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WHY YOU'RE NOT GETTING FILM DISTRIBUTION · The Media Odyssey

• Host: [00:00:00] Good afternoon everybody. I'd like to welcome you to our very first podcast, Media Odyssey Podcast here at MIPCOM. This is our first time doing it and we're excited that you'll be able to join us today with our amazing hosts as well as this great discussion. I'd like to thank our partners for this first time here doing it, Filmhub. Thank you very much for your support at this market and for our very first podcast. I'd like to introduce our two hosts today Evan Shapiro, as well as Marion Ranchet. Evan Shapiro: So this is our first podcast ever at MIPCOM. But a year ago at MIPCOM, we came up with a plan to make this podcast. That was the first time we discussed it. Marion Ranchet: Yeah. Evan Shapiro: On a rooftop full of rosé. Marion Ranchet: Yeah. Evan Shapiro: Well the rooftop wasn't full of rosé. We were [00:01:00] full of rosé. Marion Ranchet: We were full of rosé. Yeah. Evan Shapiro: And now here we are making a podcast and it's a little bit of a statement for the creator economy. We came up with the concept a year ago. We hatched the plan, we launched the podcast, and now we're shooting a live one here at MIPCOM. Marion Ranchet: Yeah. And I have to say kudos to the team 'cause they we did that part with them at MIPLondon and it takes a lot of, you know, courage right? To launch new formats like that. And so we're happy to be back and with the big, big event that MIPCOM is. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. And what's cool is this year's MIPCOM is themed the creator economy. And it feels, I don't know how you feel about this, but walking down the Croisette at the parties in the Palais, at the booze, it does feel like the intersection of the creator economy and mainstream media. What do you think? Marion Ranchet: A hundred percent. I think there's a bit of that excitement that I haven't felt in a long time, and not talking about here necessarily, but we're always looking for something new to do. We need to push the boundaries of our businesses and yeah, I think I would wanna see more creators. Not that I wanna see Mr. Beast or [00:02:00] anything, but I would wanna see even more creators. What I've loved is that we've seen the creator. Evan Shapiro: You mean at MIPCOM? Marion Ranchet: Yeah. I mean creators themselves. What we've seen is the creator ecosystem and which is great as well because no one does this alone. And so we've seen agencies and we've seen technology companies, all of that ecosystem that surrounds the creator economy. And I think these guys are crucial in that education, right? Work that we all need to do to bridge that gap between mainstream and, I'm gonna say mainstream. I've heard everyone say old media, legacy media, Evan Shapiro: mainstream. Marion Ranchet: Fuck that. Yeah. Sorry, I've said it already. Evan Shapiro: Wow. On the podcast, we gonna get censored by the FCC. This is the first year that MIPCOM has had a major presence. I'm sorry, This is the first year that at YouTube has had a major presence at MIPCOM, which I think is a big signifier. The danger of that, so YouTube has this major presence here. They have signage. They really embraced the event in a big way, and they came here to talk to, reach out to broadcasters and [00:03:00] commercial publishers to work more closely together on the platform. I think the danger is that a lot of people came here thinking that YouTube was buying content. They are not. There is a new buyer here, it is the audience. And that is a big part of what this conference has been about is learning how to sell, how to move your, more of your business from B2B into more B2C, and I think film in particular, but TV distribution really needs to make that move. And we're seeing that a lot here in our two guests for this podcast are I think great case studies in that. So I wanna welcome to with no further ado if it's okay with you. Marion Ranchet: Yeah, go ahead. Evan Shapiro: I'd like to welcome our two guests: the CEO of Filmhub, Alan d'Escragnolle. And the CEO of Vortex Pictures, Justin Rebelo. Film hub is one of these, I think, really new bleeding edge film and television distribution [00:04:00] platforms that I think is not, I think I know is here changing the business but also helping educate various library owners to the changing ways of embracing new platforms to distribute your library content. And Vortex is a boutique film and television studio in Canada, yeah? Justin Rebelo: Correct. Evan Shapiro: And the two of you work together? Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah. Evan Shapiro: All right. We're done. Thank you very much. Justin Rebelo: Gladly. That's it. Evan Shapiro: Justin, you'vem what number MIP is this for you? Justin Rebelo: I'm sorry? Evan Shapiro: What number of MIPCOM is this for you? Justin Rebelo: Oh, boy. Geez, this is 10 or 11 at least. Evan Shapiro: And what are you doing here? What are you looking for out of this MIPCOM? Justin Rebelo: As you said, Vortex is a boutique studio in Canada. We're a theatrical distribution company. We put up 40 to 50 movies a year. Our core business is our production business, so we're looking for new production partners, corporate co-production partners. Oh. Oh, sorry. Okay. Hello. Check, check, check. Should I start again? Evan Shapiro: No, go for it. Okay. So you're, you you're a film distribution and television distribution. How many films a month, [00:05:00] a year? Justin Rebelo: Yeah. We release in Canada about 40, 50 films a year. Evan Shapiro: Wow. Justin Rebelo: And we have hundreds of films on different platforms. And we're primarily a production company. We make six to eight movies a year. So we're here looking for co-production partners, new opportunities with our traditional broadcasters, and expanding our partnership with Filmhub. Evan Shapiro: And Alan, tell us what Filmhub does in short. Alan d'Escragnolle: In short. So we do a couple different things. So one, we have a standard, kind of new releasing business as any traditional distribution company does, but also we also do a sub distribution business on behalf of many catalog owners, studios, sales agents, distributors and help them further their reach into the ever expanding world of revenue share ,even smaller fixed fee deal licenses as well. And realizing that, the world is becoming more bifurcated by the day and how you make your money. And guess what? If you are negotiating a one-off deal for a $2,000 license, you can't spend the time papering that work. You need a lot of technology and speed, and [00:06:00] you need to completely rethink your operation to how you do that. That's what we built Filmhub to do, to do volume and licensing of scale. And to do that we had to build an encoding house in house. We had to build a royalty collection team and technology platform to really bring that cost down so that we could service both our catalog as well as the catalog of our distribution partners. Evan Shapiro: And how many films a month do you release? I'm sorry, Marion. Alan d'Escragnolle: We release about 500 to a thousand films per month. Some of it acquired directly ourselves and then a lot also acquired from our sales agent and distribution partners. Marion Ranchet: And you are taking that to who? Because one might argue that Vortex has been around the corner for a long time. You know how to take your movies to broadcasters and others. So what's that thing that you do that perhaps companies like Vortex can do on their own? Alan d'Escragnolle: So I think, and I'll touch a couple things, right? Justin's in Canada. He has great deep relationships across many Canadian broadcasters. He's handling his pay one deals. He's doing his deals where he is okay, a hundred thousand dollars deal. Justin's [00:07:00] gonna go sit and do that, and he's gonna go focus on that and he's gonna do a lot of those. And I hope he does a lot of them because guess what? Justin Rebelo: I hope so too. Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah, because guess what? That means when he gets to his second window, he's got great content that needs to get out in the world and can make a lot of money, sometimes more than the first a hundred thousand dollars deal. Justin Rebelo: Absolutely. Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah. But I'll then turn it over to Justin. Justin Rebelo: Yeah. I mean that, in Canada we also have been bullish in this market, right? So we have our own direct relationships with everybody, but as a production company, we make six to eight movies a year. And I am always looking for that first traditional broadcast fee, as you said, looking for that money upfront. But as those come back to me, I'm looking to get them out as agnostically on as many platforms as possible. So working with Alan in the United States and rest of world really opened up the possibility for us to make sure we were covered across all the platforms. And his unique relationship with YouTube free to ads was a really core pillar as to why I was able to get into business with him. Marion Ranchet: Ooh, YouTube Free To, you need to tell us what that is. I don't think many people know that category actually [00:08:00] exists on YouTube. Evan Shapiro: So really quickly, so you'll take the Vortex library or titles in it and distribute it across AVOD, TVOD, globally. You're a provider to Tubi, you're a provider to Amazon, but one of the places that's been really growing, that you've noticed as an outlet and a revenue driver for library holders and IP owners is YouTube Free To with ads. Tell us what that is. 'cause it sounds obvious, but it's a section of YouTube that is being underutilized by professional providers. Alan d'Escragnolle: A hundred percent. So everyone here, if I ask this room right now, everyone say oh yeah, I have content on YouTube. Well, you have content on a section of YouTube that is self upload, that you have to go build your own channel, that you have to go deal with rights, take down issues, and cutting and creating thumbnails and trying to do all this, and that takes you months, years, maybe you got 50,000 subscribers. You're like, oh, cool. I get a title that makes a thousand bucks here, 2000 bucks there. It's a nice little thing. Well, that is really hard to scale. There [00:09:00] are massive companies being built that are human driven that have to go create each one of these thumbnails, et cetera. That takes way too much time, honestly. And so YouTube said, Hey, to open up the world for this entire Palais, they said, Hey, we actually know that there's so much premium free or film and TV content that needs to get on YouTube. And that methodology doesn't fully work for everyone. They may not have enough film and TV content to build that channel. They also may not want to build that, and so they open up this new section called Free with Ads that actually is premium free content. It is available not in every territory yet. It is in the US, Canada, Australia just launched, Japan just launched, Germany, and is gonna be launching in more territories and that is only available to select distribution partners. And so they picked a few distribution partners of which Filmhub is one of them. Given the size of our catalog and library, Evan Shapiro: It's convenient for this conversation that you're one of them. Alan d'Escragnolle: Yes. We are one of them. And it is a new and there's CPMs are higher [00:10:00] because it's more premium content and that really helps drive a significant amount of revenue. Also, guess what? It's more permanently, prominently seen on the TV. So if you're watching on the TV app, on YouTube. It's film and TV content. It's separated from creator content. And really the goal is guess what? You bring creators, you bring that together, and then all of a sudden you have creator content alongside premium film and TV content, and you've got a great marketing engine to drive things to more film and TV content. Justin Rebelo: I mean, we have a YouTube channel. Vortex Media has its own channel, but there are there, there are barriers. Things like, with traditional media music cue sheets on films from 10 years ago that suddenly it's gotta wait 30 extra days to get live on the platform and might be then subject to a take down. So there are other barriers and you really, if you're doing a YouTube channel, it has to have a clear voice and a global reach. So this is where Free with Ads becomes a much better advantage to long form traditional content. 'cause YouTube is TV. Evan Shapiro: Are you seeing decent revenues from this channel? And do [00:11:00] they differentiate from the, do you differentiate them from your normal revenues off of your normal channel? Justin Rebelo: They're complimentary, right? And, for us, because we don't have a clear ch like our channel is a bunch, is films, tv, movies, all different genres, right? So it's harder for us to scale that. It's much easier to do a romance channel and have that go global. So for us, Free with Ads actually becomes much more complimentary to the catalog that we have because again, it's tv it's an algorithm that's bringing up content that you like and serves it up to you when you want it. Marion Ranchet: From a customer perspective, what are we talking about? Is it some sort of a corner? Essentially, 'cause I love YouTube, but there's so much content and I think the pitch they've been doing these last few days is, come on, we can help you. We can, but there's, it's an ocean of content, right? Yeah. So this section in particular, we're talking, an AVOD on demand portion of that service, right? Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah. And I think this is the hardest thing about people don't realize that you actually have to become a student of [00:12:00] YouTube to actually learn how YouTube works. And if you wanna talk later, I'm happy to talk your ear off about it. Evan Shapiro: But do you maximize the exposure for the films that you have on that, on that part of the platform. And have you had to learn a special set of skills like Liam Neeson to get your film seen on that area of the platform? Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah, it makes a difference because one of the things like for instance, the thumbnails that perform on Free with Ads are very different than the thumbnails that will perform on the standard upload section on YouTube as an example. That's one thing to think about. The biggest thing is like Marion talked about, discovery, right? People are like, well, where do I find this? Guess what? Like things are designed in the technology world to help click. You just don't even realize where you're going. You're just clicking through all of a sudden. And so one of the things you see is if you pull up your phone, you'll see free with ads as like a moniker below that, designating that that is, premium film and TV content. And that will pull you into that section. Or as I mentioned before, like you can also just click in and search for free movies [00:13:00] and TV. Marion Ranchet: So there's one thing is, and you've talked about it at the top, is that change in the business model. This market very much, embodies how initially we were trading content against flat fees, MGs. We're very much in a different world now. Can you guys speak to that? How can you make it work? I think that's the big question. Everyone wants to be everywhere, but how? How do you make that equation work for your content? Justin Rebelo: This is very interesting to our relationship with Filmhub. We took a movie we produced as an original movie for a network called Super Channel in Canada. We partnered with Filmhub in the US. It's a movie called Pins and Needles. It's a horror movie. And I actually I Evan Shapiro: Pins and needles? Justin Rebelo: Pins and needles. It starts Chelsea Clark from Ginny and Georgia. And I turned down some traditional MG offers to work with Filmhub in a new release because I wanted to get it out as widely as possible and leverage the power of their platform to make it available as ubiquitously as possible. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. [00:14:00] And so I think there's two parts to this question that I'm gonna ask here, but the first is, I'll start with a statement. Pedro Pena was on stage at the opening session with me talking about how much he wanted to outreach and work with partners. Traditional mainstream creators and distributors and publishers of professional high-end content, and that they're better together. That's their whole campaign there. But it's not easy to work with YouTube. It is hard to, not that they're make it difficult, it's just huge. And it's not necessarily built for a company the size of Vortex. And so it is like a Nintendo game where you have to understand where the magic invisible squares are to bon your head to get the coin right. But there are companies like Film Hub who that's all they do is bonk the head on those boxes for those coins. It's a bit of brute force though. You have, talk about the machinery that you've built there with regards to distributing and it's not just on YouTube. It's YouTube and AVOD and TVOD and all around the world as well. Alan d'Escragnolle: It's interesting. [00:15:00] The way that I like to think about it is you have to think of each of these major platforms, Amazon, Tubi, YouTube, et cetera. Each one of them is like going into a brand new world market. And you gotta you, even in these buyers, sometimes you have to be selling territory by territory within YouTube to things. Like that's actually true. There's buyers in different territories that, like they're launching different locations. You can't go have that conversation on a day-to-day basis. It's really difficult. And especially if you've got 5, 10, 20, a thousand films even, right? And so that's where you do need partners to actually make that work. And that's an important thing to really understand. Like these services are so massive now. That you're talking about a service with billions of users. So guess what? That's a pretty good chunk of the world. And so you have to completely rethink how you work with these services and how you distribute on them. Evan Shapiro: There used to be a time when you build a business plan around a piece of IP, a movie, and you make a lot of movies. Justin Rebelo: We do. Evan Shapiro: And [00:16:00] you have a different P and L for each film, right? Justin Rebelo: Every single film. Different. Yeah. Evan Shapiro: Which is, I think pretty usual for folks who work in what you do and are here at this market. There used to be a time where home video would be on that, on the line item and there would be international and territory by territory and certain rights to certain people. Justin Rebelo: Absolutely. Evan Shapiro: Are you at a point where you're now able to write OTT and social video and YouTube into your revenue waterfall as you look at individual IP business plans? Justin Rebelo: Absolutely. Yeah. That post pay window, or again, if I'm making an original movie for a platform or a cable network, that post pay or first window I, it's a general bucket for traditional television, AVOD YouTube. Wherever it is, I want to get it out there. And whether there's sales to be done, it's in, in Canada, the traditional library model was always an exclusive model. The studios would be selling their library out for years and years and years and windowing it out with different platforms. In Canada, it's always been atacking [00:17:00] non-exclusive licenses on top of each other. So it's a version that's evolved to a different place, but just on all these different platforms. Alan d'Escragnolle: I think the smartest thing about what Justin has done and his strategy and like why, like when I met him I was like, oh, this guy gets, it was the number one thing he said to me. He is like, Alan, yeah, as soon as I've launched, as soon as I've exhausted all my pay opportunities, I wanna get things out everywhere. And that is the smartest, it sounds not that revolutionary, but there are very few people in this Palais that understand the power of doing that because once you've exhausted your opportunities on your fixed fee licenses, you have an asset that is sitting on the shelf collecting dust and you're just doing nothing with it. That asset that's sitting on a shelf could be sitting somewhere on YouTube, on Tubi, on Roku, on transactional services, just by making things findable by the audience, which is what we're here to do, to entertain people. You don't entertain people by having something sitting on a shelf. It doesn't entertain people. So guess what? Just getting it available is [00:18:00] 95% of the battle. Justin Rebelo: What's interesting is, in the, in traditional film releasing, we always have focused in the new release window, and now that film is available on all these different platforms, it actually puts the power back to the creator. If you start promoting your film again from 10 years ago, it can start to push it through the algorithm and find a whole new audience. And that's really what it's about is audience enablement and engagement. And the more you can push and the more you can use the tools you have to have the audience find your film again, or your TV movie or TV series, whatever it might be. The power is back into you and it has a long tail life. Evan Shapiro: Applause there. Justin Rebelo: Respect. Evan Shapiro: It's a, it used to be Pedro on stage yesterday, he talked about a push model versus a pull model. We are out of the push model. We are no longer in an era where channels are just pushing stuff out and making consumers watch them. We are now much more in a C confined search, word of mouth pull model from the consumer. And [00:19:00] again, there are new buyers out there. They are the consumers. It is not just as easy as throwing the shit up on the internet and hoping that someone sees it. There is a science to it and there are professionals Filmhub being a great example of this and the relationship here being a good example where they can help you understand how to do this. Or, more accurately, help you focus on just making your fucking films and you don't have to go out there. Alan d'Escragnolle: I do not want to go make films. Justin Rebelo: That would be nice. Evan Shapiro: That's not your desire. Justin Rebelo: I would love to just focus on making films. Yeah. And we need to make more films together. Evan Shapiro: That's right. We made, so we made a Hallmark movie at one point called Nineties Christmas. You can check it out. Justin Rebelo: I made Evan an accidental Hallmark producer. Evan Shapiro: We are not distributing it on Filmhub though. Justin Rebelo: What's interesting though about what you just said is each platform has a different nuance. Different genres work in different contexts, so understanding that bit of it and working with your partner, whether it's Filmhub or us directly as well, we've got our own direct relationships, particularly in Canada, so we're big in this business as well. But understanding that and being ultra focused and [00:20:00] ultra clear with the way you're talking about your film online to drive the audience to it. Marion Ranchet: Can we get, I wanna get concretes with a specific example. Evan Shapiro: Okay. Marion Ranchet: Because you, you've produced a movie. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. I produced a Hallmark movie called The Nineties Christmas with Justin and Vortex. And that was a big hit. Justin Rebelo: It was, it actually, it was, it did very well for Hallmark. Evan Shapiro: Thank you. Justin Rebelo: We went and we licensed the nineties song Kiss Me. Evan Shapiro: Right. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Justin Rebelo: Yeah. Evan Shapiro: Yeah it is. And it's a good tune. It's a hot tub time Machine meets Scrooge. Anyway, I think. Marion Ranchet: And it's coming to, can we say it for Christmas? You've sold it to Justin Rebelo: Yeah, it's playing on TF1 here this Christmas season. So it will be, Evan Shapiro: Please check it out. Justin Rebelo: in France coming out. Yeah. You really love it. Yeah, it was a Hallmark last year. Evan Shapiro: It's a lot of good nineties haircuts. But yeah, I think you're talking about the film that I produced and that we're distributing with Filmhuub. So to get to your point, I know you also do first run features. Vortex. I think there's a new market. So the independent film market, especially in the United States, has not been great. It's hard to find screens. It's hard to [00:21:00] even sell it to streamers as back catalog at this point, those size films, because all the big streamers are now shooting for ad supported, four quadrant big tent pole films, the indie film has not disappeared, but the market for it is not really working. That said, 15,000 people applied to Sundance with a film, I think what 150 got in. And so there's this problem that I wanted to help solve and I thought we could make a case study for, so we made a film called Skit. The film I think is indicative of also a different kind of professional process shift that needs to happen. We made the film for $65,000, feature film, eight days SAG. Ultra low budget, and then we partnered with Filmhub who's going to distribute it all around the world, but we're starting with an exclusive window on Tubi in their creator area, on their platform, also in their movie area. And we, the whole thing from [00:22:00] greenlight to finish to, it'll premiere on November 14th on Tubi in the US and then around the world shortly after on Filmhub. But the working with Filmhub of this was to me. Hopefully a case study demonstrating to people who wanna make independent film that you can again. It's safe to make independent film if you understand the process. If you understand the tools that are out there, the partners that can help you get seen this new distribution, but also go back to the original concepts of containing your budget to a point where you don't have to sell your house in order. We did borrow someone's house for free to make the film. The filmmaker's mom and dad lent their house. And you guys embrace it. I, you know, hopefully it's because you like the film, but I also, I think you have films of this size that make money all the time, right? Alan d'Escragnolle: Yeah. And like I will tell you, I have films that have been shot for $3 million, $10 million that probably some of them won't make as much as this one can. And that's true. And that's the difference now. And understanding that the [00:23:00] key is it's like Evan just said, I'm gonna green light it. I don't need to wait for somebody to go. I'm gonna keep that budget low. And guess what? If you're smart about it, you can really make money. And the key is that film gonna sell for a massive pay one deal to Canal Plus? No, it's okay. That's fine. The key is it's gonna get out in the world. You're gonna be, your team's already being super creative around like the marketing clips and how we're dri driving on YouTube. Still has a full press release strategy and that's great. And guess what? It's got a nice, still able to secure an exclusive window for a title. So it's got, a good partner and to be there. And guess what? That is the way that you begin having to do these films at that budget. And that's really a great model. And guess what? You have to realize, it's like at the CPM values that we're at yes, it is still gonna have to get a lot of viewership, but the tools are there to get the viewership is the key. That is the piece that's interesting. And so you really become a creator. Justin Rebelo: You know, [00:24:00] most filmmakers when they make their movie hope and dream that they're gonna get that big theatrical release. As Evan stated, that is harder and harder and harder. We had a nice success story this year. We made a tiny little film for 50 grand, mentor at the filmmakers. You know, they were the writers, directors, and stars of this movie. And we were on track to go straight to transactional when it played a film festival in San Francisco and the horror talk community started talking about this film as if it was the scariest movie of the year, and so it went viral on TikTok and suddenly we had Eli Roth reaching out to us saying, can I see this movie as a horror film? And so now we've partnered with Eli. It's an Eli Presents, Eli Roth Presents Dreameater is the name of the movie, and it's being released on a thousand screens. October 24th. So sometimes it can go the other way too, and that never you would've had to manufacture and set, put up the P and A to even consider that, to go to that many screens. And now the creator's sphere has allowed for that path to happen. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. If that film was made [00:25:00] for a million dollars, chances are either did, wouldn't get made or it wouldn't have been discovered that way, and it might not have been, become a cold hit itself. It shows you that in popular culture, very little starts or ends that doesn't start and end on creator platforms. Alan d'Escragnolle: I think the one thing that's so interesting about this, we're talking about the success stories. We live in a world, in this industry, that we have power laws that exist. You can't break the power laws. One in 10 makes 90% of the revenue. It's just how it works. It doesn't change. No one talks about it. It is the most important thing to realize, and so guess what? It's probably a lot better to make. 10 films for $50,000 sometimes, and it is to make 10 films for a million dollars, especially now with the tools and services you have to actually create real content and then guess what? Your returns are much higher because guess what? It looks like a million bucks and you're returning a good return. Justin Rebelo: But everybody got a free house and had to sleep on the couch. Evan Shapiro: We didn't, we did get the house for free and we didn't have to sleep on the couch. But I, and it doesn't all have to be low end [00:26:00] production. Look, there's a, there is a massive buzz around what vertical content people are calling wrongly, calling micro dramas. 'cause not all of it's dramas. I'm trying to sell pocket television as the terminology. But there are a number of different. Indicators that lower cost production, including AI of it all, are going to be increasingly important if you're gonna survive and thrive in this new media economy. Not only, but also. You wanna make the high end stuff. You want to make the big budget pictures and television shows, and those will continue to be made. But at far fewer numbers, you're getting far fewer green lights across the board. That's not that's also something that not everyone's talking about. And so you, if you can learn how to self fund, self-finance, self distribute, and reach those audiences yourself, you protect yourself from the downturns in the markets when they come. Alan d'Escragnolle: A hundred percent. It's just all about being creative. It's all about being creative and seeing the different opportunities across each of these services that's [00:27:00] developing and realizing The key is we have to be adapting faster than ever in the modern landscape. This market in this way has existed for 30 plus years, right? The market now, this year to last year is completely different and it's gonna start changing even faster. And if we don't adapt. Opening AI will be showing up here very quickly. It's gonna start happening and and those are the things you're gonna realize oh snap, we're behind. Evan Shapiro: But this collaboration, I think is a good example of ways that you can change your business for the better. That leads us to our question of the week. Marion Ranchet: So guys, were, you feel like there's a wind of change happening this year, I'm gonna take you to next year. What do you wanna see happening, within next year if we catch up? What's the one thing that you wanna see happening for both of you guys? Together or not? Alan d'Escragnolle: I, my biggest thing is I hope more people think like Justin and realize as soon as they're off of their fixed fee window deals, [00:28:00] they're getting their content out in as many locations as possible and letting audiences find them. That's the number one thing. If we do that, people will be making a lot more money in this Palais. Justin Rebelo: The low rumble of the creative sphere is getting to the loud rumble. And I'm just excited to have more creators. The, really at the end of the day, it's filmmaking in a different context. And, we make films because we believe in the script, we finance it, we make it, and every context in every path is different based on finding the audience. And I just think it's very exciting that there's new paths for people to create content, and I think that's just gonna continue to be, become more and more exciting. Evan Shapiro: This was fun. Marion Ranchet: That's it. Evan Shapiro: This is our first podcast at MIPCOM. Thank you so much for being here. Marion Ranchet: Thank you everyone Evan Shapiro: For those listening, we'll see you next week on the Media Odyssey Podcast. That is Marion Ranchet. I am Evan Shapiro. Thanks for [00:29:00] listening.