Latest / The Neurodivergent Lens / Coaching, Culture & Neurodivergence in Women's Football | Carly Williams (Brentford FC Women)

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Coaching, Culture & Neurodivergence in Women's Football | Carly Williams (Brentford FC Women) · The Neurodivergent Lens

• 0:00
  Meryem - Host: Welcome to the Neurodivergent Lens.
• 0:02
  Meryem - Host: I have a very special guest with me here today, and that's Carly Williams.
• 0:14
  Meryem - Host: Carly has spent her career not just working within the women and girls' football or soccer, depending on where you are in the world, but actively reshaping it.
• 0:24
  Meryem - Host: Carly Williams began her coaching journey in grassroots football before making her way into the girls' game, where she would go on to spend over seven years at Arsenal Women's Academy.
• 0:36
  Meryem - Host: There, she coached across the younger age groups and ultimately took on a pioneering player care role, the first of its kind in Girls Academy anywhere in the UK.
• 0:48
  Meryem - Host: Now, as head coach of Brentford FC women's first team, she is leading the club through an exciting new chapter.
• 0:56
  Meryem - Host: Away from club football, Carly is England School's Under-15s team manager and has worked within the England women's under-17th squad as part of the England Elite Coach Programme.
• 1:09
  Meryem - Host: She is also an FA coach, mentor, and tutor.
• 1:13
  Meryem - Host: As if that weren't enough, Carly is also a qualified therapy radiographer, a teacher, and is on the verge of completing a UEFA A license.
• 1:23
  Meryem - Host: Her contribution to the game has not gone unrecognised.
• 1:27
  Meryem - Host: She is a two-time award winner of a Football Blacklist Coaching and Management Award of the Year, an honour that speaks for itself.
• 1:35
  Meryem - Host: And as a player, she represented Tottenham Hotspur and Enfield Town.
• 1:41
  Meryem - Host: Carly, welcome.
• 1:44
  Meryem - Host: Thank you for having me.
• 1:45
  Meryem - Host: So Carly, this is an impressive resume.
• 1:49
  Meryem - Host: And we would love to hear more about you as the coach and how you started your coaching career.
• 1:55
  Carly - Guest: For me, obviously, I think football was always part of my journey, but I think my coaching journey really started with my eldest son when he decided he was going to go into football.
• 2:06
  Carly - Guest: So for me, I was stood by the side of the pitch watching him, and there was an opportunity to come in and kind of coach him, and I felt like I had something to give at that point.
• 2:14
  Carly - Guest: Big thing for me was I was working in the summer and I was kind of watching him and seeing how he was doing.
• 2:20
  Carly - Guest: And the head coach came over to me and said, Oh, we've got a female player here today.
• 2:24
  Carly - Guest: Do you mind coming stand by the pitch?
• 2:26
  Carly - Guest: Um, it's safe to say I wasn't by the pitch for an hour and I was by the pitch for the rest of the day.
• 2:31
  Carly - Guest: So I think that's that's how my coaching journey started was coaching my my eldest Tyler and and also kind of trying to help out and try and inspire um some young girls that were playing football in a boys' environment.
• 2:45
  Meryem - Host: So you made the transition from coaching boys and segued into coaching girls.
• 2:50
  Meryem - Host: How did that come about?
• 2:51
  Carly - Guest: I think for me, in terms of kind of I I never um well, I've never thought about whether we're playing boys or we're playing girls, and I think that for me, football is football, so I think that's really important.
• 3:03
  Carly - Guest: So it got to the point where my son needed to go into a football academy and and I went into the women's game, and I think the opportunity came up at Arsenal, and uh, I decided that it was a fantastic opportunity.
• 3:13
  Carly - Guest: So he he wasn't very happy about me not coaching men anymore, but I think we we both needed to go on our next journey, so yeah, it kind of got to a point at under 13s where he needed to go into the academy system, so yeah, it was a great opportunity for me to step into the women's game.
• 3:28
  Meryem - Host: Yeah, sounds like it was a really good kind of grounding as well, actually.
• 3:33
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think like it's it's always going to be a great opportunity going into an elite environment like that.
• 3:38
  Carly - Guest: So yeah, it was a great opportunity.
• 3:40
  Meryem - Host: What was the landscape like and the infrastructure like for the girls' game in Essex?
• 3:46
  Carly - Guest: Um, there was no there was nothing in Essex um in terms of football for the girls, there was school football and then there was nothing else.
• 3:53
  Carly - Guest: So I actually worked with one of um my eldest son's uh coaches to build Basildon District under 15th.
• 4:00
  Carly - Guest: Um it was a real good opportunity to bring elite football into the into the game there.
• 4:05
  Carly - Guest: Um I think at the time there was Essex RTC and then there was nothing in between between Norwich, Ipswich, your West Dam, your Tottenham, your Arsenal.
• 4:12
  Carly - Guest: So there's a big gap in Essex, and there always has been around that talent and how you nurture that elite environment.
• 4:18
  Carly - Guest: So yeah, there's there's lots of talent out there, but yeah, we just need to make sure we keep pushing opportunities.
• 4:24
  Meryem - Host: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:25
  Meryem - Host: I know that you are working within the England setup as well.
• 4:28
  Meryem - Host: Could you say a little bit more about how that feels to work with the England setup?
• 4:34
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think I've I've had two opportunities over the last few years.
• 4:38
  Carly - Guest: One as working in the England pathway with the under-17s, and they went on a fantastic Euros and World Cup run, and that was a great experience to bent up, kind of have mentors and have those fantastic coaches in the game where I could look up to and kind of learn things from.
• 4:53
  Carly - Guest: And then I also had the opportunity to go in under Sharm Williams in the England Schools under 15 setup, and and then I became manager of that setup as well.
• 5:02
  Carly - Guest: So it was a great opportunity for me.
• 5:04
  Carly - Guest: I wanted to get involved because it's an opportunity to see the talent that we've got coming through all across the country.
• 5:08
  Carly - Guest: So there are those opportunities there, but you've still got to have schools that nominate you, you've got to have kids playing county to be eligible.
• 5:15
  Carly - Guest: So there's still a gap in there for for girls to play, but I think it's about us really pushing that elite environment.
• 5:23
  Meryem - Host: And it sounds like that's something that you're very much involved in actually pushing, because I know that you're involved in in player care, because that was part of the role that you occupied at Arsenal.
• 5:34
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, so I was um I was whilst I was working as a radiographer, I was also a coach for five years at Arsenal, and then an opportunity came and I took a care a career break from the NHS and and it gave me an opportunity to work in football full-time.
• 5:48
  Carly - Guest: Um, I was player care lead.
• 5:49
  Carly - Guest: They they wanted someone to come in that knew the environment.
• 5:52
  Carly - Guest: I obviously was quite familiar with Arsenal.
• 5:55
  Carly - Guest: My son being in the game player care wise, I knew as a parent what works, what doesn't.
• 5:59
  Carly - Guest: And then obviously I'd already transitioned as a teacher.
• 6:02
  Carly - Guest: So I knew from an education point of view.
• 6:04
  Carly - Guest: So yeah, I had the opportunity to kind of lead the player care strategy, build it from scratch at Arsenal that works for them, um, and real trying to push that environment forwards and push player care forwards.
• 6:14
  Carly - Guest: So, yeah, I think there's there's great opportunities out there in player care, which is about more of the pastoral care, the off-pitch care.
• 6:21
  Carly - Guest: Um, and and at Arsenal, I also got the opportunity to build the human development curriculum.
• 6:25
  Carly - Guest: So that was everything off-pitch from how they organize themselves to kind of how they prepare for a football game, and then also line manage sports like, so really kind of built that curriculum of sports like and I guess the kind of the holistic care around players.
• 6:40
  Carly - Guest: So yeah, it was a fantastic opportunity, which I which I did for two years, but I also made sure I did coaching at the same time.
• 6:46
  Carly - Guest: So I coached in the under-21s as well.
• 6:48
  Carly - Guest: So I spent most of my time with them anyway.
• 6:51
  Carly - Guest: So it it was a great opportunity to kind of do both balanced player care and coaching.
• 6:56
  Meryem - Host: And as far as I'm aware, that was a new setup.
• 6:59
  Meryem - Host: That was that was something, a role that didn't exist beforehand.
• 7:02
  Meryem - Host: And here you were kind of like then occupying that role.
• 7:05
  Meryem - Host: So you must have had been integral in kind of shaping that and and bringing in all of the aspects that you've mentioned.
• 7:14
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, for me, like it was a real important role that we were kind of missing in the women's academy game.
• 7:19
  Carly - Guest: I think obviously the FA brought in kind of red regulations where you had to have a player care lead.
• 7:24
  Carly - Guest: So it was a real opportunity for us to kind of push forwards, and it was one of the first roles of its kind.
• 7:30
  Carly - Guest: So yeah, there's a group of those player cares that are still in the academy game trying to push it forwards, and obviously it's got to be bespoke.
• 7:38
  Carly - Guest: It it can't be a carbon copy of the boys' game because that doesn't work.
• 7:42
  Carly - Guest: The resources are different, the players are different, the player needs are different.
• 7:44
  Carly - Guest: So I think that's really important.
• 7:46
  Carly - Guest: And for me to kind of do the strategy and revamp the strategy, revamp it again, and then I think it was someone else's to kind of take to the next level.
• 7:54
  Carly - Guest: So that that's when I decided that I needed to get back on the grass.
• 7:57
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's it's definitely an important part of the women's game, and especially at the very elite game where they're transitioning.
• 8:04
  Carly - Guest: Players are potentially missing exams for Euros and Champions League finals, and and making sure that you kind of support those those players, those top talents, like your Katie Reids, your Michelle Adjuman, your Viv Leas, um, and and make sure that they are able to get an education and have a dual career, and that's a massive part that player care kind of looks after in the women's game.
• 8:26
  Meryem - Host: So expanding a little bit more on that player care aspect, um, what kind of things would you be assisting young people with?
• 8:34
  Meryem - Host: What what kind of you mentioned about pastoral care and you mentioned about bringing in psych educators and what on a day-to-day level, what kind of support would you have been giving individuals?
• 8:48
  Carly - Guest: Obviously, it the support that the players got ranged.
• 8:51
  Carly - Guest: So I was looking after 168 players across under-nines to under-21.
• 8:55
  Carly - Guest: So their needs and what what they needed looked very different.
• 8:58
  Carly - Guest: I think uh a big thing was obviously education and those players that maybe need a little bit of support in education to maybe learn in and how they learn as a footballer in in our environment.
• 9:09
  Carly - Guest: So that was kind of really important, and and the support as well.
• 9:13
  Carly - Guest: So supporting the coaches to recognize when things are behaviour issues or actually when it's kind of a neurodivergent kind of traits that they're showing, and maybe they might be undiagnosed.
• 9:24
  Carly - Guest: So I think that's really important around the support and education around the coaches, what it means when you've got someone looking after pastoral care.
• 9:31
  Carly - Guest: You you can make sure that everything outside of football um looks okay and that they're that they're supported in their journey.
• 9:38
  Carly - Guest: Um, and I think that can be from an education lens, that could be um, there could be young carers, um, it could be that you know you're you're making sure that those players are kind of turning up on time or that they've got enough resources.
• 9:50
  Carly - Guest: And something we were really proud of at Arsenal was around a hardship fund that kind of supported those players and made sure that it was open access and everyone, it it was an inclusive environment that everyone had access to, and that we could break down those barriers.
• 10:04
  Carly - Guest: And that that was massive for us, making sure that in that kind of London area that though those girls all had access to play, and whether that was support with boots or whether that was support with travel, making sure that you know Arsenal was accessible wherever our training venues was.
• 10:19
  Meryem - Host: Yeah, I can I can see actually how important that would have been.
• 10:23
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, and with the older ones, it was probably more performance-based.
• 10:26
  Carly - Guest: So, did they need um sports like support in terms of handling pressure and managing pressure and or did they need kind of modifications in terms of their development plans and what what they were going after?
• 10:37
  Carly - Guest: So, and I guess a big part for me of the player care role was around transition.
• 10:41
  Carly - Guest: So players are not going to stay every year, but big thing for me was that every player that left Arsenal made sure that they was in a club, whether that was they wanted to play for a grassroots club or they were sent out early to trial for other academies and really putting the power in their hands around their transition and the power in their hands around what their next club might look like, and really kind of I guess taking away not the Arsenal badge as such, but you know, teaching them the importance that they're a footballer that plays at Arsenal, they're not an Arsenal footballer.
• 11:10
  Carly - Guest: So I think that kind of identity piece is is really key, and I think player care working with Sports Like on that, I think was a real important part in that kind of journey whilst I was there.
• 11:20
  Meryem - Host: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:20
  Meryem - Host: And I was just thinking that as a neurodivergent work girl who was who got into football quite late, one of the things that was really important was the cultural aspect within the club that I was playing in.
• 11:32
  Meryem - Host: So whether or not the diversity was celebrated or there was a positive culture within the club in terms in terms of talking about whether it's neurodiversity or diversity in general.
• 11:46
  Meryem - Host: That to me feels a really important aspect around neurodivergent individuals.
• 11:52
  Meryem - Host: And I wonder what you may have noticed, obviously, as the head coach of Brentford women's first team.
• 11:58
  Carly - Guest: Culture is always important.
• 12:00
  Carly - Guest: So, um, regardless of diversity or um neurodiversity, I think it's important the culture that you've you've built, and I think that's really important in terms of even bringing new players in.
• 12:11
  Carly - Guest: And I've spoken a lot around balancing culture and talent, and I think a big thing or a big success for me in the last year was around building culture in that Brentford women's team.
• 12:20
  Carly - Guest: Um, so for me, I think if it's a safe environment, um it's good for everyone.
• 12:25
  Carly - Guest: So it doesn't matter at what point you are in terms of your life or things that are happening in your life, and you know, there's there's new diagnosis all the time.
• 12:33
  Carly - Guest: So it's making sure that that environment is safe, making sure that players are supportive, making sure that staff are aware that need to be aware.
• 12:40
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's what's really important.
• 12:42
  Carly - Guest: Sometimes neurodivergent players are um, I guess, reluctant to kind of say that they're being diagnosed, or reluctant to just, I guess, give a diagnosis because they don't want to be judged.
• 12:55
  Carly - Guest: And I think really making sure that that's a safe environment can be really key, and working with them in terms of how they like to learn things that might be challenges.
• 13:03
  Carly - Guest: Is it a cone colour?
• 13:04
  Carly - Guest: Is it too many cones?
• 13:05
  Carly - Guest: And making sure that in your planning you've you've taken that into account and how you kind of interact with those players can be really key.
• 13:12
  Carly - Guest: Is it one-to-one?
• 13:13
  Carly - Guest: Is it making sure you're not calling them out in a group?
• 13:16
  Carly - Guest: Is it making sure that you know they have information that they need about the session that's upcoming and you give them that information so they come in prepared, anxiety levels are low, they know what to expect.
• 13:27
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's what's really key for me is in terms of really looking at that individual.
• 13:31
  Carly - Guest: What does that individual need and make sure that it's a safe space for them?
• 13:36
  Meryem - Host: I really liked the aspect of you talking about creating a safe environment because one of the things that we talk about within neurodivergent structures is psychological safety.
• 13:46
  Meryem - Host: So, what's great is that you're already talking about creating safe environments, addressing the culture, looking at how to work with the individual around their individual traits or their individual needs.
• 13:59
  Meryem - Host: What happens when you have or you may suspect that you have a neurodivergent player and yet they may not have got to that place of kind of awareness for themselves?
• 14:11
  Carly - Guest: I think obviously for me, around I make sure that my environment is safe as a culture, but then also I make sure that I build good rapport with each individual player.
• 14:21
  Carly - Guest: So I think that that safety for them in order for them to come and tell me when they've got struggles, or we've got a well-being team and a safeguarding team that may be able to pick up those traits that they're showing, or maybe struggles that we may be able to prompt them.
• 14:34
  Carly - Guest: Um, I'm not going to diagnose anyone as neurodivergent, but I might send them or prompt them to a resource, or whether it's an education officer, to kind of help support them in navigating that.
• 14:44
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's a massive thing in females, I think, is the fear of having to navigate a neurodivergent, I guess, trait in older life.
• 14:54
  Carly - Guest: So I think for me at the moment, obviously, when I was at Arsenal, there was players that were undiagnosed and they were under nine.
• 15:00
  Carly - Guest: But obviously at Brentford, I've got players that are from 16 to in their 30s, and I think it's really difficult for kind of older females to kind of recognise they're they're a bit like I've always been like this and and struggle on.
• 15:13
  Carly - Guest: So I think them knowing that you know that supports their football being an escapism and that it's not going to impact that.
• 15:19
  Carly - Guest: Um, it's all about how they learn, do they need information in different ways, and how we can best support them in our environment.
• 15:25
  Carly - Guest: And I think that making that environment safe is is really important for those players.
• 15:31
  Meryem - Host: I mean, that's that's a really good way of looking at actually working with neurodivergent clients and those who suspect that they're neurodivergent.
• 15:40
  Meryem - Host: One of the things that we we know already from research and statistics is that girls tend to be missed, their neurodivergent tends to be missed through the educational systems and wider systems, and often can also be misdiagnosed.
• 15:58
  Meryem - Host: So it's really valuable actually that people like yourself have got the awareness that you've got.
• 16:04
  Meryem - Host: I'm imagining that you haven't seen much of that across the spectrum in terms of other coaching environments, but I think it's increasing.
• 16:13
  Carly - Guest: I think like we've all kind of looked in terms of COVID.
• 16:16
  Carly - Guest: I think there was a massive spike in diagnoses during COVID, and I think that that was seen within the population of women's football as well.
• 16:23
  Carly - Guest: And I think there there was a big focus on females and diagnosing females.
• 16:27
  Carly - Guest: So I think as schools get better at kind of diagnosing and I I guess identifying um people that might need a little bit of support, I think that kind of helps.
• 16:37
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's it's clearer.
• 16:39
  Carly - Guest: I think, you know, players and parents are now a little bit, I guess they they feel a little bit safer about disclosing those those diagnoses.
• 16:48
  Carly - Guest: Whereas previous in previous years there was such a stigma behind it that they didn't.
• 16:52
  Carly - Guest: So the numbers are probably increasing, but it's probably not necessarily about the numbers increasing, it's actually just the confidence to diagnose and the confidence that your coaches can understand you.
• 17:03
  Carly - Guest: And that's where it's really important, regardless of whether there's a diagnosis.
• 17:06
  Carly - Guest: You you take the player as the individual that they are, and and I think that you make the environment the best that it can be for them to be the best player they can be.
• 17:14
  Meryem - Host: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Meryem - Host: And you're a great neurodivergent ally, and and I'm imagining that your experience is actually building that awareness and raising that awareness within your club structure and your staff team.
• 17:27
  Meryem - Host: So, how do you support your staff and how do you kind of impart that knowledge to the rest of your staff team and to the rest of the kind of structure around you?
• 17:37
  Carly - Guest: I think for me, it's obviously important to acknowledge that I probably gained those transferable skills when I was a radiographer in the NHS or when I was a teacher and what that kind of looked like.
• 17:47
  Carly - Guest: I I had a lot of classes where I had neurodivergent um, I guess, pupils, and then also I had kind of lower sets where maybe maybe some of those pupils were, you know, seen as a naughty child rather than actually look at the diagnosis, and it's really hard to kind of diagnose when there's other issues kind of going on with those pupils.
• 18:07
  Carly - Guest: So I think I've taken those transferable skills, that that pastoral background that I've got kind of into player care at Arsenal and then beyond into Brentford.
• 18:16
  Carly - Guest: And there's some fantastic allies in Brentford as well, and I think that's really important in terms of you know knowing who to go to.
• 18:23
  Carly - Guest: And I think I also don't think I know everything.
• 18:26
  Carly - Guest: So actually, it's knowing who you can go to that's going to help you with those resources.
• 18:30
  Carly - Guest: Um, and a big thing around females is trust.
• 18:33
  Carly - Guest: So actually, they may disclose a diagnosis to you, but that doesn't mean that you need to go and tell the whole MDT.
• 18:39
  Carly - Guest: I think only the re relevant people need to know.
• 18:41
  Carly - Guest: So is it the medical team need to know and the coaching team doesn't because it doesn't impact them on the pitch, but they just wanted myself to know, or they wanted certain people to know sometimes you know their struggles in the rest of their life, and they ask me where I can tell the staff group, just so that everyone's aware.
• 18:57
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's really going to that individual and asking what support they need.
• 19:01
  Carly - Guest: Can we help them?
• 19:02
  Carly - Guest: Can we signpost them?
• 19:03
  Carly - Guest: Can we check in with them?
• 19:04
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's really important because obviously, with life stresses, whether it's exams or if it's something going on with their family, I think that can impact football.
• 19:12
  Carly - Guest: So I think for me it's around that that little bit around how do you look after the player, how do you make sure you've got their best interest, and and how do you make sure they've always got support around them.
• 19:23
  Meryem - Host: I I totally agree.
• 19:24
  Meryem - Host: I mean, I I can just hear also how passionate you are about that, which is great, because I think we that's very much needed because you mentioned about stigma, and I there is still such a stigma out there, and of course, we're talking about the the girls and women's game, where yes, it's had such so much success on the back of the lioness's uh vic victories and and wins in the in the Euros and across the board, but there is so much more to be achieved, and and so many more barriers in terms of reducing stigma and being able to acknowledge neurodivergence.
• 20:02
  Meryem - Host: I mean, I'm aware that Lucy Bronze, who is now the ambassador for the National Autistic Society, she went for her diagnosis on autism and ADHD in in 2021, and she was very brave in openly coming out and discussing that.
• 20:19
  Meryem - Host: And I mean, that in itself, and and she's a higher profile player, if you like, uh, and it's still a brave thing for somebody to do, and she was very openly talking about her experience of how her neurodivergent traits show up.
• 20:37
  Meryem - Host: That sense of, you know, her mind, like the ADHD aspect, her mind working 100 miles an hour, which meant that she could stay one step ahead.
• 20:46
  Meryem - Host: And she was very openly talking about her, perhaps some of her more autistic traits, which could be misunderstood as being a bit socially awkward or or a bit socially distant and kind of not meeting people's eye contact.
• 21:02
  Meryem - Host: And there feels like there is still stigma out there, and it's still a risk for people, particularly girls, to kind of step forward and well, first go on that personal journey and unravel that for themselves, would also be in the spotlight.
• 21:19
  Meryem - Host: We've got more girls being paid and being uh paid to play, which is great, and also having more of a profile.
• 21:29
  Meryem - Host: How might you help them manage that in the kind of spotlight when it's kind of shined on them?
• 21:36
  Carly - Guest: I think obviously, in terms of when when it's a spotlight or it's a media, if if that's one of their traits that they're not comfortable with, whether they're socially awkward or whether it's just a kind of a mental block of something that they don't want to do.
• 21:49
  Carly - Guest: I think it's important having the team around them that have had the conversation around what are they comfortable to do.
• 21:54
  Carly - Guest: I think now I guess there's a lot of training on media training and kind of bits like that.
• 21:58
  Carly - Guest: So you kind of identify.
• 21:59
  Carly - Guest: By them internally in club.
• 22:01
  Carly - Guest: And I think a lot of players are aware of players that kind of have neurodiversity in within their teams, but it's maybe not necessarily out there as a public thing.
• 22:12
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's about we're we're always, and especially in women's football, it's all about how do you support your teammates.
• 22:18
  Carly - Guest: So a big value for us at Brentford is togetherness.
• 22:21
  Carly - Guest: So that then covers kind of anyone that kind of struggles in a social background because actually we we bring them along with us.
• 22:28
  Carly - Guest: So it's not necessarily about whether they're neurodiverse or not.
• 22:31
  Carly - Guest: It it might just be that, you know, that's not their comfortable, I guess, home or comfortable wheelhouse.
• 22:37
  Carly - Guest: So how do we make sure that you know our environment is somewhere where everyone belongs?
• 22:42
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's the big thing that women's football maybe has over some other sports is that that real feeling of belonging.
• 22:49
  Carly - Guest: And hopefully Lucy Bronze having the confidence to go and get her own diagnosis and then share that is that feeling of belonging that she's had in elite environments, whether that's a coach, whether that's the whole club.
• 23:00
  Carly - Guest: Like she's she's obviously got a support network around her, which allows her to be um confident with that.
• 23:06
  Carly - Guest: And also it it's brave for be the first one that's that's kind of yeah out there and talking about it.
• 23:12
  Carly - Guest: And obviously, she takes being a role model really important.
• 23:14
  Carly - Guest: So I guess kind of bringing it back to kind of our level of the game and the different tiers in the game, it's about making sure you've got support within your club, making sure that they've got support at home and what what does that look like?
• 23:25
  Carly - Guest: And that could be an easy check-in, it could just be asking them how they are or how the day was.
• 23:30
  Carly - Guest: Um, I think obviously players that are going through the education system more now, um, females are being diagnosed at uni um and and bits like that.
• 23:37
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's you know, us upskilling as a society, us upskilling as a society of you know, how how do we look after people?
• 23:45
  Carly - Guest: Um, how do we accept people of diversity?
• 23:48
  Carly - Guest: It could could be could be of anything.
• 23:50
  Carly - Guest: And yeah, and I think that's what's really massive.
• 23:52
  Carly - Guest: The more role models that we get in the game, that kind of look different, that sound different, I think it it really inspires other people to kind of carry on within the game.
• 24:01
  Carly - Guest: And and I think that's what's really important, making sure we keep females in football.
• 24:05
  Meryem - Host: I mean, I I totally agree with that, and I'm a kind of advocate for that, and and particularly in the teams that I play in, um, that kind of team ethos is really valuable.
• 24:15
  Meryem - Host: And and for many neurodivergent individuals, that sense of belonging is so key.
• 24:21
  Meryem - Host: So, what you're saying is really valuable.
• 24:23
  Meryem - Host: I'm also aware that actually in the shadowy bits and in the difficult bits, we know that sometimes that doesn't always kind of work that way.
• 24:33
  Meryem - Host: So, what we what we do understand as well is that sometimes you can have different neurosyles that can clash.
• 24:40
  Meryem - Host: And you might have, like I'm thinking about when I was playing in a team, and we might have somebody who was really precise and analytical and could absorb information just like that.
• 24:55
  Meryem - Host: And and then you would have somebody perhaps like myself who may need to re to read something about tactics or strategies, uh, may need to practice something and see something visually, and may need to kind of repeat what we call repetition, would be something that would help somebody like myself who's dyslexic and suspected ADHD.
• 25:16
  Meryem - Host: So then I know that then that balancing, the kind of I've got one teammate who's kind of really irritated that they're having to be held back when there's somebody, another teammate who's actually needing a bit more support and care.
• 25:33
  Meryem - Host: So, how do you balance that when you've got so many things that you're balancing in a in a club, in a team?
• 25:39
  Carly - Guest: For me, a little bit is around authentically being yourself as a coach.
• 25:44
  Carly - Guest: So for me personally, I know that in a female game, females need to know why.
• 25:49
  Carly - Guest: Why are they doing something?
• 25:50
  Carly - Guest: So that's something that's embedded in my coaching.
• 25:53
  Carly - Guest: And even when I coached my my son's team and coach my son, I always told him why.
• 25:57
  Carly - Guest: I think boys, they don't need that motivation.
• 26:00
  Carly - Guest: They you you give them a ball, they're gonna go and do what what you've asked them to do.
• 26:03
  Carly - Guest: But normally, female players they they need that motivation, they need to know why they're doing something.
• 26:08
  Carly - Guest: That kind of inspires them to kind of give their their most.
• 26:11
  Carly - Guest: So I think being able to break that information down as to why you're doing things automatically chunks things, and that again is probably a transferable skill for myself, being a science teacher and real chunking that information so that it is absorbable.
• 26:24
  Carly - Guest: Um, I think showing it so when I do match prep, for example, it it has analysis on it, whereby it has moving counters, it has static counters.
• 26:32
  Carly - Guest: Um, we we go through it on a tactics board, so and then we go out and we do it on the pitch.
• 26:37
  Carly - Guest: So there's lots of opportunities, and then we send that match prep out as well.
• 26:42
  Carly - Guest: So players have an opportunity to read it in their own time, come back to us with questions.
• 26:46
  Carly - Guest: In match prep, we can see who who's got the concepts, who's not got the concepts.
• 26:50
  Carly - Guest: And there's myself and another technical coach, and we will go around and we will give the individual support that's needed in order for us to get the performance that we need.
• 26:58
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's about identifying, you know, the large part of the group might have it, but there might be key individuals in there that actually you need them to perform.
• 27:06
  Carly - Guest: So that's why, regardless, um, whether whether I have a player that's neurodivergent or not, I always make sure that I've checked and challenged, I've asked them questions.
• 27:15
  Carly - Guest: They might be the one that you purposely don't put on a demonstration, for example.
• 27:19
  Meryem - Host: Right.
• 27:20
  Carly - Guest: Or actually, as you're growing them as a person, you might put them on a demonstration because you know it's giving them, if you've, I guess, developed that psychological safety, they get it wrong and it's not a problem.
• 27:31
  Carly - Guest: Like they they learn you're not gonna shout at them, actually, like you know that this pattern is really relevant for them, actually putting them in it so they're visually doing it can be really important and powerful.
• 27:41
  Carly - Guest: It's whether they trust you as a coach.
• 27:43
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's hopefully what I kind of build is making sure I've built that rapport with players that they they trust me, they know the why, and and that I'm not gonna shout them just because they get it wrong.
• 27:53
  Carly - Guest: Actually, I'll just say, can we do it again?
• 27:55
  Carly - Guest: Right, and and kind of hold those standards and those expectations.
• 27:58
  Carly - Guest: So I think there's different ways that you can do it as a coach.
• 28:00
  Carly - Guest: And I think you know, you always try and demonstrate in two or three ways if you can.
• 28:04
  Carly - Guest: Like, there's no point, like at no point do you stand on a pitch and you talk about football.
• 28:08
  Carly - Guest: Like at all points you have to try and do it.
• 28:10
  Carly - Guest: So it's remembering that it is a practical support and uh sports, sorry, and and how do you make sure that you maximize your players and get the best out of them?
• 28:19
  Meryem - Host: Well, I really like what you're saying about the fact that you're aware of the fact or you're aware that there are different neurosyles on the pitch within the club, within the team, and that actually you're using different mediums to kind of maximize and work with all of the different individuals and their different neurostyles.
• 28:38
  Meryem - Host: So that is brilliant, uh, and how kind of resourceful that is, and also recognising building resilience, because again, one of the things that we know, um, neurodivergent girls say, uh, or or you know, neurodivergent individuals in general, they depending on their life experiences, will have had potentially some elements in their life where they've dealt with trauma or they've dealt with negative connotations or negative uh impression about themselves.
• 29:12
  Meryem - Host: And so building resilience has been will be key to enable them to build confidence.
• 29:20
  Meryem - Host: So what you're talking about is actually enabling them to build resilience and build confidence.
• 29:26
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think I think for me, I'll I'll always say, like, even when I was in academy football, I'd say to players, if you're engaging with it, you'll you'll be a better player by the end of the season.
• 29:35
  Carly - Guest: I'm not guaranteed that you know you'll necessarily have a contract, but actually you'll you'll be a better player by the end of the season.
• 29:41
  Carly - Guest: And that's hopefully what I bring into my coaching in Brentford women is that players are better people on and off the pitch.
• 29:47
  Carly - Guest: I'm very person-centered, so it's always people first, players second.
• 29:51
  Carly - Guest: Um, but it's how can I develop them as people?
• 29:53
  Carly - Guest: Can I check and challenge them?
• 29:55
  Carly - Guest: Can they check and challenge me to be better?
• 29:57
  Carly - Guest: And I try and give them a little bit of ownership and accountability, especially as we're moving into adult football around their individual development plans, and that's in four corners.
• 30:05
  Carly - Guest: So it's the technical, tactical, but actually the psych and the physical is just as important.
• 30:09
  Carly - Guest: So, how do we make sure we're developing them across kind of all of that that range as well as a social um range as well?
• 30:17
  Carly - Guest: So there's elements that you kind of develop in the player, and although they probably don't feel like they're developing as a person, they they very much are.
• 30:24
  Carly - Guest: So I think football is a fantastic vehicle for developing people, and it's a fantastic vehicle for bringing people together.
• 30:31
  Carly - Guest: And I I'm really proud last season of some players that said that they'd fallen back in love with football, like being at Brentford.
• 30:37
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's a fantastic kind of opportunity for to make sure that you're kind of doing things in the right way, you've built the right culture, the culture feels safe, they're able to learn, they're able to develop, they're able to kind of move on and and also kind of bring their families into the environment and their friends into the environment.
• 30:53
  Carly - Guest: And I think that together can be such a powerful thing if they've got the right support, um, whether they've got a diversity or or not.
• 31:01
  Carly - Guest: And I think that kind of unity, I I don't think you you ever find anything like your own team.
• 31:06
  Carly - Guest: Um so your own team against the rest of the world, like that's how it feels.
• 31:10
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's a fantastic opportunity to kind of develop people.
• 31:14
  Meryem - Host: It's a really beautiful sentiment, actually, that you're not just building football players, you're building human beings to be the best version of themselves.
• 31:23
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think like one of Brentford's big ambitions is to be the best um football club for female players and it have a real female health lens.
• 31:33
  Carly - Guest: Um, so I think like that that kind of links in because being such a community club, I think that's so important in terms of engaging community, people having inspirational role models, um, and and obviously we we have a big diversity, I guess, background within that area.
• 31:50
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's a real opportunity to kind of go out there and showcase what we're doing, build an academy, hopefully have sustainable players through it.
• 31:58
  Carly - Guest: Um, and there's no doubt within that academy there will likely be some diversity that hopefully we can help and support with our with our community, our community support and you know everything that we do in order to kind of you know build build people, build people who are lifelong Brentford fans and kind of they they obviously stay in football.
• 32:15
  Carly - Guest: And I I think that's important, like even if you do it as a grassroots for the rest of your life.
• 32:20
  Carly - Guest: I think such an important thing, you make so many friends.
• 32:23
  Carly - Guest: Um, you can build your support network through that.
• 32:25
  Carly - Guest: That can be your safety, that could be your outlet if you've had a frustrating day at work.
• 32:29
  Carly - Guest: So I think it can be a real powerful thing, football.
• 32:33
  Meryem - Host: Uh I think it is a real powerful thing.
• 32:35
  Meryem - Host: I mean, I can I think back to my own journey, and actually I was it was at a very precarious time in my life.
• 32:42
  Meryem - Host: And the moment I stepped foot in the football club that I had stepped foot in, it changed my life dramatically and it created a sense of community that I'd never felt anywhere else.
• 32:53
  Meryem - Host: And so I totally can relate and I can resonate from that from a personal perspective, and I often hear from people or clients I'm working with how important belonging and community is.
• 33:06
  Meryem - Host: So, what you're building at Brentford, and that they're lucky to have you as well, it is brilliant.
• 33:13
  Meryem - Host: What I want to say is congratulations on being awarded a coaching and management award by football blacklist.
• 33:22
  Carly - Guest: How does that feel?
• 33:23
  Carly - Guest: It's amazing.
• 33:24
  Carly - Guest: Like to be recognised by the football blacklist is is massive.
• 33:28
  Carly - Guest: And I think for for myself, uh an ethnic minority, I've got I guess background, I think it's really important for for people like myself to be recognized within the game, and obviously as a female coach as well.
• 33:39
  Carly - Guest: So hopefully I kind of represent kind of a lot of that kind of I guess minority group.
• 33:45
  Carly - Guest: Um, and and hopefully it can inspire others.
• 33:48
  Carly - Guest: It's a real important, important night in the in the football calendar, and you know, to to be awarded twice is is a fantastic opportunity.
• 33:58
  Carly - Guest: So, yeah, I'm really thankful to the football blacklist, and you know, it's it's helped me in my career as well.
• 34:04
  Meryem - Host: Um, yes, I saw that it was a second successive award.
• 34:07
  Meryem - Host: So, I mean, that's even an even bigger achievement.
• 34:10
  Meryem - Host: And you've kind of anticipated a bit my next question around how important it is for young girls to see diversity being modelled in the way that you're modelling it, and and what's that like for you if you think about the fact that there may be another young girl from a minority ethnic group that sees you and it and feels inspired?
• 34:32
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think for me growing up, I don't think there was many female role models, um, especially from a diverse background.
• 34:39
  Carly - Guest: So for me, I I kind of know what that that kind of feels like.
• 34:42
  Carly - Guest: I obviously, you know, we we had the lights of Hope Powell and we had Rachel Yankee and we had Anita Rasanti and Alex Scott, for example, and and a couple of others as well.
• 34:51
  Carly - Guest: And I think for me growing up, my my hero is Ian Wright.
• 34:54
  Carly - Guest: Um and I think it's really important to have those different um different role models out there to inspire the next generation.
• 35:03
  Carly - Guest: I think it's really important to acknowledge that the football blacklist have also given me opportunities.
• 35:07
  Carly - Guest: So when on Sky Um Sky Sports with Leon Mann, and he's been a fantastic supporter, and I've been out to the MLS um and and done some programs out there and some talent ID, and you know, those opportunities are out there, but it's about getting your name out there, getting recognized, also being inspired, and you know, people like myself, hopefully giving back time and to to people like me who want to be inspired.
• 35:31
  Carly - Guest: So I think that's really important from a coach's lens.
• 35:34
  Carly - Guest: And then obviously you have players, um, you you have increasing numbers of diversity coming through our academies, and uh, and what does that what does that kind of look like?
• 35:42
  Carly - Guest: The more we break down barriers, the more diverse our academies become and our grassroots become.
• 35:47
  Carly - Guest: So I think that's really important in terms of having coaches like myself, having female coaches in the female game, what that looks like, having female coaches in the male game.
• 35:57
  Carly - Guest: I've I've coached at the likes of Leighton Orient as well, Late and Orient Academy as as well as my son, and you know, the way I deliver information is different.
• 36:05
  Carly - Guest: And it's embracing that, it's being authentically yourself and and embracing that you are different and you have different life experiences that you can bring and value that you can bring.
• 36:14
  Carly - Guest: And I think as a female coach, it can be quite tough and it can be quite lonely.
• 36:18
  Carly - Guest: So I think you know, for if players can see you as well, I think that's important for you know, when they're doing dual careers or when they're deciding what they want to do, you know, it might be they want to be an S and C, they might want to be a physio, but actually they need those role role models out there that they can see doing very similar things.
• 36:35
  Carly - Guest: But I think it's that relatable piece.
• 36:37
  Carly - Guest: Have they got someone they can relate to?
• 36:38
  Carly - Guest: And that might not necessarily be someone that's the same ethnic minority, it might be just someone that they've managed to engage with and and someone that's inspired them.
• 36:47
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's important to acknowledge allies as much as it is anything else.
• 36:51
  Meryem - Host: Absolutely, I agree.
• 36:52
  Meryem - Host: And I I don't think any group on its own uh can kind of really forge forward in life.
• 36:58
  Meryem - Host: We all need each other, and actually, we all need to be each other's allies and support.
• 37:02
  Meryem - Host: And I guess I'm just thinking of perhaps say there may be uh a young girl from a from a minority ethnic background who's also neurodivergent and feeling like there may be it may feel like there are too many obstacles or challenges in the way, or how how would you is there anything you would say to her or suggest to them in a way in terms of progressing forward and trying to break down some of those challenges and barriers?
• 37:34
  Carly - Guest: Yeah, I think it's always about your your love of the game, and I think me it's really important to find the environment that works for you.
• 37:41
  Carly - Guest: Um, that doesn't mean just because one environment isn't right, there isn't another environment that is right.
• 37:46
  Carly - Guest: Can you use your resources or can you use your safe people, your support network to find that right environment for you?
• 37:52
  Carly - Guest: And I think that's always important.
• 37:54
  Carly - Guest: I've I've always said to my kids over the years, if you're happy, you're going to develop.
• 37:58
  Carly - Guest: So actually, it's the same for neurodivergent um players, whether it's female or male, find that right environment and and don't give up the love of your game, is that is what I would say.
• 38:08
  Carly - Guest: And to coaches out there, I would also say make sure that you're kind of engaging with opportunities of CPD and kind of learning and opening in your mind.
• 38:16
  Carly - Guest: And I guess a big part of me and maybe why I'm the coach I am and why culture and environment is so important to me is because I always want to learn and grow.
• 38:24
  Carly - Guest: I always want to learn and grow, I always want to be inclusive.
• 38:26
  Carly - Guest: How do I have the best footballers regardless of backgrounds?
• 38:30
  Carly - Guest: Um, and you know that that might mean breaking barriers, that might mean doing things being a first, but actually that that's not such a bad thing.
• 38:38
  Carly - Guest: Like sometimes it is good to be a role model, it's good to walk the path that no one else has has done.
• 38:44
  Carly - Guest: So I think for me it's really kind of that focus on football and what what does football mean for you and finding that right environment for you?
• 38:51
  Meryem - Host: Yeah.
• 38:52
  Meryem - Host: So women's coaching pathways are still far from equal, even though there's a lot of work towards it being equal, and there's a it's it's more of an equal playing field now than it has been.
• 39:04
  Meryem - Host: But barriers still exist.
• 39:07
  Meryem - Host: What barriers have you personally experienced and had to push through?
• 39:13
  Carly - Guest: And what what kept you going when it was really tough?
• 39:16
  Carly - Guest: For me, I think big barriers that I've probably faced is around kind of access to courses.
• 39:22
  Carly - Guest: Um and I think in terms of there's different criteria in order to get on the courses, whether you're in the male game or the female game.
• 39:29
  Carly - Guest: And I think that that can be a big barrier when you're a female coach, a lone female coach, trying to go against those obstacles time after time, and maybe that you haven't seen anyone recently kind of go through those pathways.
• 39:42
  Carly - Guest: I think Hope Powell was already an A-licensed, a pro-licensed coach, so I couldn't see the pathway in the journey that she'd been on, like it was already a lived experience.
• 39:50
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's it's kind of really important in terms of kind of recognizing kind of what your barriers are, and I think there's more and more support in the FA.
• 39:57
  Carly - Guest: I've got some some fantastic mentors in terms of Mo Marley and Lois Fiddler, and over the years I've had Sharon Muxworthy and Butch really support me on my journey and pushing me forwards, and then there's been people off the pitch like Ed Cope and Um making and Keith Daniels that's made sure in terms of bits around kind of my presentation skills and my media skills, and and it's having those allies in football that can be really, really key, but it's finding them.
• 40:25
  Carly - Guest: So I think a big thing can also for a female um coach is normally that there isn't much money in in the roles.
• 40:32
  Carly - Guest: Um so for me, obviously, I was a full-time radiographer and I was a full-time teacher whilst doing some of my coaching badges.
• 40:39
  Carly - Guest: Um, a lot of my coaching badges I've also paid for myself.
• 40:42
  Carly - Guest: So I know increasingly there are bursaries out there that that do help coaches like myself, but I've also been determined enough to pay for them because it's things that I've really wanted to do.
• 40:52
  Carly - Guest: Um, but they're not cheap.
• 40:54
  Carly - Guest: So actually, in terms of if you're not in a financial position, it's have you got the opportunities to apply for those bursaries?
• 41:00
  Carly - Guest: Are you eligible for those bursaries to help and support you?
• 41:03
  Carly - Guest: And and I think as a female in the game, you always feel like you need a coaching badge higher than a male opposition for that job.
• 41:11
  Carly - Guest: Um, and and a little bit of that is is internal in in us as as females, um, but I think it is kind of like the culture that we've kind of been brought up in.
• 41:20
  Carly - Guest: And then I think kind of lastly for me is probably around those opportunities.
• 41:25
  Carly - Guest: And I think sometimes in my career I was underestimated in terms of what I could do because I was just a female coach, or I was a female coach in the male game, and you know, that you know, I was stuck with the younger age groups.
• 41:36
  Carly - Guest: Actually, that's that's not what I wanted to do, that's not how I wanted to push forward.
• 41:40
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's about you know, you've got to stick true to your to your dreams and your goals, I think, but it's really finding those those people around you that can kind of help you on that journey.
• 41:50
  Meryem - Host: Yeah.
• 41:50
  Meryem - Host: One of the things that you were saying, um, about that some of the challenges and obstacles you've gone through is about finding your own kind of drive and passion and trying to push through some of the challenges that come up for you and and access some pathways and um opportunities.
• 42:09
  Meryem - Host: And I'm actually thinking of very grassroots, I'm thinking of like a young girl say from an ethnic background whose parents don't understand the importance of sport.
• 42:25
  Meryem - Host: And I and I'm thinking of this in a way it there's a reflection on my own journey.
• 42:31
  Meryem - Host: When I was trying to play sport, not even football, but sport, my family was very much like girls don't do sport, and yet it was a huge part of me managing my neurodivergence.
• 42:46
  Meryem - Host: I didn't know it then, but but energy, the outlet of energy was so important.
• 42:52
  Meryem - Host: And the aspect of sport and being in community and friendships and was really important.
• 42:59
  Meryem - Host: But one of the things that I recognised was that my family was it was really hard to actually persuade them to allow me to play sport.
• 43:10
  Meryem - Host: And so I wonder how much of your and and I'm thinking about neurodivergent young people as well, who may have some people, some parents may be overprotective.
• 43:22
  Meryem - Host: So I'm thinking about how do you manage kind of or break the barrier of parents?
• 43:28
  Meryem - Host: Um at grassroots level, I guess I'm talking about because at your club they would have already arrived.
• 43:35
  Meryem - Host: Yeah, but perhaps a couple of scenes behind.
• 43:38
  Carly - Guest: Yeah.
• 43:39
  Carly - Guest: I think for me, I guess the real important thing is is that culture piece is inviting families in so they can see they can they can see the enjoyment from those players and what sport gives to them.
• 43:50
  Carly - Guest: And I think like sometimes obviously if they're in the school environment, you you as a parent don't get to go, so you don't get to see how much it it kind of means to them.
• 43:58
  Carly - Guest: And I think a little bit obviously the the the player needs to kind of you know fight their corner a little a little bit but I think also kind of you know there's there's campaigns and you know summer camps and bits like that that can really kind of show the powerful use of of that and I think uh like another barrier in terms of is is that role model piece and I've often been on courses where I've been the only female um let alone being the only female of diversity let alone be the only the only person of diversity so yeah I think it's it's kind of making sure that we're diversifying our workforce that can inspire and sometimes you know uh a coach from a diverse background could potentially um I I guess interact with those parents and kind of inspire those parents or is it a cultural piece um and and you know those coaches might have you know a a community link especially if it's a grassroots team like they they might go to you know the same kind of social clubs or they may go to Tesco's and bump into each other all the time so it it's about spreading the good word and I think Brentford's really good at that like in terms of I think we engage over 3,000 um girls in in community football in the grassroots level of football and I think brilliant that can be so powerful I think to kind of get the word out and I think when we had our game at the GTEch we had like a fan engagement zone and parents could come along and and and they could see what football is and how happy it makes their their kids.
• 45:20
  Carly - Guest: So I think it's making sure that you have those those community based um participant programs I think where you can really kind of inspire the next generation coming through.
• 45:30
  Meryem - Host: Really good point.
• 45:31
  Meryem - Host: If you could change one structural thing in the women and girls game that would make a big difference tomorrow particularly that would involve or bring in more neurodivergent young girls what would it be?
• 45:46
  Carly - Guest: I think it would be closer engagement between between different programs.
• 45:49
  Carly - Guest: I think a lot of the time we have good school programs and we have good Saturday or Sunday programs but actually do they talk to each other and can we have different levels?
• 45:58
  Carly - Guest: So is there a grassroots that just about having fun?
• 46:00
  Carly - Guest: Is there a slightly more advanced one?
• 46:03
  Carly - Guest: Is there a slightly more advanced one and then into elite so it's making sure that you kind of have the pyramids for those players to go through so I think it's really important that a player never feels like you know they're not they're not going to be a great footballer so they don't take up football.
• 46:18
  Carly - Guest: So I think for me it would be the the links between the two I think it is really important.
• 46:23
  Carly - Guest: I think obviously kind of your holistic support around it can be really important.
• 46:28
  Carly - Guest: So has every club got a club welfare officer that that could potentially help or you know if they can't help with neurodivergent players actually do they know where to signpost them and and I think that could be really important in terms of just making sure yeah for me number one players stay in football number two that players grassroots level and beyond have support networks that keep them in football keep them engaging because I think sport can be such a fantastic thing for mental health and and whether you've got a diversity or not I think it can be such an important kind of way of life and you know socializing all those all those key skills I think that you can learn from football I think you can then get out in life and using your life experience so yeah I think kind of making sure people stay engaged would would be massive for me and then also spotlighting I guess finally spotlighting role models um so female role models um we we've done it with our kit launch making sure that you know our community is represented with our players um and I think that can be so so important um yes it means they might get a bit bit more attention when they're walking down the road but that could be fantastic for inspiring the the next generation of football players and my players also go into the community um as well and they they go and give out the you know the monthly awards and talk to players and I think head coaches like me that see the benefits of everything you can do off pitch and everything you can do into within the the club and those allies within the club like for me I think that the women's team can be integrated so well in some clubs like how do you make sure that you get that fantastic message out there and is it through social media or is it word of mouth and we've had a lot of good feedback through word of mouth at the moment we we forget about that.
• 48:16
  Carly - Guest: Yeah we we forget that you don't always have to pick up phone or bits like that.
• 48:19
  Carly - Guest: So or going social media or exactly so it it can be so important around making sure that that that cultural piece that you're building that kind of builds through from you know the moment the moment players pick up a ball um to kind of the moment they're finishing their career and they're moving on to a dual career and it's keeping those ones at the moment that's really key for me keeping them in football because they've had lived experiences they've had challenges they've had barriers actually they're the ones who can help the next generation coming through but us as a club can we help them with their next steps do they want to work in media or actually do they want to work in marketing do they want to work in HR?
• 48:54
  Carly - Guest: Do they want to coach there's so many different avenues in female football so I think there's there's a lot we can change there's a lot we can always go after but I I think it's about kind of staying true to ourselves and I think the England women team always talk about the women's game being very different.
• 49:10
  Meryem - Host: I think we authentically need to keep it different but how do we make sure that we're we're keeping those players in it to kind of affect it for the good absolutely it's kind of like enabling those younger players to stand on the the shoulders of the giants of the game from the previous generation in a way so that they can then repeat that lived experience and then be the person that somebody else will stand on the shoulder of giants of so and I think it's also them being brave enough to walk new pathways.
• 49:39
  Carly - Guest: Yeah um and and I think like we saw that with the Euros yes we've now won it twice but we had to do it once first absolutely and and we're still waiting for the World Cup.
• 49:47
  Carly - Guest: So I think it it's really important that you know we we have these strong role models that that believe and you know that have that drive to kind of walk new pathways and that that could just be starting a new program in a community.
• 49:59
  Carly - Guest: It doesn't it doesn't need to be a World Cup but actually you know have we noticed that there's a gap in football a bit like we did in Basildon there was a gap in football can we make sure that we're creating programs and creating safe environments for those players yeah yeah absolutely kind of creating that community that that community cohesion and then that community expansion that can kind of do the work for itself through that word of mouth that you mentioned.
• 50:23
  Carly - Guest: Yeah exactly so I guess kind of as a final question
• 50:29
  Speaker: what would you say to a young woman a young neurodivergent woman who sees football as a career but can't see themselves getting to that place I think again I think it's about finding the right environment for them I think too often we probably try and skip steps and try and go to like the ultimate goal rather than actually you know I think player development is is huge.
• 50:52
  Speaker: So I think it's like first of all when they're young it's about you know understanding themselves understanding their diagnosis understanding their triggers their traits what what happens when they're in what environment what happens when they're under a stressor or some pressure and and kind of also finding the coach that kind of works for them.
• 51:09
  Speaker: So I think a big thing for me is finding the culture and environment that works for you.
• 51:13
  Speaker: Yeah and I think um also the support network around them keep keep those dreams alive um like my myself within the game will will do that but actually when you're at home you know when they're having a tough day can you encourage can you support them could you help them and take them to football and and can you stand by the side of the pitch and you know like really support them on so I think it's I think a key thing is around that support network.
• 51:36
  Speaker: The key thing is you know you've got to keep believing you've got to keep dreaming um and I think that's that's a great thing that football gives you and you know you're normally able to play in three or four four environments at one time.
• 51:47
  Speaker: So yeah I think the the big thing for me is you know find a role model find someone that inspires you find someone who's walked different pathways or similar pathways to you and are there different options for you to take and and and ultimately be brave um and I think if you're brave and you're authentically you always stand a chance of of you know achieving your dream your dreams and you know I'd never want anyone to walk away from their dream because they've got a barrier actually you know find those allies that can help you break down those barriers you don't have to do them on your own.
• 52:18
  Meryem - Host: I love that find your allies to help you break down those barriers you don't have to do it on your own.
• 52:23
  Meryem - Host: Carly Williams thank you so much for your time thank you for being on the Neurodivergent lens and we wish you and the club every success moving forward.
• 52:31
  Meryem - Host: Thank you very much for having me.
• 52:33
  Meryem - Host: Thank you for joining us today I hope that you will join us next time as we delve further into more conversations around neurodivergence.
• 52:41
  Meryem - Host: And if you liked what you heard then subscribe and let's keep the conversation going on neurodivergence