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A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984) · Left of the Projector

• 0:48
  Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host, Evan,
• 0:51
  Evan: back again with another film discussion from the left.
• 0:55
  Evan: You can follow the show at leftoftheprojector.com.
• 0:58
  Evan: As it is spooky season, this week we are diving into a Wes Craven classic,
• 1:04
  Evan: the 1984 film A Nightmare on Elm Street, which jump-started a,
• 1:09
  Evan: I believe, seven-film franchise.
• 1:12
  Evan: Maybe that doesn't include the newest one, but many, many, many,
• 1:15
  Evan: many movies in this franchise. But we'll be focusing on the first one.
• 1:19
  Evan: And with me, I have horror guru Oslo, who you may remember from other such episodes
• 1:24
  Evan: as the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
• 1:26
  Evan: And I have Smirk or Ashley, who you also may know from many episodes,
• 1:32
  Evan: including The Menu with aforementioned Oslo.
• 1:35
  Evan: Thank you both for being here today.
• 1:38
  Ashley: Thank you for having me.
• 1:39
  Oslowe: Thank you so much for having me back.
• 1:41
  Evan: Given that it is, you know, spooky season, I'm going to ask for,
• 1:47
  Evan: before we talk about the film, I'm curious if you have a horror movie you would
• 1:52
  Evan: recommend to the listening audience.
• 1:54
  Evan: And it may or may not be related to this film, or it could just be something you saw recently.
• 1:59
  Evan: And you can't say The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
• 2:04
  Evan: But you should all listen to our discussion on The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
• 2:07
  Oslowe: Today, I was revisiting Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and I was revisiting this absolute
• 2:16
  Oslowe: masterpiece of genre play, because on the drive into work,
• 2:22
  Oslowe: my buddy and I were just, you know, randoming music,
• 2:25
  Oslowe: and Jimi Hendrix's Voodoo Child had come on.
• 2:29
  Oslowe: And that is obviously older than all of us, but it's a great,
• 2:36
  Oslowe: great electric blues song.
• 2:38
  Oslowe: And it made me go, oh, when I get into the office, I'm going to put on a certain movie on my screen.
• 2:46
  Oslowe: And so, yeah, that's my recommendation for people that want that feeling,
• 2:51
  Oslowe: that twilight, well, the time of day, not the IP, that autumnal vibe.
• 2:59
  Oslowe: I can honestly think of little better than that little piece of nasty Mississippi back road,
• 3:07
  Oslowe: like just brilliant iconography that is Sinners from Ryan Kruger.
• 3:14
  Oslowe: But if you want something more Halloween-themed,
• 3:18
  Oslowe: Go for one of the anthologies. There's a lot of anthologies that are set on
• 3:23
  Oslowe: or around Halloween, and you can usually find stuff for everybody.
• 3:30
  Oslowe: Tales of Halloween is a pretty fun one. Trick or Treat is much beloved and kind of a cult classic now.
• 3:37
  Oslowe: The two films that preceded Terrifier were both anthology Halloween films from
• 3:44
  Oslowe: What's-His-Name, but I don't recommend those.
• 3:47
  Oslowe: yeah just go with your heart look at the boxes in the video store and oh wait that's really hard to.
• 3:56
  Ashley: Do now isn't it yeah try your local library sometimes they have they have DVDs
• 4:01
  Ashley: I don't know how much of the horror selection they have in mind but,
• 4:05
  Ashley: yeah you know what they need for that it's worth looking it
• 4:08
  Ashley: is the only thing the libraries need and not I would never advocate for like
• 4:13
  Ashley: a coffee shop or anything that you have to pay for at the library but a little
• 4:17
  Ashley: a little stand of movie snacks like when you go to a blockbuster you get the
• 4:23
  Ashley: the bunch of crunch and the snow caps some box.
• 4:26
  Oslowe: Of gummy bears or whatever yeah.
• 4:28
  Ashley: Bucket yeah yeah but yeah movies libraries always
• 4:31
  Ashley: have almost always in my experience have had dvds maybe
• 4:34
  Ashley: they got some good horror ones in there um a
• 4:38
  Ashley: couple that i watched recently the most recent horror movie i watched which
• 4:42
  Ashley: got it's got like a 2.5 on imdb which is already you know it's gonna be great
• 4:49
  Ashley: um it's called uh strange frequencies taiwan killer hospital it's like a found footage kind of like.
• 4:56
  Ashley: Mockumentary not mockumentary style it's supposed
• 4:59
  Ashley: to be like these people are doing a live stream going
• 5:02
  Ashley: into this extremely haunted hospital where anytime tourists go
• 5:05
  Ashley: there they get murdered so these this guy
• 5:09
  Ashley: who is going to be an actor and some other actors and influences are like well
• 5:13
  Ashley: of course we have to go there and hilarity ensues um i think it's on like netflix
• 5:19
  Ashley: or hulu or something um it was a lot of fun if you like like a it would like
• 5:24
  Ashley: some of the visuals really intense.
• 5:26
  Ashley: I thought it was it was a fun watch um and
• 5:29
  Ashley: then one that i thought was really good that i saw recently even
• 5:32
  Ashley: though it came out a couple years ago was no one will save you it's
• 5:35
  Ashley: more of a sci-fi horror film um with uh
• 5:39
  Ashley: caitlin i don't know is it deaver or dever
• 5:42
  Ashley: i don't know how to say her name deaver yeah um phenomenal
• 5:46
  Ashley: and it wasn't i hadn't read anything about it beforehand but
• 5:49
  Ashley: i didn't really so i didn't realize until like 15 minutes
• 5:52
  Ashley: in i'm like oh there's like no dialogue in this movie but you don't need
• 5:55
  Ashley: it it just it you are just in
• 5:58
  Ashley: it from the moment it starts and it's very it's really
• 6:01
  Ashley: atmospheric um kind of surreal
• 6:04
  Ashley: and the action pops off in such a way that
• 6:07
  Ashley: like you're it's tense right from the start so if you want something a
• 6:10
  Ashley: little more psychological and weird and then with the sci-fi element i would
• 6:13
  Ashley: go with that but those are the two ones aside from sinners because obviously
• 6:17
  Ashley: that's in my mind that's like the that's like the most recent like really really
• 6:23
  Ashley: freaking good horror movie that i've seen yeah absolutely um yeah since.
• 6:29
  Evan: We are here to talk about a nightmare on elm street being that this is now you
• 6:33
  Evan: know it's came out many many a year ago,
• 6:36
  Evan: i'm curious either of your sort of um memories of
• 6:40
  Evan: this film i don't know i mean this came out when i was just a
• 6:43
  Evan: two-year-old so i didn't see it until i was you know
• 6:46
  Evan: maybe like eight or nine you know as a child of seeing inappropriate movies
• 6:51
  Evan: and inappropriate times but i'm wondering sort of how or maybe not just how
• 6:55
  Evan: you like your memories of it too but just sort of how you kind of see it fitting
• 6:58
  Evan: in sort of the slasher sort of uh you know um these films as part of these long running,
• 7:06
  Evan: series you know franchises like how it kind of stacks up in there and you know
• 7:10
  Evan: just your overall impressions of it.
• 7:11
  Oslowe: I was eight or nine i think when nightmare on elm street came out,
• 7:16
  Oslowe: And I wasn't going to horror movies at the time.
• 7:21
  Oslowe: Within four years, three years, I was ready for Halloween.
• 7:27
  Oslowe: You know, my dad spent like two
• 7:29
  Oslowe: and a half hours building on my face with liquid latex, all of the scars.
• 7:35
  Oslowe: And I looked really gross and, you know, borrowed a rugby sweater from the next
• 7:43
  Oslowe: door neighbor kind of thing that was red and green.
• 7:47
  Oslowe: And it's a funny movie. It's not actually very funny, though it has some humor.
• 7:51
  Oslowe: Wes Craven usually does.
• 7:53
  Oslowe: He was on a real slump. Any of the power and sort of energy that he had shown
• 8:01
  Oslowe: early in his career with Last House on the Left and then with The Hills Have Eyes,
• 8:06
  Oslowe: he seemed to have sort of bled out in a bunch of efforts that maybe aren't held in very high esteem.
• 8:15
  Oslowe: Invitation to Hell and Swamp Thing.
• 8:21
  Oslowe: But he had had like three or four movies in a row that had all just kind of
• 8:24
  Oslowe: not really done anything. And I want to say two of them had gone straight to TV.
• 8:29
  Oslowe: Nightmare on Elm Street had like a $1 million budget. And I want to say that
• 8:32
  Oslowe: when Bob Shea greenlit it, it was $700,000 budget.
• 8:36
  Oslowe: So that's a made-for-TV movie, essentially. You had John Saxon,
• 8:41
  Oslowe: who, you know, working stiff, he was in everything in the 80s,
• 8:44
  Oslowe: God bless him. None of the kids were stars.
• 8:47
  Oslowe: And yet with this little nasty sort of supernatural slasher,
• 8:52
  Oslowe: and was it the first supernatural slasher?
• 8:55
  Oslowe: Probably not. But it's the one that sunk, like sunk its hooks into the consciousness.
• 9:01
  Oslowe: And it was the first one to go supernatural of all of the big guys.
• 9:09
  Oslowe: It was, I think, honestly, that that's part of why we have the slasher cycles that we have.
• 9:17
  Oslowe: is because of the video boom because
• 9:21
  Oslowe: we weren't going to see these movies in the theater you know
• 9:24
  Oslowe: i mean people did obviously they made incredible amounts of
• 9:27
  Oslowe: money i think that nightmare on elm street after production
• 9:32
  Oslowe: was finished was over a million dollar budget but it made like
• 9:34
  Oslowe: 51 back and so
• 9:38
  Oslowe: you know the house that freddie built as
• 9:41
  Oslowe: new line has been called ever since um it
• 9:45
  Oslowe: changed i think i think i think that it did introduce that
• 9:48
  Oslowe: supernatural edge into the mainstream one of my favorite
• 9:51
  Oslowe: uh slashers of the sort of 80s cycle
• 9:55
  Oslowe: is a canadian film called um
• 9:58
  Oslowe: hello mary lou but it's commonly
• 10:01
  Oslowe: known as prom night too hello mary lou um but
• 10:06
  Oslowe: it has nothing to do with prom night but it's a great supernatural slasher with
• 10:10
  Oslowe: a fantastic lady villain so if you need a need a fun girl to cheer for because
• 10:15
  Oslowe: she does things like have sex because she wants to and then the bad guys punish
• 10:20
  Oslowe: her for that it's a fucking great movie seriously check it out.
• 10:24
  Evan: What about you uh smirk what's your sort of history with this one.
• 10:29
  Ashley: I if i saw it when i was younger,
• 10:33
  Ashley: it would have been because like my brother showed it to me or something i don't
• 10:36
  Ashley: really remember watching this until i was probably in high school or college
• 10:40
  Ashley: and i can almost guarantee,
• 10:43
  Ashley: that i didn't watch it sober until like after that watching
• 10:48
  Ashley: it again the other day i was like okay i definitely remember this
• 10:51
  Ashley: and i know it because it's just kind of ingrained because it's
• 10:54
  Ashley: so much part of the zeitgeist it's like you know the story of freddie
• 10:57
  Ashley: and nightmare on elm street but i was like it was
• 10:59
  Ashley: kind of it was almost like watching it for the first time the things that
• 11:02
  Ashley: really stuck out to me because of that supernatural element is how much they
• 11:09
  Ashley: were able to play with like the special the um practical effects and everything
• 11:13
  Ashley: like with the the rotating room um and just we'll get into all of it i'm sure but um,
• 11:22
  Ashley: It just, I like a supernatural slasher, even the crappy ones I can have fun watching.
• 11:28
  Ashley: So I really, for me, this kind of sets the tone for all the other ones that
• 11:33
  Ashley: I probably remember a little bit better.
• 11:36
  Ashley: And I can see where those drew from into the now, which is really cool.
• 11:42
  Ashley: You know, even if it doesn't all 100% hold up, it's still, it's incredible work,
• 11:46
  Ashley: especially for the time.
• 11:47
  Evan: Yeah, I think that like, it's, it's interesting you mentioned you both said supernatural.
• 11:51
  Evan: like that's how if you see if you go on to wikipedia you
• 11:55
  Evan: know the obviously the uh only source of information
• 11:58
  Evan: on movies it calls it a supernatural supernatural slasher
• 12:02
  Evan: film which i think made it so much
• 12:04
  Evan: different than some of the other ones you know before it
• 12:08
  Evan: and you know all of those like the italian ones and
• 12:10
  Evan: and maybe canadian ones like uh
• 12:13
  Evan: prom night well prom that but i was also thinking
• 12:16
  Evan: of um black christmas the
• 12:19
  Evan: bob clark yes canadian yeah like it's such
• 12:22
  Evan: a different great film perspective on it where i
• 12:25
  Evan: think a lot of movies like halloween and the the earlier
• 12:28
  Evan: slasher kind of precursors to this film
• 12:32
  Evan: play a lot more on the sort of normal person in your town that could be you
• 12:38
  Evan: know the killer like you know in black christmas it's this guy stalking a sorority
• 12:43
  Evan: house and we all know about you know the Friday the 13th series and the you know when.
• 12:50
  Oslowe: A stranger calls.
• 12:51
  Evan: And all yeah exactly and I think this one changed that a lot and to me I've
• 12:57
  Evan: actually was just I was listening to this book on,
• 13:01
  Evan: Wes Craven, more about Scream. But I didn't realize he had a bunch of degrees, like, in psychology.
• 13:07
  Evan: And so it really makes a lot of sense that he was able to, like,
• 13:10
  Evan: dig into a movie about, you know, this subconscious that people are having.
• 13:15
  Evan: Like, at the heart of it, this is about people who are being killed while they're dreaming.
• 13:19
  Evan: And so it has that supernatural aspect. So I don't know how,
• 13:22
  Evan: like, what do you make of the idea that, like, the killer can get us while we're dreaming?
• 13:28
  Evan: And, like, do you think that's some kind of, like, do you think he meant it
• 13:31
  Evan: as some kind of metaphor for something deeper or or do you think it's a metaphor
• 13:35
  Evan: for something deeper whether Wes Craven.
• 13:37
  Oslowe: Absolutely a hundred
• 13:40
  Oslowe: percent Wes Craven never made a movie that was just about
• 13:43
  Oslowe: what the movie was about of course and I think he'd be the first he'd
• 13:46
  Oslowe: be the first filmmaker to say that there are definitely filmmakers who
• 13:49
  Oslowe: would say no I made the movie you decide what it's about and I respect that
• 13:53
  Oslowe: but Craven was not one of them Craven loved to talk about well why did we do
• 13:57
  Oslowe: this you know and And I actually think that he was touching on a lot of the
• 14:01
  Oslowe: same themes in Nightmare on Elm Street that he would explore much more effectively,
• 14:06
  Oslowe: in my opinion, in People Under the Stairs.
• 14:09
  Oslowe: I think he starts to deal with Reagan America as early as Nightmare on Elm Street.
• 14:16
  Oslowe: And one could even argue that The Hills Have Eyes touches a little bit into
• 14:21
  Oslowe: Reagan's California, but that's a different episode.
• 14:25
  Oslowe: No, I think I think that Nightmare on Elm Street is partially so iconic because Freddy cheats.
• 14:32
  Oslowe: He gets you in your dreams. That's not fair.
• 14:34
  Oslowe: Fuck that. That's when I'm asleep, you know. And and in some of the later films,
• 14:39
  Oslowe: they really play with that.
• 14:40
  Oslowe: We're like, hey, I'm supposed to win. It's my dream.
• 14:43
  Oslowe: I'm the good guy. And it's like, oh, sorry, pal. Those rules don't apply here.
• 14:47
  Oslowe: This is nightmare world. And that freedom for the filmmakers,
• 14:51
  Oslowe: I think, is why Freddy is so beloved when he's only in a couple of good movies
• 14:58
  Oslowe: and then some really not good ones.
• 15:01
  Oslowe: Like, you know, he's he's his his output is not very high, but he is probably
• 15:08
  Oslowe: one of the most beloved of the slasher icons.
• 15:11
  Evan: Yeah. And one thing, since you mentioned Reagan and this is being came out in
• 15:15
  Evan: 1984, one of the things that he did say about the film was that it's something,
• 15:20
  Evan: you know, the the underlying sort of plot of this is Freddie is going after
• 15:25
  Evan: these children because of what their parents had done in the past, the sins of the parents.
• 15:29
  Evan: And when you said Reagan, it almost makes me think of people who are,
• 15:33
  Evan: you know, growing up in the 80s like I did are dealing with the sins of the
• 15:39
  Evan: parents, you know, in society.
• 15:41
  Evan: Like we have to deal with the shit that we have to deal with in the 80s and
• 15:45
  Evan: 90s and progressively getting worse because of the sins of our all of our collective
• 15:50
  Evan: sort of parents. because.
• 15:51
  Oslowe: Of what the the boomers and the silent generation etc the world they had built
• 15:57
  Oslowe: is the one that we ended up in it's uh yeah no i totally hear you agree.
• 16:01
  Evan: Yeah and you could go even further and say like you know they kind
• 16:04
  Evan: of live in this waking dream thinking like oh yeah things are you know great
• 16:08
  Evan: and cool you know like yeah like i you know you bought a house for you know
• 16:11
  Evan: ten thousand dollars you know now ten thousand dollars will buy you like a you
• 16:15
  Evan: know a pint of ice cream and a you know six pack of beer so you know yeah.
• 16:21
  Ashley: It's.
• 16:21
  Oslowe: Not even good beer.
• 16:24
  Ashley: And their houses too like okay so there's a pretty clear delineation uh between the,
• 16:31
  Ashley: the two couples the two couples in the
• 16:34
  Ashley: movie um glenn and nancy and
• 16:37
  Ashley: then tina and what's his name the other one
• 16:40
  Ashley: i forget him because he's like rod rod thank
• 16:43
  Ashley: you um tina clearly you
• 16:46
  Ashley: know her mother is like when she's around she
• 16:49
  Ashley: has some guy over and then she's just gone like we never see
• 16:52
  Ashley: her again for the rest of the movie she doesn't seem to be very present um
• 16:56
  Ashley: just barely involved in her kid's life the house is
• 16:59
  Ashley: not like totally crappy but then in juxtaposition to
• 17:02
  Ashley: where nancy lives her parents are divorced her
• 17:05
  Ashley: mom is like apparently a secret drunk which you
• 17:08
  Ashley: don't like i didn't realize that until like
• 17:10
  Ashley: later on in the movie when she's like standing she's like
• 17:14
  Ashley: pulls a bottle out and starts drinking it like in the hallway and
• 17:18
  Ashley: then across the street where glenn lives
• 17:21
  Ashley: is like immaculate and yeah these people are doing
• 17:24
  Ashley: super well like even though there's a killer stalking
• 17:27
  Ashley: their children like their main concerns are like for for tina's
• 17:31
  Ashley: mom's just going away the rod's parents i don't
• 17:33
  Ashley: know maybe they don't exist we literally never see them he has like a crappy
• 17:37
  Ashley: history they write him off as like a no good kid and then yes yes he is yeah
• 17:44
  Ashley: he's got the jacket and everything he's very he's completely he's that type
• 17:48
  Ashley: yeah and then the other kids the And Glenn, his mom.
• 17:52
  Ashley: She seems to be very involved, but she also just like, she has no idea what
• 17:57
  Ashley: the hell is actually happening.
• 17:58
  Ashley: He never tells his parents that he's going to get killed in his sleep,
• 18:02
  Ashley: which is crazy to me how little people communicate this, but people don't talk to their parents.
• 18:08
  Ashley: So I guess that's realistic. he.
• 18:10
  Evan: Does tell his parents he's gonna watch like the what the nude you know uh what does.
• 18:15
  Ashley: He say like the the nude miss america yeah miss nude america because she's like
• 18:21
  Ashley: she's like how can you watch tv and listen to your records at the same time
• 18:24
  Ashley: he's like well not listening to the tv,
• 18:26
  Ashley: Miss Noon America is going to go on. She's like, well, you won't be able to
• 18:29
  Ashley: hear her. And he's like, who cares what she says?
• 18:32
  Oslowe: Oh, oh, oh.
• 18:34
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 18:35
  Oslowe: Train the men.
• 18:37
  Ashley: And then his dad.
• 18:38
  Oslowe: Was it ad-readed by Johnny Depp?
• 18:42
  Ashley: It's actually, it ages really well when he says at one point,
• 18:45
  Ashley: well, who would want to kill me? Like, I don't know.
• 18:51
  Ashley: But yeah, these kids, their parents are not present. And even when they're trying
• 18:55
  Ashley: to be, they just miss, even when the kids are telling them exactly what's going
• 19:00
  Ashley: on, they're just, they're missing the mark completely.
• 19:02
  Ashley: They're just, they're completely useless. So the kids are really just left to
• 19:06
  Ashley: pick up the pieces of what their parents have completely fucked up.
• 19:10
  Evan: I mean, Nancy basically has to do the job of her parents and sort of the police
• 19:16
  Evan: and, you know, getting to school.
• 19:18
  Evan: Her mom's not taking care of her really at all. I mean, she makes her take a
• 19:23
  Evan: bath, but she almost drowns in there.
• 19:26
  Evan: She's not, I mean, I mean, to be fair, she fell asleep for, for a hot second
• 19:30
  Evan: and, you know, Freddie almost had her.
• 19:33
  Evan: And maybe my favorite shot of the entire movie is the, the hand out of the bathtub.
• 19:37
  Evan: I don't know where I was going with that exactly. Other than just,
• 19:40
  Evan: I think that the, as you said, like Oslo, like Craven isn't intent,
• 19:45
  Evan: unintentionally making any of these, these choices.
• 19:48
  Evan: and a lot of the film too
• 19:51
  Evan: this is more it's like there's a lot of autobiographical elements
• 19:54
  Evan: like he named the character kruger because
• 19:58
  Evan: of a kid who had bullied him as a child and uh
• 20:02
  Evan: he you know didn't have
• 20:05
  Evan: the best childhood his dad left him at a very young age as well
• 20:08
  Evan: and so it seems like he's putting himself into this film more than maybe any
• 20:14
  Evan: of his others i don't well i guess maybe some of his early work you know he'll
• 20:17
  Evan: suffice maybe but i don't know what you make of that like how he puts himself
• 20:23
  Evan: into this and if there's you know anything else to it.
• 20:25
  Oslowe: I mean i don't know about self-insert i haven't
• 20:28
  Oslowe: honestly read that much about wes's early life uh until he was working doing
• 20:35
  Oslowe: edits in new york that's kind of when i pick up the trail i know that he was
• 20:41
  Oslowe: inspired after reading several accounts in the newspaper about,
• 20:47
  Oslowe: I believe it was some Hmong refugees,
• 20:50
  Oslowe: men between the age of like 18 and 50.
• 20:54
  Oslowe: And there were a lot of refugees from Cambodia and Laos in that particular period
• 21:00
  Oslowe: in time for some reason. You could say.
• 21:04
  Oslowe: Some of them didn't want to sleep because the nightmares were so bad.
• 21:08
  Oslowe: And then according to Wes Craven, in the articles that he sort of pieced together,
• 21:13
  Oslowe: wait a second, and some of these guys died in their sleep.
• 21:16
  Oslowe: And I think it's even referred to as like, and please forgive me,
• 21:20
  Oslowe: but it's like Asian death syndrome or something like that, where you're like, wow, interesting.
• 21:25
  Oslowe: But I mean, refugees who had been through some shit died mysteriously.
• 21:30
  Oslowe: I don't think it is that mysterious for us to fail.
• 21:35
  Oslowe: I think that our hearts and our minds can only take so much trauma.
• 21:38
  Oslowe: But that's just my own personal, you know, I think that death is a terrible inevitability.
• 21:45
  Oslowe: But he was just hooked. And I think particularly, he said it was something about
• 21:49
  Oslowe: finding out that one of these guys who didn't want to sleep had kept a coffee
• 21:53
  Oslowe: pot in his closet that his parents didn't know.
• 21:56
  Oslowe: And and of course Evan you sent me a message the other night like how did her
• 22:01
  Oslowe: mom not smell the coffee and I'm like because she was drunk,
• 22:04
  Oslowe: because she was drunk off the secret vodka that she keeps in the linen closet
• 22:08
  Oslowe: yeah which is different than the bottle that she drops earlier in the movie well that's.
• 22:14
  Evan: Why she needed the closet vodka right she needed you know.
• 22:16
  Oslowe: It's funny because like Ronnie Blakeney I've seen her in other things who played
• 22:22
  Oslowe: the mom and I don't think she's a bad actor but either She and Wes did not agree on what they wanted Mrs.
• 22:31
  Oslowe: Thompson to be performing like.
• 22:33
  Oslowe: I mean, I feel like there was a disconnect because every time I've watched this
• 22:38
  Oslowe: movie since I was a kid, her performance has always hit me as just wrong.
• 22:44
  Ashley: You know what it reads to me as
• 22:46
  Ashley: is like somewhat evil, like soap opera matriarch. The way she carried it.
• 22:52
  Oslowe: Yeah.
• 22:52
  Ashley: And she's not, because I looked her up, because I was like, I have to know,
• 22:56
  Ashley: like, where she, like, how she trained, like, what other things she's,
• 22:59
  Ashley: she did, like, a lot of movies.
• 23:00
  Evan: Nashville.
• 23:01
  Ashley: Yeah. But the way that she, like, frames herself in some of these shots,
• 23:05
  Ashley: I forget what it is that Nancy sang to her, but she looks like that she gives
• 23:09
  Ashley: the three-quarter profile to the camera, and she's talking to Nancy,
• 23:12
  Ashley: but she's looking over here.
• 23:14
  Ashley: It's just a very, like, specific style of acting that is completely different
• 23:18
  Ashley: from anybody else in the movie. Thank you. And it sticks with you. Yeah.
• 23:21
  Oslowe: Helps me feel less crazy.
• 23:23
  Evan: That makes a lot of sense.
• 23:24
  Ashley: No, you're absolutely right.
• 23:25
  Evan: Because in a way, I don't want to call this like a, I mean, when I say cheap,
• 23:30
  Evan: I mean like literally it was made for cheap.
• 23:32
  Evan: They had to scrape together, you know, what's his name? Bob Shea.
• 23:36
  Evan: Like I had to scrape together the money to get this to be made.
• 23:40
  Evan: But like in a way, it's almost like.
• 23:42
  Evan: For me, it's almost like Wes Craven was focusing more on Nancy and I think like
• 23:47
  Evan: Freddy Krueger and the kind of the the vibe of the movie and probably just kind
• 23:51
  Evan: of like let her do what she wanted to do.
• 23:53
  Evan: That's the only explanation I can have, because you can keep and get people to act.
• 23:57
  Oslowe: I mean, I I suspect that that she was probably at the time one of the bigger names in the movie.
• 24:04
  Evan: And John Saxon.
• 24:05
  Oslowe: Yeah, so how much—well, I mean, John Saxon had transferred almost entirely to
• 24:10
  Oslowe: either starring in Italian films or supporting role in American films.
• 24:14
  Oslowe: I don't think he was under a lot of pretense as to what his career was by the 80s, you know?
• 24:21
  Oslowe: I mean, he seems like a solid guy who knew what he was getting called on to do.
• 24:25
  Oslowe: He was either eat people for the Italians or be a sad dad, you know?
• 24:30
  Evan: Speaking of, he was also in Black Christmas, which we mentioned.
• 24:33
  Oslowe: Yes, he was. And Joe Unger, who plays Sergeant Garcia, the night sergeant who
• 24:41
  Oslowe: won't let Heather Lagenkamp in to see Rod.
• 24:45
  Oslowe: Joe Unger went on to play one of the Texas Chainsaw family in Leatherface,
• 24:49
  Oslowe: the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 3.
• 24:52
  Oslowe: There's always someone in the backgrounds in a Wes Craven film who does something
• 24:58
  Oslowe: else. But, I mean, I don't think Ronnie Blakely's bad.
• 25:01
  Oslowe: But, yeah, I think, like you said, it's like she's almost doing like a TV arch
• 25:04
  Oslowe: kind of performance, especially when she reveals the backstory.
• 25:10
  Ashley: Yes.
• 25:11
  Oslowe: And that backstory is a fucking doozy. I am allowed to curse on this, right?
• 25:16
  Evan: Oh, please. If you didn't curse on it, I'd have to cut it.
• 25:20
  Oslowe: I think that that backstory transcends most slasher films.
• 25:26
  Oslowe: because it makes you go wait so hold
• 25:29
  Oslowe: on is he getting like a just revenge from beyond the grave i mean i know that
• 25:36
  Oslowe: we're given this whole oh and there was bad evidence so it was thrown out but
• 25:40
  Oslowe: she's so awkward in that scene i never believed her i always sat there going.
• 25:46
  Ashley: She's lying i think that's sort of ambiguity yeah that.
• 25:50
  Oslowe: That that's a me problem you know.
• 25:52
  Ashley: No there is there is a layer of ambiguity to it because you can't trust
• 25:55
  Ashley: her because she's a she's a drunk and she hasn't told i mean and and listen
• 25:59
  Ashley: it's she's not the most reliable person to relay this story so it's understandable
• 26:07
  Ashley: that you're not going to necessarily she shouldn't be and she and it's understandable
• 26:10
  Ashley: that you're not going to be able to trust her um i think that layer of it,
• 26:15
  Ashley: makes it even more scary because you don't know exactly like
• 26:19
  Ashley: you were saying like if it's justified or not like later on i
• 26:22
  Ashley: think i think in some of the other i was reading about
• 26:25
  Ashley: it a little bit like it's supposed to be the thing the reason
• 26:28
  Ashley: that it got thrown out was because somebody didn't
• 26:31
  Ashley: she said somebody didn't sign a search warrant or something right when they
• 26:36
  Ashley: found him doing something to a kid or whatever and i just like i know obviously
• 26:44
  Ashley: cops are incompetent or they're really good at being bad at their jobs which
• 26:48
  Ashley: is kind of like you know six of one but it just,
• 26:52
  Ashley: i think you are supposed to on some level wonder if maybe maybe they got the
• 26:56
  Ashley: wrong guy or something that was
• 26:58
  Ashley: always the impression that i feel like people had every now and again i.
• 27:02
  Oslowe: Think it's the most intriguing thing about the original film and it is pretty
• 27:06
  Oslowe: much just thrown out in every sequel the remake does actually bring that back
• 27:11
  Oslowe: to the foreground and i appreciate the remake for that i know it gets a lot
• 27:15
  Oslowe: of hate but and i don't think it's a good movie.
• 27:17
  Ashley: But i.
• 27:19
  Oslowe: Do think it was trying to do something interesting with the backstory which
• 27:23
  Oslowe: in 1984 obviously we get a kind of, you understand in the audience, you adults,
• 27:32
  Oslowe: we know what they're insinuating,
• 27:35
  Oslowe: this sort of heavy feeling that perhaps this Kruger gentleman was interested
• 27:40
  Oslowe: in children in a way that is unwholesome.
• 27:42
  Ashley: And...
• 27:45
  Oslowe: I mean, yeah, no shit. He has a glove with knives on it. But was that before? Was that after?
• 27:50
  Oslowe: And that lack of certainty in the original film,
• 27:55
  Oslowe: that kind of vague, it almost calls up some of those Hammer films,
• 27:59
  Oslowe: where a just ghoul would sort of return from the grave and carry out righteous
• 28:06
  Oslowe: vengeance on the living.
• 28:08
  Oslowe: And I do think about that because, of course, Robert Englund wasn't the first choice to play Freddy.
• 28:13
  Oslowe: They had hired David Warner, the great fucking British character actor.
• 28:17
  Oslowe: David Warner had done screen tests,
• 28:20
  Oslowe: but then his schedule wouldn't let it happen. So they had to let him go.
• 28:24
  Oslowe: And so then they went and they got Robert Englund, who obviously was like,
• 28:27
  Oslowe: I'm going to play him like a weasel. I'm going to play him like a ferret.
• 28:31
  Oslowe: I'm going to play him like a molester. You know, he wanted to play.
• 28:35
  Oslowe: He understood that was what Wes was writing.
• 28:39
  Oslowe: And I think that's why Freddie is as scary as he is genuinely scary in the film,
• 28:45
  Oslowe: because the sadism is on full display. Like from the first fucking nightmare, he is playing with Tina.
• 28:54
  Oslowe: And he's just rule. Jason, like, whack, you know, leather face, whack.
• 29:01
  Evan: Michael Myers.
• 29:03
  Ashley: This guy. Yeah.
• 29:05
  Oslowe: This guy. Michael Myers.
• 29:06
  Ashley: Stab.
• 29:07
  Oslowe: This guy, though. Get him and Pinhead together from Hellraiser.
• 29:12
  Evan: As you were talking about that, it just made me think, too, just the idea that
• 29:15
  Evan: the killer is a potential former, you know,
• 29:20
  Evan: molester and murderer of children is such a scary proposition in a movie in
• 29:25
  Evan: the 1980s just on its face.
• 29:28
  Evan: I just like to think about that. That's crazy. and then
• 29:31
  Evan: but like i think about a movie like you know halloween and i
• 29:33
  Evan: and you know some analysis on it would say it's about kind of like the fear
• 29:37
  Evan: of the white suburbia like you're safe but now there's this guy who's coming
• 29:41
  Evan: and killing you whereas in this it sort of brings in that aspect of like these
• 29:46
  Evan: people live in a fairly you know nice suburb and things are as things are okay but.
• 29:51
  Oslowe: At what cost.
• 29:52
  Evan: Right exactly exactly because.
• 29:56
  Oslowe: Because there was an aberrant thing in the neighborhood, and mommy took care of it.
• 30:02
  Oslowe: It is a movie about the sins of the parents being visited upon the child,
• 30:08
  Oslowe: literally, in this case.
• 30:10
  Oslowe: Honestly, I'm sorry that we didn't get something with Glenn's parents connecting
• 30:17
  Oslowe: them to what had happened.
• 30:18
  Oslowe: You know, that we didn't see more from the adults, sort of this,
• 30:23
  Oslowe: hey, Mitch, yeah, how's it going? You know, this shared secret.
• 30:28
  Oslowe: But it was a $700,000 quickie.
• 30:32
  Oslowe: It was a made-for-TV thriller that they threw a lot of money into the blood
• 30:36
  Oslowe: because why not? Yeah. It worked.
• 30:40
  Ashley: It did. It really comes in rock.
• 30:41
  Evan: Let me ask you both another thing. This is this kind of maybe I only ask this
• 30:45
  Evan: because I just saw Scream and I think I mentioned I was reading a listening
• 30:48
  Evan: to this book about the the Scream and it's sort of, you know,
• 30:54
  Evan: impact on like the 90s horror, you know, era.
• 30:57
  Evan: But in that movie, it's famous for the fact that like the Drew Barrymore character
• 31:02
  Evan: is spoiler killed in the very first opening long scene.
• 31:06
  Evan: and you could also argue that in this movie one
• 31:09
  Evan: of the quote-unquote main characters is killed pretty abruptly
• 31:12
  Evan: and early on in the movie which i think almost set
• 31:16
  Evan: the table for something like scream later on also obviously a wes craven film
• 31:21
  Evan: whereas typically you don't see that early on in a movie like the early kill
• 31:25
  Evan: and if it is it's something like the backstory like you know mike myers like
• 31:29
  Evan: why does he do what he does because he killed his sister when he was a little
• 31:32
  Evan: kid and he flipped any, you know, flipped out.
• 31:34
  Evan: Whereas in this it's kind of a like what do I call it? Sort of like like starts that,
• 31:41
  Evan: trend i don't know.
• 31:43
  Oslowe: It's it's an outlier
• 31:46
  Oslowe: from the norm in that it does
• 31:49
  Oslowe: play with giving us a chance
• 31:52
  Oslowe: to get to know tina before nancy even
• 31:56
  Oslowe: shows up and tina's blonde she's it's
• 31:59
  Oslowe: amanda vice who was very very pretty and personable
• 32:03
  Oslowe: and just easy to like and so you go oh that's that's your buffy that's your
• 32:09
  Oslowe: girl that's that's the girl right and there's her friend with the frizzy hair
• 32:13
  Oslowe: you know if if this movie wasn't a classic you know when when you guys grew up it wasn't already,
• 32:21
  Oslowe: set those tropes they he was playing with them the same way that he wouldn't
• 32:27
  Oslowe: scream it's just that with scream by then we were sort of going oh okay okay
• 32:32
  Oslowe: with nightmare on elm street though the tropes were still fresh i mean what
• 32:37
  Oslowe: psycho was only 20 years earlier yeah 67.
• 32:40
  Ashley: Yeah i was gonna i was gonna say because he really i mean he shocked a hell
• 32:44
  Ashley: out of people with that with you know within the first.
• 32:47
  Oslowe: I mean a little bit of the film yeah yeah you can't beat that that rug getting you can argue that.
• 32:55
  Evan: Might also be one of the reasons why the film did so well you know in the box
• 32:59
  Evan: offices like these kind of movies where you see it and you're like oh i can't
• 33:02
  Evan: believe like that you're not going to believe what they do.
• 33:06
  Oslowe: You have to see it.
• 33:08
  Evan: Just like Scream was supposed to be a bomb, and then all of a sudden it took
• 33:11
  Evan: off. I think this is one of those same cases.
• 33:14
  Oslowe: Everybody was talking about Scream when that movie came out.
• 33:18
  Oslowe: People are like, oh, yeah, that's really good. And you're just like,
• 33:21
  Oslowe: okay, shit, I better go see it. Yeah, no.
• 33:23
  Oslowe: But Nightmare on Elm Street, I mean, I don't know if anyone could have even dreamed,
• 33:31
  Oslowe: freddie would take on what he would you know that there there was a 1-800 line
• 33:38
  Oslowe: where you could call to have robert england's voice tell you a scary story,
• 33:45
  Oslowe: like that was a thing you know
• 33:48
  Oslowe: there was a kid and that was his make a wish he's dying of leukemia i want to
• 33:53
  Oslowe: meet freddie krueger i don't want to meet robert england i want to meet freddie
• 33:57
  Oslowe: krueger the child yeah but he's funny you know he's he's a funny guy he would
• 34:04
  Oslowe: have had a podcast i think what's.
• 34:05
  Evan: Even scarier is the uh i saw why they chose his green and red sweater and apparently
• 34:10
  Evan: craven had looked up that it.
• 34:12
  Oslowe: Was like the.
• 34:12
  Evan: Colors that would mess with your head the most like you know like the dress the.
• 34:17
  Oslowe: Right the.
• 34:17
  Evan: White you know the what color is this dress like it's kind of the same thing
• 34:21
  Evan: and it just messes with people but it's like the most iconic aspect of like
• 34:25
  Evan: really i mean that and like.
• 34:27
  Oslowe: Christmas that too red and green he's like yeah I read a thing where this guy
• 34:32
  Oslowe: talked about how red and green if they're close together that makes people uncomfortable
• 34:35
  Oslowe: it's like it just makes me think of Christmas I don't know what you're thinking about Wes like,
• 34:40
  Oslowe: he was like so into this yeah red and green oh we're all kind of going,
• 34:48
  Oslowe: I
• 34:48
  Evan: Think arguably if you were to ask people just randomly like what the first person
• 34:54
  Evan: that comes their mind when they think of like a slasher killer i gotta think
• 34:57
  Evan: that freight kreuger is numero uno on that list oh.
• 35:00
  Oslowe: You think jason i think jason i think jason wins i.
• 35:04
  Ashley: Do michael myers is up there too i think yeah.
• 35:07
  Oslowe: I mean look mike's the og nothing but
• 35:10
  Oslowe: respect but i really feel like jason
• 35:14
  Oslowe: has a lasting ability that none of the other slashes have really had um and
• 35:22
  Oslowe: freddie probably comes the closest to and which is why we got the really not
• 35:26
  Oslowe: great film with both of them but it is fun but not good it is fun but it's not good.
• 35:33
  Evan: There aren't that many kills you know like i think of like a lot of slashes like there's lots.
• 35:40
  Oslowe: Of killing.
• 35:41
  Evan: You know and this there isn't really a lot of killing yeah three johnny depp.
• 35:47
  Oslowe: It's a small body count and the mom i guess the mom yeah.
• 35:52
  Evan: Three kids and then the mom later and then um but of the of them what would
• 35:59
  Evan: be your i know maybe this is a for the end of the episode but what's your what
• 36:02
  Evan: do you think the best one of them is.
• 36:05
  Ashley: I think it's got to be Glenn. I think the blood fountain going up into the ceiling
• 36:10
  Ashley: is just, we don't see, because we don't really see what happened in his dream.
• 36:14
  Ashley: They never take us inside of his head, which is fine.
• 36:16
  Ashley: I don't think there's much going on in there anyway, but he just doesn't get that impression.
• 36:21
  Ashley: Yeah. I don't want to see what's happening there, but the effects and the,
• 36:25
  Ashley: just the visual impact of that.
• 36:28
  Ashley: And then his mom, like finally, finally there's an adult in the room who sees this absolute,
• 36:35
  Ashley: fat shit insanity but then still somehow i don't know do they just think she's
• 36:40
  Ashley: hysterical that's i don't know we can get into that later why that doesn't result
• 36:43
  Ashley: in them yeah specifically.
• 36:45
  Evan: But what about you ozl what's your.
• 36:47
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 36:48
  Oslowe: I mean honestly like glenn's is
• 36:51
  Oslowe: iconic for a reason i mean you know crib
• 36:54
  Oslowe: from sam ramey and have a couple gallons of blood yes
• 36:57
  Oslowe: but tina's death has real
• 37:00
  Oslowe: impact um for me like i
• 37:04
  Oslowe: think that the genuine terror of
• 37:07
  Oslowe: that sequence you know for both her
• 37:10
  Oslowe: and rod that's a that it's a
• 37:13
  Oslowe: really good scene um where she's being dragged
• 37:16
  Oslowe: up the wall and and and it's played completely straight and it is scary and
• 37:24
  Oslowe: tense glenn's death to me has always kind of felt slapsticky i love it but it's
• 37:30
  Oslowe: slapstick and so tina's tina's demise for me is is the better,
• 37:36
  Oslowe: uh sequence because i just think there's a lot more going on i.
• 37:40
  Ashley: Mean the way they shot that is really crazy too like they had they made like
• 37:43
  Ashley: a rotating room and everything for it like yeah.
• 37:47
  Oslowe: They use it for both scenes it's both tina's sliding along the ceiling and glenn
• 37:51
  Oslowe: gets pulled through the bed it was the same the same thing and they just redressed it.
• 37:56
  Ashley: See that yeah and that That makes sense. Do you happen to know if that particular
• 37:59
  Ashley: high school set has been used in a bunch of other...
• 38:03
  Ashley: movies because it looks like three that i can think of off the top.
• 38:07
  Oslowe: Of my head like i know that but i am
• 38:10
  Oslowe: almost positive that if we look it up it'll be
• 38:12
  Oslowe: the one that's in the valley that was also used on buffy it was also used in
• 38:17
  Oslowe: strange behavior disturbing behavior it was also used like yeah like there's
• 38:22
  Oslowe: a couple local la uh buildings that get reutilized a lot and i think that might
• 38:28
  Oslowe: be what you think it is yeah.
• 38:31
  Evan: A note that i thought that was crazy this is kind of
• 38:34
  Evan: related to it so the they found the place that they used
• 38:36
  Evan: to film like the boiler room scenes was in the basement of
• 38:39
  Evan: a jail and a year after they filmed it
• 38:42
  Evan: apparently the jail was shut down and the
• 38:45
  Evan: partly because the boiler room just had like asbestos everywhere so apparently
• 38:49
  Evan: they you know were just in there breathing asbestos for however many days oh
• 38:53
  Evan: no not good but i think you're right about the school i didn't see a note about
• 38:58
  Evan: it but to me i think it's i think it's called i think they also filmed um grease
• 39:02
  Evan: they're pretty in pink it.
• 39:04
  Ashley: Reminded me of grease yeah grease was the first one i thought of i was thinking maybe buffy um.
• 39:10
  Evan: Just like the most perfect iconic with.
• 39:13
  Ashley: The big arch yeah like this is what a high school looks like yeah.
• 39:18
  Oslowe: In southern california.
• 39:19
  Ashley: Yeah no i work in a high school they do not look like that.
• 39:23
  Evan: Yeah i think the the so the um
• 39:27
  Evan: so to bring it back like to the mother and some of
• 39:29
  Evan: the other like well there's two things and maybe they're kind of related
• 39:32
  Evan: because you mentioned sort of the mother being hysterical and this is kind of
• 39:36
  Evan: a trope in a lot of horror films and especially with nancy and her parents sort
• 39:42
  Evan: of not believing her you know what's going on in her life and her mom takes
• 39:45
  Evan: her to that like sleep center and they do the you know strap her up and the whole thing oh.
• 39:50
  Oslowe: Yeah with charles fleischer as.
• 39:53
  Evan: It reminds me a lot of like the exorcist when they're doing like lots
• 39:56
  Evan: of tests on the little girl but to me it plays on the trope of sort of like
• 40:00
  Evan: the historical the historical the hysterical not the historical the historically
• 40:05
  Evan: hysterical you know woman or girl where you know nothing she says can be trusted
• 40:10
  Evan: when it's ironically like the mother who can't be trusted in any sense when
• 40:14
  Evan: we should be trusting the.
• 40:15
  Oslowe: Grown-ups don't believe.
• 40:17
  Evan: You yeah.
• 40:17
  Oslowe: The grownups don't believe you. And that's the big fear, too.
• 40:24
  Oslowe: It's both the truism of a teenager. They don't fucking understand.
• 40:28
  Oslowe: But it's also the fear. They're not going to listen when it matters, right?
• 40:32
  Oslowe: I know that was a big, big one for me. Oh, yeah.
• 40:35
  Oslowe: Yeah, no, actually, I love the sleep center sequence, and I'm glad you brought
• 40:39
  Oslowe: that up, partially because I love Charles Flesher, who plays the doctor,
• 40:42
  Oslowe: and of course, he was the voice of the crypt keeper for Tales from the Crypt,
• 40:47
  Oslowe: and is very memorable from Zodiac as the man who has a basement. I do.
• 40:55
  Oslowe: And also, Tales from the Crypt presents Demon Knight, where he played Wally,
• 41:00
  Oslowe: the friendly mailman. That's a terrific one.
• 41:02
  Oslowe: But, Smirk, you were starting to say something that I interrupted you, and I'm sorry.
• 41:06
  Ashley: It couldn't have been that important because I don't remember what it was.
• 41:12
  Oslowe: I like that you brought up, though, The Exorcist, which, without question,
• 41:15
  Oslowe: one of the most important horror films of the 70s.
• 41:18
  Oslowe: And so Craven would have been very aware of the fact that he was treading on
• 41:23
  Oslowe: some well-trod ground doing that sequence.
• 41:26
  Oslowe: But I think it adds to the importance of that sort of central conceit of these
• 41:34
  Oslowe: kids kind of are on their own.
• 41:36
  Oslowe: And more than in a lot of other slasher films where there really is that whole
• 41:41
  Oslowe: sort of lifeline of an adult, you know, of a cop, of a counselor,
• 41:45
  Oslowe: of whatever, Nancy's on her own.
• 41:48
  Oslowe: And and she's such a fucking great final girl.
• 41:55
  Oslowe: Like, I'm sorry, Laurie Strode, but Nancy Thompson is pretty dope.
• 42:01
  Ashley: Yeah, because she just she figures it out with every piece of information she has so quickly.
• 42:07
  Ashley: Like, she's the only one putting pieces together.
• 42:09
  Ashley: She's the only one that's actually like making like in the beginning,
• 42:12
  Ashley: Tina is kind of interested in hearing if other people have had bad dreams.
• 42:16
  Ashley: so she doesn't get to live long enough to pursue this really the
• 42:19
  Ashley: fact that none of these kids are like of course the boys don't talk to each
• 42:22
  Ashley: other about it because feelings boys can have nightmares too but
• 42:25
  Ashley: but yeah i'm just i'm not going to talk about it because it's fine it's
• 42:28
  Ashley: whatever i'm a man um but then the thing
• 42:31
  Ashley: that struck like the thing that bugs me is the
• 42:35
  Ashley: fact that even after his mother
• 42:38
  Ashley: sees the fountain of blood and he's like
• 42:40
  Ashley: suddenly for like three seconds it's
• 42:43
  Ashley: the bed that eats and he just gets like sucked into there he
• 42:48
  Ashley: just all this happens is mom sees it and i'm only
• 42:51
  Ashley: assuming that they think she's hysterical because nancy's dad
• 42:55
  Ashley: is there a second leader the cops show up and and they're just like i don't
• 42:59
  Ashley: know what happened this is the craziest shit i've ever seen and then as he talks
• 43:03
  Ashley: to his daughter and she's like i know what happened actually and i'm gonna catch
• 43:07
  Ashley: the guy come on over and he has like fucking gomer over there just staring at
• 43:11
  Ashley: the house and not and not being of any help.
• 43:13
  Ashley: So like, yeah, they didn't think the parents would listen. They were absolutely fucking right.
• 43:16
  Ashley: They didn't. They were completely useless the entire time.
• 43:20
  Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Like in a lot of those other films, there is a cop or someone investigating
• 43:25
  Evan: that does seem to have an investment.
• 43:27
  Evan: Like his same character in Black Christmas, he has an investment in trying to help them.
• 43:32
  Evan: Where in this, he doesn't have that investment into helping them.
• 43:37
  Evan: And I think it's, you said Asla before, it's like the kids are literally on
• 43:40
  Evan: their, or maybe you both said, like they just are on their own.
• 43:42
  Evan: They don't have anyone to help them. and which.
• 43:47
  Ashley: Is insane because it's what it's his daughter's friends three of his daughter's
• 43:50
  Ashley: friends have been killed within the space of a couple of days and he's.
• 43:53
  Evan: Like i.
• 43:54
  Ashley: Don't i don't know go.
• 43:56
  Oslowe: Go go lay down honey geez.
• 43:58
  Ashley: And also does she never like visit with her her dad because he's only there
• 44:03
  Ashley: like after after somebody gets killed is when when she sees him or like when he he follows she.
• 44:07
  Oslowe: Stays with zombie mom all.
• 44:09
  Evan: The time.
• 44:10
  Ashley: All the time drunk mom who's like never there their parents are divorced and
• 44:14
  Ashley: he's like well you're the woman you take care of the kid even though you're clearly wasted he's.
• 44:18
  Oslowe: Always at the office.
• 44:19
  Evan: Something that maybe does relates also to the mom and
• 44:22
  Evan: i don't know how another sort of metaphor to i
• 44:25
  Evan: guess also just kind of like one of those mcguffin type of situations when
• 44:28
  Evan: nancy comes home and the mom had put bars on all the windows and
• 44:32
  Evan: like change the lock on the front door and it's like locking it from
• 44:35
  Evan: the inside like where you can't you know leave the house and
• 44:38
  Evan: she's drunk and you can't find the key and all and all that it's it's like this
• 44:42
  Evan: extra layer of you know that like white suburbia we need to have keys and locks
• 44:47
  Evan: on our door it's almost like she's more afraid exurbia is she trying to prevent
• 44:52
  Evan: nancy from leaving or is she trying to prevent someone from coming inside and.
• 44:56
  Oslowe: Is it the same thing.
• 44:58
  Evan: For her.
• 44:59
  Oslowe: And yeah no it's it's it's really good because it's really fraught and especially
• 45:04
  Oslowe: for the middle of the 80s to suddenly have your house covered with bars you
• 45:10
  Oslowe: know i feel like that's it's you know it's not without a vacuum it's not in
• 45:16
  Oslowe: a vacuum it's it's not without a vacuum.
• 45:20
  Ashley: Yeah i know what you're saying there's there's there's yeah there's something there.
• 45:25
  Oslowe: I mean for me as a kid from that
• 45:28
  Oslowe: era you know only a little bit younger than the protagonists of the film like
• 45:34
  Oslowe: i remember watching that movie and thinking like oh yeah man like the neighbors
• 45:40
  Oslowe: that have that kind of bars on their windows like we never see those fucking
• 45:44
  Oslowe: weirdos you know this is in dc I mean,
• 45:47
  Oslowe: so like that was just there were some houses that had like Fort Knox bars,
• 45:51
  Oslowe: but you didn't think about them.
• 45:54
  Ashley: Yeah, it's really it's a good it's a good sort of analogy for a lot of.
• 45:58
  Ashley: Well, just all the fucking everything there. She puts all these bars and shit
• 46:03
  Ashley: on the windows and the locks on the doors and everything.
• 46:05
  Ashley: I think they're assuming this whole time that the killer is someone that they
• 46:10
  Ashley: don't know. Like, they're still assuming it's like some human man,
• 46:14
  Ashley: presumably, that is from somewhere else.
• 46:16
  Ashley: So they're becoming more insular and they're staying in their house and everything.
• 46:20
  Ashley: But the danger is what they actually created themselves.
• 46:24
  Ashley: There's, yeah. It's what they actually need protection from.
• 46:28
  Oslowe: It's such an exciting idea because it's such it's so ripe you know oh they thought
• 46:37
  Oslowe: they were doing the right thing and so they created this giant nightmare.
• 46:43
  Evan: And even when the mother gives her sort of her sort of uh testimony to her child
• 46:49
  Evan: as to what you know she pulls a little of course she's also saving the glove
• 46:53
  Evan: in her house which is also really fucking weird to begin with,
• 46:57
  Evan: really like that she has she's like
• 47:00
  Evan: yeah i just kept this like maybe if she hadn't kept it there he wouldn't
• 47:02
  Evan: have known what house to go to you idiot i don't know um
• 47:06
  Evan: but like when she's giving this whole like testimony about it she doesn't even
• 47:11
  Evan: really have any there's no like real sense of self reflection on their actions
• 47:17
  Evan: and her sort of responses let's put bars on the door you know to keep Freddy
• 47:21
  Evan: Krueger away. The boogeyman.
• 47:23
  Oslowe: It's okay, honey. Mommy killed him. Mommy killed him.
• 47:28
  Evan: She's not even phased by that statement either. He's like, were you drunk, mom, when you did that?
• 47:33
  Ashley: Do you think that's why she drinks?
• 47:35
  Evan: Maybe.
• 47:36
  Oslowe: I mean, I think it's kind of implied, especially since once Freddie is gone,
• 47:42
  Oslowe: Mom is cured. I just think I won't be drinking anymore.
• 47:45
  Oslowe: I just don't feel like it. You know, that wonderful little, huh?
• 47:48
  Evan: Well, speaking of that, so I want to talk about the end of the film because
• 47:55
  Evan: there's things, different takes, opinions, thoughts.
• 48:00
  Evan: And let's say excluding the sequels, which completely changed the ending of the film.
• 48:05
  Evan: So that's why you kind of have to take this film on its own and not as part
• 48:10
  Evan: of its, you know, seven or eight, seven part franchise.
• 48:13
  Evan: So at the very end, we have, you know, the mother is killed in her bed.
• 48:19
  Evan: The father witnesses this.
• 48:21
  Evan: Still doesn't seem to be like, oh, oh, so you were right all along.
• 48:25
  Evan: Like, doesn't give her any due credit still. and then we sort of have this moment
• 48:28
  Evan: where nancy leaves the house and she gets into the car
• 48:32
  Evan: and she with her friends that are murdered that we
• 48:35
  Evan: know johnny depp and and so forth and then the the roof of the car convertible
• 48:39
  Evan: has the the freddy black uh black green and red you know sweater and then the
• 48:45
  Evan: mom is in the front of the front of the door like kind of like not a care in
• 48:48
  Evan: the world not you know quit drinking and then she gets sucked through the the
• 48:52
  Evan: uh you know with the very obvious dummy but.
• 48:54
  Oslowe: One of the worst special effects.
• 48:56
  Evan: Well it wasn't the original ending of.
• 48:58
  Oslowe: That decade no yeah.
• 49:00
  Evan: The original ending was for her to just do for nothing to happen to her.
• 49:04
  Ashley: Yeah it's just it's because i mean and obviously there's sequels and i think she shows up.
• 49:09
  Evan: In like the.
• 49:10
  Ashley: Third one or something nancy does so it's like all right
• 49:13
  Ashley: so what was that there but yeah they get into the
• 49:15
  Ashley: the freddy striped car and that's
• 49:18
  Ashley: supposed to aside from the fact that all these people are dead and they're
• 49:21
  Ashley: here um but the
• 49:24
  Ashley: fake out at the end is pretty consistent with the genre for the time too you
• 49:31
  Ashley: know yes like so you're on the on the boat just kidding got you i was in the
• 49:35
  Ashley: lake like that's starting with carrie yeah yeah so do you think that's why they added that just to.
• 49:45
  Oslowe: I know that Wes wanted it to end with, and she just drives off with her friends
• 49:52
  Oslowe: into the fog, and it's a little bit weird, because that's what Wes thought was
• 49:57
  Oslowe: a good ending to a movie about dreams.
• 49:59
  Oslowe: Bob Shea hated that. My recollection from reading is that Bob really needed
• 50:05
  Oslowe: it to have a stinger, because that's how you end a horror movie in 1984, is you have a stinger.
• 50:12
  Oslowe: and so I guess they tried it a bunch of different ways and what we've got I
• 50:19
  Oslowe: believe the quote from Wes was that we all thought that the mom being dragged
• 50:23
  Oslowe: through the door looked so ridiculous we had to use it,
• 50:28
  Oslowe: sort of a you know what fine you want something Bob here here are you happy now there ending it with.
• 50:35
  Evan: The girls jumping rope is just perfect like that is the perfect.
• 50:39
  Oslowe: Ending it is a great great moment yeah i.
• 50:44
  Evan: Mean if you stop watching the movie.
• 50:45
  Oslowe: 20 seconds earlier.
• 50:46
  Evan: You can have the ending you you want yeah but but do you think that in his mind
• 50:51
  Evan: the idea was like you don't know if like are we still in the dream.
• 50:56
  Oslowe: And you.
• 50:57
  Evan: Know i'm some kind of staying it's like it's kind of staying the obvious.
• 51:00
  Oslowe: I absolutely think he wanted that though i mean i really,
• 51:04
  Oslowe: that's exactly what he was going for it's um i also wouldn't be surprised i
• 51:10
  Oslowe: have a a strong suspicion that Wes Craven might have been a big fan of Let's Scare Jessica to Death,
• 51:16
  Oslowe: which I'm guessing from your blank faces you haven't seen.
• 51:21
  Oslowe: So we'll have to do that one next. Because talk about a movie that...
• 51:24
  Oslowe: Let's Scare Jessica to Death, 1971.
• 51:28
  Oslowe: It is a movie about three people from New York City, maybe, who move out to
• 51:34
  Oslowe: the countryside to get away from it all, and things go there from there.
• 51:41
  Oslowe: And it's possibly one of my like four favorite movies of all time.
• 51:47
  Oslowe: It is, I think, one of the most important and uniquely American.
• 51:52
  Oslowe: Sorry, the cat is full wilding right now.
• 51:57
  Oslowe: Important horror films, American horror films of the 70s. Like,
• 52:01
  Oslowe: Let's Scare Jessica to Death, Messiah of Evil, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
• 52:06
  Oslowe: Those are like the sort of American horror story 70s.
• 52:10
  Oslowe: like but that's that's my own convoluted um personal mythology but um i think
• 52:19
  Oslowe: that nightmare on elm street did it different um,
• 52:22
  Oslowe: And it did it different at a time when there was a lot of same-same.
• 52:26
  Oslowe: And I just don't think we can ignore how iconic that look is.
• 52:33
  Oslowe: I mean, Robert Englund's makeup and the hat and the silhouette, it's phenomenal stuff.
• 52:40
  Evan: It took forever for him to get in and out of the makeup, apparently,
• 52:43
  Evan: and he would just like rip it off his face.
• 52:46
  Evan: Like, his face was completely raw from it. from it i think it said it took.
• 52:50
  Oslowe: Like three.
• 52:51
  Evan: Hour a two hours like a long time and it is.
• 52:54
  Oslowe: Liquid latex is really uncomfortable it is.
• 52:57
  Evan: Supremely scary i mean it is not uh like you think about other ones where there's
• 53:03
  Evan: a mask like he is like he doesn't have a mask because he's scary without it.
• 53:08
  Oslowe: Which i think is also yeah space well i
• 53:11
  Oslowe: mean and that's that really sets freddie apart he's not
• 53:14
  Oslowe: some giant mumbling hillbilly you know
• 53:17
  Oslowe: with the sack he's this feral snarky
• 53:21
  Oslowe: he knows your name yeah i mean
• 53:24
  Oslowe: that alone like just gives him that extra level
• 53:27
  Oslowe: of he knows your fucking name
• 53:30
  Oslowe: but yeah no i mean he was he was a completely different slasher and changed
• 53:36
  Oslowe: the landscape of we wouldn't have some of the the horror villains like the wish
• 53:41
  Oslowe: master without freddie not a chance of hell terrifier not without freddie we wouldn't have had a.
• 53:47
  Evan: Home alone either because of the little booby trap inside the house no i don't know.
• 53:52
  Ashley: I like when she said when uh when her and glenn.
• 53:55
  Oslowe: Are talking survival yeah.
• 53:56
  Ashley: It's like i think we all.
• 53:57
  Oslowe: Are nancy.
• 53:58
  Ashley: To some extent i just love.
• 53:59
  Oslowe: When the hammer falls down and just.
• 54:01
  Evan: Nails him right like in the you know the chest or something.
• 54:04
  Oslowe: Yeah you also notice though that she tells her dad in 10 minutes Come wake me
• 54:11
  Oslowe: up in 10 minutes. And then she goes and starts setting all the booby traps.
• 54:14
  Oslowe: And you go, oh, I think this edit.
• 54:17
  Oslowe: I think maybe this was earlier. And we're just going to ignore how long it takes
• 54:22
  Oslowe: you to file the light bulb to make one of the most ingenious home landmines I've ever seen used.
• 54:30
  Ashley: Yeah, that's that's insane.
• 54:32
  Evan: I just.
• 54:33
  Ashley: What was she? What was she like that? I don't think you could get that book
• 54:37
  Ashley: at most public school libraries at this point. i.
• 54:42
  Evan: Also kept thinking about like you know her knowing approximately how long and
• 54:45
  Evan: i think they show her in the dream looking at a watch but like i thought in dreams.
• 54:49
  Ashley: You don't like see.
• 54:50
  Evan: Your watch i don't know.
• 54:51
  Ashley: Some people i've read about this i've read
• 54:55
  Ashley: about this most people usually you can't you can't read you can't perceive numbers
• 54:58
  Ashley: because the part of your brain that processes language like written language
• 55:02
  Ashley: and and symbols like that it's just not really there and and like doing stuff
• 55:07
  Ashley: when you're asleep it's like this is my time off sometimes you can but that
• 55:11
  Ashley: did stand out to me too oh so you have your,
• 55:15
  Ashley: in your dream interesting and i mean it worked it worked i don't know why they didn't just i guess,
• 55:23
  Ashley: dream time is usually different though in movies right like it takes
• 55:26
  Ashley: so much longer like a like five minutes in a dream it's like it's like a second
• 55:30
  Ashley: or something yeah the time is linear yeah yeah yeah it's kind of all over the
• 55:36
  Ashley: place the thing i do think that kind of like the the scary elements of this
• 55:42
  Ashley: movie there's a lot of them that we've talked about i think,
• 55:45
  Ashley: from the other side of it if the parents were at all like
• 55:48
  Ashley: interested in keeping their kids alive the thing that would be
• 55:51
  Ashley: scary to them would be that like when they're asleep in
• 55:53
  Ashley: their dreams is the one time they can't be protected and that's
• 55:56
  Ashley: like as i'm watching it as somebody who's thinking like oh i have a kid like
• 56:00
  Ashley: that's fucking scary like somebody who specifically wants to kill children obviously
• 56:05
  Ashley: scary but then they come back after you killed them and they and they want to
• 56:10
  Ashley: kill him the one time that you can't do anything about it that's fucking yeah
• 56:13
  Ashley: it's incredibly frightening well.
• 56:15
  Oslowe: And all of us as as parents i believe we've all soothed a child from a nightmare.
• 56:22
  Ashley: Or
• 56:23
  Oslowe: You know i know i have seen one of my kids responding as if they're in a nightmare
• 56:29
  Oslowe: and that urge to sort of reach out and be so okay buddy yeah you're okay you
• 56:34
  Oslowe: know it's dreams or yeah that's that's some scary shit i don't have jurisdiction there.
• 56:40
  Ashley: Yeah yeah yeah the whole thing is kind of just the stuff that parents and people
• 56:47
  Ashley: in general might do thinking they're protecting their children and if making
• 56:53
  Ashley: so much much making them so much worse,
• 56:57
  Ashley: you can't even possibly imagine you.
• 57:00
  Evan: Know i mean i'd like to think that the problems would have been much less terrible
• 57:06
  Evan: if they all had had a little sit down and discuss their feelings and their dreams
• 57:11
  Evan: in that very first scene when they're getting into school.
• 57:13
  Ashley: That would have been so much helpful.
• 57:14
  Evan: But you know rod isn't going to do that he doesn't talk about his feelings with his friends.
• 57:19
  Ashley: Yeah no and it's going to be at least another five years to six years before
• 57:23
  Ashley: people start like joking about therapy in movies like that so they're definitely
• 57:27
  Ashley: not going to talk about their feelings, which is a shame.
• 57:30
  Evan: Did they mention therapy? No. Okay.
• 57:33
  Ashley: No.
• 57:33
  Evan: I think I've watched another movie just yesterday where they mentioned therapy, so...
• 57:39
  Evan: Wouldn't it make sense in this?
• 57:41
  Ashley: Apparently they don't have stop, drop, and roll either, at least not until the
• 57:44
  Ashley: following year. He's hauling ass up those stairs.
• 57:49
  Oslowe: That was a prolonged burn, too.
• 57:51
  Ashley: That was a long burn.
• 57:52
  Oslowe: Whoever did that stunt, kudos.
• 57:54
  Evan: I also love when they're following him upstairs and there's the footprints of
• 57:59
  Evan: fire, the little fire footprints.
• 58:02
  Evan: It's like the little stuff like that just adds to the dimension of just...
• 58:06
  Evan: this guy seems very real.
• 58:09
  Evan: Like he was walking with the fire and it was just creating these little craters. I don't know.
• 58:14
  Oslowe: No, look, Wes Craven was a really, really visually inventive director.
• 58:19
  Oslowe: And I think he had some phenomenal ideas. And this is one of the times where
• 58:23
  Oslowe: he was able to tell the story he wanted to in a way where I don't think he was
• 58:29
  Oslowe: too upset with the, the final, the final version.
• 58:33
  Evan: I think I saw something that the, the glove that they created actually did cut
• 58:39
  Evan: someone at some point like they had like a stunt glove and uh actually did like
• 58:43
  Evan: slice someone and that's uh and.
• 58:46
  Oslowe: They had a.
• 58:46
  Evan: Hero yeah that's such a good weapon too
• 58:49
  Evan: like the i don't know about you but one of the most horrifying sounds
• 58:52
  Evan: to me is probably to most people is like the sound
• 58:55
  Evan: of like scraping like you know like a fork on a plate or something like that
• 58:59
  Evan: like the sound in my head immediately when you in the very first scene when
• 59:04
  Evan: he's going after tina is just that to me is almost scarier than anything like
• 59:09
  Evan: just like this having to run away from that sound i don't know maybe that's just me but it's like no.
• 59:14
  Ashley: No it really is it makes you it sets you in this like edge yeah you're just
• 59:21
  Ashley: total unease from the minute the credits start that opening credits sequence
• 59:27
  Ashley: is fantastic it's just so like intense yeah.
• 59:31
  Evan: We didn't even talk about the music like the synthy music
• 59:34
  Evan: in this also is oh my god i mean
• 59:37
  Evan: i think of all the iconic sort of horror you
• 59:40
  Evan: know uh interludes or the like theme music if you will like the synth in this
• 59:45
  Evan: is just uh i mean it's also 1994 so it's different than you know halloween in
• 59:50
  Evan: the 70s it's not john carpenter like you know banging out something but it's
• 59:55
  Evan: like has its place as far as the iconic uh horror music.
• 1:00:00
  Oslowe: No, it's a great score. It's one of the Bernstein's.
• 1:00:03
  Evan: Charles Bernstein, maybe?
• 1:00:05
  Oslowe: Yeah, I think so. Terrific score. The Freddie theme is it.
• 1:00:09
  Evan: Right. I think that must be what they always call them.
• 1:00:12
  Oslowe: Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.
• 1:00:16
  Evan: And then what's the nursery rhyme? It's like the one to buckle my shoe,
• 1:00:21
  Evan: but they make it as the Freddie Kruger.
• 1:00:23
  Ashley: Oh, yeah.
• 1:00:24
  Oslowe: And they changed it a little bit, yeah. And it's a great rhyme,
• 1:00:28
  Oslowe: too. It's like genuinely creepy and it's catchy the way that a rhythm needs
• 1:00:35
  Oslowe: to be, you know, for that kind of jump rope.
• 1:00:38
  Oslowe: So one, two, Freddy's coming for you. Three, four, go and lock the door.
• 1:00:47
  Oslowe: But we know that doesn't do anything.
• 1:00:49
  Ashley: No. And the crucifix definitely does not. I don't think that helps at all.
• 1:00:52
  Evan: I was thinking about the crucifix a few times in this and like the idea of religion.
• 1:00:57
  Evan: I didn't have much to really go on other than just sort of like the idea that
• 1:01:00
  Evan: religion just can't save you in a way that, you know, in some movies,
• 1:01:04
  Evan: like they play more on like, oh, my faith will save me.
• 1:01:06
  Evan: They don't even like bother for that, like the pretense in this.
• 1:01:10
  Evan: They just kind of visually show it to you. And it's almost like a joke.
• 1:01:14
  Oslowe: I think that's where the angry young man that Wes Craven was when he made Last
• 1:01:18
  Oslowe: House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes kind of poked through again.
• 1:01:23
  Oslowe: His kind of disdain for the idea of, oh, this will protect me,
• 1:01:27
  Oslowe: this stalwart symbol of the system, of the patriarchy, of how it's supposed to be.
• 1:01:37
  Oslowe: I think that Craven, I think he was a little bit cognizant of the dark humor
• 1:01:46
  Oslowe: in that kind of iconography.
• 1:01:49
  Ashley: Oh, I was just going to say to even like even to add on to that,
• 1:01:52
  Ashley: the way that she actually gets
• 1:01:55
  Ashley: one over on and she ends up surviving is is through an Eastern practice,
• 1:02:00
  Ashley: which is what Glenn told her about dreaming and how you take the power away
• 1:02:05
  Ashley: from what's haunting you by just ignoring it. And sorry.
• 1:02:10
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Ashley: I totally get what you're saying.
• 1:02:13
  Evan: Apparently when, um, Craven's father like left this family, his mother toward
• 1:02:18
  Evan: turned towards like a super religious Baptist faith.
• 1:02:22
  Evan: And Craven did not like that when he was in college.
• 1:02:25
  Evan: He apparently started making, he went to like a Christian school and was,
• 1:02:28
  Evan: was making, I think Wheaton college or something like that.
• 1:02:31
  Evan: And it was a religious school and he wrote some story that was against the religious doctrine.
• 1:02:37
  Evan: He was basically left with the choice of like staying and keeping with
• 1:02:40
  Evan: this faith or leaving and doing something else and
• 1:02:43
  Evan: of course we you know the rest was history he obviously did not stay thanks
• 1:02:48
  Evan: yeah and so like yeah I don't know it's been a while since I've seen some of
• 1:02:52
  Evan: his like the first couple of movies of his so I don't know how those play in
• 1:02:56
  Evan: it but to me it's sort of like you know forget religion you know forget that
• 1:02:59
  Evan: it's not not gonna play here no.
• 1:03:02
  Oslowe: I think that's definitely an accurate read I think that for Craven religion is something that,
• 1:03:11
  Oslowe: characters might try and hide behind but he's not going to give it any kind of special power.
• 1:03:18
  Oslowe: It's just not his style.
• 1:03:20
  Evan: Yeah, but I like that what you said, Sperk, that Nancy all...
• 1:03:24
  Evan: Well, maybe you didn't exactly say this, but she also doesn't give the power
• 1:03:28
  Evan: to Freddie when she locks away her fear.
• 1:03:31
  Evan: I'm not afraid of you anymore and I can make it go away.
• 1:03:36
  Evan: That's not really logical, but in some ways somehow it is.
• 1:03:40
  Ashley: Yeah, he turns into sparkles and just falls.
• 1:03:44
  Evan: Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  Ashley: Yeah.
• 1:03:47
  Evan: There's one other thing I was going to mention, but I can't think of what it
• 1:03:50
  Evan: was about Craven in the movie.
• 1:03:54
  Evan: But I think, yeah, and they filmed this in 32 days, which is also crazy, the whole thing.
• 1:04:02
  Ashley: Wow.
• 1:04:03
  Evan: I mean, they only had, you know, like you said, like just a million dollars
• 1:04:06
  Evan: after film. well i think you said it was 700 000 to actually film the movie
• 1:04:11
  Evan: to make the movie and the 500 gallons of blood they used yeah.
• 1:04:16
  Oslowe: And every drop on screen every drop on.
• 1:04:20
  Evan: Yeah they weren't gonna the waste
• 1:04:22
  Evan: any of that too and i think i mentioned briefly earlier to me like the,
• 1:04:27
  Evan: scariest visual in this that's i think maybe even might even be the poster is
• 1:04:31
  Evan: the or maybe it's not the poster actually it's like when the hand comes out
• 1:04:34
  Evan: of the the bathtub you know and i feel like i I remember seeing this when I
• 1:04:39
  Evan: was maybe nine or 10 and being like, I don't think I can take baths anymore.
• 1:04:44
  Evan: You know, like this, this really, I can't think of any movie where there's like
• 1:04:48
  Evan: such a freaky bath scene.
• 1:04:51
  Evan: the top of my head.
• 1:04:52
  Oslowe: Because it's an intrusion too because that is a private.
• 1:04:56
  Evan: Space that.
• 1:04:57
  Oslowe: Is a safe space you're in your.
• 1:04:58
  Evan: Back you don't usually see nothing.
• 1:04:59
  Oslowe: Can be in the bathtub with me.
• 1:05:02
  Evan: Like there's creepy things in bathrooms like in a mirror things happening but
• 1:05:06
  Evan: you're like literally taking a bath i can't think of any other like tub murder
• 1:05:11
  Evan: scene racking my brain well she is not murdered in this scene.
• 1:05:14
  Oslowe: No no she's stalked she's not she's not god.
• 1:05:18
  Evan: Should have grabbed his glove and then he would have lost his glove.
• 1:05:23
  Ashley: True. She could have kept it like the hat.
• 1:05:27
  Oslowe: Yeah, and she could have just kept it in the boiler down in the basement.
• 1:05:30
  Ashley: I still can't. The fact that she just pulled out this old hat out of nowhere.
• 1:05:35
  Ashley: They know she didn't have it when she goes in and they're still like, where'd you get that?
• 1:05:38
  Ashley: Like she literally just told you she pulled it out of her dream. Like stop pretending.
• 1:05:42
  Evan: Doesn't the mom put the hat in the freezer?
• 1:05:44
  Ashley: She like puts it in a drawer. I don't know. Maybe the freezer.
• 1:05:47
  Ashley: She puts it in. Yeah, in the kitchen. That shit's pretty dirty.
• 1:05:49
  Evan: You might want to wash that.
• 1:05:50
  Ashley: She just really wants to keep these things because she lied about getting rid
• 1:05:53
  Ashley: of it, too, right before that. She's like, I threw it away.
• 1:05:56
  Oslowe: She put it under a bottle of vodka. No one will find it.
• 1:05:59
  Ashley: Yeah. She probably thought she threw it away and forgot.
• 1:06:01
  Evan: Or she put the bottle of vodka under the hat with then like another to hide
• 1:06:05
  Evan: it. It would be like a nip, though.
• 1:06:06
  Evan: The full bottle, a full fifth, wouldn't fit under the...
• 1:06:09
  Ashley: Now you're Mr. Vodka.
• 1:06:13
  Evan: Like Mr. Peanut, is that what you're thinking? Like the hat's on top of the...
• 1:06:16
  Oslowe: Yeah, once she's wearing a hat.
• 1:06:18
  Ashley: It's Mr.
• 1:06:18
  Oslowe: Vodka.
• 1:06:19
  Ashley: Yeah. She's just a little guy. One thing, too, she has like the no-dos or whatever.
• 1:06:25
  Ashley: I don't know why. Why do they have like trucker pills in their cabinet in the bathroom?
• 1:06:29
  Ashley: Very strange. But also it's the 80s.
• 1:06:31
  Oslowe: From my dad to the cop.
• 1:06:33
  Ashley: Oh, that's right. But also then it's the 80s.
• 1:06:37
  Ashley: I don't know. Maybe nobody's offered her any, but she's drinking a lot of coffee.
• 1:06:42
  Ashley: I can't believe she couldn't find any Coke. I don't know. I know it's like a
• 1:06:45
  Ashley: separate neighborhood.
• 1:06:45
  Evan: Well, Rod was dead. He would have been the one for her.
• 1:06:49
  Ashley: That's true. Oh, yeah. That's why they had to take him out. He would have been the Kinect. Bummer.
• 1:06:55
  Evan: Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  Ashley: All right, people.
• 1:06:57
  Oslowe: Elk Street Connection.
• 1:06:59
  Ashley: You know, we don't see his dream either, do we?
• 1:07:01
  Evan: No.
• 1:07:02
  Oslowe: We only spend time in Tina's dream and then Nancy's dream. And it's pretty hard to tell them apart.
• 1:07:10
  Ashley: Yeah, it's a very, it's the same.
• 1:07:12
  Oslowe: And I do think that that's intentional. I think that that adds to the overall
• 1:07:17
  Oslowe: dreaminess, if you will, of the entire film.
• 1:07:23
  Evan: And just not showing like any of the male characters dreams too.
• 1:07:26
  Evan: It's almost like they're shrouded with more of a mysterious, I don't know.
• 1:07:30
  Oslowe: I mean, you could you could argue that they're doing what, you know, Clover,
• 1:07:36
  Oslowe: Professor Clover suggested, which is that we are getting too much of the women
• 1:07:42
  Oslowe: being stalked and tormented and not enough of the men, though I'd argue that
• 1:07:48
  Oslowe: both of the guys have pretty gruesome ends.
• 1:07:51
  Oslowe: It's not like, you know, they're playing with puppies.
• 1:07:54
  Ashley: Yeah, but they do feel sort of incidental to the female characters.
• 1:07:59
  Oslowe: It doesn't have the same weight. Yeah. And for as much as I love Wes Craven
• 1:08:04
  Oslowe: as a filmmaker, and I'm fascinated by him as like a philosopher,
• 1:08:07
  Oslowe: I do think that he played with the same sort of boring gender tropes that most
• 1:08:15
  Oslowe: of the filmmakers of that era did, because that was what was the scene.
• 1:08:21
  Oslowe: That was the sort of level of writing that was permitted, that was actualized.
• 1:08:27
  Oslowe: I mean, there are exceptions, obviously.
• 1:08:29
  Oslowe: But I don't think that a lot of the horror directors were really thinking outside of the patriarchy.
• 1:08:37
  Ashley: Yeah, but he did turn it on its head a little bit, though.
• 1:08:41
  Oslowe: Oh, he played with it.
• 1:08:42
  Evan: Yeah, he definitely did what he was permitted in the time. I mean,
• 1:08:46
  Evan: I don't know what I don't I didn't read anything about like how Bob Shay like
• 1:08:49
  Evan: influenced anything except for the ending.
• 1:08:51
  Evan: You wonder if he had to see it and be like, oh, yeah, you know,
• 1:08:55
  Evan: I don't know what kind of notes he was giving him.
• 1:08:57
  Evan: You know, Craven was pretty well established. He should have just told him the
• 1:09:00
  Evan: fuck off. But, you know, he had the money.
• 1:09:04
  Oslowe: That's the thing it's really hard to argue with the boss any.
• 1:09:07
  Evan: Uh any last uh notes from either of you on uh freddie.
• 1:09:12
  Oslowe: I actually struggled with uh
• 1:09:15
  Oslowe: sleep paralysis for years and there was a period when i was a young person where
• 1:09:22
  Oslowe: i would say that friday the 13th was my favorite slasher franchise but Freddy
• 1:09:28
  Oslowe: was my favorite slasher because there was something genuinely scary about Freddy.
• 1:09:35
  Oslowe: You know, like you can get away from Jason or Michael probably maybe,
• 1:09:40
  Oslowe: but you can't really get away from Freddy.
• 1:09:46
  Oslowe: And that to me is genuinely scary.
• 1:09:51
  Oslowe: He's the villain. You can't really get away from because you're going to sleep
• 1:09:55
  Oslowe: sooner or later. you're gonna sleep.
• 1:09:59
  Evan: That's true yeah you could just fly to another country how's how's uh how's
• 1:10:03
  Evan: jason gonna get there right michael myers he's gonna what he's gonna grab a bus ticket you know i.
• 1:10:09
  Oslowe: Just stay away from his sister i'm fine i.
• 1:10:11
  Evan: Think that is what makes it genuinely such a different level that
• 1:10:14
  Evan: it's like bring it back to the beginning of just like the psych the psychological
• 1:10:18
  Evan: supernatural element whereas yes michael myers is kind of supernaturally in
• 1:10:22
  Evan: the fact that he can't die i guess you could argue the same thing when they
• 1:10:26
  Evan: just go off the rails with jason and he can go to space and, you know, whatever.
• 1:10:32
  Evan: But as originally constructed, he's just sort of like an indestructible man,
• 1:10:36
  Evan: whereas this is just a specter you cannot...
• 1:10:40
  Ashley: Yeah, a vengeful spirit. That's pretty scary.
• 1:10:43
  Oslowe: Freddy starts at the next level. Most of those other guys start and they're
• 1:10:48
  Oslowe: a pretty human-ish monster.
• 1:10:52
  Oslowe: Freddy, from the get-go, is something different.
• 1:10:56
  Evan: That does make it scary.
• 1:10:57
  Ashley: I'm glad you suggested this one. This is your pick because, uh,
• 1:11:01
  Ashley: It was fun. I'm glad I had the opportunity to watch it again and actually pay
• 1:11:05
  Ashley: attention and think about it. Yes.
• 1:11:08
  Evan: There was another movie I had originally feel like maybe months ago I had mentioned to you, Oslo.
• 1:11:14
  Evan: It was the, not Babysitter Massacre, Slumber Party.
• 1:11:19
  Oslowe: Slumber Party Massacre. Oh,
• 1:11:21
  Oslowe: smart. The original film is one of the great slasher films of the 1980s.
• 1:11:30
  Oslowe: it's written by rita may brown as a
• 1:11:33
  Oslowe: satire of slasher films roger corman
• 1:11:37
  Oslowe: read the script and famously didn't get the joke
• 1:11:40
  Oslowe: so he just greenlit it as a slasher and the director the woman who got to direct
• 1:11:46
  Oslowe: it this is the only slasher franchise where all of the films have been written
• 1:11:50
  Oslowe: by women and directed by women um and the movie manages to balance what you
• 1:11:56
  Oslowe: expect from an 80s slasher,
• 1:11:59
  Oslowe: with being really fucking funny and making fun of what you expect from an 80s slasher.
• 1:12:05
  Oslowe: Honestly, Slumber Party Massacre was Scream before Scream.
• 1:12:11
  Oslowe: So... It passes the Bechdel test, too.
• 1:12:15
  Ashley: Oh, that's going on the list.
• 1:12:16
  Oslowe: Oh, it passes the Bechdel test with flying colors.
• 1:12:19
  Evan: That and Black Crisp was both, too.
• 1:12:20
  Oslowe: It also... Beautifully. Beautifully. Yeah, no. Slumber Party Massacre...
• 1:12:27
  Oslowe: The original is phenomenal. There's a sequel that is worth watching because it's just bug fuck.
• 1:12:35
  Oslowe: Slumber Party Massacre Part 2 is just insane and kind of has to be seen to be
• 1:12:40
  Oslowe: believed. It's also deeply queer.
• 1:12:43
  Oslowe: Like the first one is, but then the second one just sort of goes to the next
• 1:12:47
  Oslowe: level and says, oh, you thought that one was gay. Oh, honey.
• 1:12:51
  Oslowe: Oh, honey. And then in like 2019 or 2020,
• 1:12:56
  Oslowe: there was a made for the sci-fi channel Slumber Party Massacre that manages
• 1:13:02
  Oslowe: to be a modern update of the original film, plays with gender roles,
• 1:13:07
  Oslowe: plays with what your expectation is, and actually gives us the male-dominated
• 1:13:12
  Oslowe: version of a slumber party scene of beefcakes having pillow fights and spraying
• 1:13:19
  Oslowe: each other with like soda.
• 1:13:20
  Oslowe: while the girls go, is this what they think we do?
• 1:13:26
  Oslowe: So it's that kind of movie. So I love the Slumber Party Massacre franchises, obviously.
• 1:13:33
  Oslowe: They're a little bit campy and a little bit queer and a little bit wonderful.
• 1:13:37
  Evan: I have not seen the second or the updated or the newer version, only the original.
• 1:13:43
  Oslowe: You should. You should. I mean, the original's great.
• 1:13:46
  Oslowe: The original is amazing. Just for the ending, But, like, the other two are also
• 1:13:53
  Oslowe: very worth checking out.
• 1:13:55
  Ashley: See, that's what I, this is, this sounds like an excellent pick for me,
• 1:13:59
  Ashley: which does not surprise me, because you, you just, you just know.
• 1:14:03
  Oslowe: I got you, bud.
• 1:14:04
  Ashley: Yeah, and that's.
• 1:14:05
  Evan: Yeah, I've just added Let's Scare Jessica to Death. And then the sequels to
• 1:14:08
  Evan: Slumber Party Master to my October, well, I'll watch a horror movie,
• 1:14:12
  Evan: it doesn't have to be October, but I watch extra horror movies. know but.
• 1:14:16
  Ashley: In october i do like around the around the halloween season i do especially then like,
• 1:14:22
  Ashley: a campy horror flick like a like a kind of goofy slasher i like something that
• 1:14:28
  Ashley: it's gonna it's gonna be a little it's obviously it's gonna be messed up people
• 1:14:31
  Ashley: are gonna be getting killed but you know what we're also gonna have fun with
• 1:14:33
  Ashley: it everybody's gonna have.
• 1:14:34
  Evan: A good time i need to watch actually the original i'll just what i'm gonna do
• 1:14:37
  Evan: is just watch all all them you know in a row you know not the same sitting perhaps
• 1:14:41
  Evan: but in order just to maybe maybe be in the same thing we'll see um but maybe maybe you'll all.
• 1:14:48
  Oslowe: I need is some speed and.
• 1:14:50
  Evan: A diaper yeah uh but maybe we'll uh return this uh this trio return to one of
• 1:14:57
  Evan: those uh summer party massacre or something but oslo and ashley it's been a
• 1:15:02
  Evan: pleasure as always to have you as this little horror horror trio.
• 1:15:09
  Ashley: Thank you so much.
• 1:15:10
  Oslowe: Thank you for having me. Yeah. It was a great pleasure.
• 1:15:13
  Evan: Check out all these horror films, whether, you know, we like horror or not.
• 1:15:17
  Evan: I think that, well, I might cut this, but do you think that Freddie and Amber
• 1:15:23
  Evan: Elm Street is a movie that you would like, even if you're not like a big horror fan?
• 1:15:27
  Evan: That's a weird question. Meaning like it's...
• 1:15:29
  Oslowe: It's 2025. So I feel like it's 2025.
• 1:15:33
  Oslowe: We're a long way from when this was a cutting-edge, genuinely frightening thing.
• 1:15:39
  Oslowe: I feel like for someone who wants the nostalgia of a Stranger Things,
• 1:15:46
  Oslowe: but to go to the source material, I think they could really enjoy Nightmare on Elm Street.
• 1:15:52
  Oslowe: But it's not like the first thing I would recommend to somebody, probably.
• 1:15:58
  Ashley: I would agree. I would think, like, if somebody is wanting to start getting
• 1:16:03
  Ashley: into some horror movies, probably recommend some more recent things.
• 1:16:05
  Ashley: And then when they're ready to, you know, take a look back and see where did we come from?
• 1:16:13
  Evan: Yeah, sometimes if you go straight to those campy 80s movies,
• 1:16:16
  Evan: you can be turned off. You know, I can understand.
• 1:16:20
  Oslowe: Yeah.
• 1:16:20
  Evan: I mean, I like them. I very much like them, but I'm not everybody.
• 1:16:25
  Oslowe: Who doesn't love a little blood rage?
• 1:16:29
  Ashley: Yeah, this feels like, honestly, this movie, Friday the 13th,
• 1:16:34
  Ashley: so many of these feel like drive-in movies.
• 1:16:37
  Evan: This would be a great drive-in movie.
• 1:16:39
  Ashley: This is also a good summer one. Yeah, and if you have a drive-in theater near
• 1:16:43
  Ashley: you, I'm lucky enough to have one nearby.
• 1:16:45
  Ashley: They usually play newer movies. But if you have one near you,
• 1:16:49
  Ashley: take advantage, whether or not they're playing horror movies,
• 1:16:53
  Ashley: because they're very few and far between.
• 1:16:56
  Evan: Probably yours might play them for halloween though right would you think.
• 1:17:01
  Ashley: Um maybe i don't know they recently uh there's hopefully we will see they were
• 1:17:06
  Ashley: closed down for a while then they opened back up um so fingers.
• 1:17:11
  Evan: Crossed but.
• 1:17:12
  Ashley: Yeah go to support your local uh independent theaters especially drive-ins your.
• 1:17:16
  Oslowe: Local indie theaters and drive-ins.
• 1:17:19
  Evan: And if you do have a video rental place which most people don't you could also
• 1:17:22
  Evan: support them and support at your public library as you said at the beginning
• 1:17:26
  Evan: of yeah yeah not not just to check out movies audiobooks regular books you know
• 1:17:31
  Evan: can check those out you probably have access to libby i highly recommend listening to books that way i.
• 1:17:37
  Ashley: Love libby yes i love.
• 1:17:38
  Evan: Um but yeah oslo and uh and ashley signing off for the second time that's the
• 1:17:44
  Evan: double goodbye uh we will catch you next time on left of the projector.