Latest / Judgement Call / HE SAYS HE'S THE ALPHA OF THE RELATIONSHIP. IS HE?

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HE SAYS HE'S THE ALPHA OF THE RELATIONSHIP. IS HE? · Judgement Call

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: She's seen it all from the bench.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: He's helped couples through it all.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Real relationships, real reactions, real talk.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: This is Judgment Call.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_08: We are talking about the manosphere today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_08: And to be clear, this is not part of Marvel Universe in any way, shape, shape, or form.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_06: What do you see when you see the manosphere?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_08: On the surface, I see ick.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_08: On the surface, I see yuck.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_08: On the surface, I see misogyny.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_08: On the surface, I see uber, uber masculinity that ain't all that masculine, right?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_08: Why isn't it masculine?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_08: Well, because think about it.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_08: A lion in the jungle doesn't have to wear a t-shirt telling you he's a lion.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_08: No, he does not.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_08: A lion walks through the jungle, finds a cool place to take a nap, and then they lay down and take a nap.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_08: Because everybody knows you're a lion.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_08: But when you get to announce it, if you gotta shout about it, then that means it ain't so.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_08: You know?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_08: And so the shouting has gotten so icky and so demeaning and so diminishing.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_08: And I get it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_08: I know exactly where here's my theory.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_08: Post-COVID, we saw women leveraging their sexuality and their femininity, primarily in different platforms like OnlyFans, right?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_08: Now what now young women had a place to go, not only to earn money, but in the new economy to get immediate attention, immediate gratification.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_08: And guys are looking and saying, okay, we don't have that.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_08: And we're getting further and further apart from our female counterpart who we want, who don't seem to any longer want us.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_08: They're out-earning us now, right?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_08: They're out educating us now.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_08: So we don't know why they would want us anymore.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_08: And so our young guys have gotten broke, more and more broke, more and more lonely, more and more alone, more and more seckless, and they're angry.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_08: And I think this, I think the manosphere is in response to that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_08: Power hates a vacuum.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_08: Females have leveraged their light, and then we've got some dark manosphere out there that rolls to meet it.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_06: But what you're telling me, though, underneath those loud, dark voices, is a real concern that we have about men who are young men who are disaffected, basically don't feel like they are involved in humanity and life.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_06: Is that is is did I get you right?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_08: 100%.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_08: They feel like they're getting left behind and they're not wrong, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_08: Because women are out educating them, which means women are out-earning them.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_08: And for the women who aren't going the education route, they have the social media route where we can simply leverage our sexuality.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_08: And either way, what we're doing now empowers us to say that we don't think that you are meeting our current criteria and the guys are feeling left out.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_08: And this sum of the Manosphere stuff sounds really like a desperate plea to come back to me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_06: So let's listen to some of those desperate pleas.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_05: Judgment call.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_05: I don't give a f if this hurts your feelings.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: You gotta know the f truth.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_05: And the truth is that every time you send her that text message, every time you pursue her, every time you try to be a good boyfriend, oh, I'm gonna sit on FaceTime with her until two in the morning.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I'm gonna tell her how much I love her.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I'm gonna buy her flowers, I'm gonna take her to the movies, I'm gonna cancel my plans with my friends because she said she wants to go out.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_05: All of that shit doesn't make you a good boyfriend.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: It makes you an unattractive man.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_05: You see, a man who's attractive is a man who's valuable, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: Valuable men are attractive.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: Your value, the higher it is, the more options you have in the dating market.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: Meaning you can date any girl you want if you're the most valuable man on earth.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_05: If you could date any girl you wanted, you wouldn't ever be desperate.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_05: You wouldn't ever do everything for this girl.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_05: Why?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_05: Because you wouldn't be afraid to lose her.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_05: You wouldn't be afraid to upset her sometimes.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_05: You wouldn't be afraid to go, you know what?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: I need to work today.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_05: So you're gonna have to f wait.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not taking you out today.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_05: But instead, you were so afraid of losing her, you're gonna do everything.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_05: Buy her the flowers, spend every second of your time with her.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: You're going to take her to the movies, you're gonna cancel the plans that you had, you're gonna stop working and stop going to the gym just because she wants you to go spend time with her because you're afraid of losing her.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_05: And when she sees that, she goes, Oh, you're afraid of losing me because you can't do better.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_05: You're afraid of losing me because you don't have other options.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_05: And guess what kind of man doesn't have options?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_05: A man who's not valuable.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_05: You know what that means?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_05: If a man isn't valuable, guess what?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_05: He's not attractive.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_05: Attraction is directly correlated to how valuable you are.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_05: You are signaling low value, which is why she's losing interest.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_05: And it's the reason why she's gonna fucking cheat on you and leave you.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_06: Now, it's the word value for me, how he defined it.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I'm saying?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna tell you a quick story.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_06: Uh-huh.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_06: When my husband and I were dating, and I had a few options back in the day.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_08: As you should.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_06: And one night he came to pick me up and he was late and I wouldn't go 15 minutes late.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_06: The next time he came to pick me up, he was on time.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_07: Uh-huh.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_06: And he was on time from then on.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_06: I thought that had value.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_06: He was a guy who was willing to adjust for me.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_06: It didn't make him valueless.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_06: It didn't make me look like he doesn't have options.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_06: It's like this guy loves likes me enough to alter what he does for me in a very, very small way.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_06: Right, right, right.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_06: And that to me had value.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_08: In a small way that had a big impact.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_06: Huge impact.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_06: Huge impact.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_06: And it's not about you versus me.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna can't I didn't make him cancel his plans or cancel that.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_06: No, it's all of that extreme mountainous stuff that he was he was talking about is is is not what's happening.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_06: Small kindnesses towards a woman you love does not make you look like you don't have value.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, right.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's not a game like that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, no, I appreciate you sorry.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_08: I I appreciate you sharing that story because that's where the true value lies over the long haul, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_08: It's not in the big things we can count, it's the small ways that I see you considering me.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, it's not about attraction anymore, it's about about maintaining that relationship, and that's where the value is.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_06: He's talking value solely in terms of attraction.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_06: And although that's the a big issue of theirs, which which I might understand, because I understand, you know, when you're flipping that phone to the left, seven to ten hours a day.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_06: Flipping that phone.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_08: His guys and guys and guys and gals in his age group, folks in his age group, seven to ten hours a day.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_06: Flipping that phone and you're hearing that in that echo chamber of what is value, what is a man, what is a good woman, what is you know, and it becomes it gets louder and louder because it has to, because it has to outshine whatever else is on the on the internet.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_06: And you're getting very loud, very negative voices.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I mean, and it seems to be getting louder and louder, doesn't it?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_08: You know, as as we know from the data, the gaps between our young people are getting wider and wider.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_08: They're not boyfriend, they're not coupling up as much, they're certainly not getting married as much, and now we've got a group, we've got a we've got a group, a subs, a subculture that's saying we we don't even want to date.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_06: What do we do about it?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_08: Well, the first thing I would do is I would bring out my trusty mirror and I would hold up a mirror for him and I would reflect back to him what I see.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_08: Hey man, I don't know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know if you ever thought about this, man, but as I'm watching you talk and spill out all of these things that you're afraid of happening to you or that may have happened to you, you seem very angry.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know, do you feel do you feel like you're mad about it or not?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_08: You know, because sometimes it doesn't even register.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_08: But when I look at him, I see an angry guy.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_08: And now my psych mind is like, okay, we know that's a secondary emotion, so what's driving the anger?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_08: Happy, sad, scared, surprise.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_08: Those are only the four things we're ever going to feel as humans.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_08: You're not mad because you're happy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_08: Sad, scared, surprise.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_08: What happened?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_08: Who made what was the woman's name who made you feel sad, scared, or surprised?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_08: Talk to me about that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_08: You know?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_06: And then we'll get to where he's angry and get to what caused it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_06: Because the anger, as you said, is never the primary emotion, it's the secondary emotion.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_08: It's the expression of the underneath deeper thing.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I had an interesting super quick story.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_08: Um, we were doing a show.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_08: It was myself, and it was Nick Cannon's show, and he had Neo on, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_08: Love songwriter extraordinaire.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_08: And during the break, we were all talking about how we all used to be nice guys, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_08: We were the guys who would get the butterflies and we would show up with the flowers and the candy, and we would do all the things this guy's talking about not doing, and we would do all those things, and then we all had that moment where we got smacked in the face and she chose the guy who wasn't great for her.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_08: And so it taught us the wrong lesson.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, well, maybe we need to be that guy because those are the guys who seemed to get the attention and get the we all we all had that story, and what we were talking about is a shaming event.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_08: It happens at some point in middle school, happens at some point in high school.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_08: Every guy who gets to that point had a thing where he showed up as he was the good dude, the nice guy, and it backfired in a way that made him feel deeply rejected and deeply ashamed.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_08: And we went home and we vowed we would never ever feel that way again.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_08: And that's what I see, that's what I see with him, and I see what I see with a lot of the manosphere guys.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_08: As I get the bluster, but as a psychiatrist, all I see is the hurt and the shame and the rejection underneath.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_06: Why does it look so different now than it did in the I mean, there were men in the 60s and the 70s and the 80s?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_06: It's not new.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_06: So why is it taking on such a loud, negative iteration?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_08: Well, we got a new economy.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_08: How did we measure it back then?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_08: It was money, it was jobs, it was status.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_08: Well, now it's attention.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_08: And if you go on your favorite Facebook, Instagram, whatever's your favorite platform, who's getting all the attention?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_08: It's the cute girls modeling Fashionova, it's the OnlyFans girls leveraging their femininity.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_08: They've got a place to go to immediately feel better about how they feel, about how they're showing up.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_08: And guys are saying, well, we don't have that.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_08: And that's, and I'm getting left behind.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_08: And the facts are I'm getting farther and further left behind.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_08: And the thing they're not saying out loud, Judge, is, and we don't know why you would want us.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_08: Because you're out educating me, you're out-earning me.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_08: And our young ladies are saying in not so uncertain terms, and now we're looking to date older men because they have more emotional stability, they have more financial stability, they're able to match us and meet us where we are, and you guys don't seem to be.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_08: And that's a horrible, heartbreaking place to be.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_06: So, what is a woman's response to that kind of thing?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, in the dating world.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_08: I I think they have to keep doing what they're doing, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_08: We our behavior teaches us.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_08: Date the guys you want to date, date the people you want to date.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_08: Uh and if somebody's gonna be able to up their game and adjust your favorite term, their process and procedure, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_08: You were fifty Biggie was 15 minutes late.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_08: You was like, that's not good enough.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_08: He adjusted his process and procedure and was able to meet you where you expected him to, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_08: And so I think our young ladies have to do the exact same thing.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_08: Hey, this is uh I hear what you're saying and I get it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_08: We can have a conversation about it, but until something changes, I'm gonna be over here where we feel much more safe, much more comfortable, and we feel like we have a lot more things in common.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_06: Judgment call?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_06: Judgment call.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I feel for the 70%.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_06: I do.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_06: And I don't want to hear any more from the 30.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_08: I did right, yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_06: I have judgment call for the 70%.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_08: Judgment judgment call for the 30.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_08: His his fears are valid, his pain is valid, right?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_08: His frustration is valid.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_08: The manner in which you're attempting to solve it is not.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_06: It's not the way you want to go.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Judgment call.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: Men are dogs and women are cats.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you show a dog as much love as possible, the dog will love you more.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: But it's not really the same with the cat.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: The way to play with cats is basically you just sit there and act like you don't really want the cat, and then the cat will come up to you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: Or it might not.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can't really control the cat.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: There's no point chasing it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: You just sit there, act like you're having fun, and the cat will come up, and you can play with the cat when it wants you to play with it, and then you need to be fine when the cat is going off somewhere else by itself and it's getting played with by another person.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: But dogs are different.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: Dogs are loyal, dogs are honest.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: If you show a dog love, it will love you more.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: If you show a dog affection, it will show you more affection.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: So, for the girls who want to date guys, treat them like dogs and give them as much affection and attention and love as possible, and the guy will like you more.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: But for guys who want to date girls, you've got to treat girls like cats and basically just let them like roam the streets.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: Just let them roam the streets from whence they came.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: And when she wants you to play with her, she'll come to you.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: And you've just got to enjoy your time with the cat.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: When she comes to you, never actually go to her.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you've ever tried like to play with an actual literal cat when it doesn't want to play with you, it's just like weird, it's annoying, you feel like shit.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like, come on, please, like, do something like you're trying to grab it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_06: I've had enough.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_06: That's enough.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_06: That's enough.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_06: That's enough.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_06: That's enough.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_06: That is the worst metaphor I have ever heard.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_06: Men are like dogs and women are like cats, and you let them roam around and you never come.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_06: I don't even know where he got that stuff from.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_08: The more he talked, the more I saw your foot jumping over there.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_08: Let me hear something.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_08: Let me hear about this energy.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it just, it, it, it just, he decided it was a metaphor.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: That I'm gonna call men dogs and women cats.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_06: It's not gonna have any relationship to the actual things that they do.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_06: Because back in the day, when men were dogs, we were talking about them not being loyal.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: We were talking about them being disloyal.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_06: You know, you a dog.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_06: You're gonna dog me out with you, dog.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_08: Dogs are the ones who are in the streets running around.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_06: Running around with it, not just the loyal ones.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_06: So I don't know what he's talking about.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know where he got it from.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_06: He got he got it, he got a camera, he got a metaphor, and he has some time.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_08: He's gotta chest.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_08: That is listening.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_08: You know, and in the words of Kevin Hart, he's saying it with his chest literally.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_06: Most definitely.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_08: You know, what are we gonna say?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_06: I think we've given him all the time he deserves.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I hear underneath?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_08: What?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_08: I hear a I hear a deeper question underneath.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_08: How do I keep a girl I like from not cheating on me?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, as he feels it's it's unattainable as it is from love from a cat.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_08: Now, there is some old uh there's some old ancient analogies there, the cat and the string, uh, which has been around for a long time when it comes to dating and being flirtatious and eroticism.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_08: And it talks about, and it's not, it's not gender specific.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_08: It kind of goes back and forth.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_08: But like, listen, okay, there's a cat, imagine a cat, imagine a string.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_08: There's a string dangling, and as long as that string is dangling, cat's gonna try to be interested and try to catch the string and play with it and do all these things.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_08: As soon as the cat gets the string, the cat's like, yep, all right, I'm not interested anymore.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_08: And the logic was that kind of pendulum swings back and forth in every relationship.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_06: Right, enough mystery to secure a return visit.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_08: Esther Perrell talks about it brilliantly.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_08: She talks about the mystery and the surprise that is needed to maintain that connection over the course of your relationship.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_08: Three decades, three decades your marriage, and my guess is there was still so much more to learn about him.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_06: You you never get finished unpeeling the layers because they change as as the years go on.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_06: And three decades in, we were still learning.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_08: Cat and string.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_08: There's there's a whole universe inside you that nobody's ever going to really know.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_08: And so you decide when you show it and when you don't.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_08: So in that, in that analogy, it the cat and the string kind of sort of, we understand that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_06: That that yeah, that makes a lot more sense than the cat and the dog.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_06: That's just icky.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he just got into deep.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_08: That's just icky, and that's just, and I hear the, and I hear the I hear the fearful question underneath.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I mean?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_08: How do I protect myself when the person I like starts to not like me back?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Judge, can I interject something here?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, you certainly can, Madison.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: He is actually selling courses on dating.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_06: Oh.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_06: Oh.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_06: And is he topless in the courses?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_06: A platform and opinion does not an expert make.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_08: No.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_06: And he has a platform and an opinion, but I'm just not sure where he gets the advice, dating advice.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, he might do well in the dating world just because he's fine.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_08: He's attractive.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_08: He's good looking.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_08: Right, he's good looking.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_06: You know, so that doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_06: That just means you are, I don't know what you're doing.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_08: Well, listen, if you're gonna listen to clowns and you're gonna take advice from clowns, don't be surprised when your life turns into a circus.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_06: There you go.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, you know, and I get it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_08: I hear the question underneath.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_08: The question underneath begs, we don't have control here, right?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_08: We can't.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_08: What he literally said was, you can't control when she comes to play with you and when she doesn't.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_08: I feel powerless.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_08: I feel like I don't have any control.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_08: The only thing I can do is classify in her way that makes me care less when it happens.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_06: There you go.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Judgment call.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies, what is the best way to become a girlfriend rather than a casual screw of a very attractive alpha male?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's possible because I was a girlfriend of one for about a year when I was 18 to 19 years old.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm 21, just turned drinking age, so it's not too late for me if I move fast.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to repeat my past success, but for a few more years than one, obviously.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can a woman successfully keep an alpha?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to become one of those old alpha widows.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to snag one before I'm 28, giving me more than a couple of years to work on doing it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_06: I'm trying to snag one before I'm 28 because I don't want to be an old alpha widow.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_06: Honestly, my 66-year-old behind us hates that.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_06: Go ahead.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I need to know how to impress him, how to make him want me, and how to keep him.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_08: First of all, there's a lot to unpack.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_06: There's a whole lot to unpack.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_06: Why do you want an alpha male?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_06: That would be the first thing that I would ask her.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, they're as defined on the internet, they're tough to keep, they're a lot of work.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_06: What is this pursuit of that alpha male about?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_06: And what does that say about you?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: Why do you need that figurehead of a man?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_06: Because it really isn't a man.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's just a resume that you're looking at.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_08: How do you define alpha in your particular situation?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_08: What is it about you that makes you want to pick a guy who makes you show up every day and have to prove your worth and your value to him?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_06: I I don't get it.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_08: That's the that's the question.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I mean?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_08: And on the other side of being chosen, what is it about having somebody like that choose you that finally helps you feel whole?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_06: Right, right.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I mean?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_06: The need I have to understand more.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_06: I don't want to tell her how to do something if that something is not something she ought to be doing.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_08: Right, right.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_08: There's many a therapist who's bought many a boat having people like her in therapy.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, because there's a lot to unpack there.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I mean?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_08: There's a lot to unpack.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_08: And I want, I want to, I want some history.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_08: This this is one of those things that just really gets me going because I want the I brought the backstory so much.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I want what brought her there.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_08: Tell me about your relationship with your dad.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_08: Was he was he there or no?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_08: What kind of guy was he?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_08: How do we feel how do we feel about him?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_08: Where did where did we make the turn where this is the thing that you set your sights on because this is the thing that lights you up?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_08: A guy who doesn't treat you very well, and a guy who doesn't treat you like a priority, but a guy who makes you have to step up every single day and prove yourself over and over.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_08: So I hear I hear insecurity behind that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_06: And I also hear her listening to the internet a little bit.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_06: For sure.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, alpha male.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_06: We that concept was not out there like that when I was up growing up and and and dating and all that kind of stuff.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_06: And everybody's talking about the alpha male, you have to be this, you have to be over six feet, you have to be that, you have to be the other thing.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_06: But I can't define it that way.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_06: I can't define it that way.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_08: I do, I do.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_08: And if you're defining it that way, you're also putting yourself in a very tiny box.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_08: Over six feet, over six figures, you immediately whittle out 99% of the guys in this country.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_06: And you're also taking a snapdot in time, you know, just because he doesn't have$100,000 now doesn't mean he might not have one someday.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_06: So if you're looking for a fully made man or present it to you all finished and complete and everything, you're gonna have a tough time keeping that guy.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_06: Work with a dude, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_06: Work with him, bring him up hand in hand.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_08: But this is this is the Instagramification of the culture because I like because we need it now.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_08: I don't have time to wait three or four years because I need something to post tomorrow.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_08: Gratification, the immediate gratification.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_08: Gotta have it right now.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_08: And if I put that time in and it doesn't work how I thought, you know what I noticed with a lot of our younger folks right now is that they don't know how to take the rejection well.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_08: No, the guys more so than the gals, but we don't know how to take disappointment well.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_08: It makes us feel deeply ashamed and not a part of the group because I now.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_08: I don't have anything to share.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_06: Do you think that has anything to do with the way we boomers?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, not you need a boomer.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_06: I'm a boomer.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_06: Parented.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_06: Did we get to gift them too much?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_06: Were they too entitled if they can't take rejection?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_08: I don't I don't think so.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_08: I think I think we spend so much time here now.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_06: I gotcha.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_08: Uh there used to be a time where you could go to a grocery store and meet people.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_08: You could go to your favorite restaurant and meet people.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_08: There are places to go and you would you weren't deathly afraid of saying hi.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_08: Now we are not adept at that because most of what our what we do in our interactions is here.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: I was in uh LA once and there were some uh very fascinating people there and a young brother on his phone and I tapped his arm and I said, Honey, you're saying it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_06: These people from England, these people are from Australia, we're all sitting here talking.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_06: Don't miss it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_06: Looking at something you can look at when you get back up in your room.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_06: And he put the phone down and he absolutely he actually thanked me.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, I could have missed this, and I didn't.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_08: Check that out, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_08: We're we're missing the moments.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_08: We think we're we think this helps us seize the moment, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_08: Because we're we're so scared.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_08: It's FOMO.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_08: We're so scared of missing out.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_08: We don't want to well, it's happening.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_08: I don't want to miss out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_08: It's like they're going live right now, something's going on, but it makes you really, really inadept at doing the human thing now because we don't know how to read.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_08: I know how I know what you would be thinking if I were watching you on Instagram, but in the room, I'm not sure.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and it's it's they were raised differently.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_06: They did this generation has had phones since they're in their formative years, and the play generation where we were sent out to do that, we would work out things and discover ourselves and figure out how to resolve disputes with friends.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_06: We don't do that now.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_08: We don't do that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_08: There's never been a time where there wasn't Snapchat.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_08: And so I think it's I think it's different, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_08: Uh the way we the way we can we're still humans and we're looking for connections, but the avenues we have to explore those connections are very, very different now.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_08: And the way we do it so much online, it makes it harder and harder for us to do the real thing in person.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_08: And a lot of this is what we're seeing.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_06: And we need to speak to the hearts of those young men that are that are so lost out there because it's valid.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_06: It's a real thing.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_06: It's a real valid concern.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_06: It's a real thing.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_06: We've got to do it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_06: Just because it shows up so ugly in some aspects doesn't mean it's not a real Judge.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_08: I'll tell you a quick story.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_08: I had a I got a 15-year-old kid who I was seeing for the last couple of years, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_08: Coolest kid in the world.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_08: His mom, he and his mom, his mom is teaching him old school hip-hop, and he's got right, he's got his own quirky personality.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_08: Um, he struggles with the social scene.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_08: He got a girlfriend.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and it didn't go well.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_08: And the relationship was 90% online.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_08: And she breaks up with him.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_08: And not only does he spiral, but he crumbles.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_06: Because he doesn't know resilience.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_08: He doesn't no no resilience, and I don't know how to take the rejection well.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_08: So now what does this mean?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_08: I finally found this person who I struggled to find, and they feel like they got me, and we got this connection, and now they don't want me, and now I don't know what to do, and now I have nothing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_08: And a week later he was in the hospital because he was suicidal.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_06: Because he couldn't take the rejection.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_06: That's where we are.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_06: How did we get here?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_06: On that note, let's go to our next thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, you know, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_08: It's uh it's sweet kid, but my good you know, it's like, how do we and the word you touched on the word is resilience.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_08: How do we build that social resilience back?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_08: Because now a lot of us really have to be.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely, you have all and it's not just a young people thing.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_08: We've got middle-aged folks who don't have that resilience, you know?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_06: We don't, yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Judgment call women need someone better than them, smarter than them, fitter than them, bigger than them, more inspiring than them, uh, more successful than them.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, uh where's the attraction?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's true.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm no, I'm asking.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe some women don't mind, but I mind.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be inspired by the guy, otherwise, I'll eat them for breakfast and I'll finish them off in 24 hours.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just you know, I also need someone to handle me.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And only an alpha or a double alpha can do that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_06: First of all, I never heard of a double alpha before.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_06: Never heard double alpha?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_06: Is there a triple alpha?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, there will be.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_06: You know, we're so into labels these days, it's absolutely ridiculous.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_06: And you meet an individual with all of their traits and their and their proclivities, and everybody is so busy putting labels on the largest things about ourselves.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_06: A double alpha, somebody gotta handle me, and I've got he's got to inspire me, and I gotta look up to him.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_06: You know, my husband inspired me, right?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_06: But it wasn't because you know he was telling me what to do or, you know, was a double alpha or whatever, you know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, he was alpha to me.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_08: Well, the first words you said hurt my heart.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_08: I need somebody who's better than me.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_08: Oh my god.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_08: You know, what is that?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_08: Oh my god.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_08: So my my my psych-minded reframe is the reframe for me is I need a guy who helps me feel inferior, who helps me wake up every day and have to invent ways to prove my worth and prove my value to him so that he will pick me.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_08: And in the event that I am chosen by him, then I will finally feel like who I am as an author.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_06: And have to continue to keep that up throughout the course of the relationship because he's better than me.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_06: And he has to handle me and he has to do that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_06: Now, you can be in any kind of relationship you want to.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_06: You can do anything you want to do.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's your choice.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's your choice, it's it's your business.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_06: If you feel like your your person has to be better than you, but what what frightens me is the proliferation of this uh commentary without some uh countervailing you know, interest in we're all individuals, and let's stop looking at it as I'm in this bucket, I need a man out of that bucket, or I need a woman out of this bucket.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_06: I need somebody that I can I can deal with on the long term.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_06: And it and none of that will show up on a on a resume or on a piece of paper.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_08: It just doesn't.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_08: I know I don't know where you if that's her criteria, I don't know where she goes to find long-term happiness.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know how she sustains joy if that's what she's looking for.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_08: I can't imagine think about what she just said.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_08: I need a guy who's better than me.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_08: In what respect I mean better.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_08: I don't get that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_08: To say that out loud, even if you thought it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_08: To say that out loud, you know what?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_08: I like I like dating folks who are better than me because you know, they help, they help put me in my place.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_08: Otherwise, I will eat him alive.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_08: You ain't eating nobody alive.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_08: That kind of attitude right there.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_08: And now here's the other thing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_08: If I'm that guy, if I'm double, triple, quadruple alpha, you know who I'm not looking for?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_08: Her.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_08: I'm looking for somebody like me who can who can who can step up with me, who's on my level, who can keep up with me, who can teach me some things.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_08: Because true, if we're if we're using that label and we're talking about alpha guys and successful people in the world, what the most successful guy or gal in the world knows is that they don't know everything.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_08: And I want somebody to teach me something.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_08: Absolutely.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_08: If I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_08: You ought to go somewhere where you can, you can be, you can level up.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I could be stretched, and I want my life partner to be that person where we can grow and learn things from each other.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_08: I because doing the whole alpha thing the way she lined it up is not only exhausting, but he's gonna get very bored.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_06: Now maybe she's talking about leadership, though.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_06: There are some women out there and some religious, you know, concepts they're saying the man should be in the lead.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_06: What do you feel about that?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_08: Well, if we're talking about emotional leadership, sure.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_08: If we're talking about being able to walk into the room and in the true in my in my mind, when I think about the true essence of masculine energy, the word that comes to my mind is consistency.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_08: It's steady.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_08: I heard you talk about it with Big E all the time.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_06: All the time, right?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_06: Steady.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_06: Right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_06: Count on him.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_06: You you show up, you didn't you don't worry about him, not wishy-washy, not am I good enough, not is he gonna do right?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_06: It's like, I know what he's gonna do.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_06: He's gonna do the right thing.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_06: Or as close to it as he can get in any particular circumstance.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_08: And when you when you knew you could count on that steadiness, how did that help you feel?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_06: He calmed me down, right?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_06: Cooled me out, right?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_06: Made me easier to be with.
• 30:58
  unknown: Right.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_06: Because I wasn't as nervous and impatient because I had the rock of Gibraltar right next to me.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_08: So if that's the kind of leadership we're talking about, I'm all for that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_06: That's different than that, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_08: Which is different than better than me.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_06: That's different.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I don't know if she just, I don't know.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_08: It could be a poor choice of words, and if that's the case, I give you the benefit of the doubt.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_08: But something tells me that's not.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_08: A poor choice of words.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_08: Because of what she described.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_08: Because of the detail she went on to describe.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_08: But masculine energy says, whatever is happening, I'm along for the ride.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_08: If you're up today, I'm up with you.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_08: If you're down today, I'm down with you.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_08: If you're left, I'm gonna meet you in the left.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_08: If you're right, I'm gonna meet you over at the right.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_08: And at the end of the day, I can't tell you how right now, but at the end of the day, it's all gonna be okay.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_06: And it doesn't diminish me to do that at all.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_06: At all.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_06: In fact, it aggrandizes me because I am providing for my woman those things that she needs.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_06: Right, right.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_08: So when we talk about protection providing, when I think about true masculine energy, that's the thing you're there to provide, dude.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_08: You're there to provide that emotional base where everybody in your house knows that we're gonna be okay, regardless of what comes next.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_06: That is so true.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_08: It's so, so very true.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_08: I want to hear from our ladies out there.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_08: And I want to, if there are the ladies out there who agree with what she's saying, hey, I need a I need a guy who's gonna challenge me, who's gonna make me kind of step up.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_08: Let I wanna know why.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_08: I want to know what you get out of that part of the chase.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_08: Is it a turn on?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_08: Is it a chase?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_08: Is it the get?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_08: And when I get the guy like that, well, I want to know.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_08: I want to hear from you guys.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_06: Or or or is she just looking for a good leader?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_06: And do you need somebody to lead you?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_06: You know, right.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_06: Is that something that you're looking for?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_08: And for my alphas and double and triple alphas out there, is somebody like that who you're looking for long term?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_08: Because that could provide a lot of answers uh and and a lot of information to adjust our thinking there.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_08: So judgment call.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_08: I will, I will defer.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_06: My judgment is uh she missed the mark.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, she she missed the bullseye.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, or or is is is aiming towards a wrong bullseye.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_06: Because better than me is not what you're looking for.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_06: How can there's ick in the comparison?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_06: Better than me.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I the fact that those are the words she was able to form breaks my heart for her.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_08: You know?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_08: Uh call me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_08: I got a good therapist for you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_08: Judgment call.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Judge, doctor, we got someone here who needs some advice, okay?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:52
  unknown: Okay.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I need advice on getting him to commit and propose.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, all.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I, 26 female and boyfriend, 26 male, have been dating for a year and a half.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to get married.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to lock him down, as he is a very successful provider that leads me in masculinity in all the ways I want in our relationship.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want him to get down and propose as soon as possible.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Any tips on how to do this or some ways that I can force him to propose?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've asked him about proposing and he says early 2027, but I don't want to wait this long, especially since he wants me to move in at the end of 2026.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: I would draw my line at moving in without the marriage.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_06: I would draw my line there.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_08: Ah okay, interesting.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_08: Why would you say that?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_06: Number one, marriages that occur after living together tend to break up more than otherwise.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_06: It's it seems counterintuitive, but it's very, very true.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_06: That is one thing.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_06: Number two, once you move in, you can become installed.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_06: In other words, you're the most convenient appliance that he has.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_06: You're cooking, you're cleaning, you're doing all that kind of stuff, you're doing all the home, the homework, and you don't want to give it up because you put so much time into it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_06: So he's not forced to do anything.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_06: Wifely duties for the wifely duties and go girlfriend prices.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_06: That's it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, don't ever do wifely duties and girlfriend prices.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_06: And I honestly don't believe that.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_06: And you, if you want to marry a guy, you got to understand who that guy is.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_06: Listen to him.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_06: It's not about who can I, what procedure can I have to lock this cat down.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_06: It's who is he and how can I be be what he needs me to be as his wife.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_08: And it sounds like he's invested.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_08: It sounds like he's on the ride.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_08: So he's like, hey, there's a natural progression to things, and I'm I'm willing to do that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_08: And he even went so far as to give her a timeline.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_08: Well, what do we think about, you know, 2027 for a proposal and then kind of go from there.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_08: So I think, I think she's a she's much farther ahead of the game than she thinks.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_08: So my question to her is why, what's the pressure?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_08: What's the rush?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_08: You guys are 26, 27 years old, right?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_08: You're not even 28 yet.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_08: There's no there's no clock ticking in terms of if we want to have kids, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_08: We got a lot of time.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of time that, yeah, more time than we used to think.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_08: You know what I mean?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_08: Um I she's like, he's a good guy, he's a successful guy, he's a massive provider.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_08: So I get that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_08: And so I wonder if the pressure is, as she said, how do I lock him?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_08: Look him down, yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yep.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_08: All aka, how do I make sure that nobody else gets him before me?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_08: So that's the that's the wrong game to play, I think.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_06: I think so too.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_06: I think so too.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_06: You know, you gotta understand your dude, what he needs, what he wants, and you gotta get to give it to him.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_06: And uh, but don't move in until you're married.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_06: I love that advice.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_06: I love that advice.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_06: Never do wife duties at girlfriend prices.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_08: I don't believe it.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_08: And you never know somebody until you move in and live with them.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_08: With them, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_08: There could be some things she discovers that she may that may be deal breakers for her.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_08: Right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_08: Absolutely.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_08: So yeah, I love I love that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_06: So judgment call for him doing it when he wants to, and and nobody trying to force him.
• 37:14
  unknown: Right.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_06: You know, you don't want that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, just like little kids have milestones, they have to meet it at right as a certain at a certain age, every kid's gotta be able to push up off the bed, then roll over, then say two words, then take a couple of steps, right?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_08: Those, and if they meet those milestones late, that's an indicator they may have problems later on.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_08: Relationships are the same way.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_08: You've got to meet those milestones and you've got to be on the same page when it's time for those milestones, right?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_08: We need to agree.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, we've gone out on a few dates, this seems like a good fit.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_08: Are we ready to be exclusive?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, let's move forward.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_08: Great, okay.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_08: We've been out, we've been exclusive now for a year.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_08: Are we ready to make it a little more official?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_08: Do we want to get it in?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, I think we should meet that milestone together.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_08: If you meet those milestones together, then we got a good shot.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_08: But if one person feels forced or rushed into it, then that's going to lead to some underlying resentment.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_08: It's gonna come out later on.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_06: But don't move in with it.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_06: Did you hear that part?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_06: Huh?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_06: Did you hear that part?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, that's the call to action.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_06: Do not judgment call.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_06: Don't move in with it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_08: I love that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_08: So, what did we learn today, Dr.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_08: Ish?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I think we learned that power hates a vacuum.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_08: And when women found an avenue to leverage their femininity and their sexuality, that left a big void for guys to have to try and fill.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, in the best case scenario, the manosphere helps a lot of guys find a path to feel better about who they are and how they're showing up.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_08: Best case scenario.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_08: And then we've got the icky part of the scenario where it has to tear women down in order to do so.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_08: You know?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, so I want there to be a balance struck.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_08: I want there to be some honesty on the guy's part to say, hey, listen, I we still we like you, and we don't think you like us anymore.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_08: You remember, you remember uh I remember the first love letter I ever wrote in first grade.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_08: I like you, do you like me?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_08: Checkmark and yes or no, right?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_06: Check mark, yes or no.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_08: I want our manosphere bros to get back to that.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_08: Hey, I like you, I don't know if you like me.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_08: Could you check yes or no?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_06: And the resilience piece, though, if you get a no, you know what to do with it, which is not live it, not breathe it, not get angry at it, or the person that gave it to you.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_06: You have to be resilient with it.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_08: Right, right.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_08: There is some underlying rage, there's some underlying anger at the rejection.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_08: I need you to understand that a delay is not a denial, a rejection is just a redirection, right?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_08: That's just not your person today.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_08: There's gonna be another person for you tomorrow.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_08: And so we can live with that.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_08: So that's uh that's where we are, but uh, I need them to start having, we gotta start having a conversation.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_08: A combination conversation, right?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_08: And I want to hear from folks.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_08: I want to hear from I want to hear from my master bros, right?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_08: I want to hear from my super masculine, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_08: Uh muscled up, bare chested guys who are out there doing the thing.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_08: And let me know if you're happy with that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_06: And I'd like to know through the ladies, what are you looking for?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_06: Why is it an alpha male?
• 40:22
  unknown: Right?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_06: Why does he have to be over six feet?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_06: Now, I know I chose a husband over six feet, but all my people, my dad was five two, my sister four ten, my grandmother four eight.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_06: If my sons were gonna have a chance of being anything other than five foot, I had to have a tall guy.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_06: Understood.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_06: Understood.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_06: And I had a specific reason for it.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_06: Understood.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_06: I'm just totally understood.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_06: But if I fell in love and he was five foot ten, I would have done that too.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_08: Right, exactly.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_08: My you know, my question is if this is getting you what you want, then do it.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_08: But more and more evidence suggests that not only is it not getting you guys what you want, but it's getting to be such a huge turn off that you're no longer even wanting it.
• 40:59
  unknown: Right.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: She's seen it all from the bench.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: He's helped couples through it all.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Real relationships, real reactions, real talk.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: This is Judgment Call.