Latest / UK Column Radio / From the Archives: UK Column News — 22nd January 2020

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From the Archives: UK Column News — 22nd January 2020 · UK Column Radio

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon. It's Wednesday, the 22nd of January, 2020, just
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: after one o'clock. Welcome to UK Column News. Your host today,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Mike Robinson, myself, Brian Gerrish. Well, the young are advising
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the old.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. So Greta, of course, at Davos, as we
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: mentioned on Monday. Let's be clear. She said we don't
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: need a low carbon economy. We don't need to lower emissions.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Our emissions have to stop and to stay if we
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: are to have a chance to stay below the one
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: and a half degrees C target. So our emissions have
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  Speaker 2: to stop. We've got to stop breathing. Brian is basically
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  Speaker 2: what it's all about.
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  Speaker 1: Right. And this this young lady is trained in climate
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  Speaker 1: change and she's trained in economics as well, presumably.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Well, at the age of, what age is she? 16, 17.
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  Speaker 2: And pretty incredible. She said, until we have the technologies
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  Speaker 2: that at scale can put our emissions to minus, then
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  Speaker 2: we must forget about net zero. We need real zero.
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  Speaker 2: So I can't imagine what that means other than no
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: humanity at all. So there you go. That was her position. Well,
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  Speaker 2: Mark Carnage was there as well, although... impossible to find
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  Speaker 2: it on the World Economic Forum website or the YouTube channel.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: But he was reiterating once again the things that he'd
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: been saying in the run up to this. Basically, you
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: need to change your position on climate change if you're
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: a business or in your financial sector or else. At
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the core of the system now, these questions are being
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  Speaker 2: asked if you're on the right side or the wrong side.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And if you're on the wrong side, what are you
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: going to do about it? So this is his position.
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  Speaker 1: No more discussion.
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  Speaker 2: You're either in or you're out.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And if you're out, we're going to deal with you.
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  Speaker 1: You will fail.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, you will fail, yes. So this is becoming the question,
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  Speaker 2: what's your plan to get to net zero carbon emissions?
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  Speaker 2: That will determine where capital is flowing, obviously influenced by
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: public opinion pressure and government policy as well. So government
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  Speaker 2: policy comes last. Public opinion comes first. Pressure in the meantime. So,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: you know, as I say, Mark Carney's... contribution wasn't really
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: highlighted terribly strongly on the World Economic Forum website or
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  Speaker 2: on the YouTube channel. So I had a look in
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: mainstream media to see what they were saying about it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: And there was, well, there was a little report on
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the Telegraph and there was a little report on Yahoo News.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: But other than that, there was only an interview with
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: them from Bloomberg because Bloomberg has now set up a
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  Speaker 2: green section on its website. And as you can see there,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: it tells us down the left hand side how naughty
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: we are being. So, you know, it tells us about
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: carbon emissions. It tells us about, there's a scrolling sidebar
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  Speaker 2: at the left there, all coloured green, tells us all
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  Speaker 2: about how many billion tonnes of CO2 we're pushing into
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the atmosphere. It tells us how many soccer fields of
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  Speaker 2: forests that we're cutting down each day and so on.
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  Speaker 2: So it is really good. As you can see, the
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  Speaker 2: numbers change. It's fantastic. So I'm really impressed with that. Anyway,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: so it was doom and gloom at Davos with, I
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: have to say, sorry, one exception. And that was Donald Trump,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: who in typical Trumpian styles, I leave it to everybody
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to decide for themselves what they think about this. But
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: while everybody was saying, you know, the world is ending
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and we've got to stop breathing. This is what Trump
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: had to say.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: It's probably the reason I ran for president more than
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: any other thing, because I couldn't understand why we were
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  Speaker 3: losing all of these jobs to other countries at such
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: a rapid rate. And it got worse and worse. And
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  Speaker 3: I think it's probably the primary reason that I ran.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: But there are other reasons also. And to replace with
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  Speaker 3: a new system that puts workers before the special interests.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And the special interests will do just fine, but the
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  Speaker 3: workers come first. This is not a time for pessimism.
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  Speaker 3: This is a time for optimism. Fear and doubt is
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  Speaker 3: not a good thought process because this is a time
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: for tremendous hope and joy and optimism and action. But
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  Speaker 3: to embrace the possibilities of tomorrow, we must reject the
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  Speaker 3: perennial prophets of doom, and their predictions of the apocalypse.
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  Speaker 3: They are the heirs of yesterday's foolish fortune tellers. And
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  Speaker 3: I have them, and you have them, and we all
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  Speaker 3: have them. And they want to see us do badly,
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  Speaker 3: but we don't let that happen. They predicted an overpopulation
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  Speaker 3: crisis in the 1960s, mass starvation in the 70s, and
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  Speaker 3: an end of oil in the 1990s. These alarmists always
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  Speaker 3: demand the same thing, absolute power to dominate, transform and
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  Speaker 3: control every aspect of our lives.
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  Speaker 2: So that was his position. I don't know what you
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: make of that. It's very interesting, isn't it, Mike?
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  Speaker 1: Because just when you get to the point where you
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: think that Trump is completely off the rails, he comes
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: in and what comes out of his mouth makes common sense.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: What he's talking about is real. We've got special interests.
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  Speaker 1: We've got all of these gloom and doom merchants who
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: predicted that we're going to be wiped off the face
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  Speaker 1: of the earth. It was HIV at one stage. Everybody,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: millions of people were going to be dying. And of course,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: we haven't seen it because it's fake news. And he's
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  Speaker 1: highlighting it in front of these very dangerous people who
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: are the special interest group he's talking about. But is
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: he just playing to the world stage or does he
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  Speaker 1: actually believe what he's saying.
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  Speaker 2: Oh i think he's if he's playing to any stage
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  Speaker 2: it's a domestic stage uh he's of course uh heading
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: into an election year um and that's uh that's a
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  Speaker 2: key part of everything that he says i suppose but
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: but you know it was a pretty strong message that
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  Speaker 2: uh would find itself at 180 degrees to everything else
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  Speaker 2: that greta and mark harney and the rest were saying
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  Speaker 2: so so we'll see what the response to that is
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: i know that the bbc did a big section on
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: uh on whether there was any fact in his speech. But, well, anyway.
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  Speaker 1: We'll be coming on to the BBC in a minute.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I'd be very interested to see what other people
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: think about the Trump speech. Now, speaking of Trump and
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: the sort of schizophrenia that we've seen in the Trump
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: administration over the last couple of years where Trump says
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  Speaker 2: one thing and the administration does the other or says
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the other, and over the last couple of UK column
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: news programmes we've been highlighting the fact that Boris Johnson
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: seems to be heading in the same direction and we
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: were making the point that there seemed to be no
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: agreement between the joint statements between the UK, France and
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Germany over the Iran, the JCPOA situation and what Boris
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: was saying directly by himself to the BBC. Well, here's
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: potentially another example of it because of course on Monday
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: we were talking about the Iran conference which was going
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: on in Germany, in Berlin And while on the sidelines
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: of that, then Boris met with Vladimir Putin and the
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  Speaker 2: UK government statement that came out of that was very,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: very clear. No normalisation of bilateral arrangements. They said the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: prime minister met President Putin on the margins of the conference.
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  Speaker 2: He was clear that there's been no change in the
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  Speaker 2: UK's position on Salisbury, which is a reckless use of
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  Speaker 2: chemical weapons and a brazen attempt to murder innocent people
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  Speaker 2: on UK soil. He, that's Boros, said that such an
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: attack must not be repeated. The Prime Minister said that
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: they both had a responsibility to address issues of international security,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: including Libya, Syria, Iraq and Iran. And the Prime Minister
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: said there would be no normalisation of a bilateral relationship
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  Speaker 2: until Russia ends the destabilising activity that threatens the UK
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  Speaker 2: and our allies and undermines the safety of our citizens.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and our collective security. So that seems to be a
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  Speaker 2: pretty clear statement. No detente between the UK and Russia.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it would be a point if I could understand
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  Speaker 1: anything that was coming out of Boris's mouth.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the interesting thing is that the Russian kind of
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  Speaker 2: the meeting doesn't seem to tally. So Dmitry Peskov here, well,
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  Speaker 2: he was saying that it's was a short meeting, okay,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: but at the same time quite constructive with elements of
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  Speaker 2: conciliatory approach. Let's put it that way, he said. He
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: said that British reports did not convey the atmosphere of
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  Speaker 2: the meeting. At least the essence of the contact is
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  Speaker 2: clearly different from the essence of the Downing Street report
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: on the conversation. We can state that. We were surprised
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: by commentaries from Downing Street about a meeting of Johnson
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  Speaker 2: and Putin. This was another high-level source being reported by TASS.
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  Speaker 2: To begin with, it was Johnson himself who was seeking
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  Speaker 2: contact with the Russian side. Secondly, his tone was closer
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  Speaker 2: to conciliatory. There were no harsh statements whatsoever. Thirdly, the
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  Speaker 2: main message of the British prime minister was a bid
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  Speaker 2: to improve relations with Russia. So again, it's unclear exactly
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: what's going on here. The British government seeming to brief
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  Speaker 2: differently to perhaps what actually happened. But well, maybe it
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  Speaker 2: was Russian disinformation, maybe the foreign officers?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if it's TASS, we're not allowed to
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  Speaker 1: consider it to be factual at all, according to the BBC, Mike.
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  Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. So who knows? But certainly there seems to
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: be a difference in what actually happened to what was
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  Speaker 2: reported by the British government. And if that was a
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: meeting which was instigated by Boris Johnson, then perhaps that's
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  Speaker 2: a positive thing. Maybe the perhaps the British government doesn't
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  Speaker 2: really want to just simply doesn't want to. present any
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  Speaker 2: positive information with respect to Russia at all, no matter
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  Speaker 2: what's going on.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the agenda. I found the photograph there so fascinating, Mike,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: because you look at Putin, who, to my mind, is
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: looking at Boris Johnson with a sort of mild amusement.
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  Speaker 1: And just, you know, look at the difference. Putin's there.
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  Speaker 1: He's generally immaculately dressed. Boris is there with his scrumpled
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  Speaker 1: shirt and his hair all over the place. And you
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: just pick up that Putin is looking at him with
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  Speaker 1: mild amusement. He doesn't regard this man as being a
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  Speaker 1: serious politician, which of course he's not.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Well, if you like what the UK Column does
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and you'd like to support us, then please head over
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: to ukcolumn.org slash community where there are options to help
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: us out there. Indeed.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Well, let's come up with the subject of Stephan Sutherland. Now,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: this was some excellent investigative work done by our own
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: David Scott of the UK column, back in 2017, the
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: tragic death of this young man that relatives and friends
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: said was absolutely not investigated properly. And as time went on,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: things seemed to get darker as people began to point
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a finger at Police Scotland, saying they weren't investigating properly.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: And in the end, it was... almost as if the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: police were saying, we don't want to investigate this. We
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: think it was suicide, really, or certainly an unexplained death.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm just going to put the big banner up
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: there that UK column really got stuck into this one,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: including meeting Stefan's close family and coming to the conclusion
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that something very nasty was going on. Well, we've got
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: to say there is... There's been some really good reports
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: that have come out in the last few days because
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: apparently Police Scotland are going to put a 15 officer
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: team into Libster to reinvestigate. And they're even going to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: have a caravan in a public location so that people
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: can drop in to give evidence and report to the police.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And this needs to happen because if we take this
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: report from the Press and Journal back in 2019, December 2019,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: they were carrying the story not only about the number
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of witnesses the police had failed to speak to, but
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: also the fact that witnesses were saying the police were
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: more or less listening to what they had to say
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and then saying, we don't want to hear that, we
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: want to hear this. So it seems that something very
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: special has been happening in the background. A lot of
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: pressure has come on this case. Have we had a
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: hand in getting that new investigation? I have to say
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I think we have. And also this is a classic
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: example of why one single police force for the whole
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of Scotland is so dangerous because there's no proper separation
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: of the powers. of powers and when there is a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: complaint made against the police, of course, it's that police
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: force investigating itself. But these are officers brought in from
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: different areas to investigate the Libster case and we will
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: now wait to see what happens.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Now, if you think back to 2015 and 2016, if
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: you remember, David Cameron was running around the EU speaking
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: to all the various heads of state of all the
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: other member states, wanting to renegotiate Britain's relationship with the EU,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: produced a white paper called The Best of Both Worlds,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: which was all about Britain's new relationship within a reformed
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: European Union. The whole reform issue of the EU has
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: been on the cards since then. We've heard Guy Verhofstadt
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: talking about it when he was speaking at the Liberal
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Democrat conference. Well, this reform agenda has now taken shape
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: in the form of this Europe Day on the 9th
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of May. Now, this was announced today and it's entitled
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Shaping the Conference on the Future of Europe. So the
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: European Parliament are utterly divided about this. They basically, in general,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: are saying it doesn't go nearly far enough. So this
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: is going to be a two year process of what's
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: being described as town hall style debates. And they're hoping
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: to reinvigorate the EU and people's love of the EU
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: following Brexit, because this has introduced some doubts into some
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: people's minds on the continent, apparently. Guy Verhofstadt is going
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to lead this process. And the European Commission has said
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that it should be all about reaching out to the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: silent majority of Europeans, empowering them and giving them the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: space to speak up. And they're saying that this is
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: essential for European democracy. Now many people would say that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: the terms EU and democracy are mutually exclusive but nonetheless
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the criticism from the European Parliament was in general that
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: it wasn't very ambitious, it wasn't very clear, it wasn't
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: very outspoken and it wasn't addressing what should be coming
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: out of the conference. This is the document that they're
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: talking about and well the Green MEP Daniel Front said
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I expect it clear commitment from the Commission to treaty changes,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: so that he's calling for changes to the actual treaties. But, well,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: there was another voice in the European Parliament which perhaps
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: was speaking with a bit more sanity, and that was
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Gunnar Beck. Now, I appreciate that Gunnar Beck is from
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Alternative for Deutschland, and some people may not particularly like
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: that party or where they stand, but nonetheless, Just have
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: a listen to this and decide for yourselves whether he
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: has a point.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: The Commission President now proposes a conference on the future
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: of Europe to make the EU more democratic. She mentions
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: an economy for the people, yet also proposes more taxes
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: and an EU Green Deal for one trillion euros plus.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: when EU influence on world climate is minimal. EU democracy
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: is democracy neither for nor by the European peoples. Sigmund
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Freud spoke of flucht in die Krankheit or escape into
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: illness to describe a neurotic avoidance of an unsatisfactory reality.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Rather than face the struggle to regain health, the neurotic
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: patient is secretly desiring to remain ill. Is there a
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: better diagnosis of the EU today? Faced with the menacing
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: economic truth, the EU Commission is reaching for a narcotic
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: overdose of EU integration to take an extended holiday from reality.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Now, the speaker in the European Parliament was not terribly
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: impressed with that speech, as you would imagine. I'm not
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: sure whether Gunnar Beck is attempting to take over from
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Nigel Farage as the centre of parliamentary hatred. But nonetheless,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I think some of the things he said there were
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: bang on the money.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I found it fascinating that you could hear laughter
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: in the background. And I don't remember somebody, even if
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: they were really challenging the regime, of hearing laughter. So
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: he was using black humour to great effect to take
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that organisation apart and people were laughing. I think that's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: an important breakthrough.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. But of course, his key point is that
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: the reform that the EU is aiming towards is greater
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: and greater integration, moving towards a more and more federal structure.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And so clearly, many of his colleagues in the European
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Parliament feel that they're not going far enough and fast enough.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: They're following the Guy Verhofstadt line. He is trying to say, look,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: this is nuts. Madness. Yeah, absolute madness. And, well, our
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: opinion is that, of course, indeed it is. But, well,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: leave people to decide for themselves. Now, let's come back
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: to the UK then and online harms. Now, of course,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: we know that the online harms white paper that was
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: published last year has been listed in the Queen's Speech.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: as becoming legislation in this parliamentary session. Well, the information
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: commissioner has published this age appropriate design, a code of
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: practice for online services. And this final version is, as
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: it says, there is to be laid before Parliament. Now,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: this is a set of 15 standards, which you might
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: say are interim steps before the full legislation comes out
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: later on in the year. a set of 15 standards
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: that online services should meet to protect children's privacy. So
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the code sets out the standards expected of those responsible
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: for designing, developing or providing online services like apps, connected toys,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: social media platforms, online games, educational websites and streaming services.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: It covers services likely to be accessed by children and
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: which process their data. The code is going to require
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: digital services to automatically provide children with a built-in baseline
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: of data protection Whenever they download a new app, game
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: or visit a website, that means that privacy settings should
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: be set to high by default and nudge techniques should
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: not be used to encourage children to weaken their settings.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Location settings that allow the world to see where a
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: child is should also be switched off by default. Data
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: collection and sharing should be minimised. and profiting that can
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: allow children to be served up targeted content should also
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: be switched off by default. Now, this is interesting enough
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: as far as it goes. This is what Elizabeth Denham,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the information commissioner, had to say. There are laws to
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: protect children in the real world. We need our laws
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: to protect children in the digital world too. Okay, that's
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: fair enough. But what I thought was interesting about this, Brian,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: is that the standards of this code are rooted in
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the General Data Protection Regulation, that's the GDPR, and the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: code was introduced by the Data Protection Act 2018. The
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Secretary of State will now need to lay the code
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: before Parliament for its approval as soon as possible. But
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: before that, the government intends to notify the European Commission
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: of the code under the requirements of the Technical Standards
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: and Regulations Directive 2015-1535-EU, and observe the resultant three-month standstill period.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So what we have here is some proposals from the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Information Commissioner, which will go before Parliament, will be voted
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: on by Parliament. But they are based on the GDPR,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: which of course is a European directive. But that's fair enough,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I suppose, as far as it goes, because we signed
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: up to that while we were still members of the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: European Union. But we're leaving the European Union on the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: 31st of January, or so we're told. But nonetheless, we
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: are going to be communicating with the European Commission about
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: what this is and what it does. And we are
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: going to be observing the three-month standstill period that's defined
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: in the European legislation. So therefore, we're keeping our systems
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: in sync with the EU. We're following the EU procedures.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: And while this seems to demonstrate what we were saying
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: about the need for the UK and the EU to
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: stay in sync until such times as we have the
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: future relationship at least nailed down. And, well, you know,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: anybody that thought that we were actually leaving on the 31st, therefore,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: was sadly mistaken.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Very mistaken. Somebody said in our chat box, you mean
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: we have to track everything you're doing to protect the children,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: which I think is a very interesting question because certainly
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: in UK we know the government is absolutely not protecting
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: the physical well-being of children. The abuse continues, the cover-ups continue.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: We get no proper outcome on how we're going to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: stop the abuse of children. But online we suddenly have
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: this massive attention and effort to stop children getting into
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: bad areas of the internet.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And Elizabeth Denham went on to say,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: in an age when children learn how to use an
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: iPad before they ride a bike, it's right that organisations
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: designing and developing online services do so with the best
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: interests of children in mind. Children's privacy must not be
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: traded in the chase for profit. I'm sure there are
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: quite a number of adults that feel the same about them.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: You know, the question is why this is special legislation
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: for children. It seems that humankind as a whole is
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: being exploited by the people that are tracking behaviours on
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the internet. And the government are part of that, of course. Absolutely.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: But this is not necessarily beneficial to anybody. Never mind,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: you know, children need to be protected, but actually quite
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of adults need to be protected from this
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: as well. Indeed.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So let's switch back to the BBC and just a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: phenomenal article by the BBC, What happens when we're too
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: old to be useful? And I've got quite a lot
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: of material to do with this article because I think we,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the public, really need to understand what the BBC is
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: into here. But I'm going to ask the question, is
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the BBC seeding the idea of a final solution for
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: old people past their use? And if you think that's
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit strong, let's work our way through. and
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: see what is in this article. Now, the journalist is
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Tim Harford. He's a BBC journalist, but he's an economic expert.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: He gives talks. And it's a long article. I've taken
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: quite a lot of the material because the public needs
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: to really understand it. This is how it begins. I
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: customarily killed old women. They all died there by the
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: big river. I didn't used to wait until they were
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: completely dead to bury them. The women were afraid of me.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: No wonder.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: That's the account of a man from the Ashe, an
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: indigenous tribe in Eastern Paraguay, as told to anthropologist Kim
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Hill and Magdalena Hurtado. Grandmothers helped with chores and babysitting,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: but when they got too old to be useful, you
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: couldn't be sentimental. So the BBC starts, of course, with
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: an image, which is a loving image, an elderly couple
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: looking over the countryside, arms around each other, and then
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they are into the murder of elderly people. And I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: think that image and the start of the article very
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: much planned. So what does it go on to say?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: It says this, Brutally, the usual method was an axe
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to the head. For the old men, ashen custom dictated
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a different fate. They were sent away and told never
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to return. What obligations do we owe.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: To our elders?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It's as question as old as humankind. And the answers
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: have varied widely, at least if surviving traditional societies are
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: any guide. So into people's head, we're drifting the idea
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that maybe killing elderly people because they're a burden on
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: society is the way to go. Let's follow it through.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: As another anthropologist, Jared Diamond, points out, the Ashe are
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: hardly outliers amongst the Kulong in Papua New Guinea. When
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: a woman's husband died, it was her son's solemn duty
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to strangle her. In the Arctic, Chuchky encouraged old people
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to kill themselves with the promise of rewards in the afterlife.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, this article fully available for children of any age, Mike,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: by the BBC. And he goes on, what does seem
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: common is the expectation that until your body let you
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: down completely, you'd keep working. That's no longer true. Many
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: of us expect to reach a certain age, then receive
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a pension, money from the state or our former employers,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: not in return for work today, but in recognition of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: our work in the past. And stay with me. No
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: amount of saving changes the fact we'll always need current
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: workers to generate the wealth to support current pensioners. whether
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that's through paying taxes, renting properties owned by retirees or
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: working for companies in which pension funds are the major shareholders.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Some think we'll need a more radical shift in our
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: attitudes in old age. There's talk of retirement itself being retired.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Is he talking about money or is he talking about
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the people in that sentence?
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I wonder.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: He goes on, perhaps like our ancestors, we'll be expected
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to work for as long as we're able, but the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: varied customs of ancestral society should give us pause because
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: they appear to have evolved in response to some discomfortingly
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: hard-nosed trade-offs. Whether elders could expect lovingly pre-chewed food or
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: an axe by the big river seems to have depended
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: on whether the benefits they offered the tribe outweighed the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: costs of supporting them. Now, if you get a warm
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: feeling about what this man is talking about, of course,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: what the BBC did not discuss is the anthropologists themselves.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: So the first two names here were Kim Hill and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Magdalena Hurtado. So I did a little bit of research
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: into them. And the first thing I found for Kim
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Hill was indigenous people accusing him of helping to destroy them.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: by saying that none of the hidden tribes should be
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: allowed to remain out of sight. We, the undersigned organisations,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: wholeheartedly reject the proposal of US anthropologists Robert Walker and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Kim Hill to forcibly contact uncontacted tribes. We can't leave
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: these people alone. We've got to get in amongst them.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: The proposal is both dangerous and illegal and undermines the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: rights that indigenous peoples have fought long and hard for. So,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: This seems to be genuine. You follow it through. You
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: are indeed dealing with people from indigenous tribes. Great concerns
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: about what's in the mind of Kim Hill, never mind
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: what he's been prepared to give to the BBC. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: then if we follow it through, we can come to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Professor Anna Magdalena Hurtado. Now, she's part of Arizona State
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: University School of Human Evolution. She's going to help us evolve, Mike,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: which is good, and change socially. But she's also involved
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: with St Aidan's College, Durham University. I'd encourage people to
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: freeze this screen and read the details. Some of the
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Newspeak language is basically not understandable. So I'm going to
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: leave you to have a look at that. But this
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: was part of the lecture. where it said this thus
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: lessons learned from hunter gatherers may be key to 21st
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: century global health and now I think we get the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: idea of where this BBC article is coming from because
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: of course it's not as simple that the journalist has
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: just written it He's brought in the thought patterns of
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: these anthropologists working behind the scenes. And what are we
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: going to learn? That the way to solve the pension
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: problem is to put an axe in the head of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: our elderly people. This is the third of the anthropologists mentioned.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Jared Diamond, exceptionally controversial figure, which I'll leave our viewers
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and listeners to research. But we'll follow it up with
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: an ending here. by tim harford he says today societies
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: are rich and sedentary by comparison to the ashay tribe
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we can afford the rising cost of pensions if we
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: choose but there are other differences too once we relied
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: on elders to store knowledge and instruct the young now
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: knowledge dates quickly and who needs grandma when we have
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: schools and wikipedia is this why we've got um gretta
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: thunderbird in front of us. Is this why we've got
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a 17-year-old who knows nothing lecturing on a world stage?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it is because if you listen to teenagers today,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: one of the views expressed, I'm talking about school-age teenagers,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: one of the views expressed, of course, is that their
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: parents and grandparents are stealing their futures. I don't believe
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: it's a coincidence that this article is coming out now
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: because this is the message which is being pushed into
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: the minds, forcibly pushed into the minds of young people
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: at the moment, that older people are stealing their futures.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I think, as I've said, I think I've said it
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: on this programme already, if you go back five, ten years,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: when we've seen previous attempts to bring the euthanasia programmes in,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: that there's been a pushback from society against that. And
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I wonder, in 20 years' time, when this current generation
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: is getting to decision age, whether they would be maybe
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: perhaps not so willing to push back against that policy.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: We must hope so, Mike.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: But of course, what we're showing here is blatant and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: vicious propaganda by the BBC. I'll just finish off the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: bit under the grandma bit. It says, we might hope
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: we're long past the days when levels of respect for
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: old people unconsciously track some balance of costs.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And benefits.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Still, if we believe a dignified old age is right,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: perhaps we should be saying that as clearly and as
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: often as possible. Now, the theme through this article was
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to open with elderly people being viciously killed because they're
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: no longer productive, they no longer contribute. That was the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: routine in indigenous tribes. The underlying message we now know
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: is that we should take the wisdom of those tribes
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and bring it back into our societies. And so this
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: is some of the most disgusting journalism I think I've
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: ever seen by the BBC and encourage our viewers and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: listeners to have a look at the article, judge it
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: for yourselves. But if you feel as upset as we
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: do about this one, take the BBC to task, because
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: as we'll be hearing in a minute, the BBC is
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: crowing about its financial reports for year ending 2019. Now one.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Thing that we are pretty careful about or as careful
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: as we possibly can be when we produce these programs
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: is copyright. But unfortunately Monday's UK called News attracted a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: copyright strike. So this is what YouTube had to say.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Copyright claim. So let's have a look at who was
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: making the claim. Well it was an organization called Passion Distribution. And, well,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I was particularly surprised by this one because it was
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the clip that we played out from Question Time, which,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: of course, is a BBC program funded by the taxpayer. And,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you know, OK, we were a bit of fair dealing
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: going on there because we took the shortest clip that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: we could and we were commenting on the video itself. So,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we believe it was fair use of the content.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: But nonetheless, In the case of YouTube, it's pointless sort
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: of challenging this particular type of strike. But I was
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: fascinated that the copyright holder was not the BBC, that
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: it was this organisation, Passion Distribution.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Just to clarify, Mike, was not BBC Question Time. Was
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: it Question Time, this one?
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: This is Question Time, yes, but the copyright owner was
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: not the BBC. So this is Passion Distribution. delightful company,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: and they do all kinds of stuff. They had a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: picture of Meghan Markle and Harry on their website for
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: some reason. So what's the reason for this? Well, it
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: turns out that Passion Distribution is owned by this company,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: and that is Tinopolis, who is an international TV production
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: and distribution group. And it turns out that Tinopolis is
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: the owner of Mentorn, and it's Mentorn that produces Question Time.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So Apparently, it's not a BBC programme at all. It's
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: just played out on the BBC. It's produced by Mentorn.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: They own the copyright. And that's why we ended up
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: with the strike. I just wanted to highlight that because
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not certain that people necessarily realise that so much
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: BBC content is produced by commercial organisations.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: And it's not openly declared. We're sold that as if
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it's come from the BBC. But in fact, public money
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: is just being given away to this organisation called To
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: produce some questionable material, which is why we reported it
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: in the first place. Staying with the BBC, this was
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: another very interesting article. Super rich elites making London off limits.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And this was just from a few hours ago. Fascinating headline.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: What's the BBC got to say about this? Well, of course,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the BBC doesn't have anything to say about it, as
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: we shall see. London has become the epicentre of the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: elites in the UK, making off limits for young people
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: from poorer backgrounds, says a social mobility charity. The Sutton
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Trust says the high cost of housing has become a
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: social barrier. So this article is put out as if
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: it's BBC News, but it's not. It's free advertising for
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: a charity. But the whole subject is fascinating as we
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: dig into the Sutton Trust. Interesting logo. Let's have a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: look at what the Trust founder Sir Peter Lample says
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: in the BBC article. The idea of going to London
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: to move up in the world has become a myth.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: He says those that benefit most from opportunities in London
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: were either born there or are economically privileged from other
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: parts of the country. And the report mentioned by the BBC,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: which is the Sutton Trust report itself, elites in the
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: UK pulling away. What does that document say? Well, it
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: says a lot, but this is a little bit from it.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: It highlights the rise of the ultra-rich in London in
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: recent decades with their wealth often deriving from finance and banking.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit of the obvious, but
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: there we are. The study warns of a lack of
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: self-awareness amongst this wealthy elite who would back meritocratic benefits
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and not see themselves as being particularly advantaged. So this
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: is all very good. But who is actually running the
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Sutton Trust? Well, you can have a look on their website.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Here is Our People and their bottom left is Sir
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Peter Lample, chairman and founder of What is his background?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Do go and have a look, but we'll summarise it.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: It's the Sutton Company, but it's also private equity. And
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong here, Mike, but I think
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: private equity is essential. Big money and hedge funds and...
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And asset stripping other companies, yes. Right.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So that's interesting. Here's number two, Tim Bunting, Vice Chair,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Balderton Capital. So he's in with money previously from Goldman Sachs.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: So Oh dear, we seem to have found another banker.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Here we've got Sir Peter Gershon, fascinating man, encourage people
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: to have a look at the site. He's the chair
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: of the National Grid, but he's also chair of the
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Aircraft Carrier Alliance. That's building our two aircraft carriers. And
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: he's also chair of the Dreadnought Alliance, which is building
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the new ballistic nuclear submarines. And he previously worked for
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Tate and Lyle. So He's absolutely at the highest level
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: of the defence industry and government, right at the top. Well,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Lady Susan Lample's in there as well. We don't see
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: a picture of her, unfortunately, but her background is very
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: much press and media, 25 years anchor, reporter, producer, ABC,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: CBS and Fox.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Not British media then?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Not British media, but if you need a helping hand
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: with getting your story out, In the BBC, it's probably
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: a good lady to go to. Oliver Quick, what's his background? Oh,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: it's private equity and venture capital. And then we've got
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Professor Louise Richardson. Well, she's vice chancellor of Oxford University,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: but also involved with the Carnegie Foundation. And she's an expert, supposedly,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: on international security and terrorism. So these are the people
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: who believe their own reality, believe in meritocracy. They're taking
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: people from lowly starts in life and making them into
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the very thing that they say we should be stopping.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So I found this very confusing. But when you got
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: into the education team, it gets better. I just happened
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: to choose Mick Halloran. I'm sure he's a very nice man.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: But he's involved with credit cards, Capital One UK. But
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: then you see that previously he was a special advisor
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to the Deputy Prime Minister, the Right Honourable John Prescott.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: But weren't these the people making the very policies that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: were bringing these more wealthy banking interests into London in
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: the first place?
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Indeed, they were. So there we are. BBC article. If
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you take it on face value, it has one meaning.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: But if you actually look at the little clues in
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the article, you find that this was another complete spin
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: story by the BBC. So how are their accounts doing? Well,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: it's good news because the BBC income has dropped 173
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: million and operating costs go up as it sinks into
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: a 69 million deficit for 2019. Now, that was a very,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: very quick analysis by our very own David Scott early
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: this morning. We'll be doing more work on this document,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: which is fascinating. It also includes a review of the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: spiritual beliefs of BBC staff. I'm not sure whether you
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: get ranked depending on what belief you've got. Maybe if
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: you're dark arts, you go to the top. And if
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: you're if you're a Muslim or Christian, you get pushed
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to the bottom. Possibly we'll see. But let's have a
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: look at the sort of material. Well, of course, it's
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: all propaganda about how well the BBC is doing. number
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: one here to provide impartial news and information to help
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: people understand and engage with the world around them. Well,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: we've just shown a bit of that impartial news and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: information and it doesn't stand up. And this is what
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: they say about themselves. Today, the BBC provides an unrivaled
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: level of local, regional, national, international news and current affairs.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: We remain the most trusted source of news in this
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: country and the most chosen for impartiality But the news
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: landscape around us has undergone some profound changes in recent years.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Trust is at a premium. There's been an increase in
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: scepticism about experts, elites and institutions. Generational political social differences
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: have widened markedly and our society feels more fragmented and divided.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: That's largely due to the BBC reporting, of course. Political
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: partisanship has grown and technology and social media have contributed
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to a polarisation of our national debate. Fake news has
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: blurred the line between facts and disinformation and undermined faith
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: in traditional media. My goodness, they're running a little bit scared.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: And here's politics, because, of course, they've got three little problems.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: pie charts saying that if you want to understand politics
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: then join 70% of young people who come to the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: BBC to learn what politics is about and here's our
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: very own question time which they're parading but we now
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: know is not even a BBC production so we're going
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: to label this sickening self-serving rhetoric and propaganda by the
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: BBC I think there's some cracks in the organisation, Mike.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I think we are really starting to see the BBC
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: coming under proper scrutiny. And of course, if enough people
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: take on the BBC, could we be in the happy
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: position where the BBC folds?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Unlikely, but it would be at least a step forward.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Damaged brand, at least. Well, it'd be a step forward
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: if they no longer receive the licence fee. And they've
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: got to at least operate in a proper competitive market.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you're sitting there thinking, what do we do
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: about this? Well, if you're my age or older, I
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: suggest you start getting on the phone and email and
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Twitter to take on the BBC as to why they're
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: promoting elderly people getting an axe in their heads to
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: save the state money and pensions. We'll leave it there.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks very much for joining us. We'll be back at
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the same time.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: On Friday. Bye-bye.