Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #700 Serious Sibling Rivalry

Transcript

#700 Serious Sibling Rivalry · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:00
Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast. It's Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day,
0:10
Speaker 1: my love, I thank you, You're welcome. I don't think
0:14
Speaker 1: that today's podcast episode has very much at all to
0:16
Speaker 1: do with Valentine's Day. We're going to do our best now,
0:18
Speaker 1: you know what. We're not even going to try to
0:20
Speaker 1: spin it towards Valentine's We had a Valentine's conversation last
0:23
Speaker 1: week on the podcast. That's enough. Today we're just we're
0:26
Speaker 1: dealing with the big issues. We're dealing with some real situations.
0:29
Speaker 1: For those of you who are new to the Happy
0:30
Speaker 1: Families podcast, Hello and welcome. My name is doctor Justin Colson.
0:33
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you being here. I'm here with Kylie,
0:35
Speaker 1: my wife from mum to our six children, and our
0:38
Speaker 1: conversation on a Tuesday usually revolves around answering somebody's question.
0:43
Speaker 1: You can email us your questions podcasts at Happy Families
0:46
Speaker 1: dot com dot you. Who are we and why would
0:48
Speaker 1: we be answering your questions? Well, I have a PhD
0:51
Speaker 1: in psychology and have spent the last twenty years learning
0:54
Speaker 1: about how to make families happier and sharing that with
0:56
Speaker 1: other people. I've just finished and submitted my eighth book,
1:00
Speaker 1: which will be on bookshelves in April. I think it's April,
1:03
Speaker 1: maybe May sometime around then, all about the parenting revolution,
1:08
Speaker 1: and well, Kylie, you've helped, you've helped, you've helped them
1:11
Speaker 1: to raise our six daughters.
1:13
Speaker 2: I've helped you.
1:14
Speaker 1: You've helped a cup, I've helped you. I said that,
1:19
Speaker 1: didn't I I actually said that the other day.
1:23
Speaker 2: I was scrolling, Yes, I was scrolling, having some brain
1:27
Speaker 2: numb time out, and I came across this song that
1:31
Speaker 2: this woman's written, and it was just such a beautiful depiction.
1:37
Speaker 1: This one you sent to me about being a good dad, yes,
1:39
Speaker 1: and how much dad helps your house. All right, So
1:42
Speaker 1: I've just looked it up. While you're talking. I've got
1:43
Speaker 1: it because you've sent to me and my messenger. I'm
1:46
Speaker 1: going to play this. It goes about a minute and
1:48
Speaker 1: a half, but it's it's worth it.
1:50
Speaker 3: I did the cooking and the cleaning and the groceries,
1:52
Speaker 3: and the lottery for the cat and the dog, and
1:53
Speaker 3: someone's throw a coffee. Got a gift for your mother
1:56
Speaker 3: that you probably won't like. Peter Belle wiped a buck,
1:58
Speaker 3: broke up a couple of five, just about lost my
2:01
Speaker 3: mind because we both took and hits of the park.
2:03
Speaker 3: And someone said to you, you are such a good dad.
2:11
Speaker 3: You are such a good dad. I woke at five
2:15
Speaker 3: am screaming in the hallway. There was barf in the bed,
2:18
Speaker 3: so another load of laundry. Our kid was crying, so
2:21
Speaker 3: we talked about our feelings. You were sleeping, that's cool.
2:28
Speaker 3: But then you got up and your mom came over
2:31
Speaker 3: and she said, you are such a good dad. You
2:38
Speaker 3: are such a good dad. Such a good dad. I
2:42
Speaker 3: did the bathtime, story time, the peak time, the snack time,
2:47
Speaker 3: I said go to bed just about a million times.
2:51
Speaker 3: Then I sat down to write this song, and you said,
2:57
Speaker 3: did you notice that bowed the lawn? Such a good dad.
3:04
Speaker 3: You are a good dad, good dad, You are such
3:10
Speaker 3: a good dad, such a good dad.
3:15
Speaker 1: You are literally cracking up about that whole thing.
3:19
Speaker 2: Oh look, it's the line where he asks whether or
3:21
Speaker 2: not I noticed if he'd mowed the lawn.
3:24
Speaker 1: That just gets me every time. And why why missus
3:28
Speaker 1: happy families? Why would that be the funniest line for
3:31
Speaker 1: you in the song? I'm just I'm just curious.
3:34
Speaker 2: After twenty five years of marriage, I can't count how
3:39
Speaker 2: many times you may have pointed out the good deeds
3:42
Speaker 2: that you've done for the day and hope that you
3:44
Speaker 2: would get a little bit of extra praise and appreciation.
3:48
Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I've said, probably every time.
3:50
Speaker 1: Did you notice I made the lawn? Did you notice
3:53
Speaker 1: I made the lawn? I'm such a good dad?
3:54
Speaker 2: Look at the dishes I hung the washing out?
3:58
Speaker 1: Will mean we want to be noticed for our nobility.
4:01
Speaker 1: We want o gosh. Anyway, that's not the purpose of
4:05
Speaker 1: our podcast today, but thanks for raising it. And there
4:07
Speaker 1: we go.
4:08
Speaker 2: Now, well, I'm grateful that you've recognized that I helped
4:11
Speaker 2: you raise our children.
4:12
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. Now the question the question that needs
4:15
Speaker 1: to be answered. I mean, we're halfway through the podcast.
4:17
Speaker 1: We haven't even gotten the question. So we're going to
4:19
Speaker 1: have to do a really great job for Anna, who
4:20
Speaker 1: has said, my children fight incessantly. It often becomes violent
4:24
Speaker 1: or involves the most hurtful, hateful insults. How do we
4:27
Speaker 1: deal with this without losing our cool, ourselves? And Anna's
4:30
Speaker 1: a number four three girls nine, fourteen, and sixteen and
4:34
Speaker 1: a nudiverse son who is also sixteen asd Adhd and
4:37
Speaker 1: depression so, I mean, the question from Anna is not
4:41
Speaker 1: how do I stop the kids fighting? It's actually how
4:43
Speaker 1: do I deal with it without losing my call? How
4:45
Speaker 1: do I self regulate? But there's a couple of things
4:47
Speaker 1: that we need to talk about in relation to this.
4:50
Speaker 1: First of all, I read it and thought like I
4:52
Speaker 1: felt like this was our life. I'm the parenting expert,
4:55
Speaker 1: I've written all the books, but the kids still fight.
4:58
Speaker 1: In fact, the secrets to stop being sibling rivalry is
5:01
Speaker 1: to not have siblings, and if you have siblings, you
5:04
Speaker 1: can rest assured that they will be fighting. I think
5:08
Speaker 1: there's another thing that I've made mention of this previously
5:10
Speaker 1: on the podcast, but I'll mention it again. The idea
5:15
Speaker 1: that our children will always get along is just an
5:19
Speaker 1: unhelpful expectation. And the reason I say that is because
5:23
Speaker 1: as an adult, how old were you before you finally
5:26
Speaker 1: began to get along with your siblings.
5:29
Speaker 2: We've talked about this a lot over the time we've
5:32
Speaker 2: been podcasting together, but I guess my concern more is
5:37
Speaker 2: that if there is a lack of contention and fighting
5:43
Speaker 2: within any relationship, then how much are we actually being
5:48
Speaker 2: authentic in how we feel? Because the reality is we're all.
5:53
Speaker 2: Every single one of us is individual, and we have
5:56
Speaker 2: different likes and dislikes, and we are not going to
5:58
Speaker 2: agree with everything that everybody's So.
6:00
Speaker 1: It's really about how we navigate those differences. And what
6:04
Speaker 1: I'm saying is the kids are not navigating this well, no,
6:06
Speaker 1: but there is no.
6:07
Speaker 2: If there is no wrestle there in any given relationship,
6:11
Speaker 2: then then one of us isn't being real.
6:13
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's my real point. I don't. I wanted
6:16
Speaker 1: to spell the idea that there is a quick, easy
6:18
Speaker 1: solution for this, because there isn't. I came across a quote.
6:22
Speaker 1: I'm a really big fan of the James Clear newsletter.
6:25
Speaker 1: James Clear, who wrote the book Atomic Habits. He has
6:27
Speaker 1: this newsletter that comes out once a week and it's
6:30
Speaker 1: really bite sized chunks of wisdom, and he shared a
6:33
Speaker 1: quote in a recent newsletter. I think it was the
6:35
Speaker 1: one from Oh yeah, it was the most recent one.
6:38
Speaker 1: A writer by the name of Jeanette Winterson said this
6:40
Speaker 1: about life quote. We live in a society that pedals solutions,
6:44
Speaker 1: whether it's solutions to those extra pounds you're carrying, or
6:47
Speaker 1: do your thinning hair, or do your loss of appetite,
6:49
Speaker 1: loss of love. We're always looking for solutions, but actually
6:52
Speaker 1: what we're engaged in is a process throughout life during
6:55
Speaker 1: which you never get it right. You have to keep
6:58
Speaker 1: being open, you have to keep moving forward, you have
6:59
Speaker 1: to keep finding out who you are and how you're changing,
7:01
Speaker 1: and only that makes life tolerable. So I guess I
7:05
Speaker 1: share that because I want to dispel the idea that
7:10
Speaker 1: we can turn around and give everybody a solution to
7:14
Speaker 1: how to fix this or how to fix that on
7:16
Speaker 1: a podcast, especially when we're going to got ten or
7:18
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and it's a time parenting podcast. It's meant
7:22
Speaker 1: to be about quick solutions where we've got them. The reality, though,
7:26
Speaker 1: is that there are things that we can do that
7:27
Speaker 1: can facilitate the process of getting better with conflict in families. Well,
7:32
Speaker 1: that's it.
7:32
Speaker 2: We're actually not going to stop the conflict. What we're
7:34
Speaker 2: doing is helping our children navigate the conflict in our
7:38
Speaker 2: productive ways, as opposed to in this instance, really hurtful
7:43
Speaker 2: and damaging ways.
7:48
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast or the type
7:50
Speaker 1: or parent who just wants answers. Now, let's talk about
7:53
Speaker 1: some solutions and ways forward with sibling rivalry and conflict.
8:00
Speaker 1: First major point is that your kids already know. I mean,
8:04
Speaker 1: if you've got kids who are nine and fourteen and
8:06
Speaker 1: sixteen and sixteen, they actually know what's expected. You've taught
8:11
Speaker 1: them explicitly, but it's a process of learning.
8:15
Speaker 2: And you know that they know because they wouldn't actually
8:17
Speaker 2: take this behavior outside of the home in any other relationship.
8:22
Speaker 2: They have learnt the art of respectful in communication and interactions.
8:27
Speaker 2: This is done within the safety of their home.
8:31
Speaker 1: Yep. The second thing that I want to say is
8:32
Speaker 1: just because they know doesn't mean they're going to be
8:34
Speaker 1: good at doing it. It's really hard because high emotion
8:36
Speaker 1: is equals low intelligence. When you're on the brink, you
8:38
Speaker 1: need to stop and think, and we don't do that
8:40
Speaker 1: very well at all when we're super emotional.
8:44
Speaker 2: Well, often the conflict of that is in the home
8:47
Speaker 2: has actually not started in the home. Yeah, Sometimes there
8:50
Speaker 2: is emotional turmoil throughout their day that they're not able
8:54
Speaker 2: to express. They don't feel safe to express with other
8:57
Speaker 2: people because they know what it means to be respectful
9:00
Speaker 2: all of those kinds of things, and they don't know
9:01
Speaker 2: how to navigate that conflict simply or effectively outside the home.
9:07
Speaker 2: So they bring that tension and that anks into the
9:10
Speaker 2: home and then things blow up.
9:13
Speaker 1: Sometimes though it is just a painful sibling, somebody who's
9:16
Speaker 1: been disrespectful to them, and they feel like they need
9:19
Speaker 1: to react and they need to retaliate. So in terms
9:22
Speaker 1: of best ways to respond, first off, we need to
9:25
Speaker 1: teach our kids that they're not thinking straight in a
9:28
Speaker 1: high emotion state. We need to teach them that high
9:31
Speaker 1: emotions equals low intelligence, and that if they're having any
9:34
Speaker 1: kind of interaction, highly emotive interaction with a sibling, it's
9:38
Speaker 1: going to go badly. So something that we've always emphasized
9:41
Speaker 1: with our kids is that you want to have a
9:42
Speaker 1: soft startup. You don't want to launch in with it
9:44
Speaker 1: no or you're an idiot or anything like that. You
9:47
Speaker 1: want to start really softly. But secondly, if emotion is
9:49
Speaker 1: a high, get out of there. Just deal with it
9:51
Speaker 1: later when everyone's calmed down. Not that that works very
9:54
Speaker 1: often because they get they get into victim mode. They
9:58
Speaker 1: get into this mode where they feel like they're just
10:00
Speaker 1: in doing and saying horrible things to each other because
10:02
Speaker 1: of what the other one did to them.
10:05
Speaker 2: I had a similar conversation with one of our girls
10:07
Speaker 2: the other day. In relation to this, we have two
10:11
Speaker 2: children in particular close in age, and they really are struggling, Yes,
10:16
Speaker 2: a lot of conflict.
10:17
Speaker 1: And they're in that same age group that Anna has
10:19
Speaker 1: mentioned in her email.
10:20
Speaker 2: But what I've noticed time and time again is that
10:25
Speaker 2: every interaction somebody, well they actually both do. They both
10:30
Speaker 2: choose to be the victim, and in choosing to be
10:33
Speaker 2: the victim, they actually stay in the situation because then
10:39
Speaker 2: the behavior that is hurtful to them continues. It then
10:44
Speaker 2: justifies them and being angry and reacting in the way
10:47
Speaker 2: that they want.
10:48
Speaker 1: To and becoming the aggressor, and the.
10:50
Speaker 2: Cycle keeps perpetuating and things keep getting bigger and bigger
10:54
Speaker 2: and bigger.
10:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I call this the vicious circle. Right, somebody
10:57
Speaker 1: does something to you feel lousy, so you feel now
10:59
Speaker 1: justified into something to them because of what they did
11:01
Speaker 1: to you. Because now you've done that to them, they
11:03
Speaker 1: feel justified in doing something to you because they're not
11:07
Speaker 1: seeing themselves as being the catalyst. In fact, maybe you
11:09
Speaker 1: did something to them and you don't know about it,
11:11
Speaker 1: and that's why they were doing what they were doing
11:12
Speaker 1: to you. Anyway, So we get into this vicious circle.
11:15
Speaker 2: And the self justification takes over and no one is
11:19
Speaker 2: seen clearly. It's amazing how much we choose to live
11:23
Speaker 2: in a state of misery when one simple act would
11:28
Speaker 2: actually remove us from that environment.
11:30
Speaker 1: And that act is usually walk away, walk away. Yeah,
11:34
Speaker 1: we'll deal with this later when we're not emotional. And
11:36
Speaker 1: the other thing that strikes me as fascinating, and you
11:38
Speaker 1: can talk to the kids about this ana, is what
11:41
Speaker 1: are you fighting about? Like literally most of us that
11:44
Speaker 1: where adults or kids are fighting about pretty much nothing.
11:48
Speaker 1: It's this perceived slide, it's this tiny little thing. Now granted,
11:52
Speaker 1: sometimes it is actually a big thing, but more often
11:55
Speaker 1: than not, it's essentially nothing that we're fighting about. But
11:58
Speaker 1: we get so caught up in our self justification and
12:00
Speaker 1: in our victimhood.
12:01
Speaker 2: And our self righteousness and our.
12:03
Speaker 1: Self righteousness that we decide that we need to make
12:06
Speaker 1: the other person pay for what they've done, and we
12:09
Speaker 1: take our victim mentality and turn it into I'm going
12:11
Speaker 1: to lash out. I'm feeling weak, I'm feeling vengeful, I'm
12:15
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm justified in doing whatever I want. So
12:18
Speaker 1: what do we do instead as a parent trying to
12:21
Speaker 1: deal with this in the moment just never works. So
12:24
Speaker 1: keeping our call is critical. That means that we take
12:26
Speaker 1: a big, deep breath, we ask ourselves what would I
12:30
Speaker 1: do if somebody else was watching right now? So my
12:33
Speaker 1: favorite strategies are what we call psychological distancing or self distancing,
12:37
Speaker 1: and this is where we create some space between us
12:39
Speaker 1: and the situation. Sometimes we have to be in this situation,
12:42
Speaker 1: so we create the space by a imagining that somebody
12:45
Speaker 1: is watching us literally, Like I can't tell you how
12:48
Speaker 1: many parents have said, I just imagine that doctor Justin
12:50
Speaker 1: Coulson is watching me in the living room while I'm
12:54
Speaker 1: having this interaction with the kids. And if that helps you,
12:57
Speaker 1: you're going to be a better parent.
12:58
Speaker 3: Right.
12:58
Speaker 1: Imagine that you're in a public place, imagine that where
13:00
Speaker 1: you don't want to be seen to be at your worst,
13:02
Speaker 1: you need to be seen to be at your best.
13:03
Speaker 1: The second psychological distancing strategy that I recommend is when
13:09
Speaker 1: you channel your inner mental mentor think about somebody that
13:13
Speaker 1: you know that does this stuff really well, and just
13:15
Speaker 1: try to be them for the next thirty seconds while
13:17
Speaker 1: you're interacting with your child. Don't be you, be them.
13:20
Speaker 1: And the third idea is just try to create space
13:25
Speaker 1: temporarily by thinking if we were talking about this in
13:27
Speaker 1: an hour, how would it be different to how we're
13:29
Speaker 1: talking about it right now, And then you might just
13:31
Speaker 1: step in and say, right, guys, we're not going to
13:33
Speaker 1: even talk about this right now because everyone's really emotional,
13:35
Speaker 1: and high emotions equals on intelligence. We're going to say
13:37
Speaker 1: something dumb that we regret. So let's just go to
13:40
Speaker 1: different rooms. Let's just get out of each other's face.
13:43
Speaker 2: So you got to go to your corner.
13:44
Speaker 1: I guess so, and in an hour or a day
13:46
Speaker 1: or in a week, we're going to sit down and
13:47
Speaker 1: we're going to work out what's going on, and we're
13:49
Speaker 1: going to problem solve solutions. When it comes to that
13:53
Speaker 1: problem solving process, what you really wanted to do is say,
13:56
Speaker 1: how do you feel? How does your sistory or brother feel?
13:59
Speaker 1: How do I feel? Has the family feel? What's the
14:02
Speaker 1: culture that we're creating, what's the culture that we want?
14:04
Speaker 1: There's obviously a gap? What do we do about it?
14:06
Speaker 1: And it's that kind of problem solving that we bring
14:08
Speaker 1: the kids in on when they're not emotional.
14:11
Speaker 2: What actually really blew me away When I was having
14:13
Speaker 2: this conversation with one of our girls the other day,
14:15
Speaker 2: was just how readily she could see outside of the moment,
14:22
Speaker 2: how she was contributing to the problem, but in the moment,
14:27
Speaker 2: we think it's the other person's fault. Perfect, And I
14:31
Speaker 2: just I was actually really proud of her that she
14:36
Speaker 2: could step back and recognize that she actually plays a
14:39
Speaker 2: significant part in it and there are things that she
14:42
Speaker 2: could do differently. And so are we going to stop
14:46
Speaker 2: the conflict in our home?
14:48
Speaker 1: Never?
14:49
Speaker 2: I don't think it's possible, but continuing to have these
14:54
Speaker 2: kinds of conversations with our children outside of the moment,
14:58
Speaker 2: where they're able to recognize the part they play in it,
15:02
Speaker 2: but also feel that we're on their side, that we're
15:06
Speaker 2: not an enemy, that we're not blaming them, that we
15:09
Speaker 2: recognize that this is really hard, and that we can
15:13
Speaker 2: sympathize and empathize with them, but help them to with
15:19
Speaker 2: some psychological distance, work out ways that they can navigate
15:22
Speaker 2: this better next time.
15:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, recognizing that there's no one size fit soul solution,
15:26
Speaker 1: and no matter what you come up with, they're going
15:27
Speaker 1: to get emotional, they're going to forget everything they've talked about.
15:30
Speaker 1: And when we're under pressure and when we're angry, we
15:32
Speaker 1: revert to our most practiced habit, which sometimes is yelling
15:35
Speaker 1: and fighting and screaming and saying unkind things, which means
15:37
Speaker 1: that we need to rehearse it again and again and again,
15:40
Speaker 1: like this is a process. And we hope that's a
15:44
Speaker 1: helpful response to your question and anyone else who's dealing
15:46
Speaker 1: with some sibling conflict and rivalry and challenges. The Happy
15:49
Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
15:52
Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and for more information
15:55
Speaker 1: about making your family happier, you can visit us at
15:57
Speaker 1: Happy families dot com, dot a u oh and Happy
16:00
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day m HM.