Latest / Have you met you? / Ep. 29: Ancient Technology, Christian Mysticism & the Healing Power of Love with Dr. Lauren Borden

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Ep. 29: Ancient Technology, Christian Mysticism & the Healing Power of Love with Dr. Lauren Borden · Have you met you?

• Lauren: when we tap into this, we can create the impossible. And and like being able to be in ceremony in communities and like really operating at our full potential, right? Like these are some of the places where I think it's possible to like solve the world's problems. Like things that we would never even be able to imagine can come out of us when we really tap into like what it means to be human. It just requires something of us. Sasha Pearl: Practices have the most power to change your life aren't apps, aren't something outside of you, and are not strategies. What if they have been inside of you the whole time? I'm on the podcast again with Dr. Lauren Borden, and we are going to take this conversation in many different places. We talk about astrology, we talk about ancient technology, we talk about Christian mysticism and how the texts of the church were destroyed. We get into why love is not a soft concept, but one of the most fiercely transformative forces in existence. Today's a juicy one. I think I just say that about all my podcasts at this point. But truly, we dive deep into all of these things and what a lovely conversation to be listening to. And I'm your host, Sasha Pearl, the energy architect. I guide solid women in building authentic six-figure businesses by aligning their identity, their brand. and their content using my highly potent method because I believe that your fullest expression is your greatest currency. So let's hop into this episode, sasha: Welcome to the podcast today. We have Dr. Lauren Borden on, and we'll be talking a little bit about astrology, a little bit about ancient technology, and maybe a little bit about Christian mysticism. So Lauren, let's get into it. I would love to actually start off with the Jupiter conjunct Venus today. Did I say that Lauren: Yeah. We're y'all, we're we're recording this on like the luckiest day of the entire year. Okay, I wanna preface this. I am not an astrologer. I actually feel like you know more about astrology than I do, but sasha: This specific conjunction, I just know it's a luckiest day and that's it. Lauren: Yeah, luckiest day of the year. So there are many planets in the sky, the benefic ones, the ones that are like happy, good shit happens. Jupiter is like the planet of like luck and abundance. Venus is all about like beauty, love, luxury. Like it's like Venus in the sky. It's like sexy energy. And they like smush them, they're on top of each other right now. in the house of Gemini. so wherever you have Gemini in your chart will tell you like what's being blessed today. But generally speaking. It's like really good stuff for career, for love. So it's a really good day to manifest. And anything that you like plant seeds for today, like good energy will be kind of infused into because it's all in the air. And I want to name actually I had a conversation about with this about with Chelsea, who you know, who's my like business partner. because Chelsea and I both woke up and we were like, we feel like shit, and it's the best day. It's the best day of the year. We gotta pull it together. We gotta pull it together, it's the best day of year. And I was like, and I was like, well, the thing with Jupiter too is that Jupiter will also magnify everything that's there. So like if you are kind of like have any crunchy bits happening, it can also make that louder. That doesn't make it mean it's less lucky. It just means that it can make things more visible. So I just say that to normalize if you're listening and you're like, bitch, this is a horrible day. And like that could be happen that could be happening. So that's my amateur astrology take. sasha: You're like, how dare you? Lauren: F as someone who spends too much time on the internet. sasha: yeah, we I so much astrology content always. I'm actually really obsessed with it, as you know. because I send you all of the reels. I'm like, Lauren, look at this. Lauren's a cancer and Jupiter, I think today is the last day Jupiter is in cancer. So that's why it's even more juicy. We spent the last year in Cancer. And my tenth house of career is in cancer and my Jupiter's in cancer. So I was in my Jupiter return last year, which is like kind of crazy with just the amount of change and everything. So where is your Gemini though? Lauren: You're right, it's in cancer right now. Not in Gemini. Why did I think it was in I'm sorry. Uranus. Uranus is in Gemini right now. Y'all rewind, like edit, undo. sasha: Well it's it's moving. Lauren: I already this is why I shouldn't talk about astrology. But you know, it's in cancer, not not Gemini. So wherever j can cancer is in your chart. But yeah, cancer. I'm a super cancer. So I have four I have like four planets in cancer. I'm crying all the time. sasha: She is one of the most in depth human beings that I know. Actually. Lauren: I my my joke have I told you have I told given you my spiel where I cause I was born late. Like I I was supposed to be born in Gemini season and I joke that my soul was my soul was like, I will not be a Gemini and then I overshot and now all my planets are in cancer and I st can't stop crying. sasha: thank God he worked. why Wait, what house is your cancer rule though? Lauren: Twelfth, twelfth house. So it's like yeah, so it's not even like cancer in my house of like play and joy. It's like cancer in my house of like the underworld. Like it's sasha: Well, isn't that all about bringing light to the darkness then? Lauren: Yeah, it's like shadow work, intuition, mysticism, healing. it's yeah, can't twelve house stelliums, it's like you're either gonna end up in a mental institution or you're gonna like be a really powerful healer. So I don't know. TBD, we'll see the jury's still out, guys. Thank you. Thank you. I I'll take that. There's still time. There's still time for it to course correct, but sasha: She is definitely leaning towards powerful healer for anyone who's listening. still time. to this day, these conversations with Oren have been my favorite, like thus far on the podcast. I think it's just because we're like besties in real life and then besties on the podcast and that's just really fun. So I love their little boppity boop boop boop boop that we do. Lauren: I know, we have a good way of we riff. We I have fun. This was also people were like reaching out to me from our last podcast, asking me on other podcasts. And I'm I'm like, I had so much fun. I had so much fun in that pac podcast. So actually everyone if you haven't listened to the first one, you might go back and listen to the first one because sasha: You definitely it's one of the best performing I haven't told you that yet, but it's one of the best performing as well. Mm-hmm. Lauren: I didn't know that. It was a riot. Yeah, it was like it was that was and you're so good you're so good at this love. This is like your zone of genius. sasha: Thank you. Well, so because of the last podcast, we kind of didn't have a lot of time to go into ancient technology in the depth that I thought would be really important for the audience to understand. So let's start there. What is ancient technology? Lauren: Yeah. And I think I said that, you know, I just to give everyone a little bit, you know, some context around because you were asking me about the beauty way and my work in ceremonial spaces and with the divine feminine. And I just casually used the phrase ancient technology and your like brain cells reorganized in front of my face. Like I saw you like glitch and then I went, my God, what is ancient technology? I went like, shit, what is Because I use that phrase, I like I use that phrase, and there's a thing that I'm talking about. And just to give everyone some kind of history, right? Like the word technology has in many ways been morphed into it's not something that it's not, but it's a very specific use of the word technology. So technology comes from the Greek word techne, which is really just about skill. Or like know-how or sort of use like using a skill set to get from point A to point B or to like in a creative or transformative process. And because we live in a world that's patriarchal, that relates to mind as dominant over body, right? And that's something that can go back to like Cartesian dualism and Descartes, who just was like the mind is separate from the body. And then that became this like whole thing in our world. And if you look at Indigenous cultures or like ancient cultures, they were there was no mind-body. It's just all why would I ever relate to my mind as separate from my body? Right. And one of the ways that that's kind of manifested out in the world is that like all of these intellectual technologies, like education, AI, our smartphones, being able to go into Chat GPT and ask a question. Like we relate to that or computers, right? Like we relate to that as technology or as like the highest like pinnacle of technology. And we forget that actually there's like the technology of farming, there's technology of ceremony, there's technology of spirit, there's technology of like different spiritual practices to bring different energies online. Ceremony is a technology. Chelsea always says she goes, bac basket weaving is a technology. sasha: That's great. I think the reason I even added or I wanted to ask that is like, A, I've never heard of ancient technology. And then also just the duality of ancient with the word technology, like from the past of the future, felt very like, well, that's really interesting. What do you mean by that? and so I would love to even hear more about how we can utilize these ancient technologies in our day-to-days, because essentially we're talking about how everything is interconnected. Lauren: Yeah. sasha: Right. Mind, body, soul. Lauren: Totally. Yes. And I think there's something really important. Like this is a really important my opinion is that this is a really important time to be having this conversation. Cause like, I mean, I love AI. I'm a I'm a Claude is my favorite. And I think we're at an inflection point, right? Where I'm like, this is either going to take over the world and it's going to ruin us, or it's going to be like the thing that one of the things that helps us bring, you know, bring us to the next level. And my opinion is that like, some of these more ancient technologies that are really connected to soul and body and spirit and what it means to be human are going to be even more rare and even more valuable because they're gonna be we're either gonna remember them and they're gonna like, you know, rise up and kind of do their thing and weave with like what the other ways that we're creating as a species, or we're gonna like lose it. And I think that's why a lot of people are kind of waking up right now and going, wait, what about? Blah, blah, blah. So the this piece with ancient technology for so from my perspective, there is a technology that is available inside of like our remembrance of what it means to be human and what it means to work with our souls and like live from our souls. And there For me, like ceremony is one of the the most palpable access points and like technologies that gives us access to this because it helps us drop below the mind and like remember something like truths that live in our bodies and in our cells and in our DNA. Like even things that have like existed in our lineages can come through us when we really tap in and go, like, wait, I didn't even know that lived here. And it's like, Yeah, it's because I was, you know, it was literally in our lineage and it's in our bodies now. And so that kind of ability to live from soul and remember in this way, to me, the things that like have really helped me access it and that I'm like utilizing it in my practice, right, are around how do you what are the structures that you have, what are the practices that you have to reconnect to your intuition, to your the way of knowing that makes no sense, you know, like that you can't track the mind, actually can't. make sense of it, but somehow you end up saying the perfect thing at the perfect moment, or you end up in the perfect place for you in your journey that like transcends anything that we could possibly imagine. as humans, like our creative process, right? Like being able to produce like we cre when we tap into this, we can create the impossible. And and like being able to be in ceremony in communities and like really operating at our full potential, right? Like these are some of the places where I think it's possible to like solve the world's problems. Like things that we would never even be able to imagine can come out of us when we really tap into like what it means to be human. It just requires something of us. most of us are not there immediately. Like the world has sort of done a done a number on us where being in that level of like community can be activating for many people. so like ceremony, intuition. there are many different like practices and technologies within like spiritual lineages that are some are like you need to be initiated into, some not. but really ones that like help us access our soul. And that's also a question if you have Chelsea on the a podcast again, you should ask her about ancient technology because I'm sure she'll like riff on this and have all kinds of other things. But I I think for me, the conversation is a lot of it's also about blowing out what we have been taught to believe technology is. sasha: Mm-hmm. Lauren: and like giving validity to a whole host of things that like society might have taught us is woo or not valid or whatever. sasha: Yeah. And again, when I hear technology, I'm like, it's outside of me. And what you're saying is like actually it's all of these practices that create the inner world that you then get to change the world with. Lauren: Yes. Which holy shit, thank you for saying that. Cause I'm like, who benefits from us believing that technology and power and wisdom is something to be obtained outside of us? sasha: The patriarchy. Lauren: Yeah. And like what gets and like holy shit, how much is lost. But also get what gets to happen when you remember that, that it's in you. sasha: Yeah. I feel like what's really interesting on this podcast, I mean, I've always said this is about identity and like the identity you have to hold to shift into the next version of yourself. And actually in all of these conversations that I keep having, it's all about soul remembrance. And I'm like, yeah, like that is actually what I'm asking. Cause the more that you move into your identity, it's actually you're getting closer and closer to the path that you are. meant to be living right and that's a series of choices to get us to where we're at and a series of choices to build whatever identity we want to hold. But I feel like ancient technology is also a beautiful like like what is the easiest access point to integrate ancient technology? You said ceremony, you do a lot of meditation, like you have a really serious meditation practice. And I'm like, I need that. Lauren: Yeah. How do you ask it on? Yeah, sasha: It w is meditation also ancient technology? Lauren: My yeah, my opinion is that it would be. It's it and and this is also sort of my a part of like my int my intention and even using the word technology is to kind of like fuck up anything that we think. I'm like, what? Just make it up. Like it's you know what I mean? Like I'm like, it's made up. What do you want? You know. But but so I don't I you know, anything I say here. sasha: First my bubble. Lauren: I I'll say I'm referencing what I use in my practice and what I use in my own life. and one of the things I'm really present to is that like when you're really in the realm of soul, it and I think this ties to your work really beautifully, love. Like it's yours. Like it comes out of you. So a lot of my role as a facilitator and like a teacher and a guide and a coach is actually not about. sasha: Mm. Lauren: I like have plenty of shit to teach. Like I get excited about things, but it's it's like getting you to slow down enough where it's like, what are you feeling drawn towards? What makes you feel alive? What do you want to move towards that makes absolutely no sense? Like if you get quiet and actually have the intention of like calling in your soul, what's the next right thing? And you might even, if you're listening to this, like do that, like actually slow down, pause the recording and like really check in with your body and that whatever emerges, like that is the thing. and so, and practically, like if you want to play with some things that I've, you know, that I've dabbled in, meditation is absolutely for me, meditation is has been like life altering. I don't actually think I would be here if I didn't have a meditation practice. Because it allows you to really drop below the mind and like really hear yourself and get that signal. Right. sasha: Yeah. Well and you I mean you have a doctor's degree, a doctorate. So like you are like you are you do a lot of mental processing in general, correct? Like you you in the past have lived majority from your your mental logic space. Lauren: I yeah. Yeah. Yes. Totally. I had I got a PhD by the age of twenty-six. I also am very neurodivergent. So I have a very like pattern recognition, active my headspace. yeah. And so I for me it was like meditation, there was no growth without learning to really like hone this. And learning to kind of drop below it because it was running the sh in many ways. I mean, I like I love my brain. I can tell you, I can rattle off all the stuff about Christian mysticism and I can tell you, I can teach you so many things because I have so much in my brain. And my ability to like slow down and drop below it into a deeper way of knowing that uses my mind, but it's not because I'm being like dominated by it. That was only something that came online through a meditative practice. So for me, that started as I don't know if I ever told you this, Vipassana. So I was like in grad school. I was finishing my PhD and I was about to get I was literally about to get my doctorate degree and everyone's going, What are you gonna do for work? And it was like, you can be a, you know, in academia and stay like doing research and or you can go be a consultant. And I was looking at like the options that were in front of me and I was like, I don't want to do, I actually don't want to do any of this. that was like the most honest thing. And I went, shit. And I hit pause and I went and I I had maybe done like I was doing like three to five minutes of meditation a day. Like I was not meditating and I had not, and I went and I did a 10 day silent meditation retreat where we were doing 12 hours of meditation a day. And I just signed up like in the middle of my PhD program and was like, pause and like went. So that's how I am. I like bit off the, you know. I went into the deep end of the pool. So it started there. Vipassana was huge. And then later on working with my teacher, she is she's been initiated into different practices within Tibetan Buddha Buddhism, which she uses with me a lot. And I even when I'm not like working with either of those, I'm I'm usually on my sofa like chanting or breathing or something. sasha: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I want to really bring this back actually to your human design as well. So Lauren is a four-six manifestor with emotional authority. And the four six profile is literally about embodied leadership. So even if you had all of the information in your brain hole, it's not gonna land when you educate or teach other people if you haven't experienced it or embodied the information. Lauren: Yes. sasha: And then to her point of like I went from three to five minutes of meditation into a 10 day silent retreat. You're insane. But her core gift, your core gift is gate 15, the gate of extremes. Right. And so like it's it's like the you really understand what it means to be in the extremes of living as a human from zero to 100 in emotions, in life, in relationships, and all the things. So it's like it's part of what makes you so uniquely you, right? And why you have such a vast amount of hobbies and information under your belt. And what's interesting is that you you're able to pull from all these separate buckets to then be like, this is the thing. And you're like, where the heck did you get that? Lauren: Where the hell did that come from? Thank you for naming that. I forget that sometimes because sometimes I'm like, ooh, yikes. We really, we really well, and I think sometimes also people hear me describe that and they think that I'm gonna tell them that then they need to like jump off the deep end of the pool and or wait, I just mix metaphors. They're gonna I'm gonna tell them to like jump off a quit a cliff or quit their job. Or cause I did that. I I had this, I was working in corporate and I had this overwhelming knowing that I wasn't supposed to, I was like, I knew that I needed to go pursue coaching. It made no sense. I did not was not making money. I was living in Manhattan at the time, like not the cheapest place to live. And I had the insight. I I was in meditation and I heard the phrase, are you gonna trust me or not? sasha: shit. Lauren: And I went, my God. And that was on like Sunday. And that Wednesday I gave my notice. And listening to that story, I would go, holy shit, I don't want to work with her because I don't want to do that. But the the point is not the formula, right? Like the form point is not the formula of how you and I did these things. It's being able to be in the listening of like what's right for me right now and where is my soul guiding me. And And yes, at times being willing to do and take really big scary risks, even when they don't make sense, because you know what that sounds like. and your way will look different than everybody else's. And that's the point. Like if it looks like mine, if you're modeling your life after well, Lauren left her job and she had this much savings or whatever. And that I need to just do the same thing, you're not on your path, you're on mine. sasha: Mm. Lauren: So how do we hone your ability to listen? And then that I to me brings me back to like what are those technologies that help you tap in? sasha: Yeah, and I I absolutely love love that because I think obviously we are so conditioned to be like, Lauren, you have the PhD, you have the answers for me. Versus where it's like actually you me as Sasha have my own answers, right? You can help guide me there, but you don't have the answer, right? I have always had the answer, but am I brave enough to actually listen to the things that I I don't know, right? Lauren: Yes. sasha: Or don't make sense or I can't logically like round it in data or experience. I just know that I have to go and hop to the other side. Lauren: Which brings us back to your piece about ancient technology, right? Because it's like, particularly as women, but in the world, we have been so conditioned to believe that the answer is outside of us. Right. Like you can see this if you did grow up in the church. If not, that's okay too, because it's still in the air that we breathe. Cause our our, you know, the founders of capitalism were like church, like, you know, s were Protestants. They were involved, they were involved in the church, you know? And and That that belief that it's like divinity and God is out here and my humanity is separate and fallible. So I can't trust this, is so in our ether. And also our all of our power structures benefit from that. Cause it's like, if I don't trust myself, then I have to outsource my knowing to someone who has more power than me, which means they can profit on me, off me, extract from me, keep me working. And I'm not like villainizing capitalism here. Like I'm not trying to make a, you know, but. Well, I'm I'm kind of villainizing capitalism. I'm leaving room, I'm leaving room for like the evolution of that and very plainly naming like there are many systems that benefit from us being divorced from our knowing and how radical it is to be able to come back and say, like, no, I know. And me for me to look at you and say, No, like I know that you see how much is in my brain and thank you. I appreciate it. But like, no, no, your knowing is so much more valuable for you than anything I could actually teach you. and what's cool is that often, and I have this experience a lot, like Chelsea and I have this experience a lot when we're leading, or like, you know, I'm dating like a philosoph, like a philosopher historian, right? And so often my intuition will be like, I think it's this. Or Chelsea will be like, I think it's this. And it'll be like, yeah, yeah. Here's the history or here's the science that actually backs that up. And that there are these places where we're able to actually like channel and remember. Things on our own. And then out externally, it's like, hey, here there's a whole history to that. Congratulations. Now you can use that to like teach or support what you're up to. But that we can arrive there without reading a book. We can arrive there like just through true access of our own knowing and that devotional practice, which takes work. It's not always just like right there. but that's one of my favorite things, is when it's like, it's this. And it's like, there's a whole science, there's a whole research area, you know. sasha: Yeah. my God, absolutely. I think that science obviously has evolved so much since, you know, when we were growing up. And we there's so much more information on the unseen now that we can actually track it all the way back to science, which is so like I'm like, obsess. I've actually been recently in my human design like workshops. I'm like, we're gonna root this in science because everything is energy and that is just science. And I used a law of conservation of energy by Albert Einstein. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah. And I'm like obsessed. And then I use the map of consciousness by David R. Hawkins. I'm like, now that you, you know, can hang with me here, let's get into the woo. You know. Lauren: Yeah, well, and it's so helpful because sometimes our minds like need some pieces to get on board. and being able to draw that in a really cool way. And likewise, and the flip side of that too, I'm riffing on this. but one of the things I love about Christian mysticism and like that lineage that I've really been inside of is like there was this what Jesus and Mary Magdalene were embodying was this process, it's a Greek word called kenosis. Which is self-emptying. Like, how do you become a clear channel for spirit and love? And like, not because the things that make us human are bad, but because they actually need to be like loved and integrated in such a way that like the channel that is us, the channel that is Sasha can like resonate clearly when that sound hits, and that like you can get a clear signal of who you are. And that takes that does take practice of like, I got an intuitive hit that it was this. But actually it turns out that that wasn't an intuitive hit. That was actually my ego or that was a wound. Or and so this process, right, like all of these things are really valid. And so much of our, you know, experience as as humans is of like learning to differentiate and discern and like that's part of the beauty of it. and science can be a big part of that too. So sasha: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it also seems like you actually use a lot of Christian mysticism to inform your work. Right. Or like what have what lessons have you or information have you gained from Christian understanding, learning, researching, Christian mys mysticism that you get to now integrate into your life that you're like, wow, that was most like what what are what are those like profound moments where you're like, my God, everything makes sense? Lauren: God, there were so many things. there was so many things. Well, what was cool is actually I a lot of what I started with was like, my God, there's a whole lineage and system that's confirming what I've already known and been doing and like had such deep conviction about for years. that it was really cool because it wasn't like I went Christian mysticism, what is it like shoehorn? It was like find self. Find path. interesting. There's a lineage and it's in my lineage. And now let's do it on purpose. And so where it started for me, like so w some of my training is in internal family systems. Do you know what internal family systems is? sasha: I do, but do you wanna just quickly share what it is for the listeners? Lauren: Yeah. So it's this whole idea that as humans, our psyches and our emotional landscapes, right? It's like we don't just have like there's capital S self, Lauren. There's there's me when I feel compassionate and I'm connected to my heart and my intuition and I'm fully expressed in the world. And then there's who I am when I'm scared. And there are different like versions of me that can show up. You might get Lauren who's like gonna punch you in the face. You might get achiever, Lauren, you might get researcher Lauren. All of these are ways of being that I knew to be in the world. To keep me safe. And a lot of times, you know, the traditional methods of healing were like, you know, Lauren gets aggressive when she's scared. We need to like fix that. And instead, internal family systems is like, what you're actually doing is you're almost getting like a whole family system to move more intentionally and with more coherence. So now, if for me, if like rageful, raging bitch Lauren comes online and I'm using this playfully, like, I that it's like, hey, like, whoa, what am I trying to protect? Like, hey, like, how old do I feel? And then like coming back into coherence with that part and relationship so that I can love it and actually like be in relationship with it and receive its gifts versus just like face palming it, which is what most of us do with our shadows and go, like, I shouldn't be feeling this. I shouldn't, this isn't evolved, this isn't spiritual. And like, Internal family systems is this therapeutic technique that allows us to actually bring that shadow in, love it, and then like integrate it into our system. And this system was radical for me. Like it changed everything. And in terms of my own healing, and the central thing that is in Christian mysticism that I was like, whoa, was the Only thing that heals inside of those systems. It doesn't matter if you're talking about a part of you that is rageful, hateful, depressed, full of shame, like the most gnarly parts of our humanity that we have a hard, like the hardest time being with are transformed and transmuted through love. sasha: Mm. Mm-hmm. Lauren: It's the only thing. And I had spent most of my life being like, don't be, you know, don't be bad. Don't be like a bad girl. Don't be angry. Don't be needy. And like the moment being able to like have a system where it's like, wait, actually, the part of me who's needy, like, what is she like, what does she need? What is she telling me? Like, how do I, how do I honor and take care of that part of myself allows us to come into more more coherence. This is very tied to Christian mysticism. So like The healing power of love, the facing off with our shadows, rather than relating to them as sin or distortion, we're like, wait, this is a gift. And how do I relate to it as a gift and like bring it in and honor it? Not that like you, you know, my rageful bitch, like I'm gonna go out slasher slashing people's tires or say, say it's all okay, right? But like really like honoring that part of my and that is like deeply part of the Christian mystic lineage and also really healing for someone who grew up like. Hey, when you're a ra rageful bitch, like you're gonna go to hell. sasha: Wow, geez, black and white there. Lauren: Yeah. So that was huge. And I have mo I have more, but I'll pause because that was a lot. sasha: So so one of the biggest things is love. Love transforms, transcends everything, right? And based off of the math of consciousness by David R. Hawkins, it's one of the highest frequencies that you can hold. And are you saying that you came upon this through your own lived experiences or through Christian mysticism? Lauren: Everything. Through my own lived experiences and then reading like the apocryphal texts and learning about Christian mysticism, it gave me I was like, this was part of the Christian mystic lineage, actually. Like my I don't have evidence for this part yet, what I'm about to say. But I believe that, or there are many scholars who believe that Mary Magdalene was not facing off with demons, she was facing off with psychological powers or areas of contraction. In a shamanic way that when you f when you face off with gave her access to more of her soul. And it was actually crucial for her own soul's development and it was part of the k the the process of kinosis. sasha: Wow. Where to go from there? I'm like, wow. Lauren: I know. It's like it well, it puts healing in a totally different frame where it's like you're not healing because you're fucked up. You're healing because that's what because that's what it is to be human and divine at the same time. sasha: Is that so and also it just feels like because you said her facing off with her shadows is actually what brought her closer to her soul. Okay. That's wild. That's wild. And it's just so interesting because it's like you it well, from the stories that I've heard from you, this feels very similar to that path and like what you have been through. Yeah. Exactly. Lauren: To like how I live my life. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm like being initiated into sasha: Yeah, you're like, I don't know how long it's gonna take for me to integrate. I'm like, take as long as you need. You've already know when you're ready. Lauren: Well and thank you 'cause I am I'm living I'm really I'm living this. I really am living this. So yeah. sasha: Yeah. And also for Lauren's Incarnation Cross was just is like the divine purpose, like purpose themes, is the vessel of love. So I love that you came to the to the knowing, integrated knowing that love is actually what transforms and transcends transcends everything. Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. It feels it feels like what I'm here to do and be. So thank you for constantly reminding me of that. Yeah. It's I forget every ten seconds because I'm like, God, I'm such a like sometimes I can be very like, What is this like care bear shit? And and then I'm like, right, that's what like that's what I'm here for. sasha: Which is really powerful. It's all your sponsor too. Yeah. Well and we have soul incarnation crosses, so it's really easy for me to like see that and witness that in in you. Lauren: Yeah, we like complete 'cause you're right angle cross of the sleeping phoenix. sasha: direction of the Sphinx. Yes. Yeah. So when Lauren and I are together, we we completely fill out the G center, which rules Love, identity, beauty, direction. Lauren: Sphinx. Okay, Sphinx. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. Which also makes I'm also, y'all, shameless plug because Sasha's gonna be on my podcast on Friday. and the thing I'm excited to talk to you about is like like that piece about like visibility and full expression as access to soul. Like, and that's so much of what I think both of us are here to do, where it's like, what is your unique like puzzle piece and how do we reflect it back to you and how do we help you remember? And so that cause it's like it's crucial right now in the world. It's like we actually need all of our sasha: Very sad. Lauren: We sort this is sort of an all hands on deck situation. sasha: Totally. And like I think that this topic that we're gonna talking about on Friday is is my lived experience for the last year and a half. Like this I didn't happen upon this. I chose this because I was so deeply uncomfortable and sad with what I where I was. Right. And it's like, well, creativity is always going to be the thing that makes me shine in the world and I'm gonna feel I shine for myself, right? And so it's always, yeah, it's just and now I'm doing it through content and creation, which I feel really excited to like share and see. Yeah, I'm really curious to see what comes out of that conversation. Lauren: Well, and it's so interesting to me because even being your friend and witnessing you for the last couple of years, I'm like, you've always been doing that. Like, I will literally if I have a moment where I'm like, the f are we swearing? The fuck am I doing? Or I get a really crappy piece of feedback and I'm like, I don't know how to like who am I? What's my message? I don't you don't even have to say anything to me. I just hang out with you for 10 minutes and I'm like, Yeah, I remember. sasha: Ha ha No. Lauren: Like I I it's sasha: Radival, can you get a testimonial please? Lauren: Like well, you can just just cut the sound bite and put it on your website. Like you can take that. You can take it. But like that's how I think that's how that's how and who you are, you know? And that's like yeah. sasha: And that's part of my incarnation cross. Like if you come into my orbit, you will be redirected in some like some sort of way. Right. And that could be redirection back to your soul, that could be physical redirection. That could be a new thought process or a new new way or framework of coming online. So and then you with yours, it's like you are literally bringing people back into love. Like that's what you get to do. And that's so beautiful. Lauren: Yeah. I know it is a fun. That's a fun I f see on my worst day I call it care. I'm like, this is care bear shit. but I'm like, no, it's it's like well, and it's also like kind of nitty. It's kind of gritty and gnarly and all of those pieces also. but it goes together. It's why we're it's why we're friends. Yeah. Yeah. sasha: I love it. Yeah, absolutely. And I last question before we start wrapping up here. for people who are just diving into Christian mysticism, did I ask you this on the other podcast? Okay. Where people who are interested in Christian mysticism or even have a background in religion and you know have, you know, shadowy, shadowy any type of relationship to the world, where can they start? Lauren: I don't think so. sasha: doing the research and really understanding like what resonates for them in in that realm. Lauren: girl. okay. my God. How much time do you have? Okay. No, so I have four minutes. So number one, that that thing I said where like slow down and just ask, like my experience with this is really that if you feel called to something and you slow down and you go, like, all right, soul, show like show me what's next, that things will just start showing up. sasha: Exactly, four minutes. Lauren: And that can just be a fun thing to do in general. So five stars. sasha: Double underline that. Like those anytime you are feeling like an urge to go do something you don't know why, that is literally your intuition. Go and explore it. Go have fun with it. Like make it this like fun like scavenger hunt. Yeah. Lauren: Yes. Yes. Yes. Cause even the inclination to go like, Lauren, teach me, or what is a system that I can stand into step into. And sometimes that's really powerful, right? To be able to like go try things on and that feels really good. And just tell me the way for a while. Like that's okay. And the impulse to be like, I don't know, is like the thing that we're healing. So just notice it and say more. sasha: And that's the magic actually, I would say. Well, I think the I don't know is actually the opportunity to then choose to go and explore and experiment, or I don't know you can then you can then stay and just be the same. Right. I feel like the I don't know is actually the initiation into choosing a higher level of yourself. Lauren: Yes, it's the I don't know is the thing that immediately precedes a deeper, more soulful direction and intuition and knowing. Your brain goes, What do I do? And then it's like, wait, wait, hold on. That's like the that's the cue, actually. It's not a sign that you don't know. It's the cue. And so, and a few resources that I'm just completely freaking obsessed with. one is any any work by Megan Waterson is life-altering. She wrote a book called Mary Magdalene Revealed. that goes into basically what would Christianity have been if if women were still, you know, were given a seat at the table, and how Mary Magdalene's story was actually crucial in the creation of Christianity. And then she was like actually violently deleted and lied about actually for years to discredit women's leadership inside of the church. And what was her work actually about? And she looks at it historically and theologically. Megan Watterson's incredible. The other one is a book called The Meaning of Mary Magdalene by a woman named Cynthia Bourgeo. That one leans more mystical. She starts historical and theological, and then she goes into like mystical teachings. Elaine Pagles is in an incredible, she was actually a, I think Harvard trained theologian. and she comes at it strictly speaking, theologically and historically. So she's very, very rigorous. And aside from that, one of the other things, like if That those are all like, if you want to go the scholarship historical route. for me, the spiritual component of literally sitting down and pulling out the apocryphal texts, so specifically the Nag Hammadi library. And if you understand nothing else, just start reading those. Nag Hammadi is a city. In Egypt and back in my god, I'm gonna get the get the date wrong because I'm so bad with dates. But like, yeah, there was basically this discovery at Nag Hamadi, Egypt, where this man uncovered this urn. He like opens it, he thought it was a genie. So he got scared of it, but then he was like, But maybe it's treasure. And so he breaks it and opens it. And there were like all of these texts that had been hidden by Coptic monks. In Egypt after the edict was released by the church to like to destroy all the apocryphal texts. So these monks went like, holy shit, and they shoved these things in urns. and so that's where like the gospel of Mary Magdalene was. they have something called like the Thunder Perfect Mind, the Acts of Paul and Thecla. Actually, were the Acts of Paul and Thecla? Actually, I don't think that was Nagamadi, but sasha: Well. Lauren: You can like Google Nag Hammadi Library and it's like the apocryphal texts and really just slowing down and starting to read them and like see what you what resonates and like what what you remember is also a really cool place to start because a lot of those texts by themselves can also be really healing. sasha: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Always follow what you you are naturally drawn to because it will always lead you the correct way. Lauren, I love this. As always. This is amazing. Thank you. How can people connect with you? Lauren: It always does. I am Dr. Lauren Borden on Instagram. our website is remembering thegarden.com. I'm not someone who you need to like hire to interface with. I always really, really love connecting with people and I'm passionate about this stuff and we'll, you know, talk paint off the walls. So I'm always happy to, I'm really, really, always happy to connect. And our next Beauty Way retreat is in September. So if you feel called to this work and think that you know, I might be able to be of support with you. We do have a couple of sessions a couple of slots left, although it's filling up. It's like gonna it's gonna have a wait list, which is bananas that were that were there. yeah, and but I also do this work individually and would love to like support you in your journey with any of this 'cause it's I just really care about it. So sasha: It's almost sold out. Bananas. Yeah, and just one small plug with the beauty way too. Like the beauty way is the reason I am who I am today. And so the work in there is such a massive initiation and soul remembrance. So 1010 recommend. And if you don't go. Just kidding. No, it's it's it's seriously such a magical experience. And just to like be a part of Chelsea and Lauren's energy is beyond. Lauren: You're so sweet. Thank you, love. Yeah. It's a place where we use where we use a lot of these ancient technologies and set up a container that allows you to remember you, which is what you did. Like and you you love, yeah, like you listened and you followed and you honored. And like that was you freaking did the thing, which is why it was mad of like so so f freaking cool to have you. And thank you for speaking on that because I'm very I love it a lot too. sasha: It's amazing. It's amazing. Okay, well thank you so much for being on the podcast and we'll talk soon. Thank you. Bye. Lauren: Yeah. Yay. Thank you everyone for having me.