Latest / The Mentor Sessions / The Mentor Sessions | Why Most Men Are Stuck in Old Patterns (And How to Fix It)
Transcript
- Bill Simpson: we often confuse attention and chemistry with connection. attention BigMike: know. Bill Simpson: and chemistry, you know, that's kind of what draws you in, right? But to sustain a relationship based on that it's not gonna last that long if that's all you're after. It's not real connection until you do the deeper work, BigMike Coyle: None of us become who we're meant to be alone. Every story has people who helped write it. So let's talk about them. Welcome to the Mentor Sessions. BigMike: Welcome back to the mentor sessions, everybody. I'm Big Mike, the host of the Mentor Sessions. I'm happy to have you here with us. Today we're with my new friend. We met a little bit ago, got chatting, and lot of lot of things in common. So I'd like to introduce everybody to Bill Simpson. Bill is a former radio DJ and he's had some very interesting pasts in his life that brought him to where he is now, helping with Helping people reconnect with themselves. And Bill, why don't you take it away? And if you can just start out, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are. Bill Simpson: I first I just wanna say thanks for having me on, Mike. I do appreciate it and I appreciate what you're doing. mentors, you know, were a saving grace for me, so I I I just appreciate what you're doing, bringing that to the to the forefront. BigMike: most of us did a long time ago. And and for some of us like you and I, it it was further away than than others. Bill Simpson: Yeah. Yeah, it goes by fast. so yeah, I I've had quite a journey in in my life. you know, as a lot of folks I had experienced some childhood trauma at an early age, sexual abuse from a neighbor, a friend of my brother's, girlfriend of a girlfriend, and it was just something that I wasn't ready for, although as it was exciting as it was. But I and I later on in my life I could brag that I lost my virginity at six years old. didn't realize how sick that was at the time. parents got divorced around that time and I went to live with my mom and my my older brother. well, let me just say that my mom could be the best mom on the planet. She was very nurturing and comforting, yet she could also be terrifying. And there were times when I was very afraid of her. She broke glass and put it on a on a plate and said, There's your dinner. and a lot of threats, a lot of just volatile behavior that didn't make me feel very safe as a kid. A couple years later, My mom gave custody of my brother and my myself to my father. and after that, five years later she died and I didn't see her in between that time. it was an empty period in my life. I it didn't really impact me so much, or at least as I look back, I felt like I had a relatively happy childhood. But I didn't realize the the ramifications of that experience had in my relationships growing up. I had moved into my teenage years dating, and always overlapped the girls I dated. I would be with one and then find another, drop that one the old one and find a new one, and then so on. And that pattern Lasted all way through my first marriage. and I didn't realize what was going on at the time, but going through therapists who is probably my main th mentor in my life, helped me to realize that I had an abandonment issue. Because my mom left, she abandoned me, and then she the ultimate abandon is that she died. So in processing all that I realized that going through these relationships, overlapping these relationships that I didn't want to be left alone, so that's why I overlapped, you know, and I wasn't gonna let you leave me. I was gonna leave you before you left me, so I wouldn't be abandoned. And that carried through, like I said, overlapping through my first marriage. got some therapy, did better, got married again. T second marriage was a little bit better. not great, but I stopped overlapping. I stopped, you know, having affairs and all that and then married a third time and that didn't work and so I was pretty much ready to give up on relationships at that point, you know. And I had this strange thing happen. I was actually sitting in meditation one night. I I went from a A twenty seven room house, right, with all the you know, everything that I had and then ended up in one room in someone's house, a friend of mine's house. And it was quite a a a shock to my my system, And so I and part of my dealing with stress I was doing some meditation and I'm sitting there and I hear this like rafiki from the Lion King going, It is time. And I'm like, what the hell? Here I am, you know, divorced, living in this one-room house. and I had just got laid off my radio job as well. And I did not look good on paper. And so I was really pushed. I had to trust this inner voice that I heard. And I put myself on this website at the time, and three days later, this woman poked at me and Most of the other interests were like in Russia and you know, not even close to where I lived. And this woman showed up thirty miles away from where I live now. And I'm like, okay, that's doable. And we started chatting back and forth, started emailing each other, poured out our souls, you know, laid it all out on the line, all that I'd been through, you know, we talked about our values. Did a lot of values, clarification, you know, what what we envision our lives to be, all these things before we even talked on the phone. Just spilled it all out. And then we talked on the phone, met, and that was it. And we've been together for over 17 years now. and I was able to use all the the techniques that I learned through therapy, couples therapy, doing my own trainings to where now what I do is help men rebuild after a breakup or divorce, finding themselves first before they move into another relationship. BigMike: So while you were saying all that, something that popped in my mind if I if you don't mind me sharing is you were talking about how you went from your mom's house and how unstable it was. I think it's probably the best way to put it. and then to your dad's. What was life at your father's like with you and your brother? Bill Simpson: Yeah, it was certainly much safer. I knew my father loved me. We we really didn't connect that well. He was I'd say I'd call him a functional alcoholic, and kinda kept his feelings to himself. certainly would let me know when he was displeased about something, but he was never abusive or anything like that, just more critical. And I had a stepmom that I r would call a an another mentor because I did feel safe with her. I could talk to her about things, things that I couldn't talk to my dad. And my dad would always say, Son, you know, you can talk to me about anything. And then I'd open up to him and then he would you know, go off on me and I'm like, this is not safe. I can't do that with him. BigMike: Right. Yeah. Bill Simpson: But I could do it with my stepmom and I I'd say she was the the saving grace because she was a a constant kind of stable figure in my life. She wasn't much of a you know, nurturer or like a mother f figure, but she was very consistent and stable to where I felt You know, this was predictable. I c I knew what to expect. With my mom, I didn't know whether I was gonna get the good mom that was nurturing or the one that was breaking glass. BigMike: Yeah, you didn't know who you were waking up to that day. And and Bill Simpson: Exactly. BigMike: that that's a scary feeling. Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: I've I've had people like that in my life. And the other thing that I really stood out to me is how much time you guys spent basically building the relationship before you even met or talked. you know, my my wife and I we've been together for for a long time and part of that we we were high school sweethearts, but we spent two years or so only communicating through letters. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: a phone call once in a great while. And I credit that for that allowing, like you said, all those value decorations and stuff like that to really, really come out and and building that relationship with that person where you aren't focused on the physical side of it, but the mental and the emotional. And I am a big believer in the power of a h handwritten letter versus a an email, a text Bill Simpson: Mm. Yeah. BigMike: message. And at this time, thirty thirty plus years ago, there weren't no email there weren't weren't Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: no we did not have access to email or text messages and stuff like that. In fact the internet was still out of its infancy. I think that's when the the craze of getting your AOL email for the day, you know, so you could use the Bill Simpson: You've got mail. BigMike: Yeah, you know, but we I didn't have access to a computer at the time. But I've always credited the the power of writing and to this day I'll still if I want to share something with someone, I will write it out by hand 'cause I feel like to it. And I think receiving Bill Simpson: Yeah. Well I BigMike: a handwritten letter is better. But it's so good to like we spend so much time focusing on the physical aspect and I think sometimes when we're physically attracted to someone or something, you know, a car or something, we look at it and we can appreciate it and and we want so much to force it to work because we want that emotional, physical first attraction without really getting to know it. Go for you know, and find out all the the Issues and bells and whistles if that makes sense. Bill Simpson: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, w a lot of times, and especially men, but all of us, men, women, we often confuse attention and chemistry with connection. And you know, attention BigMike: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great way to word it, you know. Bill Simpson: and chemistry, you know, that's kind of what draws you in, right? But to sustain a relationship based on that it's not gonna last that long if that's all you're you're after. It's not real connection until you do the deeper work, until you do talk about your values, your vision, you know, and and really connect on an emotional level, versus attraction. And you know, I I remember, I was so insecure as a kid, you know, thinking about my high school days and, you know, would get a girl's attention and it just felt amazing, you know, like it was like this rush and and so I would always chase connection and you know, I consider myself a pretty shy introvert introvert guy, but I was in a band and, you know, there were women that, you know, would give me attention and I would, you know, I would get that rush. And that continued into my early adult years and my radio career doing a very popular morning show here in Philadelphia and you know, women coming on to me quite often and you know, it was like, wow, this is great and it's every you know, every guy's fantasy to have these women that even that I would consider out of my league, right? That were interested in me. I'm like, why me? you know, and then I realized that, well, this is the pr she's looking at the guy that's on the radio, the guy that makes her laugh, or, you know, the the status, the s celebrity status or the money or whatever. And she doesn't really see me as a human being. And BigMike: Yeah. Bill Simpson: and that's what happens with attraction and validation. You know, that feels like connection. It it it charges us up. Yet that's just the beginning. We have to go deeper and find out how compatible we are. And that's gonna sustain your relationship much longer than just the attraction. Because if you're chasing attraction and chemistry, well, good luck. It's not gonna BigMike: Well, and you've you've done more work on this and and so maybe you can speak to this and than I can. But Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: when you're when you're chasing that when you yourself aren't even feeling connected with yourself, you know, and how important it is to at least have an idea of who you are. Bill Simpson: Exactly. BigMike: did you feel and forgive me if I'm out of line here, but did you feel that having that access that you did what made you like you knew in the moment that this is who I am. I'm this DJ and because that people like me and you you took advantage of it. I think it's probably a be the best way to ask it. Bill Simpson: Yeah, I had I had some weak moments for sure. and I was saying how I kinda overlapped in early relationships and you know, and that that was part of it because you know, like, wow, this is this is great. I've never had this before and yet could see eventually as I matured and did my own personal growth work was that I want to be seen for me, not because I'm on the radio. And I think there was this a mindset switch there because when I was on the radio, I'm like, wow, I get girls, you know, or get attention, you know, and yet I had to be this radio personality versus just this guy walking down the street. Like if they had seen me walking down the street, you know, they wouldn't give me two two glances, you know, but the fact that I was on the radio. So there's an advantage of that. but There's no real connection there and that's where the emptiness would come in. I would be with these people and I'd done having having a conversation and I'm realizing, huh? I don't this person doesn't know me, I don't know this person, and yet, you know, they see me in a whole different light. BigMike: Yeah. it's something I saw I definitely saw in law enforcement and we hear those horrible stories all the time too. That, you know, there there's a saying basically that the badge will get you women, but women will take the badge if if you're not careful with it and Bill Simpson: Yeah, that's I mean it's that power that power dynamic and it's a similar kind of dynamic, it's just a different different scenario. BigMike: Yeah. So you were talking about your meditation and how Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: you had that Rafiki moment. And Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: I I think that's a great way to describe it, especially, you know, when you say that you you You have that inner light, you know, like, okay, it's time, you're ready. But then you the the other thing that I I like from that moment is when Rafiki clubs Simba upside the head. And Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: he's like, Well, what'd you do that for? And he says, What's it matter? It's in the past. When you had your Rafiki moment, did it feel more like the okay, it's ready, that that release, if you will, I'm ready, or did you feel more like the club upside the head? Bill Simpson: It was more the club because I you know, I wasn't ready, for sure. I was ready to give up. I wasn't ready to put myself out there again. and yet, you know, my I guess this inner inner voice knew better. and what I've learned from that too, and and when I work with men or you know, my clients and patients, you know, we're never ready, really. one of the things I reinforce all the time is that you know, I I just act on an idea with do it with courage and before I feel ready because if I wait till I'm ready, you know, I'm gonna be in the grave and it hasn't gotten done yet. You know. BigMike: Yeah, that that's a secret I think about life is if you wait for something, you know, I tell people all the time, there's there's pros and cons to this mentality, but if you wait till you can afford kids to have kids, you're never gonna be able to afford If you wait Bill Simpson: Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: till you're stable enough before you start living your life and and doing the things you wanna do, you're You're never going to be stable enough, not for yourself. You're you're always going to second guess and question, you know, if I'm ready. So Bill Simpson: Yeah. And and it BigMike: sometimes you just gotta jump in. Bill Simpson: Yeah, and I think intuitively all the work that I had done around relationship, you know, going to couples counseling, I this therapist that I mentioned, I worked in her office doing biofeedback and I also helped her with doing these mock sessions and I would sit in and watch how she worked and learning about dynamics of relationships. And so I had all this stuff that I had been exposed to, yet my relationships weren't working out. And I think that was my ego saying, you're not good enough, you know, you you just suck in relationships. But my inner knowing knew that, no man, you've, you know, you've learned a lot here and you've grown a lot. You just gotta go and attract the person that's gonna appreciate what I've been through. And that's what ultimately happened. And My wife certainly had had her path and we really lived very parallel type of lives and experiences. and we kinda joke and say, we hadn't this agreement when we came into the world and yet we had to go learn our lessons before we got together. And you know, today feels as fresh alive and thriving in our marriage, yet it's a lot deeper than it's ever been because as you know, you've been married with your wife for a long time and it just gets deeper and better and, you know, more solidified. So I so there was a part of me that knew, even though my ego said, No, you're not ready yet. BigMike: Yeah. Well I'll tell you the most interesting thing about marriage, and this is one of those things that I've thought about as I through the years of marriage. You can go through a lot and you can stand by each other through a lot, but it takes a lot of you. And it tak it at times it takes a lot out of you. Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: my wife and and we the story behind it is kind of comical, but when our twins got their learner's permit and the first night we took them out to drive and stuff like that. That night I ended up having to take my wife to the ER. and she had a bowel obstruction. And so, you know, we joked that that that's what happens when you try to take twins to learn how to drive on the same night. Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: But th you know this is not the glamorous part of marriage in my opinion, but the next day I went to her hospital room because I still had to go be a dad. I still had to go get the kids ready for school and all that stuff. And so the next day I once everybody was done and I was able to go see her in the hospital, they were pumping her stomach and and you know, those are not smells that you're ready for to come out of anyone, let alone the person you love most on life. Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: And you know, so when you're sitting by someone's side when they're in their worst moments, when they're hurting, and yet your love for them doesn't shift at all. It doesn't change how you feel about that person. It's not like, you're gross now. It that's that's a a value that I've learned to appreciate. having my wife be able to sit in that moment with me after back surgeries and dealing with my own traumas and stuff like that where you just need someone to just sit with you when you're at your absolute worst and still find humor and laugh about it and and the love and appreciation of it. I was fortunate. My mom passed slightly after their fifty-fifth an wedding anniversary. Bill Simpson: Mm. BigMike: I believe she was in hospice care and there's a part of me that wants to believe that she held on to make sure they hit that milestone together. And my parents were a couple that they got married very young. and people said they wouldn't last six months and you know, they raised four four kids that you know we've all made it in life to to some degree or another and we all have our own families and stuff like that and I'm I'm fortunate because I've seen I've seen both sides of that. And Bill Simpson: Sure. BigMike: You know, I've seen the way my dad hurts after losing his wife and stuff like that. But so Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: I was fortunate whereas you yourself in the stuff you just said, you didn't get exposed to that growing up. your parents split up very young while you were going through some stuff that you didn't know how to express, especially at six years old. And Bill Simpson: Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: and how that affected you. You know, even even my wife's parents, they they divorced and they divorced we were already married and had our own kids when when they split up and it really hit my wife hard. So I can ama can't even imagine how it would hit a six year old boy who is suffering inside himself. You talked about the therapy and and working with the therapist and and the mentorship you got from there. What other steps do you think led you to being ready to find your wife now? Bill Simpson: Well, I think I had come into terms about who I was because my relationship prior to that, I really had lost my identity. I had been tr I was transitioning from, you know, this radio personality morning show guy for twelve years and during all that time I was learning Different aspects of holistic health and getting all these trainings, certifications, to help f it all started with me just working on myself to get myself grounded and and healed and all those things, my personal growth, spiritual growth journey. And so as I was transitioning, I thought I was gonna have a couple more years left doing the morning show to recruit. recoup financially from a divorce that hit me pretty hard. but frankly my heart wasn't in it. You know, my my partner and I were we were good really good friends. We were like brothers from another mother, yet management was trying to get us to go against each other and just to, you know, get ratings, just you know, things to d that just were going against our values. And We had made a pact that if this wasn't fun anymore that we weren't gonna do it. well, they got the jump on us. We had came time for negotiations and they decided not to renew our contract. And that was somewhat devastating and at the same time a huge relief because I'd kinda had enough of what I'd been going through, as I just said. And so it gave me an opportunity to open up my own holistic health practice, start my own business, and focus on something different. And so that in that relationship during that transition, I think my ex saw me more as the radio personality guy, not so much the holistic health guy. BigMike: Do you think you had to put that facade on even when you didn't want to? You you had to be the radio personality guy and not just Bill? Bill Simpson: Yeah, I mean there was it was a role that I had to play. And depending on depending on the the s the scenario, I would do that. but I've I felt like I was more Bill than, you know, my my radio namesake. And yet I there was a part of her that acknowledged it, but I never really felt like She was on board with that. And that's where I was transitioning in my life. Like I I was growing out of that old persona and and you know, programming that I was used to into this new way of living and and continuing to grow and evolve. And I felt like I wasn't getting that from her. And so it was just where it got to the point where I just felt like I I totally lost myself because I was trying to stay in to please her. And no matter what I did, I felt like it just wasn't working. And I knew she wasn't gonna leave, I could tell, but I had to for my own sanity. And even though it it felt like she had broken up with me, even though I was the one that had to end it, because I still loved her and wanted her, yet I was holding on to crumbs in that relationship just to keep it going. And I also learned that that was part of trauma bonding, you know, like that abandonment thing, like, no, you know, I'll I'll hang on to the ten percent of what's good, but have to put up with the ninety percent of the stuff that wasn't so good. And so my growth led me to realizing, no, I gotta take care of me, I gotta be true to me, and not give up myself in order to be in a relationship. And that's where the the shift came and then that's where I worked on my own, you know, self compassion, stuff I'd been working on previously, but even more so being on my own, being alone. you know, that was that was a catalyst in finding myself and then that in itself allowed me to find my wife today. BigMike: Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting. All the things that you described, The best way I'm picturing it is it took you from you had built everything up and then to build up who you were, you had to knock it all down and basically rebuild that foundation all over again. That foundation that Bill Simpson: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yeah. BigMike: foundation of who you are and also who you wanted to be and to change. And I think just a quick little aside for a an important lesson right there is the realization that it's never too late to change who you are. And that those metamorphoses, they show that, you know, we go through at different stages in our life, when we go from Childhood to adolescence, adolescence to adulthood, adulthood, and then even later on in adulthood. And sometimes that's masked as a a midlife crisis. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: but sometimes that's just the the step that's needed so that we can we can grow and we can be the person that we need to be so that we can do like you're doing now, helping others and and taking those messages and sharing them forward. you've gone through all this work and now you're helping men transition through the the struggles that you've had and Bill Simpson: Right. BigMike: what does that look like? Bill Simpson: I understand what you're saying is that my experience helps me to relate to the guys that I work with. When I can say, hey, I lost myself in a relationship or I I overlapped relationships, you know, when I hear them say these things they feel they feel safe because I get it. I've been there. and I know what it takes. And, you know, part of my mission, I call it my love mission, you know, is to, you know, help guys maybe learn vicariously through what I've been through to avoid some of that. You know, to work on themselves, to really discover themselves first, so they can take their their best selves to the relationship. And, you know, and I look back at all my experiences, I mean, I I was steadily growing. it just it's just different phases of growth, you know, to where I finally got to where, you know, I am today and I still see myself growing and working also working with men and kind of you know, helping them understand what I've been through and and what they're going through helps to reinforce what I need to do for me and and for my relationship. it's a win win 'cause it it helps me Stay clear and and helps my relationship grow with myself and with my my wife. BigMike: So what do you think the the biggest obstacle you face when helping these men grow? Do they come do they come in wanting to grow? Do they come in still with a lot of their guards up? What are what are some of the things that you have to you face when you sit down and you start working with them? Bill Simpson: I worked in a health clinic, still do, but part-time now. And oftentimes a therapist, behavioral therapist will refer them to me. I'm I'm a mind-body educator and integrative therapy practitioner, life coach and mindfulness coach, all this stuff. And they would come to me maybe for stress reduction. and then I find out a lot of their stress is around their relationship, you know, so we bring that up. So that's you know, an obstacle is that they were referred to me, yet it also is that they were willing to learn, willing to grow through that referral. it's a little bit more challenging that way because it didn't come from them, it came from their therapist and someone that they trust, but it not fully coming from them. So with that, you know, it's getting them to understand that this is all a process and it goes both you know with people that that are referred to me and those who come to me on their own. Those who come to me on their own, they're open and willing and ready to grow, at least yeah and you know, intellectually. where the challenge comes in, and this is true across the board for anything you're trying to learn or change, is how the brain works. And so a guy may come in with all this, yeah, man, you know, I wanna do this, that and the third, or you know, I I share them, yeah, I know that, I know that. Well, you know about it because if you knew it, you wouldn't be you'd be doing it. So a lot of us know about something and that's kind of the intellectual piece of it. And then there's the operational piece where you have to practice it, you have to do the work. And what can happen, you know, whether you're, you know learning yoga or, you know, how to play cards, whatever, anything that you're learning that's new, if you don't practice it, then you're not really gonna master it. And yet when guys come in and I start giving them some things to do, that's where the resistance comes in. Because they just want they just want, okay, yeah, that's great in theory, but they have to practice it and What they'll do is they may be excited, they go out and they start and then it it didn't work, or they tried it for a little bit and they f you know, they fell off. Well, that's how the brain works. The brain wants to stay with what it knows, you know, and it wants to stay with what's familiar and it'll do everything to keep us there. And when you don't understand that, you think, well, this shit doesn't work, and so I'm throwing it out the window. You know, well, BigMike: Yeah. Bill Simpson: yeah. BigMike: you brought up a few good points, I'll do my best to work backwards. when it doesn't work we throw it out the window and and that's that's a very human experience where we don't understand that we don't we're not gonna learn the lesson at one shot. It takes repetition. We gotta keep going back at Bill Simpson: Exactly. BigMike: it, keep going back at it. And I think that's one of the the things about any type of recovery work I know with myself and working with my therapist and whenever I have a a relapse of the trauma responses that Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: I I I don't like about myself. Whenever I have those experiences being reminded that, you know, it takes time to to build the the healthy responses and follow the healthy paths. And but we do have such a natural reaction of just throwing the baby out with the bathwater is if you will. Because Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: when it doesn't work one time then it's never gonna work again. And especially when it hurts getting to that other side, either physically, mentally, emotionally, when it hurts getting it to the other side, we don't want to do that. We don't like the pain and we don't realize in in a lot like strength training, it takes going through that pain and working with that pain to to build that muscle, to build those responses. Bill Simpson: Exactly. BigMike: And and you need that repetition. And the other point that you really brought that you brought up really struck with me was about how the difference between those that are there because they want to be they chose, they found you, they want to do this the work, they want to put the effort in versus those that are there because their other therapist told them you should go see this guy. One Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: of the things I noticed when working with people in recovery and addiction when I was in in the working in the jail, those that were in the in custody treatment programs that we ha offered, those that were there because they wanted to be and they fought there, you could see the mindset shift, especially if it was someone who's done this program or have done these programs several times and it's because it was court ordered. Well I'll get out sooner. And and you'd see it and hear it in their conversations and and the way I the way I always recognized it was those that were doing it because that's where they had to be, while they weren't in class, they were still talking about their old lifestyle and they were talking about it with glee and laughter. And that's not to say that there aren't probably funny moments in in our the worst times that we can look back and laugh, but you can tell those that are they can't wait to get back to that lifestyle. They can't wait back to get back on the streets and doing what they're doing. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: versus those that are doing it because they realize they need to change. They need to change to be a better husband, a better father, to to quit this endless cycle of coming in and out of jail and in and out of people's lives. It it's so valuable to recognize that okay Why are you here? Why are you doing this? Are you doing this because this is something you want or because somebody told you to come and do this? And I think that's where one of the things we have to do is put away our ego to accept that, like, this is what I I need to be doing for me. I don't understand it. I don't get it. I don't want to be here. You know, I don't I don't necessarily wake enjoy waking up at six o'clock, six thirty in the morning to go lift weights, especially if I had a long night the night before. But if Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: I wanna be healthy, if I wanna be happy mentally, physically, if I wanna be able to pick my grandchildren up in in in my older days that are still down the road, I need to put that work in now. And I think if we want to have successful relationships, I wish we had the catalysts in our early lives that will help us put that work in while we're still young, if that makes sense. Bill Simpson: Absolutely. And you know, I s thinking about as you were talking, part of the obstacles is is our conditioning as men. You know, and when it goes against what we've been taught all our lives, what's what's been modeled for us all our lives, and then you know, you try to change that, you know, changing the mindset first and foremost and then doing the work. I mean that's a huge challenge. And some men, you know, guys I work with they don't have a clue. and they'll open up and then they, you know, they evolve like crazy and some it's terrifying. It's just too scary for them, too foreign. and I I have empi empathy for that. I get it. Like you said, who wants to go through all this pain in order to, you know, get to the other side, but if If we go along with this old conditioning of keeping all our stuff in and s shutting down, you know, being strong and handling it ourselves and I don't need any help or I'm j I gotta be a provider, you know, all those things are great, but f in terms of surviving life. But if you want a real connected relationship that's gonna last and that that's gonna thrive, then you have to add some components to that conditioning. You know, bringing in that vulnerability, being able to say, you know, that hurt, you know, instead of getting angry and yelling and screaming, you know, just being vulnerable, having empathy, listening, instead of getting defensive, you know, it's it's saying, Tell me more, how did I do that? You know, not necessarily saying it's right or wrong, it's just acknowledging your partner's experience. I call them quick fixes because, you know, you can practice these things, you can learn these things, and even if you're not feeling it right away, you can practice it until you do feel it, you know, kind of fake it till you make it. it's making that effort to do so. And and that's the good news in all this is that a lot of these behaviors you can learn them if you're open to to learning and and you and you practice them. And look, man, I've been doing this for thirty plus years, thirty five plus years, and you know, I still have my moments and and I still struggle at times. It's a it's you it's a lifelong thing. but each day the more you do it, you know, the better you get at it and you'll you'll reap the rewards, for sure. BigMike: Yeah, such an important point there that The the conditioning of men is the one that really stuck out because for us, I mean it and you brought it up very early on in the conversation that when you were with your with your dad, if you tried to open up about how you were feeling, about what you were going through, he pretty much just told you what we were all taught, especially in our generations, of well, suck it up and deal with it. And that's that's the condition that we take as men, excuse me, as we move. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: Not used to having a big boom sit in front of my face. I know you are from your radio days, but it's still new to me. But Bill Simpson: Yeah, I I still bump into it occasionally. BigMike: that's that condition that we take into our lives and into our relationships as we grow older. And I know when you you mentioned like Our pain comes out through like anger i in really bad, unfortunate situations, it comes out in violence and and but it comes out in anger, it comes out in addiction, it comes out in as as you described, overlapping relationships Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: and mine always came out in anger. I'd get so mad. my wife saw what was going on and and she said, you know, I I realized that when you were yelling and screaming and basically in panic and in flight or fight or flight, it's not so much I was mad or angry, I was just hurting. And when she expressed that to me, then it allowed me to be safe. when the trauma would come back to say I hurt right now and I can't I can't describe hurt. when I was playing football last year, I took a a a blind s blind side hit that it I still think it was a great clean hit, but I got hit. I got laid out. wind knocked out of me, bruised or damaged the ribs somehow. I don't think I broke them. But that's pain you can describe. You know, that's the pain that when you go Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: to the ER, I didn't go to the ER in this case, and they ask you, you know, with the the smiley face chart, you know, where do you put your pain? You can say it's there. Bill Simpson: Yeah. BigMike: But when it comes to emotional pain and and mental pain, there's no chart really. You just know you hurt and you can't describe it. You can't Explain it to someone. To me, it's like trying to explain to someone what salt tastes like. Salt is salty. And if that Bill Simpson: Yeah, yeah. BigMike: person has never experienced salt, they don't know what that saltiness is. And so what do we do? We just bottle it up. We bottle it up. And one of the things I've noticed, and this is one of the things that has brought me to where I'm at with the mentor sessions, is having those people in our lives that Have helped us help shape us to understand that pain as men, it's okay. And find a group of people, find a group of men who you feel safe saying, I'm hurting, dude. I'm alone right now. I'm scared. And not being worried of the the judgmental. And knowing that if they're gonna bust your balls on it, quite frankly, it's coming from a place of love. when they say something off the cuff, you know that's them opening the door for you to say, Okay, tell us about it. What are you going through? So Bill Simpson: And that's important. I mean what you just said and I I'm a facilitator on a it's a website called men's group dot com. I don't get paid for it, it's just part of my giving back and that's exactly what that is. It's a it's a place where guys can talk about anything. I mean, there's some deep, deep talk meetings on porn addiction, drug addiction, infidelity, you know people pleasing. I mean, I mine is about finding love after a breakup or divorce. but to have a group of guys that you can actually open up to and feel supported, be vulnerable and not be chastised by it, not be criticized by it, I mean support, support, support is so healing. just to know another guy f you know can feel your pain or has experienced something similar to you. And it's just like the whole world opens up because you feel like you you know, you're all alone in this. You've been alone, like you've had to hold it in and when you find out that there's tons of other guys out here f have felt the same way, you know, it it just opens up your mind. And, you know, I remember when you and I first talked and you said, Yeah, d w did we have the same mother or something like that, you know, it's BigMike: Right. Bill Simpson: like when you hear that, you're like, man, I'm not alone and then this this weight just comes off your shoulders. so having that gives you that safe place to open up and hopefully you can do that in relationship. And unfortunately sometimes st partners are scared when men open up and become vulnerable. They don't know what to do with it and you know, or they get criticized because they don't don't do that, you know, and I got that You know, from from an ex, you know, that didn't see it that way and it hurt because here I am opening up, being vulnerable and then bam. And then I'm like, man, it's not safe to do that just like it was with my dad. I couldn't open up to him and there it was again. BigMike: Well it's and and even going back further, not when you were with your mom. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: You know, your vulnerability will be used against you. And the other thing that when we first talked, having that shared moment, if you will, of being survivors of child sex abuse you don't ever want to hear about someone going through that. It's horrific. But As survivors, as as victims of that, we sit in that shame so much. and that that guilt and that we shame we we suffered as a kid for so much that when someone is willing to be vulnerable and open up like, yeah, I had experiences similar to that. I know what you I know what that was like. It helps unburden that shame or unburden it. It helps relieve that like okay, this pain and shame that you feel, we share in it. And I that's one of the things I I believe in the importance of and validity of of having shared experience with people, not going through trauma together, you know, in a perfect world we wouldn't go through that. But when you have shared experiences with people The moments of joy or the moments of pain. You know, grieving I think is easier when we grieve with family and friends because it's we're going through this cycle together and we know that we're not doing it alone. And so much of the man experience, the male experience is that loneliness that we feel that we can't be vulnerable. Our dad sells us suck it up, rub some dirt on it, walk it off. you know, our our friends and you know, you you pointed it out, an ex you had, you know, she pretty much just told you, you know, don't do that. Don't talk, you know, just bury it. What don't bring this to me. This is your problem, not mine. And and that's Bill Simpson: Yeah. Exactly. BigMike: how we as men Deal with a lot of that. Bill Simpson: Yeah. And that's part of the anger that builds up the resentment because whether we realize it or not, we want to get that out of us. We want to express it. A you either we don't know how, or again, we've been conditioned to suck it up. to get angry. instead of looking at that soft side of anger, which is the hurt that you said. And it's a lot safer to be angry and have a temper tantrum than it is to get quiet and say, you know, I'm hurting. And, you know, a lot of us have a long way to go to get there. and yet if you know, if you're willing to do it, do the work, it's it's possible you can do it. BigMike: Yeah. You you've gotta Bill Simpson: And it's a process. BigMike: be willing. You know, it that's such an important aspect of it is whenever you take those steps, you know the the first step of a of a thousand miles starts with one step. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: And you've got to be willing to take that first step and then look at it after the next step. And accept that sometimes you're going to have to step backwards. You might have to shift trails completely to get to your destination. But that doesn't mean that you fallen off, that doesn't mean you failed. It you're still on that journey to be a better husband, a better provider, a better father, better lover, better friend. Bill Simpson: Yeah. And that goes back to what you were saying, it's it's one step maybe forward, you know, two steps back, one step forward. But if we just take that one step back and think that's it, then we're never gonna get to that next step. That's how the brain works, that's how our humanness works. is it we will take a step back and they maybe take two steps forward and another step back. And when you know that's part of the the deal, then that can help help you keep going versus, see, this doesn't work or I can't do this. and you know, you think from a business perspective, you know, how many successful CEOs and, you know, people that own businesses had to fail before they became who they were, because they didn't give up. They just kept going. And that's how it works. And when you can understand that, then that's where grace comes in, self-compassion comes in. Say, I know this is hard. I'm trying to get there. I'm doing the best I can. I took a step back and that's okay. You know, I feel shame, I feel guilt, whatever the feeling is, you know, own it, honor it, and keep going. Don't let that stop you. Don't don't go into the old way of thinking of See, you know, I suck or I'm not good at this, I can't do this. That's the easy way out. And where it really shows your strength and courage is to take that next step forward. BigMike: Yeah. You know I'll just say, Bill, that you open my eyes to something as as we've talked and I I think many of the listeners know I'm still new on this journey. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: And I still live with that daily fear that like, well, this might not work out. But like you said, just keep going. Just just keep doing what you're doing. and you weren't necessarily speaking to me, but you were speaking to me. And and you gave me that reminder that like, yeah, people fail all the time, but that doesn't mean they fail their mission, they fail their journey. It's just it's a chance to reorient the map and figure out where where they're at and what they're doing. And I will say I greatly appreciate that. Like that was a great message that you hit home with me there that I need to take. probably need to hang on my wall that it it's gonna it's gonna be okay, you know, and to just keep going and and I I greatly appreciate that. as as we wrap up now, tell me where the the audience can find you, where they can reach out to you at. Bill Simpson: I'd say the easiest way is to go to my website and it's men on the path to love dot com. and there I have a link to my podcast. I have resources there, coaching opportunities. you know, there's an opportunity to talk to me for I call it a relationship clarity call where we can talk and see where you are in your relationship, no pressure, nothing, try not to sell you anything. I'm just here to help in any way I can to help you rebuild move forward after a breakup or divorce. It's a scary place to be BigMike: Thanks, Bill. Bill Simpson: sometimes and it takes a lot of courage to you know, to get some help and and move forward and I get that. BigMike: you had to tear down what you built to build up what you ha are now. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. BigMike: And I I was thinking of your Rafiki moment, if you will. And you were talking about how you went from what was it, twenty seven room house or or something like that. Bill Simpson: Mm. Yeah. Had a big house. BigMike: Big house, you had this great career that opened up all sorts of doors and and you got to see inside and probably meet some amazing people that the rest of us could only dream to meet. Bill Simpson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. BigMike: And then there you were living, you know, couch surfing at a friend's house, for lack of a better word to put it. well, yeah, I I I I'm sure you paid him rent. I I'm I'm sure you paid him rent. But Bill Simpson: He I paid him rent, but I had a room. I know what you I know what you said. BigMike: that transitioned there to where you were able to have that moment alone in meditation, which I think is very important for all of us to do. I think meditation, I think journaling. I told you how before we got started how I can sit in the garage and turn on jazz music, jazz or blues music, have a cigar and just sit in that moment, and that's a great place for me to find clarity. But Bill Simpson: Yeah, man. BigMike: it was in that moment you found your foundation was ready to rebuild and you found how to rebuild it. I hope we get to carry on and continue these conversations in the future because I think it's such an important lesson for for men to learn. and I think it will help a lot of men that are struggling in a lot of different avenues of their life, not just the relationships, but in just trying to be the best selves. So I appreciate that. Any parting words, Bill, that you have for us? Bill Simpson: Well just wanna say thank you again for having me on. Mike, you you you're just so open and vulnerable and and our conversation. I appreciate that. You know, you're you're giving us permission and other men permission to do what you're doing, having that conversation, talk about it, get it out of your head, talk about it, you know, connect with someone. you don't have to go through all this alone and there's there's help out there for you. And I just Can encourage you, Mike, to keep on doing what you're doing. I I love the whole idea behind the mentor sessions and I wish you much success with what you're doing. BigMike: Thank you, Bill. I appreciate it. Again, everybody, this has been Bill Simpson on the Mentor Sessions. please share your thoughts in the comments section. We'd love to hear your thoughts. And we'll read we'll respond when we can. And like this video, share it with with other men and subscribe so we can get this message out to all the men out there. We appreciate ya. And we'll see you next time on the mentor sessions.