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Diogenes Club | E1 - Intelligent Masculinity · Diogenes Club

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't complain about yingling.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: We used to drink that in college all the time.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Carnegie Mellon for college the first time.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 0:10
  Yeah,
• 0:10
  I have a degree in music theory and composition from Carnegie
• 0:13
  Mellon.
• 0:16
  And I took private voice lessons and I was in the advanced
• 0:22
  choir and I was part of
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: the choral program.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I almost completed my minor in audio engineering and sound design,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: but I had burned myself out on other classes.
• 0:35
  So I was so freaking tired because I completed college
• 0:38
  basically in two and a half
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: years instead of four.
• 0:42
  And the only reason that I stayed there was because my degree
• 0:46
  required that I have
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: four years of private music theory lessons.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 0:51
  and so i stayed and i did like my final year at college i was
• 0:55
  playing rack my one
• 0:56
  of my courses was racquetball and i was like yes it's like it
• 1:01
  was like 10 30 on a
• 1:02
  thursday and i played racquetball as a kid whitest person sport
• 1:07
  ever like outside
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: of lacrosse
• 1:11
  pickleball might be wider pickleball might be a wider sport um
• 1:16
  but not in a bad way
• 1:17
  it's just like an amazing just like fun little tennis style
• 1:21
  thing it's just a white
• 1:23
  dude thing with not too much athleticism required like we're
• 1:27
  not the kind that
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: necessarily is actually not true
• 1:33
  you can hurt yourself really bad yeah fast is it is it mostly
• 1:38
  like hip injuries
• 1:39
  that you get from pickleball hillys hip core quad knee
• 1:46
  everything getting into my
• 1:47
  late 30s i'm the achilles and all that i'm worried about that
• 1:51
  quick movement and
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: everything just takes one pop your money for it yeah
• 1:58
  yeah yeah i've had my knee do some weird so i know how that
• 2:03
  feels i felt my knee
• 2:04
  the tendon right at my knee on the inside go like this and like
• 2:10
  that's like a
• 2:10
  normal experience for me nowadays and i'm just like you know
• 2:13
  what as long as it
• 2:14
  doesn't pop i'm okay as long as that part doesn't pop i'm i'm
• 2:20
  okay lateral ligament
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it doesn't have any support.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, my knee's all jacked up.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've had,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: I had two surgeries on my left knee in less than a year this past,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: last year,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: basically,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: and then one on my right knee.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm up to four knee surgeries so far in my life.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Getting old sucks, man.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: My first knee surgery was at, like,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was 19 or 20 when I had my first.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: I injured it playing soccer.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Walter, how old are you?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: 50.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am the grandpa of the group here.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 55.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I would have guessed younger.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would have guessed younger.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: South Florida living.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is what happens when you see the sun.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's got the tan.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I got the tan going, the healthy skin.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: These Wisconsin winters take it out of you.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in Michigan,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: so I know it's like...
• 3:19
  You get that time of year where you grab the steering wheel and
• 3:21
  your knuckles start
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: to bleed because it's so dry.
• 3:25
  I enjoy getting up out of bed in the morning and not having to
• 3:28
  worry about what
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: clothing I have to put on each day.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: It appears like we're frozen in Substack.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if people are hearing us, but
• 3:42
  i'm gonna ask if can y'all hear us but oh okay it seems like
• 3:46
  they can hear us but
• 3:47
  maybe our our pictures are in weird spots so try not to make
• 3:51
  too many faces no
• 3:54
  we'll be all right i think we'll be all right yeah as long as
• 3:58
  they can hear us yeah
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: like just put this in the background just
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: While you're driving,
• 4:05
  listen to four dudes talk about a bro show and do some
• 4:08
  intelligent masculinity
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: today.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because Evan had a pretty shitty fucking day yesterday.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Dude.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: A pretty shitty day.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty shitty last couple days.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So basically the rundown for everybody is...
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm an army veteran.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have my issues and everything.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I will fully admit that I am not easy to deal with.
• 4:35
  Mental health struggles are not the prettiest thing in the
• 4:38
  world most times.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And those can cause stressors in a marriage.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: I will be the first to admit that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And but.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: The wife and I had had regular problems with that and everything.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you could say normal screaming matches and stuff.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: As normal as you can get.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought that things had been good and everything.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've made a concerted effort that I go to therapy.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I go to my medication management appointments.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I do...
• 5:12
  like everything that I can to be like,
• 5:14
  how are we going to make us better?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: How are we going to make our lives better?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I went back to school, like I'm doing writing.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I found something that fulfilled me and everything.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: But there was always this kind of like,
• 5:26
  like I was super excited about it and I was super excited about
• 5:30
  getting better and
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: everything.
• 5:32
  And it was kind of like I would get like taken down a notch to
• 5:36
  where I could be at
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: that same level and stuff.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if I was just caught up in...
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, everything's going to be great.
• 5:44
  Like,
• 5:44
  you know,
• 5:45
  we've built this life together and everything's going to be
• 5:47
  okay.
• 5:48
  And,
• 5:49
  but I,
• 5:50
  I mean,
• 5:51
  I guess she just wasn't happy and wasn't prepared to deal with
• 5:55
  like,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: the reality that was starting to show.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:00
  Like I was getting settled in my own way where I think like
• 6:03
  when I was going back
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: to school,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: she was expecting like,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to get this.
• 6:08
  He's going to go out into the world and get this job and like
• 6:11
  work for the state or
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: something or he'll become a lawyer and I'll get to stay at home.
• 6:17
  And it's it's my turn to stay at home now and hang out and take
• 6:20
  care of the pets
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: because I mostly did school from home and everything.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And throughout this entire time,
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: She was stressed about money and everything,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: rightfully so,
• 6:29
  because I'm getting my disability and just whatever BAH from
• 6:33
  school and stuff.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm rambling, but so... Get it out.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: There was this expectation of like...
• 6:43
  Evan's gonna get a master's degree and I'm gonna be taken care
• 6:47
  of and like we're
• 6:47
  gonna sell this house that we have right now and we're gonna
• 6:50
  move into a better
• 6:51
  house and I'm gonna get to stay at home with the pets because I
• 6:54
  mostly did school
• 6:55
  from home and everything and I was at home all the time took
• 6:58
  care of the pets took
• 6:59
  care of everything around the house like laundry cleaning all
• 7:02
  that stuff well she
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: worked and
• 7:06
  at times two part-time jobs to make it full-time but mostly
• 7:10
  worked part-time and
• 7:11
  then she was going to school the last couple years to like get
• 7:14
  into nursing school
• 7:15
  and everything but things had been like off iffy and stuff but
• 7:23
  lately they seemed
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: fine and on what's the 16th so two days ago that would be tuesday
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: woke up like a perfectly normal morning and everything was good.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I, we had talked about what we were going to do today.
• 7:41
  Like I had some writing to do and she was going to go do
• 7:44
  Christmas shopping and stuff.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I,
• 7:48
  she was downstairs in the living room and I don't ever go
• 7:52
  through her phone or
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: anything like that's not,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: it was never a concern to me at all.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: a trustful person and everything.
• 8:02
  And,
• 8:02
  but I grabbed her phone to like,
• 8:04
  you know,
• 8:04
  the notes section on the iPhone.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was going to create like a little note in there.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I want to XL red Yeti cup and I want some shirts,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: make sure you get the tall sizes.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, what do you do?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And my fucking heart dropped.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the immediate, like I've seen this on social media before.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know this reaction.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know what's going on.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait, I was like, this can't possibly be right.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't do this.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know things have been bad,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: and then she started getting more and more anxious and everything.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I like went to the text messages.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, there's nothing in there.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing in there.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing in there.
• 8:52
  And so I went into the messenger,
• 8:53
  like the Instagram,
• 8:55
  Facebook messenger,
• 8:56
  and it was like,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I saw something like, are you sure he's not going to find out?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yo, what the fuck?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything I've been doing.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And this is when it all came out.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: everything I've been doing.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I quit drinking for you.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I went to therapy for you.
• 9:14
  I went to TMS treatments for you to try and get better and make
• 9:18
  myself happier and do better.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I went back to college after I got out of the army.
• 9:23
  I got a master's degree because an undergrad degree wasn't
• 9:27
  going to be enough for
• 9:28
  me to get the kind of job that was going to change our lives
• 9:31
  and give us upward
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: mobility and everything.
• 9:34
  So as all this is happening,
• 9:37
  yes,
• 9:37
  I'm struggling with mental health things,
• 9:39
  but
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in a marriage,
• 9:42
  those are the kind of things that you nurture and take care of
• 9:44
  because you see the
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: potential in somebody.
• 9:47
  You see the potential in me busting my ass to try and give us
• 9:51
  upward mobility.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she, it was just, no, no, I never cheated on you, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just talking this and that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: That part, I believe.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: That part, I do believe.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's like I start questioning everything and I'm like,
• 10:13
  so you're just running around like a whore on me and all that I
• 10:16
  freak out.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But then like I noticed myself starting to freak out.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I call my parents like the same thing you were talking about,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Eric,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: is that like I was like,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 10:29
  I have to be safe right now and I have to have somebody like
• 10:31
  watching what I do to
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: make sure that I'm OK.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But then she... She's like, I can't fucking do this anymore.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm leaving.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: She takes the only car we have,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: leaves,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: turns the location services off and everything,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: and is like...
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Then texts me like three hours later and is like,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: you can pick up...
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: You and your parents can pick up the car here.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was at the police department downtown.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she...
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: had sent messages to her friends and stuff that like,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm some monster and she had to leave and everything.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she fucking took off to California.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like she, like her family sent her money and she went back.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's staying with like her brother right now.
• 11:21
  Like I texted her this morning and was like,
• 11:22
  just let me know you're okay.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, I'm with Robbie.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you don't just get to fucking pick up and leave.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:34
  Leave me holding the bag because things got too tough for you
• 11:40
  or like Evan wasn't enough to do.
• 11:42
  If Evan's too much to deal with,
• 11:44
  if I'm fucking too much to deal with,
• 11:46
  tell me that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Have a conversation with me and be like, this isn't working.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like we need to take steps for us to move on.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm perfectly fine with that.
• 11:54
  But I feel betrayed and I felt especially betrayed yesterday
• 12:00
  because it's like,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I put fucking like, I'm not perfect.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am not perfect by any means.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: We gotten in fights and I named call and all this other shit.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not perfect.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have issues and stuff,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: but I,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: where I get frustrated is I did everything to like,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: try and make us better.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:25
  And then to just get bailed on after that,
• 12:27
  it's fucking heartbreaking,
• 12:28
  man.
• 12:30
  And you get stuck with a 2,600 square foot house and you're all
• 12:34
  alone and you've
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: got fucking animals.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're down to one source of income.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you've still got all the same bills and shit.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: do I be vindictive and protect myself and wait and,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:52
  take legal routes because I've been abandoned or do I try and
• 12:56
  make this as
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: empathetic as possible?
• 13:00
  It's hence the,
• 13:02
  hence the need for the,
• 13:03
  hence the need for the cast today.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Why we came together today.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So let me ask a question.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: How many, how many years were you married?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be 10 years and three days.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then together, come on together.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little over that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like we knew each other, um,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a complicated situation.
• 13:30
  So like I grew up in a small town in central California,
• 13:35
  like my parents were military.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: We lived at the Air Force Base there.
• 13:38
  She grew up in that same town,
• 13:40
  but went to high school after her parents got divorced.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: She went to high school down in Orange County.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: She moved back to that town after high school.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's when we met and everything.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: But we were like in different social circles, kind of.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: After I had joined the army, that's like when we got together.
• 13:57
  So like five,
• 13:58
  six years later,
• 13:59
  and then we got married like the next year.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we had known each other and like known like who the other person was,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: but not like the intricate details.
• 14:11
  We definitely jumped in fast into the marriage and relationship
• 14:15
  and everything.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the story of a lot of army marriages at the beginning.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know my wife and I had been married for just over 10 years,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: going on 11 in a couple months.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we met in the army too,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: or we met,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: we were both in the army and we didn't,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think we had a longer engagement than most.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Partially because I got deployed for six months of our engagement,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: which,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: shit happens.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it sounds like there were already issues for you.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it was...
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: it,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: it feels to me,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: one of the things I've noticed,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: and I like making these sort of like counseling sessions sometimes too.
• 15:05
  Like I like,
• 15:06
  I go through a lot of therapy,
• 15:07
  so why not have group therapy with my friends?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: and without a therapist where somebody can't tell me,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I can't talk about things discuss this later or repost it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: So with,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: All of our permissions, we're talking about it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: It needs to be an hour.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I charge $5 a month, but it's on a 60% sale right now.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm free.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Walter charges, you know, what?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Pay what you can is what I. Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Pay what you can basically.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: For all of us.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually the cheapest therapist here.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm like, you know, I'm the one with the medical degree.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't have a medical degree.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: I have a music degree and a computer science degree.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Which is just as important.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Creativity is really important.
• 15:52
  And I think it's just the big thing that I'm getting out of
• 15:55
  this is there was some
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: issues before,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: but it sounds like you're,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: to me,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: as a friend,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: it sounds like you're putting a lot of still emphasis on what you did.
• 16:06
  for both of you rather than what you did for yourself yeah and
• 16:10
  i think there's a i
• 16:11
  think you need to focus on too is like you did all of those
• 16:15
  things not just because
• 16:16
  of her or for your relationship but because you wanted and
• 16:20
  needed to do them and
• 16:21
  they're bettering you um and i think right now is is really a
• 16:25
  big thing about that
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: it's like you're coming on here being
• 16:29
  willing to be vulnerable with us and all the people who are
• 16:33
  listening to us and
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: talk about this.
• 16:37
  That takes a lot to be able to unpack this and talk about it
• 16:42
  rationally in a wise
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: mind,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: as my therapist would call it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Evan, you smile because it sounds like you know what I'm talking about.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got therapy at 3 o'clock this afternoon.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to kick it up to like twice a week, trust me.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's, I mean, yeah, that's amazing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Walter, step in.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you said that,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Nick,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: because,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: and I've dealt with depression and,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 17:06
  been married a long time and there's always moments you have to
• 17:09
  go through.
• 17:09
  And I found it's so easy to get caught up in that thinking
• 17:12
  where you're saying,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: I did this for you.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not really true.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 17:15
  you did do these things for yourself and that you should be
• 17:17
  applauded for working
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: on yourself and make yourself better.
• 17:20
  But if you allow yourself,
• 17:21
  and this is my experience with depression talking and
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Depression is when you just fall into that dark,
• 17:26
  dark place where you're thinking these things that just keep
• 17:29
  building on themselves
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: in a bad way.
• 17:31
  So it's really important for you at this moment to try to avoid
• 17:35
  those patterns,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: and think about things that are a little bit more like,
• 17:38
  and you should be proud of yourself for the things that you've
• 17:41
  done and say,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've done these.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's possible,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: we should say,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 17:45
  and thank you for being a person in my life who helped motivate
• 17:48
  me to do that,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: even if this relationship has ended now.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I also wanted to add too,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Whether it has or not, maybe it hasn't.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's good to keep that possibility.
• 17:56
  But I also want to add,
• 17:58
  this year has been a pressure cooker for everybody.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure for your wife, too.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Women have been just under attack.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Constant fucking attack by this government.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: The fucking asshole in charge.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you can blame that guy because he's created this situation.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Relationships are hard under ideal situations.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: We have a guy like that who attacks people.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then on top of that, the pressure of the holidays is extreme.
• 18:23
  and so yeah i would just my first thing i'm thinking is like
• 18:26
  just try to get
• 18:26
  through to the new year think about things that would make you
• 18:29
  happy i mean what
• 18:30
  would make you happy right now like putting the whole
• 18:31
  relationship aside focus on
• 18:33
  your own health and happiness for this moment going to the gym
• 18:35
  going for walks if
• 18:37
  you like playing video game whatever you like to do but just be
• 18:38
  happy for a little
• 18:39
  while kind of let things simmer down and then maybe kind of
• 18:42
  revisit so those are my
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: first thoughts as as we get started now
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: that's the, that's the main thing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the battle with mental health.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:51
  Is like,
• 18:51
  I have these moments of like,
• 18:54
  dude,
• 18:54
  you,
• 18:55
  you've built this fucking life for yourself.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you have these opportunities, you made this shit happen.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe she just wasn't ready to do that with you.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she wasn't capable of doing it with you.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know what I mean?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got to, I recognize, and I saw it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm not lying to myself, I saw that,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was making last time, you know, we should get him back.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be right back.
• 19:22
  I was making like upward moves and stuff and like trying to get
• 19:30
  out of the
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: situation I was in and trying to feel better and everything.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't force somebody else to deal with their trauma, too.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm proud of myself for getting better.
• 19:47
  I'm proud of myself for working on myself and doing the work
• 19:51
  and all that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Walter,
• 19:53
  you make a great point is that you just you've got to keep
• 19:56
  telling yourself that
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: because.
• 19:59
  keeping those thoughts because i'm good as long as i'm talking
• 20:02
  to people i'm
• 20:04
  talking about things or thinking about things that are like
• 20:07
  making me happy and
• 20:08
  stuff yeah i just that dark place nothing good is going to come
• 20:13
  from that dark
• 20:14
  place so there's a there's a point and i know i know where
• 20:17
  evan's been because i've
• 20:18
  been through this you know i was divorced you know 14 years ago
• 20:22
  and was very
• 20:23
  fortunate to find my my true love second time around and she's
• 20:26
  amazing and
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: When you're going through this process right now,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Evan,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: the biggest danger is kind of where Walter was talking about.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: He was talking about depression, but I like to call it quicksand.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good word.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a mental quicksand.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're not in a depressive state.
• 20:45
  It's situational anxiety and situational depression,
• 20:47
  but it's really what it is.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's self-induced quicksand.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because you start going down and the harder you try to swim,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: the harder you try to get yourself out of it,
• 20:57
  the deeper you sink and there's nothing to grab onto and you
• 21:00
  feel like you're alone
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: and there's nobody there to help pull.
• 21:03
  And all you really need is somebody to throw you a vine or a
• 21:06
  branch and just to
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: help pull you up enough so you can pull yourself out of it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:12
  That's why I had messaged Nick yesterday and we suggested that
• 21:16
  we do this.
• 21:16
  We'd be that branch in that vine for you to pull you out of
• 21:19
  whatever quicksand you
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: were going into yesterday and to find that healthy space.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think...
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think right now you're dealing with betrayal,
• 21:28
  which is literally like the worst emotive issue to deal with in
• 21:33
  a relationship
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: because it was somebody that you had entrusted your entire life to,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: your monetary life,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: your psychological life,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: your physical life,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: your emotive life.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, families are intertwined.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, you know, it's a destructive event, you know.
• 21:52
  And you may not know all of the facts of the infidelity at this
• 21:56
  point,
• 21:56
  and that's okay.
• 21:59
  But the fact that there was infidelity and she found solace or
• 22:04
  emotional support
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: with somebody else,
• 22:07
  is not your fault that's hers okay from from a guy's
• 22:13
  perspective and apologize to
• 22:15
  chat world with all the women out there you know at this point
• 22:19
  evan needs to be his
• 22:21
  own man and he's got to stand on his own feet which you've been
• 22:24
  doing that if your
• 22:26
  wife didn't understand that about you then she never really got
• 22:29
  you in the first
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: place and she never truly understood you to begin with and
• 22:36
  I think it's real important going through this process that you
• 22:41
  not so much look
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: introvertedly at everything.
• 22:44
  It's not about you,
• 22:45
  you know,
• 22:45
  that it wasn't,
• 22:46
  it wasn't you that caused this.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cause you had,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: you had done all the things you're supposed to do as a husband,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: to try to make the relationship better and to improve your marriage,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: improve your,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: your financial standing,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: your financial life,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: you're trying to move forward.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And yet the emotional,
• 23:07
  discharge,
• 23:08
  not discharge,
• 23:09
  but the emotional betrayal is actually worse than physical
• 23:12
  betrayal.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:15
  And maybe I'm hoping that maybe you and your wife will get to a
• 23:17
  point where you can
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: do the counseling together and try to,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: work on your marriage and rebuild that trust again,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: hopefully,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 23:24
  but that's gotta be decision that the two of you literally need
• 23:27
  to get to,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: which you both need therapy.
• 23:30
  I mean,
• 23:30
  it's,
• 23:30
  it's to get past this point and you can't do it by yourself.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing like my therapist told me like with, cause yeah,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I started seeing like a new therapist the end of last year,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: somebody that like really deals with PTSD and trauma and everything.
• 23:50
  And she was telling me that once you get to about 35,
• 23:53
  there's like a road that you can take.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can either
• 23:58
  deal with your shit like trauma that you've had and everything
• 24:01
  and you can learn
• 24:02
  process through it and or you're going to take the road of
• 24:07
  you're going to keep
• 24:08
  protecting yourself and you're going to keep like practicing
• 24:11
  like burying things
• 24:13
  and usually that ends with like addiction further problems
• 24:18
  everything you know what
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: i mean and that scared the shit out of me man because
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I, as soon as I got out of the army at, I believe 20, 16, I was 28.
• 24:35
  When I got out of the army and it was like six months of I
• 24:40
  recognized like,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: fuck,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing good.
• 24:42
  And then went to therapy and I've recognized that I'm able to
• 24:49
  process things a lot better.
• 24:51
  I'm able to recognize my emotions a lot better and what's
• 24:54
  affecting them and stuff.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't really willing to do that.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:59
  I don't,
• 25:00
  people,
• 25:00
  all people are different and deal with trauma in different ways
• 25:04
  and everything.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I started seeing that the gap between like the two of us and stuff.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, like I said earlier, you can't force somebody to do it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: We all grow emotionally at different paces and
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: It does sound like you were doing a robust,
• 25:27
  and I'm having a side conversation too with one of the folks in
• 25:30
  the chat who's also
• 25:32
  going through mindfulness practices and therapies that coincide
• 25:37
  with the therapies
• 25:38
  that I've gone through and that I know Evan has gone through
• 25:41
  because all Army or
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: all VA therapies are the same across the board.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: They use the same tool.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: And
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Once you find a good therapist,
• 25:52
  one of the things I've found is you're finally able to talk and
• 25:58
  open and like,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: It took me a long time.
• 26:03
  I went through individual therapy and group therapy for two and
• 26:08
  a half years.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting you said 35 because I'm 35 this year,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: turning 36,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: and I have made a lot of really powerful emotional growth.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, changes since I like, since the middle of this year.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: So something about 35 seemed to kick.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm hoping.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've gone through a big life event to not the same as yours,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: but I lost my job on the 4th of July.
• 26:41
  And I went from having I am I was the sole provider outside of
• 26:46
  our disability
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: benefits because we're both disabled veterans.
• 26:52
  And I lost that job six months ago and we're relying still on
• 26:57
  income and savings
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: that I had to get us through until.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: We basically switch roles in our house.
• 27:07
  My wife is going to become the breadwinner and is opening a
• 27:11
  business that I will
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: say nothing else about.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And she's going to do an amazing job at it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Her and her business partner are going to do a fucking amazing job at it.
• 27:23
  And we're lucky because we emotionally grew together because we
• 27:28
  went through the
• 27:29
  same therapy at the same time in different groups with
• 27:33
  different therapists.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: And we were able to both expressively grow.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it takes two to tango is what they say.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so if one of your partners in the dance is not
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Ready to learn the steps or ready to put in the same effort to learn it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: it can fall apart,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: unfortunately,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Beth had said something in the chat that I wanted to touch upon.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's something that I had to learn, you know, when I was 40.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Really,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: it's I mean,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: there seems to be this thing in our generation,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: like with just men between 30 and 40.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's our time to mature women mature at 20 to 30.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we like because you know,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: we have that we have that Y chromosome that gets in our way sometimes.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 28:24
  but Beth had said something like she's on her second marriage
• 28:26
  and she's been 29
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: years and it's,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: it's really,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: truly my marriage second time around has all been about communication.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: but on the male side and about this intelligent masculinity,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having to learn at 55 and I'm still learning because I'm,
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: I've got that Y chromosome,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 28:47
  that it's with women it's about not talking like just community
• 28:53
  like the talking is
• 28:54
  about communication but it's really truly listening it's about
• 28:59
  listening to what my
• 29:01
  wife says and having that validated by her that i'm validating
• 29:07
  her comments are
• 29:08
  just as important as my what i'm doing and what i'm doing in my
• 29:11
  life and and
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: what she's doing in her life is just as valid as important,
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: regardless of who's bringing in more money.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 29:22
  I think that has been the glue of our marriage is our ability
• 29:25
  to communicate and
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: our ability to,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: but mostly my ability to apologize.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: But it's accountability is there.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's the big accountability is a big word.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, accountability or affordability.
• 29:37
  accountability you said apologizing well authenticity but money
• 29:42
  is it just a
• 29:42
  constant pressure for everybody too that's always that's in
• 29:45
  every relationship so
• 29:46
  yeah it's that's the monetary things will always destroy a
• 29:48
  marriage if you don't
• 29:49
  talk and you have to it's it's but i i like that beth brought
• 29:53
  that up in the chat
• 29:53
  so thank you beth and everybody else i think melissa brought it
• 29:56
  up too and and i
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: think sushi did as well so yeah
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: and there's so many people in our chat giving you a lot of love,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Evan,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: and just giving this fur baby.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there you go.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Those dogs are depression sinks.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: They just take the sad feelings right out of you.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: She has been... That's my baby, and she's been... Honestly, she hasn't...
• 30:24
  been upset she's more been like oh i got the spot in the bed
• 30:28
  now like yeah oh no
• 30:32
  this is such a this is a hard conversation some i've what i've
• 30:35
  found in my life is
• 30:36
  that you know sometimes relationships you love people very much
• 30:39
  and then they just
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's as long as the relationship was supposed to last.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we kind of think,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: if it's a 10-year marriage and that's what it was supposed to be,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: then that's a success.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: And we can't act like, oh, it should have been this.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: It is what it is.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you were with this person in a time of need.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then you reached a point where you needed something else.
• 30:58
  And sometimes we provoke an end to things without a full
• 31:03
  awareness of what we're doing.
• 31:04
  I like to talk of the difference between our conscious mind and
• 31:06
  our subconscious mind.
• 31:08
  but there have been times when i've wanted something to end the
• 31:11
  relationship to end
• 31:12
  so i you know created a situation where the relationship ended
• 31:16
  and it wasn't
• 31:16
  because i was trying to hurt somebody it was just because
• 31:19
  you're like this this i
• 31:20
  have to get out of this like some other part of you takes
• 31:22
  control so it's not and
• 31:24
  it's important for you to know that because it's not a
• 31:26
  deliberate choice on her
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: part to hurt you
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that I'm in I'm in distress.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how to handle this.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: This thing happens.
• 31:33
  It creates some separation that some part of me that's not
• 31:35
  fully in control thought I needed.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's why it's just sort of like,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: all right,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: let's just take time,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: have some grace,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: always avoid the passive vengeance.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 31:44
  we can always get to these relationships and do it in a way
• 31:46
  that's positive and
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: that's best.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this might end up being the best thing for you, too.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: And if you guys are saying, hey, let's sell this house.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now let's take a year.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you can go travel, go travel, and we'll see what they like.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's all kinds of things that could happen.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of them are really positive.
• 32:00
  And there's a chance where you guys can come back together and
• 32:02
  be a stronger couple
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: and actually help each other and work those things out.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or it's like, OK, we can respect, but respectfully separate.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot of good things besides.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it's so easy to dwell on all the negative possibilities.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: There's an infinite world of possibilities of what could happen here.
• 32:20
  so allow yourself you know permission to dwell on the hopeful
• 32:24
  ones you know and
• 32:25
  that's really the key just because these next few weeks are the
• 32:28
  critical weeks as
• 32:29
  you adapt it always takes a while to adapt to the new it's like
• 32:31
  oh you know water
• 32:33
  bucket of water right in the face oh just wait for a second and
• 32:36
  then it's like okay
• 32:37
  now things make sense once you've had a couple nights to sleep
• 32:39
  on it and kind of
• 32:40
  adapt to your new reality but you can also grieve and and allow
• 32:44
  yourself to cry and
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: be sad and you have to changing yes
• 32:48
  And you have to,
• 32:48
  you got to let yourself go through the process of it's like,
• 32:51
  it's a loss.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Your marriage is potentially dying, right?
• 32:55
  You're going to go through your stages and it's important to
• 32:58
  embrace the stages and
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: to work through your grief process because otherwise it becomes self,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: you're going to wind up derailing and self-destruct that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not the pathway we ever want you to see.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want you to go down there.
• 33:11
  The fucking,
• 33:12
  the power of emotionally intelligent men to like lift each
• 33:17
  other up.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:19
  It's just like,
• 33:20
  this is such a contrast to,
• 33:23
  cause I was thinking about it last night.
• 33:25
  I wrote like a little piece that I'll put out later and I was
• 33:27
  like questioning
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: mental health and like how we grew up.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: especially as millennials,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: like kind of at the start of the internet and everything,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: you grow up learning to repress your feelings and like the bullying,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: even within friend groups,
• 33:42
  when your friends call you a pussy for acting feminine or like
• 33:47
  expressing emotion
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: or anything like that.
• 33:50
  And I was thinking about like Joe Rogan and like those types of
• 33:55
  dudes last night.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like, if I would have gotten on like the,
• 34:02
  i don't know twitch or some shit like that and they would have
• 34:04
  been like you
• 34:05
  fucking pussy you're crying about your divorce and everything
• 34:08
  but instead i got a
• 34:11
  bunch of emotionally intelligent dudes helping me out and
• 34:13
  honestly getting me
• 34:14
  through this shit because it is such a stark contrast of like
• 34:19
  how things are and
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: how things should be
• 34:21
  yeah and this is something like i saw this with my dad when he
• 34:25
  divorced my mom and
• 34:26
  so he's like bashing her and you're just like that's still my
• 34:29
  mom you asshole and
• 34:31
  it's like i'm still half that person you know and so it's just
• 34:33
  something you always
• 34:34
  got to keep in mind and i mean it's just bashing the other
• 34:39
  person doesn't help you
• 34:40
  know because you don't know what's going on there either so
• 34:42
  like that's just off
• 34:43
  limits you know that's off limits and we we help ourselves we
• 34:45
  do positive things
• 34:47
  and it's like it's the end of a chapter but it's no different
• 34:49
  than like moving from
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: an apartment to a different apartment
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: You'd have to be like,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 34:53
  my only the only good possible life I could have had was back
• 34:56
  in that apartment.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's like that was great.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: I have good memories from that.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm in this new apartment.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it's exciting,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 35:02
  because what you are in now is because you already told us
• 35:05
  you're not you weren't
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: particularly happy with your life up till now.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously there was things that she was having distress to.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: So now if something is happening,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: there's an initiating event,
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: we're going to make a real change here.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and that's what happens to all people.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I can't take this anymore.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: I got to do something.
• 35:22
  And unfortunately,
• 35:22
  in the worst cases,
• 35:23
  people do things that can't be reversed.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's not this case.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that's another thing to celebrate.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 35:30
  we're not in the generation of you stay together through thick
• 35:33
  and thin and be
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: married for 70 years.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: That generation...
• 35:36
  That was a different lifespan,
• 35:38
  different century,
• 35:40
  different expectations.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be quiet and miserable.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 35:45
  And we're totally,
• 35:47
  you know,
• 35:48
  I'm like Nick's having his 11th wedding anniversary.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: I just had my 10th, you know.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you will find happiness again.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's there.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: And by being more emotionally open,
• 36:01
  I think that that definitely draws the right type of person to
• 36:06
  be attracted to you.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: and,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 36:10
  I'm hoping that you'll always have a civil relationship with
• 36:13
  your ex-wife.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: We always hope that.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, with my ex-wife, that's not happening.
• 36:18
  and what it is right and you know we just we do the best we can
• 36:25
  each day and we
• 36:26
  can't predict tomorrow we can't change the past there's an old
• 36:28
  saying you can't put
• 36:29
  the back in the horse right right but you can make smarter you
• 36:35
  know i always tell
• 36:36
  my patients like you have a choice to make right you can choose
• 36:39
  to have a decision
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: that has a good outcome
• 36:43
  or you can make a decision that has a bad consequence i also
• 36:46
  have another famous
• 36:47
  saying is that sometimes no decision is the best decision yeah
• 36:51
  right and right now
• 36:53
  that's what you need to like don't make any major decisions
• 36:56
  right yeah calm calm
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: yeah yeah yeah this is well this is when you sit and you just
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Hang out.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're not a duck on the pond.
• 37:06
  Go watch the movies you want to watch because there's no
• 37:08
  discussion about the
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: remote control right now,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, turn on whatever you want.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: Go to the sport bars.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: I could just open these doors.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sing naked in the house.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Run around.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do what you want for a little while.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't had a night by myself in this house in...
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: at least like five years,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: like at least five years because she went home to a funeral a while back.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the thing that, yeah, no major decisions or anything.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing I'm trying to remember is
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Stay fucking mature and don't be petty.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let your internal feelings,
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: if you get into that quicksand mode,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: don't freak out and reach out for her as the lifeline.
• 37:59
  A thing that I did this morning that I was fucking nervous
• 38:02
  about it and it made me
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: feel better was I just text her and I said,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: just let me know you're okay.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I hadn't heard from her.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to get into anything else.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just let me know you're okay.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: She said she was with her brother.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And all right, I feel better now for the rest of the day.
• 38:18
  I know you're safe and you're with somebody who I know and who
• 38:23
  I know is like
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: taking care of you and stuff.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 38:28
  we can just fucking do our own thing right now and we can worry
• 38:33
  about the rest of
• 38:34
  the shit when it comes you know what i mean right to work this
• 38:37
  out you know you
• 38:38
  have a right to work it out and think about it for a while and
• 38:40
  that's really sweet
• 38:41
  what you just said i think that's a beautiful thing and just
• 38:44
  and that's the other
• 38:44
  there was this episode of northern exposure that comes to mind
• 38:47
  where in the show
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: but in the show,
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: he's had this long-term relationship,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: and then she leaves him for another man.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then she comes back like a couple years later,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: and she's just like,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry,
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't know why I'm here.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I don't know.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's like, well, we're not going to continue our relationship.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, well, I guess it was worthless for me to come here.
• 39:06
  And he says,
• 39:06
  no,
• 39:07
  no,
• 39:07
  you gave me back all those memories of those 10 years we had
• 39:10
  together.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: That I cut that off in my brain and now it's back,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 39:14
  and it's just I thought that was a really beautiful sentiment
• 39:17
  because it's like
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: this is a major part of your life.
• 39:18
  So the temptation is to just be like it was all that person's
• 39:21
  fault and just keep
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: on him and be angry.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing good is going to come out of that.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you're just saying, look, I care about you.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm you know, this this this wasn't going to work anymore or whatever.
• 39:32
  And it's like I still want the best for you and I still
• 39:34
  treasure those times we did
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: have together.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really positive place to be, I think.
• 39:38
  I also think you've already started the empathetic path that
• 39:41
  you were talking about
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: rather than the vindictive path or spiteful path.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's good.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: You'll feel better.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're going to feel a lot better because hate makes you mad.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: It just makes you angrier.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hate hurts.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things I found too.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it does.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things I found too is if you're in,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: at least for me,
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: what works in my marriage,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: other than the fact of communication,
• 40:06
  is we i realized and we talk about it this way is we don't each
• 40:12
  make each other
• 40:13
  happy we add to each other's happiness i independently make
• 40:18
  myself happy and my
• 40:20
  spouse and my kids add to that happiness and that's the it was
• 40:26
  a powerful like
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: small change in how we talked about it um
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it really helps,
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: like it really helps you because then you go into,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: especially when you start,
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: if you start meeting new people and you decide you want to move on.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: And like Walter said, you find a new apartment.
• 40:43
  But when you find that apartment,
• 40:45
  you're happy with yourself going into it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: The other person can see that and can and when you can express,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: you're just you're adding to my happiness.
• 40:56
  I just want you to be happy independently and I want us to be
• 40:59
  happy together where
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: we add and build onto it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like pets.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Pets are a great example of it because they just add to your happiness.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like my dogs, I've got three of them.
• 41:12
  I've got two of them laying down right now,
• 41:14
  right around me,
• 41:15
  just puddles of puppy.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And they add to my happiness.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Look at it.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't like cats, but look at how cute.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: Look at adorable cats.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Got the little black beard going on.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Got a New Hampshire shape on the face.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: She had him when we met.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I don't know what the fuck's going on, dude.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Pets feel it, too.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: They know something's up.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: And Beth says in our chat is you are at a fork.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can be the asshole that she's glad she left,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: or you can be the man that every woman will want.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Beth.
• 41:57
  And that's really that's and it's not even that you can be the
• 42:02
  person every friend
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: wants to and start there.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: And as a man,
• 42:08
  I found that's really hard to do sometimes for ourselves is
• 42:11
  give ourselves
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: permission to healthily move forward.
• 42:16
  by not holding on to the anger or the grudge or how can I be
• 42:22
  spiteful at this person?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Cause it does just, it just sucks at you.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: But Evan, don't get me wrong.
• 42:28
  You're going to have moments where you're going to have anger
• 42:31
  and you're going to
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: be spiteful and you're going to be,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: but allow yourself to do that because if you inhibit it,
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: then it comes back like 10 X and it gets,
• 42:40
  and that can manifest in really negative energy waves and
• 42:43
  decision-making.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: So
• 42:45
  When you feel angry,
• 42:46
  it's okay,
• 42:46
  but that's what your therapy sessions are for.
• 42:48
  That's where you want to get all that angst and anger out and
• 42:51
  get it out there in a
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: safe environment.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Are you a runner or anything like that, Evan?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Any sports?
• 42:59
  You know,
• 42:59
  that's the fucking frustrating thing is I used to be,
• 43:02
  but...
• 43:03
  Now's the time.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do it again.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: It'll make you feel a lot better.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: I run that anger.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can always go back to that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have to run through the aches and pains and everything.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Go on for like a two-hour one.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Listen,
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Evan,
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you,
• 43:17
  there's nothing like hitting a stupid yellow ball really hard
• 43:21
  at somebody else from
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: 14 feet away to get a lot of angst out,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: let me tell you.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I swear to God, if I end up a pickleball player because he
• 43:29
  Or do racquetball because you can stand like in a line and just
• 43:33
  smash this little
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: ball against the wall as hard as you fucking can.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Love racquetball.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, Walter.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 43:43
  I was just going to say my times of depression,
• 43:44
  just that positive action.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm making myself better.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going for a run.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm better now because of it.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like that little celebration of achievement.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Go do a 5K.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Sign up for a 5K or a 10K or something.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't have to win, but just go out.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that exercise is the best cure for what ails us.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: It flushes out all that energy.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: It changes your scenery.
• 44:03
  You get into that ocular flow where you're not staring at a
• 44:05
  computer screen.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just turn off all your devices for like the next two weeks too.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: That just makes you more depressed.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to say too,
• 44:12
  like the one thing with pickleball and why pickleball saved a
• 44:15
  lot of people in this
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: country during COVID.
• 44:18
  was because it gave them an out to get outside the house,
• 44:21
  be around other people.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a very social game.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be super competitive.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to play at a 5.0 PPR level and play pro.
• 44:30
  You can just go out and find a group of people that want to hit
• 44:32
  the ball around and
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: just have a good time.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the other thing I will say is I saw Dwayne Johnson does this.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And this is actually a really good idea.
• 44:41
  And I started doing it last night was I put my phone in
• 44:44
  airplane mode at night.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not going off.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: I, and it was honestly one of the better sleeps I've ever had.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 44:53
  and so I think we all need to kind of just do that quickie
• 44:56
  unplug for seven hours
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: every night and just for everybody.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember Nick,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: the other day we were talking,
• 45:03
  what was the one thing you asked me what I would change if I
• 45:04
  was King for a day?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was the first thing I said, remember what I said was mental health.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Did we, this is, we,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: We are a very ailing country.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: We don't need health and human services for four guys to do this.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Something just fell.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because I mentioned HHS.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's why.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'll pull it apart back there.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's a magic spell.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, my flag fell.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: He says the country's falling apart and the flag went down.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: And this is going to get a lot of laughs from a lot of people.
• 45:45
  But just when you have that urge,
• 45:46
  whatever,
• 45:47
  just do the opposite of POTUS.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:50
  Just give yourself a 10-second pause and be like,
• 45:52
  okay,
• 45:52
  what would Trump do?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then do the exact opposite, and you'll be fine.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be an asshole.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be an asshole.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be an asshole.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, going for a 10-minute walk, get outside, go for it.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know he doesn't do a 10-minute walk, let alone a two-minute walk.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: He's barely awake for 10 minutes.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: He slithers.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: He slithers like Jabba the Hutt.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: He calls Laura Looper or Caroline Levitt or something.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, gosh.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the –
• 46:17
  I'm incredibly lucky because I do have health care through the
• 46:20
  VA and I do have
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: therapy and medication management and stuff.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like Eric was just saying is like mental health in this country,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 46:31
  like what are what are the people doing that are in my position
• 46:36
  right now that
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: don't have.
• 46:39
  the means to have a therapist to get them to the point where
• 46:43
  they can talk to four
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: other three other guys online and stuff.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's guys that are scared and
• 46:50
  don't know what to do and usually they give in to the anger and
• 46:57
  the vengeance and
• 46:58
  stuff like that you know and it really affects our society yeah
• 47:02
  thank you for being
• 47:03
  brave and coming and talking that's so wonderful i mean it's
• 47:06
  and it's a tremendous
• 47:08
  example for other people who might be and might not quite be at
• 47:11
  that place where
• 47:11
  they can come and talk in a in a place like this so it's really
• 47:14
  great i think we
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: can change a lot this way
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this makes a,
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: so there's some of the comments is in our chat too,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: is this makes a big difference is it creates a space and a,
• 47:31
  feeling just an impression for other men specifically is that
• 47:37
  they can do this that
• 47:38
  they they're allowed to have their friends even if it's not in
• 47:41
  an online open forum
• 47:42
  like this you're allowed to have friends that you can talk to
• 47:46
  and talk about things
• 47:47
  and be okay with it and not judge each other and realize that
• 47:53
  we all have emotions
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: and it we we just need to let them out we just need to feel our feels and
• 48:02
  the point of the bro show is not exclusionary because we're the
• 48:17
  new manosphere this
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: type of thing is like what the new manosphere
• 48:22
  is like that's a big thing i'm trying to do with especially the
• 48:25
  sick of the shit
• 48:26
  publication side is make a manosphere that doesn't suck that
• 48:31
  isn't toxic to each
• 48:32
  other and is positive and builds empathy like it's built in
• 48:38
  it's part of what we do
• 48:39
  just because it makes us feel better and you should be okay
• 48:44
  admitting that you like
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: making yourself feel better so go do things that make you feel better
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like Ben and Jerry's.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Listen to what Ben and Jerry's had to say.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a Vermonter, so I'm going to promote Ben and Jerry's.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: So go buy their ice cream.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's fucking delicious.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: I used to thrive on that stuff when I was a kid.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: The Ben and Jerry's factory was only like 30 minutes away from us.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: So all my friends in high school.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: All my friends in high school worked there.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're out there swimming in the vats with the Oompa Loompas.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, my God.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: It sort of is.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: You walk home.
• 49:18
  They have a freezer that every employee can walk home with
• 49:24
  three pints a day of factory seconds.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we had freezers full of Ben and Jerry's growing up.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: And when you say factory seconds,
• 49:35
  it's like there's an air bubble in it or there's too much
• 49:38
  filling or there's not
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: quite enough.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like too much filling.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, what's wrong with that?
• 49:46
  I don't know where...
• 49:46
  Oh,
• 49:47
  what I was going with that was Ben and Jerry's has a saying
• 49:50
  is...
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully I'm quoting it right.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: If it's not fun, don't do it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much bullshit telling us we have to be mad about everything.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: When none of it's true.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have to be mad about any of the shit we're told to be mad about.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, we just have to do the opposite of what they're telling us.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to be mad about nonsense.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not afraid of other people because of their sexualities.
• 50:29
  I'm not afraid of other people because their skin colors or
• 50:32
  where they're from.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't live in fear of other people and I don't live in fear of myself.
• 50:39
  And I think that's a big thing is because we've had the
• 50:43
  opportunity for therapies,
• 50:45
  but I want this to be a space where we can show other men that
• 50:50
  even if you don't
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: have the resources to go to therapy,
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: you have men next to you and nearby you who also want to talk.
• 51:01
  And it's not just you who wants to get your feels out and have
• 51:05
  good conversations
• 51:07
  where you don't put each other down the whole time and you talk
• 51:09
  about stories about
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: your lives and you can uplift and you can learn from them.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I want.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: I want a Manosphere that doesn't suck and isn't Joe Rogan.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because, Evan, had you gone on to Joe Rogan, I'll ask you this.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think the outcome would have been for you if you were,
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: say,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: friends with Joe Rogan or that crowd of people?
• 51:31
  What do you think the difference in a conversation would have
• 51:33
  been for you?
• 51:35
  come on bro what are you crying about her i'm lining you up for
• 51:38
  the easiest
• 51:39
  question all that stuff it just there's no introspection
• 51:50
  there's no like hey we're
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: okay look at it's the thing is like
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many other guys, even those fucking guys.
• 51:59
  They're the real cowards because they're the real pussies
• 52:03
  because they have the
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: exact same feelings.
• 52:05
  I call them testicles rather than pussies because I don't like
• 52:08
  insulting women
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: because testicles are weak as shit.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fucking testicles, little bitches.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you say testicles or testicles?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: They have the same... I call Pete Hegseth a taint.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: He's that gross shit between...
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because he sits right between an asshole and a sack of balls.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's perfect.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is the guy talk, ladies.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's all on Nick.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: I have nothing.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do this all the time.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: Just in case you were wondering,
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: anybody around here,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: we know that Nick Pero goes right into all of this stuff.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because vaginas and a pussy can take a pounding, a testicle can't.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just, we'll put it that way.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you kick a ball sack.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: I remember my kindergarten teacher said something.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have to maintain my professionalism.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can't handle it.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: See, nobody gets to tell me what I can't say.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: I have no professionalism.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's your show, too.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: I get to be as unprofessional as I want.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, man.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: You've touched that so much.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing I was going to just disagree with you,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nick,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: is we're allowed to be mad only for one reason.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you drive it slow in the left lane in front of you.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: Get out of the fucking passing lane.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Colorado has the worst fucking drivers you will ever imagine.
• 53:35
  Have you driven through some of the middle states in America,
• 53:40
  like Oklahoma and Arkansas?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: Arkansas is bad.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: They'll fucking hit you for no reason.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: Dude, what are you doing?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Who will hit you?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: The cars will hit you?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they don't use turn signals.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: They don't use, they ignore traffic.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: They ignore speed limits.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: The speed limit is like 75 in a lot of areas outside of cities.
• 54:04
  you'll get people going like 50 in the fucking passing yes dude
• 54:09
  and just sitting
• 54:09
  there and then they'll be like what and then they'll look at
• 54:13
  you as you pass them
• 54:14
  and there's no laws against giving the middle finger in
• 54:16
  arkansas so i'll just drive
• 54:18
  by and just do this sometimes and it's not appropriate but they
• 54:22
  deserve it then you
• 54:23
  got plausible deniability oh i was just stitching my eye
• 54:26
  officer yeah you know what
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: they do out here you haven't driven in south florida lately
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: I drove.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: I used to drive.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
• 54:36
  This is a place where it's a portal of entry from South America
• 54:41
  and Caribbean where
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: nobody knows how to drive,
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: where it's like.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you have a pulse?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, here's your driver's license.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're 103 and you're going for your renewal.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: We'll give you another seven years on your license.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, please, we need to stop that.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you're over a certain age,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: you should probably have your driver's license evaluated every year.
• 55:04
  i think 16 is too young another thing though in wisconsin
• 55:06
  voting block here that's
• 55:07
  the problem another thing in wisconsin is we got this four-way
• 55:11
  stop so you pull up
• 55:12
  and then people are like oh even though it's their turn they're
• 55:15
  like oh you go you
• 55:16
  go come on and then you're like oh that that one gets when
• 55:21
  people are being polite
• 55:22
  it's like motherfucker just follow the rules of the road don't
• 55:25
  be polite don't do
• 55:25
  me a favor because when you start fucking with it we all crash
• 55:29
  we all crash
• 55:30
  They do this passive aggressive thing like with the left hand
• 55:32
  lane thing in Colorado.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: They do this passive aggressive shit where everybody like all the
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: they're all like the evangelical type people here in Colorado Springs.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: They put, please be patient, student driver.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: They put those bumper stickers on the back of their car.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you get up to like go around them,
• 55:53
  you're thinking it's going to be some 16 year old kid that
• 55:55
  doesn't know what,
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: and it's like a 50 year old lady.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, yo, you're not a student driver.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they might be.
• 56:02
  Some of these hyper-evangelical folks have not allowed their
• 56:06
  wives to learn how to drive.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: They could be new drivers.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to tell them to get out of the fucking left lane.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs to get out of the left lane.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a huge fan of traffic,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: of roundabouts,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: because I've lived in enough cities where they don't have them,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: and you just sit there and you're stuck and fucking miserable.
• 56:30
  unless you're in arkansas and then they put roundabouts in
• 56:32
  random ass spots that
• 56:34
  don't fucking need them because there's no buildings there
• 56:37
  there's three it's a two
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: it's a
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's a T-intersection, and you put a fucking roundabout.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: What are you doing, Arkansas?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Get out of here.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Spend money on schools instead.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: We need those.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or fill the potholes.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: Or teach people how to drive.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: They did something weird up here by me.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: They actually took one of the main arteries.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like a four-lane, five-lane, six-lane divided main artery.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: And as you go over I-95, they made a diamond.
• 57:10
  I don't know if you guys have ever seen this where you actually
• 57:12
  go on the opposite side.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yep.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you go from the right side of the road.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now you're driving on the left side of the freeway.
• 57:19
  Like you're literally on the opposite side and then they cross
• 57:22
  you back over.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm trying to figure out where did this come from?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a helix.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: What they did was they did a helix design to do the traffic shift.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: The reason they do it,
• 57:35
  and I only know this because I was stationed at Joint Base
• 57:37
  Lewis-McChord in
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Washington,
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: and they put one,
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: two exits down from there.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: And is that...
• 57:46
  it alleviates on and off ramp traffic because you can get off
• 57:51
  the highway and merge
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: straight into your ongoing lane
• 57:57
  wow so you can have going on and off the highway in all four
• 58:01
  directions all at the
• 58:03
  same time it's supposed to work it's like zipper merging nobody
• 58:07
  knows how to do
• 58:07
  zipper merging either like yeah this is crazy ladies oh yeah
• 58:14
  this is what goes
• 58:15
  through our mind when we're behind the wheel driving this is
• 58:18
  exactly how men think
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: this is what we go through like
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: I always like one of my lines is like,
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I had like 50 millimeter cannons from like Death Race.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: The cars up in front of me.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Mad Max things coming outside your wheels.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of my way.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: We don't actually want to kill anybody.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to move the stuff out of the way.
• 58:40
  I want like the inspector gadget car where my wheels can widen
• 58:45
  and I can go over
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: and around them and then just get back in.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: Just fill some water balloons with paint and toss them out the window.
• 58:52
  Another person you can hate is if you have a sports car and you
• 58:54
  drive like you
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: can't drive and you're going 12 miles,
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: 20 miles under the speed limit,
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: get out of your sports car.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Go park it, hand the keys over to somebody else and walk away.
• 59:16
  You don't deserve that car if you're going to drive it so much
• 59:19
  slower than the
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: speed limit that the cop will pull you over for being slow.
• 59:24
  Just trying to parade it around on the interstate like it's a
• 59:27
  car show or something.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if you have a car show car, different.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like a 1930s car, that's different.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: But if you have like a 2024,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: 2025 sports car,
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: 2000s or above,
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: and it's like a Ferrari or a Corvette,
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: you better be driving it like it's one of those cars.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you get all the tickets.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: That way I don't.
• 59:50
  Because I'll drive behind you and go slightly slower so that
• 59:53
  you get the tickets and not me.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: But you drive faster.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: I got to start my afternoon clinic, but thank you very much.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Evan, please do better.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nick, thank you very much.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love you, buddy.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate you guys.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being with us.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to show your thing.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody come support Eric at the pickleball podiatrist.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks guys.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Love you, buddy.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we're right at the top of the hour.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let's close it out and give each other a chance to
• 1:00:24
  let me fill our screen um let's let evan start so yeah any last
• 1:00:28
  thoughts sell
• 1:00:29
  yourself and any last thoughts on today's conversation i love
• 1:00:34
  you guys um i
• 1:00:35
  appreciate all of you i appreciate everybody that watched this
• 1:00:38
  is there has been
• 1:00:40
  nothing in my life that has brought me more fulfillment than
• 1:00:43
  putting myself out
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: there and
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: I, on news from underground, I do a lot of, I look at a lot of news.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of introspective stuff.
• 1:00:53
  I talk about my problems,
• 1:00:54
  problems facing men,
• 1:00:56
  problems facing the country.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just a good community to come hang out with.
• 1:01:02
  There's a lot of good people in there that are active in the
• 1:01:05
  comments and stuff.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of newsletters and some articles for Lincoln Square, too.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you guys are checking them out and everything.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: But Nick and Walter and Eric, too.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I love you guys, man.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:01:21
  This this has given me great perspective and like given me the
• 1:01:27
  fulfillment and
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: energy to get through today,
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: at least.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that matters a lot, you know, because each day at a time.
• 1:01:35
  got to get through this and it means the world to have you guys
• 1:01:40
  right alongside me
• 1:01:42
  i'm glad we could do this with you and for anyone if like if
• 1:01:48
  you thought everyone
• 1:01:49
  here knew each other before this show if you were coming into
• 1:01:52
  this going oh these
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: guys all know each other i'm the only one who knew all
• 1:01:59
  Everybody else,
• 1:02:00
  I think Evan knew Eric a little bit,
• 1:02:03
  but had never met Walter.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: Eric hadn't met Walter.
• 1:02:06
  And so it's okay to even find a random group of guys that you
• 1:02:14
  can be friends with.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how we do this.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_03: So go join Evan,
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: subscribe to his work,
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: help support Evan's work,
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: especially right now too,
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: not as a sympathy,
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: but as a,
• 1:02:28
  reward for being an intelligent masculine man who's coming out
• 1:02:32
  here and putting
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: himself out here and who's willing to do this,
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: help grow his community so that he does this more.
• 1:02:39
  Because I'm going to ask Evan,
• 1:02:40
  I know you don't want to put the video out from yesterday.
• 1:02:44
  or you talked about maybe not putting it out,
• 1:02:46
  but I would encourage you to maybe put a clip.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was going to say,
• 1:02:52
  I encourage you to put it out and even link it to today's to
• 1:02:57
  show this is what
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: growth can look like for men and how we can talk about this together.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: Go support Evan.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's awesome.
• 1:03:07
  Everyone's shown you so much love today in the chat and all of
• 1:03:11
  us love in the chat.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you everyone for being
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: here and doing that with us, too.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Walter, how about you, brother?
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love you guys.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is so excellent.
• 1:03:20
  Evan,
• 1:03:20
  I'm so impressed that you came out and had the courage to talk
• 1:03:23
  like this.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a forward positive step.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: So congratulations to you.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: Are you a Dostoevsky fan?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: He has a book called Notes from the Underground.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's exactly what it was.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I knew that would be.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's fantastic.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: We got that in common.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_03: In my lowest point in my life, I'm just like, I'm leaving.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: I went and moved to South America for 10 years,
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: and it's amazing where you can feel like the world's collapsing,
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: and you're like,
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm out of here,
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: because now you're free to do something like this.
• 1:03:50
  Go for a week or whatever,
• 1:03:51
  but get out,
• 1:03:52
  and then you try something new,
• 1:03:53
  and before you know it,
• 1:03:55
  you'll see how trivial the previous problems were in reality
• 1:03:58
  you know so it's just
• 1:03:59
  there's so many opportunities now and there still is chance to
• 1:04:02
  salvage the the
• 1:04:04
  affection you had for that person which was a real affection
• 1:04:06
  you know i said this
• 1:04:07
  the other day on a podcast i'll never apologize for loving
• 1:04:10
  somebody because that's
• 1:04:11
  a sincere true emotion what they do with it is their business
• 1:04:14
  i'm not going to stop
• 1:04:15
  because loving people is one that's the only reason to be here
• 1:04:19
  so oh this has been
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: a great thing it's wonderful to talk about things what we always say
• 1:04:24
  everybody feels like this that's the other thing you know we
• 1:04:26
  all feel like why are
• 1:04:27
  we afraid to talk like this every time i've talked to people
• 1:04:30
  about my fears having
• 1:04:31
  an immigrant wife that you know what's going on right now i
• 1:04:34
  talk about with people
• 1:04:35
  and they say yeah we're up we don't think that's horrible too
• 1:04:38
  so we hold those
• 1:04:39
  things in sometimes we hold in that stress and it's for nothing
• 1:04:42
  because everybody
• 1:04:43
  wants to have these conversations again thank you for having
• 1:04:46
  the courage to come on
• 1:04:47
  it's a brave thing you did today and i think there's probably a
• 1:04:49
  lot of people who
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: watch this
• 1:04:51
  know and they'll be healed because of this talk and it's
• 1:04:53
  because of you because you
• 1:04:54
  made it happen so thank you and because of your perspective too
• 1:04:57
  walter you that's
• 1:05:00
  unmatched you know what i mean like your perspective on things
• 1:05:05
  and the empathy that
• 1:05:07
  you have like you want other people to have for themselves is
• 1:05:11
  truly inspiring i
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: appreciate you
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_03: I hope I've made a new friendship here with you guys and helped you guys.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll talk again.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: I already scanned the QR code.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already subscribed and everything.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:05:26
  And I look forward to hearing you guys talk together
• 1:05:29
  independently sometime.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me,
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: that's the whole part of it,
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: is to be able to make connections and make new friendships.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said...
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: All my friends, well, not all of them.
• 1:05:43
  A lot of my friends are online and I'm okay with that because I
• 1:05:46
  get to talk to them
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: every day and I get to have conversations and all the folks in the chat,
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: there's 321 of y'all in the chat.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh really?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: Holy cow.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: On Substack.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now another, like we're, we're still going up at the end of our show.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you everyone for being here.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_03: Hit the subscribe in that top corner.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like Evan said,
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: like Walter said,
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: and Eric is just like,
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: when we stepped out to put ourselves out there,
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: that was the best decision we could have ever made.
• 1:06:18
  I sat behind and hoped the work that I did while in tech would
• 1:06:23
  be seen by others
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: for the work itself.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it didn't.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: And eventually I got fired from my, my role.
• 1:06:31
  And what I did after was I put myself out there with poetry and
• 1:06:36
  started writing.
• 1:06:38
  And that's what I do on sick of the ship publications is I've
• 1:06:41
  taken that and I've
• 1:06:42
  built it into online and real friendships and amazing groups
• 1:06:48
  that I get to talk
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: with multiple times a week.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope you subscribe along with me.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: And for anyone who wants,
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: there's 60% off discount right now too for a forever subscription,
• 1:07:01
  or you can become a founding member with me here at Sick of the
• 1:07:04
  Shit also,
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: which I just lowered.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love the sound of dogs barking.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was pretending to be the dog.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: I was trying to line it up.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: There's not even anybody here.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: And with everyone here tonight,
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: this afternoon,
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say thank you for so much wonderful engagement for all of us.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: Walter, I so love getting to hang out with you, my friend.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I miss every time.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: You as well.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: Eric,
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: I know you're gone and you're at work again,
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_03: but it's been so great to get to know you so far.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: And Evan, I hope you have a great day, dude.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you have a great afternoon.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do some stuff to make me happy today.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: Go to a movie.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_03: Go to anything.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: Open, wide open.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Go get your favorite ice cream.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: Go to your favorite ice cream shop and go have some ice cream.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hang out.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Go take a book out from the library and go eat some ice cream.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: Smug some weed and play video games.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: Just don't listen to the chat on the video games.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: Listen to us again.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: Come back for more shows.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like Mario Brothers.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: Not a fun one.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: We'll be back.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll definitely check in with you guys later on today.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let you know that I'm doing all right.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do that.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you everyone so much for being with us today too.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're tired of this shit.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're sick of this shit.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're doing this shit.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: And part of that is intelligent masculinity and scholar warriors.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: And hopefully four of them were on the screen today for you.
• 1:08:35
  I think they are myself included because we have to care about
• 1:08:39
  ourselves too and
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: know that we're doing a good job.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: So everybody go out there,
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: acknowledge yourself,
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: take care of yourself and let's start doing this shit friends.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, everyone.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Evan.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Walter.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love everybody.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.