taken the time to clothe her
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: after the hunt was over. And now Paula Golding, who
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: was found in the same areas Sherry, also shot, also redressed. Okay, Pam,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: could you please handle this? Could you please? Because apparently
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: nobody else says Mama, I'm glad laughing, I'm gonna put
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: this on screen. I'm glad lafing. Laughing is making your brain.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't do it. Okay, you shouldn't do it. Okay,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't. And it's also rude. It's rude, and you're
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: hurting my feelings. In nineteen eighty three, data processing was
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: a manual labor of love. Yeah, they are in trouble.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: IBM had only recently launched the PC, and guys, it
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: was nowhere near capable of the cross referencing fluffy needed. Guys,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: they didn't have Excel spreadsheets. Say, they couldn't do pivot tables.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: They can, Oh, you love my face? I don't love
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: yours right now because you're being mean, being mean to me.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: But guys, they didn't have all that back in the day. Okay.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: The primary computer for this investigation was Glenn Fluffy himself.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: He was manually typing this stuff in that is impressive.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: He developed a manual matrix, a tragic assemblance of photos
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: disrupted lives in one minute snapshots. He sorted through the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: teenaged runaways and the women who had presumed left town. Yeah,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: we're not going to sit him looking for Lama when
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: she leaves town. From this, he pulled eight names that
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: fit a terrifying profile. Paula Goulding, Kathy dishert de Lynne Fray,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Karen Baumsguard, Sue Luna, Tamar Peterson, Teresa Watson, and Angela Fettern.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: He noticed the pattern. They were all women in their twenties,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: similar size, and were all offered large sums of money
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: for dates that he pivot tables. Amazing, I geek out
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: on them. Flothy didn't just sit behind a desk. He
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: began working the streets of Anchorage, even rearranging his life
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: life to match the nocturnal habits of his informants. So, guys,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: he became a spreadsheet, He became his own sort and filter,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and he was working the streets. Okay, he needed to
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: talk to the women who were still out there, the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: ones who knew the man and the green buick and
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: the stuttering baker who paid too much for a date.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Society had labeled these women high risk and looked away,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: but Fluffy saw them as the only ones who could
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: help him trap a killer whale. By October nineteen eighty three,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Glenn Flothy knew that to catch a hunter, you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: had to talk to the men who hunted with him.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: He began interviewing Robert Hansen's pasted a squaintances, looking for
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: a geographical overlap between Hanson's leisure time and the shallow
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: graves appearing across Alaska. On October twenty one, Loafi sat
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: down with Larry K. Bibvins, a former neighbor and hunting
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: partner of the meat Baker. In the world of criminal investigation,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: this interview was the jackpod ding Ding. Bivens didn't just
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: provide character contexts, he provided a map that mirrored the
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Trooper's murder board. Bivens place to Hansen in the exact
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: locations where the Avenue girls had been discarded the Kenaia Pensila.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Bibbins put Hanson at seward and moves pass areas where
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: the troopers were already investigating an unsolved murder and a
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: separate kidnapping, and right along the seward highway the Kanis River.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: Bibbins recalled hunting the Kanis River islands and sandbars with
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Hansen using a river boat. When Bivens pointed to the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: area on a map, specifically across from the Eklutna powerhouse,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: it was the precise location where the bodies of Paula
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Goulding and Sherrymorrow had been found. Bivins remembered visiting the
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: airport in Chukuk where Hanson proudly showed off this airplane.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: The location placed to Hanson just southwest of the Knicks
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: River and dangerously close to the site where ecclutinant Annie
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: was found. Bivens provided another critical piece of forensic data
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Hanson's technical obsession with firearms. You guys, remember he has
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: a felon. He revealed that in the early nineteen seventies
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: he and Hansen had gotten into reloading ammunition together. You
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: don't say Hanson didn't just buy bullets. He owned reloading
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: equipment and he enjoyed the precision of crafting his own
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: rifle realms. That's creepy guys. For Flothy, this added a
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: layer to the two twenty three caliber shell cases found
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: at the murder scenes. It suggested a killer who was
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: intimately familiar with the mcare of this weapon, a man
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: who treated his projects with the same meticulous care he
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: used for his hunting trophies. That is diabolical guys. Absolutely
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: to the outside world, Hanson's knowledge of the bush was
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: just a hallmark of an avid sportsman. Guys do not
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: love that. They try to just explain away everything for him.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. But through Bivens testimony, Lothy saw
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: that Hanson's scouting trips were actually reconnaissance for his private
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: museum of death. The logic was now undeniable. The plane,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: the boat, the reloading equipment, and the specific knowledge of
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: the Knicks River sandbars all led back to one man,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: the nice guy. The nice guy investigators had on his map.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Now he just needed the physical evidence to bring the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: gap between the Baker's house and the River's grave. The
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: investigation hit a wall of institutional bias that seemed impenetrable
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: despite the mounting evidence. Sergeant Flothy face a district attorney's
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: office that turned down his request for a search warrant
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: twice and their eyes the word of a sex worker
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough to dismantle the life of a respected baker. Guys,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: When did making bread become so damn prestigious that you
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: overlook a woman who was brutally attacked and assaulted, had
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: wounds all over her, gave every ounce of appearance of
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: being attacked. When did that trump a baker? I didn't
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: know that bakers were so high up in the hierarchy, guys.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: I did not know that baking was so I mean,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: I think it's great, but I didn't know that it
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: just made you a touchable To break the deadlock, thought,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: they reached out to the FBI's Behavioral Science unit in Quantico.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: He found himself on the phone with Special Agent John E. Douglas. Yes, guys,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: the pioneer of criminal profiling and the real life inspiration
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: for this series Mine Hunter. Guys, we are talking the goat.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: He is the goats. Okay, he is Bluffey played a
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: brilliant tactical hand. He didn't lead Douglas towards Hanson. He
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: simply provided the forensic details of the recovered bodies and asked,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: who's doing this? What followed was a chillingly accurate psychological
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: X ray. Without knowing Hanson's name, Douglas began to sketch
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: a phantom that matched the baker in every terrifying detail.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: So Betty asked, did Robert Hansen have dirt on some
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: of the comps? No, I just think they were ignorant men.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: I think it. He's a guy, he likes to haunt,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: he makes brand, he's married, he goes to church, he's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: got kids. He just like us. This is what I think.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: So the details that matched a manned around forty with
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: deep seated low self esteem fueled by rejection, intelligent and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: well respected, wearing a mask of sanity, a background in
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: petty crimes specifically mentioning, shoplifting, and ourson ding ding Ding,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: an experienced hunter who kept physical trophies ding ding Ding.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Douglas added the impossible detail that the killer likely had
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: a speech impediment, specifically a stutter. Sir, you nailed it. Okay,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: you nailed it, so did you? Lady in gray Rose
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: over Hose. The FBI agents didn't stop at the man.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: They predicted what Fluffy wouldn't find behind closed doors. They
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: told him the killer likely kept a murder kit, disguises
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: us to remain anonymous, and a stash of souvenirs like jewelry,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: driver's license clothing. He likes to keep it close to
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: him so he can view it in private. He takes
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: it out and relieves, relives the killings. It's a movie
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: in his brain, and he's turned on by the objects
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: he's taken from the scene. I think that is what
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: our fabulous profilers said for Hanson, the murders weren't just events, guys.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: They were his entire life. His work at the bakery
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: and his role as a family man were merely the
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: motions he went through while his mind replayed the hunts
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day. Guys, it was this costume.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Let's just be real. While the profile provided the psychological
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: way to bypass the DA's skepticism, the physical evidence was
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: finally catching up. On a like October eleventh, nineteen eighty three,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: Flopy sent Cidney Pauson's evidence to the FBI lab, including
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: her clothing and rape kit. The lab confirmed the biological
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: link that Robert Hansen was the likely source of the
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: seamen found on Cindy's clothing. So not only did she
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: bring all the information that matched. He's a match between
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: the mind Hunters describing Hanson's soul and the lab identifying
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: his DNA. The wall of bureaucracy finally crumbled. The respected
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Baker was about to have his mask ripped off and
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: hopefully punched in the face. Guys, I don't recommend drinking
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: wine that fast. You're supposed to enjoy it and taste it. Say.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: The mind Hunters had provided the physiological map and the
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: physical evidence was finally catching up, but before the trap
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: could be sprung, the troopers needed to ensure that the
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: respected Baker didn't have a single second of privacy. Yeah,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: about time he's getting a rectal exam, guys. Immediately following
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: the profile, arrangements were made for the FBI agents to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: fly to Anchorage to consult on the case. The first
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: and most urgent recommendation was that Robert Hansen must be
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: put under twenty four hour surveillance about god day time. Seriously,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: the bureau knew that once a serial killer realized this
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: net is closing, they often accelerate their violence or they
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: attempt to destroy the very mementos that define their lives.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: While Hansom was at the bakery or at home with
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: his family. The troopers were his silent shadows, watching every
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: movement of the man they now knew was a killer. Well,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: the Anchorage District Attorney's office, y'all suck, previously skeptical, was
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: invited to the Trooper station for John Douglas's review of
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: the case. Douglas arrived at the Trooper station to find
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: a rome a room full of skeptical prosecutors. He didn't
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: lead with fingerprints or ballistics. He led with the psychological,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: chronologically chronology of a serial killer. He walked them through
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: a decade of Hanson's life, reframing Bad Bob's history not
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: as a series of isolated mistakes, but as a deliberate excalation.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: He put the pieces together for them. Basically, the DA
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: was obsessed with the fact that Hanson had a wife
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: and children. Really, husband, fathers, they do bad shit all
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: the time. Why are you obsessed with that? Why that
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: just because you're a father, just because you're married, doesn't
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: mean shit okay, doesn't. Douglas dismantled this by explaining the
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: mask of sanity. He argued that the most successful serial
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: killers are often those who look the most normal. The bakery,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: the church attendants, and the hard working businessman persona or
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: the perfect camouflage for a man who spent his nights
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: hunting humans. The most critical part of the presentation was
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: convincing the DA that a search warrant would eventually yield results.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: Prosecutors hate fishing expeditions, especially when they turn up empty,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: as it can look like police harassment of a local citizen.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just say, normally, I would agree with you.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen is not a normal citizen. He was in prison. Guys,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: He's not a normal citizen. He's not squeaky clean. Douglas
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: drafted a specific high pressure affidavit based on the souvenir theory.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: He explained to the DA that men like Hanson don't
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: just kill and move on. They are addicted to the
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: memory of the act. If that doesn't make your skin crawl,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: Serial rapist killers commonly keep mementos. Such items would not
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: likely be destroyed and would be retained for a long time.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: He predicted that Hansa would have a murder kit, which
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: included disguises, restraints, specialized tools, trophies like jewelry, id cards,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: maybe even pieces of clothing hidden within the privacy of
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: this home or plane. This gave the DA a tangible
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: grocery list of what they expected to find, turning a
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: psychological theory into a forensic roadmap. Finally, I mean, I
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: feel like it's taken us so long to get here,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: so many victims. The final blow to the DA's skepticism
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: was the forensic alignment. Flasli presented the timeline of the
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Avenue girls disparate disappearances alongside the flight records of Hansen's
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: Piper super cub. When Douglas pointed out out that the
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: killers the killers likely type matched every woman on flop
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: these matrix, including Cindy Paulson, the room went quite you know,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: they were all sitting there going, shit, we've done fucked up.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: You know, They're all sitting there saying that. Right By
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: the end of the meeting, the DA's office realized they
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: weren't looking at a transaction gone wrong with prostitutes. They
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: were looking at a man whose entire existence was a
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: carefully constructed lie designed to facilitate the murder of dozens
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: of women. The following day, the FBI agents coached the
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: troopers on the art of the interview. I'm going to
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: just say it. I hope they did like a lot
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: of coaching, because they didn't do very good investigating, so
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: maybe they were better interviewers. I don't know. But they
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: taught them how to play into Hansen's low self esteem,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: how to handle the statter, and exactly what to look for.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: When they finally breached the house on Old Arbor Road,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: their work in Alaska finished, Agent Douglas and Agent Horned
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: wished the troopers luck and boarded a plane for Seattle.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: What why are you leaving Alaska? Because they can't find
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: no But they were heading into another storm, guys, the
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: search for the Green River killer. So they had other
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: things to do. But they left behind a department that
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: was finally united, armed with the psychological weight to tear
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: the mask off the Butcher Baker. The momentum of the
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: investigation had finally hit the one thing more dangerous than
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: a serial killer, bureaucratic apathy. Despite the FBI's chilling profile
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: and the forensic links, the local Anchorage District Attorney's office
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: seemed buried in its own inertia. I hate Alaska seriously.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Flothy walked into the DA's office with a bolding
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: briefcase and the weight of several dead women on his shoulder,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: only to be told that no one was available to
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: help draft the affidavits. Seriously, could you not call in somebody?
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Could you not pull somebody off of something else? We
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: know y'all aren't doing a lot of work there in Alaska.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: They're not. This wasn't just a minor delay, guys, It
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: was a potential catastrophe. Every hour Robert Hansom remained free
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: was an hour another woman on the strip was standing
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: in Cindy's place. This is the definition of urgent, guys.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: The mood at the Tudor Road Trooper station turned toxic.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: The investigators watched as DA representatives spent only minutes in
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: briefings with the FBI mindhunters. The sarcastic mutterings wonder how
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: they were able to spare all the time marked a
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: deep growing fear that the case would slipped the cracks
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: of a disinterested legal system. Alaska, guys, FBI comes in,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: They basically do your job, put all the shit together
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: for you. DA. All you need to do is have
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: one of your attorneys, probably even a paralegal, draw up
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: the affidavid, give it to somebody else, prove it, strengthen it.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: You didn't have a lot of job left to do.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Lyle Hogsman knew that a flawed Affidavid could lead
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: to a thrown out case years down the line. It
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: had to be bulletproof, okay. Seeing no help from the
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: local office, Flaffee reached into his past. He called Pat Dukan,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: who we are gonna call a hero. He was an
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: assistant DA from Fairbanks and a personal friend from Flo,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: this time in the Major Crimes unit there. Yeah, guys,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: he had to call somebody else that he knew from
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: his past to come do the job that the locals
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: didn't want to do. I hope they all got fired.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: Unlike the Anchorage office, Dukean was a believer. He had
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: seen psychological profiling work in the Fairbank serial killer cases
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: like the hunt for Thomas Bundet, and he didn't need
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: to be convinced that a respectable baker could be a monster. Guys,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: I know it's now twenty twenty six. I think we
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: all know that anyone can be a monster, anyone. We
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: don't know what they're hiding. That Friday night, the investigation
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: moved into a war room. Floppy picked Ducan up from
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: the airport and they went straight to the station. The
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: office was decorated with the grim history of Hansen's life, files, photos,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: and records of violence that led the local authorities had
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: ignored for years. Oh, Betty, I hope someone sued over
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: this too. We would have to ask Lama, because I
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: don't know that answer. If they didn't, I don't know
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: what statue of limitations is. They still need to go
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: back and do it. At six am on Monday, the
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: draft was finished. Yes, guys, they started Friday night. They
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: pulled an all weekender. Not an all night or an
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: all weekender, okay. Pat Dugan called an early flight back
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: to Fairbanks, arriving at his own office just in time
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: to handle his own heavy case load. Told you, guys,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Herougan's role remained largely unherold, but his work was the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: bridge between a hopeless investigation and a legal reality. He
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: and Fluffy had created a document that didn't just ask
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: to search a house. It laid out the soul of
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: a predator on paper. Maama, amos. If you can find
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: a copy, I would love to read that affidavit. I
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: would love to read it, okay, Just saying and a
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: striking moment of historical syncrety, I can't say okay. In
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: a striking moment of his historical all coming together, a
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Fluffy was preparing his final move and anchorage. The
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: FBI was holding a landmark press conference at the Justice
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Department in Washington, d C. They were fighting for the
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: creation of the Violent Criminal Apprehension Program. Yeah, yeah, Now,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: the Bureau dropped a chilling statistic on the national media.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Five thousand Americans had been murdered by serial killers in
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two alone. Okay, with a vast majority of
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: these cases remaining unsolved, guys, that is scary. While the
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: nation was waking up to the reality of the serial
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: killer phenomenon, Glynn F. Lothy was sitting in a cold
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: office in Alaska holding the keys to solving one of
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: the most prolific cases in that exactory. Everyone watching now,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: or those who are watching as part of the replay crew,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: or those listening on the podcast, do you know every
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: single one of us has passed a serial killer or murderer?
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: All of us. We just don't know it. Lot that
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: sink in. On that same Wednesday, Lati stood before Judge
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Victor Carlson with a forty eight page affidavit, the exhaustive,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: weakend long labor of love he completed with Pat dukean
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: Judge Carlson know for his incisive intelligence, didn't rush. I
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: like that. He read the document with great deliberation. This
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a request to search a house. It was
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: a narrative, a decade of horror. When he looked up,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: the skepticism that had plagued the investigation for months was
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: gone erased. I don't have any problems granting you the
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: search warrant, Carlson said soberly. The judge doesn't just give
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: Flothy a foot in the door. He gave him the
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: keys to Hansen's entire world. Judge Carlson signed eight separate
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: warrants eight okay eight, authorizing the troopers to descend upon
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: his home, his bakery, all of his vehicles, and that
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: Piper Super Club. I like you, Judge Carlson, for this.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: You did good on that. The warrants were signed and
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: the meek bake was out of time. And guess what
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: the nice guy was coming for him? Bad boys, bad boys?
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: What you're going to do? Okay? I will spare y'all
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: we should have added that to play for you, guys.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: Lothi's reaction was visceral. When the judge gave the green light,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: Lofthie nearly vaulted out of his chair. He was like, dude,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: let me get to it. He was like, see ya.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: He knew hands in better than anyone at that point.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: He knew the man was an early riser, a creature
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: of habit who was at the bakery before the sun
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: touched the Chucak Mountains. Guys, I normally apologize and care
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: that I say shit wrong, but this is Alaska and
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: I really don't give a shit about Alaska and people
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: that lived there. I am sorry I am classifying Alaska
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: that way, but I just don't care. Okay, into my
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: daughter in love's husband that lives there. I'm not talking
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: about you, Okay, I am not talking about you. If
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: they were going to catch him with his trophies, they
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: had to move before he had a fleeting chance to
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: burn the evidence. Flothy needed to coordinate a multi site
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: rate brief dozens of incompetent officers, I added incompetent and
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: ensure that when the meek baker opened his door the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: next morning, he wasn't looking at a customer. He was
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: looking at the end of his life as a free man. Yes,
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: can you imagine going to bed the night before? Do
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: you think he slept? Do you think Flothy got any
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: sleep the night before? Because I'm not sleeping well these days,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: I definitely wouldn't have gotten any sleep. I wouldn't have
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: gotten any sleep. The morning of October twenty seventh, nineteen
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: eighty three, began with a heavy, expected silence at the
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: trooper station on Tudor Road. The air was thick with
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: the scent of endless pots of coffee being brewed. And guys,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell y'all, I've had coffee in police stations
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: unless it's gotten better, and like their coffee be nasty, Okay,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: it be nasty. But the nervous energy of the men
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: who knew they were about to step into the history
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: books were given off the scent. Fabulous Officer Greg Baker,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: the man who had first believed Sidney Paulson risked his
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: career to keep the case alive, arrived at the station
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: while it was still dark. He had been invited by
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: his friend Jim Stockstill to witness the culmination of his
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: own persistence. Why they did not give him a front
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: row seat, I don't know. He should have been allowed
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: to be on the front line. He should have been
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: seeing hands and go down. In my opinion, the station
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: was a hive of nervous troopers waiting for the specific signal,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: the moment Robert Hansen lesped his home for the bakery.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, the meticulous, punctual baker was late.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: As we know, it can't go perfectly smooth. The clock
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: ticked past six, then seven, the tension growing thicker and thicker. Finally,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: at eight twenty six a, the stalemate broke. From their
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: unmarked car parked in the mini mall at ninth in Ingra,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: State Trooper Forrest Bullington and Sergeant Gerald Smith finally sparted
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: spotted their target. Hanson was in his baker's whities. They're whites,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: but whities, the pristine uniform of the respected local businessman.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: He was leaning into his car, likely finishing a morning
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: delivery or maybe preparing for the day's straight. The two officers,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: dressed in civilian clothes to avoid drawing a crowd, stepped
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: out of their vehicle and approached him. Robert Hansen, Yes.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: The interaction was jarringly polite. Smith and Bullington and identified
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: themselves and told him the troopers wanted to discuss some
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: cases under investigation. They asked if he would be willing
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: to come to the station. What do you think he did? Guys? Thoughts? Anybody,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: anybody want to tell me in the chat what they
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: think he did? While I grab a drink, Lady and Gray,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: we should say it every five minutes. Robert Hansen his
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: garbage and I hate him. I hate him, I hate him.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: I hate him. Okay, Well, for those of you that
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: think and he got scared, now, they always cooperative Hanson.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: He didn't flinch, he didn't run. He maintained the meek
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: baker persona to the very end. Sure, he replied, calmly,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: just let me give my workers some instructions and get
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: my coat. While Hanson was being chauffeured to the station,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: a coordinated tactical strike was launched across the city. The
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: eight warrants signed by Judge Crawson were executed simultaneously to
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: prevent any chance of evidence being destroyed. Because I'm hoping
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: they thought like Lama, and I think I don't think
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: he did all of these by himself. I think even
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: if that person didn't help him, I think he had
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: a buddy. Another team, made up of Sergeant McCann and
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Stockard, were already en route to track down John Hinny.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Hinny was the man who had provided the bulletproof alibi
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: that had originally convinced the APD to let Hanson walk
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: after the Sydney Paulsing kidnapping. Somebody needs to be investigating
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: that man. I don't know if he's so live, I
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: don't remember, I don't care. I don't think he's clean.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm gonna say. The troopers were no longer
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: interested in excuses. They were interested in breaking the lies
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: that had kept a killer on the streets for a decade. Yeah,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: because y'all screwed up. Now you're trying to make it right.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: They had successfully lured the killer whale into the station.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: Now the race was on to see which would finish first,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: the interview in the interrogation room or the search teams
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: digging through the rafters of the house on Old Harbor Road.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen thought he had outrun the Avenue Girls. He
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: thought he had outflown the troopers. He even thought he
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: had outsmarted the district attorney. But as he sat in
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: the back of that unmarked car, he didn't know about
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: the forty eight page at the David in Glenn Floppy's
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: brief grace. He didn't know about the mine hunters in Quantico.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: He had already sketched his soul, and he certainly didn't
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: know or probably suspect that at that very second, boots
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: were hitting the floorboards of his attic on the Old
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Harbor Road. The hunt was over, the harvest was just beginning.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: For years, the legal system in Alaska operated on a
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: hierarchy of worth. I still don't know how a baker
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: got up high. I'm just saying, not saying they're bad.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: I just want to know how it waited the word
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: of a respected businessman against the word of a seventeen
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: year old girl from the streets, and it found the
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: girl wanting. But history doesn't always stay silent, and one
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: patrol officer who refused to look away the losing side
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: was finally about to have its day in court. Thank you,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: officer Baker. Cindy Paulson was no longer in nuisance case.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: She was the king to a key to a kingdom
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: of horrors that was about to be unlocked. Hmmm, that's
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: all tonight, guys. Tomorrow night on True Crime and Wine Time,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: we will continue the series and move into Part ten.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: The meek Baker's clock finally runs out, though you're done now.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: While Robert Hansen sits an interrogation room across for Sergeant
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Glenn Flothy, relying on the same stuttering all shucks persona
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: that has shielded him for decades, an army of investigators
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: are crossing the threshold of his sanctuary on Old Harbor Road.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: We're going inside the house, the bakery, and the hangar.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: We will follow the troopers as they climb into the dark,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: cramped corners of an attic that Robert Hansome thought was
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: his private museum of shadows, from a hidden murder kit
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: to the jewelry of women the city had forgotten. The
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: physical evidence is about to catch up to the psychological profile.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: The nice guy detective and the minehunters from Conaco had
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: laid the groundwork. Now the house is about to give
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: up the dead, and guys, I just have to say,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: it's about fucking time. Just stop and think for a moment.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: If they would have listened to Cindy, Just stop and
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: think if they would have listened to her when she
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: came in, because guys, that is what makes this almost
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: unbearable to sit with. This is how this could have
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: all been avoided, not all of it, but most of it.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: Because they ignored it for years and because of that
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: more were killed. Is absolutely and insane because guys, Cindy
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: didn't just escape a predator. She handed law enforcement a
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: roadmap to a killer, and still they chose not to
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: see it or believe her. And I, as a woman,
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: can't help but want to say, seriously, everything she said
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: was true. None of it was lies. You were able
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: to verify that, and you still chose the word of
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: a man. It was white? Was it because it was
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: a man? I don't know. But guys, she gave them
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: what they needed. And it's not because her story didn't
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: line up. It's because of who she was. Okay, that
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't a mistake. We're human, we make mistakes, But guys,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: that is not a mistake. Judging someone's story based on
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: who you think they are, that's not a mistake. That
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: is a person doing a bad job. And in this case,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: it was a cop. Detectives law enforcement doing a bad job.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: They are supposed to keep an open mind. They are
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: not supposed to wear blinders. They are supposed to not judge.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: But because they did, they left a monster free to
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: keep hunting. Okay, and I need to say, a seventeen
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: year old girl terrified recounting a nightmare in real time.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: She should have been wrapped in a bubble. She should
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: have been protected, she should have been given whatever she needed,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: and instead she was dismissed. And meanwhile, Robert Hansen kept
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: doing his thing. Okay, And I want you all to
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: listen to me, and I want you to be clear
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: about the consequences of that. Every delay, every refusal to act,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: every moment the system up or dragged its feet, allowed
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: for more women to be taken, more lives to be erased,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: more families left wondering what happened. And guys, that is
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: not just failure, that is damage. They cannot be undone. Alaska,
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: even if you finally stepped up and took accountability, you
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: can't undo your massive screw up because, as we learned
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: watching the documentary about Alaskan women, you're still screwing up.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: You're still doing the same thing. But I do need
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: to say this, Officer Baker is a hero and Fluffy
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: I am sorry I said your name wrong. I prefer Flaw,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: but that's okay. But when those search warrants finally came through,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: and when someone finally cut through the bullshit, it mattered.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: That's the moment where the system finally started doing what
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: it was supposed to do all along, and that was
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: its damn job. They didn't even want to put somebody
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: on the task of doing the AFFI David. They didn't
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: have time for it. Do you want to know why?
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: Because of who the women they were. I don't know that,
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: but that is what I think, And that's what pisses
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: me off and hits me with so much emotion. And
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad I'm in pain right now, or
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: I would be much worse relief that they finally got
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm relieved that they finally got off their
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: ass and they did their job. Okay. Plus everybody should
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: be angry that it took so long. Everybody. Everybody should
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: be pissed because Cindy deserved to be believe the first time,
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: if they had listened to her, Guys, think about it,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: we most likely would not be covering this case. We
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: wouldn't because there wouldn't be all of this to cover.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: And by the way, have I mentioned how much I
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: hate Alaska and Robert Hanson. I hate them all. I
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: hate them all. Thank you all for being here. I'm
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: sorry I ranted so much. I'm sorry for whatever weird
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: faces amos. I'm telling you right now, you better not
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: eclipped any of those, okay, because that would not be nice. Guys,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: before I go, if you like what you heard tonight,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: be sure to follow all of our socials inscribe to
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. It's free. I will tell you if
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: you follow my Terry True Crime TikTok. I rewatched the
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: video I posted this morning and I was like, I
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: cannot believe you posted that. But I told myself, you
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: post it, you're not editing it, and you're not redoing it.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: You're going to be authentic and let it go. I'm
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: going to have to rethink that plan. So you really
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: need to come over to socials. And there's a special
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: treat coming about our beautiful Lama that we'll be hitting
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: the socials because she's not on social media, so I'm
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: going to introduce social media to her. Okay. Now, remember
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: if you're listening on our pod, maybe you should come
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: over to YouTube. Okay, you get to see what we
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: look like. You get to see the visuals we're putting up. Okay,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: if you don't want to do that because you like listening,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: please download, give us a rating. It helps us get
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: our channel out there. And guys, before I saw on
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: off Time, I just want to say again I am
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: beyond appreciative to Lama. We knew we were doing this case.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: It was gonna be an episode maybe two, and once
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: she found everything that Alaska was trying to hide and
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: all of the victims. Like I said last night, I
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: am so grateful that she wanted to do the victims
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: justice because guess what, Alaska didn't do it. So we
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: are going to and we are going to keep talking
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: about how shitty Alaska is tomorrow night. So don't forget
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: to be back here tomorrow night, same channel, same time.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe if Lama will put her butt to bed, drink
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: your vitamin C, drink your tea, maybe she'll be here
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night. If not, I will be here. But guys,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: stay safe, take care of yourself, and because we never
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: know what tomorrow brings tell the people that you love
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: that you love them. Okay, take cares, guys. Guys, go
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: be amazing for our Lama because we can show her
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: respect in doing that. Bye, guys,