Latest / Mothering / S1Ep2 | Bridgid - You Can Have It All, But Not All At Once. IVF, Three Miscarriages & a Workaholic Reckoning

Transcript

S1Ep2 | Bridgid - You Can Have It All, But Not All At Once. IVF, Three Miscarriages & a Workaholic Reckoning · Mothering

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do it all at once.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought I could.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't want to.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to spend time with my kid.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be at work five days a week.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do seven till seven constantly.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just not even think about it.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was obsessed.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a workaholic.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's only so much time.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Your kids are only yet once.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really think that bottom society has it wrong.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think there should be a period in our lives where we're encouraged to spend it with family.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: You should meant to be doing the most important job shaping these little humans.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you're also trying to organise a spreadsheet for marketing or run an event.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems so trivial when you're considering what you're actually trying to do at home with your little human.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Mothering Podcast, and I'm your host, Carly.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode I sit down with women who speak honestly about their life-changing transition into motherhood and what becoming a mother actually feels like.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Please be mindful when little ears are listening to this podcast, as we can get a bit sweary and vibrant.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: One last notice to say that this is an inclusive space.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: While we touch on a lot of physical and psychological changes that the female body goes through immatrescence, the use of the term mother can encompass any person who identifies as a mother and takes on that extremely important and nurturing role.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I sat down with Bridget, who works as a mother to her 15-month-old son and a business operations manager at one of the big four companies.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Bridget talks about how it took her and her partner a while to conceive and they eventually went down the IVF route.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: She experienced three miscarriages and one of them was really traumatic at 12 weeks.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: She absolutely did not enjoy pregnancy.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: She had a condition called polyhydromenous, which is having excess fluid around the baby.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bridget also talks about how before having a baby she was a workaholic and how being a mother has changed her view on work altogether.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: She has a lot to say about how modern society has it wrong for young families.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: This episode will not disappoint.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you love it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the mothering podcast, Bridget.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to start by saying who's in your family, where you're living, and what mothering looks like for you at the moment?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: In my family at present, as me, as my husband, Scott, and then we have baby Jack, who is nearly 15 months, and then we have Walter, the Bernese mountain dog, who's also a baby.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's part of our family.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he is 17 months.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we're in Kensington, near the city, beautiful, down by the river.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And mothering at the moment, oh, it's busy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like hectic.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've been back at work three months now, and I work a point seven, which is three and a half days a week.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I work for a very big company that's very busy, and I get slammed at work and then I come home and get slammed by Bibba Jack.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very fun, it's busy but wholesome, I think, is probably the best way to kind of go with it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I also have like little side projects because you know life isn't enough with just work and tell me about your side projects.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I used to do creative ventures.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the moment for our family, I'm doing some sewing for our couch because our dog demolished our last couch.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a long story, it's very unsavory.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: He got sick all over the couch one morning and I came downstairs and then we thought we could save it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we we couldn't.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: We had to sell like we just threw the couch.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was ruined.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I've made these epic couch covers with like backing and everything.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But also creative at heart.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I understand.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just love making things with my hands.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just started to learn how to crochet, actually, and I crocheted Isla, my three-year-old beanie.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Did it fit her head?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I tried.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And next time I will be better.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did it fit Odie though?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was too big.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so it's in between.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's too big for everyone.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: She'll get future use out of it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, on that note, talking about mothering, did you always feel like you wanted children?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted babies.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved babies since I was young.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I come from a big family, like extended family.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So both my parents have five siblings.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: My dad has five sisters, and my mum has three brothers and two sisters.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: One brother unfortunately has passed away, but everyone else is still around.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so you'd think I'd have lots of cousins, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do not.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have seven cousins.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's still a decent amount.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I no, I feel ripped off.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's not even one per like.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, comparative to the amount of aunties and uncles.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've loved hanging out.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was always looking after them and playing with them.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: But my husband didn't want kids.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So isn't that funny?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was early I was really upfront early on we met in my late 20s, his early 30s, and I was just like, Well, if you don't want kids, this isn't gonna work.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So But he wanted you that bad.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: He stuck around, he stayed, stayed for the ride.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so what was your uh pregnancy birth story in a really light touch?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were there any strong feelings about it?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Were there any big key events?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: What was kind of having a baby like for you?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we like didn't have your standard journey to becoming a mum.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, although I always wanted to be a mum and knew from a young age that I wanted to be a mum, it probably wasn't as straightforward for us as like your average kind of couple.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um we had like it just took us a long time to kind of conceive, and I had a friend who worked at I think she must have worked at Monash IVF or something, and I remember being in my late 20s and having like, if you haven't had your first baby by 32 and you wait two years and you're still having trouble, she's like, you need to go like sort it out, like you need to go get everything.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we tried for two years, had been unsuccessful, and so then we thought, oh, we better just go put some on reserve.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't that sound horrible?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Better put some babies on reserve.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I was about 36 at the time, and we went to a rantom IVF clinic, did two rounds of IVF to have some embryos, and we were really unsuccessful, and it was quite shocking.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, what do you mean we can't have babies?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh, there's something up, but we don't know what.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was very emotional, very stressful.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I found it really challenging, kind of grappling with the fact that maybe we weren't gonna have a family, and I was like, What was that look like?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: We had lots of conversations around that, and then I called the IVF clinic to start another round, and I thought I should do a pregnancy test just in case because you don't want to start pumping yourself full of drugs.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do they check that anyway when you go in, or is that up to you?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, your next podcast should be on IVF.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is wild, it's a rodeo.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Australian IVF is a complete rodeo.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I definitely have a couple of people in my life who have gone down that road.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely wild.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you call them and to make an appointment, and they're meant to call you back, and you don't get a phone call, and then you call them again, you're like, hey, someone's meant to call me about like my drugs I'm meant to be taking.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Having a baby, making a human being.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but we ended up being pregnant, so we were like, oh cool, like that's a little bit unexpected.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we were almost at our 13-week appointment.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'd done the NIPT test, and we were three days away, and it was Easter Sunday.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I've had some spotting, and my mum is quite a senior, well, was a senior midwife, she retired earlier this year, but and then she was away, and I called her and I said, Oh mum, I'm having spotting.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Don't worry about it, it happens, like just rest.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you're stressed out, just rest.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd spent the day like chilling out, watching movies on the couch, and we had to go feed their cat.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: They have this old great cat who's like Wesley, he's so old.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's literally like his little grandpa cat.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Wesler, he's so cute.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had to go feed Wesley, and I'm like, Alright, Scott's like, just stay at home if you want.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, nah, I'm coming with you.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I need to get out of the house.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we go to mum and dad's house, and I step out of the car, and I just feel like a gush.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What has happened?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was freaking out.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Scott's in the car and had no idea what was going on because their driveway is really thin, you have to kind of get out and then drive in, and then the other like the driver can get out.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a put a hilly thing.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he hopped out of the car and was like, What's wrong?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like trying to get inside, and I get inside, and I was just like hemorrhaging, like nobody's business, and it was horrible.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But we're very fortunate again because my mum's a midwife, and I look at that point I knew I'd lost the baby, like it it had happened, like it happened.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know, don't you make me cry?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, you're kind of like, Oh, this is a lot, like there was a lot going on, and so anyway, Scott comes in and he's like, What are you doing?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you okay?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've just run inside.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um hysterical, and he's like, I'll call an ambulance, I'll call an ambulance.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, call my mum.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so he calls mum.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You always want your mum in these times, don't you?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I spoke to my mum and she's driving to Sydney, and I'm like, Mom, there's blood everywhere.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Go to hospital, and Scott's like in the back, like she's on loudspeaker, and Scott's like, Do I call an ambulance?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, No.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, get in the car now and go to hospital.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there was literally blood all over their bathroom, and I was like, Scott, we can't leave the bathroom like this, which isn't for retrospectual.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, like, can't leave it like this.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what I'm thinking about.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, there was a shower, but mum and dad had like turned the hot water off, so I'm like, you have to go turn the hot water back on.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was all these like wild little details.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we ended up getting to hospital, went through, they confirmed that we'd lost the baby, but the problem was then I was bleeding and they couldn't stop it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I reckon probably within half an hour.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they like massive overshare, but they like pack you full of cotton to try and like stop like gauze to try and stop.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So manual.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like getting a pap smear on steroids because they're like shoving cotton wool and they're like they put you on like, you know, like puppy pea mats.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they weigh them because they want to know how much blood you've lost, so they do it by weight.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had a home birth and my midwife did that when I hemorrhaged when I had my first baby.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to find out how much I bled, they had to weigh the bluies, they call them blueies.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they lost a litre and a half.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, fun fact for you when you're pregnant, did you know your body can generate like up to the same amount of blood that it already has?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Select as five litres.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you have five litres of blood in the body and it can go.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, apparently, I don't know if that's true.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I could be wrong.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: We'll take it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why so when you hemorrhage after birth, you can hemorrhage like litres and you could be okay.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're early in pregnancy, you can't.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we lost two litres.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So 40% blood volume.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: They called a code, I passed out, got run through the hospital.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Shit.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Had an ethicist.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was like being in a movie.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And got a blood transfusion, blood products.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's actually not that uncommon for women to hemorrhage, even like miscarrying.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really lucky because we called my mum, because if we hadn't we'd called an ambulance, I would have been deprioritized and I probably wouldn't be here.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which is wild.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Epic.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or if it was twenty years earlier.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Mum.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the first time she's thinking about it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh so lucky.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Being in a place where it's down the road.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was seeking that too, because imagine if you live like in the country.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like half an hour drive.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or they don't have the right blood.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So give blood, like gifts.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do need to give give blood actually because I've got a rare thing which was a whole debacle with my second baby with Odie.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um which I won't go into because it's not about me.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I they had to have blood stores at the hospital because I bled I hemorrhaged with my first baby.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't allowed to have well, I was allowed to have a home birth, but I chose to have a hospital birth the second time.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, We need to have blood on files.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: They needed to organize it before my due date type of thing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's an intense way to start a pregnancy journey.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, your family.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of happened to stay in hospital for a while?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I have weird blood too.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was in ICU, they stabilized me.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it was serious when I had two anethodists, and one of them got a phone call and he's like, What do you need?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have an unstable patient.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Who's unstable?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, mentally, mentally physically.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I had the most beautiful nurse Phoebe.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: If she ever listens to this, I don't know if she ever will, but like she changed my life.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: If she wasn't there, would have been so bad.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Phoebe and Sophie, the doctor, Sophie with fabulous eyelashes and eyes at the Royal Women's Hospital.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening, shout out Dr.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sophie and nurse Phoebe.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I stayed overnight.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: They wanted to keep me in and move me to the ward, but I can't sleep in hospitals and I hate hospital food.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I said to them, I want to go home.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Okay, we have to we'll have to do tests, and if you meet the minimum criteria, you can go home.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to have a shower and not faint.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Manage my shower without fainting.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh, you've probably done that before.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this, yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then they check all your levels, and overnight mine had regenerated to normal, and they were like, How?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because I have a weird genetic blood thing, apparently.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then we weren't allowed to get pregnant afterwards, and we moved house and we did all these things, and it was probably three months later.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, and got pregnant with Jack, and little we didn't know it was a boy, we didn't find out the sex.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was really excited, but also really nervous, obviously, because I'd lost so much blood before.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'd actually had two previous miscarriages prior to that, but they were just like like earlier, like before eight weeks kind of thing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think also there's a very big difference when you miscarry and you come out going, Oh, I could have died, rather than just losing a baby, like because it's put in perspective.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for you, you've had a very traumatic experience.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So comparative to your other pregnancies and miscarriages, yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to compare.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You also are very grateful that one, you live in a country where you have free medical, like looked after.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Two, you live in a country where we have leave and things that allow.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So like Scott got given a week off work and then they put me in a program at the women's as well for a current miscarriage, and we got that's where we actually met our obstetrician, and because of my complicated history, we decided to pay her, stay in the public system, but pay her privately.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it should be at my birth, because obviously with your first you hemorrhage, so with your second, they're concerned.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a miscarriage and hemorrhage, they're really concerned you have the possibility of hemorrhage again, it's a higher risk.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And because mine was quite quick and quite significant, they were really concerned that that would be a thing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: But then Jack was not a straightforward pregnancy either.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had a thing called polyhydramnos, which is where you have excess fluid, amniotic fluid.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So then they're worried about things like is the baby swallowing properly?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to do another gestational diabetes test, which I hated.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who's thinking of having a child, be warned.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Be warned.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually opted out of mine.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: My midwife said there was a second option, and I could get a blood test after fasting in the morning.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I went down that path.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had to pay for it, but it's worth it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't get told these things, do you?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: They don't tell you there's other options.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: They just, especially if you're in the public system, they just funnel you through the process.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: But there are other options.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I had the normal glucose and then they blood tested me the second time because I sent my obstetrician Leisha, who also, if you're looking for an obstetrician in Melbourne, amazing.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember her last name?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Masaraja.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's in the women's in the private part of the women's, the Perry's something Perry Frances Perry.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Frances Perry.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: She's the on that level where all the Frances Perry is, and she's just the best human.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because after everything that happened, I'll leave it in the show notes.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do, because after everything that happened, she was just the kindest, loveliest, funnest, like person to be there.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: She was so excited.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just was so excited that we didn't know what gender Jack was.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I also had to get an iron transfusion.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I hated pregnancy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I hated it.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would have another kid, but Scott sometimes has like shows me photos of me being pregnant and me just like lying on our stairs, like halfway up, just being like, oh my god.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I am surprised that the human race exists.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if pregnancy is like that for everyone, we wouldn't, I tell you.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: From what I've read, it's because we're having kids later.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And our bodies are just like, no thanks.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pro it I would say that's probably true.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Should have had that in my 20s, but imagine, remember what you could do in your twenties with no side.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So all nine under the influence.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine what you could do not under the influence.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you didn't like your pregnancy.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: What was let's fast forward to like um birth time and how did all that come around?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I had polyhydromos and the excess fluid.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I had a litre and a half of fluid.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Meant to have, I think, like 600 mils or something.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a heap extra.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So around 30 weeks, I went in for a scan.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I got my scans done at a place called Woomy, and my mum obviously isn't was a midwife.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So she hooked me up with like people that she thought I would like and people who were quite skilled, and because of my previous history, I went and saw a guy called Ricardo Palmadez, and he was the best as well.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like he'd talk you through everything on the screen, but he was a bit worried because the baby was quite large, so he spoke to Leisha and they told me that I couldn't have any other birth, I had to have a C-section.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Leisha told me, I'm sure he was like, said to her, let's talk about it.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think they probably talked about it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what you need to tell Bridget.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Leisha was like queen.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: She actually sat me down and was like, Okay, so this is normal, and you're like here.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, and here are the risks.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can't go to full term because the baby is big and we've got so much extra fluid.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, but you know, maybe we can induce you.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then she's like, come back in a week and we'll do another scan.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I got back in a week and she's like, I'm so sorry.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it's too much, isn't it?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, it's way too much, it's too, it's way too dangerous.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because what can happen is the umbilical cord comes out first, and then the baby loses ability to have oxygen.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't allowed to actually be far from the hospital.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So lucky we live 10 minutes away because they're like, if you go into labor early, which you might because you've got extra fluid and you're quite large because of it, um, you need to get to the hospital straight away.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: There is no waiting round or anything.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: If anything's strange, you have to go straight to hospital.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like at home, chilling out.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the most surreal thing because when you're gonna have a baby, you're like, oh, I'll have one, like it'll happen in the next couple of weeks, kind of thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I had a date, a time, like I mean the recovery was great though, to be fair, because you're not exhausted, you haven't laboured, you just go in, they basically pull out a baby, and then that you're like, Oh, I have a baby.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, it also depends on your pain tolerance.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've haven't had a C-section, have you?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So cause they have to go through all the layers of tissue and muscle to get into uterus, like obviously there's different layers of stitches, and you've got a giant wound and you have to keep it clean.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I found it fine.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've known a few other people that found it really, really painful and weren't able to manage the pain very well.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but for me I didn't even notice it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was too busy on Jack and Yeah, loved up.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Loved up.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just cuddling my little baby who's so cute.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was so little.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think I could fall in love so deeply, so quickly.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought that was like I knew I'd love my baby, but like it's surreal because you're like, I fucking made this thing, and it's come out of inside me.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I grew it and now it's here, and now I get to touch it and hold it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: But but now it's not me, now it's this its own little independent person.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just wild.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's so magical.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember them holding Jack up over the partition-y thing, because I don't want you seeing like you got so and they're like, You can touch him.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, like run little pinky out, because I'm like, Oh, she's so lit, like his tiny little head.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they had to take him away to do an ultrasound because they were worried that because of the polyhydramnos that he couldn't swallow.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So straight away, this tiny little baby is getting taken away from me to get this ultrasound, and I can turn to Scott and I'm like, you do not leave that child's side.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You do not like they take it nowhere without you.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you do, it does not leave your vision, and he's like, Alright.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like this, it's like this demonic voice just comes over you and you're like, Don't take my baby.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like you follow that baby.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: We had a joke because I had to stay in hospital a few days after, and whenever Scott would come in and he'd go to do something with the baby, I'm like, no, my baby, and like mine, don't touch it, mine.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Ow, baby, and I was like, Mine, over.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, it is mine.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I grew it and had it, and it was part of me for nine months, attached to me.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like a limb.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys stayed in hospital and then you made your way home, and how was those first few weeks being home?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have any support?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have people there?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have visitors?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did Scott have leave?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So wild ride, Jack got a temperature in hospital.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended up having to stay a few more nights after we meant to, and he had to go to NECU, which was really not very fun.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're pumping and feeding, and poor little Jack was a bit sick, so they gave him new antibiotics.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then we went home, and they said, Oh, just be careful like this next week, don't have too many people over, just kind of keep it to immediate family.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like his little, his immune system's had a bit of a upset.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: So just be a bit wary of that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, probably 12 days later, it was 12 days, let's see it into my memory.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: He went floppy and wouldn't, like, we couldn't wake him up, he was floppy, he was hot.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we took him back into hospital, and if it's under two weeks, you take them to the women's, if it's over two weeks, you take them to the children's.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we took him in and he'd cracked another temperature and gone floppy.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So back into Nikku, um, were there another three, four days, and just getting more treatment, and it was just really, really stressful.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then we finally get to go, hunt, and they're like, okay, he's been sick twice, like, try and just be a bit of a bubble.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So for the next kind of the first eight weeks, we didn't see a lot of people.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was mainly like our immediate family, a couple of friends, not many, like we did get to see.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: My mum cooked for us.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Scott was off work for six weeks, too.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you asked how long he had two weeks annual leave, two weeks of carers' leave, and then he took two weeks unpaid because you can't drive for six weeks after a C-section.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he took six weeks off, which was amazing, but his work didn't give any parental leave because he wasn't the primary carer, and he was only eligible for two weeks.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was ridiculous.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: The bonkers, it was nuts.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And his mum and my mum and dads were amazing, like they brought us food and you know, let us have showers and kept us company, and we were really lucky actually.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Scott's sister, they used to live together when we first met, so I'm quite used to living with her.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: But she was at she lives in Denmark and she was out for like a week or two, and so she was here.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just good to have another pair of hands, like when you're trying to navigate that, especially like first child, and obviously because having a baby is not hard enough, we've just had what got Wally the puppy, and so at what point did you get him like after Jack was born?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: A week before.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we got him a week before.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So Jack was two weeks early, and Wally was like a couple weeks late.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're meant to have a month and we did it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: We were up anyway, so yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: We just toilet trained him.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was cool.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um But yeah, I had six months full pay, that was my works thing, which was just the best.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's women and men.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a dad, you get it too.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you get as it should be.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you both work at you get the first six weeks together on their parental leave as like you're both on parental leave.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then whoever goes back, it can be you know mum or dad, but generally dad, because you've got a six-week old baby, they go back to work and then they can take annual leave on that if they want extra time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then they get to take their what's six weeks off six and a half like six months.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then they get their three and a half months later, and they just get to be home with baby.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I could go back two days a week or three days a week, and he just has to be the primary carer.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So could you take it both at the same time if you wanted to?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, because it's primary, most policies are primary carer, so it would basically be 12 months in total, but then also your government pay as well.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I got paid by the government for I think it was 22 weeks or 20 weeks or something.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that, yeah.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I had my 26 weeks of work pay and then my 22 weeks.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really blessed.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I had like 48 weeks of pay, essentially, even though it wasn't like my wage, it was still like money coming towards contributing towards our home.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we were really fortunate we had a cleaner.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Once a fortnight they'd come and just like vacuum and dust and cut that kind of thing.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have to do that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the last thing you're gonna do.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I mean, my house is constantly a bum site because we just are like whatever.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So not important.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's really at the bottom of the list, isn't it?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like my we haven't had a cleaner for a little while.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking for a new one.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, Scott, we need a cleaner.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're just so busy.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to pick between vacuuming floors and reading Jack a book, I'm sorry, but Jack and the book's going first.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was only little once.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the floors will can get vacuumed whenever.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: But we do have a RoboVac.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I highly recommend investing in one.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've been talking about it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do it mid-year sales.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they mop as well.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I absolutely need the mopper.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's amazing.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get the dates off you after.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, please do.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, how would you say that your expectation of what postpartum was going to be compared to the reality of it?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was it what you assumed?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Was there anything that just blew your mind off?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Breastfeeding.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Blew like wild.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I swear, I've probably been swearing throughout this, I apologise, but I love a profanity.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome to swear because I swear.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love a profanity and a well-placed one.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's fucking miserable, breastfeeding.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to like these birthing classes, and you sit there and they're like, every three hours you need to feed your child, and you're kind of like, okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking that when you finish feeding them, you have three hours.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, it starts from the start.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: From the That blew my like, I was like, what do you mean I have to time it from the start?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: We don't that's not the way we track time.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I literally had to put alarms in my phone or I forget to feed him, and not in a mean way.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he had signs if he was hungry and they did a little like mouth thing.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we ended up having to triple feed because he was in Niku twice.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: We did a double feed.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So breast and syringe, and that was hard enough.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even use the expressing machines because I hated the sensation, so I chose to hand express instead.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I would breastfeed, and then as soon as I was finished breastfeeding, I'd have to sit there and hand express for like 20 minutes, half an hour.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'd you'd just have a little bit of time for yourself, maybe.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'd have to feed again.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's wild.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like And the midwives or the nurses, whoever you're seeing tracking you, are so on your case about it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they make you feel like your baby's gonna die if you don't do it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I also think there's this whole thing of like, oh, being a mother's so beautiful, and it's magical and beautiful and so amazing, but it's also relentless.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: There is no room for movement sometimes.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to feed them, they have to eat.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you get up, it's three in the morning, your baby feeds maybe for an hour, then you have to burp them, then you have to swaddle them, often change their their nappy, and then you get them back to bed.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, then I'd feed him a bottle of breast milk and then a bottle of formula to make up the difference, and then to make sure he's getting enough because he wasn't gaining weight, and they're really worried about him, and then I'm pumping, and the pumps like the sounds they make, you know, and you're like there for another episode.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So off-putting.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to go clean the pump, because you know, you gotta make sure it's clean.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: So cleaning your pump, and then you get it all laid out to dry, and then you hop back into bed, and you're like, Oh, I've got 20 minutes, and my baby needs another feet, and you're back trying to go to sleep, and you're so wired because you're like, Am I gonna miss the alarm?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my goodness.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is every single night for months.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Months.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Months.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: For anyone listening that hasn't had a baby, this is the reality of feeding babies and caring for babies, especially at night time.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like the daytime is also relentless, but the night times there's this special kind of torture that comes with it because you're not just feeding it's yeah, it's all the other stuff.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get up and change nappies and get them back to sleep and rock them and sing to them and clean the bottles if that's what you're doing.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: No one tells you.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was really annoyed at some of my friends, because I was like, why didn't you tell me?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I still would have had a baby.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: But why didn't you tell me that this is what you were going through?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you'd told me this, I would have come over it and held your baby all night if they were crying.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is this real gap between no one passing on information.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's done out of love in the fact that people don't want to be honest and scare people out of it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're pregnant, you're already doing it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So be real with me.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me the truth.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I've not been perfect, I have not passed on the realities to my pregnant friends, but it's something that I really think about now because it's important.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have a beautiful friend at work, and she's 15 years younger than me.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I've said to her, and she's like, How is it?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's it like?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, It's really, really hard.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, But it's really, really equally amazing.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I keep saying to her, do it young.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the energy and the like get up and go.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: My party girl days really serve me well.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can stay up late and be up.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need a lot of sleep to function as a human.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like it's 15 months now about, and I've realized to function as a human, keep my house running, do essentially three and a half days of work, but like almost a full-time job, like do all the day-to-day, I need more sleep than three hours a night, or four hours a night.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I need about six of solid.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if I can get two lots of four, I mean like heaven.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which sounds wild to me now.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true, it's so true.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uninterrupted sleep too.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you can get a four hour period of just not getting woken up, or like if you wake up, like last night I woke up at 1.30 and I checked my phone because I was like, hmm, Jack hasn't woken me up yet.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, it's 1.30.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: He slept from like 9 30 to 1.30.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Amazing.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got four hours.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had four hours.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Two seconds later he rolls over and it's like, and I'm like, hey mate, coffee.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are the person that wakes up first and you're not waking up to a screaming child, it's actually so much better too.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's just insane.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that yours and Jack's wakes when you're not absolutely fucked, depleted?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: You'll tend to wake up at the same time.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you might wake up a little bit earlier than him, and then he wakes up.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys are in sync somehow.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just yeah, it happens all the time and it's so cool.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's very cool.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we are like there's something going on here.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: We are synergy.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: We are a little unit.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, all he goes to almost fall over, and I'll just be like and like catch him before it falls.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Scott's like, where did that come from?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like my brain's half asleep, but it's on him.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know when the girls are up to something.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because like they often go off on their own to their bedroom and like rummage through toys or books, and I just let them because like I've they're fine, I know what they're doing.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: But every now and then I'll be like, I need to go I I just have this strong urge, it's like you need to go check on them.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll go and check and they're like into something, they're into my clothes or like my sewing stuff or something.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like my body just knows.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's so remarkable.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: The intuition.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: There is this sixth sense intuition that it's so prevalent, and if you actually listen to it enough, it's really strong.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: It never goes away, I don't think either.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think of my mum, and like when I said about the you know, earlier in this conversation about the miscarriage, there have been a couple of times, very few, but a couple in my life where she's just said no to something for some reason.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that I would call myself a spirited individual and uh and very much a do what I wanted teenager.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're uh your rules are guides, not rules.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, rules are rules to be broken.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: But mum used to like once or twice she said, I just don't want you to do this, and I would be like, Oh, okay, and then something really horrible would have happened, and like it was wild, and I was like, How did you six sense that like this is really woo-woo and you're gonna be like, I'll give it a lot of it?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a woo-woo person, by the way.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh excellent.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So my mum, I don't know, I used to work the corner of um on Flinders Lane, near the corner of oh, what is it?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not exhibition spring?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's Elizabeth Street.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: For any non-Melbourne people, we're just talking about Melbourne C B D.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: CBD.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: This would have been like I think almost eight years ago, there was an incident where a guy ran through all the people walking to Flinders Street on the crossing.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I finished work, I would have been on that corner at that exact time.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: But my mum called me and she said, I just had a feeling I needed to call you this evening.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was about to look for you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember what we talked about as something ridiculous, but I ended up talking to her for like 20 minutes.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember why, but I went on the underground pass instead of over the top, and I always went over the top.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: This would have been after, so I missed all the mayhem, but I would have been there for that, and she just diverted that course.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Mum.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I feel like mum saved your bacon quite a few times.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, mum has saved my bacon a few times.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: She has, but I think it's that beautiful a weird mum connection, like it's just a weird they just agree.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Great connection.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love that story.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: No worries.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Jotting back a bit to Matt Leave, you said you got around twelve months.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just under twelve months.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like it was enough?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did you genuinely want to return to work at that time or did you feel like you had to?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so interesting because I reckon after about eight weeks I was like, I want to go back to work.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I love my baby, but I'm a bit bored because all they did was sleep and feed and that, like not bored, bored, but I was like, oh, all I'm doing is watching TV, I could do other tasks to do, like my brain is a good one.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very different life.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then once he hit three months, I was like, oh wait a second.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was wrong.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the time just what didn't they say?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: The days are long, the months are short, or something like that, or the weeks are short.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like Yeah, it just flew.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I found it really hard.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff is a real smoochy boy.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's always been a real cuddler.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of the mothers in our mother's group was always like, Oh, your baby's so cuddly.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, he is he's so cuddly.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he's a really happy little boy, but he hated daycare, and it broke me sending him.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: We'd only do a few hours to start with, we started really slow, we started in really early, and someone's like, You're paying$100 and whatever dollars to send him for like three hours.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't care.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's little, he's only a little boy, and yeah, I don't know if I was ready to go back.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love working and I love my job and I love the people I work with.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really a lucky person in that respect.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have found the transition going back hard, and I find it hard because I know that he is only little once, and like we might only get to have one kid, we might not be blessed with another, and I hate that word blessed by the way.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry I used it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, don't worry, because I feel the same, but I find it coming out of my mouth, and in the moment I'm like, I hate that word.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it, but I you know, like we may be another word.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: May not be.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel really grateful.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Grateful.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, grateful.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said to Scott, sometimes I feel like I'm really missing out.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really think that modern society has it wrong.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that families, not just mums, dads, there should be a period in our lives where we're encouraged to spend it with family and support through that and allow sorry, you can probably hear my giant dog barking.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's a watchdog, it's not his fault.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um But I think it's sucks, like, because you're meant to be doing the most important job shaping these little humans and their emotional intelligence and how to play together and how to like navigate the world, and you're trying to do that, and you're also trying to, you know, organise a spreadsheet for marketing or run an event, and it seems so trivial when you're considering what you're actually trying to do.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: At home with your little human.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I do love it.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So is that taking away from my like But do you not think that if we were all just given well, this is what I think.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: If we were all just given two to three years, depending on what you want, to be with your children, and there was no pressure to go back until that point, and then you got to go back to your job and do your job and do it in whatever capacity you want.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to go back full-time, go full-time, if you want to go part-time, great.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: If there was that flexibility and acceptance there of what having a young family entails, wouldn't that be winning and being able to do it all?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're then there at that crucial point in your baby's life where it's that zero to three, which the science says is the most important thing for building mental health, lifelong mental health, building stable relationships with people.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And at the moment, the current narrative is women need to get back to work.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need more women in the workforce.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but we're doing the fucking work at home.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is the most important work for our society is building healthy humans, and you're taking that away from us.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's also wild, I think, because generations before us have worked so hard to allow us to be in the workforce and allow us, you know, to be part of society which like frankly is mind-boggling on its own.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then you kind of get here and you're like, this is a false promise.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm doing now two jobs, I'm not doing anything else.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel very fortunate I have a wonderful partner, and you know, we're very good at splitting things and like talking about what's important and what's not important in the home, and like supporting each other, get things done, and that kind of thing.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, as a family, like the narrative should be okay.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, like between the two of you, even though you could both work three days a week, but you can't like when society's so expensive too.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's financial, financial pressures.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I've always said to Scott, I'm like, if I was a millionaire, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'm like, you probably wouldn't work, I probably wouldn't work for the next couple of years, we might part-time.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, would definitely have a chef because I hate cooking.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do it, but I I don't I hate doing it for weeknights.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have to 30 minutes have to have a meal on the table.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's so time pressure, I've got to take the dog to the dog park, we've got Jack ready for bed, there's just not enough time.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing I'd have was it would be a cleaner.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you know I'd I had a chef and a cleaner.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd live in the same house.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need like a luxury mansion, I don't care.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: But just someone to do the dinner prep.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like do the food shopping at the cleaner, because they're amazing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just really.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I don't need, you know, handbags and things.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just need food on the table.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And to be with your child.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: To hang out, yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, I've been grateful enough where I've chosen to be home with my girls full time.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: I decided not to go back to work.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I originally had my eldest, Isla, I thought I was gonna go back after 12 months for sure, because I also got 12 months of paid leave working in the federal government.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just because that's what people did.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what all the women I had worked with had done.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: You take your leave, you come back.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to that point and I was like, no fucking way am I leaving my baby.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was this just this strong tie to her that I I could not, I could not.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of makes me cry thinking about it, but it's like I could not let someone else care for her.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Someone that isn't a family, like a known family member or friend.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: But a stranger that I didn't know, like just felt so wrong to me.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we toil we toiled with the idea when I was pregnant again, and Isla was probably around like one and a half, and I was like, maybe we should put her in.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was getting really exhausted being pregnant and being with her because toddlers are amazing, but they're also really active.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just we went down to the childcare and we looked around, and every time I we actually went to look at a few, and every time I left just bawling my eyes out, and I was like, I can't do this.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Casper was so beautiful, he just like probably like the third one.
• 48:54
  unknown: Sorry.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, please.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I get it.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: From the lady who just held my hand and he looked at me and he said He said, Carly, something really beautiful's going on inside you.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to listen to that.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we will make it work.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna make it work.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have to do this ever again.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like the relief in my body that he could see what I was feeling was like oh, it was like night and day.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just was like, oh, like finally I I feel like I have a ticket out of this thing that I feel like I'm meant to be doing.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was like one of the best gifts he's ever given me of just uh really seeing me and supporting me and thinking of our family as a whole unit and thinking about what's really best for us.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: I 100% get that.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: I still find childcare drop-off hard.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I a hundred percent understand your feelings.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: I am a really sensitive person, by the way.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know most people are able to move through it, but yeah, I I just feel like I feel it so intensely clearly.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it also depends on your baby.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like some babies are solidly independent and just happy to go.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if my baby was like that, I can tell her be like, see you later, mate.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: My baby is not like that.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: My baby is a sensitive little soul, but we've been really fortunate in that he's bonded with one of the workers, like really bonded, and he tries to kiss her.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Jack.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of kiss.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be sh honest, I did cry when I found that out too, because I was like, but she's not even our family, like he's loving someone else.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like baby's loving someone else.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think any emotions roll.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just you know, it's where you're at, and every situation's different, every child's different, and you know, they are just the cutest, funniest little beings that have their own little worlds and interests.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you think I thought the babies wouldn't have a personality, but my god, they're so different.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're all so different.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like some are so simple.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Having siblings really highlights it as well.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because you think you think, oh, most kids must do this thing, and then you're like, okay, that's totally their little personality.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's their vibe, they're making it happen.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally well.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's amazing that you made that decision and you chose your heart and how you're feeling, and you followed that.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's hard to do, especially in this day and age with all the external pressures.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that I've learned becoming a mummy is I've stopped people pleasing as much.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it doesn't serve Jack, if it doesn't serve our family, then I'm sorry.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's just it's not on my agenda right now.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good for you.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that's actually tricky about this decision that I've made not to put my kids in care and ghost that I'm like constantly dealing with is the guilt about what we were talking about before with women being allowed in the workplace now and how hard my mother and grandmother worked and like their sacrifices and all the things they couldn't do because they just wanted to be able to go to work in a normal workplace, and now I'm like opting out of that in a sense, but I am planning to go back to work, I'm just not doing it until I'm ready.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also about looking at work in different ways, right?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not opting out of work, you're opting out.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fucking working.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've never worked so hard in my life.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just focusing your energy and your work right now.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you are the one that said to me, you can have it all but not all at once.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard it a f a few times now, it's so true.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't do it all at once.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought I could.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: I d I just don't want to.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to spend time with my kid, I don't want to be at work five days a week.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't want to be there.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I find three and a half hard.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: I might end up going back to three.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: We've had conversations around it.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've decided to give it a good three months of being back at work to kind of navigate that.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's hard to make decisions, right?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: You make these decisions also sometimes not knowing.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, your pathway back to work is just gonna be different.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: The way you look at work is different.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way I look at work now has really changed.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not my primary focus anymore.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do seven till seven constantly, just not even think about it.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was obsessed, I'm a workaholic.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like five to five, and I'm like, right, I'm gonna log off in five minutes.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Have I done everything I need to do for the day?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm out.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's only so much time, and time is so invaluable.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids are only young once.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: One time.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're so true.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's precious, and it flies.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Isla is almost three now.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is it.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna start having memories now, and she's gonna be in kindy next year, and I'm not gonna be spending every day with her anymore, and it's like it's all happened so quick, and in two more years after that, she'll be in school, and that'll be it.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: My nieces and nephews have started going to school and it's my blown my mind.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, but you were just babies and I was cuddling you, or toddlers and having sleepovers, or like I just it boggles the mind.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely boggles.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: This time is precious, and you should you should do what your heart says.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's important.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And only do it, you only get it once.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's true.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Don't blow it.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is a great time to finish with our quick fire questions.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, let's roll.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if there were unlimited resources and finances available, how would you rewrite your postpartum period and what would it look like?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, definitely would have someone doing the food because and I'd have a cleaner.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because Jack was sick, we didn't have a lot of visitors, but I would probably spend more time around my friends and family because I'd be able to.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that's just more circumstantial rather than money, if you know what I mean.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the same.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Company.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was also probably I was so exhausted that I kind of didn't feel up for company, but whenever we had company, it made me feel better.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, if I was to go back and rewrite it, I would push myself to be around the people I love more.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the good kind of people.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: The top-up.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: People in your life that need that come over and you need to do things for them.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: The people that will come over and literally care for you and get a blanket for you and make you a cup of tea and and put your washing on and vacuum your house.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: The fill your glass, not the detract from your glass, kinda.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Precisely.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: But see, if you're really rich and you have someone doing all the food, they can come over because you don't have to think about it.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: They've gone shopping for you.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, number two, what is one joy that you get out of motherhood that was unexpected?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: When he gets a new skill, I've never felt so proud.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I've done something.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've done nothing.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: But when he says a new word, I'm like when he stands up.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: I celebrate him so much when he stands up that he started clapping when he stands up.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, self-love.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that's so beautiful.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just, yeah.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I just didn't expect not that I didn't expect to love him, I just didn't expect that I would feel overwhelmed by love.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think what's interesting is oh my god, my mum and dad felt this way about me once blown.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: The love, the amount of love is just wild.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's all-encompassing.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: All encompassing.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's so nice.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, last one.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's one thing you would tell a new mum about to go through their metrescence or their postpartum?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's a phase.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: If it's hard, it will pass.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Good things come to those who wait.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a little bit of patience goes a really long way.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think sometimes you're so caught up in you're so exhausted, and you have a poor little baba who's like might be screaming your house down.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I found myself get frustrated, and then I've sat there and thought, wait a second, he's not screaming for no reason.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like just have a moment of patience and kindness, and it's really hard to do when you're really exhausted sometimes.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: And one other thing, sorry, I know I'm only meant to have one, I've said like three, but is it's okay to put your baby down and walk away and take a breath and gather yourself if you're finding it really hard.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like just take you can take a minute, it's okay.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your baby will be okay.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: You need to, yeah, there's a saying, it's like, God, I'm totally gonna mash this, but it's like you need to calm your nervous system so that the baby can use your calm to calm its nervous system.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got to be a Zen Buddha, but like caffeinated, sleep-deprived Zen Buddha.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard, but taking a minute to take a deep breath honestly sounds silly, but it does wonders.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Especially in the car as well.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to look at them.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you just what is it?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Count to four, square breathing, count to four, hold in five, out seven, out six or seven or whatever it is.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: That actually breath is saved.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the car.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, that's one thing I didn't expect.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: The car.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's another episode in itself.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's another episode.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Both both babies have just, yeah.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we got in the car with Odie until she was about eight months.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: We just didn't just didn't go anywhere.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: We just stayed in Kensington.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or we actually caught public transport, so we're lucky enough that we have three train lines near us.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it was actually quite easy to get around.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel for people that don't have that connectivity on public transport and their baby hates the car, and they need to be in the car to do life things, like if you're in a regional town, say, and you need to go and get your groceries and go to doctor's appointments, and there's no other way except being in a car with a screaming baby.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is a that is a whole nother episode.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: The number of times I've pulled over and cried and just been on the side of the road crying.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Also, crying in public's fine.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's also for a new mum.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing to be ashamed of.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: We all Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you become a mum, you really you you feel for your other mothers that you walk past and you check on each other.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: You really give them a little smile, tell them they're doing an amazing job, especially if their kid is chucking a fit.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: I like to make a joke when they're chucking a fit.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, to the kid.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, did you have you lost something?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just think they're funny.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really horrible when there's people though that give mums those horrible looks when their kids having a tantrum.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, you don't want to be wrangling a two-year-old screamy.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: No one does.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: The mother doesn't even want to be doing it, but it's her job.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: So she's there, she's trying to keep her peace, and you're glaring at her.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not helping.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not helping.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you have something to offer, step away in the other direction.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do not care.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: I got told off by an old man in Woolies, like grey hair old man, because I got a pack of snacks off the shelf, opened them.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to pay for I I did pay for them.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I opened them before we had got to the register to give them to my children who were in the trolley with me for a like half an hour shop, which is a long time for children, just so they would be a little bit happy at the end of the shop, and they weren't screaming in front of everyone else.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he came up to me and said he was like, You're spoiling them.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're just gonna be little rats, and walked off.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I just would have been like.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had to keep my cool in front of my girls, but the rage, the rage.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, see, I would have just been like, well, I just hope they don't turn out like keeps so.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank your opinion's not welcome here.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I was that quick-witted, but I am not.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think this is a beautiful note to finish on.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing your story.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Told a lot, you were very vulnerable, and I think that it's gonna be a gift for other mothers out there.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: So.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Bridget.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Mothering.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a mother yourself, I hope it provided comfort that you are not alone in your journey.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you're about to be a mother or have a new mother in your life, I hope it provided some understanding of the complex emotions and experiences women go through during this life-changing transition.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just a one-woman show, so I would love, love, love, love, love to hear what you thought.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribing is the greatest way you can help this podcast reach other mothers who need it.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you rate and leave a comment on here, I will be eternally grateful to you.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Follow the Instagram page, which is at Bymothering, B-Y Mothering.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of opinions on motherhood and share all sorts of things mother-related on there.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to be a guest on the podcast, I really encourage you to reach out to me.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is a section on my website where you can submit, and I'll leave a link for it in the show notes.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can find all the relevant links and information mentioned in this podcast below in the show notes as well.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have a beautiful day, and I will see you next time.