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You Are Not Alone With Postpartum Depression · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
0:11
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
0:14
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
0:16
Speaker 2: should Know. The Bummer Edition. Man, we're hoping to shine
0:22
Speaker 2: a light on something to help people out.
0:25
Speaker 1: That's right, the edition. You know how we do these
0:29
Speaker 1: playlist once a quarter now, which, by the way, I
0:32
Speaker 1: hope people are enjoying those, sort of collecting things in
0:35
Speaker 1: groups and releasing them once a quarter in groups of
0:37
Speaker 1: ten or twelve. I thought it was kind of a
0:39
Speaker 1: fun idea and we've been enjoying it. But maybe one
0:42
Speaker 1: day something we can bucket is just really sad, joke
0:46
Speaker 1: free episodes that we feel like are almost like a
0:49
Speaker 1: public service announcement.
0:51
Speaker 2: For sure.
0:51
Speaker 1: We just call them Bummer Episodes.
0:53
Speaker 2: You need to hear, right, I think that's a great title.
0:56
Speaker 2: Let's do that. We have enough for sure.
0:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this would definitely be one of them,
1:01
Speaker 1: because we're talking about postpartum depression and sort of the
1:06
Speaker 1: general bucket of post and even pre natal and during
1:13
Speaker 1: natal troubles that women go through because there are, you know,
1:19
Speaker 1: several subcategories that they kind of place under postpartum depression.
1:23
Speaker 1: But it is a real serious thing that affects you know,
1:27
Speaker 1: I saw ten to fifteen percent. I think Dave helped
1:31
Speaker 1: us with this, and he said one in eight, which
1:33
Speaker 1: is about twelve percent of women experience this. And it's
1:37
Speaker 1: one of those things that is not talked about enough
1:40
Speaker 1: to where it seems like the numbers could be higher
1:43
Speaker 1: because people are still ashamed to admit this kind of
1:46
Speaker 1: thing happens.
1:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a definite stigma on this, to varying
1:53
Speaker 2: degrees depending on your culture, ethnic group. Yeah, but basically
1:58
Speaker 2: across the board, you're going to find a stigma against
2:01
Speaker 2: a new mother who can't get it together for her baby.
2:06
Speaker 2: That's kind of like what people sometimes look at it as.
2:10
Speaker 2: And if you were basically being looked at like that
2:13
Speaker 2: and you're already down on yourself because you're not performing
2:17
Speaker 2: perfectly to your own standards or whatever that heaped on
2:21
Speaker 2: top of it, you're probably not gonna be like everybody,
2:24
Speaker 2: I need help. You're gonna just kind of dig in
2:26
Speaker 2: and just keep trying to go. And that is the
2:29
Speaker 2: exact opposite of what you're supposed to do with any
2:32
Speaker 2: of what are called maternal mental health issues. There's a
2:36
Speaker 2: whole umbrella term. It's not just postpartum depression or perinatal depression.
2:41
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of other ones we'll talk about a
2:43
Speaker 2: little bit too, but all of them add up to
2:47
Speaker 2: you got to ask for help. You also have to
2:49
Speaker 2: be on the lookout for needing to offer help to
2:53
Speaker 2: the new mother too, if you're the father or a
2:56
Speaker 2: family member or a friend or something.
2:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a brutal situation where I mean, giving birth
3:02
Speaker 1: is a you know, it can be a very wonderful,
3:06
Speaker 1: joyous thing, but no matter how you slice it, it's
3:08
Speaker 1: it's a very big sort of and traumatic doesn't always
3:14
Speaker 1: necessarily I think mean something awful, but just such a
3:18
Speaker 1: big life event that then you're then expected like and
3:21
Speaker 1: now it's supposed to be the best thing ever, and
3:24
Speaker 1: you're gonna be the happiest you've ever been immediately despite
3:28
Speaker 1: these huge hormonal swings, right, and you're gonna be a
3:31
Speaker 1: perfect mom. You're gonna be such a great mom. You're
3:33
Speaker 1: gonna be a perfect mom. It's just it's just so
3:35
Speaker 1: much pressure, and so yeah, this is a bit of
3:38
Speaker 1: a PSA for sure.
3:39
Speaker 2: For sure. And hit you hit something on the nose,
3:43
Speaker 2: the being perfect immediately. I mean, being perfect is too
3:48
Speaker 2: high an expectation anyway. Nobody's perfect. But the idea that
3:51
Speaker 2: you're just supposed to immediately click with your kid and
3:54
Speaker 2: just now you're a perfect mom or a great mom
3:57
Speaker 2: like that is not how it plays out very often,
4:00
Speaker 2: I would guess most of the time. It day.
4:02
Speaker 1: It's a process exactly.
4:05
Speaker 2: So, like I said, postpartum depression or perry natal I'm
4:08
Speaker 2: just gonna call it postpartum I basically don't know anybody
4:11
Speaker 2: who's ever called it pery natal depression. Yeah, so we're
4:15
Speaker 2: just gonna call it postpartum depression, with the caveat that
4:18
Speaker 2: it doesn't just happen after birth. It can happen while
4:22
Speaker 2: during the pregnancy as well.
4:23
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and up to a year following birth as well.
4:27
Speaker 2: For sure. So again this falls under the umbrella term
4:30
Speaker 2: of maternal mental health. There's also some others postpartum anxiety,
4:35
Speaker 2: postpartum obsessive compulsive disorder. We'll talk about those a little
4:38
Speaker 2: bit later. But when you put all of these things together,
4:45
Speaker 2: you get a really bleak picture of mothers in the
4:48
Speaker 2: United States, whereas the rest of the world is doing
4:52
Speaker 2: better and better with maternal mental health. The US keeps
4:56
Speaker 2: getting worse and worse, and I mean like a lot worse.
5:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. There was a CDC study that found that rates
5:03
Speaker 1: of postpartum depression were seven times higher in twenty fifteen
5:07
Speaker 1: than they were in two thousand and between twenty sixteen
5:10
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty three, new moms reported nearly sixty five
5:13
Speaker 1: percent increase of fair to poor mental health. It is,
5:19
Speaker 1: oh man, it is the leading cause of death among
5:23
Speaker 1: new mothers now in the United States, with suicide and
5:27
Speaker 1: drug overdose accounting for twenty two percent of all postpartum
5:31
Speaker 1: maternal deaths in the United States. So crazy, you know,
5:34
Speaker 1: maternal death rates. You usually look at it as like,
5:37
Speaker 1: you know, something tragic happened in the birth, like physically
5:40
Speaker 1: or biologically. And in the United States, the leading cause
5:43
Speaker 1: of death is suicide and drug overdoses.
5:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and this is the highest in the
5:49
Speaker 2: developed world by far, and that increases the highest in
5:54
Speaker 2: the developed world, right, So it's it's a crisis in
5:59
Speaker 2: the United States. It's a crisis worldwide, but in the
6:01
Speaker 2: United States it's like a five alarm fire apparently. Yeah,
6:07
Speaker 2: I'd be really interested to know what the problem is,
6:11
Speaker 2: what's behind those figures are underneath those figures same. You
6:16
Speaker 2: think it's a the the the United States transition toward
6:20
Speaker 2: the becoming the society from a Handmaid's tale.
6:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hansome to do with it.
6:26
Speaker 2: So one of the other things about the postpartum depression
6:30
Speaker 2: too that's really problematic is and you kind of touched
6:33
Speaker 2: on this early on. I think something like half of
6:37
Speaker 2: cases just go undiagnosed, in part because even doctors sometimes
6:43
Speaker 2: are like, you'll be fine, just get over, just get
6:46
Speaker 2: back in there, you know, give it the old college
6:48
Speaker 2: try and families too, And I think that that self
6:52
Speaker 2: inflicted stigma too that new mothers have.
6:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's it's one of the reasons
6:58
Speaker 1: is because and you know, they have screw tools. Now,
7:00
Speaker 1: there's one called the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale to determine
7:05
Speaker 1: like when that line has crossed because the the baby
7:08
Speaker 1: blues or the postpartum blues or something that happens a lot,
7:14
Speaker 1: like maybe even most pregnancies, you end up for you know,
7:18
Speaker 1: up to like a week or two having these hormonal
7:21
Speaker 1: swings where there's like overlapsing symptoms with what ends up
7:24
Speaker 1: being PPD. So that's why a lot of reason it
7:27
Speaker 1: becomes undiagnosed is because people think like, well, this is
7:30
Speaker 1: just the baby blues. I'm surfering from some sadness and
7:33
Speaker 1: crying and because and feeling overwhelmed, certainly because this is
7:39
Speaker 1: maybe my first time. Although I should point out that
7:42
Speaker 1: postpartum is not limited to first birth at all, right,
7:45
Speaker 1: it can happen with any like their third birth, the
7:49
Speaker 1: third kid, fourth kid, whatever. But the overlap is so
7:52
Speaker 1: great that a lot of times I think people are like, well,
7:54
Speaker 1: it'll pass, it'll pass, it's just the baby blues. But
7:57
Speaker 1: if it goes on for more than a week or two,
7:58
Speaker 1: you're probably in PP territory.
8:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that the postpartum depression is a like
8:06
Speaker 2: a different thing than the baby blues. It's the severity
8:09
Speaker 2: of the symptoms, the same symptoms and the duration of
8:13
Speaker 2: those same symptoms that really differentiate it and make it
8:16
Speaker 2: something that like you need help for, Like you need
8:18
Speaker 2: to get professional help. It's not just going to go
8:22
Speaker 2: away on its own, or if it does, it's going
8:24
Speaker 2: to you're going to grind through years of it locally
8:27
Speaker 2: unnecessarily because we didn't say this yet. It's very highly treatable.
8:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that's the good news, and we'll get
8:34
Speaker 1: to that. But you know, some of those symptoms we
8:36
Speaker 1: should list are loss of appetite, difficulty sleeping, feeling worthlessness
8:43
Speaker 1: or maybe even guilt or shame, anxiety, panic, irritability, anger,
8:50
Speaker 1: big time mood swings, difficulty with bonding with your baby,
8:54
Speaker 1: and again are these can be the baby blues or
8:57
Speaker 1: if they're super severe and go on long enough, like
8:59
Speaker 1: you said, it develops into PPD. And it's the kind
9:03
Speaker 1: of thing that can also start several weeks two a
9:05
Speaker 1: month later, So you got to keep an eye out,
9:08
Speaker 1: like if those first couple of weeks or like you're like,
9:11
Speaker 1: oh man, I managed to dodge this, it also might
9:14
Speaker 1: start later and that's okay. You just need to be aware, right.
9:21
Speaker 2: I said that there's other disorders under the umbrella of
9:25
Speaker 2: maternal mental health issues, and another one is postpartum psychosis,
9:30
Speaker 2: and it's essentially what it sounds like. The mental health
9:34
Speaker 2: disorder can become so pronounced after birth that you may
9:38
Speaker 2: suffer from delusions, You may become paranoid, you may be disoriented,
9:44
Speaker 2: you may feel disassociated from the people around you or
9:48
Speaker 2: the world itself or reality. And that is considered so
9:53
Speaker 2: postpartum depression is something you need to seek help for.
9:56
Speaker 2: Postpartum psychosis is considered a you immediately take a trip
10:00
Speaker 2: to the er when you or the people around you
10:03
Speaker 2: figure out that you are suffering from postpartum psychoasis. It's like,
10:07
Speaker 2: get in the car, maybe you can throw on a
10:09
Speaker 2: robe and just go to the er.
10:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's very rare. We should say it's one
10:15
Speaker 1: out of every one thousand berths. But they say that
10:18
Speaker 1: because very sadly, about four point five percent of the
10:21
Speaker 1: cases of that psychosis result in harm to the baby
10:25
Speaker 1: and five percent result in suicide. And you know, if
10:30
Speaker 1: you've ever seen some terrible news report about like a
10:34
Speaker 1: mom that said, you know, God told me to drown
10:36
Speaker 1: my baby, that's what we're talking about here. Because delusions
10:41
Speaker 1: of grandeur, a lot of times religious in nature, obsessive
10:45
Speaker 1: thoughts about harming you or harming your baby, extreme paranoia
10:49
Speaker 1: like that kind of thing. That's that's what falls under
10:52
Speaker 1: the postpartum psychosis spanner.
10:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, And from researching postpartum psychosis, they found that there
10:58
Speaker 2: are some additional risk factors. Seems like the number one
11:03
Speaker 2: risk factor for developing it is if you have a history,
11:06
Speaker 2: whether personal or familial, of bipolar disorder, and that if
11:11
Speaker 2: you start having sleep loss that triggers abouts of mania,
11:18
Speaker 2: that is a really big red flag that you are
11:20
Speaker 2: at a great risk of going on to develop postpartum psychosis.
11:25
Speaker 2: Meaning so sleep loss which you already are getting from
11:30
Speaker 2: just having a new baby, but if that triggers mania,
11:32
Speaker 2: that's a big red flag and that's probably what kicks
11:36
Speaker 2: the whole thing off, is that loss of sleep. It's
11:39
Speaker 2: like crazy important and it's nuts that evolution didn't take
11:43
Speaker 2: that into account, like, oh, yeah, we need to make
11:45
Speaker 2: sure everybody sleeps after this, stays awake for the next
11:48
Speaker 2: two years because it'll drive people crazy, like that can
11:53
Speaker 2: trigger that all of these maternal mental health issues.
11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that can be rough on a family.
12:00
Speaker 1: We got very very lucky with Ruby and that she
12:03
Speaker 1: was a pretty good sleeper from early on, but I've
12:06
Speaker 1: heard some nightmare stories and it's really tough. Sleep is
12:11
Speaker 1: so so important. I think another thing we didn't point
12:14
Speaker 1: out was for the postpartum psychosis, it's almost always a
12:18
Speaker 1: first time pregnancy too, which is differentiates it from postpartum
12:23
Speaker 1: general postpartum depression. But you know, some similar risk factors
12:28
Speaker 1: for regular PPD. If you have a history of depression
12:32
Speaker 1: or anxiety, you're more likely. If you had a childhood
12:35
Speaker 1: trauma that you experienced, if you underwent infertility treatment, you
12:40
Speaker 1: may be more likely to if it's an unplanned pregnancy,
12:44
Speaker 1: or if you're a low income mother, especially if you're
12:47
Speaker 1: like literally living in poverty, they experience PPD at twice
12:50
Speaker 1: the rate of higher income moms. And there are also
12:54
Speaker 1: a couple of biological factors if you suffer from anemia
12:57
Speaker 1: or hypothyroidism, and then it can be genetic. I think
13:02
Speaker 1: depending on what study you've seen, us seen anywhere from
13:04
Speaker 1: fourteen to thirty percent have like potentially a genetic factor,
13:10
Speaker 1: like inheritable.
13:11
Speaker 2: Oh really, I hadn't seen that at all. Let's talk
13:15
Speaker 2: about postpartum er perinatal OCD and perinatal mood and anxiety
13:22
Speaker 2: disorder real quick too. Okay, yeah, so POCD. This is
13:27
Speaker 2: this to me sounds like the hardest to deal with,
13:29
Speaker 2: because I think you're probably the least likely to step
13:31
Speaker 2: forward and say I need some help. Everybody. But it's
13:35
Speaker 2: obsessive compulsive disorder that develops way more quickly than typical
13:40
Speaker 2: obsessive compulsive disorder, usually very shortly after birth or after
13:46
Speaker 2: the baby's born, and it's you know, like ritual behaviors
13:53
Speaker 2: like checking on the baby incessantly, worrying that the baby's
13:56
Speaker 2: going to get contaminated with germs, and lots of intrusive
14:01
Speaker 2: thoughts that can be super disturbing.
14:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's a natural
14:06
Speaker 1: tendency if you've, especially for a first time parent, to
14:09
Speaker 1: have this new, seemingly very fragile, tender thing that you're
14:13
Speaker 1: in charge of keeping alive. It's a pretty natural instinct,
14:17
Speaker 1: I think to maybe think like, they're so small and
14:22
Speaker 1: so fragile. So my dumb advice just as a parent,
14:27
Speaker 1: is like they're they're more robust than you think, and
14:32
Speaker 1: they're made to survive, and they're made to live generally speaking,
14:36
Speaker 1: so you have that on your side. But I can
14:39
Speaker 1: see how it's pretty easy for maybe someone to go
14:42
Speaker 1: down this road of worrying about germs or checking on
14:45
Speaker 1: the baby every like ten minutes in the middle of
14:48
Speaker 1: the night, and to become sort of obsessive this. The
14:52
Speaker 1: POCD can cross the line into some even unwanted sexual obsessions,
14:59
Speaker 1: like mother apparently can have sexualized images flashing through their
15:03
Speaker 1: mind while they're changing a diaper, which is just sort
15:07
Speaker 1: of creates a cycle of you thinking like, what's wrong
15:10
Speaker 1: with me? What's going on? I'm having this weird thing
15:12
Speaker 1: flash through my head? Right, And in reality, that's all
15:16
Speaker 1: it is, is just like asleep, or your hormones or
15:20
Speaker 1: something just really unusual that flashed through your head. And
15:25
Speaker 1: as an intrusive thought, it does not mean that that's
15:29
Speaker 1: who you are or what or you're leading to some
15:32
Speaker 1: awful outcome.
15:33
Speaker 2: Right, And I think that's kind of worth saying again, Chuck,
15:36
Speaker 2: because this is the kind of thing that you would
15:39
Speaker 2: not who you're going to tell that to? Oh, and
15:40
Speaker 2: having sexualized thoughts about our baby? Yeah, right, you're not
15:44
Speaker 2: going to tell that to anybody. It's going to be
15:46
Speaker 2: so tough to admit that. So you have to know
15:50
Speaker 2: that it's not you. It is your hormones, it is
15:53
Speaker 2: not you. You do you have not suddenly developed a
15:56
Speaker 2: sexual attraction to infants or children, like, it's not you.
16:01
Speaker 2: So if you're having thoughts like this, you're not alone.
16:03
Speaker 2: It's actually more common than you would think, And like,
16:07
Speaker 2: you can get treatment for this, and you should get
16:09
Speaker 2: treatment for it, because you're probably really being hard on
16:12
Speaker 2: yourself right now.
16:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and if you give into that thought,
16:17
Speaker 1: then that's when you're maybe avoiding bathing your baby or
16:20
Speaker 1: avoiding caring and holding for your baby. So it's a
16:24
Speaker 1: tough thing to come forward and talk to people. So
16:27
Speaker 1: that's why it's really great to have a great support
16:29
Speaker 1: system of other moms, friends and families to people to
16:34
Speaker 1: lean on, because I guarantee you, if you say the
16:37
Speaker 1: weirdest thought you've had out loud in a group of
16:39
Speaker 1: moms that will be a couple of them, then they
16:42
Speaker 1: are like, I had the same thoughts, It's okay.
16:44
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, hopefully you have a group like that
16:48
Speaker 2: or confined one, you know.
16:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:50
Speaker 2: Then there's some postnatal mood and anxiety disorder, which essentially
16:55
Speaker 2: is a really terrible positive feedback loop to where you
16:59
Speaker 2: feel like you're not bonding with your baby well enough
17:02
Speaker 2: or fast enough, and so you start to become anxious,
17:06
Speaker 2: which the baby picks up on, and the baby becomes
17:09
Speaker 2: distressed or less likely to connect with you or pay
17:13
Speaker 2: attention to you, which makes it harder for you to
17:15
Speaker 2: read the baby, which makes it less likely for you
17:18
Speaker 2: to bond in any kind of quick fashion and it
17:21
Speaker 2: just keeps going in this cycle.
17:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you know what, I want to
17:26
Speaker 1: recommend a podcast because if you maybe you are a
17:30
Speaker 1: little more isolated and you don't feel like you have
17:32
Speaker 1: this or or if you just don't have this sort
17:34
Speaker 1: of support system around you. Our old buddy Jesse Thorn,
17:40
Speaker 1: who runs the Maximum Fund Network and co hosts with
17:43
Speaker 1: Judge John Hodgman with our pal his wonderful wife, Teresa Is.
17:48
Speaker 1: She's just the best. And I don't think they do
17:51
Speaker 1: it anymore, but Teresa and biz Ellis had a show
17:54
Speaker 1: called One Bad Mother. Oh yeah, I remember that for
17:57
Speaker 1: a long time and I'm pretty sure they still but
18:00
Speaker 1: they did it for many, many years, and One Bad
18:02
Speaker 1: Mother was just a great outlet and support system for
18:07
Speaker 1: just this kind of stuff. For you know, the message
18:10
Speaker 1: was always like you're doing just fine, You're doing okay.
18:13
Speaker 1: You think you're the worst, and you're really the best,
18:15
Speaker 1: And like, you know, if you're having a hard time
18:18
Speaker 1: and you're you feel like you're alone in this, like
18:20
Speaker 1: turn on that podcast, like do something like that to
18:23
Speaker 1: know that you're not alone out there.
18:25
Speaker 2: Right and pour yourself a mega pine of wine and
18:29
Speaker 2: treat yourself to the Bad Mom's Trilogy in one sitting.
18:33
Speaker 2: That's right, So you want to take a break, Yeah.
18:38
Speaker 1: Let's take a break and we'll get into some statistics
18:40
Speaker 1: about other communities and how they deal with this. All right, everyone,
19:05
Speaker 1: we're back. We promise talk about statistics, and in this case,
19:11
Speaker 1: there are some pretty stark racial disparities when it comes
19:14
Speaker 1: to PPD as far as the incidents of occurrence and
19:19
Speaker 1: very sadly treatment. Up to forty percent of black and
19:22
Speaker 1: Latina moms suffer from PPD, which is about twice the
19:25
Speaker 1: rate of non Hispanic white moms, and single black mothers
19:29
Speaker 1: are six times more likely than the general population to
19:33
Speaker 1: experience it, really sadly. Latino women and Black women are
19:40
Speaker 1: fifty seven percent and forty one percent, respectively, less likely
19:44
Speaker 1: to start treatment for PPD than white women.
19:47
Speaker 2: Right, And there's a lot of reasons for why they're
19:50
Speaker 2: less likely to start treatment. In part there's a stigma,
19:54
Speaker 2: just like with any culture. I think in Latino culture
19:58
Speaker 2: that stigma can be even stronger than white or Black culture.
20:02
Speaker 2: But for say black women in particular, it can often
20:06
Speaker 2: go undiagnosed because it doesn't present as the classic symptoms
20:09
Speaker 2: that the embra scale is designed to detect rather than
20:14
Speaker 2: depressive symptoms. Black mom might have irritability, self criticism, deep fatigue, insomnia.
20:22
Speaker 2: These are not all necessarily shared by all new mothers,
20:27
Speaker 2: and so it just the doctor just might miss it.
20:30
Speaker 2: They might be like, hey, you're just agro stop being
20:33
Speaker 2: I grow.
20:33
Speaker 1: Right, you know, yeah, I think they came up with
20:36
Speaker 1: a different a different scale just for black mothers, right.
20:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Jackson Hogue Phillips Contextualized Stress Measure, which next
20:46
Speaker 2: time you have a party, give that out as a
20:49
Speaker 2: party favor for guests.
20:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But that's great that they were like, hey,
20:53
Speaker 1: we have a we have a hole in our treatment
20:57
Speaker 1: plan here as far as you've been diagnosing this in
20:59
Speaker 1: black woms. Right, so they came up with their own scale,
21:01
Speaker 1: which is awesome. Basically everybody, The American College of Obstetricians
21:07
Speaker 1: and Gynecologists, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics, everyone
21:12
Speaker 1: says recommends that everybody should be screened for prenatal or sorry,
21:17
Speaker 1: perinatal depression, But very sadly, less than twenty percent of
21:20
Speaker 1: all women are screened for these mental health disorders, and
21:25
Speaker 1: those numbers are a lot lower for women of color.
21:27
Speaker 2: Right, So those are reasons why they might not actually
21:31
Speaker 2: go seek out treatment for PPD. There's also reasons why
21:37
Speaker 2: they're more likely to suffer from PPD in the first place,
21:40
Speaker 2: and those seem to center on social determinants of health.
21:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like.
21:45
Speaker 2: Your environment, your income level, the amount of free time
21:51
Speaker 2: you might even have to go see the doctor. All
21:53
Speaker 2: of these things tend to be less than what a
21:57
Speaker 2: white mother would experience, and all of them help increase
22:01
Speaker 2: the likelihood of experiencing postpartum depression.
22:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
22:06
Speaker 2: So regardless Chuck, of whatever your ethnic or racial group,
22:11
Speaker 2: there are essentially the same causes I mean, PPD, even
22:15
Speaker 2: though it might manifest itself differently. Even though access to
22:18
Speaker 2: help for PPD is different, those are all human made obstacles. Yeah,
22:24
Speaker 2: the biological basis for it is the same in every case.
22:29
Speaker 2: And essentially it's a combination of hormones and the stark,
22:35
Speaker 2: raving horror that is becoming a new pit.
22:39
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Like we were saying, you're thrown into
22:41
Speaker 1: this brand new thing where your first charge is like,
22:45
Speaker 1: all right, keep this baby alive.
22:47
Speaker 2: Oh I cannot imagine.
22:50
Speaker 1: I mean I remember, and this is like I imagine
22:53
Speaker 1: it's the same with adoption as with it just you know,
22:58
Speaker 1: regular birth, but you know, all of and someone just
23:00
Speaker 1: hands you a baby and the nurses see the look
23:04
Speaker 1: on your face, and hopefully the nurses are all as
23:07
Speaker 1: great as ours were, as they're just like, you're doing fine.
23:11
Speaker 1: They told us. What I said was like, hey, these
23:13
Speaker 1: babies are meant to stay alive. You're gonna be just fine.
23:16
Speaker 1: Just feed them this way, and you're on the right
23:21
Speaker 1: track by just getting food into their body. And so,
23:25
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, you know, evolution has happened
23:28
Speaker 1: in such a way where they want these babies to live.
23:32
Speaker 1: So you've already got a bit of a head start,
23:34
Speaker 1: but being bombarded by hormones and a change in hormones
23:40
Speaker 1: is definitely something that's hard to deal with because your
23:43
Speaker 1: body's bombarded with hormones because you're pregnant to help you,
23:47
Speaker 1: you know, to help you be successfully pregnant and to
23:50
Speaker 1: stay pregnant. And then immediately after, within like seventy two hours,
23:53
Speaker 1: most of these hormones go back to their previous state,
23:57
Speaker 1: and that's just a big break to throw on.
24:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty mean of evolution really to just be like,
24:04
Speaker 2: here's all the stuff that you need to have a baby.
24:06
Speaker 2: Now you don't have a baby anymore. Who cares about
24:09
Speaker 2: you and your baby? Like, thanks for the ride, lady.
24:13
Speaker 1: Right. They could have been like, well, let's just tap
24:15
Speaker 1: these down, like very slowly of the course of six months.
24:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the hey, you know, I know I'm a
24:21
Speaker 2: childless man, sis even, and I am offended by that.
24:27
Speaker 2: I'm mad at natural selection for that. It's just totally unfair.
24:30
Speaker 2: It's it's just unfair.
24:33
Speaker 1: Well, what are some of these hormones. Let's talk about them.
24:35
Speaker 2: Well, you got good old progesterone. Everybody knows that one.
24:38
Speaker 2: That one won the Super Bowl last year.
24:42
Speaker 1: That's right.
24:43
Speaker 2: It helps you create your placenta that the baby's going
24:46
Speaker 2: to I guess attached to I remember if I remember
24:50
Speaker 2: my health classer math grade correctly.
24:52
Speaker 1: Okay.
24:53
Speaker 2: It also stimulates blood vessel growth, which helps get nutrients
24:57
Speaker 2: and oxygen to the womb. Progesterone, it's like any hormone.
25:01
Speaker 2: It's actually quite clever. We have a finite number of hormones,
25:04
Speaker 2: not that many, actually, I'm not sure how many. But
25:06
Speaker 2: they do so many different things, and they do so
25:09
Speaker 2: many different things in combinations. It's just elegant and beautiful
25:13
Speaker 2: the human body can be, except when the hormone levels
25:16
Speaker 2: drop too quickly.
25:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. There's also, of course estrogen that's going
25:20
Speaker 1: to help the uters grow, contribute to fetal development. As
25:24
Speaker 1: far as organs and things go, it's going to stimulate
25:26
Speaker 1: that milk duct development. Relaxing is another one that's the
25:32
Speaker 1: most chill of all. That's going to inhibit uterine contractions
25:37
Speaker 1: until you need them to avoid premature birth. And then
25:40
Speaker 1: it's going to do double duty and relax and soft
25:43
Speaker 1: within the pelvic joints when you're preparing for birth. And
25:47
Speaker 1: then finally we have oxytocin. They really shoot through the
25:51
Speaker 1: roof at the beginning of labor to stimulate uterine contractions. Yeah.
25:56
Speaker 1: And then again, like we said, within about seventy two
25:59
Speaker 1: hours of birth, at least, estrogen and progesterone that had
26:03
Speaker 1: increased tenfold just goes back to normal. Yeah, And these
26:07
Speaker 1: huge hormonal swings are just tough to deal with. You know,
26:11
Speaker 1: it's tough to know which way is up.
26:13
Speaker 2: Okay, that's just the hormonal the biological aspect of it.
26:18
Speaker 2: There's also the environmental aspect of it. The nurture version
26:22
Speaker 2: that was nature. This is the nurture part, and having
26:26
Speaker 2: a new baby comes along with all of a sudden
26:29
Speaker 2: you have to stay at home with your new baby
26:31
Speaker 2: and can't do anything. You aren't sleeping. I think that
26:36
Speaker 2: that is like kind of overlooked by people who've never
26:38
Speaker 2: had kids or underestimated. I think maybe who haven't had
26:44
Speaker 2: kids that don't sleep very well. And then you also
26:48
Speaker 2: have to nurse. You have been physically gone through the ringer,
26:54
Speaker 2: taken through the ringer. Like, there's all sorts of different
26:56
Speaker 2: things that come that are specific exclusively to just having
27:00
Speaker 2: had a baby that combined with the hormones, they just
27:04
Speaker 2: come together and at the very least give almost all
27:08
Speaker 2: new mothers the baby blues, and then some moms postpartum depression,
27:13
Speaker 2: postpartum mood and anxiety disorder, postpartum psychosis, postpartum MOSTCD.
27:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, as far as the sleep thing goes,
27:21
Speaker 1: even if you have like a great sleeper like we did,
27:23
Speaker 1: you're still going to have disrupted sleep for a while
27:25
Speaker 1: because you have to get up and feed that baby
27:27
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, and some people have
27:29
Speaker 1: a really hard time going back to bed. So this
27:33
Speaker 1: is when partners need to really really, really, really really
27:37
Speaker 1: step up if you have a partner when you're having
27:40
Speaker 1: a baby. Imagine, I can't imagine how tough this is
27:43
Speaker 1: on your own, but yeah, step up, take feet in
27:47
Speaker 1: the middle of the night feedings. Let that mom get
27:50
Speaker 1: as much sleep as possible. And then they also say
27:53
Speaker 1: sleep when the baby sleep. So embrace those naps all
27:57
Speaker 1: day long. If like, your baby has a great nap
27:59
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, so should you.
28:01
Speaker 2: Right, don't like your mother in law, Well, if she's
28:04
Speaker 2: willing to come over and watch the baby overnight, fake it.
28:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man, And we had a lot of help,
28:10
Speaker 1: so like, because you know, my mom and Emily's mom,
28:13
Speaker 1: we're both living here at the time, and so I
28:16
Speaker 1: just really feel for people that don't have that kind
28:19
Speaker 1: of help and feel like they're trapped at home. So
28:21
Speaker 1: my other advice as a systad is to get out
28:25
Speaker 1: in the world. You might think that your baby is
28:28
Speaker 1: just a walking sickness bomb waiting to happen if they
28:33
Speaker 1: go and breathe the world's air. Ye, but there's nothing
28:36
Speaker 1: better than you can do for yourself and any baby
28:38
Speaker 1: than to get out in the world as much as possible,
28:40
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. Yeah, they'll be just fine.
28:43
Speaker 2: Great advice, Chuck, you are just rolling with it today.
28:47
Speaker 1: Well, I hope i've learned something.
28:49
Speaker 2: I think you've learned a lot. Yeah, so, yes, you
28:53
Speaker 2: have your hormone levels plummeting. That seems like a pretty
28:56
Speaker 2: good answer to where postpartum depression comes from, right, Yeah,
29:01
Speaker 2: But it turns out that they've zoomed in, they've gotten
29:03
Speaker 2: even more granular. If you're like a C suite type
29:08
Speaker 2: and have figured out that there's this one hormone in
29:10
Speaker 2: particular that really seems to be largely responsible. It's not
29:14
Speaker 2: the only one responsible for it, but it's a pretty
29:18
Speaker 2: It got caught red handed with like a bag with
29:21
Speaker 2: the dollar sign on it, wearing a black mask, kind
29:24
Speaker 2: of skulking away.
29:25
Speaker 1: That's right, So what is it, Chuck? It is alo pregnanolone.
29:30
Speaker 1: It's funny. Dave wrote this and he was like, good
29:32
Speaker 1: luck pronouncing that, And Dave, Buddy, that one's pretty easy
29:35
Speaker 1: compared to a lot of the stuff that we.
29:36
Speaker 2: See, for sure.
29:38
Speaker 1: But that is deletrious. That's a steroid naturally produced in
29:42
Speaker 1: the brain, and it plays a couple of key roles
29:45
Speaker 1: during pregnancy, and that it inhibits the release of b oxytocin,
29:49
Speaker 1: which we already talked about to avoid premature labor, which
29:51
Speaker 1: you don't want. It also protects the developing fetal brain
29:55
Speaker 1: from all those stress hormones that mom has.
29:59
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so this is pretty great stuff. Unfortunately, just
30:03
Speaker 2: like all the other hormones, it says, so long I've
30:08
Speaker 2: done my thing, like within you know, a couple of
30:11
Speaker 2: days of having given birth. So all of a sudden,
30:14
Speaker 2: not only is this a hormonal change, this natural antidepressant
30:18
Speaker 2: has suddenly just vanished on you. And this can really
30:23
Speaker 2: seem to trigger postpyerum depression in a lot of women.
30:28
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. So it's going to lower their anxiety
30:32
Speaker 1: for a while while they're pregnant and boost a mother's mood,
30:36
Speaker 1: and then after that baby is born when it crashes out,
30:40
Speaker 1: it's probably feels akin to like going off in SSRI
30:45
Speaker 1: or something.
30:45
Speaker 2: But quickly, Like I mean, whenever you go off of
30:49
Speaker 2: medication like that, you're supposed to step it down, slowly,
30:53
Speaker 2: keeper it off. This is like again nature just being
30:56
Speaker 2: a total be ripping that stuff away from you, and
31:01
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you're just you just going cold
31:04
Speaker 2: turkey off of this antidepress that you got used to
31:06
Speaker 2: over nine months. Yeah, for sure, So, Chuck, one thing
31:10
Speaker 2: that we've really been focusing on is the mom, and
31:12
Speaker 2: the mom definitely suffers from post to part and depression,
31:16
Speaker 2: but so can the baby as well.
31:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Pregnant women with PPD are far more
31:25
Speaker 1: likely to deliver a pre term baby or a baby
31:28
Speaker 1: with low birth weight. So there can be a literal
31:32
Speaker 1: like a physical outcome of postpartum depression for the baby.
31:36
Speaker 1: And we talked earlier about black and Latino women experiencing
31:40
Speaker 1: PPD at higher rates, so that also is going to
31:43
Speaker 1: correlate over to birth outcomes because Black women are fifty
31:45
Speaker 1: percent more likely to give pre term, to give birth
31:49
Speaker 1: preterm than white women, and more than twice as likely
31:51
Speaker 1: to have a baby with a low birth weight.
31:53
Speaker 2: Right, This of course makes it even more pressure laden
31:58
Speaker 2: for you to get it right right, so that also
32:02
Speaker 2: can affect your ability to bond with your baby. And again,
32:06
Speaker 2: as we saw with postpartum mood and anxiety disorder, that
32:09
Speaker 2: can create a feedback cycle where you get more and
32:11
Speaker 2: more anxious about it, more and more depressed about it,
32:14
Speaker 2: and that that affects your bonding even further, which you
32:18
Speaker 2: get more and more depressed and anxious about and that
32:20
Speaker 2: affects your baby as well.
32:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Should we take a break.
32:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is one other thing I think before we
32:27
Speaker 2: break to point out, and that is that if you
32:29
Speaker 2: have postpartum depression, it doesn't mean that you don't want
32:32
Speaker 2: to bond with your baby, like you are incapable of
32:37
Speaker 2: bonding with your baby in the healthiest possible way. It's
32:40
Speaker 2: not you, it's your biology and your environment.
32:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought you were about to say it's not you,
32:47
Speaker 1: it's them. It's the baby.
32:48
Speaker 2: It's the baby's fault.
32:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just not that into you. All right. I'm
32:54
Speaker 1: glad we could make a sort of a light joko
32:56
Speaker 1: hooe that came across that way. And we will be
32:58
Speaker 1: back right after this with treatment options because there's great
33:01
Speaker 1: news on the horizon.
33:23
Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, So you said there's great news on the horizon,
33:26
Speaker 2: and we're about to lay it on them all the
33:28
Speaker 2: moms who are bawling and yelling and doing all the
33:32
Speaker 2: things while they're listening to this episode. Treatment is quite viable.
33:38
Speaker 1: That's right. Standard treatment is what you might think. It's therapy.
33:45
Speaker 1: Perhaps antidepressant medication, certainly CBT cognitive behavioral therapy we've talked
33:50
Speaker 1: about a lot. Yeah, that has been proven to be
33:53
Speaker 1: pretty effective for PPD and postpartum anxiety and everything. Yeah,
33:59
Speaker 1: and everything in general. But in the case of CBT,
34:03
Speaker 1: you know, you're identifying these triggers that seem very automatic,
34:06
Speaker 1: these thought patterns that you think you can't help, and
34:10
Speaker 1: you know, coach you through that and how to develop
34:12
Speaker 1: a healthier way of responding to those things when they
34:15
Speaker 1: do happen.
34:16
Speaker 2: Right, God bless doctor Aaron T. Beck, the creator of CBT.
34:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there's also medication.
34:23
Speaker 2: We talked about alopregnanolone being discovered as like a main
34:26
Speaker 2: culprit for postpartum depression. That led to some drugs being
34:32
Speaker 2: expressly targeted to basically help that transition, so you don't
34:37
Speaker 2: just go cold turkey, you kind of taper off of
34:39
Speaker 2: that stuff.
34:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:41
Speaker 2: And then there's also long been SSRIs prescribed like a
34:46
Speaker 2: standard antidepressant, and that of course gives mom's pause, like
34:50
Speaker 2: any kind of medication can give a lot of mom's
34:52
Speaker 2: pause because they're like, I'm nursing, so what's that going
34:56
Speaker 2: to do to the baby?
34:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, they've studied this. The current sort of
35:01
Speaker 1: wisdom on this is that they have been detected in
35:05
Speaker 1: very very low levels, sometimes even undetectable levels, in breast milk.
35:10
Speaker 1: There are rare reports of adverse effects on infants or
35:14
Speaker 1: in infants, so that's where the science currently stands.
35:20
Speaker 2: Yes, I also saw that peroxetine and sertraline which is
35:23
Speaker 2: seroxat and zoloft okay. They seem to be the preferred
35:29
Speaker 2: antidepressants for nursing mothers because they have shorter half life
35:33
Speaker 2: than other SSRIs and the pass to breast milk and
35:37
Speaker 2: smaller amounts than other Ssriyes, So if SSRIs in general
35:41
Speaker 2: are okay, these two are super okay according to the
35:45
Speaker 2: medical establishment, not me because I'm not a doctor.
35:49
Speaker 1: That's right. And by the way, we did I think
35:51
Speaker 1: two pretty good episodes on breastfeeding back in the day.
35:56
Speaker 1: That was a two parter, right.
35:57
Speaker 2: We did one on bottle feeding and one on breastfeeding.
36:00
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so feeding your baby, and you know, I
36:03
Speaker 1: recommend you you do those and we got you know,
36:05
Speaker 1: it's always when it's two dudes podcasting about this stuff
36:10
Speaker 1: about lady stuff, we were always a little nervous and
36:14
Speaker 1: we always get really good feedback. From women that say, like,
36:17
Speaker 1: you guys did a really good job, and it's good
36:18
Speaker 1: that you guys are out there, sort of not feeling
36:21
Speaker 1: like it has to come from a woman's perspective. So
36:25
Speaker 1: I hope we're doing this all justice, you know.
36:28
Speaker 2: God, I hope so too.
36:30
Speaker 1: I think you're doing fine.
36:31
Speaker 2: I think you're doing great.
36:32
Speaker 1: But I'm just another CIS dude.
36:35
Speaker 2: So if you want to target alo pregnant alone, there's
36:39
Speaker 2: a drug called bre san alone yeah.
36:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
36:44
Speaker 2: There's another one called Zura no loan yeah, and those
36:49
Speaker 2: are the generic terms for them. The problem is, as
36:52
Speaker 2: it stands right now, if you're paying out of pocket
36:56
Speaker 2: with zero insurance, you're gonna pay thirty four grand for
36:59
Speaker 2: one in the United States. I'm sure it's like ten
37:01
Speaker 2: bucks in Canada, yeah, or fifteen grand for the other.
37:07
Speaker 1: Shame shame, shame.
37:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully if you have even passingly decent insurance in
37:12
Speaker 2: the United States, like, you're not going to pay anything
37:15
Speaker 2: even remotely like that. But yes, I think you should
37:19
Speaker 2: say it again, chuck.
37:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, still, even if enturance is covering it, shame, shame, shame, shame,
37:24
Speaker 1: capital sham.
37:26
Speaker 2: E Good for you, buddy, And now here's an ad
37:29
Speaker 2: for saran alone.
37:32
Speaker 1: Oh man, you're managing to squeeze in some jokes. I
37:35
Speaker 1: like that.
37:36
Speaker 2: I like you.
37:39
Speaker 1: So can men get postpartum depression? The answer is yes,
37:44
Speaker 1: that can happen. Apparently, between eight and ten percent of
37:46
Speaker 1: new dads suffer from some kind of anxiety or depression
37:50
Speaker 1: after the birth of a job, and it also may
37:52
Speaker 1: be connected to hormones in some cases. It's usually later
37:57
Speaker 1: than women might experience it, between three and six months later,
38:01
Speaker 1: maybe up to a year later, but a lot of
38:03
Speaker 1: the same you know issues, sleep issues, loss of appetite,
38:06
Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed, tired, sad, anxious, and also the same people
38:12
Speaker 1: at risk if you're a younger dad, if you have
38:15
Speaker 1: a history of depression, if you are struggling financially, or
38:19
Speaker 1: if you're just having trouble in your marriage or relationship.
38:22
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to be married to have
38:23
Speaker 1: a baby. We all know that, all right, All of
38:26
Speaker 1: those same kind of risk factors.
38:28
Speaker 2: Right, And there's also additional risk factors that dads customarily
38:33
Speaker 2: have that new mom's necess don't necessarily and that's a
38:36
Speaker 2: sense that's like the new mom is expected to be
38:39
Speaker 2: a great mom and raise a great healthy well adjusted
38:41
Speaker 2: baby right out of the box. The dad is expected
38:44
Speaker 2: to really step it up and provide for his new family,
38:49
Speaker 2: and that can often mean like, well, you're stuck here
38:52
Speaker 2: in this job and you're now beholden to this employer
38:56
Speaker 2: and like you may this that might not be the
38:59
Speaker 2: great greatest feeling in the world for you right then,
39:01
Speaker 2: And at the very least, it's additional pressure. So that
39:04
Speaker 2: can also kick off postpartum depression in dad's which was
39:09
Speaker 2: I think best expressed in the whamsong Everything she wants.
39:13
Speaker 1: That's right, and I hope this is clear. But to
39:16
Speaker 1: be clear, we're not obviously talking about the old days
39:19
Speaker 1: where like the man's got the job and the woman
39:21
Speaker 1: doesn't work and isn't expected to. But you know, in
39:25
Speaker 1: two income families, a lot of times when a mom
39:28
Speaker 1: has a baby, they at the very least hopefully have
39:31
Speaker 1: a great maternity leave kind of situation. If not, sometimes
39:37
Speaker 1: they have to leave like whatever job and just not
39:39
Speaker 1: get paid for a while. So there may be more
39:41
Speaker 1: pressure on the second income earner to you know, kind
39:45
Speaker 1: of make up for that loss or at least keep
39:46
Speaker 1: the ship afloat till mom can get back to work.
39:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the I guess quirks of the
39:53
Speaker 2: United States economy. I guess is that especially if you
39:58
Speaker 2: if you have a two income house and there there
40:02
Speaker 2: is not great maternal leave or paternal leave, both parents
40:06
Speaker 2: have to go to work very soon after the birth,
40:09
Speaker 2: they will have to put their kid in childcare. The
40:12
Speaker 2: United States, unlike some other countries, does not have free childcare.
40:15
Speaker 2: It is a paid problem, private business industry. And some
40:23
Speaker 2: couples figure out that the cost of daycare is more
40:30
Speaker 2: than say the mom or the dad would actually bring home,
40:34
Speaker 2: and so in that sense it makes sense to just
40:37
Speaker 2: for the mom or the dad to stay home whoever
40:39
Speaker 2: has the lower income that daycare would exceed. That's nuts
40:45
Speaker 2: that that happens to anybody, and it happens to a
40:47
Speaker 2: decent amount, at least anecdotally.
40:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, day care is really really expensive, and
40:53
Speaker 1: it's a it's a real shame because that can that
40:57
Speaker 1: helps the family, that helps for outcomes for the in
41:00
Speaker 1: their development. So my recommendation is to use your voice
41:04
Speaker 1: at the voting booth and if there are candidates in
41:06
Speaker 1: your local city or state or nationwide that believe in
41:12
Speaker 1: the idea of free childcare, then speak with your vote.
41:17
Speaker 1: That's all I'm going to say on that.
41:19
Speaker 2: Okay, one other thing too, Chuck. It's not just environment.
41:22
Speaker 2: Just like with postpartum depression in women, postpartum depression in
41:26
Speaker 2: men also seems to have to do with hormones, because
41:30
Speaker 2: men's hormones are the balance of hormones change during pregnancy
41:35
Speaker 2: as well, which is pretty neat.
41:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, your testosterone is going to probably drop
41:41
Speaker 1: during the pregnancy and continues to get lower after the
41:46
Speaker 1: birth happens. And people think, you know, researchers think that
41:50
Speaker 1: that's basically to keep tooktook at bay and to reduce
41:54
Speaker 1: aggressive tendencies while you know, father infant bonding is happening, Like,
42:00
Speaker 1: chill out, dad, you need to be gentler right now.
42:03
Speaker 1: So we're gonna lower your.
42:04
Speaker 2: Tea, right and also stick around and help raise the
42:08
Speaker 2: kid rather than go look for your next conquest.
42:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I wonder if I should say this on
42:13
Speaker 1: the air.
42:14
Speaker 2: Well, we can edit it out.
42:16
Speaker 1: All right, We'll see. One of the funny things that
42:18
Speaker 1: Emily has done lately is you know, you know, all
42:24
Speaker 1: the in a stupid man of sphere world, like you know,
42:28
Speaker 1: low tea beta male. Soy, that's another one. Like you're soy,
42:33
Speaker 1: like because you eat soy instead of meat like a
42:35
Speaker 1: man does. She will anytime I'm like, I don't know,
42:40
Speaker 1: just being wishy washy about something, or what if she
42:42
Speaker 1: feels like she just wants to kind of pokepun at me,
42:43
Speaker 1: she she'll call me like a beta cook or ask
42:47
Speaker 1: me if I have low tea, or like hey, soy,
42:49
Speaker 1: come over here and help me with this thing. Oh
42:51
Speaker 1: my gosh, it's very I mean, it always just brings
42:54
Speaker 1: the house down between the two of us because it's
42:56
Speaker 1: just such a dumb thing. Anyway, I like that she's
42:59
Speaker 1: taken something from the manisphere and kind of twisted it
43:01
Speaker 1: to use it in our own marriage as a comedy.
43:04
Speaker 2: I would love to be sitting on the couch someday
43:06
Speaker 2: and heard do that to you, because yes, I would
43:08
Speaker 2: so funny.
43:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wait for Ruby to be like, what's a
43:11
Speaker 1: beta cup?
43:12
Speaker 2: Right? Let's see? Oh yeah. Postpartum depression is also treatable
43:19
Speaker 2: and dad, so if you think you have it, to
43:21
Speaker 2: kelp because it's very treatable too.
43:23
Speaker 1: That's right.
43:25
Speaker 2: Uh, you got anything else?
43:27
Speaker 1: I got nothing else? Man. I always feel like we're
43:28
Speaker 1: on ice skates with these episodes.
43:30
Speaker 2: So I didn't feel like that about this one.
43:32
Speaker 1: I always get a little nervous in how I speak
43:34
Speaker 1: about this stuff. So I hope you did Okay, you
43:36
Speaker 1: did great? Man, you did great?
43:38
Speaker 2: Well, then it sounds like we both did great.
43:41
Speaker 1: But I want moms to write in and say you
43:42
Speaker 1: did great. I don't care what I think about you
43:44
Speaker 1: and what you think about me anymore. We know we
43:46
Speaker 1: love each other.
43:47
Speaker 2: All right, fair enough? Okay, Yeah, if you're a new
43:51
Speaker 2: mom or an old mom or even never had kids,
43:54
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. We would love to hear from you
43:57
Speaker 2: about this episode.
43:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just saying we're great, Like if we
44:01
Speaker 1: fell short, let us know and we'll try and do
44:02
Speaker 1: better and correct it.
44:04
Speaker 2: Well. Put man, I'm glad you said that too, because yeah,
44:07
Speaker 2: we sounded like a couple of I know, like please
44:09
Speaker 2: make us feel better, right, a couple of cucks.
44:12
Speaker 1: Beta cucks.
44:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, since Chuck just laughed about beta cucks again, it's
44:17
Speaker 2: so funny. That means it's time for listener mail.
44:24
Speaker 1: Soy is the one that really gets me.
44:25
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's crazy as soy actually does raise
44:28
Speaker 2: your estrogen levels and can give men many boobs.
44:32
Speaker 1: Oh well, great, give it to me. I love it
44:36
Speaker 1: all right. This is from Adam and Michigan. Hey, guys,
44:38
Speaker 1: I'm a little more than disappointed that in the Three
44:40
Speaker 1: Mile Island episode you fail to mention professional wrestler Adam Baum.
44:46
Speaker 1: He was a popular wrestler in the nineteen eighties and
44:48
Speaker 1: the WWF. He was billed as being from three Mile
44:51
Speaker 1: Island and was in imposing six six two ninety well.
44:55
Speaker 1: He had yellow con yellow contact lenses and a spinish
45:00
Speaker 1: move was called the Adam Smasher. This is so great.
45:03
Speaker 1: He was a rather imposing figure with a very creepy
45:05
Speaker 1: theme song, and he made quite an impact. His real
45:07
Speaker 1: name is Brian Clark. He's still alive and looks almost
45:10
Speaker 1: like he did in the nineteen eighties. Adam from Michigan.
45:13
Speaker 2: Nice. I had never heard of him, so thank you
45:16
Speaker 2: for letting us know. Adam.
45:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun.
45:18
Speaker 2: You hadn't heard of him?
45:20
Speaker 1: No, I mean I didn't keep up with wrestling much.
45:23
Speaker 2: No, I didn't either, But it sounds like we were
45:26
Speaker 2: missing out on a lot.
45:27
Speaker 1: But you know, we're just soy love and Beta Cux.
45:29
Speaker 1: So what do we know.
45:32
Speaker 2: If you want to be like Adam and let us know? Wait,
45:34
Speaker 2: is this from Adam Bomb himself.
45:37
Speaker 1: No, this is a d A.
45:38
Speaker 2: M oh okay. Well, there was an Adam Bomb who
45:42
Speaker 2: was a DJ at album maybe eight. For a while,
45:45
Speaker 2: he had like the Soul something show.
45:48
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I bet I listened to it.
45:49
Speaker 2: It was really good. Well, anyway, thanks a lot Adam
45:52
Speaker 2: from Michigan for letting us know about Adam Bomb. We
45:56
Speaker 2: love that And if you want to get in touch
45:58
Speaker 2: with us like Adam did, you can send us an
46:00
Speaker 2: email to send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio
46:04
Speaker 2: dot com.
46:08
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
46:11
Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
46:15
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.