Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Ivan Makedonski | Bitcoin is Love | Simply Bitcoin TTO

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Ivan Makedonski | Bitcoin is Love | Simply Bitcoin TTO · Simply Bitcoin

1:02
Let's go. What's up everyone?
1:04
It's your boy Opti. We are back for another TTO.
1:06
Apologize for the intro. YouTube was not catching us, but
1:11
doesn't matter. I will edit that out anyways.
1:13
We are back for another TTO. Today is July 11th and we got I
1:17
think you guys are going to like this one.
1:19
It's been a minute since I had a stupidly bullish and optimistic.
1:24
TTO We got a little bit into the weeds the last couple of weeks
1:27
and I've been hitting me up and he's like, look, bro, I think I
1:31
got a solid message. I think it's gonna fit perfectly
1:33
with the TTO theme, and it's about all the stuff I love to
1:38
talk about, you know? Not only the philosophy, the
1:40
psychology, but where Bitcoin is taking us into the future.
1:44
I got a little bit of tidbits, but I kind of told Ivan to let's
1:48
hold this for the show. So without further ado, let's
1:51
bring on Ivan and I I would try to say your last name, but I am
1:55
so bad at saying names and reading words in general.
1:59
So Ivan, introduce yourself for the people that don't know what
2:02
are you doing in Bitcoin and glad to have you.
2:06
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited for this
2:10
chart, particularly, I'm Ira Mcnosky, and so I say that I'm
2:17
whatever Bitcoin needs me to be, so anything but developing.
2:22
So yeah, if it needs me to be a marketer, I'm a marketer.
2:26
If I need to do some charts, I'll do some charts.
2:28
Like whatever Bitcoin needs me at that point in time, I try to
2:33
be it. Because I really want as many
2:36
people as fast as possible to come into the network, because
2:40
that's how we've been. How much money is in that thing.
2:43
It really doesn't matter for me. It matters how many people are
2:47
in it. Love it?
2:48
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I say it all the time.
2:50
You know, we are all here for number go up, but the most
2:53
important thing is having as many people as possible holding
2:57
Bitcoin, taking Bitcoin into self custody.
2:59
Because. It's changed my life and I've
3:02
seen what it's done for countless number of my friends
3:06
and we all have the same phenomenon about you start
3:09
holding Bitcoin. It literally changes your point
3:12
of view, your psychology in regards to the world.
3:15
You become more hopeful, you start to see the world
3:18
differently and you realize holy snaps, I have a whole new lease
3:22
on life. But anyways.
3:25
You said something that might be controversial to people out
3:28
there because I think I take the opposite view and it's it's back
3:32
to the mean. Bitcoin is hope.
3:33
I titled this one Bitcoin is love because this is what you
3:36
wanted to talk about. But you have a contrarian view I
3:40
would believe in. The idea of Bitcoin is hope and
3:43
I I say it all the time Bitcoin is hope because it really gave
3:46
me a new lease on life. But I I really like what you're
3:49
saying right here in regards to the mean.
3:51
Bitcoin is hope, so. Ivan, what is your view on the
3:55
mimetic of Bitcoin is hope? I would say that Bitcoin is hope
4:01
for the people that are not in it because without Bitcoin there
4:07
is there is no fault for at least a big portion of them.
4:13
But once you're in Bitcoin and really start understanding what
4:17
is this thing and. My personal point of view was,
4:22
okay, let's disprove that there's any legitimacy to
4:25
everything crypto, and it's absolutely right.
4:29
But you find out in the process that Bitcoin is the only thing
4:33
that's true. And in the process you find out,
4:37
okay, not only that it's different than crypto, but it's
4:40
different than the money that we already use in our lives.
4:45
You find out what's fear to. You find out what's proof of
4:48
work, like, everything, all of this.
4:51
And once you really absorb all that information, for me, right
4:57
now, Bitcoin is absolutely not hope.
4:59
I'm not hopeful that the sun will rise tomorrow.
5:04
I just know that it's going to happen.
5:07
Even if at some point it doesn't, it doesn't serve me.
5:11
So I'm not hopeful. If I say or I hope I wake up
5:14
tomorrow, that means there is a chance that I won't.
5:17
And also, I don't know, six months or so, maybe a little bit
5:22
more. It's absolute knowing that this
5:25
is going to happen. But it's hopeful the people that
5:29
didn't realize this. And once I know okay, nobody can
5:33
steal from me. I have my seed phrase ingrained
5:38
in my personality in my. Everything.
5:42
And I act like Bitcoin will be tomorrow, and it will.
5:48
And if you have that foundation that's unmovable, unchangeable
5:53
by anybody, now you can build absolutely everything that you
5:57
want in your life. And if you start and write all
6:02
your goals, you're getting. To Bitcoin because of the number
6:06
go out technology, but I'm now in the number go down technology
6:11
and that serves me very well for everything that I want in my
6:15
life. And that's why I would say that
6:17
for the true bitcoiners that when there you shouldn't be
6:21
hopeful do everything that you actually want to do, nobody can
6:26
stop you now you just stack Sats and build upon them.
6:32
I love it. I love it.
6:34
I. I tend to agree, but I've been
6:38
having conversations with one of my buddies, Mike Hobart, and he
6:41
keeps telling me the same thing because I I'm, I'm, I am
6:45
stupidly bullish when I talk about Bitcoin.
6:48
I think Bitcoin is like what you said, you know, as sure as the
6:51
sun rising. But he always keeps telling me
6:55
constantly that we can't act like Bitcoin is inevitable
7:00
because there's still so much work to be done.
7:02
So what would be your thoughts on that?
7:05
Absolutely. And I do believe that the field
7:08
system is highly incentivized to attack every single one of us.
7:14
Whether they try to manipulate our minds with everything and we
7:19
voluntarily sell them or forcibly they take it from
7:23
custodians or forcibly they blame the most dominant Bitcoin
7:28
at. I don't know.
7:29
And in that sense I do agree that the actual attack from the
7:34
field. System hasn't even started.
7:36
And that's why it's highly, highly important for the
7:40
bitcoiners to push as hard as possible, as fast as possible
7:45
for this movement to get Bitcoin to as many people in a non
7:51
custodial way. Because that's how we infect the
7:54
system from the inside. That's how we become the spies
7:58
within the Fiat system, because the Fiat system rolls all the
8:02
way. And one of the analogies that
8:04
they used to in a tweet back then is that the field system is
8:10
autoimmune disease for humanity because it's always attacking
8:14
each other. But Bitcoin, you're incentivized
8:18
to cooperate, and that's the pill that will cure that disease
8:23
from the whole humanity. And for the first time ever,
8:26
humanity will be on the same level.
8:31
Everything that we aspire to, whether Americans, whether
8:35
whatever religion or whatever faith you have now, for the
8:41
first time we have the same nondestructible floor that we
8:46
are all have to comply with and build upon that.
8:51
And that's why, yeah, I agree that we have to really push hard
8:55
because the fight hasn't even started in that sense.
8:59
But how we win even that's why it is by the adoption and we
9:02
infect the Fiat system within the system because just like uh,
9:07
El Salvador was infected because.
9:10
One person, which was the main person in that country, managed
9:14
to orange peel a lot of people because of his influence.
9:18
I think that's how we infect the system.
9:21
Also from the inside, it will be extremely, extremely interesting
9:26
if in the face all those 12 people that are talking about
9:30
what are we going to do? One of them is a closeted
9:34
Bitcoin. Then it really becomes
9:37
interesting, because that's how that one bitcoiner has different
9:42
incentives and could influence, even indirectly or directly,
9:48
other people around him. So yeah.
9:51
Yeah, it really reminds me of one of my favorite favorite
9:55
thoughts that. All of history was bent around a
10:00
few individuals wills and and they're the ones that really
10:04
catapulted humanity forward. And I really do think that
10:07
Bitcoin is our, you know, as as a group and I hate using the,
10:10
you know, the collective idea of a group of us, but I really do
10:13
think there are certain individuals in Bitcoin that are
10:16
thrusting humanity forward, but also everyone here.
10:19
And again I hate using the like Bitcoin community but all of our
10:23
individual actions are thrusting humanity forward and in a.
10:27
And soon enough, I think that every little individual action
10:31
will fundamentally change the course of humanity.
10:34
But there is something you just said and I I think, well
10:37
actually there's a few things there and I'm going to try to
10:39
lean this into what the topic of today's show was.
10:42
But I couldn't agree more. I think that we haven't met the
10:45
big boss yet and we are starting to get into the then they fight
10:49
you stage. And I think it's just important
10:52
for us to not get complacent. And This is why I also have been
10:55
beaten that drum of like look. We haven't won yet.
10:58
We do have the we have the checkmate move and I I agree
11:02
with you like I I like the framing that you said about
11:05
let's not be hopeful here. We know what we have and I've
11:08
been kind of beating the drum on Twitter spaces of what let's act
11:11
like we have the right answers like let's act like we are
11:14
correct because I do believe we are.
11:17
And then the other thing you said that that I really love,
11:19
and this is something that I try to get across to as many people
11:22
as possible as well, is that Bitcoin is the great equalizer.
11:25
Now humanity can play on a level playing field and you know,
11:30
provide as much value as possible and the stats will come
11:32
to you and no longer will we be playing in a rigged game, which
11:36
I think most of us bitcoiners fundamentally latch on to 1st.
11:40
It's like, wow, first the Fiat system is rigged against us.
11:43
How do we? You know, succeed and propagate
11:47
our genes and our wealth moving forward in this rigged system
11:50
when it's literally rigged against you, well, opt into
11:55
Bitcoin and you can live on the most fair, the most equitable
12:01
money, permissionless money in the world, freedom money, all
12:05
the memes we talked about. But let's get into the topic
12:08
that you really wanted to talk about today.
12:10
It's the idea of Bitcoin is love.
12:12
So are we going down the Max Kaiser?
12:14
Bitcoin is love. Memetic warfare or do you have
12:18
something else in this idea of Bitcoin is love?
12:21
I would say just from my experience, how I got there is
12:26
just seeing it in my life. That it started with a very
12:31
skeptical view a very or I need to fix this problem so I have
12:36
some money and I'm kind of successful and first of all you
12:41
just sense the love that you give yourself now that you don't
12:45
need to be hopeful and so you start with yourself and once you
12:52
have No Fear and you have that so.
12:56
But it's a floor that's unmovable and you start working
13:01
without all the problems and the disincentives and all the things
13:07
that are against you in the field system and you just start
13:10
stacking and understand the number.
13:12
Go down technology and shout out to Jerbo's thesis, you just.
13:19
And start writing the goals that you have for your life.
13:22
Or I want a house, I want a car, I want a wife, I want kids, I
13:27
want to go to a holiday, like everything that you want, and
13:31
start using Bitcoin as them. Not a store of value, but you
13:36
start using it as the unit of account for your life and
13:41
everything that you write down in that list.
13:45
Right now it's 2023 and right next to him all the house that I
13:49
want is, let's say 5 Bitcoin. The car is half a Bitcoin,
13:55
whatever it is, and then start working towards the life that
13:59
you want to live. And once you see that, you get
14:03
closer and closer and closer to. Realizing your vision, your
14:08
future vision, that's how even chemically with the dopamine
14:12
that's in us, that is what would motivate us to even go faster,
14:17
to go further than when we anticipate it.
14:20
But the field system is completely the opposite.
14:23
If you have your written goals down, they will get further and
14:28
further away from you and. So just chemically, this
14:34
machinery, the human, the human animal needs dopamine to pursue
14:40
the goals that we want. But if the goal gets further and
14:44
further away, we have a mechanism to stop us because
14:47
that's not, that's wasted energy towards those goals.
14:53
And once I had that list and so OK, everything that I want now
14:58
becomes closer. And the next year it will be
15:01
even closer, and the next year it will be even closer.
15:05
That's how I really realized loving myself and achieving this
15:11
goal. And not that I love more myself,
15:13
but I let go of all that negativity, all that problems,
15:18
and so not despair. Maybe for some people is despair
15:23
and you get to that love place for yourself first.
15:28
And once you realize that you can love yourself, then you go
15:31
to the closest people next to you.
15:33
And that's why with my personal story, me losing my mother
15:37
because of money, it was extremely important.
15:41
Then to show love to everybody around me, the closest people to
15:46
me. And the best way to show love is
15:49
to hombard them the proper way to explain to them.
15:52
Because you would want to be surrounded by those people when
15:56
the tough times come and. Again going back to the
16:01
infecting the system, start with your loved ones and once you
16:05
surround surround yourself with loved ones.
16:08
They will start feeling love for themselves and they will give
16:11
you back because you gave them back in the form of this new
16:16
model of living and they will expand their circle and it just.
16:23
The end goal is all humanity is absolutely equal, but we would
16:28
love to share. That's the highest expression of
16:31
love. We're not meant to be lonely.
16:34
We are meant to be together with at least one more person.
16:38
So we can for create and move on the humanity, but we are not
16:44
there yet. As we started, the whole stage
16:48
is for all the people that are not in it.
16:51
Yet then it's the absolute belief and then the end.
16:56
Emotion for me would definitely be love for all humanity.
17:02
Wow, coming in strong. There's so many little threads
17:05
that I can pull up on that one. But there's one thing you said,
17:07
you know, like. I think it's biblical at this
17:10
point. Like let your cup overflow
17:11
before you can try to help others or pull the thorn out of
17:15
your own eye before you try to pull it out of your your
17:18
brothers or mates or whatever the the mimetic is or.
17:22
I always kind of saying what I have a friend who told me that
17:24
this is bad, bad framing but it's like when you are in an
17:28
airplane they always tell you put on the match first before
17:30
you try to help others. But I really love that the
17:33
framing and I'm not sure it's the first time I've heard that
17:36
but. I am probably gonna steal it
17:38
because I always say the same thing.
17:40
Like pay yourself 1st and I will add to my mimetics of love your
17:44
future self more than your present self.
17:46
And by that we mean saving sets. Make sure you're saving a
17:50
Bitcoin paying future you first, because if you don't have
17:53
anything for the future. How can you deal with the
17:56
uncertainty of that future? And like you're saying there's
17:58
no need to hope anymore, you just saving Bitcoin and it's
18:01
something else that I always touch on.
18:03
I always say like orange Pilling your friends and family is a
18:05
true form of love. Would you agree with that?
18:09
Absolutely. And so when they experience the
18:13
next bull market, and even if they have no idea why, they
18:18
would be so grateful. It's the, I would say, the
18:22
lowest form of love, but they would be grateful.
18:25
And then will it would kind of force them to see why the hell
18:31
this thing happened and why this crazy person that was chasing me
18:35
for months or maybe years in some cases also passionate about
18:40
it. And they will go on that path,
18:44
even if they just blindly and trusted you.
18:48
But if you kind of forced them and you didn't show them love
18:53
that. They need to be on boarded in a
18:56
non stereo manner. They will sell their position in
18:59
Bitcoin. They will go back to or.
19:01
I have problems. I need to pay my bills like
19:03
everything they like, They'll go back to it.
19:06
But through my experience when I showed loved, I care about you.
19:10
I'm not going to make absolutely anything.
19:14
If you buy it, this is not an investment.
19:16
This is not multi level marketing, this is not only
19:19
scheme, this is absolutely nothing.
19:21
This is properly engineered money for the first time since
19:27
gold, like gold was the last proper money, the closest to it.
19:32
But now it's absolute scarcity and everybody will benefit from
19:37
that and just to say how. Our community gathers around.
19:45
We may fight between bitcoiners, we may have disagreements about
19:51
this or that or anything, but I absolutely believe that every
19:55
single bitcoiner is a orange brother or a sister, and we can
19:59
have this agreement. But if you attack my sister, you
20:04
have to go through me first. And I think all of us have that
20:07
mentality, and I don't think there's.
20:11
Probably there is somewhere or some group of people, but I
20:15
don't think it's that big as bitcoins.
20:18
And we are really irritated when somebody attacks somebody that's
20:24
a newbie through crypto and that's why we attack back.
20:29
But yeah, I think it really comes from the place of love.
20:34
If you attack one of us, you attack all of us.
20:38
Yeah you just made me think of like the idea of like protecting
20:41
newbs from scammers is is just like unconditional love out
20:45
there. And and understanding that
20:47
you've probably been through the same thing and you're here like
20:49
as a Big Brother trying to protect the newbies out there so
20:52
that they also don't get scam like you probably did.
20:55
But there's a there's an interesting connection there and
20:58
the idea of like if we connect this.
21:02
With the idea, you know, Bitcoin is love and, you know, loving
21:06
your brother as thyself or whatever mimetics you want to
21:09
use. But it's very interesting if you
21:11
connect that with the idea of how Fiat currency is the
21:16
complete opposite and how it's stealing from the future and how
21:20
you are incentivized the, you know, lie, rob and steal from
21:24
your brother so that you can. Benefit in the world, but also
21:28
discounting the future, or rather disregarding the future.
21:32
And as a bitcoiner, we're not only showing love to humanity
21:39
that is on planet of now. It's like extending.
21:43
As much love is humanly possible to every human coming down the
21:47
line from here, it's like, look, I am Team Human.
21:50
I think that the world on a better money would improve the
21:53
lives of every single one of us coming after us.
21:56
And I don't know what is more honorable than to not only make
22:00
that sacrifice in the moment for for ourselves, you know, stack
22:03
stats for prosperity, but also. Understanding that if we usher
22:07
in this monetary system, this Bitcoin experiment, that we
22:10
really are changing the course of humanity because Fiat system
22:14
has destroyed where we are right now and it's stolen from the
22:17
future. And I I can't understand or I
22:20
can't think of what what a higher love for for future
22:24
progeny of man can be than to be like, look, I will take the
22:28
sacrifice. I will, you know.
22:31
Put the team on my back. I will go through the monetary
22:34
war so that we can usher in a better system for the future.
22:37
And and I think, you know, for the boomers out there, for the
22:40
generations before us, they had a totally different view of the
22:44
world. They're like, I just need to get
22:45
what's mine and get my own little slice of the pie so that
22:50
I can prosper and fuck the future.
22:52
And now we're kind of flipping that all on the head.
22:54
Or it's like, no, not only love your future self more than the
22:58
present self, but also. I share in a better money and
23:02
love everyone else coming after us.
23:03
And so it's really interesting how Bitcoin really does flip the
23:08
psychology of humanity on its head.
23:11
Absolutely. And I would say this is just the
23:14
first part of flipping our behavior because we are really
23:20
dealing with Bitcoin on the first level, still first layer.
23:25
And realizing what digital scarcity really means, I don't
23:30
think any of us truly can grasp it and it would be like such a
23:37
shock for so many people that didn't put the 10,000 hours
23:43
studying this beast. I think, I don't think that's I
23:47
will also grasp the implications for it, but.
23:53
Once you get into the Bitcoin network and you take care of
23:58
yourself, if you have more, I don't think there's ever a
24:02
person that if he has more than he has now, he wouldn't be
24:07
willing to share a little bit more also.
24:10
And if you have a little bit less, you're incentivized to not
24:17
share as much and that's what the Fiat system does like.
24:21
Way back when, my grandma raised me of my first six years of
24:28
childhood and they were so cherry like they had stuff.
24:33
They didn't have a lot of stuff, but they're purchasing power.
24:38
It wasn't like it is today. And they said, oh, my neighbor,
24:42
this and that. Here it is a little gifts.
24:45
Let's go out. Whatever, share even moments or
24:49
share some work with them. And now.
24:53
Because of all this robbing, the first thing that you have to cut
24:57
is, oh, I can't share because I can save myself and now I have
25:02
to work even more. Now I'm stressed and everything
25:06
else puts in this downward Spiderman.
25:08
Then why am I depressed? Whether you're depressed because
25:11
you can't achieve the goals that you want and not only the goals
25:14
that you want, but then we're talking about just survival, and
25:19
living is not about survival. And it's doing a full circle
25:25
actually one of the first ever tweets once I kind of become
25:29
became active on Twitter was too simply Bitcoin and sending the
25:37
hierarchy, hierarchy of needs of muscle and then it was really
25:42
the buying Bitcoin is the physiological needs, then it's
25:47
non custodial, then it's multi stick and everything and we.
25:52
All of us want self actualization.
25:54
And when you self actualize, absolutely everything that you
25:59
want, whether it's financial goals, material goals, or
26:02
spiritual goals. If you have the first layer,
26:06
okay I can. I'm secure.
26:10
About my health and secure, About my employment or what I
26:13
want to do, then you build your career.
26:16
When you have your career, then I want the craziest that I want
26:22
to have. When you have absolutely
26:26
everything that you ever wanted to achieve, when you actualize
26:31
it materially in your life, why wouldn't you share?
26:36
Absolutely. Everyone around you will be the
26:39
same way. And I think not only through
26:42
technology will see this deflationary force, but if we
26:46
start sharing with our neighbor, that's more in 10 years, in 20
26:51
years we'll share even more. And this is also a deflationary
26:56
force because not only through technology gives you more, but
27:00
your neighbor will give you more.
27:02
And it's just. When I start thinking about
27:06
this, it's again a spiral. And when you talk about all of
27:13
this vision to somebody that doesn't see it like we see it,
27:18
it's all this is a code, like they can't relate in any shape
27:24
or form because they have those. And Fiat glasses.
27:28
That's how they view the world. And that's why simply Bitcoin
27:32
and every content creator out there is the very first step,
27:37
the hugely, hugely important step to just show them the light
27:43
just from one way, one meme, one podcast, one blog or whatever it
27:50
is that will resonate to one person.
27:54
And it's just hugely, hugely important right now.
27:58
And let's start with the education.
28:00
But then the really, really exciting stuff happened when we
28:05
actually built every single one of us on top of Bitcoin.
28:09
Wow. Well, I'm getting bullish
28:11
already, but there's a few things that I wanna talk about.
28:14
I mean, the last thing you kind of reminded me of was.
28:17
The Medici family and patrons of the arts.
28:19
Maybe moving forward we'll have more of like patrons of the
28:23
bitcoiners, just people that you know, the whales out there that
28:26
have stupid amount of coins and they just see someone doing some
28:31
cool stuff and they're like, look, I wanna share with you so
28:34
that you can continue to do what you're doing.
28:36
And then on another point and I fully agree with this idea that
28:39
you just laid out this people are are really too bearish when
28:43
it comes to digital scarcity. I I I really think humans don't
28:47
understand what that means and we we're just so caught up in
28:53
the 15 year journey that is Bitcoin so far and the.
28:56
How high the Bitcoin prices has run and everyone's like I can
29:00
never go higher and and I just always think I'm like guys you
29:04
guys are so bearish and I try to temper my bullishness but
29:08
digital scarcity I think few people understand what that
29:11
means and I think our our brains can't even really fathom what
29:15
digital scarcity means especially considering how many
29:18
trillions of dollars are sloshing around in the Fiat
29:20
world and and the fact that Bitcoin will be.
29:23
That black hole, that vacuum that sucks up all the value.
29:26
But question for you, how long did it take you on this Bitcoin
29:30
journey to come to this level of Bitcoin Zen?
29:32
Because I always joke about Bitcoin Zen.
29:34
And just like once you see it and you understand, you like,
29:37
calm down and you just get so excited about the future that
29:41
it's hard to comprehend or even, like, contain yourself sometimes
29:44
you're just like, wow, the future is going to be so
29:47
awesome. I would say.
29:52
It took me about three months to have that first experience of
29:55
that excitement, but it's just because you're already started
30:02
realizing what it could be. But it's just in one small point
30:07
of view. Then in the journey, let's say
30:10
in two months I. To think about something
30:13
completely different, help that thing is going to revolutionize
30:17
everything. And then that excitement intense
30:20
again. And I think like every month or
30:23
two at the most, I have this super excitement that I can't
30:29
contain and I'm like I can sleep like this will change
30:34
everything. And I don't know if it is the
30:39
same with you, but. It it just, if I leave this
30:43
excitement all the time, I I wouldn't be able to do work.
30:47
But this really motivates me to do that work and do the grind
30:53
when I have to do the grind. But that's my personal
30:57
experience. Extreme, extreme excitement
31:01
happens when I realize how. Bitcoin will change a particular
31:07
segment of humanity, of the economy or whatever.
31:12
And because money touches everything, it will
31:15
revolutionize everything and we just can't grasp it.
31:19
And when you said how much is digital scarcity, I said to
31:25
myself, now when I realized what Bitcoin is, I'm devoting the
31:29
rest of my working career to Bitcoin.
31:32
I will be whatever Bitcoin needs me to be.
31:36
And how much is the value of my working career to the rest of my
31:42
life? Then multiply that by 8 billion
31:46
people. Then multiply that by the time
31:50
saved from technology. Then multiply that by everything
31:55
else, like. Bitcoin about millions, about
31:58
billions. I think it's too bearish.
32:01
I think in our life it would go to trillions, not only because
32:05
it will be inflated into trillions, but it's just you.
32:10
We can't complicate that value. Wow, did I hear you correctly?
32:15
You said Bitcoin is worth trillions per coin.
32:20
Seriously, how much? How much is your life worth your
32:23
working career worth? Then multiply down by 8 billion
32:27
and I would say you could start getting to the number.
32:32
Let's go. I thought we were gonna get more
32:34
philosophical, but we can get stupidly bullish too.
32:38
I have a question though, and maybe this is me being devil's
32:42
advocate or whatever, or just trying to keep myself honest.
32:46
Do you think we're falling into like utopian tropes or utopian
32:49
ideals about what Bitcoin is because it's changed our lives
32:52
so much that we, you know, overlay this utopian dream of of
32:55
a better world? Or are we just understanding
33:00
that moving forward, if you fix the money, you will fix the
33:02
world? And from where we're looking at
33:04
right now, it does seem like utopia.
33:08
I would say yeah, it's it is utopia because it's this vision.
33:14
But because it's based on engineering, it's absolutely
33:19
possible. Exactly how it will manifest,
33:22
nobody can predict. But we talked offline that
33:27
economists don't build things when you go to somebody and it
33:31
say I want a building to be built.
33:35
You don't go to the Economist. They will say all the foundation
33:39
needs to be less money because of whatever or when you, the
33:45
construction workers, build the building, they would say, oh,
33:48
put 2% each year on top of that building.
33:51
And if you leave that utopia, oh, this is going to the moon,
33:56
the engineering and gravity will show you that you're just not
34:02
connected to reality, but Bitcoin, because it's.
34:05
Connected to energy, because it's absolutely properly
34:09
engineered money, then all that vision is possible.
34:14
Like it's not something virtual. It is virtual in our minds now.
34:19
But because we know it's possible, we will start building
34:22
that future. And maybe we don't actually see
34:26
it, maybe our kids, maybe our grandkids.
34:28
But we are definitely going that way.
34:31
And Bitcoin is not shrinking and it's not slowing down.
34:35
Fiat is trying to gasp and slow down or whatever.
34:40
They will lose that fight, but take care of the people around
34:43
you. They will be there to protect
34:45
you in the hard times, as I talked previously, everything
34:48
else will take care of itself because of the incentives.
34:52
And later on I will just mention that this is just the first
34:57
stage, what we experienced about the first layer.
35:01
I kind of realized the Lighting network, the second layer will
35:05
absolutely change behavior in such a profound way for me that
35:11
I got excited like 2 weeks ago when I realized it and yeah.
35:16
Well, let's get into that, because that's a topic that you
35:19
wanted to touch on. How has the Lightning Network
35:21
changed your behavior? Or you can get more cosmic How
35:24
will lightning change the behavior of humanity at large?
35:30
Yeah, I would say, I'll start a little bit of my personal
35:34
experience again that I was a manager in different industries,
35:38
in different teams, in different companies and always there was
35:43
kind of a struggle between employees and employers.
35:48
The employees most of the time receive money for their time.
35:53
And we say time is money or whatever, but the physics
35:57
understanding is that work is force times displacement.
36:03
This is the physical definition. And when you put a brick where
36:08
you are going to build a wall, the benefit of placing that
36:12
brick you receive immediately when you place it to the proper
36:16
place. And if you have to move it, you
36:19
move it, you do the work and you get the benefit at the moment
36:22
that you place it. This is exactly what the
36:26
Lightning Network will start giving to the working space.
36:31
Everybody that is receiving money for time over time will be
36:37
completely changed by not I'm paying your daily wage, weekly
36:42
wage, or monthly wage. I'm going to pay you by work
36:46
done and just make the analogy even more clear, let's say.
36:51
We are building a building again.
36:54
If the construction company has a bunch of employees, they will
36:59
pay them wages, but the contractor needs to finish the
37:03
building in order to receive the money, and it's a direct
37:07
conflict. The worker is incentivized to do
37:10
as little work as possible for as long as possible, because
37:15
that's the incentive of. His money in the pocket and the
37:22
construction company is a reverse thing.
37:25
They need to do the work as fast as possible for as little money
37:31
as possible, and that's a direct conflict in every single company
37:35
between managers and employees. But now, because the Lighting
37:39
Network will facilitate instant micro payments and other
37:43
payments in the future once the infrastructure is built.
37:47
Now you can pay that employee not by time, but all You laid
37:54
300 bricks today and now you can calculate each brick how much it
37:58
is and you receive a portion of the the whole contract.
38:06
Now because of the work done, the construction company
38:10
receives at the same time their percentage.
38:14
And the person that is paying the OR the investor or whoever
38:18
is paying for the project actually pays at the same time,
38:21
because it's a split payment to the.
38:23
Just like the podcasting right now through lighting, you can
38:28
pay or stream sets to podcasters and you can split it all.
38:32
The podcast receives this, the host receives this, the person
38:36
that is interviewed receives this or however you want to
38:39
split it, Everybody receives. At the same time, but at the
38:43
moment of the value given, and I would say this will be brought
38:49
to every single work out there and it will completely switch
38:55
the behavior of the employees, everybody that receives money
38:59
for their time will be completely abolished and they.
39:04
Wouldn't have to be managed by managers because you do work,
39:09
you receive money, you don't do work, you don't receive money.
39:12
And this was like mind blowing for me.
39:15
That's just like Senote is training starts for any regi.
39:19
This is coming absolutely everywhere and it's.
39:23
I don't know what your thoughts about this, but I'm hugely,
39:26
hugely, hugely bullish about Bitcoin because next Bitcoin is
39:29
Bitcoin. Yeah, definitely agree with the
39:32
next Bitcoin is Bitcoin. I'd have to think through the
39:36
process that you just elaborated on, but it really did make me
39:39
think of look where You Tube channel and we're huge and I
39:42
said all the time we're huge free market Maxis.
39:46
In the sense that like we understand that there's a free
39:48
market of attention out there and if we drop a video and no
39:51
one likes it, doesn't get the views, then we have to come
39:54
back. But we get that instant feedback
39:56
of like, oh, is this working? Is this not working?
39:59
There's not much lag between what we do and the free market
40:03
of attention. And that made me think of like,
40:05
OK, you know, maybe we will facilitate like, I don't know, a
40:12
Hyperloop view of. The free market of the economy
40:17
where like if you aren't get you don't have to wait those you
40:20
know weeks or or months to get that feedback of monetary
40:25
payment for your things. It's just like if you do it
40:28
instantly you will get the sets instantly and if it doesn't work
40:31
you just retry new ideas and the amount of movement of how
40:35
quickly businesses will start to spring up, I think it's going to
40:38
be mind blowing and I don't know I I don't know if that's the
40:41
same thought as what you're talking about but that was the
40:43
first thing that that. Kind of popped in my head is
40:46
like we have free market Maxis, but in the sense of attention
40:50
and I think in real time they're.
40:53
Replicated, yeah, replicate that free market for every industry.
40:58
Like I just said, in the construction now you don't have
41:01
to manage your workers. Now it's a free market between
41:05
all the workers out there competing for that job to be the
41:09
best job possible because they would hire that employee for the
41:14
job and. Let's say you do windows, I do
41:18
walls. Somebody does the rules and
41:21
you're paid for a very small amount of work instantly.
41:27
There is no risk to the employee receiving the money because he's
41:32
doing. If you're doing a bad job,
41:34
you're fired and you're hiring somebody, that's better and it
41:38
will be incentivized, just like we are in for podcast.
41:41
You're fighting for the attention.
41:43
But. For everything that's moving
41:45
through time and space, it will be a fight for the best.
41:49
Job done just in the podcasting place is the attention medium,
41:56
but everywhere else it's the physical definition.
42:00
Work is force times displacement, so you're moving
42:04
bricks faster. Done somebody else?
42:07
Great. You're placing them the proper
42:10
way, great, you're competing against everybody else and
42:14
companies would hire you. But right now, because you're
42:17
disincentivized to put it as fast as possible and also come
42:23
many times we've seen all somebody does work just to the
42:29
barest quality possible just to receive the salary like.
42:35
Again, this is the even if they don't realize it, the
42:39
subconscious subconscious mind realizes I do as little as
42:44
possible and I receive as much as possible.
42:47
That's my incentive. And now it's flipped on its head
42:50
and all the employees will completely switch.
42:54
So every job that you see out there and that I see that is
42:58
receiving money for time will be changed with the lighting
43:03
network. Yeah, I mean, I I'm still
43:07
wrapping my head around this, but I'm thinking of when I used
43:10
to work by the hour. I think everyone that works by
43:14
the hour understands one thing and it's the idea of like don't
43:17
get the job done too quickly. You know, get a nice pace so
43:21
that you can, you know, make this job last for as long as
43:24
possible. Or rather, you know, just clock
43:27
in for your 8 hours and just make sure that whatever you have
43:30
to get done that day last you 8 hours versus now in the Bitcoin
43:35
standard, it's like, OK. I got to do as much as humanly
43:38
possible so that we can get the stats in and if we don't get it
43:41
done, then you're never going to get them stats flowing to you.
43:44
So I think there will be a certain amount of behavior that
43:48
changes. But I have one kind of thought,
43:53
contraring thought maybe in my head here in regards to this.
43:56
It's like I don't think we understand what the free market
43:59
price of Labor actually is, whether that's manual, physical
44:02
or intellectual labor right now because we have been so detached
44:06
from reality. That like you know, athletes are
44:10
paid the most on planet Earth. It's because they're
44:13
distraction. You know, people that build
44:14
houses are paid minimal and it's like I think in time we will get
44:19
a a free market price of, you know what labor is the most
44:23
beneficial for society. But this might take a long time
44:27
and it's kind of kudos to your idea.
44:29
And I say the same thing. I think I'm going to be doing
44:30
this Bitcoin thing for the rest of my life.
44:32
I better prepare for the long run.
44:34
So what would be your thoughts on that?
44:37
Just by you speaking about this, maybe another thought about the
44:43
sportsman is that there is also a free market competition.
44:48
Because I'm not talking the people that monetize the for
44:52
sport or everything around it, but in a sport it's absolute
44:58
free marking competition about fighting for the trophy like you
45:02
have to be the best to win. The game, the baseball match,
45:08
the basketball match, like whatever sport, that's a free
45:11
market competition in play and it inspires cooperation between
45:17
teams. And when it's a team sport or if
45:22
you're individualist, you go fight at it.
45:25
But it's an absolute free market dynamics about the trophies.
45:31
The monetizing aspect is completely different and maybe
45:34
they don't deserve as much or probably the workers in the
45:38
construction side deserve more closer to them.
45:42
But again, you provoked that so that just because of that free
45:46
market incentive, the best players in the world don't get
45:51
in the sport because of the money first.
45:53
Maybe they have aspired, nobody wants to be poor, but they get
45:58
in to compete. But because there is no free
46:03
market about competing in your job, I always hated when I was
46:08
unemployed, I did three times as much my quota or whatever I was
46:14
doing compared to the person next to me and we received the
46:18
same salary. Like how is that free market?
46:22
Like no free market just because you're paying by the hour, but
46:27
sportsman. They're incentivized.
46:29
Even if I receive less money than you on the field, we are
46:34
equal and we fight for it. We want to prove that we are the
46:38
best. But again, there is no free
46:42
dynamic in the working labor force.
46:45
So just the thoughts that I never thought about, but yeah.
46:49
Yeah, I think, I think we can agree on that.
46:53
Moving forward, Bitcoin will fundamentally change every
46:56
aspect of humanity, especially considering like you mentioned
46:59
earlier, and as all of us Austrian Bitcoin economists
47:03
understand, you know, money is 1/2 of every transaction.
47:06
So you fix the money, everything else will follow suit.
47:09
But I do kind of want to pivot because we are on the last, I
47:11
don't know, 15 minutes and I heard.
47:14
You say something that I thought was very interesting on one of
47:18
your recent podcast appearances and it was a quote that your
47:22
mother said, actually. And and I I absolutely love this
47:25
quote because I kind of say it in my own way all the time.
47:30
But you said that your mom would always tell you that you need to
47:33
make your own small Kingdom. And I absolutely loved that idea
47:38
because I say it all the time like I I.
47:41
I think what I'm trying to do here and I'm going to use one of
47:44
my friends memes as well, like I'm not stacking sats for my
47:46
first name, I'm stacking sats for my last name.
47:48
And I think being a bitcoiner what I'm trying to do is build a
47:54
better legacy for my family, whether they're alive now or
47:58
whether my future family, you know, God willing, I have kids
48:02
and I want to provide for them more than I had in this lifetime
48:07
and I understand now the dynamics of money.
48:10
And I think we're all trying to build, you know, kingdoms of
48:13
bloodlines of kingdoms out there and build a little empire
48:16
following me. Like I jokingly say I'm trying
48:19
to build an an off an army of offspring.
48:23
And I absolutely love that idea of what you said, your mom would
48:27
say. You got to think about making
48:28
your own small Kingdom. So maybe elaborate on this one
48:32
and connect it to the Bitcoin idea of, you know, maybe
48:34
Citadel's or I don't know where. Where are you taking this?
48:38
Yeah, that was her thing, definitely.
48:41
And just because she managed to be a very, I would say, the most
48:47
successful person in all of our relatives.
48:52
She was born in a village, you know, with 300 houses, and in
48:57
her lifetime she managed to become a millionaire.
49:01
And she never wanted to be this huge, big thing like she was
49:07
fighting. I want the life that I want.
49:11
And if I have the life that I want, everybody around you with
49:16
me will be better. And but in order to grasp this
49:22
idea and everything that meant that was her thing, build your
49:28
own small Kingdom so that for me it meant that start, envision
49:36
the life that you want to live. Start.
49:38
Envision the people that you want to be surrounded by, and
49:43
definitely don't allow the people that you don't want to be
49:46
surrounded by and make invisible or visible force a small one,
49:53
just enough for your particular vision, so you and the people
49:59
that you love are protected and so because they're.
50:03
So many forces against us in just natural life.
50:07
And as we talked in the beginning, the big fight haven't
50:11
even started yet. So the more decentralized smoke
50:16
equals we have full of Bitcoin earth, the better our chances
50:21
are. And this hope for humanity that
50:24
we started from is not hope for anybody else.
50:29
We are just brothers and sisters on the real human level and we
50:35
build everything that we want. I can't imagine what 8 billion
50:42
people striving towards the same kind of goals, same ideals could
50:47
build and maybe we could grasp it of end of our personal lives.
50:54
But I'm so excited for really the humanity.
50:59
We talked about the stupid bullish price, but I don't care
51:07
really about the money. Now.
51:09
I know that it's all about modern lives and helping the
51:13
person next to you. That's what's really important
51:17
your. You can't really take everything
51:21
with you once you're gone, even though we couldn't change even
51:25
that. But the things that you remember
51:28
when we all get old is you will cherish your life by Am I loved
51:34
again. It's not going to be how much
51:37
money I really have. And if that is your end goal
51:41
while you're dying at the end of your life, how much money you
51:45
have like. Re evaluate your values.
51:50
Love it, I said all the time as well.
51:53
Some something similar and it's been throughout this whole
51:57
journey of being on the media front lines and and trying to
52:00
understand a better way to Orange Pill people and working
52:03
on my mimetics and and my rhetoric and you know, some
52:07
might say my propaganda, I probably would say that, but I'm
52:11
convinced. That people just want to live a
52:14
good life and right now they don't understand what the best
52:19
way to go about that is. They they've been gas lit.
52:22
They've been sign off. They don't understand how the
52:25
financial world works by design and.
52:29
It's upon every single one of us to spread the freedom tools,
52:33
the, you know, the number go up technology that is Bitcoin
52:36
because it will fundamentally help people live a better life.
52:39
And I really like how you just said it cuz I said the same
52:42
thing multiple times before in the past that Bitcoin allows you
52:45
to live the life you want. And I couldn't agree more.
52:48
I I feel like this is what I'm doing and I understand that.
52:52
If we have 8 billion people working towards what they
52:54
believe to be the life that they want, how can we not live in a
52:58
better world? I I'm just, I'm maybe it's my
53:01
naive, optimistic, bitcoiner point of view, but I'm just
53:05
convinced if everyone is working towards what is best for
53:07
themselves and their family than on a global level.
53:13
The world will be moving towards a better place.
53:15
And This is why, you know, I think we're both bitcoiners.
53:18
This is why we are dedicated the rest of our lives to spreading
53:21
this message and why we wake up every day, be a part of the
53:24
grind, be a part of the roller coaster ride that is human
53:27
emotions. Because I I really do believe in
53:29
the same way that I think you believe that Bitcoin allows
53:32
humanity to live a better life, but not even to get so abstract
53:36
like it allows you and I to live the life that we want to and
53:40
provide our skill set. To the best of our abilities,
53:44
towards something that we think is furthering humanity versus
53:47
just, you know, cashing it on a paycheck and clocking in at 9
53:51
and clocking out at 5:00 and just being a part of the rat
53:54
race and getting grinded out. It's like it really does feel
53:58
like working in Bitcoin. We are able to not only, you
54:02
know, pay ourselves first, but usher in a world that we can
54:08
only dream of right now. And some might call that
54:11
stupidly bullish. Some might call it hopeful,
54:13
optimistic, naively optimistic, but I really do believe that
54:17
that's where we're going right now.
54:18
It's we're here to create a better world.
54:21
Yeah, absolutely. And so whatever your vision is,
54:24
I bet that once you all started building on Bitcoin, that vision
54:29
is getting closer. Even if we're not there yet,
54:33
we're getting closer. So that means that it's possible
54:37
even. It change if it changes.
54:42
Not exactly the way that you want, but the faster you are,
54:46
the faster you will go towards it, the more motivated you will
54:50
be going towards that vision. And so we and kind of not
54:57
worried but conscious about only one thing that bitcoiners need
55:02
to stay on message and they need to stay focused because it's
55:08
really attention. Focused about self, sovereign 8
55:13
billion people, peer-to-peer transactions, all of that
55:19
because if we get distracted by all how many likes we have or
55:27
our company doesn't treat me as good or whatever it is, don't
55:33
get distracted from the main message.
55:36
Those, let's say if you have a million user, 1,000,000
55:39
followers in Instagram or whatever it is, this is a tool
55:44
that should facilitate your vision to come closer, don't get
55:49
distracted and focus on the tools but the vision.
55:53
So that's I would say is kind of the final message to every
55:57
bitcoiner out there, stay on message, 8 billion sales
56:01
sovereign people on the planet and so.
56:06
Freedom is finally possible for humanity.
56:09
And yeah, let's all feel the world.
56:11
I love it. I love it.
56:12
I, I, I take a little more pessimistic view on things that
56:16
are more cynical. I would say, I always say like
56:19
no one really cares about the the intricacies about Bitcoin.
56:22
It's how can they get their vision done or facilitated
56:26
through Bitcoin. And I think that that's pretty
56:28
much what we're saying. Like no one cares about the the
56:31
inner workings of their iPhone or the Android.
56:34
They just want him or their computer.
56:36
All they want to do is whatever, you know, make music, watch cat
56:39
videos, connect with their loved ones, do the things that they
56:43
want to do. And I I couldn't agree more.
56:45
I I think it's there's something to the idea of like don't bog
56:49
people down with all the details, the finer details.
56:52
All they need to know is the fundamentals like take Bitcoin
56:55
in self custody, you know, 21 million hard cap final
56:59
settlement in 10 minutes or instant settlement on lightning.
57:02
And just start to build the things you want to see in the
57:05
world. And I I couldn't agree more.
57:07
And then on this last, last point or maybe one more
57:10
question, but I usually like to ask the same question to people,
57:12
especially when we get Cosmic. Do you think that Bitcoin is the
57:16
greatest invention ever up there with the fire and the wheel?
57:22
There is definitely a debate about if it is an invention and
57:26
it is a discovery. And I go back and forward from
57:32
one to the other, which was the invention and which was the
57:35
discovery. But I think it's because it's
57:41
built on top of a lot of other inventions and discoveries.
57:47
I will definitely put it the first up to date.
57:52
Let's go Okay I. It's hard for me to say, but I I
57:58
do kind of feel like Bitcoin might be the best invention
58:00
ever. But there's there's some,
58:02
there's some other cool inventions in there as well.
58:04
But just to put a bow tie on this conversation, it started
58:09
with Bitcoin's love. We got a little cosmic, we got a
58:13
little bullish. But on a personal level, what do
58:16
you love about Bitcoin the most? Or rather, how has Bitcoin
58:19
changed your life the most? And we'll roll this one out on
58:22
that. I would say it just it gave me
58:33
an incredible, incredible external family for brothers and
58:39
sisters and incredible humility, how little I actually know.
58:46
I was always learning and pushing myself towards.
58:51
And once I saw what this thing is, I adapted to it, even my
58:55
personal goals. I always thought I want to be an
58:58
entrepreneur, and now I think I'm just here to serve.
59:03
If I have to be a generator, I have to be an employee.
59:07
Like whatever I am, whatever Bitcoin needs me to be, and
59:12
whatever I can give to Bitcoin and that.
59:15
Humility and just accelerating and seeing and experiencing the
59:21
love in my life and the people around me feeling it more and
59:25
more. Just that thing alone, without
59:28
anybody. It's just worth the price.
59:32
So I would say that is the biggest thing that's Bitcoin
59:36
gave me to my life up to date. I love it, absolutely love it.
59:41
I I say it all the time and sometimes I forget my own memes,
59:45
but I say it all the time in a very similar way.
59:48
I'm like provide value to your fellow man, serve your fellow
59:51
man and the Sats will flow your way.
59:53
And I I think few people forget that what you're doing as a
59:57
business, as an entrepreneur, is solving people's problems and
1:00:01
and what more is solving people's problems and serving
1:00:04
your fellow man, seeing what they need and trying to provide
1:00:07
a solution so that people's lives get better.
1:00:09
And I really do think that's what every Bitcoin are out there
1:00:12
trying to do, whether it's making content, whether it's,
1:00:15
you know, being a coder, whether it is doing marketing for the
1:00:19
businesses so that people understand that these tools are
1:00:22
available and all you need to do to live a better life is adopt
1:00:25
them today. So, Ivan, really appreciate it.
1:00:28
Let's plug your Twitter or wherever people can find you.
1:00:33
I got your Twitter account over here, but what are you working
1:00:35
on and what do you want people to look to look out from you
1:00:38
for? I would say I'm in every social
1:00:42
media because I'm one of the two more public faces from Breeze.
1:00:47
So Twitter, I'm Naku 2080 K 2000 and so I want Noster to be
1:00:55
further developed and I'm trying to push it a little bit, but I'm
1:00:59
definitely not professional content creator, but they're
1:01:03
expanding the network. There's I would say those are
1:01:06
the two best ways to reach me. And so, if you're a Orange
1:01:10
brother, we are already connected in so many ways.
1:01:15
If you're just human, I'm a fellow human, Let's meet, let's
1:01:20
talk, let's chat, whatever it is, and let's orange build the
1:01:25
world. Well, I've been.
1:01:27
I really appreciated this is lifted my spirits personally and
1:01:30
I'm sure it got some people spirits lifted in the chat as
1:01:33
well. So really appreciate it bro.
1:01:36
Stick, stick around and behind the scenes while I roll this one
1:01:38
out and we will and this TTO guys.
1:01:44
I know this one I I'm going I'm I'm going all over the place
1:01:47
with the TTO's. Sometimes we'll get a little,
1:01:49
we'll get a little technical sometimes we'll get a little
1:01:52
intricate and what's going on in the world.
1:01:54
Sometimes we'll get philosophical and bullish but
1:01:56
it's all simply Bitcoin TTO. So I really hope you appreciated
1:02:00
this show. I hope you guys got a little bit
1:02:02
of not only wisdom but love through this channel so that you
1:02:06
can go out there and spread that simply Bitcoin message and not
1:02:09
just us, simply Bitcoin but that it's Bitcoin only this is a way
1:02:13
this is how we usher in a better world.
1:02:15
And go an orange pill. A loved one this week.
1:02:18
Whether you do it with tact or like a crazy bitcoiner, the goal
1:02:23
is getting people to hold Bitcoin and you just got to
1:02:25
plant them seeds. This is all we're doing.
1:02:27
We are, we are walking hyper bitcoinization into the present
1:02:31
day. Love yourself, save in Bitcoin,
1:02:34
spread the Bitcoin world word, Love your friends and family and
1:02:39
orange pill every single person you come across.
1:02:42
Anyways, guys. I'll see you tomorrow at our
1:02:45
normal show 12:10 PM Eastern, 12:15 PM Eastern Time.
1:02:48
Sorry on on YouTube and we're out guys.
1:02:52
Peace out.