Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Gaming | Andrew Augustin | S7 E2

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Future of Gaming | Andrew Augustin | S7 E2 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:24:12 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to season seven episode two of Future of XYZ. We are talking today about an explosive topic in terms of its growth in the world-gaming. And our guest today is Andrew Augustin. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ. 00:00:24:14 - 00:00:27:07 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me. Good to be here. 00:00:27:09 - 00:00:54:17 Speaker 1 Andrew, you're a game designer yourself. You’ve worked with many of the biggest gaming companies, which we'll talk about. You're a 2D animator, so classic, you know, pen and ink or pencil or whatever your medium is drawing characters, colors, all of these things. You're an educator. I'm pretty excited about your role as an assistant professor in the Department of Arts and Entertainment Technologies at the University of Texas Austin, where you're based now 00:00:55:10 - 00:01:20:14 Speaker 1 having recently moved from Houston. And you're an author, I mean, you've written you've written a book about gaming that combines practical insights from your career as a game designer with your teaching philosophy and a bunch more for the next generation. I mean, you've been featured in all sorts of different newspapers and magazines and lists, including Forbes 30 under 30. 00:01:20:16 - 00:01:43:03 Speaker 1 It's a pretty impressive profile, and I'm really excited that we get to talk to you because I think you have a really unique kind of intersectional perspective on gaming. But as I always like to do, to open these episodes of Future of XYZ, we have to define what it is. So in context of your expertise, what is gaming? 00:01:43:05 - 00:02:08:05 Speaker 2 I mean, when I talk to my students, we kind of have this as opening kind of assignment, just to kind of be like, what is a game right? And it's one of those things where it's interesting because everybody has their own kind of definition of what a game is to some extent, right. And a lot of conversation in the video game industry, like when somebody tries something unique and different in the field, it kind of sparks up a conversation like, is this considered a game? 00:02:08:07 - 00:02:22:10 Speaker 2 You know, some people would be like, no. Some people like, yes. But my simple definition is basically something that you can engage in that has a winning and a losing condition. And that's about as basic as I can personally get it. 00:02:22:12 - 00:02:27:15 Speaker 1 I love that. I mean, it's basically like sports. It's like you win or you lose. 00:02:27:17 - 00:02:31:07 Speaker 2 Sports are a type of game. So, you know. So, yeah, absolutely. 00:02:31:09 - 00:02:57:19 Speaker 1 That makes sense. And as we think about, like, the gaming industry, I mean, in preparing for this, I'm not a gamer. I barely watch TV, so I'm like, the wrong person. But I am fascinated as I watch my friends with kids, as even my friends and of my age group and beyond who game. And I've been amazed as I've grown in my own career in marketing how big gaming has become. 00:02:58:00 - 00:03:22:10 Speaker 1 But prior to really the 1970s, it wasn't a thing. I mean, I read a little bit of the history. Obviously, we are getting into all sorts of crazy technologies now, but could you just talk a little bit about the history of video gaming and more importantly, kind of where it is today and where you see it heading as we look ahead from a technological and industrial perspective? 00:03:22:12 - 00:03:28:23 Speaker 2 So video gaming specifically or like gaming as a whole. 00:03:29:00 - 00:03:30:17 Speaker 1 You get to answer the question. 00:03:30:19 - 00:03:58:18 Speaker 2 Okay. So to me, video games, right? You know, the video portion of games right is traditionally like something that you could play through a form of digital, you know, or whatever kind of video based, you know, output like a TV or even some kind of handheld thing that has some kind of screen output. So that was like from, if I’m not mistaken, around the seventies was when it became kind of more of a household thing. 00:03:58:20 - 00:04:09:03 Speaker 2 I guess with the Atari, I might have my dates and everything wrong. But, you know, Atari was kind of like one of the big, you know, grandfathers starting of the industry. As far as 00:04:09:03 - 00:04:11:11 Speaker 1 That was ‘72, you're exactly correct. 00:04:11:13 - 00:04:33:18 Speaker 2 Okay. Okay. So like, you know, and then, you know, as as it started, the industry started getting more popular. I know there was a crash at one point, but I know Nintendo is kind of known as like, you know, the savior of video games because at one point it crashed, I guess because it was a new industry, they didn't know if it was going to be something that was continuing or was just a fad. 00:04:33:20 - 00:05:04:01 Speaker 2 Nintendo kind of came out with the entertainment system that really revolutionized and popularized video games and really made it a household thing. Of course, you know, Sega comes in, Sony, who is a big player now, Nintendo who is obviously still a big player, Microsoft you know various companies came in. So for a very long time it was mostly about updating graphics basically you know how the visuals look on the screen, right. 00:05:04:03 - 00:05:31:13 Speaker 2 Of course, sound technology, you had bleeps and bloops back in the day. The you know, the primitive video game days. But now you have like full orchestral music and sound effects. And full, you know, all the Dolby Atmos, whatever kind of sound profiles. So that's been traditionally a thing like, you know, better graphics, you know, faster RAM, you know, that allows the games to kind of look more realistic. 00:05:31:13 - 00:05:56:22 Speaker 2 I guess that's really kind of what the industry has traditionally been kind of pushing forward is more of a more a better sense of realism in every generation. And when I say generation, for those who may not know, like the Nintendo entertainment system was one generation, the Sega Genesis is another generation, PlayStation and so forth, so generations kind of come every like 6 to 8 years or so, 5 to 8 years. 00:05:56:24 - 00:06:24:11 Speaker 2 We call those generations in the game industry. But each generation there’s more powerful hardware. You know, technology gets more advanced and incorporate that into the consoles and developers take that and try to make the next, you know, it's like given developers more powerful, fun tools to play with. It’s kind of like giving artists more and more colors, like, you know, you got two colors you can do right now, but then every generation you kind of double the colors, there’s four now there’s eight. 00:06:24:11 - 00:06:40:24 Speaker 2 Now, you know, now we're at the point where there's millions of colors and you can create, you know, amazing paintings. You know, works of art. Doesn't mean that the older games were not good in any way. I actually kind of like to have my students do, let me know if I’m rambling by the way, because I 00:06:41:02 - 00:06:43:03 Speaker 1 No you're good. 00:06:43:05 - 00:07:07:18 Speaker 2 I kind of I tend to have my students do assignments where I limit what they can use because I feel like limitation breeds creativity, because sometimes you just give them all this stuff and it's like, cool, but now what are you going to do with just these, you know, five things, right? And it seems daunting. But then when they kind of really think outside the box, they can kind of embrace something creative and then they kind of just this is just like, I like it. 00:07:07:18 - 00:07:20:00 Speaker 2 And even like because of that, like old systems, they kind of have a style now, you know, what was once a limitation is now an art form today. So, you know, but yeah, I don't I forgot what the question. 00:07:20:14 - 00:07:40:21 Speaker 1 No, that's really neat. I love that. It leads me actually to a question I want to ask you, because you've collaborated with these biggest of the entertainment companies and not just in gaming, but Paramount, Aristocrat, which is a gaming technology company, Electronic Arts, which is one of my favorites in terms of like kind of the creativity that they put out. 00:07:40:21 - 00:07:56:15 Speaker 1 There are a bunch of others. What have you learned, Andrew, about the current state in the near future of gaming from these interactions that has either most surprised and or inspired you recently? 00:07:56:17 - 00:08:17:15 Speaker 2 I find it interesting that a proportion of the industry is really trying to push for VR and AR gaming. My personal opinion on that, I'm curious as to why they keep trying it. It doesn't seem like it's really picking up like I guess I could. I mean, they've been trying to do VR since I was a child in the nineties. 00:08:17:17 - 00:08:49:18 Speaker 2 You know, the the virtual boy, it's an artist. It's called a virtual boy. And that kind of crashed and burned. And, you know, there's been various iterations of trying to play around with, you know, VR technology. So part of me is like, that's the future because right it makes sense. You’re taking it from a screen based, you know, limited screen based entertainment form and you're bringing it more into, you know, the real world in a kind of way, or at least having the players feel like they're actually going into the virtual reality realm and interacting with that. 00:08:49:18 - 00:09:07:18 Speaker 2 But for some reason, it just still has not. I think there's a bunch of hoops that they have to jump through that that they're still having to jump through, that they haven't ironed out just right for it to be like a thing. And I don't know if it's ever going to be really a full thing. So but that was what I was thinking 00:09:07:18 - 00:09:38:06 Speaker 2 the future was with gaming. Streaming at one point was a brand new thing when it came to gaming, like not that long ago, like within the last like ten, 15 years I guess at this point. Now where we're going from here. To be honest with you, I have no idea because, you know, current consoles to me, like the PlayStation five, feels very similar to the PlayStation four, which to me also feels very similar to PS3 and so forth. 00:09:38:06 - 00:09:59:00 Speaker 2 Right. There's kind of like a point where you get that law of diminishing returns, right? Like, you know, you get better with graphics to the point where you can't even really tell the difference anymore. I think we just need a big leak somewhere. And I think the industry might be in a area where they're scrambling to figure out what that might be. 00:09:59:02 - 00:10:01:10 Speaker 2 I know A.I. is a tech. I'm sorry. 00:10:01:12 - 00:10:35:20 Speaker 1 I was just going to say and I want to I want to put I want to put a pin in A.I. because it might be the answer to this next question, but like, I think about gaming and the gaming industry as being very innovative in general, right? Exactly what you said like, it started, like it's this digital electronic thing that started in the forties and fifties, you know, and then it became in the seventies, as you were mentioning, like Atari and and largely like the arcade game, right, where people were like in a community space doing this thing together, or at least in cohort. 00:10:35:22 - 00:10:56:11 Speaker 1 And then it like leaped into like as you just said, like the Nintendo or something that's like at home. And now I feel like it's expanding again, even without AR/VR into this community based thing again, even in the privacy. But you know, kind of in the cloud or whatever. I mean, innovation comes in many forms, but I think of the gaming industry as very innovative. 00:10:56:11 - 00:11:04:17 Speaker 1 What do you think in terms of kind of in the role of innovation maybe that gets you to A.I. or maybe not. 00:11:04:19 - 00:11:34:13 Speaker 2 Based on what I've been researching because I look up a bunch of stuff on the state of gaming. I think A.I. is like the big buzzword right now and how they're going incorporate that in the game. So instead of having, let's say, an interaction or a few interactions that are predetermined and designed out by designers, you know, now you could have interactive dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of interactions through the use of A.I. 00:11:34:13 - 00:12:08:05 Speaker 2 And what I mean by that is like if you go talk to a random character that's living in this world traditionally, you already have the dialog planned out for that character, you know, or if there's various versions of dialog depending on what the player did, there's still a limit of what the dialog from that character is going to be, the way A.I. might just be some completely generated response that may take into account every action you've done in the game thus far, which would make a very unique, personalized experience for every player right? 00:12:08:07 - 00:12:35:14 Speaker 2 So that's big. A.I. can also generate new worlds that other character players probably won't experience. You know, each game can have its own, you know, whatever custom generated world that the player would have to play through. It just kind of all these different things right. Assets that don't have to be created by hand by dozens of artists and just kind of generated by A.I. 00:12:35:23 - 00:13:00:20 Speaker 1 I mean I'm listening to you say this, Andrew, and I can see it. I was at the Adobe Conference the last two years. Like I see what their, for instance, doing with A.I. and bringing in the tools for creators, ostensibly. But you're a 2D designer and a game designer, you've contributed quite significantly in your resumé as both a character developer and world builder. 00:13:00:22 - 00:13:20:22 Speaker 1 Like you're pretty versatile. You have strong creative vision. That's what you're known for from everything that I saw and know about you, like within this broader gaming kind of industry, what does this A.I. thing mean for the talent? 00:13:20:24 - 00:13:41:18 Speaker 2 I have multiple answers for that I guess. For the talent, okay, and one and one kind of viewpoint is the doom and gloom or I don't know, big corporations are about the, you know, the bottom line, right? You want to make as much money while spending the least amount as possible. If you don't need 30 people, why have 30 people, right. 00:13:41:18 - 00:14:08:11 Speaker 2 And corporate, they're known for that kind of, you know, cutthroat, you know, just bottom line profit. Yeah, profit margin base, it’s business, right. So there's a doom and gloom story there because it's like, oh no, we're going to lose jobs. And then what are we going to do if A.I. is taking over? But then there's another kind of side of it, because I'm more independent minded, like I've been even though I've worked in, you know, major industry, 00:14:08:11 - 00:14:30:19 Speaker 2 I've also done my own thing and there's an upside too where I'm like, man, I can do more than I was able to do by myself, you know, now I can, I don't know, maybe A.I. can help me begin to formulate ideas for a project. Or maybe it can give me some ideas to help push past this art block that I'm having. 00:14:30:19 - 00:14:53:15 Speaker 2 Or maybe it could stitch together, you know, these videos and make a good trailer for me, and then I can go in and make modifications there. It could be a thing that is very useful for small teams to to produce productions that feel like are made by bigger teams, right. So those are two different ways to look at it, you know. 00:14:53:15 - 00:15:27:24 Speaker 2 But I mean, it's if it's technology to me as a whole is supposed to make our lives easier, right? Unfortunately, it means careers get chopped. I mean, look at Photoshop. I remember, Photoshop was one of those things where artists come out of the big debate like, I don't really consider that art is digital. You used to have big design firms where everybody would have like a designer who would cut out letters and you stick it on your little board, you make the magazine ad and now you just pull up Photoshop, type it, move your things around. 00:15:27:24 - 00:15:33:03 Speaker 2 So it's like, I feel like this is just like the next level of that kind of advancement. 00:15:33:05 - 00:15:39:09 Speaker 1 Our next episode is with the creative director at Monotype, which does typography, so I'm sure we’ll have this conversation. 00:15:39:15 - 00:15:45:02 Speaker 2 Okay, Yeah, that'll be Yeah. 00:15:45:04 - 00:16:12:12 Speaker 1 That's true. It's where there's every like it's opportunity and risks together. Yeah. The industry as a whole though, coming back to the business of it, you know, you mentioned like Sony, you mentioned Nintendo, I mean like there has been a commercial explosion in the gaming industry. It's it's really big business, right? I think it's like, you know, the video game industry is over $240 billion a year now. 00:16:12:12 - 00:16:32:24 Speaker 1 Right. And it's expected to continue growing 10 to 15% for the next, you know, whatever, ten years. So, I mean, there's really no end in sight. I mean, there are a couple of factors here that I'm interested in. I mean, the first is, of course, like what is the impact on the talent? Again, like the designer side talent specifically. 00:16:33:01 - 00:17:09:20 Speaker 1 The second is what's the impact on the players in the human mind? And I guess and you may or may not even have thought about this part and I don't mean to throw it out, but I'm doing a talk actually at South By in a couple of months about, you know, circular design and digital because the environmental impact of this growth, because all of this is video bids and living in the cloud is huge. Like what do you what do you make as someone who makes their career in every aspect and is has such a clear passion for gaming like is the commercial explosion of gaming besides being good for people's pocketbooks? 00:17:09:20 - 00:17:18:05 Speaker 1 Like what's the impact on on again those three those three different constituent. 00:17:18:07 - 00:17:43:08 Speaker 2 So very interesting question and something I can actually have conversations about with friends of mine. I kind of think of it like it kind of narrows it basically makes companies not take as many risks. You know, I think about like the nineties and the amount of cartoons, right? This is not games per se, but like the amount of cartoons we've had yet. 00:17:43:08 - 00:18:12:17 Speaker 2 Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Tiny Toons, you name it is a gazillion franchises and you know, created. The risk was there but now have the technology we have all this data, we have all this, you know, who's streaming this, how many downloads did this get, how many you know, and and you know, what is the big what is the big blockbuster game that's making, you know, however many millions a month we need to be just like that. 00:18:12:17 - 00:18:38:09 Speaker 2 It kind of like stifles the creativity and and you know, everything starts feeling homogenized, right. Everything starts feeling the same. And it's just like because of money, it becomes, you know, creativity, any kind of creative endeavor that gets, you know, I guess, infiltrated by the business mind of, you know, business people, you start to lose that creativity, you know. 00:18:38:11 - 00:18:44:15 Speaker 2 So as a designer, I feel like, yeah, we're kind of seeing a lot of the same kind of games. 00:18:44:15 - 00:18:46:01 Speaker 1 Rinse and repeat. 00:18:46:03 - 00:18:58:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. Versus like all the new because if you if you look at games today, there's a lot of remakes right now. I think we've kind of hit like that point where movies have a lot of remakes now that a lot of remakes, right? So it's like. 00:18:58:11 - 00:19:05:03 Speaker 1 Is that, like, franchise, like, licensing stuff or are you just talking about like genres or the same approach. 00:19:05:05 - 00:19:25:04 Speaker 2 Let me put it like this, every, every Nintendo console, you're going to get another Mario, you're going to get another Zelda, you're going to get another Metroid, you're going to get, you know, you get the same ten IP,s you know, and it's like, but when you rewind back, Nintendo used to put out all kinds of different things. Sega came out with all kinds of different things. 00:19:25:04 - 00:19:49:03 Speaker 2 You know, Microsoft, all these different companies played around with all kinds of different things. And a lot of the IPs that we have that are still strong today kind of been created in the nineties when there were still Resident Evils, Silent Hills, Metal Gear Solids, Sonic the Hedgehog, like you name it, whatever’s still popular today that they keep pushing out has probably been around for the last three decades or so. 00:19:49:03 - 00:20:11:03 Speaker 2 You know, you don't hear of as many new things, I mean you do you like you have Fortnite that's new that that kind of took over but you still don't hear as many you don't you don't get as many risks or new IPs or opportunities as a designer to really create something that feels fresh if that makes sense. 00:20:11:05 - 00:20:41:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, totally. It does. And and in terms of the players, I mean, I was fascinated. I was reading in preparation for this this like, and maybe this is just like ballyhoo, I don't know. But it was like Bartle player taxonomy which categorizes gamers. Have you heard of this? Into, like, four main types. It's like, I was just curious, like I don’t know it said like achievers, explorers, socializers, and killers who like the killers, like, thrive on domination and like, you know, competition. 00:20:41:07 - 00:21:11:06 Speaker 1 And you know the achievers like, aim for, like, high reward, like, whatever. It's like, it's again, like, you know, again, it might be ballyhoo psychology, but what I'm curious about is, like, how all of this translates, because there are studies that are showing that people, not just kids, are spending hours and hours and hours inside these games at this point, like how is it impacting their psychology outside the gaming world too. 00:21:11:08 - 00:21:24:22 Speaker 2 It's a great question, actually, because, I mean, my whole life I've played games. I don't play as nearly as much now. I'm more designing and teaching versus playing as much. But it's funny how that works, but. 00:21:24:24 - 00:21:27:07 Speaker 1 Now you’re the expert, that's why. 00:21:27:09 - 00:21:51:17 Speaker 2 I know, right? I think it's like, I mean I think it depends on who you are. Some people, it's like music, I guess. Like some people can hear. I can hear rap song all day and not want to go do whatever, whatever they're saying in the music. And then you have some people, they listen to it and they want to live that exact lifestyle that they hear in music. 00:21:51:19 - 00:22:16:23 Speaker 2 So I know I hope this is the answer to your question, but I know, like, you know, certain people play shooting games and they think, this is driving the kids mind or people's minds if they're going to want to go out and be influenced by this stuff. But I just think it depends on who you are. I mean, movies, any kind of form of entertainment, like if you are in it, or absorbing it, you could be influenced in some kind of way, like outside of that medium. 00:22:16:24 - 00:22:18:23 Speaker 2 You know, in the real world. 00:22:19:00 - 00:22:45:03 Speaker 1 You actually jump to a different question. And so I'm going to go to that question, Andrew, which is I wanted to ask about that. I mean, I think gaming, you know, you've really focused a lot of your energy in this conversation, but also career wise in like in the creative aspects of it, right? Like you started as an artist and as a gamer became like, you know, built a career in gaming, which is an amazing thing. 00:22:45:03 - 00:23:04:19 Speaker 1 And I'm sure there are dozens and, you know, thousands of people around the world who would dream of such a thing. There is something kind of nefarious on the gaming side, which is like, you know, you just mentioned the violence, you know, the depiction of violence. And what does that do? The addiction, the addictive quality of, you know, of it. 00:23:04:19 - 00:23:22:15 Speaker 1 And it's that's just all digital. It's like we know that social media is being created for us to be addicted to it, to the dopamine hit. So I don't think it's gaming specific. Two things that came up for me, though, besides the violence and the addiction that were really interesting is people are making their careers as gamers, which is completely sedentary. 00:23:22:15 - 00:23:43:09 Speaker 1 So you have like an exacerbation of an already like movement thing. But the one that got me and I'm curious if any of these are all of these are being discussed by the industry and especially by the design side of the industry, which is women. I mean, the the, the depictions of women in video games are pretty horrific. 00:23:43:09 - 00:24:05:23 Speaker 1 And what I was surprised to study and actually I heard it on NPR this morning as well in in Taiwan, there's a huge thing of like, you know, of women not being treated well in the gaming industry, even though women make up more than 50% of gamers today. How is the industry going to tackle these things? I'm sure if it's against women, it's against people of color and, you know, sexual diversity as well. 00:24:05:23 - 00:24:11:12 Speaker 1 Like, is the gaming industry addressing these things or is it just kind of like, oh well. 00:24:11:14 - 00:24:37:09 Speaker 2 There was a big disruption and as far as like that kind of those tropes in gaming, I think her name was Anita Sarkeesian. I don't want to butcher her last name or anything, but yeah, she created a video series about the tropes in gaming, talking about, you know, depiction of women in games and and so forth. 00:24:37:09 - 00:25:22:23 Speaker 2 Right? So there has been a big talk about that. It's kind of been a thing for from as far as like being put out front, you know, gaming news media. I think for like the last decade and you've seen a plethora, a plethora, however you say that word right now I can't speak, of of games that have, you know, women as the as the main character, the protagonist or showing them in a different light, not like a weak damsel in distress or or not even scantily clad or so there's been a lot of but there's also is interesting because now I've been noticing like Naughty Dog has put out a trailer for a game. 00:25:23:00 - 00:25:48:06 Speaker 2 I think it's called Intergalactic or something, I'm not familiar, I could be wrong. But it showcases the main character and I think it's just a woman with her head shaved and people are just like kind of being like, okay, there's DEI stuff like we're tired of putting politics in games. You know, just make a good game. The character has, you know, it's just write 00:25:48:07 - 00:26:13:19 Speaker 2 good characters like, don't try to shove down, you know, don't try to preach, you know, all these things down gamers throats, just make good characters like and we'll be fine with the character. I get both sides, right? Because you do need you know, you need the people that are like, no, we need to start depicting and kind of get people accustomed to, you know, seeing black people in different light, women in different light, etc.. 00:26:13:19 - 00:26:44:21 Speaker 2 Right. But then also I can understand, you know, it’s entertaining it’s a form of entertainment. You pay your hard earned money, you just want to play something, have fun and not be preached to the whole night. You have the right to do that. So so there's this kind of like little war going on with that right now in the industry. There's definitely been more initiative to kind of get, you know, diversity in gaming and just kind of have a better representation and understanding of different cultures and genders and everything like that. 00:26:44:23 - 00:27:00:03 Speaker 2 So I will say the industry has actually been definitely, you know, pushing and trying and giving opportunities for to the less fortunate or the underrepresented, I don't know why I can't speak today, but the underrepresented. 00:27:00:05 - 00:27:01:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, you're on camera. 00:27:01:15 - 00:27:31:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, right. That are there, right. So is funding available. There's, there's been exposure, there's, there's camps and all these kind of things that can really kind of cater to those groups and really kind of help diversify the industry. And of course, when you diversify those creators are going to start putting out projects that are based around their experience there, you know, and help, you know, kind of alleviate a lot of those issues. 00:27:31:10 - 00:27:35:06 Speaker 2 It's going to take its time. But, you know, I think the industry has really been trying. 00:27:35:08 - 00:27:58:24 Speaker 1 Well, we're coming up on time and I have my standard two last questions, but I want to ask one other normal question first, Andrew, because your passion is really clear and it's not nothing to become an educator, right? So, yes, you're still a practitioner, but you're also you have a clear passion for educating and writing, I mean, and sharing what you know and what you've learned. 00:27:58:24 - 00:28:16:24 Speaker 1 And it comes back to what we just said. If you get more diverse voices, they then share their stories and it more organically hopefully starts transpiring that we have less of the biases and and negative kind of impact that we might otherwise have. But I mean, we have a very fast moving world. We have this very big business that we're talking about. 00:28:17:05 - 00:28:34:10 Speaker 1 What does it take to inspire and teach, frankly, the next generation of creatives, given the changes in technology, the innovation, the market forces, specifically in arts, design, and entertainment technologies? 00:28:34:12 - 00:28:36:04 Speaker 2 But you said, what is it? What does it take? 00:28:36:04 - 00:28:40:02 Speaker 1 What's it take to teach and inspire them? 00:28:40:04 - 00:29:01:01 Speaker 2 I just I guess really I just try to be passionate myself, like this is what I like to create, you know, It's like what I like to do, What I tell my students all the time is you know, I don't want to wait till I'm 60, 70 to retire or give back then to the next generation. I want to give back as I'm creating because I had to learn this stuff myself, right? 00:29:01:02 - 00:29:20:19 Speaker 2 And I feel like I'm passionate about the industry. I want to basically be able to pass my knowledge down as I'm getting it to those who are younger than me, those aspiring to be. That way we can fast track the the innovations, the better projects or, you know, one of the big reasons I got in is because I didn't see as many people that look like me. 00:29:20:19 - 00:29:46:24 Speaker 2 That's not my main reason. But it was like, well, let me go get in a classroom where people can see, you know, okay, there are other diverse groups and I look at it like food or film or anything. Like I don't want to just eat Mexican food, you know? But I love Mexican food, but I also love Indian food, but I also love food made by women, by men, you know, like, you know. So it is like I feel like with games, it's kind of like the same thing. 00:29:46:24 - 00:30:24:09 Speaker 2 We get all these different voices in there. Who knows what kind of, you know, creativity that it brings the industry. You know, it's like music, you know, you have different music you got from regional, you know, different sounds and boom, bops and beats and type of singing and rapping and whatever, right? So I think gaming is has a lot of a space that can be explored by giving back to the aspiring artists or creatives or designers program, whatever, going to, you know, little girls who may not be exposed to it say, hey, this is an industry that is creative. 00:30:24:13 - 00:30:45:01 Speaker 2 Are you an artist? Maybe you would like to create, maybe like see your characters interact with your characters, or are you a songwriter? Maybe you’d like to have your music, you know, incorporated in the game or something and see, you know, just kind of just explore and maybe you won't like it, who knows? But what does it take, though, like I said, it's going to take being passionate. 00:30:45:03 - 00:31:09:00 Speaker 2 And if they see that you're passionate and that you care, that you want them to, you know, explore just have fun with it. I think they just soak it up. I don't really kind of force like my students to be Picasso or anything, you know, create what you want as long as you're passionate about it, and you're really working at which, you know, bringing forth, showcase and whatever it is that you're trying to create. 00:31:09:02 - 00:31:13:00 Speaker 2 I think that's enough, you know what I mean? So hope that answers the question. 00:31:13:04 - 00:31:35:14 Speaker 1 It does, I love it. Model. Model by doing what you've been featured, Andrew, in so many different magazines and things over the years, but are there like one or two key kind of references that you think of when you, like, talk about gaming with either students or, you know, I'm sure you have friends and family who are like, what is this? 00:31:35:14 - 00:31:43:16 Speaker 1 Like, what are there like iconic references to help someone who might be listening to the podcast now, who might want to learn more about gaming. 00:31:43:18 - 00:31:45:17 Speaker 2 About the creation of games. 00:31:45:19 - 00:31:51:02 Speaker 1 About gaming as the industry or the creation of games or, yeah, any of it. 00:31:51:04 - 00:32:11:16 Speaker 2 It's a little hard right now because everything that I kind of, you know, grew up on kind of seems to be phasing out like there used to be websites like game trailers. It doesn't exist anymore. Game magazines are kind of going the way of the dodo now. It's I don't know, I mean, really YouTube and watching certain streamers. 00:32:11:16 - 00:32:30:08 Speaker 2 I mean, at first the idea of watching somebody play a video game was weird to me. But, you know, a good streamer will make it fun and interact. It's kind of almost like you're watching them and playing along with them. I think that's a good way to kind of get maybe some kind of, you know, exposure with gaming is in the industry. 00:32:30:10 - 00:32:59:13 Speaker 2 As far as the creative side, I might say YouTube as well. I think YouTube is that perfect platform for, in my opinion, like, you know, if you want to learn about doing animation and stuff like that and you don't want to, you know, you know, actually enroll into a school yet, you just want to kind of play around with it and learn there's thousands of great tutorials professionally made and that can really teach you, you know, or get your feet wet and exploring the, the game industry. 00:32:59:13 - 00:33:01:18 Speaker 2 You know, and whatever it is that you want to do. 00:33:01:18 - 00:33:28:05 Speaker 1 It's amazing. Well, thank you for that. And the last question, I mean, there is it's obvious the industry is changing as rapidly as the rest of the world, if not faster, because there's that confluence of all pop culture plus technology, etc.. One last question, which is always the question I end every interview on the Future of XYZ with, what is your greatest hope in 25 years? 00:33:28:05 - 00:33:34:18 Speaker 1 So in 2050, for the future of gaming. 00:33:34:20 - 00:33:40:13 Speaker 2 I guess that's a good question. I’ve never thought of that. But five years from now. 00:33:40:15 - 00:33:44:00 Speaker 1 25 years from now. 00:33:44:02 - 00:34:10:20 Speaker 2 I think I would just hope that it's still around for one, right? I hope it does. And I hope this is not like one of those yesteryear kind of fads. Gaming, as you know, was a thing. Two I just hope that, you know, the spirit of artists are still alive in these games. I hope it doesn't become too commercialized, to where it's all about trying to hit you with the dopamine and make people spend money all day, every day. 00:34:11:01 - 00:34:33:06 Speaker 2 I hope it's still a work of art. I hope it's still acknowledged as a work of art, and it doesn't mean a work of art can’t make money. It's just I just hope that there's still room for for those creatives to really bring forth these, you know, very interesting projects that we can all experience. And hopefully, you know, they get VR right, you know, we can actually. 00:34:33:08 - 00:34:35:12 Speaker 1 We get we can get on the headset next time, Andrew. 00:34:36:15 - 00:34:42:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, hopefully, because I mean, I would like to actually be able to explore, you know, those kind of digital worlds, but. 00:34:42:07 - 00:34:45:01 Speaker 1 The gaming in the metaverse. 00:34:45:03 - 00:35:07:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I mean I’ve tried it a little bit, but I think it's pretty cool. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, I wonder, I don't know, 25 years is a long time because when you think about 25 years ago, you know, video games look completely different. The industry looked completely different. So it's like, you know, and as technology has like a kind of a curve, we're it kind of just gets faster and faster and faster. 00:35:07:12 - 00:35:11:21 Speaker 2 Then 25 years from now is like, I have no idea what gaming would be like. 00:35:11:23 - 00:35:16:02 Speaker 1 We might be on spaceships playing the game. 00:35:16:04 - 00:35:26:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, on some Jetsons type stuff. So I just yeah, as long as the creative, the art, it's like the creators are able to create. I think that's what I hope for. 00:35:26:15 - 00:35:52:02 Speaker 1 I love that as a, as a vision. I feel like that could be like the sum hope of almost every single one of these episodes of Future of XYZ since being presented by iF Design because it's all around these these amazing topics that have real commercial impact. But ultimately, you know, the reason that they exist in the form that they do and have been so celebrated is because of the artistry, because of the creative talent behind them, because of the imagination. 00:35:52:04 - 00:35:54:06 Speaker 1 So I love that. 00:35:54:08 - 00:35:57:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree. 00:35:57:05 - 00:36:04:18 Speaker 1 Andrew, it's been pleasure speaking with you on Future of XYZ, the Future of Gaming. Thank you so much for joining us. 00:36:04:20 - 00:36:08:09 Speaker 2 And thank you for having me. I loved it. It was great. 00:36:08:11 - 00:36:25:19 Speaker 1 And everyone watching and listening, you know where to find us and be sure to leave us a five star review so that more people can find out about topics like future of gaming and everything else that we have coming in season seven. Andrew, we’ll speak again soon and thank you all for participating. 00:36:25:21 - 00:36:27:03 Speaker 2 Thank you, Lisa.