Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre. Perps face electric chair?

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Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre. Perps face electric chair? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a
0:15
Speaker 1: major development in the case of three guys who go
0:20
Speaker 1: fishing on a late night fishing trip, been friends since
0:22
Speaker 1: high school, get massacred. We are learning not only did
0:29
Speaker 1: the killers the executioners go out for McDonald's cheeseburgers after
0:36
Speaker 1: the bloody massacre of three innocent guys, but the state
0:41
Speaker 1: is now seeking the death penalty Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
1:00
Speaker 1: It's actually very rare for the state to go forward
1:04
Speaker 1: in a death penalty prosecution. What makes this case different
1:09
Speaker 1: from all the others? Take a listen to this. The
1:12
Speaker 1: parents of twenty seven year old Brandon Rollins, who was
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Speaker 1: shot and left bloodied in the roadway and pulled County
1:19
Speaker 1: over the weekend. His father recalling his final moments because
1:23
Speaker 1: he got the phone call from his son not long
1:26
Speaker 1: after he was shot. Cyril Rawlins says the moment he
1:31
Speaker 1: realized his son was calling, he knew it was bad news.
1:34
Speaker 1: He don't never call my foam at all unlessie have
1:38
Speaker 1: trebor or something would be going down. When he answered,
1:41
Speaker 1: his fears were realized. He say, help Daddy, Help Daddy.
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Speaker 1: Cyril knew his twenty seven year old son, Brandon Rawlins,
1:49
Speaker 1: was out fishing on Lake Streety with two friends, twenty
1:52
Speaker 1: three year old Damian Tilman in thirty year old Kevin Springfield.
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Speaker 1: He rushed to the scene where he found his son
1:58
Speaker 1: shot and bloodied in the roadway. Well, when I got there,
2:02
Speaker 1: I didn't have a phone at all. I didn't know
2:04
Speaker 1: what to do. He was tulkin and all that. As
2:10
Speaker 1: a son, I got to leave you. I got to
2:12
Speaker 1: go get some help. He was pretty bad, he was
2:15
Speaker 1: too bloody. Can you imagine that father's anguish with me
2:21
Speaker 1: an all star panel to break it down and put
2:24
Speaker 1: it back together again. First of all, renowned California criminal
2:28
Speaker 1: defense attorney Laura Uretsi in joining US psychologist Karen Start
2:35
Speaker 1: joining me from Manhattan. You can find her at Karen
2:38
Speaker 1: Stark dot com. Chris Buyer's former chief of Police John's Creek,
2:43
Speaker 1: twenty five years on the force, now private investigator at
2:47
Speaker 1: polygrapher at Chris Buyers Investigations and polygraph dot com. You
2:52
Speaker 1: know him well, Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for
2:56
Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida, and Caputo lead news anchor
3:02
Speaker 1: Orlando at w DBO. Think about it just this morning
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Speaker 1: everybody was getting ready for work in school, and I
3:12
Speaker 1: heard my son, John David my call out, Mom, Mom.
3:17
Speaker 1: I dropped everything I was doing. His voice sounds so alarmed,
3:23
Speaker 1: and I ran and he went, mom, I dropped my drink.
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Speaker 1: Just that's such a small, trite example, Karen Stark Psychologists
3:34
Speaker 1: joining me out of Manhattan. But there's something when when
3:38
Speaker 1: your child calls you and you can tell something's wrong,
3:41
Speaker 1: just like this dad. As soon as his son said Daddy, help,
3:46
Speaker 1: he knew something was terribly wrong. He didn't even have
3:48
Speaker 1: to hear the rest of the conversation. Nancy, that's the
3:51
Speaker 1: part of the story that is most compelling, I think,
3:55
Speaker 1: and horrific, because just like you, there is nothing the
4:00
Speaker 1: bond between the parents and the child, or it hes
4:03
Speaker 1: that's what you hope. And here is a story, really,
4:06
Speaker 1: a stunningly disgusting, horrible story of a father who's with
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Speaker 1: his son and can do nothing to help him. And
4:15
Speaker 1: think about it, it makes worse that he couldn't. He
4:18
Speaker 1: didn't bring his phone, he rushed out, he forgot his phone.
4:23
Speaker 1: I could just picture it, can't you, And he can't
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Speaker 1: find his son's phone and can do nothing to help him.
4:29
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh, I can hardly take it in.
4:32
Speaker 1: You know, I want to go to Ray Caputo right now,
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Speaker 1: lead news anchor or Orlando News WDBO. Take me back
4:39
Speaker 1: to that night. Who are the three victims, Damien Tillman,
4:43
Speaker 1: Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rawlins. They had all been best buddies
4:47
Speaker 1: for a long time, right, Yeah, they grew up together,
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Speaker 1: Nancy and Frost, Proof of Florida. That's this little community.
4:53
Speaker 1: It's about an hour and a half south of Orlando's
4:56
Speaker 1: really picturesque. It's it's this narrow striple in between two
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Speaker 1: lakes and three friends. You know, they're pretty much of
5:02
Speaker 1: their twenties. Kevin was thirty. But they'd all known each
5:05
Speaker 1: other and there was a small, tight knit community. So
5:08
Speaker 1: it's a Friday night and they do what a lot
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Speaker 1: of people in Florida do, a little night fishing, you know,
5:12
Speaker 1: summer night, beautiful July summer night. And they go and
5:15
Speaker 1: they meet up and then this problem, this problem out
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Speaker 1: of nowhere. It's a very chance meeting, but it just
5:22
Speaker 1: explodes into a big tragedy. You know, Chief Buyers. When
5:25
Speaker 1: I heard the three were out late at night and
5:29
Speaker 1: when they were shot, my first thought was, oh, nothing good.
5:32
Speaker 1: Happens after midnight. They're at partying, they've been at some nightclub,
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Speaker 1: everybody's drunk, and this shooting happens. Not to blame the victim,
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Speaker 1: but I got it. That's what I first thought had
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Speaker 1: happened when I heard the late night outing. That's not
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Speaker 1: at all what happened, Chief, Buyers. You know, my twins
5:52
Speaker 1: and my husband and I do a lot of camping
5:55
Speaker 1: and rvying. One of my favorite things to do is
5:59
Speaker 1: to go out star gays late at night. And I'm
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Speaker 1: just imagining these three guys out planning to be out
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Speaker 1: on the water under the stars. So there was nothing
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Speaker 1: nefarious at all, Chief about these guys being out night fishing. No,
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Speaker 1: not at all. I myself just drove them back to
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Speaker 1: Atlanta from camp in the last four days, and every
6:20
Speaker 1: night when it got late and clear, I took a
6:23
Speaker 1: walk to go gaze up at the stars. I mean, so,
6:25
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. And yeah, here's
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Speaker 1: three friends that are just going out having a good
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Speaker 1: time fishing and meet their demias. It's just it's absolutely sickening.
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Speaker 1: You know, so often when we go to court, you
6:39
Speaker 1: have a victim that you know you got to take
6:44
Speaker 1: your victims as you find them, but sometime you got
6:47
Speaker 1: a little explaining to do to a jury. And I
6:49
Speaker 1: always use Jackie the example of one of the first
6:52
Speaker 1: agasalt robberies I had. It was a stripper dressed as
6:56
Speaker 1: a cheerleader going at like four am from the strip
7:00
Speaker 1: club to her car and she got robbed. Now, you know,
7:03
Speaker 1: not me, but a lot of people will get into
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Speaker 1: judging her morally. I don't want anybody to judge me morally,
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Speaker 1: so I stay out of that business. That is not
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Speaker 1: my business. But these victims, chief buyers are scrubbed in sunshine.
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Speaker 1: You don't see that all the time in court, No
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Speaker 1: you don't. Yeah, I was thinking back as you were
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Speaker 1: talking to them many times that I've had victims that
7:27
Speaker 1: were either a drug deal gone bad or you know,
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Speaker 1: home invasion where there was something in the house that
7:33
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. But yeah, these victims, we're doing absolutely nothing wrong.
7:37
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. Now we find out about
7:40
Speaker 1: a twist and a story and a convenience store taking
7:44
Speaker 1: listen our friends at Fox thirteen. This is Jennifer Holton.
7:47
Speaker 1: Cyril hopped back into his car driving to a convenience
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Speaker 1: store to call nine one one and then rush back
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Speaker 1: to the scene. He says that's when he heard his
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Speaker 1: son's phone ringing inside of his truck to see we
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Speaker 1: could bug It was cod on Bud and I got
8:02
Speaker 1: the phone and it was his mom. I said, please, Daddy,
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Speaker 1: how sound is gone? He did, but all three men
8:13
Speaker 1: were dead before ems arrived. We still don't have arrest
8:18
Speaker 1: at this moment, Sheriff Judd saying Monday, investigators had received
8:22
Speaker 1: well over a hundred tips, but they're hoping now that
8:25
Speaker 1: an increased reward makes a difference. There's a reward of
8:30
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars at this moment in time just for
8:36
Speaker 1: information that leads to the arrest of these horrific criminals,
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Speaker 1: and arrest that Cyril says could bring justice for his family.
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Speaker 1: That was my only son. I'll never have a grand
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Speaker 1: another grand child, nothing, my lfe is gone. Trying to
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Speaker 1: nail down the sequence of events that night, let us
9:00
Speaker 1: hear from the horse's mouth is the Pooh County Sheriff
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Speaker 1: share of a greedy ja. Listen. His father, who was
9:06
Speaker 1: home in bed asleep, heard the call from his son,
9:10
Speaker 1: knew where they were fishing, jumped up, got dressed, drove
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Speaker 1: here immediately. He's about ten minutes away in the frost
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Speaker 1: Proof community. When he arrived, he saw this horrific scene
9:23
Speaker 1: of where all these young men had been shot up.
9:28
Speaker 1: In Brandon's father's excitement to run to and help his son,
9:34
Speaker 1: he forgot his cell phone at home. So now he's
9:37
Speaker 1: out in the middle as you can see, of no
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Speaker 1: place without any communications. So he hopped back in his
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Speaker 1: vehicle and went to Sunray, which is on Highway twenty seven.
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Speaker 1: Ran into the convenience store. They all know each other
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Speaker 1: in this area. My son needs help. Seventeen year old
10:01
Speaker 1: young lady who's the daughter of the convenience store attended
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Speaker 1: at that time, jumps in the vehicle with Brandon's father
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Speaker 1: and they come back to the scene. Crime Stories with
10:21
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about stunning development that
10:27
Speaker 1: has gone down in the last hours in the case
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Speaker 1: of three young guys friends who go night fishing down
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Speaker 1: in Florida and end up through no fault of their own,
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Speaker 1: being ambushed and massacred. But why we also now know
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Speaker 1: the announcement has just been made the state will seek
10:50
Speaker 1: the death penalty on the alleged killers who reportedly after
10:56
Speaker 1: the massacre of three guys out fishing, go and top
11:01
Speaker 1: it off with a dozen cheeseburgers. Obviously, mass murder did
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Speaker 1: not affect their appetite. Law Arretsen, you're there now, criminal
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Speaker 1: defense attorney, How are you going to explain that to
11:17
Speaker 1: the jury. But if I'm thinking the position that I'm
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Speaker 1: helping or I'm defending these guys, our position would be
11:25
Speaker 1: that this was a sudden quarrel, something that happened at
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Speaker 1: the moment they argued, and it's more in the voluntary
11:33
Speaker 1: manslaughter range. But of course, if I'm looking at it
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Speaker 1: from a different perspective, I would say having that kindem
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Speaker 1: an appetite after this kind of a massacre is not
11:45
Speaker 1: going to help the defendants in this case. I mean,
11:48
Speaker 1: it's almost like they were celebrating. They didn't care that
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Speaker 1: three people were dead, and they'd left them there dying.
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Speaker 1: So I can just see that as a horrific fact.
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Speaker 1: Not helping. That really not helping, TJ. We're getting these
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Speaker 1: guys seemingly celebrated after a massacre Dan in Florida by
12:09
Speaker 1: heading to McDonald's to get ten McDonald's cheese. You know
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Speaker 1: you're right, Laura, And there's something about it, no matter
12:19
Speaker 1: what the facts were reportedly, the cops say they've got
12:24
Speaker 1: the shooters, the shooters, the fact that they're out scarf
12:29
Speaker 1: and now cheeseburgers after I mean, how do you explain
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Speaker 1: the cheeseburgers. Yeah, that's I'm with you on that. That's
12:37
Speaker 1: a tough one to explain. But again, I mean, if
12:41
Speaker 1: we get that's something that the jury is going to
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Speaker 1: hate about the individuals, but then they would have to
12:46
Speaker 1: put bottom line as though the bottom line is that
12:49
Speaker 1: the jury is gonna have to look at the facts
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Speaker 1: and decide if this was something that was planned, premeditated,
12:54
Speaker 1: or if this was something that it was supposed to
12:57
Speaker 1: be just a discussion or maybe in our argument and
13:00
Speaker 1: it became heated and the decision to kill happened as
13:05
Speaker 1: a result of that. It wasn't premeditated. There wasn't no
13:07
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, lawyer, rats, Yeah, I assume in California
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Speaker 1: you abide by the law as it is recognized across
13:14
Speaker 1: the rest of the United States, including Hawaii and Alaska,
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Speaker 1: and that is, premeditation can be formed in the blink
13:21
Speaker 1: of an eye or the twinkling of an instant. The
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Speaker 1: time it takes to raise the gun and pull the triggers.
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Speaker 1: That's enough time for premeditation. You're right, we don't need
13:29
Speaker 1: a lot of time for premeditation. But you have also
13:32
Speaker 1: a very strong argument here that this was an argument,
13:36
Speaker 1: It was a heated argument, it was a sudden quarrel,
13:39
Speaker 1: and it turned into a feeling or a massacre. Unfortunately.
13:43
Speaker 1: Let's see what we can find out. That's an argument
13:45
Speaker 1: that din't. Yeah, that's an art. You gotta make some
13:48
Speaker 1: kind of argument. You can't just line up at the
13:51
Speaker 1: death chamber and say, Okay, a defense attorney is going
13:54
Speaker 1: to get in here and fight till the finish, regardless
13:56
Speaker 1: of what we may think about their argument. Take a
13:59
Speaker 1: listen to Jenni Norman at ABC. Around ten pm Friday,
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Speaker 1: twenty three year old Damien Tillman arrived to the remote
14:07
Speaker 1: area to go fishing with his friends. Officials saying as
14:10
Speaker 1: he was being murdered, thirty year old Kevin Springfield and
14:14
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Brandon Rollins showed up and were shot.
14:17
Speaker 1: Rollins making that phone call. When he arrived, he saw
14:21
Speaker 1: this horrific scene of where all these young men had
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Speaker 1: been shot up. What the murders also didn't count On
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Speaker 1: is Brandon had the opportunity to talk to his dad
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Speaker 1: before he died. The sheriff saying the victim's father, in
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Speaker 1: a panic, left his cell phone at home and upon
14:39
Speaker 1: finding the gruesome scene and his son still clinging to life,
14:43
Speaker 1: leaving his son at the scene and driving to a
14:46
Speaker 1: convenience store to call nine one one. By the time
14:49
Speaker 1: help arrived, all three men were dead. But now, you know,
14:54
Speaker 1: you may say in your mind, why what ensued? How
14:59
Speaker 1: did the locate these three guys in this remote area
15:05
Speaker 1: fishing at night? To Ray Kiputo, lead news anchor or
15:09
Speaker 1: Orlando Morning News, debdb Oh, tell me again about the
15:12
Speaker 1: location where they're doing the fishing. It's Lake streeting, Nancy.
15:17
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of remote. It's not far from you know,
15:20
Speaker 1: the downtown frost Proof area. But because that, you know,
15:23
Speaker 1: the city itself is in the town is remote in itself.
15:27
Speaker 1: You know, Lake streety is off the beaten path. There
15:30
Speaker 1: isn't a lot around. It actually is a dirt road
15:32
Speaker 1: that you have to take to get there. So this
15:34
Speaker 1: was very remote and the time of night when there
15:37
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of people around to begin with. Then
15:40
Speaker 1: it seems to me that. There's no other way around it.
15:43
Speaker 1: Chris Buyer's former police chief. Chief, There's no way around
15:48
Speaker 1: it other than they must have followed them there. Now,
15:53
Speaker 1: to me, that makes them the aggressor. Oh, absolutely, Yeah.
15:56
Speaker 1: When you talk about premeditation, they followed them there. I mean,
16:00
Speaker 1: there's no you're talking about. It can happen in an instant.
16:04
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how far it is from from where
16:06
Speaker 1: they were followed, but the fact that they got in
16:08
Speaker 1: a car to purposely follow there, Yeah, well I got
16:11
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea. Chief, take a listen to share
16:15
Speaker 1: for Grady. Nine fifty six. In the evening, Damien is
16:21
Speaker 1: checking out of the store with his product. He is
16:29
Speaker 1: followed out of the store by TJ, who checks out
16:33
Speaker 1: about fifteen seconds later, and he's also followed by his
16:44
Speaker 1: brother and his girlfriend. At ten o six pm. Only
16:51
Speaker 1: ten minutes later, Brandon, who is now in the white
16:57
Speaker 1: pickup truck, frantically calls his dad and says, help and
17:03
Speaker 1: I've already talked to you. How dad ran to the
17:06
Speaker 1: scene only to find the massacre. At the scene, Only
17:12
Speaker 1: ten minutes passed from the time the three victims, Damien Tillman,
17:16
Speaker 1: Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins leave a Dollar General and also
17:24
Speaker 1: there t J. Wiggins, Mary Whittemore, and Robert Wiggins. That's
17:30
Speaker 1: no coincidence, but what could have happened and the Dollar General?
17:35
Speaker 1: Listen to WFLA news reporter Stacy to Silva, everybody wanted
17:39
Speaker 1: to know was this random or were these men targeted?
17:43
Speaker 1: The sheriff said today that a chance encounter at a
17:46
Speaker 1: Frostproof Dollar General led to a massacre. Three people are
17:50
Speaker 1: now in custody. They have solved the case. Sheriff Grady
17:55
Speaker 1: Judd offering answers about a doomed Polk County fishing trip.
17:59
Speaker 1: This is the who directly did the damage. His name's
18:03
Speaker 1: Tony Wiggins. He's an oist TJ. The sheriff says. Friday night, Wiggins,
18:07
Speaker 1: his girlfriend Mary Whitmore, and his brother Robert went to
18:11
Speaker 1: this Dollar General in Frostproof. In front of them in
18:14
Speaker 1: line to check out was Damian Tilman, one of the victims.
18:18
Speaker 1: Video shows Tilman and Wiggins appearing to have a cordial conversation.
18:22
Speaker 1: Tilman mentions to the clerk, He's meeting up with Kevin
18:25
Speaker 1: Springfield to go fishing prime stories with Nancy Grace. We
18:42
Speaker 1: are talking about the brutal massacre of three young guys,
18:46
Speaker 1: best friends from the get go all the way back
18:49
Speaker 1: to high school. They go out night flot fishing in
18:52
Speaker 1: a remote area. While they're fishing, they are attacked and
18:56
Speaker 1: massacred by According to police Wiggins rap sheet, as long
19:02
Speaker 1: as I seventy five Mary Whitmore, the girlfriend, the brother
19:07
Speaker 1: Robert Wiggins, a dollar general where no eel words were exchanged,
19:15
Speaker 1: that one of the victims happens to mention we're going
19:19
Speaker 1: night fishing. Is that all? It took? A chance? Encounter
19:23
Speaker 1: ends like this. Take a listen to this. TJ, someone
19:29
Speaker 1: who his criminal history should shock your conscience. It does mine.
19:36
Speaker 1: TJ started to be arrested when he was twelve years old.
19:41
Speaker 1: He is currently only twenty six years old. TJ has
19:46
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty felony criminal charges in his arrest history.
19:55
Speaker 1: I didn't stutter. He had two hundred and thir charges
20:01
Speaker 1: in his arrest history, fifteen convictions and two times to
20:07
Speaker 1: state prison at only twenty six. There's a picture of
20:12
Speaker 1: Tony Wiggins. Here's the real Tony Wiggins. He's a FuG,
20:21
Speaker 1: he's a criminal, He's pure evil in the flesh. To you,
20:27
Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo WDBA. Why was this guy with two hundred
20:31
Speaker 1: and thirty entries on his rap sheet out walking free
20:36
Speaker 1: at what happened at the Dollar General? If anything? Well, Nancy,
20:41
Speaker 1: why t J. Wiggins is on on the street is
20:43
Speaker 1: a million dollar question because he absolutely shouldn't have been.
20:46
Speaker 1: The guy was troubled, Please stop, could have, would have,
20:50
Speaker 1: should have. I wouldna shoot myself in the foot if
20:52
Speaker 1: I hear that again. He should have been in jail. Okay,
20:55
Speaker 1: go ahead, not your fault, You're just a messenger, right. Well,
20:59
Speaker 1: it really was an innocuus encounter because Kevin was he
21:04
Speaker 1: uh sorry, Brandon was in a Dollar General and he's
21:08
Speaker 1: talking to the clerk, you know, a little bit of
21:10
Speaker 1: back and forth, and they're behind him TJ. And in
21:14
Speaker 1: the rest of the game, and they hear him say
21:16
Speaker 1: that he's going fishing. Now. Meanwhile, TJ has he has
21:20
Speaker 1: a thing for one of the friends. He has a
21:22
Speaker 1: thing for Kevin Springfield, who he knows Brandon is gonna
21:26
Speaker 1: be with. Because and this is this is where all
21:29
Speaker 1: this happened. Over a truck. TJ thought that Kevin stole
21:32
Speaker 1: a truck and wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
21:35
Speaker 1: wait when you talk about defendants such as t. J. Wiggins,
21:40
Speaker 1: the one with the two hundred and thirty entries on
21:42
Speaker 1: his rap sheet by their first name. I mean, are
21:45
Speaker 1: you guys friends, are you expecting him over for dinner
21:48
Speaker 1: anytime soon? Okay, So you've got Tony t J. Wiggins,
21:51
Speaker 1: age twenty six, the brother William Robert Wiggins, age twenty one,
21:57
Speaker 1: and the girlfriend Mary witten Moore, age twenty seven. They're
22:02
Speaker 1: the defendants. So you're telling me defendant Tony t J.
22:06
Speaker 1: Wiggins age twenty six found the guy that taken his truck. Yep.
22:10
Speaker 1: He thought that Kevin Springfield had not only stolen the truck,
22:13
Speaker 1: but he had sold an engine, and he was upset.
22:16
Speaker 1: He was out to find Kevin, and he'd been looking
22:19
Speaker 1: for him, and this was his chance. He thought that
22:22
Speaker 1: the game was going to be over at this Lake
22:25
Speaker 1: Street to do a little night fishing, and he thought
22:28
Speaker 1: it would have been an opportunity to confront Kevin and
22:31
Speaker 1: see if he possibly could get the engine to his
22:33
Speaker 1: truck back. Now we don't even know to this point
22:36
Speaker 1: of that even happened or not, but TJ. Certainly thought
22:38
Speaker 1: that it did. So in his mind, He's found the
22:41
Speaker 1: guy that took the engine out of his truck. Yes,
22:45
Speaker 1: and so he follows them, and he somehow cajoles the
22:50
Speaker 1: other two to go with him. They follow these guys
22:53
Speaker 1: to a remote area near frost Proof, Florida, and the
22:58
Speaker 1: bullets began to fly out. An update for your law,
23:01
Speaker 1: you're at sea in criminal defense turning out of California.
23:04
Speaker 1: It was a dozen McDonald's cheese and two mac chickens.
23:12
Speaker 1: Ten cheese, two mc chickens. So they actually thought through
23:17
Speaker 1: their menu and they decide that's what they would get.
23:21
Speaker 1: They are no more worried about the three dead bodies
23:24
Speaker 1: than the man in the moon. I can just see
23:27
Speaker 1: the prosecutors starting the opening statement and the clothing statement
23:32
Speaker 1: was that. I could see them just flashing I'm starting
23:35
Speaker 1: with the McDonald's menu and going through it. I only
23:39
Speaker 1: wish that that was on. I'm sure they do have
23:43
Speaker 1: the McDonald's video. I'd love to hear them ordering. And
23:47
Speaker 1: you know why. I know you may think I'm making
23:50
Speaker 1: a big deal out of it, but Karen start, you're
23:53
Speaker 1: the shrink. It's going to show they're very calm frame
23:58
Speaker 1: of mind after a triple homicide, a bloody crime, saying
24:04
Speaker 1: they leave for the dad A Brandon Watt rollins to
24:07
Speaker 1: come upon. Well, there's no doubt Nancy death. We're talking
24:12
Speaker 1: about psychopaths. So here's the thing that's so hard for
24:17
Speaker 1: people to understand. The psychopath says what he or she
24:21
Speaker 1: wants without anxiety, any regret or regard for the suffering
24:26
Speaker 1: of others. So if you think about that, it makes
24:29
Speaker 1: perfect sense that they're able to have this meal and
24:32
Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoy it because as far as they are concerned,
24:36
Speaker 1: this is just another day. They're hungry and it's time
24:39
Speaker 1: to eat a whole bunch of food. To medical examiner
24:44
Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida, that is not easy
24:48
Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, what do we know,
24:53
Speaker 1: if anything, about the injuries of these three victims. Well,
24:57
Speaker 1: we know that each of the victims suffered multiple gunshot wounds.
25:01
Speaker 1: Some of the gunshot wounds to their body, to their
25:04
Speaker 1: chest that had gone through their lungs and through their heart,
25:07
Speaker 1: and there were some gunshot wounds reported through their head.
25:12
Speaker 1: You know, So these were these were wounds that were
25:17
Speaker 1: this was an assault that was meant to kill them.
25:19
Speaker 1: It wasn't meant to send a warning or anything like that.
25:22
Speaker 1: They hit center body mass, and they were looking to
25:25
Speaker 1: kill these people without any regard for them living afterwards.
25:29
Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher. It's my understanding, and please correct me if
25:34
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. There is likely no way to determine which
25:40
Speaker 1: of the shots was that a stomach shot, a leg shot,
25:43
Speaker 1: at arm shot were first. That that's correct, Nancy, It's
25:48
Speaker 1: very difficult to determine that. The best that we can
25:50
Speaker 1: do is say that they occurred at about the same time.
25:54
Speaker 1: I guess the only way you may be able to
25:57
Speaker 1: tell that. And because they were so I believe they were.
26:00
Speaker 1: They were so quick in such quick succession. For instance,
26:05
Speaker 1: if you had shot the person in the head and
26:08
Speaker 1: then a period of seconds forty five sixty seconds had passed,
26:12
Speaker 1: you shot them again, the follow up shots may not
26:16
Speaker 1: have bled because well, right, it can be true or
26:20
Speaker 1: cannot be true. Just because the bullet destroys the brain
26:24
Speaker 1: does not mean that the heart immediately stops beating. It
26:28
Speaker 1: can continue to beat for up to a minute afterwards,
26:31
Speaker 1: still pumping blood to the rest of the body. So
26:34
Speaker 1: know that you just taught me something new. I love that,
26:36
Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher. And an adult male average weight, there's about
26:39
Speaker 1: five quarts of blood. Little ragallon and it takes you
26:43
Speaker 1: have to lose about about two quarts or so before
26:48
Speaker 1: you're rendered unconscious, and then your organs begin to suffer.
26:51
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking of a milk jug, a gallon milk jug.
26:56
Speaker 1: They've got about that much blood in our bodies. We
26:59
Speaker 1: do it a little bit more too, a little bit more, Okay.
27:03
Speaker 1: Do you think with all of these multiple gunshot wounds,
27:07
Speaker 1: these three victims sustained, do you think they bled out
27:11
Speaker 1: or would they cause of death? Well, I guess it
27:13
Speaker 1: would be the gunshot to the head. Obviously that was
27:15
Speaker 1: a right. Well, that was a question I would have
27:17
Speaker 1: prepared for trial, but then not asked because the lung
27:22
Speaker 1: is a gunshot to the lungs to the tour So
27:23
Speaker 1: typically what happens is the lungs fill up with blood
27:26
Speaker 1: and the victim actually drowned in their own blood. Crime
27:45
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace guys. In the last hours, a
27:52
Speaker 1: major announcement has been made in the case of three
27:54
Speaker 1: buddies that go night fishing down off the Florida coast.
27:58
Speaker 1: They're just out having a good time. There's no drugs,
28:01
Speaker 1: there's no drinking, there's nothing nefarious going on. They've known
28:05
Speaker 1: each other since high school. This is their idea of
28:07
Speaker 1: a good time night fishing. It was not meant to be.
28:11
Speaker 1: Enter three predators think the savannah and the gazelle are
28:20
Speaker 1: drinking at the pool of water, and in the distance
28:24
Speaker 1: you see hyena circling up on them, and they wait
28:30
Speaker 1: and pounce. These three guys had no idea what was
28:34
Speaker 1: about to happen. And now the announcement the death penalty
28:38
Speaker 1: will be sought. To Rayka Puto, lead news anchor W DBO, Ray,
28:43
Speaker 1: what is the mode of DP in Florida? I assume
28:47
Speaker 1: the needle the electrature, right. I believe that it is
28:53
Speaker 1: the needle, as I recall there's a guy in Florida
28:57
Speaker 1: by the nickname Tiny and its head caught on fire
29:01
Speaker 1: during an execution via electric chair, and then they quickly
29:06
Speaker 1: switched to the needle. Is that right needle? I'm not
29:09
Speaker 1: going to even show you how she's acting in out. Okay,
29:11
Speaker 1: you could have just mouthed at Jackie, but the needle.
29:15
Speaker 1: So do we know, Ray Caputer, why this case? Of
29:19
Speaker 1: course it qualified? Hold on, Ray, let me throw to
29:21
Speaker 1: our lawyer, renowned criminal defense attorney joining us out of California. Hey, Laura.
29:26
Speaker 1: If I'm ever in criminal trouble, God help me in California.
29:30
Speaker 1: I'm calling you. I have your cell phone number, just
29:32
Speaker 1: so you know that, Laura. California also has the death penalty,
29:37
Speaker 1: although it's very rarely used. In fact, I think needs
29:39
Speaker 1: to put a moratorium on it. But there has to
29:42
Speaker 1: be aggravating circumstances for the state to decide they're going
29:46
Speaker 1: to seek the death penalty. Explain right, I mean, and
29:48
Speaker 1: this is I mean, it's a case is appropriate for
29:51
Speaker 1: a death penalty. I'm looking at it from the prosecutor
29:54
Speaker 1: prosecution's point of view, this would be one. I mean,
29:57
Speaker 1: we're talking about a massacre. Three guys are fishing trip
30:02
Speaker 1: and are all killed. I understand one of them had
30:06
Speaker 1: an issue with Tony T. J. Wiggins, but what was
30:10
Speaker 1: the problem with the other two? And we're dealing with
30:12
Speaker 1: someone who's got and you talk about a long rap sheet.
30:16
Speaker 1: We call ten convictions ten charges sometimes long grade. I
30:21
Speaker 1: bet you don't have any charges. I bet you don't
30:23
Speaker 1: have a single infraction on your wrap shat, I bet
30:25
Speaker 1: you don't even have a rap sheet, right, So ten
30:28
Speaker 1: is kind of stretching even one conviction. To me, it
30:31
Speaker 1: is one too many exactly. But we're talking about two
30:34
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty charges. That's the length of a block probably,
30:38
Speaker 1: so we're en fifteen convictions too Senson State Prison. We're
30:42
Speaker 1: talking about a hardscore criminal who's on the streets, and
30:45
Speaker 1: that's not a very sympathetic figure. And it's you know,
30:48
Speaker 1: and I can see from the prosecution's point of view
30:51
Speaker 1: an argument that is cold blooded shooting three people and
30:54
Speaker 1: then going ahead after that having ten jam Manti Donald's chicken,
31:02
Speaker 1: that in most juristactions, the aggravating circumstances are very similar.
31:07
Speaker 1: And tell me this is true. We're not, for California,
31:09
Speaker 1: for instance, mass murder and that really just means more
31:12
Speaker 1: than one body you've got that's an aggravating circumstance that
31:15
Speaker 1: would justify seeking the death penalty. And this is not
31:18
Speaker 1: do you agree or disagree with the death penalty. It's
31:21
Speaker 1: about the fact they are seeking the death penalty in
31:23
Speaker 1: this case. And Jackie has now corrected us both you
31:27
Speaker 1: have a choice in Florida, you can get the chair
31:29
Speaker 1: or the needle. But mass murder lying in wait, which
31:36
Speaker 1: shows a cool clear head at the time of our
31:38
Speaker 1: murder murder for higher monetary pecuniary interest if you're in
31:43
Speaker 1: it from money. Let's see um in the commission of
31:47
Speaker 1: certain felonies such as rape, aggravated assault, murdering a political
31:53
Speaker 1: figure or a cop automatically, that can be grounds to
31:59
Speaker 1: seek the death. Those are particularly heinous, which I think
32:03
Speaker 1: is a catchall, because any murder is heinous, but that
32:08
Speaker 1: can be used as an underlying aggravating circumstance. And when
32:13
Speaker 1: the state announces they're going to seek the DP, they outline,
32:17
Speaker 1: they lay out what the aggravating circumstance is. What do
32:22
Speaker 1: we really know about the alleged perps? Take listen to
32:27
Speaker 1: Dave Matt at crime Online. When detectives located the suspects,
32:31
Speaker 1: they were living in a family compound of camper trailers
32:34
Speaker 1: not far from the murder scene. They were living off
32:36
Speaker 1: the grid with no running water, no electricity, using generators
32:40
Speaker 1: for power. T J. Wiggins and his girlfriend live in
32:43
Speaker 1: one of the travel trailers. His brother had another. With
32:46
Speaker 1: a search warrant, police found two SKS rifles, two Mossberg shotguns,
32:51
Speaker 1: and ammunition for both in a gun safe belonging to T. J. Wiggins.
32:56
Speaker 1: The ammunition found there, police say was the same ammunition
32:59
Speaker 1: fired from the gun and the murders a Smith and
33:01
Speaker 1: Wesson handgun. Tracing the suspects movement after the killings, police
33:05
Speaker 1: say the three suspects drove to McDonald's, ordered ten double
33:09
Speaker 1: cheeseburgers to mc chicken sandwiches, and then went home to eat.
33:13
Speaker 1: The next morning, Robert Wiggins took the truck he was
33:15
Speaker 1: driving to a car wash to get the road clay off.
33:18
Speaker 1: They thought to get the road clay off, Chief Chris Buyers,
33:24
Speaker 1: what does that tell you? And you made the perfect
33:27
Speaker 1: analogy a few minutes ago with them a Hyaena being
33:30
Speaker 1: in wait because we were talking about just animals here
33:34
Speaker 1: and showing that their mindset after they commit this this
33:38
Speaker 1: heinous crumb, going to eat afterwards, and then getting the
33:43
Speaker 1: clay off of the truck, it all shows that they
33:46
Speaker 1: did exactly what they set out to do. This wasn't
33:48
Speaker 1: an argument gone bad. They set out to murder this
33:52
Speaker 1: person and these three individuals and to cover up their
33:55
Speaker 1: crime afterwards. Absolutely too. Doctor Tim Gallagher, a medical exam er,
33:59
Speaker 1: state floor that clay that they thought they were washing
34:04
Speaker 1: off their vehicle is very important. Why. Oh, it's very
34:07
Speaker 1: important because each part of the country has a different
34:11
Speaker 1: composition of dirt or material are that the roads are
34:15
Speaker 1: made from. So you could actually trace the exact clay
34:21
Speaker 1: to the exact location where where the crime was committed
34:25
Speaker 1: by doing a chemical analysis of the clay. If the
34:27
Speaker 1: clay on the truck matches the clay at the scene,
34:30
Speaker 1: then that truck was definitely at the scene. Absolutely, You're
34:34
Speaker 1: absolutely right, And I know that when you are conducting autopsies,
34:39
Speaker 1: very carefully keep and secure and preserve for instance, clothing, shoes,
34:47
Speaker 1: any residue or clay or dirt you thought on the
34:49
Speaker 1: body for forensic proof, just like what we're talking about.
34:54
Speaker 1: And now another specter as to motive raises its head
34:59
Speaker 1: to take a listen to Jeff Patterson a WLA eight.
35:03
Speaker 1: Jessica Steenson cannot hold back her tears or her anger
35:07
Speaker 1: when talking about her boyfriend Brandon Rawlins murder who we
35:10
Speaker 1: never knew they would never do this. Brandon Rollins father
35:14
Speaker 1: came to the scene of his son's murder and held
35:16
Speaker 1: him as he died. Today, the family watched his sheriff
35:20
Speaker 1: Grady Judd, explained how Brandon Rollins, Kevin Springfield, and David
35:24
Speaker 1: Tilman were killed and who he believes is responsible. Cyril
35:28
Speaker 1: Rawlins had nothing good to say about accused killer t J. Wiggins.
35:32
Speaker 1: It's way day rays. You know what, they followed the
35:35
Speaker 1: father and mother. That's the way they're gonna ray. Brandon's
35:38
Speaker 1: mother says she's known t J. Wiggins for most of
35:41
Speaker 1: his life. He was always a rough kid, always in trouble.
35:44
Speaker 1: Dottie Peyton tells aid, on your side, she's suspected from
35:47
Speaker 1: the beginning. Who is responsible? I had suspicion means no
35:53
Speaker 1: one my son this was there. The family strongly spects
36:00
Speaker 1: drugs are to blame their drug heads. They could have
36:04
Speaker 1: been high out their mind. Who knows. Just here and
36:08
Speaker 1: the parents crying like that, looking for answers. So we
36:13
Speaker 1: know for a fact, and I don't think this will
36:16
Speaker 1: be prejudicial at trial and it will come into evidence.
36:19
Speaker 1: And these three were quote living off the grid, What
36:23
Speaker 1: does that mean to you, Karen Start who lives off
36:25
Speaker 1: the grid? Living up the grid, Nancy means that they
36:29
Speaker 1: were not using regular electricity. They were, you know, just
36:35
Speaker 1: setting things up without having to pay any money. So
36:39
Speaker 1: they're really outlaws. They're really deciding that they're going to
36:44
Speaker 1: have their own little community and not be a part
36:47
Speaker 1: of the way society normally functions. Some people will call
36:50
Speaker 1: that anti social. The drugs if they were high out
36:56
Speaker 1: of their minds. Voluntary use of drugs are alcohol not
36:59
Speaker 1: a defense. I want you to hear mckennaking talking to
37:03
Speaker 1: a family w FTS ABC Action. The death penty is
37:07
Speaker 1: definitely number one priority. The family of Brandon Rowlands, one
37:12
Speaker 1: of the victims, watching the hearing from outside the South
37:14
Speaker 1: County jail. His father, the first person on scene after
37:17
Speaker 1: the shootings, replaying Brandon's final moments over and over in
37:21
Speaker 1: his head. He could call anybody now, I'm on one
37:24
Speaker 1: or anything, but they did. This is called me. He
37:27
Speaker 1: knows anything's gonna be here. His mother, describing Brandon as
37:30
Speaker 1: an out going mama's boy. When I go back to work,
37:34
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get that phone call on the
37:36
Speaker 1: way home. Mom, I'm off work, Come pick me up.
37:41
Speaker 1: I'm not going to add a chance no more to
37:43
Speaker 1: get the pick him up, So it's gonna be very hard,
37:48
Speaker 1: she says. The three victims grew up together, spending much
37:50
Speaker 1: of their time on the lake. His girlfriend Jessica often
37:53
Speaker 1: tagged along too well. I would dude, just her five
37:56
Speaker 1: more minutes with him on a boat trying to fight
37:59
Speaker 1: a catch of fish. That's one of the things she'll
38:01
Speaker 1: miss the most. Take your time with your family and
38:05
Speaker 1: love every single second with them. Amen. Wait Wait as
38:11
Speaker 1: just as sudden falls Nancy Gray's Crime Story, signing off
38:15
Speaker 1: goodbye Frien