Latest / Man in America Podcast / How Much Longer Can They Hold Off a Financial Collapse? — Dr. Kirk Elliott Interview

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How Much Longer Can They Hold Off a Financial Collapse? — Dr. Kirk Elliott Interview · Man in America Podcast

• 1:33
  Seth Holehouse: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Man in America. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. So as we look at what's happening in the financial world, so Moody's just recently downgraded, The US credit, which is not good. And there's all these other different reports coming out, consumer spending, and every indicator seems to point towards just bad things. Yet somehow, it's strange, everything is just staying the same.
• 2:00
  And when does it change? Like, what is there to expect? How can we go through this process of having now a war in The Middle East and coming off of the war in Ukraine and and the the BRICS and de authorization and yet everything is just being held steady. But as we enter into an election year, it could will most likely not be steady anymore. And so joining us today is my good friend, doctor Kirk Elliott.
• 2:25
  We'll be talking about this and just what it means, but also, like, what does all this stuff happening mean to the average person, to me, to you sitting here in America? Also, you can probably tell I've got a little bit of a cold, so I'm a little more grizzly with my voice today. So today's the I should have done, like, some sort of fireside chat with the the cigar and the deep voice, but just chat with my good friend, Kirk Elliott. So folks, enjoy this interview. Take care.
• 2:50
  Kirk, it's good to have you back on as usual. How are doing?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I'm doing well. It's great to be back with you.
• 2:56
  Seth Holehouse: Good. Thank you. So what's going on? What's going on as we dive into this economic update?
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so what's going on is a continuation of the past, right? So I think it was maybe two months ago you and I were talking on this program because Fitch, the rating agency for bonds and things of that nature, actually downgraded US treasuries. And Janet Yellen was just so mad. She said, how dare you, Fitch? We're America.
• 3:30
  We've got, you know, the world's reserve currency. We can keep adding debt, and people will still want ours so we can pay off our debt. Well, Fitch said, nah. Not not so fast. Yeah.
• 3:40
  And it's like, we're we're keeping this downgrade. And if you're a rating agency, why would you downgrade anybody? Well, because their propensity to have that debt paid off isn't there, right? So companies can issue corporate debt or anything, and they could have massive amounts of debt and still get a really good credit rating if they're generating the revenue to actually pay that off, right? So it's a function of how much debt do you have and what's the propensity to have it paid off.
• 4:12
  So Fitch has looked at America and they said, wait a second, you've got $31,000,000,000,000 worth of debt. You've got declining wages, which means declining tax revenues. There's decreasing demand for US treasuries around the globe. China's dumping like $100,000,000,000 worth of something insane in thirty days, and Russia got rid of all of its US treasuries. There's very little aggregate global demand.
• 4:43
  So I said, all right, all this debt that you have, it's becoming almost impossible to pay it back in a rising interest rate environment. So therefore, we're going to downgrade you. I mean, really, the downgrade just is simply a propensity to get your stuff paid back with higher interest rates given the amount of debt that you have. So Janet Yellen was just so mad. And but now on Friday, Moody's gave a negative outlook for US Treasuries.
• 5:12
  It's the same thing same thing that that Fitch did. It's like they're downgrading US Treasuries. Why? Because the propensity to pay off our debt is not there with the rising interest rates and all the debt that we have and the declining wages and declining tax revenue. So this is bad for America that this were to happen.
• 5:34
  But here's where, Seth, I think this has spider web effect all over the globe, right? So when you look at what that means, it means that the pause that the Fed put on interest rate hikes probably isn't going to be a pause for long, because it's just like a credit score. These credit or these bond rating agencies like Fitch's and Moody's, it's basically the equivalent of a credit score to The US Government. In a sense, if you're going to buy a house as an individual and your credit score stinks, what does that mean? You're going to get a higher interest rate on your mortgage, right?
• 6:14
  Because if you have a six twenty credit score, you don't get the best of the best interest rates. You only get that if it's 800 plus. So now that we've been downgraded, we're going to have to have a higher yield or raise interest rates to attract foreign capital to come in. There has to be a commencement reward for the risk that countries take for investing in U. S.
• 6:39
  Treasuries. Right? And Just like in a corporate world, a junk bond is much different than the US Treasury. US Treasuries have always been the bellwether, blue chip, lowest risk, best way to get your keep your money safe over a long period of time. Well, not necessarily the case now that it's being downgraded.
• 7:01
  What's the opposite of that, though? Like a junk bond. Michael Milken style junk bond. It's like, hey, Jane Doe on the other line here. It's like, I've got a deal for you today.
• 7:12
  We've got this company. They're probably going to go out of business in six months, but they're paying 15% interest rate on this junk bond. Take advantage of it while it's here, right? Well, that's what happens when you have a company that's really bad, not a propensity to pay it back. You're going to have to have a higher yield to reward the investor for the risk that they're taking.
• 7:33
  This is exactly what Moody's and Fitch is doing when they downgrade US treasuries. They're saying there's the ability to pay it off is not there. Therefore, downgrade. Therefore, you're probably going to have to raise rates to attract more foreign capital moving forward. That's the problem.
• 7:52
  Seth Holehouse: And so what does this mean to the average person in America that maybe has a little bit of money in the stock market? They've got, you know, they're some, you know, a little bit of four zero one ks, etcetera. Like, you know, what's this mean just to the typical typical Joe here in America? How does that affect our lives?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So broad brush view, rising interest rates will lower the value of the underlying bond. So there's an inverse relationship there. As interest rates rise, the value of bonds comes down. As interest rates come down, the value of bonds goes up. So literally from 1983 until like eleven months ago, interest rates were coming down, which meant the bond values are going up, up, up, phenomenal investment, right?
• 8:40
  Because that's what happens in a lowering interest rate environment. Opposite is true when interest rates rise, the value bonds comes down. It's terrible. It's a terrible option, right? But what else is a terrible option?
• 8:54
  What's the stock market? The stock market is a function of revenue. People spend money at companies. They go to Bed Bath and Beyond, Best Buy, HomeGoods, Walmart, wherever. They're spending money that increases revenues, earnings and profits, and therefore share prices go up.
• 9:11
  Well, what happens when people don't spend money? Well, then profits, earnings, revenues come down. And so when you have rising taxes, rising interest rates to slow down inflation, which happens by printing money, people aren't going to spend. They don't have it. They're tapped out.
• 9:29
  So the way that I see it moving forward with rising interest rates that that impacts the bond market directly in a negative way, it impacts real estate directly in a negative way, because nobody pays cash for houses. I shouldn't say no, but that's an exaggeration. But 95% of the people in America finance their houses because they're too expensive. So rising interest rates are going to mean they can afford less, which means people are going to have to lower the prices on their houses to actually sell them in a competitive market. So put that into perspective.
• 10:08
  Here in Denver, I talk to realtors all the time. Four months ago, this wasn't very long ago, if you were to sell, put on the market a downtown loft in Downtown Denver. You know, it's kind of what all the tech people and everybody wants a cool loft in Downtown Denver. They would sell on average for asking price or more higher than asking price in 0.3 of a month. That's all the inventory they had.
• 10:38
  So 0.3 of a month, it's like a week and a half, right? That things weren't on the market for very long. Well, just this morning I was talking to a realtor and she said, Hey, Kirk, average inventory in Downtown Denver, same exact place, five point seven months. So in four months, it went from 0.3 of a month to now a house is on the market for an average six months before it's sold. And it's not for the asking price or something higher, they're having to lower their prices.
• 11:11
  So lowering the prices six months to sell rather than 0.3 of a month at even higher than ask price. That's a world of difference in these markets, Seth. So that's what higher rates will impact that. But a higher rate also that impacts stock market negatively, bond market negatively, actually are beneficial for things like gold and silver that act as an inflationary hedge because as inflation persists, the value of those goes up. As a flight for safety, as the foundations around us are eroding and crippling and people don't know what to do, they say, man, I can't invest in real estate.
• 11:54
  I can't flip this house anymore. Bonds stink. They just keep coming down in value with these rising interest rates and stocks are lackluster at best. I mean, boring, right? For the year, maybe up like 1.7% ish.
• 12:11
  That's terrible return. When inflation is hovering unofficially at 15% plus, that's a guaranteed loss. And people think it's gone up. It's like, no, if you're not outpacing inflation, that anything that's the difference is your loss. So if you're only getting 1.7% and inflation's at 15, you're losing 13.3% due to inflationary pressures, right?
• 12:37
  So that's a terrible return on the stock market.
• 12:40
  Seth Holehouse: Here's a question I have, though, is just that Mhmm. Because, you know, I I see that and and I've, you know, I've I've talked about that and and, you know, said, look, it's kind of equivalent to say you've got, you know, a hundred thousand dollars sitting in the bank and and inflation is at 15% a year. Every year, it's like you're losing $15, but just it's 15,000 in purchasing power. Right? But if we look at the stock market, for instance, when which you you made a point earlier in saying that the stock market is really this this reflection of consumer confidence, consumer spending, etcetera, that right now, if if if you look at because, know, you and I have looked at a lot of different charts, and we're seeing that the savings of the average American is dropping significantly.
• 13:22
  You know, credit card debt is skyrocketing. You know, there's all these different indicators that say, like, we're well into a recession, yet the stock market, as I'll pull that back up again, the stock market has almost just stayed the same, like, you know, with a 1.7% difference in the last year. Now, you know, we talk about Michael Burry, right, who put a massive short in essence on the stock market. A lot of the other experts I'm following are friends of mine that are, you know, kind of watching what's happening. You know, they're they're talking about that there's gonna be a crash, there's gonna be a significant drop, etcetera, but it just seems that just odd.
• 14:02
  Right? It just seems that it just is staying static. And I understand your point in saying that it's not growing, you know, at the same pace as inflation, so it still represents a negative. But what do you think is keeping it steady? Because, you know, we look at cardboard box indicators.
• 14:23
  We look at the different aspects, the different reports coming out about consumer spending, and we can talk about what, you know, October consumer spending is down, everything. Yet somehow, it just seems like gold is being kept at 2,000, it was not being allowed to really go above 2,000, and the stock market is just static. And it just doesn't it doesn't make sense to me. As crazy as the world is, you know, we've now got a war break in The Middle East and all this. Just crazy that these indicators like gold, you know, stock market.
• 14:55
  Now gold's up, say, 1010% over the year, which is which is great. But fundamentally, though, it just seems like there's a there's, like, this invisible hand that that is keeping all this together that doesn't make sense.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Well, when it doesn't make sense, you know that something's up. Because markets are very logical, right? And when there's perfect information, hopefully in a free market, people will invest based on the perception of their increase over time, right? So when something doesn't make sense, you know that something's up. So in the case of the stock market, I'd say it's stimulus money, which is why this Friday's debt ceiling vote is a very important one.
• 15:39
  What are they going to do? Are they going to let the government shut down? Speaker Johnson says, Well, no, we're not letting the government shut down. It's like, this one's peculiar to me because he's a hard line fiscal conservative. He's a follower of Jesus, very, very much faith based individual pro life.
• 15:57
  I mean, everything that a social conservative of want, you've gotten that guy. But yet then why would he say we're not letting the government shut down? It's like, what? This doesn't add up, Something's up, right? Because not really would follow what he believes, right?
• 16:14
  So something is up. I think it's not going to be super duper easy though, to just raise the debt ceiling with a blank check like they have before. But there's going to be concessions. So maybe the concession this upcoming Friday is, well, we're taking money away from misallocated, poorly allocated funds and putting it into something that's going to grow. We're still not going to raise the debt ceiling, but we're not going to let the government shut down.
• 16:40
  We're just going to shut down bad programs. I don't know. I don't know. But really, the money that's been printed out of thin air has by and large gone to the stock market over the last couple of years, ever since COVID, right, to keep it afloat. Now, other people have said, hey, Kirk, you talked about oil, that it was gonna go up because of the Israeli Hamas conflict, and it hasn't yet.
• 17:05
  It's actually down. Why? What gives?
• 17:08
  Seth Holehouse: Hey, folks. I have a quick message for you. Thank you so much for watching, listening to this interview. I have one small request. If you're enjoying what you're listening to, could you please share this interview with one person?
• 17:21
  Just one person. Because of censorship and shadow banning, it's so hard to get this content out to more people. And the only way we can really do it is when you help by sharing it. So if you like what you're listening to, hit pause, share it with one person. It helps so much.
• 17:35
  Thank you so much.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay. Again, doesn't make sense. So there's got to be a reason for it. Right? So when you have Iran cutting supply at OPEC, when you've got any kind of conflict in The Middle East causes oil to go up because there could be disruption in the supply chain and everything else.
• 17:57
  So expectations are oil is going to go from $93 to $140 1 hundred and 50 dollars a barrel. That's over a 50% increase. Well, why is it down? It's down since the Israeli Hamas conflict started. Here's the thing.
• 18:10
  Bunch of big investors, hedge funds, you know, banks, whatever, they were expecting the logical to happen. Oil is gonna go through the roof. They put long contracts on it. Long meaning they thought the price is gonna go up. It didn't.
• 18:25
  So what are they doing? They're cutting their losses, and they're getting rid, liquidating those long positions, those paper contracts that have time decay because they end, you know, they could expire worthless. They're dumping them. Well, that dumping them puts downward pressure on the market. It's not without the futures contracts, you know, going belly up and kind of basically these big hedge funds and whatever, extinguishing their long contracts prematurely so they don't expire worthless.
• 18:55
  Well, that drives the price down. It's not because there's all this excess supply. No. Iran is pressuring OPEC to cut supply. It's not because there's peace in The Middle East far from it.
• 19:08
  Right? So this is why you've got paper manipulation of the prices. I would say the same thing is true with silver. Long positions being cut short, just selling off because people were temporarily, and I say very temporarily, probably on the wrong side of the move. But they don't want it to expire worthless, so they're just cutting their losses.
• 19:28
  But in time, fundamentals always trump everything. Fundamentals being how many people are buying it? What's the demand? What's the supply? What are the logistical considerations, taxation, everything else that are causing markets to move?
• 19:45
  Those will always come true. They always do. You can have temporary price blips, right? But over time, those fundamentals that drive markets will always be the trump card basically that actually show you the way. And what's showing us the way right now in silver and oil, well, we'll start with oil.
• 20:07
  War in The Middle East, prices are going to go up. Supply chains might be disrupted. It's ugly. So it'll go up. Don't care if it's down right now.
• 20:17
  It might be a good buying opportunity. Who knows? Right? But markets can stay irrational longer than we can stay rational. It's been proven time and time again, right?
• 20:27
  So silver supply chain disruptions, Even even right now in a sluggish global economy, 60% of all global mining production in silver is used for manufacturing. Imagine what it would be if it were a robust economy. That leaves very little left for investors When you have supply chain disruptions, low supply, high demand, inventory constraints, COMEX running out, that should cause the prices to go up, and it will. So I think there's some manipulation happening right now with basically some short selling and things of that. But never let that bother you.
• 21:04
  Never let that deter you from the truth, which is supply chain, low inventory, high demand, political chaos, geopolitical conflict, unsustainable debt inflationary pressures. All of those cause gold and silver to go up, and we have all of them. So temporarily might be different than what you think. Medium and long term, I would load up on gold and silver, especially silver because the fundamentals are so strong. I mean, really incredibly strong.
• 21:34
  We get to buy it at a temporary low price right now.
• 21:37
  Seth Holehouse: It's it's kinda like food as an example. Because I remember back when the the war in Ukraine started, and we had this massive drop in exports of grains coming out of Ukraine. They missed their planting season because of the war. But you also had a lot of the natural gas not coming out of Russia anymore, which was the, you know, kind of the the foundation of the chemical fertilizers, right, that were needed for the food supply. And so while, you know, I was interviewing people like Michael Yon or Mike Adams, and, you know, we're talking about, you know, for instance, hey, there's gonna be food shortages or there could potentially be famine, and and it was a frightening, you know, kind of prospect.
• 22:17
  Now in America, we never got to that famine place. We never got to place where you could say there's real food shortages. Maybe, you know, your favorite cereal's not in there because of supply chain. Right? So it seems like, and this is this is what's kinda weird about it, is that it seems like so much happens in our day to day lives.
• 22:36
  And it might be changing, but it's not some big sudden change, and so a lot of people don't actually process it and realize it. But if you take a step back and look at, you know, grocery prices for instance, you know, so around that time, you know, as I've mentioned before, we we rushed out and we bought a lot of, you know, long term storeable food. You know, not like the food buckets, but we bought, you know, bags of rice, and bags of beans, and cans of beans, and all these things. And let's just say, hypothetically, we spent $5,000 on food over the course of those many months. And now though, you look you look at that, and that food's now gone up between a 200%, a lot of it.
• 23:14
  Yeah. I mean, it's it's insane how expensive it's gotten. And so it's like regardless of whether people feel it or perceive it or not, that you're right though. All the factors were there to influence that that price. I think that they, the elites, didn't have as much, they don't have as much control over food prices.
• 23:35
  I think actually they want food prices to be higher because it's part of the, you know, the way that they are waging war on mankind, but it just seems like, you know, you're right though, that there's these factors that you can't ignore. And that's why when I look at this chart of the stock market and I see, oh, okay. Great. You know, it's it's it's safe. Right?
• 23:54
  It's, you know, it hasn't gone up a lot, but hasn't gone down a lot. Maybe it's a it's a safe kind of place to to to have some fun sitting. To me, when I look at that, I just think like, yeah, it's safe until it's not. And that's why Right. You know, personally, don't have any money in the stock market because I see all these factors.
• 24:12
  I'm just thinking, you know, yeah, it's at 35,000 until it drops 3,000 points over the course of a week. And then the next week, it drops 3,000. The next week, you know, and until and so it just that's just where I'm at.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Well, expand that chart. Do do they have a three year or five year?
• 24:30
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Because this will show how overbought it really is.
• 24:33
  Seth Holehouse: There's a five year. Let's do five year.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Look at the five year.
• 24:37
  Seth Holehouse: See Well, there you go.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's at a high point. It's gotta come down.
• 24:44
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. And then you look at the the max Yeah. Which is going back to 83.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Everything has to take a breather. And when you look at it, okay, now is the time to take a breather. And things cycle throughout time, right? 2,009 was brutal. Usually once a decade, the stock market has a big, big correction.
• 25:09
  Well, we saw that one in 02/2009 through 'eleven, pretty stout. Prior to that, there was one in February, the tech stock bubble. So we're due. We're simply just due. I don't want to overstate, understate anything.
• 25:23
  It's like, yeah, we're due for a correction in the stock market. And it looks like we're going to get one, right? And there's reason for it. That's like, okay, we've got rising interest rates, rising taxes, lowering wages and rising prices and war and conflict and export controls. And it's like, yeah, of course, we're going to get a correction.
• 25:47
  We just simply well, we just don't know when and to what magnitude, what extent it's going to be. If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I would say it's gonna be worse than the last one because there's way too much debt. There's way too much chasing these markets. There's way more turbulence than there was back then. The world is just different.
• 26:09
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. It really is. And so I want to touch this on one last thing before we conclude here, which is just the consumer spending. I want you to help make sense of this. So, you know, obviously, you think that October heading into November, heading into Black Friday, heading into the holiday season, that there would be updates.
• 26:27
  But so tell us help us make sense of this. This is a CNBC article. Consumer spending fell October according to the retail monitor tracking card transactions. So what's this mean?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So, Seth, here's the thing. We knew that it would because we talked about this about three or four weeks ago. Janet Yellen was actually praising Americans for being resilient and spending money in this harsh economy and helping America come out of it. It's like, what? She's actually encouraging people, giving them a pat on the back for spending money that they don't have.
• 27:05
  What's wrong with our society? It's sick. Right? So but, yeah, that's what she is bragging about. Well, when you look into it, was she lying?
• 27:13
  No. People were spending money, but they were spending it on credit cards. That's not real. That's not like you and I having money in our bank account, our savings account or checking account, and we're spending it stuff that we've earned. It's like, great, That's fine.
• 27:29
  There's no debt associated with that. But when you put money on credit cards, to me, that's not real. It's borrowed. It's other people's money. And at some point, that gravy train is going to run out, which is what's happened.
• 27:43
  See, so to the buildup to October, credit card spending, credit card spending, and it was wild and amazing, people said, Oh, Americans are resilient, they're spending a bunch of money. But then they've reached their credit limit. And this is what we warned people about is when that happens, it's going to be a harsh reality. There's going to be no spending because people don't have it. They can't spend what they don't have.
• 28:05
  If there's no credit limit or they don't have it in the bank, they're simply not going to spend. Well, that's what's happening. People have maxed out their credit cards. There is no credit line left. So therefore spending is going to come down.
• 28:19
  And that's what we saw in October. That was the pendulum shifting moment where basically people have maxed out their credit cards. There's not enough equity left in it. There are not enough credit line. So therefore, they curtail their spending.
• 28:34
  They just stop. And I think we're gonna see this. It's like, oh, but Kirk, it's coming up on holiday season. Yeah. Holiday season, like we talked about two weeks ago, with cardboard box sales being down 80%, they're not even expecting holiday season to be good for retailers.
• 28:50
  So we're entering into a time when, man, kinda kinda hate this time of year, not Christmas, but what follows it in an election year because you're going to see all these horrible commercials nonstop, and politicians are going to be lying and people will vote for the one who lies the best saying, hey, you know, we understand the economy's sour. Let's let vote for me, and I'll get you something. And people are going to vote for the people who offer them the most goods out of their welfare, entitlement, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. This is how politics works. In election year, people will generally vote for the one who promises them the best outlook for the future.
• 29:35
  Right now, where America sits and people can't get jobs under Biden's economic plan for America, they're gonna say, well, you know, in the past, during, like, during the Carter years, people said, I want Reagan. He's going to actually turn this thing around. We need Reagan. Right? Right now, what we're seeing, you know, is this battle, this amazing battle between truth and lies.
• 30:01
  Is Trump going to be allowed to run? Is he going to be on the ballot in every state? We don't know. I mean, here in Colorado, California two point zero, they're actually wanting to pass legislation to take Trump off the ballot completely. It's like, what?
• 30:18
  Jeez. It's terrible. Right? So so but that's the battle. And so let's just say Trump doesn't run.
• 30:26
  Well, then what have you got? You've got all these politicians that are gonna say, vote for me. I'll give you whatever you want. Just give me a vote. And then you've got Trump, which is very Reagan esque saying, I'm actually gonna truly fix the economy.
• 30:39
  I'm not gonna fix it with a Band Aid and give a bunch of handouts. I'm actually gonna bring jobs back to America. I'm gonna grow the economy. I'm gonna make it more robust, make it more profitable, hire more people. So now there's more people spending.
• 30:51
  See, that's what America needs. But outside of him running, I think we're gonna probably get the other option where people will vote for whoever promises them the most stuff. Right? So I think that's the ugly political season we're entering into.
• 31:08
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah, unfortunately, I mean, it's kind of because we talk about this invisible hand, keeping things together. I don't think that invisible hand will be able to sustain the tension needed to keep things in line in 2024. I think it's just going to be, you know, pardon my my French, but a shitshow. I think it's really just gonna turn into a mess. So
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree. I absolutely agree.
• 31:33
  Seth Holehouse: So Kirk, if folks do wanna move some of their assets into precious metals, gold, silver, etcetera, you're obviously someone that I trust greatly. We've got a website link goldwithseth.com. They can go to phone number. Is it what? (720) 605-3900.
• 31:50
  Right? That's the best way. And those will be in the the description below as well. So it just yeah. Well, thanks for the the update.
• 31:58
  I think that, you know, again, looking back and you've got that stock market kind of sitting even, I feel like it's it's it's in its holding pattern. So I think that these economic updates as we kind of move into the new year and especially entering into, you know, the the season of the election cycle, I I have a feeling it's gonna get far more just crazy.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I think it is. And this is a sad reality for America. Know, big picture, not everybody, right? But across the board, politicians view people as votes, not as people. Yeah.
• 32:32
  And therefore, they're gonna do whatever they can do to get a vote. That's ugly. That's ugly. And that's the opposite of what we believe is a firm here, and that's profit over people rather than people over profit. You know?
• 32:44
  Kick the can down the road, promise them everything, use other people's money, let the next congressman or woman try to figure it out. Right? It's power for now. But it's ugly. And at some point, that game ends.
• 32:58
  I think that game ends pretty soon because truly, we've kind of run out of money. There is no more credit line on our national credit card. You know? It's it's it's ugly. We're losing reserve currency status.
• 33:13
  We will have to pay the piper.
• 33:14
  Seth Holehouse: Exactly.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I don't like to say those things. I don't want them. But I think it's reality.
• 33:21
  Seth Holehouse: Unfortunately, it is. Well, Kirk, thank you for coming on. It's always nice. Since somehow we smile limits these conversations, which is great, but
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: It's because there's a solution. Right? I mean, if there weren't a solution, I wouldn't be smiling, I'll tell you that.
• 33:33
  Seth Holehouse: I agree. Well, thanks, man. Have a great rest of your week. Take care and God bless.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you. God bless.