Latest / The Permission Slip / S1 | E13 Jessica Brown - Author, Clinical Nutritionist, Compassion Teacher
Transcript
- S1 • E13 Jessica Brown === Matt Kosterman: Hi. Welcome back to the Permission Slip. I'm Matt Kosterman and I'm here today with Jessica Brown, who's joining me from beautiful Marin, Jessica is a clinical nutritionist, an author of two books now, is that right? Jessica: Two books. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: A Compassion Educator a Noetic Field practitioner. So welcome Jessica: Hi. Matt Kosterman: here. Jessica: Thanks for having me, Matt. Good to see you. Matt Kosterman: to see you. So a little history, Jessica and I go back all the way to Clearwater, Florida, where she was a, a, a little freshman friend of my sister who was a freshman in high school, uh, and she and her twin sister. We were friends with Abby, my sister, and, uh, and I got back in touch, um, gosh, maybe five or six years ago. Matt Kosterman: During my journey, my sister recommended that I reach out to her, and to see if she could help me, and she did, um, in a number of ways. So, um, I wanted to have her on the show to expose others to the beautiful work that she does uh. And get a, get a, an even deeper dive. 'cause she's, uh, we haven't been in touch a ton recently and I know she's done a lot since we've been together. So, again, thanks for being here, Jessica. Jessica: Hi Matt. Thanks for having me. Yes, old friends Matt Kosterman: Old friends. Um, Jessica: new stuff. Matt Kosterman: yeah. Not that old though. Not that old. So, um. Yeah, just give us a little bit of your background, uh, and how you, how you know, kind of how you grew up. I, I like to give people a little bit of a, a grounding and a little bit of a, um, I think I, I used to have this sense that anybody who was in a role of, of helping others, let's say, or, uh, you know, uh, uh, this kind of role, I, I had this sense that, oh. They had like a perfect life and they, you know, like doctors and therapists and, and nutritionists and body workers and oh, you know, they just, they went, you know, they had this perfect life and everything was, was roses. And, um, and I find that, uh, that's not usually the case, uh, the older that I get. So, Jessica: not the case. Matt Kosterman: what got you on this path of, of doing all these beautiful things for people? Jessica: I think it was a series of events, um, growing up. You know, growing up in Florida is its own unique path and, um. I was a parent. Uh, I'm an identical twin, so I have a twin and that is its own wonderful path, um, that, you know, we have stayed in close touch and she's very close. We're very close, but grew up in Florida, um, was the product of divorced parents. Jessica: my mother chose not to raise us. You know, they each have their own story about why she didn't. I just don't think she was really capable of it. and so that created the first heartbreak in my life was feeling that I wasn't good enough for my mom to want to parent. and my parents were very different. Jessica: My father was, um. Physically abusive. You know, he beat us, um, verbally abusive. and then my mother just sort of, just not capable of a lot, um, even though she had jobs and relationships. and so I sort of had parents on different ends of the spectrum and I did not really know where I. Should have landed, um, because there was a lot of push and pull. Jessica: But the main thing was, is as confused as I was when I, they got divorced when I was six, was I felt like I was a throwaway child. You know, that, uh, started the bit deep seated beliefs that have shaped my professional path, um, because of my own personal struggle, which was I'm not lovable. Something is wrong with me. Jessica: I was made wrong. Everybody else was made right, and I have to do a lot to. Convince people that nothing was really broken inside of me. And I think that was the big thing was um, I quickly figured out that if I can just convince people I'm not broken, then I'll be okay. And so that, you know, fast forward to my first marriage. Jessica: That was the main reason why I feel like we got married was I decided, I found a person who could convince me I was lovable. And of course that never works because the universe is incredibly intelligent and always gives us what we need. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: and so there were, you know, so that was my first marriage and lots of things along the way. Jessica: you know, found my spiritual teacher a. Through my own struggle. and, you know, uh, had my spiritual journey and my personal journey. And then also I would say sort of like my clinical practice and the things that I do clinical as a clinical nutritionist, you know, and sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. Jessica: So in some ways I wear different hats. I do clinical nutrition. I help people with stool tests. I help them with supplements. And then there's the other piece, which is the work that I feel like, um, is really valuable. Not everybody wants to do it, which is the inner work. So yeah, we can probably dissect that a little bit more as we go along in our conversation. Matt Kosterman: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. That, that it resonates a lot. I had, uh, similar parental issues, although not quite to the extreme, but very different personalities, um, and very young parents. I think yours were very young as well when they had you or no. Jessica: Yes. My mom was 23, didn't know she was having twins, and my father was 25. Matt Kosterman: Mine were 20, just, just to turn 22. So I, I, I think back to when I was 22, and the fact that they even managed to raise three humans is sort of a, a miracle, right? Jessica: True. Matt Kosterman: Uh, Jessica: Very true, Matt Kosterman: although there are, there are a lot of forces helping the way. You find Jessica: yes. And it was a different world back then too. You know, 22 year olds aren't maybe in the position that our parents were when they were 22. They're just. Aren't thrown into the world, uh, the way a lot of, uh, young people were that are, that are our parents' age. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: So, Matt Kosterman: And my parents were both a product of World War II veterans, one, you know, with, you know, serious combat, um, in Pacific for four years, and then never, never spoke of it for the rest of his life, pretty much. Um. Jessica: wow. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, literally was Jessica: Can you imagine? Matt Kosterman: yeah, he was on Tinian. He was on the island where they launched the Enola Gay from, um, as a Marine doing hand-to-hand combat with the Japanese. And, uh, yeah, and he, he came home for leave in San Francisco Harbor. anchor. There wasn't a port available, a birth available, so they all jumped off the boat, swam to shore. They were so happy to be in America. went back to Wisconsin to visit my grandmother, who he, who wasn't my grandmother yet, wasn't even his wife, went to visit her. And, um. They, unbeknownst to him the plans, they dropped the bombs, the, the war was over and he never went back and he never spoke of it again. Got married and raised three kids. Um, Jessica: Wow. Matt Kosterman: so yeah, a, a very different world. And yet we're in this world today with all kinds of. Transformation and healing available to us. Matt Kosterman: So, which I'm, I'm grateful. And, and those things I, I feel now have shaped, you know, the, the trials and tribulations obviously shape us. So how, so you, you went to school, you went to uf, to Gainesville. Did you go to Florida? Is that Jessica: I went to school in Illinois. Matt Kosterman: Oh, you Jessica: Yeah, Eastern Illinois. Matt Kosterman: that's Jessica: Um. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica: I loved Florida so much that I left the day after I graduated high school, Matt Kosterman: Did your sister leave Jessica: so I, she, she left too. She went to University of Alabama Matt Kosterman: Alabama. Jessica: year and then went to Ohio State. Matt Kosterman: Okay, so you went to Eastern, so yeah, not far away from me. Jessica: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: did get set on the, on the clinical path then? Where you, did you get interested in nutrition right away? Jessica: I became, I got a degree in environmental biology and I became interested in nutrition. Just sort of like I was the girl that, um, all my friends came to when they had a urinary tract infection and, you know, just, uh, stomach aches, you know, I was just sort of always interested in, um, natural medicine, homeopathy. Jessica: And then when I graduated, um, decided to go to Best Year. I was at Best Year for a year in Seattle. and then actually had sort of like a medical crisis. and so I dropped out of Basier and then moved to Chicago. Matt Kosterman: Got it. Okay. Jessica: Yeah, I don't think we ever talked about what my medical crisis is. I've never really talked about it publicly. Jessica: because it, it sort of shaped a lot of how, uh. It, it really forced me to, uh, begin the journey of looking at my longstanding anxiety and belief system that was really holding back the connection with me, trusting myself, essentially Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Always looking for that, that external validation. Jessica: always, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: anymore, but that Matt Kosterman: in the past. Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. so you ended up in Chicago and then that, and then, then you finished your, your degree work, uh, here. Jessica: Yeah, I became a clinical nutritionist, um, through the International and American Association of Clinical nutritionists and just started working with different doctors in Chicago, um, and health clinics practicing nutrition. Um. And then moved to Nevada City, California, um, when I was 28. 28 I think. and then met my husband, who's now my ex-husband, uh, and, uh, you know, settled down and, and built a family and a life there. Matt Kosterman: Cool. So you had, you had children with him? Jessica: I did, I had one daughter, my daughter May, Matt Kosterman: Okay, Jessica: may, um, with him, and then we ended up getting divorced after 10 years, moved to the Bay Area, and now I'm married to my current husband, Derek, and he has three girls and I have one. So we're a nice, big blended family now. Matt Kosterman: Beautiful. So, um, so this, so the catalyst for healing yourself was this medical crisis, and that's what, so you don't have to describe the crisis, but did you, try the medical community? Like, did, was it, was it a, a, a doctor thing and then you realized it wasn't a doctor thing? Is it Jessica: it's a funny story. Uh, my friend and I had gone back to Christmas break and, uh, you know, I was in grad school, so I. You know, had transitioned from my college life. But when we went back before Christmas break, you know, um, we partied, um, and I, and uh, and smoked pot. And so I remember like I was in the car and super hungover, you know, had smoked pot the night before and my friend was talking to me, um, she was driving me to my mom's house in St. Jessica: Louis. And all of a sudden she just stopped making sense. Like, it was almost like the Peanuts cartoon, you know, she was talking to me and it was like, rah rah. And I was like, oh my God, I can't understand what my friend is saying. What's happening. and what ended up happening was I suffered from depersonalization and derealization, um, from marijuana. Jessica: Uh, which there wasn't, that wasn't even termed back then. Uh, back when I experienced it, I just thought I was having a nervous breakdown. and so I became instantly agoraphobic and like, almost like, uh, being in a constant state of a panic attack, you know, for almost a year. And went home. And my parents, my dad tried to help me as much as he could, um, but nobody knew what it was. Jessica: and so it was either hide what, how severe it was that was happening to me or go into a mental hospital. So I went back to Seattle to grad school, um, you know, flew on a plane, got back home, um, couldn't drive, uh, couldn't go out in public, you know, I don't like that. Ended up needing to drop outta school. Jessica: but I remember so clearly. That was when I got my first energy healer. Who actually understood what was happening to me. Nobody could put it in the context. I went to numerous doctors and they said, nothing is wrong with you. They ran blood tests. You know, psychiatrists just wanna drug you up, you know, and I didn't want that. Jessica: I wanted to understand what was happening. I thought I was having a kundalini awakening. Because when I went to the bookstore, that was the only thing that could describe a lot of the symptoms that I was having. but when I went back to Seattle, I remember I was so desperate, Matt, that I called in a talk radio show that had a psychic, and the psychic was talking and I thought. Jessica: I listened to her talk and I thought, oh my God, the psychic is gonna be able to tell me what is happening to me because nobody else can tell me. And so I ended up calling her and leaving her a message on her private. You know, answering machine and she called me back and she left. I will never forget, she left me a message and she just said, I so appreciate you telling me what's wrong with you. Jessica: you know, and I can just tell by listening to your voice that. What you have isn't serious enough for what I do. so I can, I can't help you. I was really relieved to hear that, you know, like my world wasn't falling apart. 'cause the psychic said it wasn't. And she said, I don't work with people who are having your situation, but I have somebody who can. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: her name is Lynn. And so I called Lynn up the next day and I went to go see her. And she described to me what she does is people transitioning, um, who are dying. So she would, uh, work in hospices and hospitals, helping people who are crossing over, uh, in the death process. Matt Kosterman: A Jessica: And she said, I know exactly what's happening to you. Jessica: And I can help you. Matt Kosterman: Wow. Jessica: And so she said, you know, you had a crack in your cosmic egg. You can never do drugs again. If you do, you will blow out all your energy centers. And she showed me how to live with the depersonalization and derealization, um, through exercises, visualizations, meditations, and then her doing energy work to sort of repair my aura from the big blowout. Matt Kosterman: How much weed did you smoke? Jessica: Not a lot. Matt Kosterman: a lot. Wow. Regularly though it was regular. Like daily? Jessica: No, I mean, I did it, uh, you know, in college, you know, recreationally. but no, it was just a, a, a moment on my path, uh, that really defined what I was able to do and not do. Matt Kosterman: sure. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Wow. So that, and, and how long did that process take to kind of get to put, put the egg back together? To put Jessica: Years. Matt Kosterman: Humpty together again? Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yours. Jessica: Anybody who's experienced depersonalization or derealization understands that any moment that they have something shocking or, uh, really anxiety provoking, it, it, it, it carries them right to the edge of going back into it. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: and so I, um, just have developed skills over time to work with it, and now I have a very deep understanding, lots of compassion for other people who have had those kinds of experiences. Matt Kosterman: I imagine. And so there wa, Kundalini was not involved according to the, uh, Lynn. Did she wa was there a Kundalini element to it? Jessica: I can't even remember now. Like at this point, the, you know, those kinds of shimmery experiences don't even matter to me anymore. Like, Matt Kosterman: Yep. Jessica: even care if I actually had a Kundalini awakening. I just wanted to be able to live in a body Matt Kosterman: yeah, Jessica: walk around. Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah, for sure. Jessica: Um. But I did start to realize through that process that as a child, I would spontaneously leave my body and I would get visual perception changes. Jessica: And I also didn't understand what that meant and the context of the depersonalization and derealization. And so I'd be walking down the street and all of a sudden I would go out of my body and I would have extreme visual changes. and so I didn't know how to live in a body again and have those. Jessica: Changes happen. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: and so over the years, I've slowly built up ways to work with it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Amazing. Amazing. and so through your clinical, through the nutrition work and the work with the medium, with Lynn, so tell us then, so then how did this lead into the, the, the noetic path? The, the, um, the, the compassion, the compassion path. Jessica: when I was living in Nevada City, uh, married with a baby, um, my sister, uh, who lived in San Francisco, um, started working with a person who does, did energy work. And I had such a great experience working with somebody who did energy work to help me put myself back together again. that. My sister started seeing this woman doing energy work and so I started to see her doing energy work and you know, either in person or distance, and I finally just said. Jessica: How did you learn this? Like how do I wanna do this too? And she said, I work with a teacher, his name is Dr. Robert Waterman and he started a psychology school in Santa Fe. but he works, uh, spiritually as well with a lot of the students from the psychology school. And so I reached out and. My sister and I both reached out and he does, did, does mystery schools. Jessica: and so I signed up having never met him before, um, and did mystery school with him and, um, have been a student of his now for over 20 years. Matt Kosterman: Amazing. So he's still teaching? Jessica: He's still teaching. He does not teach, um, at the university level anymore. Uh, maybe he does, maybe he teaches a class or two. but in addition to starting, uh, the Southwestern School in Santa Fe, um, uh. Jessica: He also teaches people how to become NOIC field practitioners. and so I did his mystery school, have done all of his trainings multiple times, just attend as many, uh, things that he does as much as possible because it's helped my professional career so much. and then also did the noetic field practitioner training program, which took a few years. Matt Kosterman: So tell us, because I, I mean, I know a bit of, I was in a noic, a bit of a NOIC program for a, for a minute. But tell, tell us about what is a NOIC field practitioner. Jessica: So the basis of noetic field therapy is that, um, everything that sort of ails us is within arm's reach. and that when we either have hard things happen to us or we develop belief systems to stay safe, um, those things, uh, those beliefs create frequencies that sit in our OR field and that we have different layers of our ORIC field and the, uh, the field, the actual practice of balancing is. Jessica: Coming together, um, in a divine way with the person that I'm working with and helping them understand what it is that they believe that's sitting in their ORIC field that is, uh, blocking them for, from something that is important. For them and their life, an understanding, a deeper connection, um, and that all of these things are here to help us remember our wholeness or our holiness. Jessica: and so it is, uh, essentially helping people understand what it is that they believe, so that then they can forgive themself for believing it. and, uh, clear the frequencies that are sitting in their oric field Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: through the power of their own heart. Matt Kosterman: own heart. Jessica: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: And so you're, this is done through compassionate inquiry? Uh, Jessica: Yes. Compassionate inquiry. Yes. Matt Kosterman: So Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: can, can, and how would it, how does that, uh, how do you differentiate that from, from therapy? Uh, for the, for the lay Jessica: Yeah. Some therapists work in the heart-centered space. but a lot of therapy is built upon what the mind beliefs and working on the mind. This is working on what the heart believes The essence of a lot of this is, is that, uh, all of us go through experiences where something really challenging or difficult happens to us. Jessica: And when a challenging experience happens to us, we, uh, turn away from our own loving as a resource. Oh, my father beat me. I must not be lovable. And see, so the, what is the truth? The truth is, is your dad did beat you. What is it true though, that you're not lovable? No, that's not true. But in order for us to make sense of tragedies that go on in our life, uh, we take hard things and we decide things about our lovability. Jessica: And when we do that, that creates a frequency that sits out in our ORIC field. because it is decided as from, from a heart space, then the heart is the only thing that can. Challenge it, clear it, release it to bring us back into our holiness or our wholeness. That is not the mind that does that, although the mind is incredibly important to the process. Jessica: because the mind backs up with the heart beliefs. And so this is where I'd say what I do is really the root cause of a lot of things that, uh, mental challenges. That isn't to say that I don't. Really appreciate therapy and really appreciate therapists because I definitely do. And there's a place for all of this for everybody. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: it's just a little bit more of a different work that comes a little bit more into our holiness and our divinity. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Because ultimately we are, we ultimately, we are all love, which Jessica: Ultimately, we are, yeah. Matt Kosterman: we are lovable if we are love. Jessica: So, uh, a lot of times when we have a lot of traumas, we forget that. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: we have one layer forgetting it, oh, my father beat me. I must not be lovable. That's one layer of forgetting our, that we're love or forgetting our holiness. And then we have another one. Oh, my husband cheated on me and left me. I really must not be lovable. Jessica: And so we have all these things sort of stacked up against us. Matt Kosterman: And then they reinforce one another and call, call more experiences of the same. I mean 'cause Jessica: Until we remember. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, who we are. Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: I mean, 'cause I think you see very often, um, you know, people who were abused by their parents who didn't think they were lovable. Then they go find somebody. Who reinforces that they're not lovable. know, you see it, I, I've seen it in people whose, um, you know, their father cheated on their mother repeatedly. And so then they marry somebody who is very safe. But, you know, they'll never leave them, they'll never cheat on them. Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: maybe Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: bunch of other things that are, that, that come with that, that reinforce the, the belief system. how do you, so go ahead. Jessica: yeah, and I actually thank my ex-husband for this now because, um, he had the courage. To break the marriage up and I didn't, I would've stayed in that safe place forever. Uh, and he, I owe, um, a lot of thanks to him for doing it. It was a very uncomfortable process we had to go through, but for me, the crystallization was so heavy that I probably would've stayed there doing that because I didn't think I was really worth anything else. Jessica: But he had the courage to kind of step out and, uh, and break up that crystallization, that helped prompt break up the crystallization that was inside of me, that really helped me understand this entire process that we're talking about here today. Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah. Beautiful. how, um, so what is, so the, the, the process of somebody engaging with you, what, what does it, what does it look like? Is it, is it the therapist couch? Are you talking, are you doing, are you actually doing energy work? Are you, um, what, what does it look like, uh, for, for somebody who Jessica: If I'm doing it in person, um, they're on a table and I use a pendulum. Uh, and if they're not in person, then it's conversation conversational. and a lot of times it's people just telling their story, you know? Tell me about a time that you felt afraid alone or abandoned. because people know. Where their own blocks are, even if they're unconscious of them. Jessica: and so we just start a conversation and most people come to me because they have something specific they wanna work on. Uh, and I've been doing this for a while, and so I, um, am pretty good at helping people come to understand what it is that they believe just by, uh, a very warm, loving, compassionate inquiry, you know, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: and then helping people see. Jessica: How that belief is sitting in their life and then believing, helping them believe that the power of their own heart can release the belief. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: And sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes it's multi-layered. Sometimes it's like complex systems. Uh, sometimes, you know, it's like, uh, big topics like, oh, I can't ever feel fulfilled in my career. Sometimes there's big topics that might have many layers to them. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: and so, and sometimes it's easy to clear it. Jessica: Sometimes it takes a little bit longer. Matt Kosterman: And so the, the stories I think you described earlier, because I, I'm familiar with, you know, the idea. Primarily through the landmark curriculum that I went through. But you know, we, there, there's, there's a thing happened, right? Something happened us. 'cause things are always happening to us and then we Jessica: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: about what happened. Uh, Jessica: Yes. Matt Kosterman: and, and so the differentiation here, so the story exists mentally and in the heart space and in the, in the or field, essentially the energy of that story is that, how could you describe it as, as such, the energy of the story? Is, clogging up the ORIC field? Jessica: That's a good way to look at it. Yes. a lot of times these things are conscious. So for instance, you know, we go through something like maybe we're in a store that gets robbed. Right? So that's really traumatic. And when we're, I'm just making that up and we're in a store and the store gets robbed and we think to ourself, oh my gosh, I'm not, I'm not safe. Jessica: You know, I'm a person who isn't safe. That's conscious. When we don't do anything with it and we don't clear up that misconception, then it goes into the unconscious and then it becomes the template or what I call like the internal law of our life until we go and change it. The power of the heart is so strong. Jessica: It doesn't matter if it's conscious or unconscious, you know, that's where the mind can be really limited. 'cause sometimes we can't remember or get in touch with things that are unconscious. But I have found that the power of the heart guides us to exactly where we need to be, to, um, tap into where the belief is held in the unconscious, sitting in the ORC field. Matt Kosterman: Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Beautiful. So, yeah. 'cause the, the heart is the ultimate connection to the divine. I mean, it's the, Jessica: Yes. It's the primary connection, correct? Yeah. Matt Kosterman: head, the mind is as well, but the heart is this the, that's where everything comes in to, Jessica: Yes, and the physical body is really dense and the mental body is not as dense as the physical, but you know, the heart connection or the soul connection, you know, is, uh, faster than the speed of light. So when we look at, you know, where, where do we wanna hone into those places? Matt Kosterman: And the field. Yeah. And, and, and I, the, the, the heart field extends for, what is it, eight or 10 or 12 feet? The, the, the electrical field generated by the heart beyond the body that, Jessica: I know HeartMath sort of, uh, says it like that. I would say as far as your arms can reach, Matt Kosterman: Okay. As far as your arms is, is the, is the ORIC field. Jessica: yes. Matt Kosterman: And this is, uh, al also the ener, the, the energetic field or separate from the energetic field, or emo, I'm sorry. There's the, there's the physical body, the emotional body, the ORIC body and the energy body, if I'm not mistaken and Jessica: yes. In the, in the way that, um, I was taught it's, you know, there's emotional, causal, uh, mental astral, soul, you know, and so there's different levels and all of those different levels have a specific kind of curriculum and they can all hold, uh, the densities of the belief systems as well. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Yeah, and I've Jessica: And actually, you know, and one of the big ones that I see too are drugs. Jessica: And so, um, you know, when we have, uh, when I work with people, for instance, who are chronic marijuana smokers or do any drugs chronically, you know, that can also sit in the ORIC field as well and cause, um, blockages. Matt Kosterman: Okay. And are you, uh, are you, so through the pendulum and you're using the pendulum to, to read the chakras in, in the field essentially? Jessica: Yes. Matt Kosterman: then are, are you Jessica: Sorry, I didn't say that. Correct. Good intuition. Yes. Matt Kosterman: I've worked Jessica: So I put, put the pendulum over the different energy centers on the body Matt Kosterman: Right. Jessica: and it is really helpful to see if it cleared when somebody's working on something that's in their curriculum. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: a belief system. Matt Kosterman: and so a session, what does a session looks like there? You, you might do multiples per week, or it's weekly, or they, they're, they're an hour. What, how does that, what does it look like? Jessica: So I do work for an hour and I do recommend that people do no more than one session a week, uh, to let everything sort of settle in. and then some people need more time and more work and more help. They just love the connection. They like talking, you know, it's, it's a real personal thing. You know, um, I, I have some people who talk to me weekly, some people that talk to me once every six months. Jessica: It just really depends on the person and what they're up for. Matt Kosterman: Sure. is there, and then do you give them homework? Jessica: Usually. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Yeah. I mean, Jessica: Usually, yes. Matt Kosterman: to do. Yeah. Um. Jessica: Even if it's just to. nurture themselves, Matt Kosterman: Sure. Jessica: so I have, um, integrated in the noetic work. a lot of the self-compassion and the re-parenting that I do, that actually here I talk about in this, I'll put my book up here Matt Kosterman: say, Jessica: beyond, beyond the shot that, Matt Kosterman: books. Yeah. Beyond the Shot. Jessica: which is a lot of the work, sorry, Matt Kosterman: So Jessica: we're gonna have to. Jessica: Edit that out. Matt Kosterman: no problem. Jessica: Um, Matt Kosterman: the but your fir your first book was wit was, was called what? Jessica: my first book was called The Loving Diet, Matt Kosterman: Diet. Jessica: and then, and then this one Beyond the Shot is an evolution of what I started in the Loving Diet. And it really works with, um, a compassionate inquiry. It's not noetic field balancing, um, but it is a compassionate inquiry using. Teaching the skills of self-compassion to understand what it is that you believe and why. Jessica: And then the power of reparenting yourself to help, um, engage the heart and to help to dissolve the belief systems that are driving people's relationship with food Matt Kosterman: I Jessica: that are keeping them safe. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, I wanted to back up. So, and, and just elaborate. So the beyond the shot, the shot being, uh, the, the, uh, GLP is the Correct Yeah. Jessica: Correct. It's a, Matt Kosterman: confuse them with Jessica: it's a book. Matt Kosterman: but the. Jessica: it is for people who are on, uh, GLP one medications like Ozempic and Wegovy and Tirzepatide, and it is to, uh, help them take a deeper step into their relationship with food, uh, to. Help them understand, uh, and get in touch with who I, I call it the inner eater. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: And the inner eater has had experiences in life that are, tend to be really challenging, um, that come along with issues around weight and eating. Jessica: So, for instance, a lot of people are maybe bullied when they're younger and being bullied might cause them to use food. They turn to food for comfort. and they never quite know or understand what the original belief system was that happened, for instance, when they were bullied. That is driving their real relationship with food themselves and life. Matt Kosterman: Sure. Jessica: And so it's a how to book that takes people through when people are on GLP one medications. Many times I hear that they are thinking less about food, that they are getting a break from all the food noise for the first time in their life. They're not thinking about food around the clock. They feel calmer, their brains feel clearer, and I tell my clients it's a perfect opportunity. Jessica: Uh, to look at all of start unpacking all of the things that have happened to them up until the point of getting that relief. And so, you know, it's like one of those things where the hardest time to work on depression might be when you are in a depressive. Episode the hardest time to work on your anxieties when you're having a panic attack. Jessica: And so the same thing goes true for GLP one medications that while so many people are feeling relief, freedom, um, expansion. And so that is the perfect time to start unpacking some of the deeper things that led their hard relationship with food. Matt Kosterman: Not, not right after you've been J the the three Haagen, the three points of Haagen-Dazs is not usually a good time to work on that stuff. Jessica: I mean, it could be, but I find that for most it's not. Matt Kosterman: yeah, but that's, that's beautiful. I love that because, um, you know, it's, it's my belief that at our core, bodies know how to heal themselves. And, and in line with what you're saying, there are these, there. things that get stuck in our ORIC field that are preventing that the natural healing intelligence from doing what it needs to do, with regard to food. Matt Kosterman: I mean, food sugar has been a constant. uh, uh. Uh, nemesis of mine. And, and so, and I can, I can, you know, I, I've dove deep in with medicines, with psychedelics, with therapy, with, you know, with, with, uh, sacred, you know, sexuality, all the things. it's still, there's still that hook there. There's still that, that little, that, that little, little voice. Matt Kosterman: So, um, Jessica: Well, how do you feel about the voice Matt Kosterman: um, how do I feel about the voice? Um. Even know if it's, is it a voice? It's a voice, I mean, what Jessica: or the part of you that loves sugar? Matt Kosterman: yeah. It's not a, it's, I guess it's not a voice as much as it's the, it's that, it's the warm hug, the warm dopamine release hug that I get from sugar. 'cause sugar was, growing up, a substitute for love. Matt Kosterman: It was, you know, we're going on a road trip. 'cause we drove around. We, we moved a lot. We drove around, visit relatives. So you know, here's a Reese's Peanut butter and a pack of lifesaver. Sit in the back and be quiet. Right. It was going to house, well-meaning grandparents' house, but who came down through the lineage of, of having a, a great grandfather as a baker. and so it was food, right? It was, it was Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: cringle. It was cookies. It was brownies. So growing, going to, going to grannies meant. You got brownies. you know, it was watching mom who had a, uh, always had a drawer full of Hershey bars and uh, and, and real coke back in the day in, in bottles. so there's all these reinforcing things around, around that. Matt Kosterman: I mean, I used to, uh, used to, when I was fifth, sixth grade, I would snatch the brownie mix from the kitchen, a measuring cup and put, put hot water in it and mix the powder and make like brownie paste and eat it. In Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: yeah. 'cause it was like, I, you know, I didn't have a lot of physical affection growing up. again, that's not to, you know, to put blame on anybody. It's just the way it was. And so the body craves that stuff. and, and there's a, you know, there's a story around there and there's a, a neural pathway, there's a wiring. you know, it's not the same high that you get when you smoke weed, but, you know, a very, very subtle low level. Feeling of just kind of like, Ooh. Ooh, nice. Jessica: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: and I think that's, I, I would imagine, Matt, that thousands of people really resonate with that. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: And they feel the same way. I have experiences similar to that. I, I certainly remember the first time heartbroken. After my parents divorced, I sat in the closet. I wrote about this in my book, sat in the closet and ate cracker jacks, you know, to get, you know, when you in the cracker jacks, the, the, the prize was at the bottom and I didn't wanna cheat. Jessica: And so I ate box after box and like made myself sick, but I wanted to, not cheat, but I wanted the prize, but then I couldn't understand. Why I felt relief. You know, it was like one of the first times I didn't feel sorrow Matt Kosterman: Okay. Jessica: pain and heartbreak over my parents being divorced. I felt full. Matt Kosterman: You felt Jessica: and so it's interesting 'cause then, you know, we get to look at how we judge these places in our life, you know? Jessica: And so we get to, uh, create a more cooperative relationship with the parts of us. Seek comfort and food rather than judging them. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, and I, and I find that it's, you know, it's a spiral. It's like you feel like it's, you're Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: and forth, but I, I can see how each time that I kind of step away from it, I'm moving, you know, to a higher place a, a better relationship with it. Uh, and, you know, times like this, the holidays are, uh, often can be especially challenging because of all the cues that that exist around, around it. yeah. So really you work with people in this whole gamut of nutritional issues, all the, like you said, all the way from evaluating stool samples and supplement. Uh, recommendations all the way to actual energetic underpinnings of the problems. Jessica: I do. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. That's amazing. Jessica: you know, it's so fascinating because I, I found that. I would say six 65%, 70% of the people that I work with don't wanna do the inner work. And I can really understand that because it's the scariest thing I've ever done. And so a bulk of my practice is the stuff that people feel really comfortable with. Jessica: you know, tell me what test to take. How do I ask my doctor for this? You know, what supplements should I be on? How do I interpret my stool test? What do I, how do I look at my organics acid test? And I do that really well. I love doing it. And then some people want to do a deeper inquiry. Oh, maybe there's something more behind. Jessica: My disordered eating or my autoimmune disease, or my cancer diagnosis, or my menopause symptoms. And so I feel incredibly honored, uh, that I've been well prepared to do both Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica: those who want it and those who don't. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. That's Jessica: I, Matt Kosterman: 'cause there we, we do have a very specialized, siloed world that we live in, e especially when Jessica: we do. Matt Kosterman: to medical and, and mental advice. Everybody's got their, their little lane that they drive in. Jessica: Yes, I do love patient advocacy. It's, uh, something that I just find is really, um, empowering for people when they can really advocate for what they want with their doctors and learn how to have compassionate conversations with their doctors. Matt Kosterman: And Jessica: So, yeah. Matt Kosterman: and themselves Jessica: And themselves. Yes. Because it always starts with ourself first. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. And that's been the, that's been the theme of the show so far, is that there are, there are energetic underpinnings to all of these things that's, they don't, they're, they don't exist in a vacuum. These, these Jessica: Correct. Matt Kosterman: so-called disorders, whatever, you know, uh, symptoms, disorders, et cetera. Matt Kosterman: It's all, it's got something energetic, emotional behind it. I mean, unless you get hit by a car. But even that's arguably there, you know. Jessica: Yeah. as my teacher says, it's all here to get us into our loving. So we are incredible creators and we create, uh, you know, we, we create a lot of the things in our life to, in the end, help us remember that we were always whole. No matter what's happened to us, we don't have to strive for wholeness. We don't have to strive for enlightenment. Jessica: It's more of a remembering or what I would call like a leaning in. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I love that. You wanna have to Jessica: I remember the one of the first, first times that that happened to me. You know, I had done all the spiritual work and my daughter and I were on a airplane and a man died in front of us of a cardiac. Arrest. Like on the plane we had emergency land. Jessica: It was very traumatic, you know? And my daughter was five and like that stuck with me. And, um, and you know, but here I was thinking like I meditate and I'm evolving. And, and then like a few years later I'm on an airplane and some, a woman is walking down the aisle and she just collapses right into the, in the aisle. Jessica: And I remember I like panicked. I mean, I, I literally panicked and I, like, I was starting to have a panic attack, like hyperventilating of like, oh my God, oh no, somebody else is gonna die on an airplane. And I remember the judgment that came forward of like, well, if you were really spiritual. You wouldn't be having a panic attack. Jessica: And I just remember now I'm like, I laugh about it of like, oh, see, you think you need to get someplace in order to be in touch with your wholeness? You don't need to get anywhere. My job is really to not judge when those things come forward and present themself. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: so now I'm like, oh yeah, that's really scary. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Jessica: painted in the on the airplane and I thought she was gonna die too. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like, you know, I love Ramdas's quote. He said, when you, when you think you're really spiritual, go have Thanksgiving with your family. Jessica: Amen to that. Matt Kosterman: mean, and there's all, there's everything just gets thrown up at you Jessica: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: all, all of this stuff. Um, Jessica: true. Matt Kosterman: Jessica, thank you so much. I know you have another appointment to get to. Matt Kosterman: I really appreciate the time that you spent with me, with us today. It's always great to see Jessica: Thanks, Matt. Matt Kosterman: and, Jessica: It was really great to talk to you. Matt Kosterman: and we'll have, uh, all the link just tell us your website, Jessica: The Loving Diet. Matt Kosterman: loving Jessica: All of my social handles, TikTok, uh, Instagram, my websites, all the loving diet.com. Matt Kosterman: so you can get in Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Jessica that way. uh, I Jessica: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: you to your beautiful sunny day as I go out into the snow here in Chicago. Jessica: Oh, I will trade you though. I love the snow. I miss it. Matt Kosterman: The snow is fun. It's a great contrast though. Thanks again, Jessica. Great to see Jessica: All right, Matt, take care. Good to see you.