Latest / #Divorce: Support before, during and after with Sarah-Jane / Season 4 episode 5 Reinventing Your Life and Business After Divorce — With Business Strategist Sandra

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Season 4 episode 5 Reinventing Your Life and Business After Divorce — With Business Strategist Sandra · #Divorce: Support before, during and after with Sarah-Jane

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome back to our podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm Sarah Jane Taster, family mediator and French family
• 0:07
  lawyer based in the UK and I'm joined by my Co host Audrey
• 0:11
  Zitun, life and relationship coach based in London.
• 0:16
  Together we explore everything connected to relationships,
• 0:19
  parenting and well-being. Our aim is to support you
• 0:23
  through every stage of your personal journey, whether you're
• 0:27
  facing separation or divorce, navigating Co parenting, or
• 0:31
  simply seeking A healthier and more fulfilling life.
• 0:35
  Through each episode, we blend legal insights, coaching tools
• 0:39
  and personal experience to offer you thoughtful guidance,
• 0:43
  practical advice, and compassionate support.
• 0:47
  We also invite inspiring guests who share their own stories and
• 0:52
  expertise, hoping to give you clarity, strength, and
• 0:55
  confidence to move forward. If you'd like to learn more
• 0:59
  about our work outside the podcast, you'll find all the
• 1:03
  links in the episode notes. Now, let's dive into today's
• 1:08
  topic. Today, we're exploring what it
• 1:14
  means to start again, not just in life, but also in business.
• 1:19
  Joining me is Sandra Phillipson, an innovative marketing and
• 1:25
  business strategist with over 25 years of experience shaping some
• 1:29
  of EU KS biggest brands from Halifax to Lloyds.
• 1:34
  She now works with SMEs, helping entrepreneurs, especially those
• 1:39
  at a crossroads, gain clarity, define their ambition and build
• 1:44
  brands rooted in purpose and value.
• 1:47
  Sandra is known for bringing fresh perspective, commercial
• 1:51
  strategy, and tangible growth. She doesn't just talk about
• 1:56
  business, she ignites it. Whether someone is launching
• 2:00
  after a divorce, rediscovering their identity, or daring to
• 2:04
  dream again, she helps turns uncertainty into opportunity and
• 2:09
  ideas into action. So today we'll be talking about
• 2:13
  reinvention, how to align personal values with a business
• 2:18
  vision, how to find clarity when life feels scattered, and why
• 2:22
  it's never too late to start something new.
• 2:26
  If you ever thought could I build something of my own, this
• 2:30
  is the episode for you. Sandra, thank you for being here
• 2:34
  today. Can you start by telling us a
• 2:38
  little bit about yourself? Thank you for the wonderful
• 2:42
  introduction. I've worked corporately for over
• 2:44
  25 years, and following a divorce five years ago, I had
• 2:49
  the opportunity to leave an organization I'd been with for
• 2:51
  22 years. Now I'm helping smaller
• 2:55
  businesses create their own path for bringing big business
• 2:59
  thinking into smaller businesses.
• 3:02
  Many people consider starting a new business after divorce.
• 3:06
  What advice do you give someone standing at a crossroad, unsure
• 3:11
  but curious about becoming their own boss?
• 3:15
  The main thing is making sure you're in a robust place because
• 3:19
  I'm not trying to say that starting a business is the
• 3:22
  answer to everybody following divorce.
• 3:24
  But at the same time, it can create a brilliant new journey
• 3:29
  and pathway and good distraction from some of the deep seated
• 3:33
  emotional things that you've happened with you and your
• 3:36
  divorce. The first bit of advice I would
• 3:39
  really give is make sure you have enough time and you have
• 3:43
  enough emotional energy to start a business.
• 3:47
  If you feel that maybe you're not quite ready to embark on
• 3:51
  that journey, you can spend time just starting to investigate the
• 3:55
  ideas and exploring the ideas. Because when you start a
• 3:59
  business, the original idea you often come up with will be very
• 4:03
  different to the business that you actually end up launching
• 4:06
  and running. A lot of the groundwork could be
• 4:08
  done until you are emotionally ready and have the time to
• 4:13
  commit to it. Often people want to rush into
• 4:17
  things without realizing they can't do it at that moment in
• 4:22
  time. When you're feeling quite
• 4:24
  vulnerable after divorce, we're looking for things to move us
• 4:28
  away from the grief, the emotional pain we may have
• 4:33
  experienced, I think. You've got to.
• 4:35
  Be really careful that you don't use starting a business for the
• 4:40
  wrong reasons. When people divorce, they're
• 4:43
  often forced to rethink their values.
• 4:46
  How do you link those personal values with defining a business
• 4:52
  brand and ambition? I think there's loads of
• 4:55
  parallels in this space. I'm a massive believer in the
• 4:59
  Steve Jobs thinking on this with which is about connecting the
• 5:03
  dots and so people when they start a business, as well as
• 5:08
  people when they're at a different crossroads in their
• 5:10
  life, it's really important to step back.
• 5:13
  The way I work with people, I use a lot of visualisation and
• 5:16
  different lateral thinking exercises to get people out of
• 5:20
  their normal thinking patterns. Sometimes when you're having a
• 5:24
  tough time, you need someone to help you distort and upset them.
• 5:29
  Original thinking patterns to help you see the the bigger
• 5:33
  opportunities and options that are out there, which eventually
• 5:36
  will help you get a bit more clarity on what your values are,
• 5:41
  but also what your ambition is from that point onwards.
• 5:47
  OK, so once. We've understood that you need
• 5:53
  to really shape and start afresh, even with your values.
• 6:00
  How can someone who feels overwhelmed begin to find the
• 6:06
  clarity in the focus you were talking about?
• 6:10
  I think it takes time. This would never be a magic
• 6:14
  answer and there's lots of counselling and of a different
• 6:16
  support for people when they go through divorce.
• 6:20
  But what it really is about is a journey and we're all on a
• 6:23
  journey. You know, for me, starting a new
• 6:26
  business could be a catalyst for a new journey.
• 6:29
  When you go from being employed to being self-employed, you
• 6:33
  discover a lot about yourself. You discover the people you like
• 6:37
  working with. You discover the things that
• 6:40
  film your cup. You discover what you like doing
• 6:44
  in terms of work and in life. You meet lots of new different
• 6:47
  people, which is always really helpful, whether that's, you
• 6:51
  know, there's so many people I meet networking who I possibly
• 6:55
  will never do business with, but who or advocates of what I do or
• 7:00
  who I enjoy hatching up with. And it's that building of a
• 7:04
  network, the building of friendships, that can be really
• 7:07
  quite key as well. Yeah, that's so important.
• 7:12
  So you have worked with major brands and now you're working
• 7:16
  with SMEs. What lessons from big businesses
• 7:20
  trap strategies can individuals apply when launching a small
• 7:26
  business after a life change? One of my big thing is taking my
• 7:32
  corporate complex strategy experience and simplifying it
• 7:37
  down. Strategy is this ubiquitous turn
• 7:40
  that people use all the time. We have a coping strategy.
• 7:44
  We have a warfare strategy. There is so many uses of the
• 7:48
  term and really what I'm about is simplifying that.
• 7:52
  I have a bit of a model that I use which I call understand,
• 7:57
  think, decide, which is really what the crux of strategy is all
• 8:00
  about. Having a start point,
• 8:03
  understanding the context of the environment you're working in,
• 8:07
  understanding the context of all the businesses in that area,
• 8:10
  understanding your customers, and then just thinking about all
• 8:14
  that different options and opportunities.
• 8:16
  Strategy is all about making informed decisions.
• 8:19
  That's what I bring, moving people from tactical to a more
• 8:24
  strategic viewpoint by making it simple for.
• 8:29
  Them all that experience you've gained, you know what works,
• 8:33
  what doesn't work, and how to adapt.
• 8:36
  It to. The smaller entities, it's
• 8:40
  invariable. Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:43
  When I first moved from banking, I did have this moment.
• 8:47
  My parents had businesses, my ex-husband had a business as a
• 8:51
  job to marketing. You learn a lot about different
• 8:53
  businesses. Anyway, at that point I was like
• 8:56
  what if all I can do is banking? And so actually what you realize
• 9:01
  is that your skills are so transferable and I think you
• 9:04
  know, this is about skills attributes of anybody is that
• 9:08
  then when you actually go and speak to other people and help
• 9:12
  other people is quite validating.
• 9:14
  The feedback I've had has been fabulous.
• 9:16
  Thinking about a brand, thinking about a pricing strategy,
• 9:20
  creating simple frameworks to help make decisions, Smaller
• 9:25
  businesses as a sounding board and bigger businesses that want
• 9:29
  to get more serious about their marketing at the brand.
• 9:33
  So you describe yourself as a business catalyst.
• 9:37
  What does it mean in practice for someone trying to rebuild
• 9:40
  their professional life after divorce?
• 9:44
  I think it's all about getting a fresh perspective and I'm a big
• 9:48
  believer in the growth mindset that is enabling yourself to
• 9:54
  think differently about situations.
• 9:56
  And that's what I tried to do with people.
• 9:58
  I tried to not because I think I lost a lot of time in business.
• 10:03
  People just look and think quite, they just look very
• 10:09
  closely to what they're doing or the competitors.
• 10:12
  If you want to create a strategy that's really different, you
• 10:16
  need to think wider. And so it's just about thinking
• 10:20
  differently. I love things like Airbnb that
• 10:23
  went in and reinvented that category.
• 10:25
  What they did is still the same as what holiday let's were doing
• 10:30
  15 years ago. They are connecting people with
• 10:33
  a rental holiday property, but the emotional connection or they
• 10:37
  reinvented it to make it a home from home, something that
• 10:42
  resonated with people. The gross of that company as a
• 10:45
  result was significant. I love the Lush brand as well.
• 10:48
  That's the other brand that I really, really sell, Bath bonds,
• 10:51
  but they reinvented it. They created it like a green
• 10:54
  gross and you go in there, there's a board.
• 10:57
  The touch, the smell, the experience really evokes some
• 11:02
  deep emotional things. As a catalyst, that's what I
• 11:05
  like to do. I like to take a situation and
• 11:07
  flip it on its head and think about it differently.
• 11:11
  I think that's helpful in business and life.
• 11:15
  And it's interesting because what I hear from you in all the
• 11:19
  questions I've asked is really to be able to think differently.
• 11:25
  And that's what you enable. And you make people realise that
• 11:29
  although they want to change that they're not always ready to
• 11:33
  change their values, their habits.
• 11:35
  And what you bring with the Catalyst idea is just change.
• 11:41
  For me, life's a big journey of embracing change and we've all
• 11:46
  had them points where we get forced to do.
• 11:49
  Sometimes you get made redundant and you get forced to make a
• 11:55
  change and actually that change, most often than not, it's
• 12:01
  something that's a really positive thing in your life.
• 12:04
  I remember getting made redundant many years ago and at
• 12:07
  the time it was a bit of a shock. 2 weeks later I got on a
• 12:10
  plane and I went to Japan. It created an opportunity for me
• 12:14
  to go and travel around the world, which is one of the
• 12:16
  things I wanted to do. The fact I was stuck in a job
• 12:19
  and progressing my career and then boom, divorce is a bit like
• 12:23
  that as well, isn't it? You've got your family, your
• 12:25
  house, your kids, and you're dwindling along and then boom,
• 12:29
  everything changes. It's good to have people around
• 12:33
  you who can give you that perspective, who can help you
• 12:36
  go, do you know what? This is an opportunity.
• 12:38
  I'm a great believer in this thing called intelligent naivety
• 12:42
  way. And you look at a situation and
• 12:45
  ask enabling questions. You know, if people say, oh,
• 12:49
  that can't be done, you go, but why can't it be done?
• 12:52
  And have you thought about it this way?
• 12:54
  And that's when you really Dr. innovation and get positive
• 12:57
  growth. That's when the magic often
• 12:59
  happens. People.
• 13:00
  Deceive things differently and it only for business all.
• 13:04
  So you've helped SMEs discover new commercial ideas to drive
• 13:09
  growth. Could you share an example of a
• 13:12
  shift in perspective which created a breakthrough?
• 13:16
  Yeah, absolutely. It's one of my biggest moments
• 13:19
  in my career actually. I moved roles and I moved to
• 13:23
  head up the MPD team in Save It. And at the time savings was all
• 13:28
  about rates. We were in a low rate
• 13:30
  environment. I think it was back in 2009, the
• 13:33
  banking crisis had kicked in. The base rate was an all time
• 13:36
  low and it was a really tough time.
• 13:39
  And everyone said to me, I don't try to replicate Premium Bonds.
• 13:42
  People have tried to do it so many times in the past and I
• 13:47
  actually just thought about it differently.
• 13:49
  What I did was create a prize draw, which meant that it wasn't
• 13:52
  gambling, it wasn't illegal, it wasn't a criminal offence
• 13:55
  because that was all the concerns of the ban.
• 13:57
  We moved it into, well actually you could just do it as a
• 14:02
  minimum balance and you create a prize draw and it took a lot of
• 14:07
  effort to get that across really.
• 14:11
  You know, the group board to think that bank was being
• 14:14
  frivolous and bank was, you know, giving out cash.
• 14:19
  And but we proved that with behavioural economics, which is
• 14:23
  something I'm a bit big advocate of, that people weren't just
• 14:27
  bothered about the rate, which everyone thought was the case
• 14:30
  with savings. They were bothered about that
• 14:32
  opportunity to win and it was that thriller drove them to put
• 14:36
  their savings with us. It was the biggest driver of non
• 14:39
  rate growth the bank had ever had and it is still present
• 14:42
  today. That's about 15 years later now.
• 14:47
  Going back to divorce, so how do you help Clyde, if you have any
• 14:52
  who going through divorce and then decide to set up a
• 14:55
  business, how do you help them refrain challenges,
• 14:58
  opportunities, though it goes back to this idea of change and
• 15:02
  seeing things differently, I guess.
• 15:05
  For me it's about deep reflection and that's part of
• 15:09
  the visualisation stuff I do. What I call it is sometimes
• 15:12
  about unpeeling the onion, really looking at the cause of
• 15:16
  what's going on. But also one of the things I
• 15:19
  believe is that for years I remember in a big corporate you
• 15:24
  have a lot of development meetings and you get a
• 15:27
  development plan. That development plan always
• 15:29
  used to be about what you're not as good at.
• 15:31
  So on my development plan, I'd have advanced Excel skills
• 15:35
  because I'm very numerical. If you ask me to do some
• 15:37
  programming or advance analytical stuff, that wasn't my
• 15:41
  bag and there was lots of people around me doing that.
• 15:44
  But I always it made you focus on the negative.
• 15:47
  It would look at the things that maybe you're not as good at.
• 15:50
  A Really good way to think about this is to flip that on its head
• 15:54
  and think about all the things that you are really good at and
• 15:57
  actually focus on nurturing and developing them as opposed to
• 16:01
  going, I'm not very good at this bit.
• 16:03
  And that's when you start to develop and realise what you're
• 16:06
  really good at, and that can be really good for confidence and
• 16:10
  for finding jobs and opportunities or businesses that
• 16:15
  play to their strengths. That's so important because most
• 16:18
  of people going through a Devol will lose confidence and think
• 16:24
  they're not able to do anything, especially if they've been in a
• 16:28
  couple for a very long time. Suddenly being alone, they're
• 16:34
  difficult for them, it's. A bit scary, and they can often
• 16:37
  be rejection. We've all got our individual
• 16:39
  stories of what happens in our divorce, and there will be a
• 16:43
  sense of rejection, of not feeling good enough.
• 16:46
  It's important for people to rebuild that, to make sure that
• 16:49
  they are moving on and living their best lives for them and
• 16:52
  for their kids. Do you have any practical tools,
• 16:56
  visualisation, strategic framework planning that you
• 17:00
  find? Powerful.
• 17:03
  To help people move from uncertainty to.
• 17:07
  Action, it's a combination of all these tools and we're all
• 17:11
  different individuals, businesses are all different.
• 17:15
  It depends on that actual person and that business.
• 17:19
  In terms of the strategies frameworks, I'll often create
• 17:23
  bespoke stuff to help people, you know, effort versus reward,
• 17:27
  trying to bring them to help them decide about stuff.
• 17:31
  I do like to use this framework where understand things decide
• 17:35
  it makes it simple and palatable for them.
• 17:40
  Yeah, because it makes it easier for them to.
• 17:45
  Visualize, I guess absolutely. I like to use a lot of colours
• 17:49
  and a lot of like big A5 sheets to, to, you know, create
• 17:54
  colourful representations of what we talk about.
• 17:57
  And I think that is always a powerful way to think about it.
• 18:00
  And I also like to take people out of their normal working
• 18:03
  environment. So I'll go to an art gallery,
• 18:06
  I'll go out in the malls walking.
• 18:09
  I've joked about using my campervan but I'm yet to do.
• 18:11
  I think that's important. Take people out.
• 18:13
  Context. That's when it's really good.
• 18:16
  You can just spend 3 hours at your desk trying to figure
• 18:19
  something out. You go for a walk and ping,
• 18:21
  that's when it happens. Absolutely.
• 18:24
  Some people say, oh, it's too late for me to start again.
• 18:29
  How do you respond to that? Being a catalyst that obviously
• 18:34
  I think it's never too late to start and I think I think life
• 18:40
  changes can often trigger that need to do something different
• 18:43
  and validate yourself in a different way.
• 18:45
  So the answer is no, it's never too late.
• 18:48
  You've just got to shift your mindset away from I've got to
• 18:52
  stay in this job because I need the money.
• 18:55
  Actually, we only need a certain amount of money.
• 18:57
  I'm not saying you don't need anybody, but you can adapt your
• 19:01
  lifestyle, you can downside your house.
• 19:03
  There's lots of things you can do to enable things to change or
• 19:07
  be different. It's never too late to seize
• 19:10
  different moments and opportunities.
• 19:12
  If someone's listening, still stuck personally or
• 19:16
  processionally, what one small step that can take to move
• 19:19
  towards clarity and confidence. Confidence to take that, you
• 19:24
  know? Yeah.
• 19:24
  Absolutely. I'm a big believer in learning.
• 19:28
  And read it. One of the things I always like
• 19:31
  to do is read inspirational stories and meet people are
• 19:35
  inspirational. I met a guy two weeks ago and he
• 19:38
  told me how he came over from Pakistan when he was 11.
• 19:42
  He didn't speak a word of English.
• 19:45
  He went to a really tough school in Bradford.
• 19:48
  Against all odds, he is now one of the most successful
• 19:50
  businessmen I know. It just shows you that what you
• 19:53
  need is that inspiration that drive that vision to do things.
• 19:58
  And you know what I would think is define what your magic is.
• 20:02
  You know, think about them strengths, but also find your
• 20:04
  supporters, find your your followers, your cheerleaders.
• 20:09
  Once you start to find them, absolutely, you move from that
• 20:12
  feeling of being stuck to that empowered feeling of actually,
• 20:17
  yeah, this is meant to be for my life or this is what I've
• 20:21
  created for my life. And creating that clarity and
• 20:24
  confidence is magical. It really is.
• 20:28
  Having people around surrounding you with people who have that
• 20:32
  energy. We've discussed this before.
• 20:34
  The networking and the people you meet in those networking
• 20:38
  will be those that will be your cheerleaders.
• 20:41
  I I call it, I'm sure you've heard of this before.
• 20:44
  The radiators and drains. So many people fill your energy.
• 20:49
  Different people get their energy from thanking out by
• 20:53
  themselves. Other people, like myself get my
• 20:55
  energy from other people. Surround yourself with people
• 20:58
  that give you energy and fill your core.
• 21:01
  That's what makes you feel good in life.
• 21:03
  That's really what just helped your happiness and overall
• 21:06
  mental health. Looking back on all your
• 21:09
  experience, what? Gives.
• 21:11
  You the most satisfaction in helping someone reinvent
• 21:15
  themselves up after such a big life change.
• 21:19
  And love this idea of defining what a rich life is.
• 21:24
  And it's often when people drill it down and think about the key
• 21:30
  components of what makes your life.
• 21:31
  It is about relationships, it's about human relationships.
• 21:36
  And it's about getting clear of what's important to you in your
• 21:40
  life, surrounding yourself with people, having a stable home,
• 21:45
  business, whatever that looks like.
• 21:48
  It is not just about money. Often when people talk about a
• 21:52
  rich life, it's something that interests them, something that
• 21:58
  creates a different energy inside them.
• 22:02
  The people they've met, the experience they've had, more
• 22:06
  than the money itself. If you could leave listeners
• 22:09
  with one message about starting afresh after a divorce, what
• 22:13
  would it be? The key thing I think is be kind
• 22:18
  to yourself. Divorce is a tough journey.
• 22:21
  You go through a real mix of emotions and it probably is one
• 22:26
  of the toughest time of your lives.
• 22:28
  So sometimes you just need to give yourself a bit of
• 22:30
  compassion and kindness. Take that time for yourself.
• 22:35
  Go and be selfish. Sometimes you really will help
• 22:38
  other people around you by just being a bit selfish and kind to
• 22:42
  yourself. The thing that's the secret, It
• 22:45
  really is. Thank you so much, Sandra, for
• 22:50
  sharing your wisdom and reminding us that reinventing
• 22:55
  ourselves isn't about starting from scratch, starting with
• 23:01
  experience, intention, and clarity.
• 23:05
  So if for those listening, it sparks an idea or stirred
• 23:10
  something in you, don't ignore it.
• 23:13
  Change often begins with one brave question.
• 23:16
  What if? If you want to connect with
• 23:19
  Sandra, I will put all her details in the podcast notes.
• 23:25
  Can you talk about your free Zest session?
• 23:30
  Yeah, absolutely. So my brand is all about
• 23:33
  vibrancy, energy, a fresh perspective.
• 23:36
  And the way I obviously work is that I like to have
• 23:40
  conversations with people to see that I am a good match.
• 23:44
  Because it is a bit like days to think again, isn't it?
• 23:47
  We should all find people that match our values that are right
• 23:51
  for us. So, you know, what I like to do
• 23:53
  is have a chat with people, understand their issues.
• 23:56
  If I can help, perhaps we'll work together.
• 23:58
  But if I can't, I'd like to try and point people towards
• 24:02
  somebody that might be able to help them.
• 24:05
  How do you then work with people you meet in person?
• 24:09
  Do it online. A mixture I often want to do
• 24:13
  face to face. It depends on what their issue
• 24:15
  is, depends on what the business problem is.
• 24:18
  I'm a big advocate of face to face workshopping and taking
• 24:22
  people out of their day-to-day because I think getting stuck in
• 24:27
  small businesses, people are just firefighting.
• 24:29
  They're doing what they do and so just taking them out of that
• 24:33
  environment when they can truly think about their business.
• 24:38
  Well, thank you so much for your time, Sandra.
• 24:40
  I know you're very busy. And I just wanted to add for the
• 24:44
  listeners that it's they know of somebody who they are, that
• 24:49
  person who is going to a divorce want to start something new,
• 24:54
  whether it be a business, a brand, you know, whatever.
• 24:58
  Please share the episode with them.
• 25:00
  So thank you for listening. And remember, it's never too
• 25:04
  late, as Sandra said, to begin again.
• 25:07
  Thank you so much.