Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Annyse Balkwill: De-Robotizing Water and Unlocking Creativity | Make Water Work 015

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Annyse Balkwill: De-Robotizing Water and Unlocking Creativity | Make Water Work 015 · Make Water Work Podcast

• 0:00
  Sometimes very simply when someone says,
• 0:02
  "What do you do?" And I think I I don't
• 0:04
  know where to start. Like especially if
• 0:06
  they're not, you know, that's a guy that
• 0:07
  owns a coffee shop or something. I say,
• 0:09
  "I help d-roobbitize organizations." And
• 0:12
  they usually go, "Oh god, we need that
• 0:14
  so bad." Like it's such a relatable, you
• 0:17
  know, simple sentence, but everything is
• 0:21
  done through humans.
• 0:23
  And when we honor that, so much magic
• 0:27
  unlocks. Welcome to the Make Water Work
• 0:30
  podcast, where we dive into the people,
• 0:32
  ideas, and innovation shaping the future
• 0:35
  of water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
• 0:38
  and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
• 0:41
  the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
• 0:44
  insights from hundreds of incredible
• 0:46
  conversations we've had over the past 9
• 0:48
  years with inspiring and energizing
• 0:51
  leaders in the water industry. Each
• 0:54
  week, we share those stories and
• 0:56
  conversations with entrepreneurs,
• 0:58
  community champions, and innovators who
• 1:00
  are making water work for everyone.
• 1:03
  Whether you're a water professional, a
• 1:05
  curious innovator, or simply passionate
• 1:07
  about our most precious resource, this
• 1:09
  podcast is for you. Let's get started.
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  Well, thank you everyone for joining the
• 1:16
  Make Water Work podcast, where we
• 1:18
  interview innovators and leaders who
• 1:21
  make water work. And so, um, Megan, I'm
• 1:24
  really excited about today's episode.
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  Tell us who we're who we're chatting
• 1:26
  with today.
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  >> So, today we are speaking to
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  entrepreneur and founder, uh, Anise Bach
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  Bachill. And, uh, Anise is the founder
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  of Lumen US and host of the meaningful
• 1:39
  conversations with Anise. And I'm just,
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  um, you know, you know those people that
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  you meet and you just your energy
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  connects before you even know the
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  substance of like what they do. That was
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  that was my initial connection with
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  Anise when we met in person at the water
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  tower um about a year ago. And once I
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  learned more about uh her organization
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  and and what she's doing and then now
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  her podcast which is really focused on
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  meaningful conversations with women in
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  water and other leadership, I'm like,
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  you know what? Like you are a badass. We
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  need to have you on the podcast. And so
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  I'm just so excited that schedules
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  aligned and we're able to have you on
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  the podcast.
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  >> Welcome.
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  >> So happy to be here.
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  >> Yes.
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  >> Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having me.
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  Happy to be here. And I feel felt very
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  much the same when I met you. So
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  >> this is this is awesome.
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  >> Yeah. Well, we um we like to kick off
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  every episode with the same question. Um
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  because we've never met a person in
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  water that doesn't have an amazing story
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  to tell. So can you please share with us
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  how did water find you?
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  Well, I was looking for work right out
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  of university and I had two job offers.
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  One was with a chemical company and one
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  was with Xenon. Do you guys know Xenon?
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  >> The Xenon.
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  >> It ages. It ages me.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> The copier.
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  >> No, Xenon was uh the they made the ultra
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  the holo fiber ultra filtration
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  membranes, the ones that were submerged.
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  And so GE bought them, then Suez bought
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  them, and they are now part of Violia.
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  And that division is still going strong.
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  That um office is just 40 minutes down
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  the road from where I live. And I
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  started there uh fresh out of school.
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  I'm a chemical engineer, chemical and
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  biochemical engineer by training. And so
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  I started there in a an introductory
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  level role. And I did process
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  engineering there. I did product
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  management there. I worked there for uh
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  over 11 years and I had a um I thought
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  of this when you asked that question. I
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  had a mentor there who I just adored and
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  he said, you know, he goes, "You're
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  probably going to be in this industry
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  forever." He goes, "As soon as you get a
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  little wet behind the ears, you don't
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  leave." And so, uh yeah, so I've been
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  hanging around in this industry for over
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  20 years, believe it or not.
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  >> Yeah. and and so um so yeah GE water
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  right is who acquired uh the firm and
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  you were in product management. So I
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  mean talk about that shift from
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  corporate America and GE water really
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  high-profile job in project management
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  to now you went out on your own like how
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  was that leap and and what kind of
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  compelled you to go out and uh and start
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  your company.
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  Yeah, I so product management I did that
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  for the majority of my time with GE
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  water Xenon and then GE water and that
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  really taught me everything from the
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  water business from new product
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  development to commercialization to
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  pricing and costing to full design
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  like production commissioning. So the
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  whole gamut and they did it over, you
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  know, I worked over multiple product
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  lines and it was a global opportunity.
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  And so what GE is really great at is
• 4:53
  teaching you about business even if they
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  don't you don't exactly know that
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  they're teaching you. And so it's just
• 4:59
  part of that culture and you I really
• 5:02
  learned a lot about how business works,
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  how it runs, so much about our industry.
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  I got to work all over the place. And a
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  theme that sort of kept coming up was I
• 5:13
  would be in meetings where I could tell
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  people were just agreeing so that they
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  could end the meeting already and get
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  out of the room.
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  >> And I don't think that was unique to
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  like where I was working.
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  >> I see now that I work with other
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  organizations, I see that again and
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  again. And I would say to myself out
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  loud uh some and lots in my head is
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  there's got to be a better way to do
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  this. I didn't know what that better way
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  was, but then it found me. It was
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  another thing that found me. So, water
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  found me first and then ways of working
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  and ways of facilitating uh and sort of
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  really ways of leadership that all
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  started to find me. And so, I I learned
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  a little bit. It was outside of work. I
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  learned a little bit. Uh the woman that
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  was I was at a meeting and the woman
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  that was running it, I could tell that
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  she really did things different. And we
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  were doing strange things like sitting
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  in a circle and there was intuitive
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  cards on the floor and this was with a
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  group full of strangers. But what
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  happened in that 2-hour meeting was so
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  much productivity and I felt like I knew
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  these people my whole life.
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  >> And I was like, what kind of magic did
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  you just do in this room? And I knew it
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  was something. And I left home that day
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  and I called my best friend and said,
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  "You'll never believe where I was
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  tonight." And I think I found what I'm
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  supposed to be doing. Like it just hit
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  me. And so then a couple of weeks later,
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  an opportunity came up when I was at GE
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  and they said, "We need to create a new
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  product for the Z-Wave 500, which is
• 6:44
  their flagship. It has the the
• 6:46
  reinforced hyalopiber membranes flagship
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  for um submerged membranes for
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  wastewater treatment. We need to develop
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  our next version." We've had two
• 6:55
  brainstorming sessions and have come up
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  with nothing. And I they said, "Can you
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  help us facilitate?" And I said, "Yeah,
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  I got a few ideas up my sleeve." And so,
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  uh, the I love him, but the R&D manager
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  and the product manager for that
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  particular line said, "You're crazy.
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  This idea sounds nuts." And I said, "It
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  sounds to me like you're between a rock
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  and a hard place, so let's give it a
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  shot. Like, and I'm free. I just work
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  here, you know? Like, let's just do it."
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  And so,
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  >> so in three days and in GE speak, three
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  short days. First day we went, I always
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  say this because it's so it speaks to so
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  much of the culture. We were we finished
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  at 5:00. The second day we finished at
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  4:00. The third day we were wrapped by
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  3:00.
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  >> Right. And that's like unheard of for a
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  creation brainstorming. Right.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> And we had a deadline on the Friday that
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  was we had to pitch out to senior
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  management what we came up with. It was
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  like a hard line. So I knew Thursday we
• 7:51
  would be off so they could put their
• 7:52
  pitches together. They pitched 15
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  concepts to product management and four
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  of them became fully funded R&D projects
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  and then I was at the WFTE that they
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  launched that new product you know years
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  later.
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  >> Oh my god,
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  >> that's awesome.
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  >> Gosh, that is so cool.
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  >> That's awesome.
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  >> It was that day that I was like, "Oh, I
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  knew there was a better way." It's not
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  that they didn't have the ideas. We
• 8:17
  didn't set the conditions for those
• 8:19
  ideas to flow. And so, and that was we
• 8:23
  were winging it. Uh, this woman that
• 8:26
  taught me, I called her and said, "Do
• 8:27
  you have time to meet for a coffee? I
• 8:29
  really need to write some notes down on
• 8:31
  the back of a napkin like a good
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  engineer so I can figure out how to run
• 8:34
  this thing, you know, in a week from
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  now." And so, it was a wild experiment.
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  And then it just grew after that. I was
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  really lucky and I got to practice all
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  over the world with people from all
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  different countries. Um, and we had so
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  much success that I grew the confidence
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  to then
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  take a huge leap of faith on my own.
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  >> Oh man, that's amazing.
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  >> I I love this topic of like design
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  thinking and the way like the way that
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  you help people um break down from the
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  the uniform or the costume they want
• 9:05
  they think they need to show up with. um
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  and creating a safe space for people to
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  just unlock the side of the brain that
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  says, "Well, I need to know what I'm
• 9:16
  talking about versus
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  >> we all just need to
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  >> let our guard down and know that this is
• 9:21
  safe so that we can actually
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  >> talk about the problem and not just the
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  solution."
• 9:26
  >> Um yeah, tell me more about about that
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  that type of process like what that was
• 9:32
  like.
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  >> Yeah. And that shows up everywhere is we
• 9:36
  are all so masked at work. And it's such
• 9:42
  a relief people. That's the feeling I'm
• 9:45
  always looking for in a room is relief.
• 9:48
  And cuz if you walk in a room with me,
• 9:50
  we're in a circle. There's no table or
• 9:53
  chairs in between us. Like we're just
• 9:54
  sitting in a circle of chairs and we're
• 9:57
  looking at each other. Once you work
• 9:59
  with me more than once, you start to
• 10:00
  notice that people start wearing fancy
• 10:02
  socks because we can see them.
• 10:04
  So that's always fun.
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  >> Now I'm self-conscious about my socks
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  >> and and it's it's a permission, but we
• 10:15
  work together to create that permission.
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  So it's a co-creation process and I
• 10:20
  started that word, you know, 10 years
• 10:22
  ago when nobody knew what it meant, but
• 10:24
  people are starting to say it now. And
• 10:26
  we are co-creating together. And we're
• 10:27
  not only co-creating together, there's
• 10:30
  also another force that I think comes
• 10:32
  in. And there's sort of a universal
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  force that we are also creating with.
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  >> And when we let our guard down and we
• 10:39
  let our own sort of rigidity and our
• 10:41
  defenses down and we do it gently and we
• 10:46
  do it, I always say with the trust level
• 10:48
  that's already in the room. We're not
• 10:50
  going to pretend it's any more or any
• 10:51
  less. We're just going to work with the
• 10:53
  trust level that's in the room and we're
• 10:55
  just going to get started. And so we do
• 10:59
  things really simply. We have a few
• 11:01
  simple tools like we do hopes and fears
• 11:04
  about everything
• 11:05
  in whatever the problem is or the
• 11:07
  perceived problem or the project that
• 11:10
  you're trying to work on or the culture
• 11:11
  that you're trying to create whatever
• 11:13
  the active business need is and I always
• 11:16
  say don't do this work don't do
• 11:19
  psychological safety work or you know or
• 11:22
  do the work and practice safety
• 11:27
  and you're probably not going to be
• 11:29
  awesome at it when you get started.
• 11:30
  And it's okay. It's just a practice. And
• 11:33
  through that practice, you start to
• 11:34
  recognize, oh, when I bring that defense
• 11:37
  mechanism here, I see that it shuts
• 11:40
  other people down. Right? Like a really
• 11:43
  simple defense mechanism is um when
• 11:46
  someone says like I know, but or um
• 11:52
  that's common sense. Isn't that common
• 11:54
  sense? Right? there's just these little
• 11:56
  nuances that we might know might do
• 11:59
  unknowingly just as a bit of a nervous
• 12:02
  system response. So I talk about it in
• 12:04
  terms of how do we help create the
• 12:08
  conditions where our nervous system
• 12:10
  isn't in our fight, flight or freeze
• 12:13
  because that means our amydala is
• 12:15
  activated and our amygdala is only
• 12:17
  creative at saving our lives. It is not
• 12:21
  that innovative in general. We want
• 12:24
  access to our preffrontal cortex. So how
• 12:26
  do we create those conditions? And by a
• 12:28
  simple tool like hopes and fears is
• 12:32
  people just start to say what are our
• 12:34
  hopes for this. It's amazing how many
• 12:36
  hopes are assumed or not assumed
• 12:40
  and then what what are our fears? And we
• 12:43
  just we just start doing it. We'll work
• 12:45
  it like in small groups and then we'll
• 12:46
  come and share it with the whole group
• 12:48
  say and what we start to realize is that
• 12:50
  oh there's similar fears in the room. So
• 12:53
  I don't have to be so guarded.
• 12:56
  Oh, someone spoke the fear that was in
• 12:58
  my head. That was really brave of them.
• 13:01
  I think I can speak my next fear. And so
• 13:04
  then you're just starting to actually
• 13:07
  learn what is in the room.
• 13:11
  And then I wish I could wave a magic
• 13:13
  wand and write fears out and then they
• 13:14
  never show up. I wish I had that. I
• 13:16
  would be a gazillionaire. But I don't
• 13:18
  know how to make that happen. But I do
• 13:20
  know that when you do that, the whole
• 13:22
  group is prepared to navigate that
• 13:25
  situation. If it's a fear situation that
• 13:28
  shows up, you're just all it's all in
• 13:30
  your prefrontal cortex. You've talked
• 13:32
  about it before. You're prepared for it
• 13:35
  instead of blindsided and then relying
• 13:37
  on your defense mechanisms to get you
• 13:39
  through it.
• 13:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:41
  >> I mean, I I like I eat this stuff. I
• 13:43
  love this stuff. But I can only imagine
• 13:46
  going into a corporate room with water
• 13:50
  people and anise, what I I bet there's
• 13:55
  varying degrees of uh folks being on
• 13:58
  board or not. I could be wrong, right?
• 14:00
  But I guess
• 14:02
  >> what what have you found effective to
• 14:04
  those that may not be all all in or go
• 14:08
  along with the process? like, you know,
• 14:10
  how does that affect what you do and how
• 14:12
  do you kind of bring them along into the
• 14:14
  into the process?
• 14:16
  >> There's never a group that everyone's
• 14:18
  all in.
• 14:19
  >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And even the
• 14:21
  leader usually, you know, someone that
• 14:23
  brings me in, they feel it, they know
• 14:26
  it, but they know they're doing
• 14:27
  something transformational.
• 14:29
  And so, no one's ready for
• 14:31
  transformation.
• 14:33
  It's just you do it even though you're
• 14:35
  not ready. You do it because your will,
• 14:38
  your belief in what's possible is
• 14:41
  greater than your uncomfortable feelings
• 14:43
  around it. I have one leader that always
• 14:46
  tells me, "You really helped me be
• 14:48
  comfortable with feeling uncomfortable."
• 14:50
  And that's where our growth edge is.
• 14:52
  That's where our innovation is. That's
• 14:53
  where we're expanding and evolving as
• 14:55
  leaders. So all of this work is part of
• 14:58
  the natural evolution of leadership, the
• 15:01
  natural evolution of our cultures. So we
• 15:04
  aren't trying to do anything. So it's a
• 15:07
  constant invitation.
• 15:09
  So that's what I I don't try to bring
• 15:11
  anyone along. I have no convincing to
• 15:14
  do, but I get them working as quickly as
• 15:18
  possible because when they're working
• 15:21
  and they care about the thing that we're
• 15:22
  working on, that's what's always true in
• 15:24
  a room. Even if they're not sure about
• 15:27
  this process and they think they know
• 15:28
  what's right and they're used to being
• 15:30
  the smartest person in the room, like
• 15:32
  whatever they're bringing in with them
• 15:34
  or they're nervous about opening up and
• 15:36
  they think hopes and fears are
• 15:38
  wishy-washy and they think the suit
• 15:40
  circle is like a kumbaya moment. I just
• 15:44
  allow all those feelings to be in the
• 15:46
  room. I'm not trying to help anybody not
• 15:49
  feel the way they're feeling. They just
• 15:51
  get to feel that way. And I have a fun I
• 15:54
  have a fun little story about that. Oh
• 15:55
  yeah, please.
• 15:56
  >> I was I was not on my own yet. I was
• 15:58
  just like a baby doing this. I was in
• 16:02
  >> we were in Cyprus. I just got back from
• 16:04
  maternity leave and we were trying out
• 16:07
  this sort of process in this whole new
• 16:09
  way. And the leader of the team in the
• 16:13
  Middle East, I met with him for dinner
• 16:14
  the night before, told him how
• 16:16
  everything was going to go. He wanted me
• 16:18
  to work with his team on some issues
• 16:20
  that they were having around like sales
• 16:22
  and um application engineering and very
• 16:24
  practical things. And I said, "Yeah, I
• 16:27
  have a great idea of how to do this to
• 16:28
  meet your goals." I said, "This is how
• 16:31
  it's going to go and it's going to feel
• 16:32
  a bit weird cuz everyone's going to sit
• 16:33
  in a circle and all these things." Well,
• 16:36
  we have a three-hour dinner. I think
• 16:37
  he's pretty good with this. And Andy is
• 16:40
  a dear friend. I I adore him. And and we
• 16:45
  get in the room and he sits down and he
• 16:47
  says, "What is this, kindergarten?" And
• 16:49
  I was like, "Oh,
• 16:51
  >> no."
• 16:51
  >> I was like, "I thought I prepared you
• 16:55
  last night at dinner,
• 16:56
  >> right?"
• 16:57
  >> But it taught me really early on that
• 17:00
  it's just okay if I'm okay with those
• 17:04
  feelings being in the room, they
• 17:07
  actually dissolve quite quickly. Or it
• 17:09
  might take someone a little longer. But
• 17:12
  I always say move at your own pace. Move
• 17:15
  at the trust level that you feel is in
• 17:17
  the room. Move at the pace that you're
• 17:19
  ready. I never ask anyone to write down
• 17:21
  or do something that they're not willing
• 17:23
  to do. And we move and um we'll do we
• 17:28
  use the group dynamic. So we will do
• 17:30
  something that has two people and then
• 17:32
  we'll do something that has four people.
• 17:34
  We'll do something that maybe is groups
• 17:35
  of eight. And so we move it around and
• 17:37
  they move people around and they create
• 17:40
  these sort of smaller, more intimate
• 17:42
  circles and they might create some
• 17:44
  content together. And then if they pitch
• 17:45
  that out to the team, well, I don't know
• 17:47
  that Joe said it or Jenny said it. I
• 17:50
  just know that that came up in the room.
• 17:52
  And and as we're doing it, I always say,
• 17:54
  don't filter. Just everyone's opinion is
• 17:57
  valid and just get it out. And then
• 18:00
  later in the process, you can decide
• 18:02
  where do you want to focus? What do we
• 18:03
  want to draw attention to? what just
• 18:05
  gets let go and honored as a great idea
• 18:07
  but not for today. Right? So there's an
• 18:10
  ease sort of and a flow that shows up
• 18:12
  that helps people see and feel what it
• 18:16
  feels like to be heard and seen and and
• 18:20
  how pe like they can they feel that but
• 18:24
  then they also see other people
• 18:25
  experiencing that. And so it's this
• 18:28
  beautiful dynamic that just creates its
• 18:30
  own process. And then, you know, if
• 18:32
  somebody knows someone that's like
• 18:34
  pretty uncomfortable, at a certain point
• 18:35
  in time, they crack a joke with them.
• 18:37
  And, you know, I'm pretty good at
• 18:39
  lightening the mood and nothing that
• 18:41
  we're doing is like so serious because
• 18:43
  like we're here to like work and have
• 18:44
  fun and create and problem solve, you
• 18:47
  know, and so yeah, that's how we tend to
• 18:50
  all of that.
• 18:50
  >> I love it. Yeah. And you mentioned
• 18:52
  something like it that you're generally
• 18:54
  brought in um at the transformation
• 18:56
  phase. I want to be a transformative
• 18:58
  leader. I am in a a business transition
• 19:01
  and and it's interesting because we
• 19:03
  we've had George Hawkins the former GM
• 19:06
  at um at Moonshock.
• 19:07
  >> I have worked in circle with him before
• 19:10
  pure delight and and you know he's you
• 19:12
  know I think he's getting to the root
• 19:14
  cause of you have to break the system in
• 19:17
  order to put the sustainable impact and
• 19:19
  change on the system. And I I just
• 19:22
  that's I find your approach so novel to
• 19:24
  this like it you know if we just want
• 19:27
  leadership or teams to behave status quo
• 19:29
  then we're going to put traditional
• 19:31
  leadership training norms on the the
• 19:34
  problem or the solution. But if we
• 19:36
  actually want transformation, honestly,
• 19:38
  sometimes sitting in a circle in your
• 19:39
  socks and seeing your boss and seeing
• 19:41
  what funny holes in their socks they
• 19:43
  have is just what you need to break the
• 19:45
  ice to actually humanize the work we're
• 19:47
  doing and and and bring to your point
• 19:49
  the meaningful conversations from the
• 19:52
  right part of the brain. So
• 19:53
  >> that's right.
• 19:54
  >> Yeah.
• 19:54
  >> And that they get to engage their heart
• 19:56
  in that conversation as well. It's their
• 19:59
  head. We bring our head to work. We show
• 20:01
  up at work and we work from our neck up.
• 20:04
  >> Yeah.
• 20:05
  But do you know where all of our
• 20:06
  creativity is? It's in our body.
• 20:08
  >> It's in our body. Okay.
• 20:10
  >> It's in our body.
• 20:10
  >> It's our body.
• 20:11
  >> Our second chakra if you you know from
• 20:14
  the traditional Hindu yogic system is
• 20:18
  what contains our reproductive organs
• 20:22
  because that's where we we create life
• 20:24
  from there. And so our creativity our
• 20:27
  energy center for creativity is there
• 20:29
  which is deep in our body. And the
• 20:32
  chakra that's above it is the I am
• 20:36
  chakra. The it's our um how we show
• 20:39
  ourselves to the world. Well, if we're
• 20:41
  only showing our masks to the world,
• 20:44
  then there's nowhere for that creative
• 20:46
  energy to flow.
• 20:47
  >> So, it's a bit of a block.
• 20:50
  >> So, if we help people so connect their
• 20:53
  head, then connect to their heart. This
• 20:55
  is what pay attention to what has heart
• 20:57
  and meaning is always one of the the
• 20:59
  principles that we use because what has
• 21:02
  heart and meaning is actually what has
• 21:03
  intrinsic motivation for you.
• 21:06
  >> Right. That's right.
• 21:07
  >> And it's okay if what has heart and
• 21:08
  meaning for you is you know killing the
• 21:11
  design in a spreadsheet or you know I
• 21:13
  think perfect. That's where we need your
• 21:15
  skill.
• 21:16
  >> Right. And but it allows people to just
• 21:18
  take their little mask or their hat or
• 21:20
  their role and I always say set it aside
• 21:22
  for the co-creation opportunities. We're
• 21:26
  here to transform and transformation
• 21:28
  only happens when the individuals
• 21:30
  transform.
• 21:32
  >> Otherwise, it's just business
• 21:33
  operations.
• 21:34
  >> It's business optimization. I would say
• 21:36
  are we doing business optimization or
• 21:37
  are we doing transformation? Because
• 21:39
  transformation
• 21:40
  requires a human to transform.
• 21:44
  And so one of the ways that we do that
• 21:45
  is head, heart, and then our will
• 21:47
  center. And our will center is that
• 21:50
  third chakra. So when you have humans
• 21:53
  who are connected head, heart, and their
• 21:56
  will center. Oh boy. Everything becomes
• 21:59
  possible.
• 22:00
  >> Yeah.
• 22:01
  >> Like everything becomes possible.
• 22:02
  >> Oh my gosh.
• 22:04
  >> It's funny. I have I have a a friend who
• 22:07
  has um he has a YouTube uh channel. He's
• 22:10
  kind of like Bill Nye, the science guy
• 22:12
  for art history. Um, former art teacher,
• 22:15
  but he also talks um to some folks. But
• 22:18
  one of the messages um he was sharing a
• 22:21
  study with me about, you know, if you
• 22:23
  ask any first grader who's creative in
• 22:26
  this room, every hand goes up. By the
• 22:28
  time you hit 12, it's like 30%. And by
• 22:31
  the time you're adults, it's like, oh,
• 22:32
  well, it's only the person who paints or
• 22:35
  like does a create traditional creative
• 22:38
  versus every person brings their
• 22:41
  creative self to where they are.
• 22:43
  >> It's whether or not they're tapping into
• 22:44
  it. And I I feel like that's a lot of
• 22:47
  everything you're saying is just is just
• 22:49
  bringing that back up that it's like how
• 22:51
  do we get back to that place where we
• 22:53
  feel safe and unencumbered to bring our
• 22:55
  creative self um to whatever problem
• 22:58
  we're solving. That's where that's where
• 23:00
  the meaningful change will happen.
• 23:01
  >> Yeah, that's right. And I am I I never
• 23:05
  would have said I was creative. I was
• 23:07
  totally that kid that's a type A. If
• 23:10
  people work with me, they think I'm
• 23:11
  really type B because it feels very
• 23:14
  unconstrained.
• 23:16
  But if you plan with me, I'm super type
• 23:18
  A. And so I I always say I'm a
• 23:20
  recovering type A. And I thought arts
• 23:23
  and you know drama and anything that
• 23:27
  wasn't science, math, like all the
• 23:30
  things I needed to do do do to become an
• 23:32
  engineer and to do all those things I
• 23:34
  thought was a complete waste of time.
• 23:37
  So I like I feel like I can do this work
• 23:42
  with our industry because I I am that
• 23:46
  person. I am the person who would say
• 23:48
  like I my oldest daughter is a huge
• 23:50
  creative. She's a maker.
• 23:52
  >> Got it.
• 23:53
  >> She's in grade 10. We're figuring out
• 23:54
  her life's journey and it's making
• 23:57
  stuff. Whether it's movie sets or
• 23:59
  whatever, she's a maker.
• 24:01
  >> And she looks at me mom and is like,
• 24:03
  "You can't make anything." I'm like, "I
• 24:05
  know. I'm not creative, right? Like
• 24:07
  she's so I don't she did not she did not
• 24:10
  get any of that from me." And so when I
• 24:13
  really started into this work and I was
• 24:15
  using an affirmation sort of this
• 24:17
  affirmation around building the business
• 24:19
  and that it was going to be where I use
• 24:21
  all of my creativity and for the longest
• 24:24
  time I just felt like a like a fraud. I
• 24:27
  was like what creativity? There's no
• 24:29
  creativity in this body.
• 24:31
  >> But I really had to expand my scope of
• 24:35
  creativity. It's not art and drama only.
• 24:39
  It's ways of working. It's it's problem
• 24:43
  solving. It's dissolve. It's you know,
• 24:46
  are we solving a problem or do we have
• 24:47
  to dissolve some issues?
• 24:49
  >> Are we solving or dissolving? What I
• 24:51
  love about this process is it dissolves
• 24:54
  so we can focus and I and really
• 24:57
  articulate the problem that we're
• 25:00
  solving for or the purpose that we're
• 25:02
  fulfilling or the vision that we would
• 25:03
  like to co-create.
• 25:04
  >> Yeah.
• 25:05
  >> Yeah. So, I never work with a group of
• 25:08
  people who are like, "Yeah, we're so
• 25:10
  creative. I make everyone do arts and
• 25:12
  crafts." I shouldn't say that. No one
• 25:13
  will hire me, but I make everybody do
• 25:16
  that at one part because if we can see
• 25:20
  and feel things, then they come to life
• 25:24
  in a better dimension. So, the
• 25:26
  creativity in like a strict sense of the
• 25:28
  world, I always say it never has to be
• 25:29
  good. It just has to be meaningful.
• 25:31
  >> Yeah, that's right. And then your
• 25:32
  creativity really comes to light with
• 25:34
  what idea would you really love to bring
• 25:36
  forward? How would you really love for
• 25:38
  it to feel at work? How what is your
• 25:40
  desire or your vision for success for
• 25:42
  this project? And articulate that.
• 25:45
  >> But we jump right into problem solving
• 25:47
  mode and right into the doing phase.
• 25:52
  But what we really need for
• 25:54
  transformation, what we really need to
• 25:56
  solve our biggest challenges is
• 25:59
  transformation, which is a combination
• 26:00
  of being. How are we being with one
• 26:03
  another? And then what are we doing? And
• 26:06
  that's where that old system starts to
• 26:08
  dissolve because systems are mostly just
• 26:10
  a whole set of assumptions.
• 26:12
  >> Oh my gosh. Wow. And we know
• 26:14
  >> and assumptions can only be dissolved,
• 26:16
  >> right? Do I I mean so I I guess uh this
• 26:20
  is a little bit off script but you do
• 26:21
  have a line of sight and do you work
• 26:23
  with diverse groups in water are there I
• 26:26
  mean are can you point to like
• 26:28
  commonalities of the most that like what
• 26:30
  needs to dissolve first or do you have
• 26:32
  any like key themes that you come in and
• 26:34
  every time you're going to be like this
• 26:35
  is what we need to attack first or just
• 26:37
  curious
• 26:38
  >> I never I never say this is what we're
• 26:40
  going to attack first I always say tell
• 26:41
  me about what's going on and I start
• 26:44
  wherever the business wants to start
• 26:48
  there isn't a formula.
• 26:51
  Um but one place that the teams actually
• 26:54
  I have place I have people start in all
• 26:56
  different areas say what area feels the
• 26:59
  most meaningful.
• 27:01
  So sometimes we start with you know just
• 27:03
  the leadership team but sometimes we
• 27:04
  start with all the leaders like one
• 27:07
  group I started working with eight it
• 27:08
  was 80 people that we brought together
• 27:09
  first.
• 27:10
  >> Wow.
• 27:10
  >> Yeah.
• 27:11
  >> Yeah. and we got and we got started and
• 27:13
  what they started to articulate was
• 27:15
  exactly what they wanted for the
• 27:17
  organization.
• 27:18
  So then the leadership team can respond
• 27:21
  to that and then start building from
• 27:23
  there and allowing them to build with
• 27:25
  them and sometimes we start with the
• 27:27
  leadership team because there's some
• 27:29
  work that's needed there. One thing I do
• 27:31
  see in all organizations
• 27:34
  and I think this is because of our
• 27:35
  hierarchal struct hierarchical
• 27:37
  structure.
• 27:39
  I always say the structure is the
• 27:40
  structure. It doesn't define how you
• 27:43
  work. It defines how the finances are
• 27:45
  recorded essentially.
• 27:47
  >> So let it have that power.
• 27:49
  >> Yeah.
• 27:50
  >> You know,
• 27:51
  >> and that's okay.
• 27:53
  um but is that a leadership team
• 27:57
  often
• 27:58
  doesn't feel like that's a team
• 28:02
  they so if especially if you're at the
• 28:04
  you know CEO level and you have some VPs
• 28:06
  or whatever your your chief officers
• 28:09
  whatever your titles are is that they
• 28:12
  feel like their team is supply chain
• 28:14
  they feel like their team is process
• 28:16
  design they feel like their team is uh
• 28:20
  sales
• 28:21
  and So then you have organizations when
• 28:24
  I think about what what could unlock
• 28:28
  unlimited possibilities
• 28:30
  is more of those teams actually learning
• 28:33
  how to be a team together.
• 28:36
  >> Yes. I you know we we do a lot with
• 28:39
  utilities and especially the larger up
• 28:41
  the size you go these silos. I'm only
• 28:45
  going to think about you know my
• 28:47
  engineers. I'm only going to think about
• 28:48
  water quality. only and and I often
• 28:51
  think like what if we what if you
• 28:53
  actually started to think as one
• 28:54
  organization versus I'm responsible for
• 28:57
  this P&L with these people and I I I
• 29:00
  could that's interesting that you say
• 29:01
  that because we feel that and it's just
• 29:03
  so hard to make change when everything
• 29:05
  is done in silos and you know and uh
• 29:08
  >> and nobody likes it. Interesting. Okay.
• 29:11
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:12
  >> No one's like, "I love this silo. It's
• 29:14
  awesome." It just creates division.
• 29:19
  >> And that division is only a set of
• 29:21
  assumptions.
• 29:23
  We act as if there's a real wall.
• 29:25
  There's nothing tangible.
• 29:28
  But people will not pick up the phone to
• 29:30
  call somebody else in a different silo.
• 29:33
  I have one leader that I've worked with.
• 29:35
  He's one of my favorites. He says to me,
• 29:38
  "Anise, do you know how much time I
• 29:40
  spend telling people to pick up the
• 29:41
  phone and call the other person?" He
• 29:44
  goes, "That comes out of my mouth like
• 29:45
  10 times a day." And I think, "Good.
• 29:47
  You're going because as soon as they
• 29:49
  call them, that starts, pardon me, that
• 29:53
  starts to dissolve.
• 29:55
  That silo starts to dissolve. So, we act
• 29:58
  as if our hierarchical structure
• 30:03
  is rigid
• 30:05
  and it's not. It's just a set of belief
• 30:08
  systems that told us to do that. So we
• 30:11
  have to create experiences
• 30:14
  where they can feel what it feels like
• 30:18
  to not operate with the idea of a silo.
• 30:22
  >> It's only an idea.
• 30:24
  >> Yeah.
• 30:24
  >> How interesting.
• 30:25
  >> Yeah. And it is kind of going back to
• 30:27
  that aspect of like the the way that you
• 30:30
  create the atmosphere to create safety
• 30:32
  for saying, "Hey, you can recognize that
• 30:35
  this is a structure from a financial
• 30:38
  lens or we have a P&L," but there's
• 30:40
  nothing that says that we're also just
• 30:43
  humans.
• 30:43
  >> Yeah.
• 30:44
  >> In the same room.
• 30:45
  >> Just humans.
• 30:46
  >> Yeah.
• 30:48
  >> Sometimes very simply when someone says,
• 30:49
  "What do you do?" And I think I I don't
• 30:52
  know where to start. Like especially if
• 30:53
  they're not, you know, that's a guy that
• 30:54
  owns a coffee shop or something. I say I
• 30:57
  de help drooize organizations.
• 31:00
  >> Oh yeah. Yes.
• 31:01
  >> And they usually go, "Oh god, we need
• 31:03
  that so bad." Like it's such a
• 31:04
  relatable, you know, simple sentence.
• 31:08
  But everything is done through humans.
• 31:13
  And when we honor that,
• 31:16
  so much magic unlocks
• 31:20
  and it makes everything better. It makes
• 31:23
  uh you know career pathing easier. It
• 31:27
  makes fulfillment in that role easier.
• 31:30
  >> Yeah.
• 31:31
  >> It makes meetings more productive. It
• 31:35
  makes relationship building not feel
• 31:38
  like a struggle. It makes idea
• 31:41
  generation and and a desire to change
• 31:44
  because everything's always changing
• 31:46
  anyways, but we think we have to manage
• 31:49
  change. Like we have to strangle it
• 31:51
  almost to manage it. And I always say
• 31:53
  just no. Like where's the desire for the
• 31:56
  change? Like tune into the desire for
• 31:59
  the change. Co-create it together
• 32:02
  because I promise you your organization
• 32:04
  knows exactly what needs to change and
• 32:06
  why it needs to change. They just don't
• 32:09
  feel like they can.
• 32:11
  >> Yeah.
• 32:13
  >> And so when you unlock that, all of a
• 32:15
  sudden things snowball and so much is
• 32:18
  shifting and changing and growing and
• 32:20
  opportunities are, you know, showing up
• 32:23
  and people are feeling like they can do
• 32:25
  it and run with it. It allows you to
• 32:29
  have whatever structure that you need to
• 32:31
  organize the organization because I
• 32:32
  totally get it.
• 32:34
  >> But it doesn't bind you by it.
• 32:36
  >> Yeah.
• 32:37
  >> Yeah. Yeah,
• 32:38
  >> that's I love I love that. I think um
• 32:41
  No, I think that is so um insightful um
• 32:46
  and important to understand especially
• 32:49
  uh in the spirit of transforming our
• 32:51
  industry. And I think one of the ways I
• 32:53
  I want to make sure we touch on because
• 32:55
  uh one of the ways you are also
• 32:56
  transforming the industry in my opinion
• 32:58
  um is by your new podcast. Mhm.
• 33:01
  >> Uh so thank you for launching a kickass
• 33:05
  podcast featuring amazing women leaders
• 33:08
  in water. Um I just what just talk a
• 33:13
  little bit about what uh what compelled
• 33:14
  you to do that and uh in your opinion
• 33:17
  what what kind of void is that
• 33:19
  fulfilling for us in the industry?
• 33:22
  >> Well, I've had a desire to have a
• 33:25
  podcast forever. I I did one for an
• 33:28
  organization where I spoke to their
• 33:31
  senior leaders to sort of humanize them
• 33:34
  because senior leaders in really large
• 33:36
  organizations start to like get
• 33:39
  dehumanized and people can't quite
• 33:42
  relate to them. So we ran it as a wild
• 33:44
  experiment and that's when I like bought
• 33:46
  the equipment. We kind of figured it
• 33:48
  out. We worked with this this company
• 33:49
  and then I loved it. shocking, but I
• 33:52
  loved it. And but then I couldn't figure
• 33:55
  out what is the in and you would know
• 33:58
  this. It's like how do I start it? Like
• 34:00
  why do I start it? What purpose am I
• 34:02
  fulfilling? How do I set this up? Like I
• 34:05
  couldn't I couldn't get there. And then
• 34:08
  two years ago, I hosted the women's
• 34:12
  circle at WFTE
• 34:14
  and we just had such an awesome 90
• 34:20
  minutes and I thought, "Oh, it's so hard
• 34:24
  still in this industry to find women, to
• 34:28
  find each other, to feel like we have
• 34:31
  someone to look up to, to attract the
• 34:35
  next, you know, group of women coming in
• 34:37
  and to keep them in the industry. And I
• 34:40
  thought, this is still such a gap. And
• 34:43
  so then I came home from that kind of
• 34:45
  fired up and energized by that
• 34:47
  conversation. They they got to talk
• 34:49
  about their own their themselves at
• 34:51
  WFTEC. They took 90 minutes to talk
• 34:53
  about themselves and their hopes and
• 34:55
  fears about their next steps in their
• 34:56
  career and they coached each other and
• 34:58
  they counseledled each other and it was
• 35:00
  a really cool event. And I thought, oh,
• 35:03
  when you gather women, it's so powerful.
• 35:06
  And I believe that the transformation
• 35:09
  that's required in the water industry
• 35:12
  requires more women involved to make it
• 35:16
  happen. They are natural systems
• 35:18
  thinkers.
• 35:20
  Their everyday life prepares them to
• 35:22
  juggle, you know, multiple things being
• 35:25
  true at once. It prepares them to uh
• 35:28
  sort of multitask and delegate. they are
• 35:31
  um often, you know, a nurturing whether
• 35:34
  they have children or not, but their
• 35:36
  families and their friends. There's this
• 35:38
  element that they're collaborators and
• 35:41
  co-creators. And when we have women
• 35:43
  lifting each other up, I think all of
• 35:45
  society benefits.
• 35:48
  And so I thought, where are all the
• 35:51
  voices? I want to hear the voices that
• 35:54
  are in the industry already. And I want
• 35:57
  young women to hear the voices. and I
• 35:59
  want to hear from young women. I just
• 36:01
  want a place to elevate women's voices
• 36:04
  in the water space. And I thought, I
• 36:06
  don't know how to do everything, but I
• 36:08
  do know how to do that. And so that's
• 36:10
  where that was crafted. And I thought we
• 36:13
  already had the meaningful conversations
• 36:15
  logo from 10 years ago. We knew I don't
• 36:18
  know, it was just a little bit of a I
• 36:21
  just knew we were going to use that
• 36:22
  somewhere. And so when we sat down,
• 36:25
  everyone's like, "Well, what are we
• 36:26
  going to name it?" And I think I said I
• 36:28
  think that logo that we already have. I
• 36:31
  think that's just it.
• 36:33
  >> And I said that's what we do in circle.
• 36:35
  That's what I do one-on-one when I
• 36:37
  coach. Like I have been hosting
• 36:40
  meaningful conversations. When I really
• 36:43
  thought about it preparing for WTE this
• 36:44
  year, I've been doing this for 28 years.
• 36:47
  I've been sitting in circle talking
• 36:48
  about leadership. I started when I was
• 36:52
  15 in a um in a leadership seminar that
• 36:56
  I was invited to. I went they sat us in
• 36:59
  circle and we talked with each other the
• 37:01
  students 15 year olds to 15 year olds.
• 37:03
  the leaders sat out a little bit, let us
• 37:06
  talk and then I went back as staff and
• 37:08
  then I went back as a committee member
• 37:09
  and I finished I did it back I went back
• 37:11
  for like 16 years um as as the
• 37:14
  chairperson of that event and then I was
• 37:17
  about 33
• 37:20
  32 there my second daughter was almost
• 37:22
  born and then I and then I started this
• 37:26
  business like two years later and I
• 37:28
  started practicing at work so I actually
• 37:29
  don't have one year that I didn't sit in
• 37:32
  circles in meaningful conversation since
• 37:34
  I was 15 and I only basically remembered
• 37:37
  that like maybe 3 or 4 months ago and so
• 37:40
  you know so so it just it seemed like
• 37:42
  such a fitting we hadn't even connected
• 37:44
  those like long dots um when we named it
• 37:48
  but I thought yeah that's what we've
• 37:49
  been doing and I believe that it's
• 37:51
  meaningful transformations
• 37:53
  um that are transformative it gives
• 37:55
  people the courage to transform I always
• 37:59
  say the way that they are desiring to
• 38:02
  already because we are meant to evolve.
• 38:07
  Not to a way they should, but the way
• 38:09
  that they already want to. And we create
• 38:12
  the conditions for them to do that. And
• 38:14
  then we all benefit.
• 38:15
  >> Yeah.
• 38:16
  >> Yeah. It transports folks from feeling
• 38:18
  isolated to feeling
• 38:21
  >> inclusive,
• 38:21
  >> supported, connected.
• 38:22
  >> Yeah. Like Yeah. Like we're Yeah.
• 38:25
  >> Um Yeah. connected and in community. And
• 38:28
  um that's where magic happens.
• 38:30
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you
• 38:32
  for starting that because I think to
• 38:33
  your point, it's where are all the
• 38:34
  voices? I think um we now have a a forum
• 38:38
  and I'm I'm very excited to see how
• 38:40
  those meaningful conversations
• 38:42
  transform. I would definitely encourage
• 38:44
  anybody um going to WTE and maybe even
• 38:47
  larger other conferences along the way.
• 38:49
  I think you are creating a really great
• 38:51
  platform and channel and a forum to have
• 38:54
  the meaningful conversations and I'm
• 38:57
  just uh super excited to see you
• 38:59
  continue that work and to see how that
• 39:01
  work um evolves over time because it's
• 39:03
  absolutely needed for transformation in
• 39:05
  our industry.
• 39:06
  >> Ah thank you so much and and there's a
• 39:08
  lot of brave souls who are ready to go
• 39:10
  in our industry. The timing is really
• 39:12
  great.
• 39:13
  >> Yes. Yeah. Well thank you so much Anise.
• 39:15
  people want to learn more, connect with
• 39:17
  you personally or professionally, where
• 39:19
  where should they go?
• 39:20
  >> Yeah, they can find me at Anisebach on
• 39:22
  LinkedIn. They can go to our website
• 39:24
  which is luminousgroup.ca.
• 39:27
  Um, and we are easy to get a hold of.
• 39:30
  >> Yeah.
• 39:31
  >> Awesome. Thank you so much for joining
• 39:33
  us. Um, yeah, we appreciate you making
• 39:36
  the time to chat with us.
• 39:38
  >> Thank you. This is such a great program
• 39:39
  that you're building. So, thank you for
• 39:41
  having me. I feel very honored uh to be
• 39:43
  with you today.
• 39:43
  >> Oh, our pleasure. Thanks. Talk soon.
• 39:48
  >> Well, Isaac, that was a really fun
• 39:49
  conversation with Anise Bachwell. I you
• 39:52
  know, I mentioned my immediate
• 39:53
  connection with her was just this
• 39:54
  energy. I'm like, I I love your style. I
• 39:57
  love how you're approaching
• 39:58
  transformation and I think um I think
• 40:00
  the podcast I mean that that
• 40:02
  conversation with her just kind of told
• 40:03
  it all. Um
• 40:04
  >> yeah. Yeah.
• 40:04
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I I was very excited um to
• 40:07
  meet her and in the conversation I found
• 40:09
  myself just kind of
• 40:11
  >> um because the word kept coming up, it
• 40:14
  was um the word dissolve and just
• 40:16
  thinking about how how important it is
• 40:19
  that um that water as a universal
• 40:21
  solvent is um that we honor that and
• 40:24
  that it it helps break down some of the
• 40:26
  um some of the barriers that we have to
• 40:28
  bring our best selves to whatever we're
• 40:30
  doing. And so, um, yeah, I loved the
• 40:32
  message that, um, that she had and
• 40:36
  really would very much encourage, uh,
• 40:38
  folks to tune in, tune in to her
• 40:40
  podcast. So, there's such important
• 40:41
  conversations,
• 40:43
  >> um, that we need, um, that we need to
• 40:45
  have, um, that keeps coming up as a
• 40:48
  recurring theme um, on on this podcast.
• 40:51
  >> And um, we're so thankful that you've
• 40:53
  turn tuned in to the Make Waterwork
• 40:55
  podcast. We love these conversations and
• 41:00
  we love hearing from you. Um have had so
• 41:02
  many great um folks reach out about the
• 41:04
  impact that some of these conversations
• 41:06
  are having on you. So if that's you,
• 41:08
  please let us know if there's someone
• 41:09
  you want to hear from who makes water
• 41:10
  work that you want um us to have feature
• 41:12
  on the podcast. Um let us know even if
• 41:15
  that's yourself. Um uh would love to do
• 41:17
  that. And um please like, share, follow,
• 41:21
  do all the things that you normally do
• 41:23
  with with a podcast. And we'll see you
• 41:25
  next time.
• 41:26
  Thanks for listening to the Make Water
• 41:28
  Work podcast. If you enjoyed today's
• 41:31
  episode, please take a moment to like,
• 41:33
  share, and subscribe so you never miss a
• 41:35
  conversation. We'd love to hear your
• 41:38
  thoughts and questions. Connect with us
• 41:40
  on LinkedIn or send us a message.
• 41:42
  Together, we can make water work for
• 41:44
  everyone.