Latest / The Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast / 001 - Justin Lazenby
Transcript
- Paul Fendley AI: Please subscribe to the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Visit us on LinkedIn, follow us on YouTube, and reach out to us slumpmonkeys.com to inquire about sponsorships or guest appearances. Thank you and have a great week. Paul: welcome in to the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast presented by Command Alcon. Celebrating 50 years of innovation in the concrete industry, they're proud to help producers solve today's challenges while shaping what's next for the heavy buildings materials industry. Please visit commandalcon.com to learn more. How about that, Josh Hare? My name is Paul Finley. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, appreciate the invite. It should be cool to to try to do this again, see what we can figure out in this wonderful world of concrete. Paul: I mean it's cool every time we do it, but what I like more about this time is we've actually been working together lately and man, it it just feels so good. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, it's kinda like old times, you it kinda feels like like the mid two thousands again is like, hey, what is what's new in the concrete world that's actually just something that we've been doing for a long time. Paul: We have a right-along partner today. And I thought, what better way to start off the new concrete podcast than to grab a guy who's no longer in the concrete industry, but he was once the greatest producer of a concrete podcast show of all time. Josh Hare. Welcome, man. Thank you, sir. Yeah. I mean that kinda is what it is kinda what we're doing. We're ⁓ I mean it's not even reinventing the wheel. It's like we're taking the wheel that somebody already made and we're like, Should we use this wheel again? Like Josh: ⁓ thanks man. Appreciate that introduction. I I do miss certain things about the concrete industry and I certainly miss our concrete podcast and all the fun we had together, but you're you're the replacement. You're the ⁓ the Tom Brady coming in to sub out for the ⁓ Drew Bledsoe and and sooner or later I'll be forgotten. Justin Lazenby: It's it's crazy. I mean we've as we've kinda went down this road and people say, ⁓ this is new technology, it's like but it's it's not. This is kinda tried and true technology. It's just people are finally realizing it's time to use it. Paul: Well, it's tried and true. We ⁓ we say that, but okay, well let's actually let's go ahead and explain to everybody what we're doing. ⁓ so if for those that don't know, ⁓ you know, I left active minerals at the beginning of the year to take a another opportunity ⁓ that was put in front of me, couldn't say no. ⁓ one of the roles in the new opportunity is a startup ⁓ company that ⁓ went about it in an interesting way and they they said, Hey, we're gonna buy this idle plant. It is if you loved Add Ten Gallons, then you're gonna absolutely be enthralled with Slump Monkey's concrete podcast. It's gonna be a very similar feel to the show. We are focused on being smart, original, funny, and authentic. We think if we can stick to those core values then And we're gonna convert it to make calcin clay. So perfect. There's a market for that. And it's in Georgia. So working with Justin's pretty, pretty natural that that's gonna happen. And the idea of using Medicain or calcined clay in concrete is not new. It's been around a long time. But what what is new to me and what I didn't realize before like jumping over into the dark side was back in the day I would never use more than like eight percent. will drive the audience. ad 10, it felt niche to like the podcast industry overall, but the community got built was so tight and so expansive at the same time. I hardly go anywhere even today. I was just on a phone call last week with somebody I'd never met before who was trying work together with me on something we're gonna talk about here in a minute actually. And I was like, ⁓ let me tell you a little bit about myself. And he goes, nope, no need. I listened to the podcast. Medicail in a concrete. Just it was nasty. And we're using like thirty, thirty-five, forty percent cement replacements with this calcine clay. I mean, what what is it about twenty twenty six that's different from two thousand sixteen when I wouldn't have even approached double digits? Josh: That's the goal, man. That's that's why we started it. But But yeah, I mean I was I was privy to the numbers and when we did start it, it wasn't really doing much at first, but it it had like a real hockey stick projection as far as viewerships and stuff towards the end there. So glad you could start something else to kind of build on that. Paul: ⁓ So I was started it to have some fun. It was really to have fun. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I I think we've we've all gotten to a point now with the cement changes and everything, we've all become a little more aggressive than we used to be probably. You know, we aren't just resting on those laurels of, hey, this is what's normal. You know, you and I have seen that forever. You've you've dealt with me. I love to to push the envelope. How far can we go? You know, let's make it blow up and then let's back off a little bit. So I think everyone's kinda gotten to that point now to where it's like, hey, how far can we go with this? And when you start pushing things that far, I think you realize, hey, this actually works really well with these numbers. It doesn't, you know, are there some challenges? Yeah. Paul: Yeah, we're gonna build on it. So if you'd like to join in on the new community, we welcome in all the ad ten folks here. Please find us on LinkedIn at Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast. You can also visit our website, monkeys.com. That's M-O-N-K-E-Y-S dot com. Slumpmonkeys dot com. And ⁓ shout out to Command Alcon for being our first. Title sponsor. ⁓ if you too would like to be a sponsor of the show, feel free to reach out to us at admin at slumpmonkeys.com. Again, that's M-O-N-K-E-Y-S. at slumpmonkeys.com. I review them all personally. We sold out the title sponsorship through October. If you would like to jump on that list, November is available. We've got standard ad. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, yeah. I mean it gets sticky when you get those high high percentages in there, but now the admix guys and all those guys have started to do things for these types of products to where it's making it a little more tolerable. Paul: Well, I think talk about like being aggressive. I even I had to be open minded as the as the company that's like producing this stuff. And to go in and be like, ⁓ yeah, it's okay to add all this extra water, like forty gallons of water to a truck, like, Yeah, that's okay. You're gonna be fine. Never in my life have I ever said we needed more water to get our strengths. Placements available as well. And couldn't have done it without the partner in crime here, Josh. We spent five years doing the other podcast. It built up the credibility. It built up the audience and allows us to do this today. Allows us to get this nice equipment. Allows us to put on events. I'll see you guys at Concrete Works. We have announcements coming out for that as well. ⁓ and opportunities to partner on that. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I think what you're learning with some of these these materials is that water cement ratio doesn't mean the same thing it used to. I think as we look at these things, some of these things just need higher water contents to to work. You know, I think that's even true with some of the cements now. They just need more more water to actually be Paul: So people are probably wondering, Josh, if you're not in the concrete business but you're interested in being on the concrete podcast, ⁓ what in the world are you doing right now? I c I can see you're sitting in a shop of some kind. So maybe you can explain people are gonna see this on YouTube. So maybe explain where you're at and what in the world you're doing over there. Justin Lazenby: be tolerable and be easier to use and I think that's probably the key there is the strength's always better when you get you push the water out, but I think to make these things more user friendly, the water's key. And I mean it's it's the best thing for for everyone there. I mean with that the water makes it easier to finish, the water makes it easier to control set. I mean there's just so many variables there to go away with that. Josh: Also propane and propane accessories. No, I ⁓ I started my own metal fabrication and powder powder coating business and ⁓ I'm in northern Maryland now, so right on the border, hence the name Mason Dixon Metal Works. live in Pennsylvania, work in Maryland, so I thought that was fitting. ⁓ but we service the region pretty much. I get down into the D ⁓ V area, ⁓ I do lot of weldments ⁓ and ⁓ metal for, you know, all types of contractors, ⁓ mill work. Paul: I I mean I've been talking to people for a couple of years whose thesis was like I think our mixes are water starved, but ⁓ but twenty years, we spent twenty years of R and D trying to see how low can we go on the water cement ratio and throw it throw in the chemical. Are you saying are we saying like, hey, that's wrong or hey, there's just another way to do it and these other materials are gonna usher that era in? Justin Lazenby: No, I think I think both of those are actually right. I think I think some mixes you do have to starve on for water, and I think in others you don't. I think a lot of it depends on the makeup of what's what's in the mix, how we're actually making that concrete, what what is the what's the end goal. You know, if you're dealing with things to where you don't have to finish it, yeah, you can you can do do some really cool things, push some water out of it, get content, you know, binder contents down really, really low, and when you do that, you know, it it works for what they're looking at. Josh: contractors, things of that nature. And then we've recently started doing a lot of work for local OEM manufacturers around the area, a lot of contracted parts, laser cutting, CNC, press brake, bending, tube cutting services, ⁓ mint stuff, plasma cutting, do all all kinds of stuff for metal fabrication and ⁓ with it being a new business, if you've if you've ever enjoyed spending massive amounts of money on equipment and tooling Justin Lazenby: you've got to finish it, it's kind of a different scenario where you've got to make it workable and that's you know. I think one L taught us that. I think that's the one of the things people might might be a positive when the one L deal finally settles wherever it settles is, is that one L has taught us that hey, just because everything else seems to perform the same, if strength's the same, hey, there still is that finishability side and we've got to do things to attack that side as well. Josh: get yourself into the metal manufacturing business because it is a high barrier to entry, my boy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thankfully for me my business isn't quite as volume based as the concrete industry, but there is a volume based element to it where ⁓ new fancy CNC and and automation equipment really comes into play and that's where you make your money being able to make a hundred parts in an hour rather than five. Paul: Mm. Well, I think you just described the concrete industry. I mean, the word on the street is folks are trying to go back to type one two. So Justin Lazenby: D it definitely it definitely has that feeling. It definitely Paul: Yeah. Well, I can't I mean I can't blame anybody. The imports that are coming in are all type one two and everybody is like, ⁓ I can get I can get type one two from Turkey or Greece or wherever. Yeah, send it. Send it. I hear you. I'm looking at that nice, clean, organized background you got. There's no way you did that on purpose. It's just how you live. And I'm looking at like the background of my podcast studio. And what I notice is that each clip that I record or each interview that I record, like more stuff accumulates in the background of of my studio. It's not on purpose. It's not it's not like positive. It's stuff stacking up. So the question is like we're gonna get episode one hundred and there's just things like stacked at the ceiling behind me. Justin Lazenby: Yep. Yep. Definitely have disruptors and the markets there. I mean th there's nothing wrong with one L. There's definitely challenges. It's different. But I think if you've got the right people and the right people working on things, you can make both work. You know, it's just it's just how how the cement market's gonna be and we'll see. We said it was all gonna change and we're gonna see a bunch of different cements and I don't think anyone had going back to one two as the first thing on their bingo card, but I think it's where we're at. Josh: Yeah. Look it looked like a hoarders episode in there by by episode one hundred. Paul: Bro, I don't know. Did I ever tell you the house that we bought here ⁓ back in twenty twenty three? did it used to be a hoarder's house? Yes. So it it doesn't resemble Yeah. Yeah, I certainly didn't. But so we're getting into some of these creative mixes. ⁓ I what I what I couldn't believe and what I still don't have an answer to, and I don't know that we I don't know anybody has like the exact answer, but I wanted to talk about it for a second is how low can we drive the ordinary Portland cement in the ratio of ⁓ Portland to S CMs? And right now we're getting lower than I ever thought. Josh: No, but yeah. D were were you in charge of cleaning it out or was that somebody else's job? ⁓ Paul: Well, that was two that was a two thousand and ten project for somebody else. They came in and they spent like a hundred and thirty thousand of two hundred and ten doll two thousand ten dollars did like a complete remake the whole thing. Like it it was so bad. I heard stories that it was so bad that the folks they had like a ⁓ there's an upstairs in this that's like a converted attic from when it was originally built and there was like a hole it was essentially just a hole in the roof and we would see in a commercial grade ⁓ concrete mix design. Justin Lazenby: I think it's how how much will someone allow you to? I mean, we've done some mixes here where that have zero Portland in and are not your typical deals where you need alkaline activators and all that and actually Paul: Nobody bothered to just fix it. They just put a trash can in there to collect the rainwater when it came through the hole in the roof. How how I mean, that's insane, dude. Justin Lazenby: been over ten thousand PSI with those types of mixes. So I mean it's I think it's very doable. I think getting getting down in the ten to fifteen percent range is gonna be fairly easy over the next little while. ⁓ it's just having someone that's willing to to listen and understand, hey, there are going to be differences with this. If you're dealing with foundations, these things become Josh: Yeah, I have a I have a similar experience with that. When I lived in Baltimore, my house was a was technically a new construction. looked at Google images of it before we closed on the house and stuff, and it was still from ⁓ couple years previous. And same situation, hole in the roof, completely dilapidated, ⁓ they gutted that entire thing. I mean all the way down to the studs and ⁓ we went in there it was new floors, new new studs, new drywall, new electrical. It was it was basically a new house on a on a foundation. Justin Lazenby: super, super easy, but if we're something that's finishable it's gonna probably tame those numbers a little bit. But I think the key there is just h how how open are people to doing it. Josh: From 1901, essentially, is what it was, but they just went in there and gutted the whole thing because it was pretty much the same situation as yours. Paul: So it's interesting. So okay, great. This is going exactly where I was wanting to go because there are I have I have two ⁓ sort of like data points and they don't necessarily mesh in my brain. So maybe you could help me out here. The conventional thinking is that with these SCMs that they are utilizing the byproduct of cement hydration. So the calcium hydroxide Yeah. So I'm glad we got it post reno and we haven't had like any real issues or anything, just normal normal stuff. But what I did find in the door handle of this former quarterhouse now turns ⁓ beautiful estate was a flyer. that little flyer there. Save area. Save the area. We're under apparently we're under attack, Joshua. would you know? that is released and is in poor solution is then reacting with not now not all Pozzlons act this way, but a lot of them do. And it's reacting with those Pozzlons and they're either forming a a CSH or a C A ⁓ SH and that is contributing to the strengths. But I have seen in mixes in the mining world That the attack is coming because they want to take this aband not it's not abandoned, it's shut down like steel factory that Cliffs owns in the in the town, and they would convert it to a ⁓ two million square foot data center. And that means the sky is falling and the world is coming to an end, that we want to repurpose old buildings to serve the modern economy. That were ninety percent Slag and ten percent Portland, and they were still getting the strength that they need. Now they weren't high strength commercial grade mixes, but they were still getting the strength that they needed. And now you're saying you've got mixes that are zero Portland and don't have an alkali activator in them, and you're still ⁓ getting what you need. So I mean I just I I'm having a tough time squaring that circle where it need ⁓ we think that these SEMs need the ⁓ Now, I think I think this is fascinating for like multiple reasons that anybody would be against retrofitting an existing facility that's not contributing to the economy. It's just sitting there. There are people that like work in there just to make sure it doesn't like fall into disrepair, but that's it. It's not producing anything, it's not contributing in any way. And we can make it something awesome. And and I in my I'm like, yep, great. Let's go. Let's rock and roll. calcium hydroxide, but there are mixes out there that show that might not be true. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I think I think the key there is kind of Double-edged sword there. So one, the second one you talk about with like especially with slag, slag will get hard. It is a cement. People, it's not truly, you know, when we talk about the SEM, it's not typically a Pozzlin or any of that. It will gain strength on its own. There's a few things you can do there, chemical-wise, they're really good at going and it it works well. When it comes to the SEMs, I mean, go back to everything we've always known about concrete. We never hydrate, you know, a third of the cement. You know, if you hydrate a third. Paul: And but I might be a little bit biased because this is like the market that I'm trying to serve on the concrete side. Like my initial constituents of what I'm doing are the hyperscalers and they're building all these data centers. So maybe I'm biased. So I was like, all right, you maybe I'm crazy. So so start traveling the country and talking with folks and data centers come up without me bringing stuff up. And would you know it? I've not run into ⁓ one Not ⁓ one Justin Lazenby: of the cement you've done really really well and when we add the SEMs ⁓ we're hydrating more but that doesn't mean we need more so I think that's what we're learning now is is that we can load these things up with SEMs and we may you know it's probably something someone a lot smarter than me needs to look at is that is that you know if you look at it under a microscope when we get to 60% or 70% SEMs how much of that actual you know normal Portland are we are we actually hydrating? I guarantee Paul: Who had a positive opinion about data centers being built in their community? Not Are you getting any buzz out there in Central PA about data centers, the hype, scare? Is it real out there for you? Josh: Yeah. Yeah, because where I live now is up closer to Harrisburg. I'm in Dillsburg, which is essentially like, you know, right between like the Gettysburg area and and the Camp Hill Harrisburg area. So closer to Route eighty one, which is a major shipping route already, ⁓ there's you know, massive three million plus square foot warehouses there for ⁓ retailers and stuff like that. But there's plenty of farmland up there that's close enough to to ⁓ metropolitan areas and you know there's there's Justin Lazenby: Guarantee that number's gonna be a lot higher than what we traditionally saw in in, you know, our our older concretes. And I think that's what's driving a lot of that forward is is with these SEMs, you just don't you don't need the waste of the cement on that side to actually get your workability, your finishability, and all that that we threw cement in there before to do. I think that's what we're really starting to to see is that that when we're looking at these things, we don't Josh: There's few that are proposed to go up there and there aren't too many who are happy with it if if any. I don't necessarily th in my in my opinion ⁓ I'll speak from for and for the people or you know in my closer circle, ⁓ we're necessarily opposed to the construction itself, but we're opposed to what the centers potentially represent as as ⁓ Justin Lazenby: It's not that we don't need the cement, it's just that we're able to make that cement so much more efficient. Paul: And all that makes sense be in the sense of like, what was the cement being used for? And it's not just that it's being used to gain strength. It's being used for workability. And it 'cause you gotta be able to consolidate these things and out in the field and you just got people in in rakes and come alongs, you know, you gotta be able to move and consolidate it. 'Cause you go back to the block industry, their cement levels are so low. ⁓ what ho yeah, what does that mean? Josh: The surveillance the surveillance state that comes with the increased abilities of the data centers. Paul: Hmm. Okay. So not fans of Palantir on the program today. so when I think of what the data centers represent, they represent ⁓ inference and compute. And in order to serve the needs of the artificial intelligence, we've got to have more inference and more compute. Are you like a daily user, daily driver of any of these? on a volume basis be because they're consolidating with these huge vibratory presses. And so they don't they and they're water starved even worse than any concrete you've ever seen. So we know for sure that if you can get just enough cement to hold something together and you're not worried about how it finishes, you really don't need much. Justin Lazenby: No, no, mean it's the same thing, same premise there when you talk about like roller compacted concrete. You know, cement contents are down fairly low on those. So I think I think that's what we're learning. I think we're evolving. I think we're just kind of on one of those really kind of the edge of a a breakthrough on some of that stuff is that as we see all these S C Ms come to market and we're able to do more and more with we're just gonna become way more efficient over time. Paul: Whether they're L L Ms or video models or multi model AIs, are you using any of this stuff? Josh: Yeah, on on the a basic level. ⁓ a basic level, 'cause my my design work is mostly two D. I do get into three D modeling sometimes, but most of the stuff that I'm doing it's it's all two D stuff. So there is an element that I can I can AI for for some things, but I'm not using it to the scale ⁓ that ⁓ that like firms and stuff like that would be. ⁓ but but yeah, I'm I'm certainly using. Paul: Well, how many of these different SEMs have you been testing? 'Cause our stuff's like a calcined clay, it's a medicailin product and so ⁓ you know, it's pretty pretty standard stuff, but y you're doing crazy stuff. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, we're Yeah, we're testing anything and everything just like normal. I mean it's kind of kind of our normal MO around here when we get the chance to look at things. I think we've got one job that we're looking at currently that we're gonna do five different novel products on. So that's and that's a you know, a blink, you know, blink of the eye of where these things come from. When you get someone who's willing to to look at it makes a big difference. I mean, when you've got those partners that are willing to Josh: Yeah. ⁓ Paul: So this is where I think the disconnect is. I listen to a lot of and read a lot of articles, listen to a lot of podcasts about people who are AI positive. And fall into that camp as well. And I think that I think the disconnect is folks that maybe aren't any of these AI products for anything other than ⁓ like ⁓ better of Google searching. And and it's for Justin Lazenby: to really take a chance and say, Hey, let's let's see what this does in real concrete. I mean, what's the worst thing that happens? If it doesn't work, then we we move on. If it does, you know, we may be on to something big. Josh: ⁓ yeah, yeah. A and actually I would say that's the majority of AI users. Paul: Well it it is on the on on like the cu consumer side. So guys guys that are just, you know, let me just search up something real quick. It's it's ⁓ vast majority of uses on the consumer side are just that. Let me let me search something up. The the enterprise side is different. ⁓ And is the side that I find myself in, although ⁓ I'm an enterprise, but I use it for work. And you say, ⁓ Paul, are you just sending out AI slop all the time? So in this s scenario, it's it's not Thomas Concrete ⁓ coming forward and saying, Hey, I think we need to use these new things. You've got customers that are pulling you along and saying, Hey, we want to use new technology. Can you find out what the best thing is and let's talk about it? Justin Lazenby: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's twofold. You know, we're looking at a lot of things ourselves and we've got a lot of data on things there and we've shared some of that data and then they come ⁓ come back to us and they're like, Hey, we've looked at X, Y, and Z and we really like some of the data they've got and we're you know, we're starting to look at at things that, you know, may and may not make sense. You know, there's some some things out there that probably aren't as viable as as other products, but you know, it's it's kinda it's kinda interesting, you know, to look at some Paul: No. had I I ⁓ joined my new ⁓ new businesses here and I was used to having Salesforce. And as much as you and I hated logging stuff into Salesforce with a passion, when you are in in charge of like all the things, you're like, ⁓ dang, Salesforce rules. I really need to keep track of all this and I need a a repository for that. And Josh: ⁓ Justin Lazenby: the stuff we are but it's it's different and it's it's fun all at the same time but and it's uber stressful at the same time as well because when it doesn't when it doesn't work who's to blame? You know, I mean that's that's kind of the old the old adage there and we don't wanna we don't wanna have that being a huge problem for everybody. Paul: I wished I'd have had it because like the guy who was retiring, ⁓ it was like the lead sales guy retired. And I was like, ⁓ what where's all your information? He's like, ⁓ it's on my computer. I was like, ⁓ Jesus Christ. All right. Well, send me everything you've got. And I've now I've got 6,000 files I need to go through and learn the relationships and learn the history of these accounts. And and none of it's just like theirs, not like his magical contact list. So I called Salesforce and I was like, I need help. I mean that's the joy of concrete, man. 'Cause you know, I saw a meme just the other day. They're like, ⁓ it's okay if you mess up, don't worry, it's just permanent and forever. Don't placing placing concrete and screwing it up. 'Cause tearing it out. Nobody wants to tear it out. That's the Josh: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's been the key is finding finding some of these guys that are willing to do, you know, stuff that's temporary. You know, they've got like a little lay down yard, you know, let's put some there and kinda see see what it does or, you know, if it's something that's not structural, you know, if you've Paul: They said, Great. It'll be a thousand dollars a month just to have the service. And then if you need like to import everything or need to build out the frameworks or you need to do whatever, ⁓ we're gonna charge you two hundred dollars an hour to work with somebody to get all that done. I was like, ⁓ Jesus Christ. All right. Well, signed up for a trial, went through I just did everything myself. We called Terminator, old IT ⁓ buddy there, she helped me out a little bit. I got some things built around and then ⁓ Justin Lazenby: Yeah, you're building an outdoor lunch area, that's you know, that's probably a good a good area to to do something really creative with concrete because you may you know, you may be able to really push the envelope because if it's foot traffic and all that, it's it's a lot easier to to have issues there than than where a building's actually at. Paul: If you're watching the YouTube version of this, ⁓ you just saw my screen light up with light. Like God just came down from the heavens. ⁓ but really that's this this ⁓ it's one of those ring lights that freaking influencers have. And I have never felt like worse about myself in my entire life than standing at the checkout buying a ring light. I was like, maybe, maybe I AI could help me. And that's what really started my journey on using it for more than just ⁓ search queries. I went in ⁓ I'm AI pilled at this point. ⁓ built a freaking awesome CRM that does all the things that Salesforce did for us and more. And cost me ⁓ Justin Lazenby: Paul said if this doesn't work out, he's gonna start doing YouTube videos on how to do makeup. My daughter will be happy to jump in there with you. Paul: ⁓ I didn't do so that's my daughter doesn't do makeup. She's not allowed to have any of that. She's also ten. ⁓ but the idea of being a YouTuber just she loves it so much. So she sees my ⁓ podcast studio and goes nuts. And she was helping me the the kids these days are crazy, man. She was helping me edit the podcast. I did a couple practice ones just to get used to the software. And Like two hundred bucks, maybe maybe not even that. It was probably less than that in AI credits that I never have to pay ever again. It's a standalone app. I don't there's no API fees, there's no billing, there's no tokens. It built an app and it built a CRM and it's freaking awesome. And so then I was like, ⁓ well, what else can I build? And then I just started building all kinds of stuff. Dude, I've got all kinds of things that help me be more productive on a daily basis. I'm five times the person I was before. You know, folks don't know all the technical challenges we had starting this morning. They don't have to know that part, but it actually if they did know, they'd be like, ⁓ yeah, this is definitely being run by concrete guys, not ⁓ podcast influencers. And so I did, but I did a couple of practice ones where I didn't have a a guest and she came in and was like, I was trying to learn the editing tools. She's like, Can I try? I'm like, sure, can't go any worse. Dude, she had it figured out in an hour. And then not only did she have it figured out, but then she made me a 20-minute video. for as far as capabilities that you know it with understanding that it's helping me do things, but it's like a it's like having a partner that has a lot of knowledge, like a lot of book knowledge, but doesn't always have like a lot of real world knowledge. So you can't just be like, hey little agent bot that I made, go do all my things for me. Because he'll make errors that are where he's like 95% right, but like that 5% that's wrong is so wrong. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, exactly. Paul: Like on the podcast software explaining to me how to edit the podcast. Justin Lazenby: There's nothing to make you feel older. You know, it's yesterday I'm like, Hey, Savannah, you know, show me how to fix this on my phone and it's like how how did I become the old guy who doesn't know how to use his phone all of a sudden's crazy? Paul: That it I like you lose all your credibility. So you can't just have him out there like replying to all your emails. You can't have him, you know, writing all your things for you. You you have to be like, all right, help me. And then it takes me, I can get infinitely more done by checking the work of what he's done versus having to create everything from scratch. It's an absolute game changer for me. And so I'm like, yes. And then every time a new model comes out and it's more powerful, it's like, holy cow. Dude, crazy. She had it figured out so fast. So then she hurt that ⁓ I was recording today. She was like, She can't wait to get back from camp. So she's like, I'm gonna edit the podcast and you know, we'll we'll see how she does. And then ⁓ if you know, we'll maybe we'll use some of it and and I bet we do. I bet we do. It might use all of it. She is one of those kind of kids that's just got a knack for stuff and a knack for technology. And it'd be great if she she ⁓ does this and she'll probably put some Easter eggs in here. So if anybody sees the Easter eggs, you make sure you call it out. Like it's way better, it's giving better stuff. It's everything's but I every every model release. I'm like, this is fantastic. Like, how is everybody not going crazy with this and doing all the things? And and then I all I see from everybody I talk to is like doomerism. Yeah, our electricity's gonna go up. Yeah, they're gonna ruin the water supply. Yeah, have you heard it makes a humming noise? I'm like, Does it really? Yeah, you hear three miles away. Like, what? Like, what are you talking about? And We'll have to get some swag on the way to people if they find these drugs. Justin Lazenby: There you go. It's kinda cool when you start to see them really grasp something and and really push forwards with it and it's like wow, they're gonna be way better at this than I am. Paul: Way better. Do you do you wanna guess what she's at summer camp for this week? just all doom and gloom all the time. But I think if people were doing the things I was doing, they'd be trying to fund the data centers and get this stuff to be faster and more awesome. Have you are you working with anybody else that's doing all the things I just mentioned? Justin Lazenby: I'm afraid to ask. I'm afraid that is it. Paul: Don't no, no, it's crazy. I can't believe they I can't believe a kid would even be interested in this and I can't believe they even have it. So she's at ⁓ Villanova University this week and the camp is business startup. It's like, yeah, so for ten to fourteen year olds and come in and learn how to run a startup and develop a business and I was like, Yeah, like, yeah, if that's what you want to do, absolutely absolutely. And then tell me what you learned when you get back. Josh: Yeah, yeah, and and to a degree I would imagine a lot of these larger companies, whether it be Salesforce or any web developing company or something like that, they're utilizing AI tools and they're passing the cost on to to you, the consumer. So whether you do it yourself or you go to a firm that helps you do certain things the admin side or design side or whatever, I mean everyone's ⁓ you're using it one way or the one way or another whether you know it or not. Justin Lazenby: Wow. Yeah, I was Yeah, I'm gonna need that. So ⁓ I was informed yesterday that my wife and daughter have been looking at a Vogue camp for my daughter for next summer that is actually in New York City and I'm like, okay, what are we talking about? Are we talking about fashion, but it's got a bunch of different avenues. It's got the fashion stuff design. But then it's got a business aspect too and that's kind of where she's keyed in. So it seems like seems like all these guys are starting to to do that for kids. We didn't get that when we were kids. It's like, hey here's here's a ninja turtle or something. Go play with that. You know I mean it's a completely different world nowadays. Josh: But there is a lot of doomerism out there from people that don't the concept or the the benefits of the service. A lot of people are just kind of scratching the surface and and it's a relative unknown I would there's a of ways you can you can equate what's going on now with the AI boom and data centers to like the dot com era ⁓ of the early two thousands or you know late nineties, early two thousands and ⁓ you know, some Paul: Man, it's a it's a completely different world. And you know, we're still trying I mean, I I wouldn't say we're doing it perfectly. We're still trying to navigate it. You know, the the whole like being on devices thing. My God. You know, I so my daughter's ten and then I have another I have a son, he's three months old. And is, you know, quite the age gap. But now with him being here, a lot of my time and attention's going to him. So my daughter's having to entertain herself quite a bit and Josh: There's a lot of unknowns there, there's a lot of misinformation, not to steal that that term, but you just ⁓ are unsure and unaware ⁓ kinda unknowing of the possibilities. And ⁓ a certain degree, people are right to be skeptical, ⁓ just you're skeptical doesn't mean you're you're right ⁓ necessarily the time. But ⁓ as as how they implement these data centers, I think repurposing older warehouse that are not in use, ⁓ that's Justin Lazenby: Mm-hmm. Paul: you know you don't want her just be like on an iPad all the time. So so like we restrict like how many hours you can even be on anything, whether it's a PS5 or computer or iPad, whatever. It shuts off. So you know, she just goes outside and rides her scooter or whatever. And then you know, just hope, I don't know, man. We live in a good area. So y you don't necessarily get too freaked out, somebody's gonna snatch ⁓ up or whatever. But you know, it's diff it's different. But when we were kids, parents didn't even know where we were. Josh: probably the best idea I've ever heard of. I mean, rather than taking just a barren piece of land in Utah or something like that, I mean you have vacant buildings in Detroit that are d dozens, you know, at least ten blocks large. know what I mean? So I mean repurposing older buildings like they're trying to do around your area, that's the best idea I've heard of thus far. I think power generation ⁓ of the things I think power generation is probably one of the biggest hurdles. Justin Lazenby: No, no. I mean we talked about that with my mom and dad the other day. It's kinda like it's one of those deals there, it's like, man, we were kids, you kinda went outside, you know, by eight, nine in the morning on during the summer and you came inside when it got dark and you may have came in to have lunch. Yeah. I mean, it was completely different world and it's like it's like I asked my mom and dad sometimes like, Hey, did you guys even care? Yeah, I mean you just kinda threw us out there, but but it was you know, but they didn't worry it now. And I think I think now some of that too is is that we we worry more about it because of the technology. Josh: you you gotta do something because our current our current grid system just doesn't have the juice to meet the demand. And if anything comes out of this, it might be deregulation for for the power industry, whether it's, you know, starting to look at different ways of generating power through small, you know, salt nuclear reactors, that was taboo a couple years ago. you know, maybe you're implementing new technology that's been available but no one's been willing to stick their neck out. And one of my favorite sayings is you'd be amazed at what you can do when you have to. so maybe a situation like that. Justin Lazenby: I a lot of that even translates back to the industry as well is that twenty years ago a lot of the issues that were had or perceived with one L wouldn't have been a big deal because everybody and their brother wouldn't have been talking about it. Josh: And I don't know if you've noticed her, Paul, but a lot of these environmental people have been real quiet lately. Justin Lazenby: But now with LinkedIn and YouTube and TikTok and everything you know, e the one guy who had an issue, now, you know, nine million people have seen it. And, you know, it just grows and it it doesn't have a chance to to be fixed and organically work itself out the way things did, you know, back back when other technologies were introduced and I think that's where where things have changed so much. I mean I remember being a kid and, you know, listening to my dad talk about, you know, the crazy stuff they were doing back then. That you know, he was Paul: Yeah, yeah. Well, I I I think we just jumped straight into the power stuff. That's exactly where I wanted to go with that. You read my mind because in this Doomer flyer that we got in our door handles, they listed it's probably both. They're organizing on Facebook, so who knows, man. ⁓ the and this person is a ⁓ it it's funny, man. The ⁓ it it doesn't look like someone who maybe Josh: I'm sorry, did you say boomer or doomer? Justin Lazenby: He was the first plant in Metro Atlanta who used slag. And it was you know, it was kind of you know, that was in the late nine mid to late nineties and you know, that's a it's kind of a weird thing to think of now that we've been doing this for almost thirty years with that and we haven't pushed that envelope a whole lot further than they did back then. So it's kinda tells you how slow the industry kinda changes at times. Paul: I don't know, could be a f a foreign national ⁓ passing this out, but they listed reasons why like having a data center in your back, know, backyard i is a negative. And the one that I am legitimately concerned about is exactly what you mentioned, power generation. If if we're starved for power in this country, then why would we tax that and put ourselves at risk? Well, I'm I'm in the world of like semi immediate gratification from like a business standpoint. So what what is that what do I mean? Like if we haven't got it figured out in a year or two, then we've probably got it wrong. And that that's how I that's how I kind of approach things. And when I see that we s made this switch nationwide all at the same time, we don't have to get into that. And so I went digging I found out some really, ⁓ interesting stats. first off, I would ⁓ and okay if the answers are wrong, you're meant to not know all the answers. ⁓ And much ⁓ of current electrical generation do you think is taken up by all of AI in the United States at the moment? ⁓ in 2022, we all start doing one L. ⁓ there's issues and some people have more than others. But it's four years later. It's been four years of getting the same product, and we still haven't figured out in a lot of places how to solve these problems. And when I see that, that's like a giant red flag to me. That like we need to we need to go back. And so when I heard Josh: as far as ⁓ percenta percentage of total usage. Paul: As far as a percentage as a percentage of total total usage of the American consumption. Josh: Quarter to a third? Okay. Paul: Five percent. Five percent of the country's electrical demand is taken up by the AI data centers about thirty gigawatts of continuous runtime. The data centers are forecasted to probably double next year. So at current grid capacities, assuming nobody builds anything at all, eighteen months from now it would be ten percent of country's load december thirty first, twenty twenty seven. I didn't actually just heard this recently. Like, hey, I think we're all gonna we're all gonna go back to type one too. I'm like, Yeah, yeah. You had four years to figure it out. We couldn't convince finishers ⁓ that it's okay to do something different. Justin Lazenby: And and I'm I'm super stoked 'cause I think, you know, there's nothing better for a quality guy on the concrete side to know that we're going back to one two and all my problems are going away. I mean it's it's we've heard we've heard for the last couple of years how that's been the the whole the whole cause to everything. So once we get back to there we should we should have no issues at all in the concrete world. If it was that easy. Paul: Sure hope we're building other centers. So then the question is all right, so every every layer of the supply chain for building a new data center is constrained. Every everything's backlogged. There's not one part of it that you can get where you're like, yep, I want to stand up a data center tomorrow. So the question is, you know, which one do you tackle first? And I love the idea of these NAT gas turbines. Did you know there's only two companies that make the blades for those turbines and they're backlogged? Sure, none. Not a not a single issue. Well now well now the cement guys can shift all the blame back to the admix folks. Be like low breaks? Shoot, man. Call your chemical guy. Justin Lazenby: The the the admix guys are lobbying hard for one hour right now. Paul: I you know, interesting. I've had a couple of the admix guys reach out about ⁓ wanting to focus on the calzine clays and like, hey, they they're like, hey, let's ⁓ see if we can figure out what additives work best with it. You know, some I think are actually already putting stuff into the market that are specific for that. What what other innovations are you seeing on the ad I've been kinda out of the admix side of it for like a year. So what other innovations have you seen in the last twelve to eighteen months coming out of those guys? four years. So now the hyperscalers are trying to build like their own turbine blades and stuff. But let's get back to the to the idea of like, all right, what if we had them tapped into the current grid we don't want them to take another five percent chunk? So ⁓ there any other options? And ⁓ dive actually had a really nice article about it where they said, what the AI centers could be flexible? Josh: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, yeah, the admix guys are definitely starting to look harder at admixtures that work well with with different types of SEMs, whether it be calcium clay, pushing, you know, the other things up, you know, your traditional stuff, slag and ash. Paul: What if the demand of all this inference, and and to define that r quickly for folks, is inference is when the AI is thinking and outputting. So that actually gives you something. during that thinking and outputting, is a way to lessen the Can you spread it out? So let's say you're you're Justin Lazenby: you know, some of ⁓ are even stalking about, hey, do we have stuff that's gonna help with biochar and things like that. So I think I think they're just now scratching the the the surface on that. definitely think there's some things out there with the the you know, five eighty five that Seek has come out with seems to be more geared towards those type of products. And as we talk about L C threes and things like that, I think I think those products are gonna push out very quick quickly and very rapidly. I think s there's gonna be Paul: In Texas, that's the closest data center to you, is another one in Texas, and you submit your project to AI and it goes into the data center in Texas. But that area is pretty high demand because it's the middle of the day in Houston in July and it's 110 degrees outside, and everybody's got the AC cranked up. And it says, Hey, why don't we shift this to Illinois where it's 80 degrees today? And they well, they can do that. They can shift. Justin Lazenby: an onslaug of admixtures that I'm testing over the next, you know, six to six to twelve months, which is always cool because there's gonna be something that we find there that works incredibly well. We're seeing we're seeing an influx too with the the strength enhancers. You know, they've been out for a while. Master Builders came out with Exceed a good while back and everyone else finally seems like they kinda caught up with that. But now we're seeing blends of you know, polys with with those strength enhancers in there and then you know finishing aids and all that. So, you know, it's scary because I think, you know, we may be trying to get too much into one product. You know, I sometimes I I struggle with that on my side. I like to Paul: where the they can route where the inference actually needs to happen so that they take less less power from the local grid. And then there was an interesting report from Goldman Sachs and I I thought I found this fascinating about like where is the demand at. Number one, I don't think this would be a giant surprise to everybody. Number one is Texas. More data centers are being built in Texas, lower regulations ⁓ Justin Lazenby: able to blend and do things myself instead of having to okay it does all of this because you know anytime you put too much in there sometimes things go wrong and you gotta figure out what that issue is but you know usually if you've got them all separate you can figure out which one's causing you the problem so so it's gonna be interesting to see what happens out of some of those over the next little while. Paul: are allowing for the construction of data centers. So you're seeing a lot more energy demand. Texas has its own grid, so they tie in pretty easily. So I don't think it's any surprise. Would you guess that number two is Virginia? Josh: I I I knew that actually, but yeah, that's I mean it's a densely populated area with a lot of business and a lot of lot of government buildings there. ⁓ Paul: Well it's not just which which ingredient or whatever can can you tweak to s you know, quote unquote solve the problem, but not not every mix needs that. It's not one solution for every mix. So the foot the footers and the sidewalks and the columns don't all need the same stuff. A lot of government buildings. Number three, Again, so again, it's regulation. So when I was at the Pennsylvania Agorist Concrete Association meetings ⁓ year, the number one talk was like, Hey, we got to convince the government to deregulate because we're going to lose everything to Ohio. And I thought that was really interesting. I didn't I'd never thought like ⁓ the the states were thinking like that on an individual level that hey, we're gonna lose to our neighbor. Josh: Yeah, I'd I'd have lost that bet. Justin Lazenby: Exactly. It's which lever do you pull when? And that's and that's gonna be the struggle. I mean, like when we look at things and going forwards, you know, we're dealing with crazy technologies that are rapidly deploying and so much is changing. But what's not changing? The concrete plant's not changing. And the concrete plant is such a large investment that Paul: State because they just cut all the regulations for building stuff. It wasn't even just data centers, building anything. And like, ⁓ we got to do that in Pennsylvania. And then the number one forecasted state for largest growth of data center construction. Drumroll, please, that would be the state of Georgia. Will come in as the fastest grower. So super interesting that ⁓ data centers are a hot topic right now for all kinds of reasons. I'm fired up about them. Justin Lazenby: that you're not gonna see people be able to, you know, put these things into market as quick because, you know, if you've got a concrete plant that was built in nineteen seventy five, you're still using it. And it's probably in a very similar configuration to what to what was built. And you know, that's fifty years ago, but that's a huge investment. So so those are the challenges. You know, we you and I have talked about this with your product, you know, it's it's gotta have a silo. Paul: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: And how many sil how many silos can you have? You know, will the scale hold hold all these different products? I mean there's there's real challenges that come with that. Paul: I'd love to see them get constructed as quickly as humanly possible. So if you're in Texas, Georgia, Ohio, or Virginia, you've probably got one near you or coming soon. Now, with the discussion about electricity, we get into the of why our friend Josh Hare has joined us on this podcast. So Slump Monkeys is owned by us. It is made for us. Yeah, I was gonna ask you that about the the biochar actually. So I I saw an interesting presentation a couple years back on biochar. And ⁓ for those who who aren't familiar, ⁓ the biochar material is organic waste and it it's being heated up and then ground. And they're the key it was interesting about this paper. The key that they found was a meta analysis and And when you have that type of control, you get to do recurring segments that interest you because we think it's awesome. The segment that we're running with our friend Josh Hare is called Conspiracy Corner. so fired up about a conspiracy thorner. I a good conspiracy theory. And Josh Hare knows more about conspiracy theories than anybody I've ever met. There is ⁓ one they were looking at the different biochar samples that had come out and some worked really, really well and and some didn't work quite as well. And and so biochar is almost like a catch-all for a bunch of different things that are being ⁓ burned and and ground and thrown into concrete. And so the sulfur content of the biochar was like the number one thing. And I thought that was really interesting. But as I got to like learning about some of these companies that were making it, there the sc scalability is going to be a factor. Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Paul: on this podcast that we are well there's two rules on the podcast. We don't cuss and we don't talk politics. We're gonna hold to that rule. We're not gonna cuss and we are not gonna talk political conspiracy theories. So if you wanted to argue today about and right, I'm sorry, this isn't the place for you. But if you want to learn about new conspiracy theories, we're we're not talking about did we go to the moon? Of course we didn't. But even when it's not a factor, let's say it's in but now you're you're trying to use Portland cement, slag cement, calcine clay, biochar, fly ash, there's not a is there a concrete plant in the world that's got silos to handle all that? I mean, I don't think they do. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing that's gonna be super, super challenging, is okay, which one of these makes the most sense and then how many of ⁓ can you use? And then Paul: Art thing is real? Of course they are. Those aren't conspiracies to me. But Josh has some good ones. Josh, what are we leading off with for conspiracy corner, July first, twenty twenty six? Justin Lazenby: then once again, back to your point earlier, they all are are different scenarios. So, you know, if you're looking at this one, it may be more structural. This one may be more of your your light commercial residential type deal. And it it's it's gonna be a challenge figuring out which one of those makes the absolute most sense for for everybody going forwards. And it's it's challenging. You know, a company our size, you know, we look at things to where if we've got thirty plants and all these plants here in Atlanta that are super close to each other and they all share a lot of work. Josh: Or we're leaving off with the fact that you cut me off the knees by saying no politics. So that's like 80% of my good conspiracies are tied to pol political agendas. ⁓ ⁓ no, for first one, it's it's not ⁓ the juiciest conspiracy per se, ⁓ but get to talk about one of my favorite humans of all time, and that is Nikola Tesla. And there a few conspiracies surrounding Nikola Tesla and the work that he ⁓ did or do, patents Paul: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: So if all these things start changing and all of a sudden, you know, even with the cements, if you had a one L, a one T, a one S, a one P, how do you how do you figure that out and make sure that all these plants can still, you know, help each other on a daily basis and still do the things that you're there? So there's a lot of there's a lot of logistical challenges to to all these changes we're starting to see in the industry. Josh: That he may have given off to you know other students that were working under him and so on and so forth. But did you know it is alleged pretty corroborated at this point that Nikola Tesla had designed a death ray during during lifetime? Paul: Are these conversations happening at like the Georgia Ready Mix Concrete Association? Are you guys talking about this type of thing? Josh: We're gonna talk about that today. It was officially called the Teleforce Tesla like it referred to as a death ray, but that kind of grew legs when the newspapers got a hold of his idea. ⁓ And it was a proposed it was proposed weapon that ⁓ projected a stream ⁓ of particles. know, nowadays we have you know laser beams and things like that. Of course that wasn't the case in the the turn of ⁓ the twentieth century. Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Yeah, I think everybody's starting to to try to figure it out. you know, if you look at it and you're looking at plants and and things like that, you know, those conversations happen internally and and you're trying to figure out what the best you know, what's the best setup for for your company going forwards. But it's it's unique and interesting. I mean the computer systems are changing drastically on that side too. You know, people don't realize that, but how many how many admixture slots do you have in your batch computer? You know, and those are things that, you know, everyone kinda condensed and went to fewer products. Josh: During the Industrial Revolution, but what it essentially did was it concentrated a large amount of particles in a super small area. The differentiation between Teslas and because there were other ⁓ and physicists rather ⁓ on stuff like this during that time period, but ⁓ long distances the ⁓ guess strength of that ray would fall off dramatically, ⁓ the differentiation in Teslas alleged Justin Lazenby: And now everybody's going back the opposite way. So it's it's a it's a rapidly changing industry all of a sudden. Paul: Yeah, it was you know, when we were doing Actogel, we're hooking that up. You'd run into plants that only had four slots and you're like, How do you only have four? And then you'd run into six, eight, twelve, you know, kinda ran the gambit. Some of these newer setups, I mean, I saw some like I saw some installations that Grace put in in Florida that were like the most beautiful adventure installs you've ever seen in your life. These people had to have like sixteen channels. I think they had eight and they were piggybacking all of them. Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Josh: was that his ray would maintain power over long ranges, being able to, you know, shoot down know, airplanes and incoming bombs and things like that out the sky from long distances away. Paul: I mean it just never seen so many containers in your life. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, it's it's it's definitely unique. I mean it's Paul: Wow. So when you texted me last week, I purposefully didn't Google any of this. I actually tried to go to the library and get a a book on Nicol Nicola Tesla. I was like, you have any biographies on this man? Because this is how excited I am about the segment. And I wanted to learn as much as I could about the guy before we got on here. You know what the library told me? It told me no. We don't have any books on him. Yeah. So not only did they not only are they covering up his Justin Lazenby: You know, I was I was one of the big proponents of hey, less is more and now I'm sitting here like, ⁓ man, I need this, I need that, I need this. It's like how many tools can I put in my toolbox all of a sudden? So so it's ⁓ you know, and it it people change. I mean, as you see it there, you you see things, you know things that work, and then you're like, Hey, let me try this and you see it work and you're like, Hey, I'm gonna try to try to push this envelope farther and how far can I get it? And then you're like, Man, this is really great, now how do I make it work in the real world? Josh: What? That's unfortunate. Paul: Right. And well that, you know, the whole like calcium clay thing, like so the whole impetus to use the calcium clay is to lower the GWP value of the concrete. And there are a set of large buyers that are highly interested in that. But for the rest of the market, I wasn't sure that there was an appetite for that because it always comes at a cost. space lasers, ⁓ they're now trying to they're trying to get rid of all evidence of our friend Nicholas Tesla or Nicola Tesla. All right. Josh: Well, speaking of evidence, that's where the conspiracy comes in. Yeah, ⁓ ⁓ exploratory when ⁓ when Tesla was designing this and hashing things out on a theoretical basis, ⁓ he looking for funding and support. ⁓ Initially to the US government and you know didn't find. ⁓ Paul: Yes. Let's go. And I thought it was interesting that you're in a position where you work for a multinational company that you know, being based in Europe, they they do value ⁓ low GWP concrete maybe more so than a than a US based company might. So I d I sometimes I wonder if you're you yourself are kind of caught in this little like in between where maybe the you're being ⁓ As one as one does when you want to build giant space lasers, all the US government. Josh: I would do. That's what Elon did. Worked out for him. He he he got all the money he needed to build his rockets. Paul: ⁓ Yeah, and he's go and now he's building the data centers in space, which is pretty cool. So ⁓ it's all connected, full circle here. Josh: Yeah, money money seems to find that guy. It's interesting. ⁓ but he he Yeah, he approached the US government, but not just the US government. After they shut him out, he went to the Soviet Union and and other certain ⁓ government entities. Yeah, he didn't just shop this out to the US government. Yeah, and that's that's where that's the pinch point. Paul: Dude, d mig not just a little either. incentivized by the innovation folks from Europe on your side, but the market in the US maybe isn't there, but maybe it's kind of going there. Maybe it's not. Maybe you can shed some light on some of the behind the scenes there. What's your opinion is? Tesla do? Justin Lazenby: Yeah, it's ⁓ Paul: ⁓ Justin Lazenby: it it's one of those I think as you start to look at larger companies and everything and that's why I've always been really, really fortunate is that Paul: That was his mistake. That was his mistake. Josh: Yeah Probably not a good idea because we're talking about World War One era and then when Tesla finally ⁓ passed away, which was I gotta written down there, nineteen forty-three, that's World War II. So he passed away during World War II and what happened was at the time there was a legislative authority called Office of Alien Property. ⁓ Justin Lazenby: Thomas breeds on innovation. I mean, like we you know, it says the concrete specialist on the truck, that isn't just a cool slogan. It's it's something we eat, breathe and and kind of go after every day trying to make sure we're proving that. And with it, you know, yes, there's a lot of European influence, but we influence them as well. So, I mean, it's kind of back and forth and it's one that we've gone here, especially you talk about cows and clay Paul: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: we've always looked at that here and they kinda like, hey, it makes so much sense in Georgia 'cause you're right on top of, you know, the fall line, you know, right there where there's such that that big vein. It's like, hey, it's been here forever. When are we going to use it in concrete? And we've looked at this in my entire career and just now it's starting to really come to fruition and people start to get kind of how this works. But, you know, to go back to the Thomas deal, when I started with Thomas in two thousand and one Paul: Let's go. Josh: Yeah. The office of Alien Property were at his room there at the New Yorker Hotel in Manhattan where he had lived for about the last nine years of his life. and know, Tesla had a touch of the tism, ⁓ and everything his ⁓ apartment there was meticulously maintained, everything was cataloged and he had all of his documents ⁓ in trunks even there was at least one safe, maybe two. so they went in there, scooped that stuff up and was gone within hours. Justin Lazenby: they were already doing fifty percent replacement of Portland cement. And then you fast forward twenty-five years and the average of how much cement we're replacing hasn't changed that drastically. Josh: Hours. Yeah, and the reports are weird because some reports you read that the Office of ⁓ Alien Property, they had somebody in there within hours, and then other reports say that they were like, you know, one or two days after his passing, they came. So there's a window of time there, there where there's a discrepancy on who was the first person there ⁓ or how soon were they there after ⁓ know his ⁓ death was reported. ⁓ Paul: No. Justin Lazenby: So so it's it's kind of unique. We do it different ways than we used to, but it's kind of unique looking at that and the fact that we were probably really, really early in that phase, but we haven't it hasn't grown. And it hasn't grown because of not having an appetite. It hasn't grown because of specifiers and and owners. I mean, when you look at ⁓ and you talk to them, you're like, Hey, can we go past this? And it's always just kind of been that hard line no. So, you know, with a ACI three eighteen changing here recently. Paul: Well, even so back in I mean you're talking about a hundred a hundred years ago. So even if it w that means they like the the tech there wasn't technology then someone would have to like be in contact with the government and say, Hey, Tesla finally died, come get your boy they had eyes on him ⁓ they were watching him because they considered him a danger and a threat. And he he croaks and they're like, All right, old boy didn't come down for breakfast today. Let's roll. Justin Lazenby: in the F three exposure category going away, now there isn't that limit on SEMs. So that's kind of the first step to open that door to really push past it because I think a lot of engineers, that was the safe spot. They knew they could kind of do that. And the engineers now are more involved. I mean GRMCA, we've got a couple of engineers who are sitting in with our technical committee meetings now. So that's that's huge 'cause we're we're talking to them every day and we're having these conversations and and really able to push that. But I think I think you're gonna see that part start to grow. Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Paul: Got in and took everything. So why think you think the government came in, the conspiracy is that the government came in right after his death, denied him the ability to build the lasers, then upon his death scooped up all the information so nobody else could get to know how to build the lasers, including ⁓ foreign government and adversaries. Justin Lazenby: And now we just gotta get the owners on board too. All the owners are really cool and really interested in the green aspect of concrete, but there are some there are some scheduling concerns there. So they've got to start looking at that, hey, how do we optimize this without a fade in the schedule? How do we how do we look at this? Or, you know, is it is it worth the time to build a building, you know, three months slower knowing that it does as much, you know, help to the environment. Josh: Right. Yep, tha that's right. And know, once they recorded his belongings that were seized, they did give those records back to the family, ⁓ which most those records now reside in the Tesla Museum. the Tesla Museum being Paul: So those questions are ongoing. What I never understood like what is what is the incentive for the engineer? Because I'm I'm a big believer that incentives drive outcomes. And and if the incentive of the engineers to build the safest structure they can, then they would not be incentivized to go out on a limb and approve a mix that Justin Lazenby: Yeah, absolutely. Josh: Yugoslavia. there there is ⁓ I believe was his home country. there a a ⁓ Tesla in Yugoslavia that has all of his records and, you know, they're cataloged and ⁓ Paul: ⁓ you know, the concrete producer says we'll be okay with all these alternative materials in them. Have those incentives changed at all for the engineer to to make them say, Yeah, we should ⁓ we should explore these new products? Josh: you can kind of go in and and tour that, but many accounts, especially his family, not all the records were returned. Federal hung on to hung on to some stuff. ⁓ The thing here is there were there were reported that three people entered his apartment initially. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I I don't know that the incentive there has changed for the engineer. I think I think people as a whole have changed enough to say, Hey, these are things that we need to adjust for the environment, you know, when we're looking at it, you know, hey, you know, if we go a hundred percent Portland and all this and your G WP's four fifty, you know, why? You know, I so I think I think the engineers now are seeing it and we've been really fortunate here in the South East. We've got a really, really strong Paul: Yeah, of course they do. Josh: John Newgington, which was from the New York Office of Alien Property, another office another officer from the Washington Office of Alien Property, ⁓ John G. Trump ⁓ the third person. So Justin Lazenby: good group of engineers that have kind of looked at a lot of these things long before now. And I mean we've been using fifty percent replacement in the by most of these engineers as long as I can remember. But now now we're having those conversations, hey could could we look at this? Hey if we if we push to sixty percent, does that does that really bother you? You know, and and we've got data. So I think that's the key now too is as the Rady Mix producers, don't just go try to change it. Josh: Don President Donald J. Trump's uncle was a professor at MIT. And was actually the first ⁓ the student under Robert Vandegraff, ⁓ the inventor of the Vandegraaff generator, did a lot of work with you know electrical ⁓ electrical currents and power generation and such. Justin Lazenby: Show them how. You know, if you go to them and say, hey, we need to use 70% replacement, have the data to show them why that works. If if you don't have that, you're kind of wasting your time. And I think that's where we get lost sometimes that some people's like, ⁓ this is a great idea. We we saw this research paper, we can use seventy percent replacement, but have you done it? And once you've done it, you know, you're it's a lot easier to get somebody. No one no one on that side wants to be the first. Josh: Depending on which Reddit forum you read, which I don't tend to read too far into those. I'm not that heavy of a conspiracy theorist, although I'm a I'm an interested bystander for most parts, but some reports say that ⁓ John G. Trump was there about two hours after the death of Nikola Tesla, and then the Office of Alien Property came in about two days later. That's where the conspiracy starts to turn and ⁓ you know get into, you know, theoretical situations. Justin Lazenby: But they're definitely willing to jump out there once they know, hey, this isn't isn't dangerous, isn't isn't a safety concern that people are really, really cool to go on on and try it then. Josh: Did all three of those gentlemen show up at the same time or was the MIT professor there about two days earlier? That's the true conspiracy here. Paul: Are these engineers that are open, like once you show some data and stuff, are they younger guys, older guys? You gotta mix. Really? Wow. Man, some ⁓ the the Trumps, the MIT connection, secret government organizations stealing people's personal files. We've got it. And space lasers. We've got it all. What a fun conspiracy theory. I'd never heard that before. this is this is why we bring on folks like Josh Hare to fill us in on conspiracy corner. what your what's your favorite part about this? Justin Lazenby: It's a mix. I mean you'll you'll be surprised. I think I think now it's kind of yeah, I think you get the younger guys are really excited about it. But I think I think the older guys are the ones that that adapt to it the quickest because once they look at the data they're able to digest it and understand that ⁓ wait, th I see what you're doing here and and those things start to to make a lot of sense, you know, Josh: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: You know, Kelly Roberts, who works for Walter P. Moore here in Atlanta, has been huge on that front forever and she's been really easy to deal with on a lot of those things. She's gonna hold your feet to the fire and say, Hey, you've gotta do you've still gotta meet these criteria, but she's open to it. And then, you know, Rob Wallacher who's over at Oozin Case, you know, Rob's been Paul: Nicole Tesla conspiracy. Justin Lazenby: one that we've done some pretty cool things on some jobs with and he's really opened up and and I think I think all of these guys were really conservative by nature 'cause, you know, being a quality guy, I'm conservative by nature, but once you start to see data and you see repeatable data, things then start to make a lot of sense. Josh: Nikola Tesla's work as a whole. Tesla started working under Edison. he was student of Thomas Edison. they ⁓ went separate Edison was working on DC power ⁓ and Nikola Tesla Paul: Okay, that that's super interesting. I I was wonder I I thought maybe it'd only be the young guys, but you're you're seeing a mix. And the reason why I was curious about that also is twenty years ago when I was coming out of undergrad, the engineers that were coming out then, concrete and materials were specifically concrete was only like a part of their material science course that they would have. So a lot of these guys were coming out and they didn't really have a lot of concrete ⁓ Josh: Presented alternating current, AC power. as Nikola Tesla was trying to develop as the primary power source for, I mean, the entire world, General Electric, was funding Edison, they had a significant campaign to discredit Tesla. ⁓ So throughout his entire career, great as Tesla was, ⁓ at every turn he ⁓ faced huge opposition from Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Paul: background like at all. Like, you know, and I don't I don't blame young guys. Like even even though I came out of concrete school, still didn't have a lot of background first coming out. Like I'm not negative, but there wasn't it wasn't hardly even mentioned a lot of times in the engineering. It was almost like an afterthought. It's like, ⁓ yeah, you just order 4,000 PSI. But the important part is what size was your rebar? And what was your spacing on your rebar? That was what was the most important thing. And so when we would take new things to engineers, Josh: From JP Morgan, General Electric, Thomas Edison himself, and the greater scientific community that was, you know, the fruits of properly funded projects through these larger companies after you know, during the turn of the Industrial Revolution. So as great as Tesla was, ⁓ he all that despite the fact that ⁓ he immense challenges ⁓ his colleagues competitors however you want to categorize. Paul: It was real it was a massive education. ⁓ it sounds like w y it's maybe not that way anymore. Or are you just dealing with folks that are dedicated to concrete? How's how's that working? Josh: them so there's a lot of Tesla's work wireless transmission, using frequencies of you naturally occurring inanimate objects. it's alleged that would be able like knock buildings down ⁓ by ⁓ Justin Lazenby: So so I think I think a lot of engineers now have they've grown. And like when I first came into the industry, kind of there was a there was a divide between the engineer the specifier and the ready mix producer. You know, like we even had problems getting break reports when I first started because the engineers like, ⁓ if they see that their mix is performing really well, they'll pull some in out. And that that never was the case. So I think I think now there's a a more collaborative approach between the ready mix industry and the engineering community to where we talk and we have conversations and you know, I have engineers that'll call me, hey I've got this building, I've got this challenging part. What do you Josh: Matching their frequency and vibrating the building at very high speeds, like being able to do stuff like that. layman's terms, being able to basically plug a probe into the ground and generate power from the earth itself. that's that's pretty widely known at this point, but he went to ⁓ he to various business owners ⁓ to funding for these projects. ⁓ So go to General Electric and say, Hey, I got this idea of to be able to stick a probe in the ground and be able to generate electricity no matter where you. Justin Lazenby: think what do we need to look at mixed design what are the potential issues here and then you know same here you know we we approach them hey we want to try this is there a spot on one of your projects where we can can push the envelope on this and I think I think that helps and I think you know industry associations have helped that a lot you know grmca here in Georgia's really opened up you know we've got our technical committee now has engineers we have contractors we have testing labs all on this one in this one group and that makes Josh: are and legend has it their famous response to him was well where would we put the meter? ⁓ know, so my my part about Nikola Tesla in general and basically any conspiracy theory that's tied to him is what he was able to accomplish theoretical and despite the the Paul: That's great. ⁓ Justin Lazenby: a big difference. Everyone everyone realizes, ⁓ wait, we all do want to accomplish the same thing. We're just coming at it from different directions. So I think those things have really opened up these areas to being more collaborative. I've made a lot of a lot of connections at at local chapter ACI events and then the course at at national ACI. I mean those things are so critical to be in those same rooms and have those conversations and sometimes completely disagree with each other by having enough respect for each other to understand why. Josh: massive pushback that he got from his peers. Paul: That's man, what a what a guy, what a life. And we know I mean that we know the earth is conductive. That's why we have ground. And then and then ⁓ you know the thing about the vibrating being able to match the frequency of whatever the solid item is so that you could then displace it. idea, you know where I you know where I first heard that idea ⁓ ⁓ Josh: Right, right. Paul: Have you already had your summer meeting for GRMCA that are we haven't? In July. Later in July. Okay. Yeah, this ⁓ this podcast will ⁓ drop on July first. So ⁓ later in July. So if if you haven't already booked your ticket, you wanna see Justin Lazabe in person in the flesh, he's almost always at the G RMCA, usually running it. Are you still running it or are you Justin Lazenby: No, it's in July. So they wanna be in July. Paul: A a little known television show called Ancient Aliens, ⁓ who described it that was how they moved all the giant grant granite blocks for building of the pyramids in Egypt. Acoustic. Josh: Yeah. Justin Lazenby: Right. Josh: Yep. Yeah. We'll never know, which is really what makes the conspiracy stuff fun. Paul: That is what makes it fun, man. ⁓ you I'm glad you're here to go through it all. ⁓ one other thing I want to announce that is also fun, or it is it actually is fun. But I am so, so excited about this next advertiser. I I cannot say enough good things about Mr. Manny Tejano. He is just salt of the earth. He's got a company. Justin Lazenby: So I'm still over the technical committee. So ⁓ you know times times change. We've got people on the board, people tied up in other stuff. So we we support the associations. That's one thing Thomas does a really good job at. We we've got people spread out throughout throughout the industry. We've got Jason Blythe, who's ⁓ one of our GMs up in Raleigh, him and I are both on the board of directors for NRM C A. I just finished up being chair for R. E. S. at NRMCA. My two year term is over there, so I get to sit back and heckle Bobby Dowdy and those guys now. So that'll be fun. ⁓ Paul: Called Rocket Start. You can visit them at gorocketstart.com, but I'm gonna tell you how freaking awesome this company is. have lambasted on this show. Well, sorry, our previous show for five years about how hard it is to get truck drivers for your concrete plants. How everything once I want to talk about a driver, it always seems so negative. But the value of a good driver. Bobby Dowdy, yeah, man. Justin Lazenby: ⁓ but then the same thing, I mean, you know, some of our guys are spread through here. Ryan Chanley, our CEO is on the MIT sustainability hub board. So, I mean, we've got we've got people plugged in kind of all over the place. You know, that's it's one thing you've got to do. If you're if you're gonna be in this industry, support what the industry does and really help push it forwards. I mean that's it's critical. I mean it's it's really super cool to see a lot of these guys that I I deal with daily that are competitors even seeing them out at these events because you know, it's like, okay, hey, everybody Paul: Having a guy that really knows what he's doing. ⁓ my gosh, can't hardly put a price on it. But it's a really hard thing to recognize and reward. Manny figured it out. Manny has a system at Rocket Start where he gamifies the employment and specifically the employment of truck drivers. Now, maybe there's other other ⁓ roles that could use it, but the drivers are what fascinate me. And it's almost like fantasy football, but for your work. Justin Lazenby: Everybody's starting to get it. Everybody's getting plugged in and doing doing good for the whole industry. Paul: Well, I mean, I don't I don't know about Thomas as a whole, but if you're speaking for all of Thomas or I'm talking about you for all of Thomas, you've always been really good about even guys that are competitors. ⁓ it's really a a frenemies, ⁓ Justin Lazenby: Mm. Paul: thing where you you've always been open about sharing, you know, maybe it's not a hundred percent everything, but at least what you're seeing and where trends are going and what problems and and sometimes even how you solved it and really helping everybody out. I that's really the way it should be though. I mean and I I see that reciprocated from some of your competitors. They do the same thing. I'll talk to them and they're like, ⁓ yeah, we figured this out and I was like, do you care if I tell Thomas? And they're like, Nope, go ahead. And these guys come in they you your company like sets up Rocket Start and these folks get recognized for ⁓ you showed up ten days five days in a row, here's a badge, ten days in a row, fifteen days in a row, twenty days, thirty days, you got a month. They get recognized and then they get rewarded in real time. And they can cash in gift cards that come through this site. ⁓ by the way, you washed out your truck after your fifth load of the day, but then ⁓ Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I mean that's the key. I think with certain things, I mean, like with one L. I mean, let's be honest, one L not being successful is bad for everybody. That's there's no win for anybody there. I mean, you know, if we do go back to type one two, you know, the the contractors are gonna probably be like, ⁓ we we were able to beat the cement company, but but did you yeah, I mean, at the end of the day there's there's so many things there that that come into play and I think I think we've gotta be open minded and and always looking at that. Paul: ⁓ we had a truck break down. We actually could you please get back under the shoot and haul one more for us? You thought your day was done. Sorry. Need you take one more? Yeah, man, I got you. Boom. Recognized, rewarded instantly. It's for everybody to see. So that when not just the bosses, but your peers come back in the next day and they're like, ⁓ man, Johnny took that load yesterday for that. It was cool, man. Appreciate you doing that. That's awesome. there's a leaderboard. Who took the most loads? Who ⁓ Justin Lazenby: And you know, what's what's good for the industry will always be what's good for everybody. Paul: Yeah, for sure. ⁓ what I always think is super interesting about the concrete space is much time and attention as we'll put to mix designs and to technology and and r resources into research and R and D and innovation, at the end of the day, what matters is that guy that's at the end of the chute. What's his opinion? did the most for others. Who came in and did all the things they were supposed to do without complaining and they got rewarded for it. Guys are taking vacations off the amount of rewards they're getting with this program. Couldn't be more thrilled to see somebody who's trying to engage, retain, and motivate a workforce through gamification. It's done by recognition incentives. And it's visible for everyone. If you'd like to learn more, please go to Justin Lazenby: Yep. Paul: What's his what's he think about what's the mud that's dropping on the ground? The you know, he's doing back breaking labor and if it if it's a pain in his rear end, he's gonna call somebody else. And it does not matter Gorocketstart.com. Ask for Manny Tejano. Fantastic human being. Gorocketstart.com. Josh, thanks again for joining us here the program. ⁓ are going to send it over to our first interview of show. We have the great and powerful Justin Lazenby from Thomas Concrete. As we get into all things current in his world. how fancy or how nice or how dollar conscious or whatever ⁓ it is. If if that guy's not happy, then you don't have a business. And that w you know, I I like that when you and I talk, we never forget that, right? We always our first thought is always like if we load this thing up with whatever product, you know, is that guy, is that finisher gonna be happy or not? And that's but that's crazy. It's it's interesting to me when I look at the like the supply chain of the business and all that And in hours. that stuff, it all funnels down to that guy placing that concrete. If he's not happy, brother, we're all out of, we're all out of work. Justin Lazenby: I i exactly. And I mean and knowing how that changes is super difficult too. I mean, you and I have done it a million times. How many times have we stood over a wheelbarrow with a mag float in our hand? You know, you know, seeing how seeing how that works and and then okay, let's look at this a little different, you know, and then you pull out a wood float. I don't know how many people even use wood floats anymore, but but they're really cool to to look at things with and and see how that different texture works the surface of the concrete. And ⁓ I mean it's different for every customer. I mean what it's not a one size Paul: ⁓ my god. Justin Lazenby: Fit all anymore. You know, forever we kind of looked at, okay, hey, this mix finishes well, so it's great. Well, that's great. Well, it finishes great for a residential guy, but that's not what the industrial floor guy wants. And then what works for the industrial floor guy, the the residential guy's like, I'm never pouring this again. You're the worst ever. I mean, so so finding finding that middle ground and and seeing the industry evolve there. I mean, that's the thing people don't realize either. Is we get hung up on a lot of these things with some. And admixtures and all that, but the aggregates play a key a key role. And there's no there's been no real changes in the aggregate world for a really long time. Nor are there gonna be. I mean, and that's the thing that's scary too, is there's only there's only so much high quality aggregate that's out there, and how long is it before we start having huge issues with that? You can only pull so much out of out of the earth before before those things become Paul: Mm. Justin Lazenby: you know, a bigger problem and we're dealing with recycled concrete aggregates and things like that that are that are probably closer than we ever realize right now. Paul: Well, yeah, I don't want I don't want this to be fear mongering on aggregate availability 'cause I think we're a long way away from that. I th ⁓ the probably the thing that would all hold it up more than anything is permitting. So permitting for additional quarries ⁓ would probably be the the single biggest detrimental factor. So when whenever we do get to life of mine of some of these ⁓ pits that we're able to open up additional quarries, that that would probably be the thing that would scare me the most, but like how much rock is in the ground? Jesus, bro, like we are so blessed. Justin Lazenby: ⁓ there's plenty. W you and I are not gonna have to worry about running out in our careers. You know, maybe maybe my gr maybe my grandkids' grandkids may have that problem. But yeah, I mean it's it's definitely it's definitely something we have to start being mindful of and how do we stretch how do we stretch that out? How do we make it better? Paul: Well, hold on, listen, I want to go back to something you said. Said we're not seeing a lot of changes in the technology when it comes to aggregates. So that's an interesting statement because we are seeing changes in the powders. We've seen all the changes in the chemicals. ⁓ seeing changes in the way we monitor concrete, the way we test concrete, the way we pour it, place it, finish it. Those things have all advanced quite a bit in some cases. But the aggregates really haven't changed. Have you thought much about what could you what could you change as as an aggregate? Justin Lazenby: Yeah, I mean that's it's hard to say because there's so much there that that goes into it. But I mean, you know, at the end of the day as a concrete guy I would love to get extremely cubicle aggregate, you know, all day, every day that's super, super clean and that doesn't work. You know, we all know that the the way aggregate fractures and it changes there, there's so there's so many variables. But but I mean just, you know, and I'm not somebody who's overly well versed in that, but, you know, when's the last time there was a huge change to crushing equipment? Or, you know, have there been, you know, innovations there and it's probably something that Yeah. Yeah. Paul: There's probably something. There's probably something. But but for like me and you, are we seeing that or feeling that? ⁓ no, we're not. We're not. ⁓ so here the most interesting thing I saw in the last fifteen years was there was a bunch of research done ⁓ well, it was on it was on concrete mix designs, not aggregates, but it was Justin Lazenby: Yeah, are we hearing it? Yeah. Paul: the change in the mixes was centered around the aggregates. And what they did was they went from using two aggregates, a rock and a sand, to using four. They had two rocks and two sands trying to change the particle packing on the mix. And it made the most beautiful concrete, like all the cracking, like mixes that were just horrible with whether it was settlement cracks or plastic strings, a lot of things were changing because They changed the particle size distribution of the entire ⁓ aggregate portfolio, the entire aggregate envelope. And I just thought that was fascinating. And I was so excited when I saw that. And then of course I was young and dumb and naive and I was like, This is great, we should all do this. And everyone's like, How many how many bins do you think I have more on? Like, ⁓ yeah, that's a good point. So Justin Lazenby: Yeah, yeah. It's it's right in the thing that with silos. It's it's you know, it's bin capacity. And ⁓ yeah, there's a lot of good that can be done there and and then and then it's the competing bar there, you know, like man, I love putting some intermediates into my concrete, you know, a seven eighty nine or an eighty nine stone in there to help soften that mix up some, but man, those asphalt guys really like that material too. So it it becomes a it becomes a big challenge on who who can get it where and when. So so yeah, but Paul: Yeah. Well, the asphalt guys were smart. They put their plant at the quarry. They're like, ⁓ yeah, we'll yeah, we'll put it right here on the quarry and we'll take all your fines, ⁓ anything you got. You just throw ⁓ right in here. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, exactly. And that's and that's sticky too. I I know in certain parts of the country guys get lost with the the whole manufactured sand and not, you know, ⁓ we can't use we man, we've used manufactured sand at really high percentages in the southeast for a long time. But I think that's one thing the aggro guys do a fantastic job of here is it's they make a well graded sand and it's not screenings, it's not you know, it's not things like that that are a are a big difference when you start looking at that. And I think I think that's one thing we struggle with with with some specify and and things too is they're like, ⁓ we don't want wash grey sand, we don't want manufactured sand and it's like okay, tell me why and they start telling you the issues they've had and it's like, Yeah, that's not truly a manufactured sand. That is a you know, a set of screenings or something that that's being used there and it's yeah, it probably wasn't ideal for your situation, but but let me show you what ours looks like here and a lot of times you can work through that, but that definitely some challenges there. But here in the southeast, especially in Georgia, we're really fortunate that they understand how to make a really good, you know, well distributed sand. Paul: Well, I mean, as long as there's no mica in it in some of those Georgia ⁓ sands, then you're then you're right. ⁓ I mean go up to not what's that? Justin Lazenby: And if I ever fig if I ever figure out how to get Micah out of the the ag out of granted, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a rich, rich man. It Paul: Go up to Knoc go up to Knoxville. There's there's no sand. There it's all it's all mansand. They've been doing it that way for forty years. And when when you tell ⁓ there's another way to do it, or that you tell ⁓ that you're having trouble, they look at you like you're crazy. Dad did I ever tell you I was on a job in ⁓ like the upper northwest? Actually, I don't know if I was on it. I think Joey might have been on it and he called me because he couldn't believe it. Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Why? That doesn't make sense. Paul: ⁓ so I don't want to steal his story here, but I'm gonna share it. And he was with a guy and the guy was having issues. He couldn't make concrete with limestone aggregate. And he was like, I don't understand how you guys are making concrete with this cubicle shaped. It was like the most beautiful limestone aggregate you've ever seen your life. And he was like, ⁓ and we're like, Okay, well hold on, what's wrong? And he's like, Well, my whole life I've only used it like river rock, like like rounded river rock his whole life. And now he's having to switch to limestone and he he he couldn't make a good concrete. It was just it was just interesting to see that everybody's got different problems. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, and it it's it's unique to see that at times too. Like we you know, back during the recession, back ⁓ seven, ⁓ eight when things were really, really slow, not that we didn't have things to do 'cause we had plenty to do, but we started trying to push the envelope and be ahead of things when things came back. And you know, we got to reading a lot of research papers and there was a lot of research on the the really high strength concretes coming out of the Pacific Northwest. And I reached out to some people there, it's like, Hey, I wanna get some of your aggregate, I wanna see how far I can push it and You know, they sent me this beautiful glacial aggregate from up there that's rounded and it's you know, got all these really cool colors and all this and I'm like, Yeah, this is awesome. And then, you know, what we ended up learning here was is we were better at making high strength concrete with our crushed ag gr aggregates that were more angular because that's what we understood and and we knew you know, we had a better idea of how that worked. We were we were finally able to adapt and make both of them work really, really well. So we never had to import aggregates from the Pacific Paul: Well, we're still pursuing new things and learning things every day, man. ⁓ it's really nice to catch up with you here. ⁓ is there anything else that you wanted the people to know about yourself or Thomas Concrete or or what's coming up before we get out here? Justin Lazenby: No, I think I think everybody knows knows that side here. I mean it's the industry's growing, the industry's getting better and better every day. You know, stay plugged in. If you need concrete in the Atlanta area, we're here. We'd love to to to get it to you. But then hey, if you're in Charlotte, you know, Charlotte or Raleigh or you know, upstate South Carolina, we're we're in those areas too. So we're we're we're spread out through the southeast, wanna provide anything you've got. If you've got a patio, you've got a high rise, we pretty much know how to do all of those things. So we're always willing and able to to figure those things out and maybe Paul: Yeah, and ⁓ I was just talking to somebody this weekend. I didn't realize there were eighteen ready mix producers in the Raleigh Durham area. So, you know, good good luck to Thomas out there. Justin Lazenby: Yeah, it's scary and then when you look at that and and see that many producers in one area. Definitely definitely felt by all of us out there. Paul: Yeah, that's crazy. But I'm ⁓ I'm I'm happy for the consumer. That's that's what you need. You need competition, need innovation, and there's nobody out there innovating harder than Justin Lazabee at Thomas Concrete. Thank you for joining the Slump Monkeys Concrete Pack Podcast. Everybody, have a wonderful day and a wonderful start to the new era of concrete number one concrete podcast. We're to the moon, Justin. We're going to the moon. Justin Lazenby: Yeah. Yeah. Walting off.