Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 160: Lust and Greed

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Ep. 160: Lust and Greed · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcasting in you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: vote bitten and in my case underwear listening past. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Um, I got a bone to pick
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: first off, because, uh, do you guys remember when we
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: were talking about the guy that, um, the guy that
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: had the blue fin tuna? Yeah? Right, and he uh
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: refreshed my memory this that caught it legally into the
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: woods doing something. I'm doing some horrible hosting. So we
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: got a couple of corrections about the blue fin tuna
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: that are interrupted. One clarification of one correction where you
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: guys misled me and miss and really misled listeners by
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: not knowing uh not knowing something. The story is how
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the the the catch season on bluefin tuna had been
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: closed on the East Coast and a guy caught a
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: five hundred, four hundred there's different weights going around a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: four hundred pound bluefin tuna. He thought, maybe I can
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: hide this giant fish and no one will know I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: actually voted it because he could legally release it, right
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: like you could target it for clients, but you just
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: can't keep him. But he decided to keep thinking is
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of real valuable. He thinks he's gonna go and take
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: it and sell it in a backdoor restaurant exchange, which
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I guess happens quite a bit. Um he doesn't do it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: One of the restaurant's reports him for trying to sell
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: this tuna. He panics, ties it to his truck and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: drags it out into the woods and then gets all
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: these crazy fines and then talking about this, we're talking
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: about what is the value of a bluefin tuna? And
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: you boys, I can't remember which he was most guilty.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: You two are involved in it, and Miles Nolty, who's
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: not here right now, was involved in it. And we're
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: talking about how some tuna are worth millions of dollars. Correct,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: we looked it up on the internet. Yeah, but yeah,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the internet. Okay, no, oh, but a guy is gonna
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: now correct us. Okay, you check this out. Then check
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: this out where he's saying. He says, in reference to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the story of the poached and discarded bluefin tuna, you
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: misstated the value of blue fin tuna and the Japanese
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: fish auctions as one or three million dollars. And you
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: even mentioned it was the first of the year, right, Okay,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of ceremonial thing with the
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: first tuna. They take a nice tuna and sell the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: first tuna of the year at auction, and it's like
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: a dick swinging contest where whoever is kind of sitting
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: on the fattest wall and it has the best business
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: going will do a symbolic purchase of the first tuna
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: as a sort of media driver. But the same fish,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: if it was the second tuna, would be eighty grand.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It's the thing you do to be like. It's it's
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: like the opening of the sale. It's like the Texas
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: State Fair with the grand champion steer, and all the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: oil companies tell me more. I don't know this, but
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I like, I like, you have all your rural your
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: rural areas they have, you know, your four eight or
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: your state fairs, and so all these kids usually show
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: these animals and then when you get to the end,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: they have the grand champion. You know, this is the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: premium steer. Well, you go to a state like Texas well,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of oil money, and it happened
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: a lot over like North Dakota. Some of those guys
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: are paying you know, thousands of dollars, which those kids
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: is a ton of money. But I think it's the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: same thing these steers go for, you know, one to
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: three thousand dollars for a beef, because it's the same thing.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It's like it's the grand champion. You know, you gotta
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: have it. So yeah, that does not so you gotta
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: get Yeah, I feel like getting that, man. I feel
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're like in special contact. They will
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: be sold for a great deal of money. But no,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: here's the problem. Here's what you guys did. It was bad.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: You were saying that the tuna is a tuna can
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: be worth that amount of money. So the guy didn't
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: pay a million dollars for it. But yes, but it
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't the value of the tuna. It was like a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: it's a symbolic, ceremonial thing, has nothing to do with
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: the value of the tuna. Yeah. No, you're completely right,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and thank you wrong for misrepresenting the like the average
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: value of a tuna. If one a year gets sold
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that way in the Dick swing contest, then it's not
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the value of the tuna. Yeah, if you're charging I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: guess the whole saler that these dudes on the outer
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: banks there that are selling the tuna to They're not
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: going to get that that money. He's got nothing to
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: do with market. That's the interesting thing is doing some
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: trickle down economics to make sure the dude that caught
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the fish winds up getting five grand or something. Yeah,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: let let's do introductions real quick. I wonder what a
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: backdoor deal at a restaurant don't get you though? This
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: guy that wrote this guy, Yeah, exactly, it'll gets you
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: a ten dollar fine. This guy that wrote in, one
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: of the guys that wrote in about this was very
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: close to this and knew the players involved and kind
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of explained a little bit of backstory this tune. And
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: it seems as though there was some other boats around,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and somehow this guy thought it's possible to to do
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: this without to deal with the fish of this size,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: without attracting attention, And it seems like he blundered in
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: a number of areas and people were aware of, like, hey,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: that guy just drove by with a pound tuna hanging
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: off the end of his boat. Um, sethics Uh introduce yourself, Uh,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Seth Burgley. I don't know how much you might want
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to say, but no, there's no what you're named Burgh's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: no Burgley Burg No s Yeah, a lot of people
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: call me Burgs, but a lot of nicknames now wes
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Um grew up northeastern Montana, farmed ranched up there, so
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: that's kind of my background of agger culture. Stared hunting
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: when I was about three years old, be begun and
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: sparrows weren't safe, and been doing it ever since. Um
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: what's northeast Montana, north of Brockton, so kind of between
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: plenty Wood and Wolf Point, kind of up in no
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: man's land. Dated a gale from plenty Wood one time.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, wasn't your sister? You've got a sister, Well
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I do, but she wasn't in plenty of Wood anyway.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah. So we moved down to Billings when I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: was in high school. My dad had some health issues
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and uh culture to healthcare stuff. And started college there
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and then got a scholarship to go to Ohio State
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: now on a shooting scholarship, so shot competitively there and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: then the Army picked me up after that to go
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: shoot for them and spent a few years doing that
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and moved back to Montana. I got involved in politics
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit on the state level, and state representative,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: state representative representing the people of representing the good people
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of Carbon County. So it's the area that basically from
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: just south of Laurel all the way to Red Lodge,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: you know, Luther Roscoe area, and then south of the border.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: How many constituents do you have? About ten thou So
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it's funny. I was, I was just in d C.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And I was talking to a state representati from Virginia
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and talking about you know, campaigns and constituents and that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: sort of thing, and so I asked, I was like,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: what's a what's a campaign like for a state representative
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: in Virginia. He's like, oh, you know, like three or
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars And it's like, well, an expensive
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: one here is about forty So it's a little bit different.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: That's still a four bucks. That's still four bucks for
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: every content that's an expensive one. Yeah, the average is
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: probably about six ten, maybe six or ten. It was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: about a buck for in an election You're you're looking
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: at like five d to thousand votes is swinging the Yeah,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a thousand votes is a big, big difference. I think
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: we have a high voter turnout in Yeah, it was
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: like sixty seven percent or something like that, and yeah,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: it's about I want to say what we have. Uh yeah, well,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: getting registered vote is there was probably a hired turnout
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: than that. There's about sixty votes I think so, yeah,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: but it can be swung. A lot of the districts
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: are handful of votes, votes, forty votes some of them.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Usually there's one or two in the state that come
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: down to five or eight votes and they do a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: recount and oh he won by three. So and you're
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: saying that most like most state legislators are they have
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: another gig, like, oh, yeah, you can't make a living
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: at this. I mean they say we make eleven thirty
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: three an hour or whatever the state wage. But that's
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: eight hour days. So you know, when we're in session,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I guess there's some days
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: we get out earlier. You have a half day that
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you work, but generally, if you're involved, you've been around,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you're there at six six thirty every morning and you
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: often won't leave tilt eight nine o'clock. So if you
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: work six to six, that's kind of an average day,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: so you're not really making that much money. Everybody has
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: a job. I was just gonna say, how many terms
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: have you done? This is my third term, so yep.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And then you're only getting paid when you're in session.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: That's kind of a people think you're on like a
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: salary d it's you get paid every day that you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: working and then we get a per diem. But you're
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: moving up there and paying rent and buying food and stuff.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So it's not really a money making gig. Do it
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: for the for your ideological reasons or to try and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: help people out, so as a launchpad, right, some people
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: might I don't see that as my projection. I guess,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: like life, it's good when you're really There's when you
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: look at the makeup of the legislature. You get a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: lot of retired people because they have time to do it.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: You get some younger people that kind of are have
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: time on their hands, or you know, independent business owners,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: guys that can do their own thing take some time off.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And you get lawyers because they can just shut the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: practice down like all right, I'm not taking any I'm
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: not doing any work for four months and then they'll
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: come back. But it's kind of tough for you know,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: if you're in the egg world, you know, there's a
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: lot of guys from you know, out in the Sticks
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that are ranchers, are farmers, and farmers have a little
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: easier because they usually can't get in the field, especially
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: this year. They won't be until after we're out. But
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys are starting to ca right now,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: so their wives are at home, you know, having things out.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: The neighbors are helping them out. So it's a tough
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: gig if you're kind of a working man, how much
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of your job is balancing out all of Carbon County
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: versus Red Lodge. Like you got a lot of people
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: bitching about, like out of staters in Red Lodge and
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: second homes and yeah, it's it's more of the ideologies.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's not. There's some really good people on
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: both sides. I mean, you get people that have lived
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: here for five generations can be you know, just as
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: one side or the other. Yeah, people in Red Lodge
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: can be if it's like, oh there, they got to
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: be from California and be super liberal, and it's like, why,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I know, guys from California, they're like more conservative than
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: anybody else in the county. So it's it's not so
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: much like where you're from or where you live. It's
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: more about just kind of how you think about things,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: and people tend to group together. So it is, you know,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the county is a lot more agricultural, rural people have
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: been around for a while, a lot more farm you know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: kind of production and of based, and Red Lodge is
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a lot more of retirement. And then you've got the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: ski hill, so you kind of get that aspect to,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: you know, get more more people that just kind of
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: in and out, it feels like, to ski and hang out,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: so you kind of get some of that too. So
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it's definitely it's definitely. It totally is you know. That's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: like I tell people, it's like, this is exactly like
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: if you took Montana and squished into one county. It's
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: like that's Carbon County because you've got kind of like this,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody jokes like it's the hippie town. You know,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: all the people that live out there, and it's like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, the mountain town a little more
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: palatable for some people. I don't know, and but it's
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: like it's kind of like Missoula. You know, you've got
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: that kind of that type of group, that dynamic and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: then you've got the two river valleys in Carbon County.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: We have the Clark's Fork and Rock Creek, which is
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: kind of like the Missouri, and you know, the Yellowstone,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and then Southeastern County is all just sage brush nothing.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It's like if you go to broad Us, it's like
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: people live out here. It's just nothing. And then there's oil.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: There's oil and southeastern part of the county. And then
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of cold to you know, Carbon
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: County they named it that because of the coal mine
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: there in Bear Creek, so you have some of that industry,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: and so it is. It really is kind of like
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a little microcosma Montana. And then you got the mountains,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the Western slopes and yeah, everything, a lot
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of turkeys you have to drive to. You guys, got
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: many fox squirrels. Any fox squirrels in the district. Fox
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: squirrel they're definitely there. I know, no, I'm I'm looking
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: at my retirement home out there, and not for the
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: skin for the squirrels, damn it. Okay, and then uh so,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: so Seth is with us, and then uh be honest
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: of course, Ben O'Brien, OKAYL four or six, Sam Lon Uh, dude,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: rolled in real quick, Dude, rolled in. We're talking. We're
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: talking about chasing a little bit chapass, chafing. Ro In
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: He chafed when he swims. That doesn't doesn't seem in
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: salt water freshwater, saltwater, he says, a lot worse chafes
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: when he swims. Yeah, I can see that I can't
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: chase in salt water. Freshwater. Yeah, I mean you got
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you got sand mixing around, and you know, just kind
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of that abrasiveness of saltwater. I feel like, you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I've been ashing around snorkeling and cheese stuff and chafing,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: not about the presence of moisture. Yeah, I don't know, man,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: But how do we define like what causes chafe his skin?
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: It depends because you're saying it's a big man's problem
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of contact. Yes, like my legs
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: don't brush. No, you know. So that's why most people
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: think of like when chafing, you think of chapass, because
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: everyone's like most people are going to have some skin
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on skin contact and their gluteal crease. But uh, I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: was reading the thing the up Michigan's Upper Peninsula where
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I live very briefly. Uh, they're just getting walloped. There's
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: a dear biologist in the up saying, if things continue this,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: this winner keeps humming along like it is. He's predicting
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: they will lose forty percent of their white tailed deer
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: this winter. That's wild. I had our local biolog just
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: told me the highline lost forty percent in some areas
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: last year. Man, you think hunters killed here? Uh? Talked
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: about the tuna, big correction. I was talking about the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: great poet Robert Service, and I mentioned like American poetry,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and boy, that got some Canadians riled up, he said,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: A guy Rhode. He says, as a Canadian in a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: British Columbian, I worry about our culture being overshadowed by
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: America and our attempts to maintain a distinct identity from
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: our southern neighbors. And he even spelt it that cute
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Canadian way. You just put that you in there for emphasis.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: He was like real worked up about misidentifying Bob Service,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: but that he was born in England, so let's oh,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: so they can't even claim to school in Scotland. He
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: moved to Scotland he was five. It was born in England.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: So sorry, sorry, bro, how don't need to hear from
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: any Scotsman. Spend so much time in the Yukon too,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, if you're in the Yukon, you definitely
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: differentiate yourself from those folks down in British Columbia. So
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I guess I think him as an American poet because
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's where his audiences. Yeah, and it's English.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: He's a British Canadian American poet. And then he and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we just kind of appropriate anything. Yeah, you just pick,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: like if it's something in Cannon and you like it,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you just act like it's American and then it is.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I think he's spent like forty years, like the last
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: forty years of his life in Europe, in London, Paris.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Bob Service, propert service. Yeah, I call Robert Frost Bob Frost,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and I call Robert Service Bob Services. I think it
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: makes more. You know, you know the poems of Bob Frost, right,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: like that that thing about building fences. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: he was the he was an American poet. Laureatette Bob Frost.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: He's got that poem where the two dudes are like
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: they spend all their time building a fence between their properties,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: like good fences make good neighbors and like an old
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: stone Savage and that you realize all they care about
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: is like very carefully delineating the line between their properties,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and that's like what they dedicate their lives too. I
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: will admit that I definitely, I definitely disserviced Robert Service,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: uh because my impression of him. Uh. So I bought
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: a book of collected works from the air little airport
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: shack in King sam And Alaska. They sell Robert Service books. Yeah,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: because they want They're like, oh, I think they wanted
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: everybody that likes to like lay claim just like you're
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: saying that you're down on you're saying you don't like
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: his poetry because it all rhymes. No, no, no, this
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: was I just bought his book while I was waiting
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: on our plan out to the peninsula to go hunt
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: brown bears. And it was just like winter would not
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: leave and spent a ton of the trip, you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: shoulder to shoulder with three other dudes in a tent.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a Bob Service poem. Oh yeah, And
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: so I was super into Robert Service and just but
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I had like reading that book front back twelve different
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: times on that trip, I'd kind of come to the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: conclusion that there's no way this guy got stationed in
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the Yukon because he was a cracker jack banker, you know.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I figured that he was put out there because he
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: kind of had like some drug or alcohol problems. And
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: then you know, all of his poems talking about like
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the working class. Um, it just kind of got ingrained
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: in my brain that this guy probably did what a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: lot of poets and writers do is die bad death
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: somewhere destitute, drunk under some bridge exactly. But that's not
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the case at all. Turned out be quite quite a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: straight arrow. Yeah, And I didn't didn't learn that until
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: just recently. So it made some money off. He was
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the most wealthy writer in Paris at one time, especially
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: died drunk under a bridge. A less interesting this way,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: right if you would. Nowadays are too lazy to rhyme
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: all their poems, and that guy had that work ethic
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that needs to go into like rhyming that stuff out
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to the bitter end, just get not only like he
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: had a pretty sizable fortune going and then um he
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: couldn't when World War one broke out he couldn't join
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: up because of his physical condition, so he joined the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Red Cross and uh yeah, litter bearer and one a
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: bunch of medals. He sounds like too good a dude
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: to be a poet, Like the poet should be under
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: a bridge drum screaming at people. Yeah, juice, were did
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: you just use the word litter bear? Yeah? Have we
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: talked about um to the movie Tombstone? Oh not for
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: a long time, but I know where you're going with that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: The yeah, huckle bear so real quick, and I gotta
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: get onto some of the stuff we're talking about that
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: we're talking about shooting with South. So it's okay. I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's true. I haven't looked into this,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: but I've heard this. Everyone knows that that it's in Tombstone, right.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: The dude Aceman from Top Gun and he plays uh
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Bell kim Kilmer. Bel Kimbers. Also, I'll point out very
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: good in heat Michael Man movie. So Bell Kimber says
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: to a feller, I think he's fixing to shoot him maybe,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: or someone's fixing to shoot someone. Kilmer says, I'll be
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: your He's like, do it shoot me or whatever. Pull
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: your gun. I'll be your huckleberry. Okay, you know what
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the hell is that mean? No one knows what that means.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Someone was telling me, and listeners will write it and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: hopefully clarify this point. Someone's telling me that he messes
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that he messed the line up, or someone the writer's
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: messed it up, or something I messed up. The expression
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: is he's like, go ahead, you know, pull your gun.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I will be your huckle bearer, which would be a
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: term for he's saying, try it. I'll be your pall bearer. Yes, not,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I'll be your huckleberry. Have you watched it like ten
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: times in a row to make sure that he actually
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: does say it, like five five times, I'm your huckleberry,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Johnny Ringo. Someone just I shouldn't have brought it up.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Bring up. You should never bring up stuff you don't
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. He was too hot strung,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: real quick, real quick, um quick question for you. Guy
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: writes in he's got I can't really understand it. He's
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: got a bow that it maxes out at sixty pounds,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and he's like, man, I want to go elk Hunton.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Can I am I your responsible to lhunt with my
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: sixty pound bow. I guessing compound? Yeah, absolutely not, absolutely
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: not not not dude, my long total. Yeah, yeah, just
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: understand what your weapon can do. That's all all matter.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Get close, don't be bombing him at sixty yards. Sixty
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: pound compounds like an eighty pound long bow. I mean,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: how many guys hunt with eighty pound longbows? Has a
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: heavy air? Was heavy air? You should be shooting heavy
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: air with the sixty pound bow, six blade broad head
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and a heavy arrow. Go to town. I'm not a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: humongous man. Um, I'm not a longest man, but I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: pulled quite a bit more than that. That's what I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: was just curious. But I don't know what his circumstances.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: How what are you pulling? I shoot seventy yeah, uh okay.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Guy rode in from the military and he says, you
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: guys are talking about whether you used when you're trying
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to explain to someone where something is. So you're you're
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: looking out on the landscape and you're like, are you
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: see a deer? And you're trying to explain where the
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: deer is? And we were talking about whether you should
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: that's described as talking someone into something or talking someone
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: onto something. He says military feller. He says, it seems
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: like the hegemony. His words settled down the former. Now
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: he's a US Air Force Joint Terminal Attack Controller. J
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: our job is to call in air to ground fire
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: in support of ground forces. They damn sure talk people
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: on to something. They do not talk someone into something. Um,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: he has more call in fire though. You don't call
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: on fire. So you're calling him onto it. But you
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: call in fire. So that's a good point, he says.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Assuming every one of us has more or less the
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: same knowledge base, what really sets a good j tech
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: from a great one is our ability to get aircraft
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: overhead and talk there sold to straws. You know, are
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you following all this? Talk their soda straw sensor onto
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: a target expeditiously and facilitate fire. The term we use
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: is talk on, because you are verbally moving the pilot's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: eyes from the known to the unknown. We work big
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: too small. Also, whichever direction you are facing is twelve
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: o'clock as opposed to changing it. Every time you talk
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: on to a known spot, that part I don't understand.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: So you find your fixed point. It's like on a hillside,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: you all right, the big tree everybody got the big tree. Alright,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: the deer's you know, twelve o'clock, So you are the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: known point because he knows where you are, so that
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: that's what I was wandering. He knows where the person is.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So then you're designating off of all right, my twelve o'clock,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: because otherwise it's changing no matter where he is, and
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: he always knows where the guy's facing. Now here's the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: hottest laser designator. Here's the hottest j tech tip they're
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: not going to adopt from now on. We're talking about
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: using as a unit of measures. So let's say you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: have a thing. Let's say that happens to be a
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: deer by a school bus, and everybody can agree like
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that's a school bus comment scenario. Yeah, you'd be like, um,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: trying to explain distance. What they do is you pick
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: something out on the landscape and make that a unit
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a distance unit. So let's say you can agree on
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a alone cedar tree on a ridge top and the
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: deers somewhere off to the right. You take the width
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: of that known cedar tree and that becomes your unit
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of measurement. That'd be a shitty one because it'd be
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: very small so also you'll be talking about well fifty okay,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: but let's say you're talking sure, but whatever he's just saying, like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: pick a known thing and make unit distance units often
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: known thing. So if let's say it's a let's say
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the deer is pretty close, someone can't see you, Like, okay,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that's our unit of measurement. Yes, three, go three of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: those over. Rather being like a little bit a teeny ways,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: D're always trying to do just like at what point
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: your yards are mine? We're always like like twenty yards.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: But I don't know how the hell many you could
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: go with there and wind up it's ten yards of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: sixty yards. Make a unit of measurement and march their
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: eyes on that unit of measurement. I've done it with
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: clouds before. Is that stupid? Yeah? You see that big
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: moving cloud just turned into a mustache or go to
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the right, go to the right of the mustache. Um
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: on the subject, name and guns. A little bit of
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: feedback from people, the guys saying that you can't name you.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: One guy says that he has a rifle and he
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: gave it a name, and he feels okay with it
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: because he has a six five by sixty eight or
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: six five by sixty eight, which then he knows a gun.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I've six five by sixty eight, That's what he says.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: And he even says that he times since it's six
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: five x sixty eight, he times it out, it comes
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: out to four forty two, so he calls it the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: four forty two. Another guy was saying, you can't the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: same way you can't give yourself a nickname. If you're
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: gonna nickname a gun, it can only be given by
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: other people who name the gun. The same way you
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: can't give yourself a nickname somewhat legitimate. Yeah, his buddy
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: has a gun. He keeps too much oil on it,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and one time he dropped a duck hunting and an
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: oil that came off it, and so they call his
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: shotgun the Valdies. I guess that guy. That's that guy.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: He's got a dog and who named the dog. This
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: is the last, the last note I'm ever gonna give
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: about cheese kurds or top so like cheese curds. When
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: you buy on they squeak. If you've been to Wisconsin,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you know about this. It's the only thing I like
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: about Wisconsin, except for Doug during that's a joke. But
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: cheese curds, like when you buy them, they get squeaky.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Then you leave them laying around and they lose your
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: squeak and doug during it feels as though it's like
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a sin against God and man, he's like, why would
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you ever let your courage sit around so long that
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: they lose your their squeaking, Like if you let him
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: sit that long, you don't deserve to have squeaky kurds.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And these boys in Elroy, Wisconsin were telling us that
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you leave him on the dashboard your truck and the sun,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: they'll re squeak. Someone was telling us that if you
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: microwave them, they'll get squeaky again. This guy is saying,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the absolute best way to revive your neglected cheese kurds
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: is to place them into a colander and run a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: hot water over them for about a minute. They will
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: be not just as good, he says, and he makes
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a parenthetical if not better, then right when they came
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: out of the vat. Okay, I'll be trying that because
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin Turkey seasons coming up. Um can I can? I
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: go ahead? It's not gonna start asking seth questions. I
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: got one that might be a good way to lead
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: into can you can you pivot off it? Yeah, it
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: might be able to. I got to and I'll see
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: if we can do this first one quickly. The dude
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: wrote in this is interesting because it's kind of it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: kind of about shooting, but he's got a predicament that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: he's found himself in twice. I want you guys all
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: weigh in and see if what you guys are doing
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: this situation. He went back country'll hunting in Colorados, buddy,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And on the third year they went back three times.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: They finally got into a bowl on the last day,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Um it was and they trade days on who gets
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to be the shooter and who's calling right, So it
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: his day to shoot. Bull comes in, He's gonna have
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: a perfect shot. Back up, What about the three years
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: they've been Yeah, they've been hunting three years. I haven't
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: got a shot yet, I haven't killed nothing. Now on
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the third year, last day, it's his it's his day
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to shoot, and Bull steps out and right as he's
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: getting ready to shoot, he hears another bow go off.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: He sees the arrows smoked this bull, and he ends
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: up still punching his trigger. Because it's just like he's like, whoa,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: what the and and and shoots an arrow to his
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: arrow hits in the paunch. Bull goes like thirty yards,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: tips over and dies, ends up being a nice six um.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And he's like, dude, thought it was my day to shoot, right,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh really I thought it was mine,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Like sorry, and so hold on a second, hold on
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a second. This fight, the two guys are hunting together. Yea,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: they're calling a bowl and he's saying that both of
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: them simul like virtue like almost simultaneously launch arrows, both
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: hit the one that seems to me can you look
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: at and be like, are you oh you're drawn your
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: bows drawn? Are they with each other or are they
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: in different spots? Because if they could see each other,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: it's not like a subtle thing you're doing there. Typically
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: set up is like twenty to fifty yards spread out,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: one guy in front, one guy typically, but I mean
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I've also called in bulls standing right next to the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: dude and been whispering in his ears when to draw
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: a bow. So yeah, I don't know, thick timber. He
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: could have been ten yards away and definitely been could
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: have drawn and been doing jumping Jackson. The other guy
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have to see what was so anyways, Uh, they
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: split the meat like it always happens, and uh they
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: can decide on who should get the antlers. The dude
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: who was supposed to be shooting, Yeah, he got a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: bad hit. He got a bad hip. I have not killed.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: He blamed his bad hit on the fact that the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: other guys shot. That's what I was thinking right now.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: They're going when they're they alternate years, they swap it
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: out each other's houses. It seems like two nice guys, right, Yeah,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of guys that would not be
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: so nice. I saw it down in the middle, and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: does he each have an antlic That's what I'm saying.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't you know what, you know what he might
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: not be realizing you can do when you saw something
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: in half. He probably don't realize how you're supposed to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: put that to your wall would be pretty bitch in
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: his half. Learn don't put it aiming out, you cut
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: it down the school. Did they mounit or just have
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the school? I didn't say they mounited. I don't know
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do. No one wants to saw
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it wants, and that's just the old school. If it's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the old school, where he's looking where the mount is
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: a shoulder mountain looking dead nuts forward, so you can
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: put it right on the wall, so then you can
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: split it, turned it sideways and plastered against the wall.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: That actually, if it's the school, you cut it and
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: don't have him looking out. You have him plastered against
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the wall, which looks very cool. Yeah, and then you're
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: like kind of artistic, maybe an innovator. Your wife's gonna
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: like it to get a house with the same floor
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: plan too. That'd be help that'd be helpful. We were
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: going to do that. One time. We were gonna band
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: saw a buck down the middle because it kind of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: kind of stepped out in a narrow opening, and a
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: buddy and I were ten yards apart and just both
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: pulled up and fired both hit it. And what happened?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Who got to keep it? Uh? We we split the meat,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: brought it back um, and we talked about it, all
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: sorts of stuff we were going to do. And the
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: school was lying around for a while, and I did
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the European mount and it was sitting in my house
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and who tagged it? Kept senting I tagged it. I
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: feel like whoever tags it, but we were going to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: cut that he never he never asked for it, never
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: asked for it back and kind of think got out
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of hunting and he kind of blocked his number. But like,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I st't know, but whoever tagged it took a hit, right,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: You don't know that they're taking that they're filling the
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: tag for the team. You took the question to a
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: game warden. To game warden, would wanted to go to
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: who tagged it? And if you did a curvy shoulder
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: a mount with the deer's looking at curvy and then
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: you split it dead nuts down the spine and split
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the thing, then you have a curvy wall, which is tricky. Yeah,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: you have to in a castle. Yeah, or they have
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the planetarium or or they have the parapet um seth.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: You were telling me, so you kind of walked us
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: through the thing of how you became a competitive shooter. Um,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: how First I want to ask you another question. I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: want to get into how this all happens, how a
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: fellow gets into this. But you were telling me that
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that you used to shoot pistols competitively, right, So that's
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: why I did o how to stay with pistol. And
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: you're saying that some guys set the trigger so light
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that if you pointed towards the sky and shake it,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it goes off. Yeah, so that's an event that they
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: actually just removed from the Olympics. But it's called shooting
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: this not for that reason. For that reason, it's called
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: where you just run around. So they're some of those
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: guys are running like fifty to seventy Graham triggers on
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: those things. It's called it's called free pistol, and so
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: it sounds super dangerous, but the reality is is that
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: you've got it right. You've got your pistol pointed downrange
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and you it's most of them are some sort of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: falling block, you know, So you're one explain folks. So it's, uh,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like the Ruger number ones if you've
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: ever seen those. You've got a little switch on the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: bottom where you just flicking open, it drops a block down,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: You put the bullet in, your close it back up,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the block comes up and locks it in. So it's
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: kind of a like a block mechanism behind the chamber,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: and that's how most of them works. I'm sort of
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: falling block for the single shot, so it's twenty two.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: You put your round in, lock it, and then you're
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: aiming down your lane and there's usually you know, they
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: have wind breaks or something. So you've got six or
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: eight shooters and you know, maybe four that are wide,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: and then you've got your targets outdoor you shoot it's
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: fifty meters away. Yeah, so you kind of damn hard
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: with the pistol. Yeah, and it's about a to just
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: under two inch bowls eye at fifty so it's I
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: mean it's smaller in a coffee cup. Lad, So they're
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: two small. So if you come up and you were
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: to accidentally, you know, touch this thing off, that's a
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: zero and it's ten ten nine eight out is how
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: it scored. So you dropped ten points on one shot
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and you gotta count, I mean you count it, so
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: that's ten points down. No, it's well, it's international international
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: pistol style, so it's Olympic they shoot it all over
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: the world Cups. And did you ever shoot that competition?
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Which one free? The more talk about yep, yep free
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: was one of my events in college that I shot.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So raising a pistol and shooting something that's two inches
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in diameter at fifty yards, So we shot a lot
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of indoor. Your fifty foot indoor targets about the size
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of a dime for your ten ring, how many shots
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: in a roll can you put in there? The best
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I've ever done is like eleven I think out of
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: sixty in a row um for a full match in
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the twenties somewhere. The key with three pistol is not
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: screwing up and shooting seventh and eight. So if you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: shoot a bunch of tens, if you can hold the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: nine ring, that's like the world's best shooters are pretty
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: much holding nine ring with a lot of tens, and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: your nine rings at fifty about I don't know, four
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: inches probably, So it's about keeping a group. And now
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: they've changed some of that. They went away from if
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you touch the ring it scores higher to now they
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: do a lot of it on a decimal. So if
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you shoot a center center, it's ten point nine, and
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: if you shoot just touch on the edge of it,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it's a ten point zero, and if you go just
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: outside it's a nine point nine. So rather than going
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you know guys that can shoot super deep shots and
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: then throwing eight, you're going to score better than now
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: because it's all just decimals, so it's like how close
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: can you keep them to the middle, So it's a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: little bit more fair, I guess that way. Why did
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the Olympics get rid of this kind of thing, Well,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of it is. It's not Some of them
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: aren't super fun to watch. I mean, this is like
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: a marathon of shooting. So you're shooting at fifty it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: sixty shots in two hours, so it's super long. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with they've kind
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: of are going away from sports that aren't men and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: women together shoot. So you go to some of the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: rifle events, there's a lot more crossover. You're wearing jackets
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: and you're shooting in a more controlled environment and like
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: some of the ladies, I'll shoot the guys, whereas free
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: pistol is a more of a there's a lot more
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: physical involved. You don't get any real supports, you're not
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: wearing you know, jackets or pants or anything to make
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: your position better. Canvas yea canvas, like a super thick canvas,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: so you get locked in there and you literally or
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: can't even move, so it's super stable so they're kind
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: of going away from sports that can't be UM both genders,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I guess, and it's not super exciting to watch, I guess.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So so what are the other shooting sports that are
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: in the Olympics? UM live shotgun. That's a big one
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: in the shotgun because you know, you go to the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Middle Eastern some of those countries and shotguns a huge,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: huge deal. It's a big money sport in a lot
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of places. They do air pistol still, so air pistol,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: air rifle, and then small bowl rifle, and then they
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: still do rapid fire pistol, which is a twenty two
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: event where you've got five big bulls eyes, which is
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: what I shot when I went to the Army. They're
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: just big black bulls eyes at twenty five and your
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: tend rings pretty big, it's like three or three and
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: a half inches, and that's a more dynamics. So you
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: start with your gun at a forty five down and
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: they've got lights or turning targets. Most of the upper
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: class ones are lights and when the light goes off,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you gotta come up and one, two, five shoot your
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: shots and they do it eight seconds for your you
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: do two series of eight second, two, series of six second, two,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: series of four seconds. I've watched that before and it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: not boring at least, it's pretty cool. And they've changed
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: it for the finals to where rather than being scoring,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: if you're a nine point five, you get a hit.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Nine point five are better you get a hit. If
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: you're nine point four or lowers, it's a miss. So
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: when you come up, you just one to three and
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: then they just, oh, this guy got four hits. So
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: people can just look at that. It's really easy to oh,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: he shot a nine point nine. It's like, I don't
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: know what that means. What's a nine point nine or
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: ten point two. I really enjoy watching the biathlon. Yeah,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that's that's got to be my favorite at Olympics. That's
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: kind of the only one that I think people know
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: is in the Olympics, right, the other ones that's like
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the rest of them in summer. Yeah, yeah, not when
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: they're doing Olympic Games. Summer biathlon the own the winter
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: shooting sport, UM, I believe, so I don't think they
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: have any strict shooting sports. I think it's just the
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: ski and ski and shoot. What countries are the best shooters? Um?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: America is decent. It depends like shotgun, Like we're Vinca
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Hancock is. He's won gold medals that just about every
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Olympics that he's went to. So we've got some really
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: really solid shock. The most metal Olympians are shooters, right,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: A lot of them well besides you know, swimmers, but
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: um yeah, the so they've got shotguns. Good for US.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I'd say the big ones are UM, China is usually
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: pretty good, South Korea, some of those the Asian countries
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: put a lot of effort into it. Russia has a
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: really long standing tradition of shooting um super well, and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that kind of depends rapid fire. There's some Germans that
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: shoot really really well on rapid fire free pistol. It's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: kind of a mix. There's like you know, kind of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the bigger countries. A lot of the European countries are
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: really big indusries. So the people that just generally kick
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: ass at the Olympics. The US Russia like shooting pretty much,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: not like weird outliers, um not really shotguns kind of
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: one because you get like you know, azerber John has
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a shotgun shooter that comes out and it's like doing
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: really well. You know some random is there a wing
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: shooting culture in the Arab world? Um, Like, I know
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: there's big into falconry. I don't know, you know, I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: haven't really paid that much attention to it, but I know, um,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: when I was on the army team, they had a
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: shotgun team and those guys would go over and shoot,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: and I guess some of the places they go are
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: just super posh, you know, marble trap houses and all
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: sorts of craziness. Yeah, and talking about hunting, you know,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is like the sporting side,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: but one of the things that they that's big in
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the shotgun kind of almost like the underground, is they
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: do pigeon shoots. And so what they do is they
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: have a box with a spring in it, and then
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: they have a ring at like, you know, say forty
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: fifty yards across. I think it's smaller than that actually,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and it's got like a four inch fence and so
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: they've got this ring around it. So you sit back
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: at certain distances and they basically pushed the button and
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: it springs this pigeon out there can why, and then
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: you got to shoot the pigeon. If it falls inside
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the ring, you get the point and if it falls
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: outside of the ring, then you don't. That's not an
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Olympic game though, no, no, no, this is just I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: don't see that, you know, popular in America. I will
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: have admit to having done that before, and it's big money.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: But they still do tower shoots. AlOH yeah, some kid
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: climbs up in the tower and starts throws, starts throwing
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: peasants over the ring. I did it in the Dominican
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Republic and there was five boxes, right you say, pull
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and Stig street pigeon comes flying out of the one
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: of the five boxes and launches them. It launches them out,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It springs them out because they they're captives, so they
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: you know, pin their wings and they put them in
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the box, unpin them and they springs them out and
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: you shoot them if they fall. But before they get
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: over the fence, you get a point. What's the diameter
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: of the of the fence? Well, heat, No, it's not
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I've only ever done that one time and I decided
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that I probably won't do that again. You know, you
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: know how people never done it. But it's big money.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, people in the towers money on different shooters
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: and you can buy shooters and I'll cut us find
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: it's I mean, people are flying in on lear jets
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: to shoot these things, do you Honestand we talk about
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: turkey shoots like when I was a kid, I grew
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: up by a gun club, a private gun twenty gun club. Um,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: and if I'm not mistaken, man, actually I need to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I need to call some folks back home and ask
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: me if I'm not mistaken. They when I was a
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: little little kid, they would dig a ditch and put
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: turkeys in the ditch with just their head sticking out right. Yes, okay,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: And if you hit the turkey, you got to keep
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: it and bring it home and cook it for Thanksgiving.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: And it was a long ways out. It was like
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: remember it was like I feel like it was like
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: you had to use the twenty two and the turkeys
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: were way the hell out and you could just see
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: their heads behind a berm And if you could hit
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the turkey, that's your turkey. Do you feel like that's
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the origination of the term turkey. I don't think I'm
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm making this up. Put him in
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: a box. Yeah, the old school like these by the
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: time when I was a kid, shooting was you shot
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: a target and then you got a frozen turkey if
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you want, I think that was a PC version. It's
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: like competition. Yeah. Yeah. I did some work for my
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: buddy Randy Bam at a turkey slaughter facility. And if
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I was if you put me in a turkey, if
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: you made me a turkey and I had and you said, okay,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you're thanksgivings quickly approaching. Um. You can go to Bill Maher,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: the turkey slaughter facility that we did some working and
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: you'll die there. Or you can go to twin a
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: gun club and die there. I would go to twin
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: a gun club to die. Can we can we clarify
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that Bill Maher not like the comedian guy. He doesn't know.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Oh no, it's like b I L hyphen M A R.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I think, look at these guys that up, these guys slaughter.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I think when they're gearing up, I feel like they're
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: slaughtering twenty thousand turkeys in a day or something like
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the or some insane number. And it's like a dude,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: it's a turkey. Turkeys runner un Turkeys would get out
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: of the trucks and get away and once they hit
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the ground because they're all in a controlled environment. So
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: we had all we had all the materials, like Ronnie
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: eas Millwright, and we we'd have our materials in the
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: parking lot and you'd come in the morning and you'd
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: find turkeys hiding out in the parking lot in our
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: material like because they'd get out of the truck and
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: once they got the truck, they couldn't massle them. And
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: so the turkeys go try to find a place to hide,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and guys that work with catch those turkeys, bring them home.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: And remember this guy Rick, he made a little cage
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: at home. It would take the turkeys he caught out
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the parking lot and put him in the cage and
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: fatten them up in the cage and make smoke turkeys
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: out of him. Good old day. If it's if it's
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: more PC. If it's more then it's it's not even
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: political cracktics whatever. If it's if it's regarded as more
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: ethical to have a guy hit a target and give
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: him a frozen turkey, I I just challenge that. I'm
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: not I have no opinion on the matter, but I
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: just my coming up. It had changed right, it was
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a turkey shoot, like I were on the turkey shoot
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and all the ones I did were muzzle order based,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: so it was all black powder open sites. And I
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: want to remember when into my first frozen turkey was
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: quite the accomplishment. I think I took a picture with it,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: like Griffin Grinn do you know? Daring? Um, I'm gonna
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: pivot back into uh Wayne shooting whatnot? Daring? The Clinton administration,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: they very early on when they first identified Ben Ladden
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: as a threat. They he was out hunting birds in
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: the desert at a falconry camp and they debated hitting
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: him there. This is like way back like ninety two
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: or something like that. They debated hitting him there, but
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: there was some other high profile sawdies who were also
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: hunting out of that same camp, and they decided against it.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: So they almost got him hunting A good way to
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: go that that that was my pivot because watch, I'll
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: wrap it up. So since they you know there's that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: bird hunting culture through falconry, there's also a shotgunning culture there.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: And you were a competitive shotgun shooter. I never really
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: shot competitively. Well, I thought that, So what did you
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: do in high school? Shot um pistol? Pistol, That's what
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: it was. And then for some reason I thought you
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: you went and you were doing like the competitive wing shooting,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: not wingshooting, but ski I shot it a little bit,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: played with it. I had my roommate shot competitively, but yeah,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I was always pistol all the way through. How did
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: you how did you first, like start, how did you
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: get into that? So I kind of started through a
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: local club when I was in high school and buildings
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: we had on the competitive side and we shot small
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: bow rifle, twenty rifle and then uh air rifle, and
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: so I shot that for a couple of years and
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: then and I was okay. But there's a it's a
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: lot of uh kind of building up a system of shooting.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're trying to get your position now in lockdown.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: That's most of what rifle shooting is is the position.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: So you're trying to get super stable so that you're
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: right literally doesn't move, and it takes a while to
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: kind of develop that. So right, so you're shooting three position,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: you're shooting offhand, kneeling and prone and prone. Obviously it's
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: pretty easy. Everything's with a sling and peep sites, so
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: that that's pretty easy, and getting into your kneeling and
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: off hand positions takes a little bit more time. So
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I was decent, but not really great. And then I
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: started shooting pistol as kind of an add on to that,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: and it was a lot better at pistol, and I
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it more. There's you know, to put them all
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: the jackets and drag your suitcase around with all your gear.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm I'm a little bit less structured in that regard,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: so I had more fun with it. How good can
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: a person get with its funny to you rifle? Um?
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Pretty good? Like what kind of hundred yard group can
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you shoot with the twenty two oh under an inch?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Like with a sling and a shooting just off a sling,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: prone shooting offhand stuff, Um, they don't really shoot hunter.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: All their matches are fifty yards. So but most guys
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: that are good can hold pretty much hold half inch
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: group shooting all the way through three position. Yeah, they'll
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: they'll drop some points, but prone it's to be a
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: competitive at the pro level, you have to shoot at
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: six sixty out of sixty at fifty yards and that's
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: wind calls. So you're shooting your you know, it's about
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: half an inch bulls eye that you're shooting at. So yeah,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: if you're at the not even the national level, the
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: top two or three guys will I'll be cleaning them
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: sixty out of sixty shooting peep sites. Have you hunted
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: squirrels much a little bit or cotton tails? Yeah? I was.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I was stationed in Georgia, so George and Alabama is
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: pretty pretty much bout hunting all that stuff. So these
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: guys with hunt they could hunt, so they could hunt
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: squirrels and just shoot off hand and hit squirrels out
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: of the trees in the head. Yeah, those guys are
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: some of those guys are nuts. How well how well
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: they shoot? Yeah, I shoot a twenty two rifle decent.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I'm not you know, some of those guys are pretty good.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I alwaysally just messed around to take my
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: glock nine all to go squirrel hunting. Just get get
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: up on that and you could get that good with that. Yeah,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I can hit squirrels with it. Okah. Best So funny story.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: A buddy of mine, who's who's it back in the
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: service now, he's actually one of the Special Forces groups. Now,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I was in the marksmanship unit with we were teaching classes,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: because when you're in the Army Marksmanship Unit, it's kind
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: of a duel. You have to be an instructor and
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: a competitive shooter. So you you do your training and
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: you compete, but you also were on the instructor instructing
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: side of it. And the unit started in fifty six
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and the the idea was is, hey, we need to
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: figure out how to teach people to shoot well. So
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: what's what better way to do that than have people compete?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: And then they learned the best way of doing everything,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: and then they convert that to the military and then
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: teach all the joes. So that was kind of the
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: mission statement of the unit and it stayed pretty much
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the same all the way through. And that was the
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: unit you were in. Yeah, yeah, the Army Markmanship Unit.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: And it's and that's they're still you know, your titles
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: a shooter instructor, so your training, but then you're also
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: going in teaching, which I found that to be, uh,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: probably the more rewarding side of it, just because you're
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: working with guys that just could literally save their life
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, help them to be effective. So we
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: had a class and we were teaching. There was about
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: twenty guys, and it was a close quarters marksmanship c
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: q M stuff. So you're shooting rifle, you know, car
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: beings and pistols out to fifty yards. It's kind of
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the running gun if you think shooting type stuff. So
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: we're at this class and a lot of the guys
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: to qualify, we had a six inch dot at fifteen
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: yards and that was kind of the standard that we
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: tried to get them too by the end of the class.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: So everybody was kind of shooting, and it was lunchtime,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: and whenever it is lunch, we had amman around and guns,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: so we always just kind of kept shooting. So my
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: buddy was out there shooting and we look up on
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the berm and it's kind of about eighty yards this berm,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: and then maybe thirty or forty up to the top,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: and there's this fox squirrel that's running along this berm,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: and so we see this thing like I was like, hey, hey,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: there's a squirrel up there. So of course, you know,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: it's open season on squirrels, and we're like all right.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: So the squirrel kind of comes down the berm a
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: little bit and Buddy walks forward yards. He's not right
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: next to the class. They're all kind of sitting under
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: this covered area and this squirrels maybe seventy eight yards
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: away and it's sitting in this tree, and so he
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: pulls out his glock, you know, thirty four. It's like
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: a long slide clock, nine millimeter, and everybody's looking at
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: him like, yeah, there's no way, you know, we've been
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: trying to hit the six inch dot. So he shoots
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: and I think he missed his first shot at it.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Second shot, he smoked this thing and it's like hanging
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: from the tree. So he shoots again, missed his third shot,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: shoots again, hits it again. It's fourth time and it falls.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: So he runs up there and grabs the squirrel. So
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: it was really funny watching the expression on all these
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: guys's face. They're like, this guy just shot a squirrel
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of a tree like eighty yards away with a nine
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: millimeter clock. So that's how that's kind of where you
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: can get with some of that stuff. So those guys
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: that you shoot all the time, it's just it's crazy
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: how accurates something you can get, especially with a pistol.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: You know, we carry pistols for bare protection sometimes and
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: now and then we'll get around shooting the pistols. It's embarrassing.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: It's so hard. Well, we took one class um from
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: really well known instructor. By the end of that class
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: we get all hit uh gong at a hundred yards
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: with uh and it's it's form, man form and and
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: just and the mental thing. There's like a mental thing
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: and like I can't hit stuff with a pistol. And
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: it's like then you watch somebody pull up and shoot
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: a man sized target at like two hundred yards like
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: ding ding ding ding ding ding, and you're like, Okay,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: it's voodoo, and it's like, no, it's not. You just
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: have to you gotta get your mind right. There's like
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a certain way of thinking about pistols and triggering in
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: sights and then once you get the form, like how
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: to lock it down. The most the most shooting disciplines
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: are like that, right, I mean, shooting a thousand yards
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: with the rifle seems intimidating until you lay down and
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: have somebody tell you how to do it. Yeah, it's true.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: You have a spot or to you know, to walk
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you through it, and you've got control. I think that's
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the other thing about pistols. It's there's nothing. There's no
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: support system where rife. But you've got a stock and
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: you've got you know, you can kind of make it
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: stop moving and keep it from like twitching. It's like pistol,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: any little thing. It's all about the mechanics of how
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: you're shooting it, and it goes back to just repetitions.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: But that was kind of our thing in training. It's
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: the most boring thing in the world, but trying to
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: get your hold super super tight. So we would literally
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: hold against a wall for half hour forty five minutes
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: a day, and you work on body sway because you
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: naturally sway when you stand, so you're trying to eliminate
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: all that so that you're not moving your site back
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: and forth on the target. You say, hold against the wall.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: You just had your arm up. Yeah, but what does
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: that mean like you're pushing. Nope. You just take a
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: pistol and you hold it about a foot from the
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: wall and you've got a dot and you just try
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: and hold it on that dot. Is basically work through
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: your body and try and get all the movement out
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: and just work on keeping that as still as possible,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: and you kind of build up all your little stabilizer muscles.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: But it's it's crazy how tight you can hold with
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: the pistol once you've if you've trained that for so long,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: because if you're shooting that something so small, you can't
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: be if you're moving around a lot, you know your
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: wobble area. You're trying to get that as small as possible,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: and then you just it's like any other pistol. You're
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: trying to break it inside that little wobble. But the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: smaller you get it, the more consistent you'll be in
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the more you know your score will go up. How
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: much do your sites matter to you? Like if you
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: have all your mechanics that matters if because you think
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: about it, you know if you're off by a millimeter
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: on your side alignment, that's throwing you off by inches
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: at even fifty feet, so you know it it sites
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: front sight, side alignment. The targets blurry when we shoot,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: you're just it's literally just locking those sights in. And
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: we had the national coach name is Sergey lose Off.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: He was a Russian shot running target over in Russian
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: and then came over with a pistol coach, so he
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: had an accent. But he's like, you know, and I
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: don't know if I can do a good Russian accent
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: or not, but he's like Ukrainian. I think, all right, Russia,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: we're pretty what you have to do, He's like, it's
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: like we have It's like you got to think about
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: it like this. It's it's like your front sites are
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: not like this. Uh, you're just watching this child walk
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: around the room. He's like, he's like, you have to
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: grab the child and slam him on the on the
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: table and like holding there. That's how you work. The
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: sites sounds Russian and I was like, oh sir, He's like,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: you know, they're not just passive. It's like you need
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: to grab them. I was like, okay, okay, I got it.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Sites are important. Can you Is there anyone that makes
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Does anyone make money shooting competitively? Is there any like paid? Um? Well,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: if you're good, that's the key. And I know some
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: of the guys that I shot within the unit, like
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: three guns pretty a lot of guys get out and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: they go work for you know, some of the guys
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: that were went now top shooter for cig for instance.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: So you go get an industry job like that, Yeah,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: you make good money or um vincent Um that shoots
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: shotgun a lot of Hancock. He's a you know, multi
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: time gold medalists, so he's out of the army now
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: and does a lot of training seminars so he'll go
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: and has his own kind of training system and does that.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: So you can make money on that side of it.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: But generally speaking, unless you're really really good or you
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: get sponsorships, there's not when you're not going out and
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: winning a hundred thousand dollars. YEA three gun is really
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the main one where guys could make because you're gonna
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: get sponsored by several companies that basically pays. There's some payouts.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Explain three gun for people. So three gun is uh,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: it's an action sport where you're shooting rifle, pistol shotgun.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: So it's a running gun. Anybody that shot like I,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: D P A, U, s P, s A, any of
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: the action pistol stuff. You're running those guns and there's
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: different classes so you can run. Some of them are
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: race guns ports and a dot on them don't even move.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: And then you've got limited which is more you know,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: you have to shoot iron sights and you're limited on
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: some of your magazine stuff, and then production is just
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: like a stock glock. You can change a couple of things,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: but not a lot, so there's different classes. And then
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: it's just running through a course and you'll have you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: a R fifteen target air fifteen rifle and you're shooting
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: targets that are either paper steel, so you have like
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: knocked down fall down plates. You know a lot of
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: steel and it's either two hits on steel or one
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: hit on steel knock them over. And then you've got
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: paper targets with rings so like a ring b ring
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: you know, see ring type stuff. So you're just running
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: through a course and you have it all three guns
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: at once, not not usually some of them. Um so
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: there's a match and I haven't shot a lot of
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: three guns, but they had had a match that um MGM.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: It's like the metal target company they sponsored out in Idaho,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: like eastern southeastern Idaho called the Iron Man, and so
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: their stages were I mean you'd run a stage and
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: be like four or five minutes long, and you have
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: to drag dummies and like have weights and you shoot
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: i mean like sixty shots a shotgun and you start
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you're like loading a shotgun, go through like four magazines
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: on your pistol, and it was just super long stages
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: and you're running through and so they say you start here,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: you gotta shoot this bank of targets and you could
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: miss stuff and you know, you're trying to keep track
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: of everything and like, oh, you didn't see that target,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: and so that's those are kind of fun. And then
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are more controlled, where's a tight
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: stage and you just kind of run through and play
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: the game and it's all about speed and accuracy. So
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: how fast can you move? The guys that are really
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: really good at it, you can break down the stage
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: and find the least amount of movement. And it's they
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: don't tell you how to shoot anything, so you can
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: shoot pretty much any order as long as you're not
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: you know, shooting back. It's like a one eight plane
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: that you can't break and people just work through it
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty cool that like hitting all the targets. Yeah,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: and you're just trying to, you know, go through and
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: hit everything as fast as you can and the least
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: amount of movement and then it's all time time versus hits. Yeah,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of times they'll be a shooting house or
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: like to answer your question about where the guns are,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: you'll have like a barreled shotguns and some of them
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: are or air fifteen on the table, so you know,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: some of them make you pack them so you shoot
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: it and then you gotta sling it. Like that's where
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I was going with the Iron Man. It's like you
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: gotta sling stuff and carry it sometimes. But a lot
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: of them, like you said, you shoot your pistol drop
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: in a box, grab your rifles. Should your rifle drop
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: in a box, grab your shotgun, finish it out, clear it.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: So that's to keep it safe. And are the mill
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: a dude? The military guys dominate this or there people
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: who've never been in the military, they're good at um. Both.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: It comes out of training. You know obviously in the unit.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: If you've got guns face you know that. Think cool
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: thing about the a m U is we had a
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: fully functional gun shop with full time guys that are
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: working on machining, I mean full on CNC machines. They
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: could pretty much redesign and build anything you wanted them to.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Full reloading room guys that all they do is reload
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: and test. So in terms of figuring out the market,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: you've got guys like that, which is obviously an advantage,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: but a lot of it's just time on the range
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and bullets range. It's time and run through, run through
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: your stages. Like everything has to be muscle memory. How
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: do I cut off a half a second on the
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: shotgun reload? How do I cut off half a second
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: on this movement? Half a second here? Because that adds
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: up and that's the difference between first and tenth. I
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: tried this some years ago, and it was reloading that
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: got me all the time. Reloading a shot shotguns horrible
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: and I was horrible, like fumbling everywhere. You drop around
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: like oh, pick that up, and then you know, if
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: you don't get them all in there, you're just gonna
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: miss one, like you just and then you got to
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: keep going. Yeah, but military is good. We we shot
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: some of that styled stuff, so there's kind of a
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: competitive side. And when we were in we stood up
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: a team. So the last year that was in the
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: unit actually went over we called the I T. G
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: and Structure Training Group and usually what we did we
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: had the pistol shooters kind of teach the close range stuff,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: you know. The Service Pistol International pistol, and then the
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: rifle shooters that were on the rifle teams, they taught
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: kind of the long range wind calling in position stuff
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and it worked okay, and what we did, um some
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: guys stood it up. And then I actually joined the
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: team after they had kind of started working on it
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: was to develop a curriculum that said, hey, we've got
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: guys like like myself and other guys have shot through
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: college and we had you know, six a ten years
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: of shooting experience. And then we had guys that came
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: over from like the third range of battalions at Fort Bennings.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of those guys would come over. So you've
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: got guys that have been deployed six ten times and
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time, you know, years in combat.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: And then you take those guys you say, all right,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: what's effective in combat? What's effective if you're if you're
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: in houses, if you're knocking on door, or is if
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: you shooting long range? What type of situations do you see?
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: How do you make this effective? And then we took
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: our shooting ability. So I know how to pull a trigger,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I know how to run a gun, but how do
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you kind of meld the two together so that you're
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: running a gun so it's combat effective and that was
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: really really cool, and then developing programs through that. So
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: we trained a lot of kind of three guns. But
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: it's like, how do you get your kid efficient? How
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: do you get the stuff quickly? How where do you
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: put your magazines? How do you set up your rifle
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: so that you're not you know, everything's quick inefficient. So
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: efficiency of movement is important no matter what what your shoot,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: if it's combat or if it's you know, training. I
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: think I told you this, uh over dinner, But one
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: time went down. I was the guest of Special Forces
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Group in Fort Bragg, and I went down into their
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: compound and I was surprised because I went out to
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: watch them train and they were training on something that
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: seems like so specific. They were spending the day training
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: on how to transition from your rifle to your pistol.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Right basically, they're training how to drop that and pull
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: your pistol out so and shoot a target with it.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: And it's it seems small, but you've got to think
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: about the situation that you're looking at. Okay, you you
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: bust into a building and all of a sudden there's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: guys popping out with guns and you pull the trigger
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and you hear the loudest sound in the world click, right,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and then what now. It's like, well, you can try
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: and clear your rifle and get around in it, or
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: you know, misfire. You don't necessarily know what's wrong. You
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: have some sort of malfunction. Well, we train, and it's
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: kind of been a transition in the military away from
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: we'll get your rifle up. Pistols are just there so
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: you can look good, I guess, to where it's like,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: no pistol can be an effective tool. So that's where
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: you see those transitions. It's like, and I know a
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: guy that I did some work with that had a
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: situation where this happened, and it's the same thing as
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: like click. He tried to clear it, click, and all
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, the guys turned around with a gun.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: It's like, what do you do now. It's like, well,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I've got a secondary weapon, because it's always primary secondary,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: that's how they train in the military. He's like, well,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: here comes the pistol and basically saved his life. So
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: that's why if you shoot it, it doesn't go and
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: you've got a threat in front of you. It's like
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: you have to get to your secondary as quickly as possible.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: And if it takes you three seconds to do that,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: which isn't a lot of time, but it's a whole
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: lot different than second half. That's why that's such an
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: important thing. And you know, you start from the ground up.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: That's where every little you train, every aspect. You start
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: with just a gunlow, bring a gun up and shoot,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: and then you bring a gun up and shoot left
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and right, you know, transition targets, and then you bring
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: up and shoot close near, and then you do a reload,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: and then you just kind of work your way through
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: every aspect and then that gives those guys ability to train,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: and you can do it without even shooting. You know,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: you can transition, you can do all that stuff, practice
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: movements and it's it's crazy how quick you can shoot
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: transitions and how fast you can move between gear and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: how fast you do a reload. Where do you put
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: your your kit at all? And like you said, it's
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: like we'll spend a whole day doing this. It's like, well,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the level of details fast and thing. I recently heard
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: an interview with an FBI agent. He was saying the
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: FBI Academy, they teach you how to unbuckle your seat belt.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: They did like you to take your left hand and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: put it between your body and the belt, slide down
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: to the buckle, reach your finger around and unclipped the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: buckle and move it so that it diminishes the chances
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: that if you need to get out of your car quickly,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: that you become entangled in your seat seatbelt. And like
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: to think about that, someone's looking at like that level
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: of that that level of specificity, and you're saying, once
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: you learn it, you never unbuckle your belt another way.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: It just becomes like how you're doing being in grizzly
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: country though, Like if you're thinking about having bear spray
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: and a pistol, and then no one ever talks about it,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: never practice you have to, like you should have that
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: transition down and where how you get your pistol, how
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: you get your bear spray, and have practiced that even
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: think you don't practice it. So then we we talked
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: about doing a thing where now and then when you're
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: out in grizzly country, but now and then someone should
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: just clap their hands with those stop watch and be
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: like how long does it take everyone to like dig
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: through their pack by their prepper spray die. It's like, quick,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: where did I put that stuff? You know? Yeah, man,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: it's the same kind of danger. You know, I don't
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: want to get eaten by a barrel or shot by
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: a dude. You know your chances if you spend a
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: lot of time in the wilderness, you know your chances
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: are higher, meaning by a bear in a lot of cases,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: and getting shot in Montana. I mean, just reality. What like,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: what makes what makes a good shooter? Is it? Is it?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: I know you can't divide them out, but what makes
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: the actor a great shooter? Is it is? It's psychological?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Is it physical? Definitely? Psychological? More psychological. We'd say shooting
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: is physical nine percent metal. What is the metal? So
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: this is where it gets crazy, right, depends on what
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: you're doing. So if it's a dynamic thing, then it's
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: about training muscle memory, training movements. So it's like building
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: up your your kind of processes, your thoughtless processes. On
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: the more intentional side of it, So like the stuff
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: that I shot is very slow, methodical, all process based.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: So what you're trying to do is you're trying to
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: get a mental process that is repeatable, and then you
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: are a plan and then you stick to that and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: that's what you're doing the whole time. So you work
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: on the physical you know, the holding the gun, that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: triggering and all that, but then the rest of it
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: becomes mental. So we would read a lot of you know,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: golf books, tennis books, things like that, because it's the
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: same idea. It's like when you have your golf swing down.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: You know, anybody at the top fifty guys in the
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: PGA can alsowing in golf club, It's like, what's the difference.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, where they put themselves mentally, the decisions
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: they make, you know, making good shots, following their process
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: exactly the same way every time, and that's where it's
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like a lot of things,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I guess, it's process oriented versus outcome oriented. So you're
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: trying to keep yourself from thinking about what's the implications
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: of if I do this or that. It's like, no,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna do my process and
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: whenever happens happens, I've trained the process and I'll stick
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: to it. And that you're not obsessing over the outcome.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: You can't if as soon as you think outcome, you're done.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. Like, that's the thing I found
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: that over the years, I've become I hesitate to use
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: the word, I'm not gonna say very good. Over the years,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I've become good, um like good as a rifle hunter. Okay,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: not like I don't take insane shots, but I don't
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: have a lot of I don't I don't make a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: lot of mistakes because you just like do this, this, this, this, this,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: and it just happens. But archery, But the minute, the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: minute something's approaching, all I'm thinking about. I'm I'm in
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: what you say, outcome all I'm thinking about his outcome.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to miss it. I don't
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: want to wound it. It's like it's all I'm thinking
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: about with my rifle. I'm not like I sure hope,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I I sure hope I don't wound it. I'm like,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: very fun. Yeah, I'm very focused with like, I'm very
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: like I know that I'm gonna do what I do
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: and I know that I will I will be successful,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Like I just know that that will happen. So I've
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: developed that confidence with archery I can't overcome. It's a
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: major problem with archery. I can't overcome jumping to the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: unknown the outcome. It's funny put it that way, because
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: it's just but it's in your head, man, it's in
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: your head. I've got a mental image. This is from
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: like five years ago, still like crisp as Day, and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: it's this. It's me letting an arrow go in a bull.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: It was about thirty five yards away and watching the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: arrow go to to do four ininges over his back
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: and like I, I shoot a bed of archery a
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: little bit, you know, for a while, and so I can.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: I can shoot a boat pretty decent. And thirty five
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: yards is not a long shot, and it's wide open,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: nothing between us, you know, grass, and he's standing there
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and I'm looking, and then you have this mental play
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: back and I'm thinking because I was kind of in
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: some low grass and I was trying to stay real,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: real low. And then I remember and it's like, okay,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: so your your mind goes through into this whole you know,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: this whole memory and about you know, a millisecond, and
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: it's like you have all these pictures that you can
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: kind of play back, and I'm thinking you know, when
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: I looked at that pin, there was a triangle that
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I was looking at that pin through. It was not
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: a circle. That was my peep side. And I know
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I came back and I was oh, and I looked
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: right over the top of my peep site through the
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: little you know, you're accommodation. And I came through and
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is perfect. I was like, and
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: the arrow goes fours and three four in right over
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: his back like dead nuts, straight up right up the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: back of the leg, right over only in hindsight, and
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I totally looked over my peep site and
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: it's like something that I think I've ever done that.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Like you said, man, you get in that situation and
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: it's like the blood starts pumping in a big bowl
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: and you're like, I've recently going to a back tenson
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: or at least because I was getting jumpy. And once
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: you go to the back tension release, if you're not
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: the form isn't right and you're not pulling the right way,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: it's not going off. I keep surprised people talk about this,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: but it's like trend. It fixes a lot. Just it's
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: a trend. People have been talking about for a long
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Have you doing this because my brother like switched. It's
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: it's really like what I would when I was practicing
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: with the trigger. You know, one out of six shots,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: I'd get tired. I'd be jumping the trigger when you're
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: practicing what I would do on the teachings of John Dudley,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: like I would put I'm focused on my back elbow,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: feeling that deltoid muscle pull in the right way right,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: focus on that muscle, focus on my follow through, and
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: you almost you stop thinking about your front, your site.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: You're thinking about it, and my following through the proper
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: process is my process going. We used to I used
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: to put um and I still do this. Put a
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: speaker behind me, directly behind me where I want to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: pull to turn music on. Public speaker, put you suck
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: you suck uh, and put music on and pull to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: the music right and and have my elbow go towards
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: the music and focus on you know how my elbow
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: is traveling towards that sound, and you totally forget what's
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: going on in the front half of your body. And
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: I'm more accurate like that than any other way. Yeah,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to I haven't but I'm going to see.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: That's the thing is Kenyan was like he Mark Kennyon's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: talking about he's gonna finish up the season and then switch,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: so he's got plenty of time to switch into. I've
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: thought about that. I thought about having a thumb release,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: which is generally the same set up, but you're you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: have a thumb trigger instead of right, so you you
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: flip to that and it's kind of the same motion,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: but you have control, right, so if an elks coming in,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: you don't have to wait. But I know guys like
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: I would say Shane Dory and a bunch of guys
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: that have bow hunted with recently who took the leap
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: and said I'm just gonna hunt with this thing, and
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: the next thing I know, they're five shots, five dead
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: animals at all different ranges, all different times. So I mean,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: you just adapt to it as being the most sound
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: way to have a process in the woods. I've been
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: thinking about. It forces you to do it right. It
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: forces you to do it right. I just hate like
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: new learning new stuff, man, because you know, I mean,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: like after so many years of doing something some way,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: I would rather it's just easy, not easier it's you
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: just almost want to double down on what you know
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: rather than really changing. Like if someone said, like, there's
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: a new rifle out and you put a thing in
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: your mouth right and you just bite down to make
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: it go off, which is probably not a bad idea, Yeah, maybe,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: but I would be hesitant. I was very hesitant when
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I met with John. I'm like, that's a good idea. Yeah,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: somebody right that there just like pinch between your eye
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: teeth released. I know. I know a guy who got
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: in an accident last year man some like trash compactor
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: thing and he got like squished in it, messed up
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: his back, shoulders and no, no on the job dude.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: But he's really he's really, he's really, he's really serious
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: figous hunter imagine something. You know some of you know him.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: But he hunted last year with a with a bow
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: with a mouth release because he couldn't draw no, no,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: like t it was a tab that he was biting
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and drawing his bow. Yeah. I grew up with a
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: guy like that. He'd lost his arm in an accident
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: and shot by holding the mouthpiece. I think he might
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: have killed a bull doing that this year, but I
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: don't remember exactly. I think he did. He are you
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: talking about Josh? Why? Why are you guys being all
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: secret at No? I just just because I couldn't couldn't
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: bring it to mind right away. Yeah. Yeah, And you
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: like how much name dropping do you want to do
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: on the Meat Eater podcast? You want to bring too
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: much the right amount to not be confusing to people, right,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: that's my that's my barometer. I feel like you're feeling
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: a little high and mighty in your fancy sweater today. Dude,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: I'm never Are we gonna talk about it? Are we
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: gonna talk about it? Well, let's talk about it. Listen, man,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: there's either I either make my wife happy or I
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: make you guys happy. And guess if I'm more interested
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: in making happy, Yes, man's gotta man's gotta make my
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: An's gotta make my wife. Commented on how handsome I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: looked in the sweater she bought me. Yeah, she bought
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: you the sweater that she knew she bought it for you.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: See if he wears it again, sweaters just so we
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: can have an interaction, it'll bring us closer. Uh. Nice
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: sweater pivoting away from my sweater? That was quick. Psychological
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: what okay, you hunt, this is this is good. You'll
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: be able to hand to this. How much does what
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: you learned from competitive shooting where it's just replicating controlled atmosphere, right,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: is hunting just totally different? Yes, yes, and no, there's crossover.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it goes back to the process. You gotta
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: put yourself like you know I said, and you miss
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: a bowl and it's like, how did I do that?
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, you get amped up and you don't
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: follow through your process that it's kind of the same thing.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it even combats the same thing. Guys that
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: go over and they say, well, you guys are good shooters,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: but you got a combat it's gonna be totally different.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: It's like we used to say, you know, you will
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: perform at your lowest level of training, So your worst day,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: that's how you can expect to shoot. Now, you might
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: do better, but you're always going to revert back to
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: your lowest level of training. Everybody wants to, you know,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: peek before and you're gonna rise to the occasion. It's
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't happen very often. You you'll revert back
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: to your lowest level of training. So that day when
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: you feel like crap and you're pulling crappy shots, and
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: that's how you're gonna shoot. When you get a big
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: bullet front of you, you might shoot better, but that's
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: what you can count on, you know, your lowest level
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: of training. So it does your surious day. Yeah, that's
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: the range. Yeah, work on eliminating those. That's that's the
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: whole point. You know, Like talking about back tension releases,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, maybe it doesn't give you as much control,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: but if it's more consistent, like it eliminates those like
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: jerk shots that go off in the neverland, It's like, well,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: then that eliminates that shot that that might be the
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: shot you pull on a bowl and all of a
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: sudden you shoot him back in the pond oring high
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: liver or something. You know. The game you play with yourself,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: right is your You go, you're out hunting and you
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: throw out a target and you make a nice shot.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: The tendency is to be like, okay shooting, because you
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: want to end on that. You want to end on
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: that feeling of that you got it dialed. If you
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: shoot like a really bad one, want to shoot one more?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Just I gotta I can't let that sit well, and
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: that goes back, you know, to you guys are talking
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: about long bogs. You know. I had it with traditional
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: for a long time, and it's like that thing that's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: really where you gotta get your mind right because there's
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: no pin to rely on. There's no like, oh, I'll
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: just pull back with the pin in right place and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: squeeze the trigger. It's like, no, it's all process. I mean,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: you don't have anything to rely on. You're like, well,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: I've been doing this for a long time when I
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: shoot a lot, so I'm just gonna come back, follow
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: through your touch and that arrow. Hopefully it's gonna go
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to and try and get you know, five
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: yards away. That helps, but it's it's kind of that
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: same thing. I think it does transfer a lot for
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: the mental aspect, but I think a lot of it's
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: just a process. What's my process? I get in there
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking about the right thing and think about
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: the first thing. You know a lot of guys like
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how to to break this down.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you get to step one, what
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: step one? So say a bowl comes in, It's like
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: step one is to say, like remind myself, you know,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna squeeze through the shot or I'm gonna back tension,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever works for you. Site make sure I'm
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: picking the rights pin or focus on the pin, you know,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: let the elk be a little bit blurry or whatever
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: it is. That's your first step in that process. And
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: then say, I'm gonna do that first thing. I've got
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: five steps or three steps, and I'm gonna do the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: first one. And if you do that, it's like your
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: your process then takes over. It's when you get there
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, I'm just gonna pick a random
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: step and roll with it. Well, then your brain freaks out.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: That's that's step one, and then the rest of them
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: will just go like you gotta you gotta it yourself
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: into that, start your process and then it just is
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: automatic or most of the time. You just said two
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: things that resonate with me. I want to back up
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: on one because I think it's such a it's a
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: really interesting point I hadn't thought of. Is um practicing
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: to eliminate your worst which is like when you're shooting,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: if you you know, if you're if you're out shooting,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: in your yard with your bowl and yeah, one in
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: every six arrows is just like what the hell? Yeah right,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: how did that go? Yeah, and you write it off.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: It's like something. But it's like consistently if you throw
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: a bad arrow, Yeah, if you could find a way
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: to like think about that rather than trying you know,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: and of course you're trying to replicate your good shots
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: to make more of them, but to isolate like the freaks. Well,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: it's because I have enough freaks for if you just
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: imagine rolling the dice, Like if every time, if you're
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: in a tree stand, every time a deer comes by
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: and you've got one in six arrows is just crazy.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: You can never figure out why one in six arrows
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: is crazy. It's gonna be in the back of your mind.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: You're like, well, is this gonna be the one? The
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: bad one? Well, you don't like to train stuff you're
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: not good at either. It's like I like to make this.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: You know, this is what I'm good at. I'm gonna
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: go do that, so I feel good about it. But
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: it's like the work involved is finding the areas where
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: you're deficient or weak, saying, well, what causes that one
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: six shot? Well, it's this, well, then train that, get
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: better at that, and then it brings your whole system up.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: It's not as much fun. But you know, like blank
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: bail shooting, you're blind shooting. A lot of the guys
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: will stand there and just work on forum. You know,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I do a lot, especially traditional. You just get a
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: big blank bail and close your eyes and just what's
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: it feel like? All right, that's the system, and then
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: that's what you do. But it's not fun. It's not
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: nearly as much fun as watching arrows flying to the target.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I've I've tried. I've talked about this before, but my
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: dad's somehow got his hands on these stickers. And when
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: your kids that said, um, stay calm, pick a spot
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: and you put them on the inside of the limb, yep,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: your bow. But then you start relying on this idea
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: that you're gonna remember to read that damn sticker. But
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: when I'm out, I don't. I don't do this with
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: rifle hunting at all. But if I'm out bowl hunting,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time trying to be like
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: when when the when a moment when you send some
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: moments gonna happen to start going into this thing, like
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: like you said to bring find yourself process. Yeah. But
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: but and you could even be in a situation where
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: you see something coming and you and you remember. You're like,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: you congratulate yourself for remembering be like the process process
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: and just pick some part so you're aware that there
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: is a process. But then all of a sudden, like
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: you can't tell I remember hunting, hunting. Uh, so you
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: can hear in Maryland this year, I had all the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: time in the world, so I called this. I called
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: to a stag and he's starting to come and I'm like, wow,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: he's coming, and I'm like, hey, process, process, process, process, process.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember all the things I'm gonna do.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: And then he comes through this area where it's a
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: lot of obstructions. So he passed through this little thicket
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, he's gonna come all the way through
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: and I'll never get a shot. But then all of
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: a sudden, he stops in the weirdest little gap and
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: instead of this whole thing that I've been telling myself
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: about how I'm gonna do this whole walk through dimnity
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: stops like right so like right up until the second
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: and then even though I remembered, like I is happy
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: to remember process, but then you get this gap and
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, screw the process. Yeah, I think it's
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: a good I gotta shoot this arrow. Yeah, it's like
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: a good hunter. Who could who would be like I'm
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: not gonna have an opportunity. There's an opportunity. I'm gonna
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: stick to my plan and if it doesn't work or
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: he steps away, then then too bad. And it's not
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: like I'm now going to throw the whole thing out
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: of the window and then show shoot over its back?
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: Which which is? Which is? That's like Kyle hunting for me.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of Kyle hunting in the winter.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Man Kyle comes running in and it's like I forget,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: I mean you forget shoots like hundred yards stand at
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: me and he's like they stop and you know they're
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: about to rush like boom and you miss him. Like
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: I'm shooting a sitting shot with back support and I
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: missed a coyote straight up at eight inch target at
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: a hundred yards. It's like it'll humble anybody. But it's
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: like same thing. It's like I got this plan. He's
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: gonna come over here and pop out, and all of
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like there he's about ready to leave,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: and you're like, crap, shoot that shot takes off running.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: You're like, why didn't I do that? I could have
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: taken a half a second actually squeeze line up, keep
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: it steady, boom and dropping. But you're like, I gotta
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: shoot now. What do you think is the biggest mistake?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: What what's the biggest mistake that UH hunters make when shooting?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: You can do it archery and and or archery and
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: or rifle rushing the shot, I'd say, you know, I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: do it still. That's that's the main thing, trying to
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: trying to push that shot. You know, you you break
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: your plan, Like you said, I gotta I gotta shoot
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: it now, I gotta I gotta do this, I gotta
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: do that. If you just take that and it seems
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: like forever in your mind, but if you actually watch
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: a video of yourself shooting, you're like, I felt like
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: I took an extra five seconds and it was three
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: quarters of a second. That little bit of time to
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: just okay, this is what I'm doing and then just
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: do it seem like the deliberate you know, that's I
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: try and tell myself that just be deliberate, be deliberate,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: be deliberate, because I know the system. I know the process.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: I've shot millions of rounds same things, like, be deliberate,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: make a deliberate shot. It helps me to repeat things
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: like that. It just helps me bring my heart rate
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: and my breathing down a little bit to have that
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: mantra going. I always tell myself slow as smooth and
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: smooth as fast, yeah, And I just kind of repeat
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: that and try to not be like, you know, we
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: used to say that all the time. You can't miss
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: fast enough, can't miss fast enough. I do that. Also,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: I have a five for archer. I have a five
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: step process. Right, So it's feet draw, anchor peep pull, right,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: that's all I do it. And I line my feet
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: up and I do all the time, and that's good. Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: So you see a buck coming and you're like, remember
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: feet drawl, So I draw straight back And I didn't
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: come up with this, John Dudley did. But you all
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: straight back, You find your anchor and then put your
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: nose down and find your peep and then pull and
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: you're not like you're never like shoot, it's pulled feet.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Do you line your feet properly, you bring your bow up,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: you draw, you find your anchor, and the feet draw anchor,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: anchor peep and then pull. And if you could just
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: remember to do that, Man, here's how I did just that.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Here's how I generally do it. Feet draw. But yeah,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: but I feel like it's if if the process marries
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: up with your ability to act in the moment. Like
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: I read. I read a little bit on flow state
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: and thought I was real smart, and then I thought
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: I would flow state my way to killing animals didn't
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: really work. What's flow state me? This is like a
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: state of positivity and action and control, like focusing on
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: like your mental state and being positive. I thought, oh
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: if I meditated. I never meditated. But the idea that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I could control mentally like this process and make sure
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: nothing could penetrate it like one, two, three, four or
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: five bam, just have never successfully doesn't work. It doesn't work.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: But that's when when you get to the back tension.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: Then you start to like control. You would make sure
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: that hey, man, I can I can jump this, but
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I have to be pulling the right way. It doesn't matter.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I can try to jump it but the back tension
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: is is controlling me. My brother talks about lust and greed.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: Mm hm, the preacher, it's compelling. No, he talks about
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: lost and green and honey because he's like, he could
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: shoot targets all day long, but he doesn't lust for him.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: And when you put like a big game animal in
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: front of him, like he says, it's it disappoints him
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: that he's like the lust and greed wants it. He's like,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: I want it so bad that it blocks my ability
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: to have it. Yeah, if you could just tell yourself
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: there'll be another shot, there'll be another animal. They'll be like,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: if you just treat it like that, like it's got
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: to be perfect or I'm not gonna do it. If
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: you could somehow do that, life will be like maybe
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: when I see something coming through the woods, I'll be like,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: who gives a ship? Just a big old box? Who
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: really even wants this stupid thing? Stupid? It's probably gonna
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: taste it's probably gonna taste terrible. Take a shot, but
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I don't care. I always think about that pistol course
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: that we took, paid a bunch of money, Um, do
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: this accelerated pistol course, by the end of the day,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: five out of five of us can hit a target
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: with a pistol at a hundred yards, and I will
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: guarantee you within a year, there wasn't one out of
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: five of us that could hit a target with in
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: fifty yards, right, because will you lock in the process
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: and you're like, well, got that, I'll just put this
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: on the shelf over here. Perishable skill. That's the thing
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: about this, But so so is my long bow. Same thing? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: because it process, process, process, muscle memory. Don't shoot that
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: thing for a week. It's like, I'm a danger to myself.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: That's the weird thing in the archery space where everybody's
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: gotta have a new bow every year, right, you gotta
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: have the newest, greatest bow you have to. I mean,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna be any any kind of good, you're like,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: you're switching bows every year. I appreciate that nothing by
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: two year old, both for a lot cheaper, but there's
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: so many come on your five Yeah, I mean, but
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: that seems to be a better way to go. You
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: got a bow, you know, and you know the mechanics
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: of it. You understand what it's gonna do. Why switch yeah,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: I take a pretty seer siously the switch like rifles,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I don't care, I'll bounce. I'm nervous about not not
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: even like I'm not like a great shot, right but
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: far from a great shot. But I still get nervous
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: about switching. But then I'm like, maybe I'll be better.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: But it's a good thing that that industry has done.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Is I think I don't know if it's slowing down now.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe honest has perspective on this, but it'd be like
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: it seemed like for a while, there's so many advances
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: or they made you think they were advances, and then
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: when you had an older bow, you were like missing
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: out on the party. Yeah, and it's probably like a
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: marketing creation still that way. I remember there's a particular
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: company that used to have at a t A. They
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: would have like a dude come in on a motorcycle
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: with the new bow and it would be like fireworks
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: going off and even drive they would like drive a
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: motorcycle into their booth with the new bow and everybody
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: be like and I'm like, what is this thing? Like
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: is this thing shooting five fbs with a smooth draw?
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, So it's but that they still every company still,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: you know, every company were assault in the industry still
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: puts out a new model every year. I got a
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: good question for you. Uh, this can like mental versus mechanics. Right,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: many many times I've gone down to the range just
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: to make sure that my hunting rifle is on. All
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: of my rifles are hunting rifles. So I don't know
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: why I put that in there, but like I start out,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: get some some flyers, and then I end up adjusting
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: my skill and then by the end of that session
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: at the range and then readjusted it back to the
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: original set. Mechanics or mental, I would say probably mostly mechanical.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: And the reason being is that depending on your rifle
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: and conditions exact, Like I haven't shot rifle for six months, right,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: so you you haven't fired bullets for the board, it's
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: not hot. As you go through it warms up, and
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: depending on I mean, every rifle is different. It's like
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: I've gotten to shooting a lot of long range stuff
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: since I got out, just because it's kind of a
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: cool gig and it brings a lot of things together
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: for me. And uh, you do do wonder right because
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: you're shooting these match rifles and heavy barrels. They weighed
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: fifteen pounds or something, which is a light rifle. Now
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of these guys are shooting twenty plus pound
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: rifles and a lot of the camps. And so you
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: get out there, you're all right'm gonna check my zero,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: make sure you go up there, and it's dead nuts.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: And over time you start to see trends like, well
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: it's colder out, or it's warmer out, or you know whatever,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: my load changed. Is it a fresh reload or is
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: it a you know, one's been sitting there for two
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: months that change. Ammo? It's a different lot of ammo.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: You know, well it's the same box. It's like, yeah,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: but that was that's a different bullet and a lot
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: of different primer, a lot different case, a lot of
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: different powdered lot. So it's the same box, but it's
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: like everything's changed. That's why I like, you know, reloading
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: at this point, there are way too many variable and
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: you can just like start like spinning yourself as far
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole as you want to go. And
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of it. You know, you get
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: into a group, you know, how you shoot, your position
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: plays a heart in that. So you shoot some rounds through,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: it gets formed up, you change your position, you get
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: used to the recoil. You know, you're tight start with
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: and then you relax into it, so that changes things
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And so yeah, there's there's a lot
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: of variables. I would say it's mostly mechanical and that's
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: the key. You know, people have this idea, you know,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: like take snipers for example, like all these guys, they
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: just they're wizards. It's like, well, there's a lot of
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: trends through shooting. It's like where's my cold boar shot go,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: where's my bullet going? It's this format, where's my bullet
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: going him at this elevation? So you just track that
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: and then we keep you know, dope charts. You know,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: you write everything down and after time, same thing with
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: a hunting rifle. Even when I used to shoot, you know, pistol,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I would keep a log every day I shot. I
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: would write down what I did, what I worked on,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: what I noticed. And then over time you can flip
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: through that and you're like, oh, you start to see
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: trends develop. And it's not something a lot of people do,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: but just journaling, you know, even you go to the range. Okay,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: go to the range. Just have a notebook and say
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: I shot here. My gun was shooting three inches high
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: and the left. I'm using this box, you know, maybe
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: mark on your box of AMMO or a lot of ammoor.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: If reload fifty, it's easier because then it's the same.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Let's say I reloaded this on this date. So then
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: you go to the range and then you say, well,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: it always shoots, you know, it always starts out shooting
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: high left, and then it goes down to the lower
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: ride and then it goes back to the middle again.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: And so then you own if you're got hunting, like, okay,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: this frown is probably gonna go, you know, two inches
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: high and left, even though it was zeroed off the
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: last group. Because that's what it always does. My journal
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: would always be the same, man, be like, shot some
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: pretty sweet shots, hit some couple flyers, ended on a
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: good note. Yeah, my first question would be what defined
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: what your flyers are? When you say I have a
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: few flyers and so I start messing with my scope. Man,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: my my brain is strange because I have like a
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: very very select few things where I get like super
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: anal attendive on one is like building arrows and and
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: even like tuning my arrows to my my bows, um
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: and my my groups. I'm like, well, that doesn't look
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: like a tight group to me. When I have somebody
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: be like, well, yeah, but you're shooting an in group.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: How far do you really shoot? You know? So um,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: but something that just looks sloppy. You know. It's like, well,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: I got three within and four inches, uh, two hundred
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: yards and then I got to ten inches for an example.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: Your group goes from four inches to ten inches. So
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: you're saying, yeah, just just like some sloppy us. And
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, nope, I know I did everything right. Everything
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: felt great, and I can't mentally wrap my head around
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: wide how one bullet could stray a minute of elk
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: and walk away. Do the old the old Michigan trick.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: Put out a pie plate at a hundred yards, Yep,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: hit it, We're good to go. Shot a five inch
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: group and a hundred we're solid. Yeah, yep, those do kill.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: It's that's something to remember too, because I shoot, you know,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: you're I want a gun that shoots for shooting a
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: match guns like half inch. A lot of guys get
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: wrapped around and they'll do low development to the nth
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: of green. Like I want a gun that shoots quarter
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: m o a, it's like, well, a gun that will
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: actually shoot true quarter m a A for like five
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: shot groups is rare. I mean you're getting into benchres world.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Think I got guns that I've done out and shot
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: and they'll shoot seven eights pretty consistent. And as long
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: as you're not shooting targets outside of that, I mean,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: think how they get target you're shooting. It's like I
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: can shoot two Emily targets all day long. It's all
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: about your wind calls and everything else. So I don't
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: get too wrapped around that anymore. As long as it's
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: a consistent load and it's you know, keeping to that
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: same thing, it's like, well it's well under an inch
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: half inch is great, but in for hunt rifle, it's
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: like a shooting an inch, Like that's pretty solid. But
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: that's good. Chuck Christopher, it's a big competitive bench ResQue
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: guy out of Idaho. I don't um I'd go down.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: He's got a facility built at his house, basically like
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: a bunker on the hillside. I think you should have yeah,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: flat tire ranch um fitting and I used to go
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: up there to try to like site my rifles in
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: with him, and it was just the most it's it's
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: a add experience. You share the eggs at yards and
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and he is so dialed and he's
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: so he's got his process down and his process and
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: like the hunting equivalency like they just do not meet,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: like like it's not real world. It's almost a different sport.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: When you're talking about some of that bench rest complete,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: it's amazing those guys are shooting four or five inch
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: groups at a thousand though consistently like their eggs or
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: you know, they'll shoot like three matches and they're shooting
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: five inch groups four inch groups with a little six
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: mil or something coldly cow. You know. It's funny about
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: when you talk about the consistency and the consistency of
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: the equipment is the way that there's this idea that
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: back in Boon's era that these guys are like these
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: expert marksmen, you know that they like shoot and split
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: lead on hatchets and stuff like that. It's like when
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: you think about that they were hand pouring bullets, sometimes
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: making their own gunpowder and then having shooting rifles that
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: were that were rifled by hand. You're like, and then
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: people like they have this sing like this right old
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: tick liquor. You know, it could shoot the tick off
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: a possum, or can split bullets on hatchet heads of twos.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, it would be so nice to be able
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: to go back in time to see Daniel Boone and
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: his compatriots. I remember, like if you read of that
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: that account, there are accounts that people would complain about
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: um people out in the settlements, how they would just
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: shoot all day long, how lazy they were because if
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: they weren't out hunting, they would just shoot. But to
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: go back and like what kind of groups with those
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: guys actually throwing it would have been interesting because the
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: mythology is this like real you know, these like super
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: accurate heart shot every time. But when you think about
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: the inconsistencies of all the equipment, it must have been
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: some sloppy ass shooting back then, Like there's no way
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: they could have gotten good, Like how good could you
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: get when every shot is just something so different? I
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: don't know. In some ways I had inclined to agree
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: just because of the quality, But then you had a
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: lot of guys that were true craftsmen that could build.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: I mean that's why who built the rifle mattered, because
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: you had guys that you said, we're throwing stuff together.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: But you look at guys that try and recreate some
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: of that stuff, and they're using modern day C and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: C machines in the whole line yards and like, I'm
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: having trouble getting to where this guy was consistently kind
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: of making things, you know, handmade, like trying to replicate
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: how they did this. It's pretty wild. And then if
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: you go back and you look at the Civil War,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: you look at some of these some of these different
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: rifles that these guys were shooting. I mean, you had
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: guys that were shooting eight nine hundred yards in the
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Civil War that we're taking some of these you know
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: creed More rifles and stuff, and they were sniping guys
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: crazy distances. And or you go to the black Powder
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: the Buffalo rifles, and you look at what those guys shoot,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: you know, like they have the quickly shoots and they
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: shoot these black power It's crazy. What and they're doing
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Those guys are you know, pouring those
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: are say boats and you know they're not shooting round balls.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: But it's it's still sometimes I wonder. I'm like, I
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: wonder if they like did have this figured out, if
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: it's you know, like like the Pyramids, or like, I
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: don't know how they did it, but here's the result,
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: you know, if they were legit or if it's like
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of oh yeah, he was a
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: great shot. He could you know, shoot the takeoff of Bossum.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: It's like there's a there's a thing in group at
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: fifty yards and never else you're shooting a foot group,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't know, there's a thing called
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: the Battle of Adobe Walls, when the bad at the
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Battle of Adobe Walls. It was a bunch of buffalo
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: hunters down on the Southern Plains when they weren't supposed
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: to hunt south of the Southern Railroad, but they started
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: going down there and they got into a skirmish. I
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: can't remember what tribes they got into a skirmish with,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: but there's this legend this guy making a shot, a
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: thousand plus yard shot, and I was like, how much
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: did he walk out and be like, haile married it
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: and happened to hit someone, and how much did he'd
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: be like here's what's gonna happen. It seems like hyperbole
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: was pretty prevalent in that culture too, So this shot
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: was substantiated by multiple sources because there was the the
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: adobe walls thing. Yeah, and they credited that shot with
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: ending the battle. But I'm saying, how much, like how
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: much did he just go out and wing one out there?
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: And he was more surprising and more surprised than the
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: guy he hit. And I believe those it wasn't because
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: it was like a little trade center, right, like trading post.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: And one of the accounts that I read like those
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: are brand new rifles, like somebody brought them in to
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: then sell and when. Um, because this was in Empire
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: of the Summer Moon Ranche. I know it from Dan Flore.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: He's talking about it, and the way Dan Flores presents
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: it is from the buffalo hunter's perspective, it was this
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: long shot that's so stunned their adversaries. Um, like the
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: hand of God is against us, We're just gonna go ahead.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: From the tribal perspective, someone had on the way to
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: the battle, someone had killed a skunk and was taboo
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: to kill a skunk ahead of a battle, or taboo
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: to kill a skunk in general, and when like that
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: man fell, it was affirmation that someone had violated a taboo.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: And that's their perspective on why that battle went south.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: So I asked Dan Floorys, I'm like, who was right,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: and he's like, both of them. You got hit viable
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: and that's the derivation of like getting skunked. Right. I'm
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: not sure, but I like it. But yeah, I mean
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: I've heard the same It all plays out the exact
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: same way, obviously, but I've heard, um there's a uh,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: you know, a very reputable shaman type character who said,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we go do this tech, I guarantee nobody
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: will get touched. And then at the very outbreak, obviously
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: somebody gets touched and in a baby way, and it
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: was like, well all over, good, mojo is is gone. Shot. Yeah,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: it could have been a skunk, could have been whatever.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: There were two battles of adobe walls, and it was
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: a very small amount of hide hunters defending like a
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: little encampment from hundreds of adversaries, but with high falute
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: and equipment, yeah, like big fifty col uh buffalo rifles.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: And in the one account I read, they were like
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: brand new in box like trade goods. Right, So then
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: like break about boys, we're under attack? Yeah, what did
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: we missed? Steth? What is there? More? Is there like
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: any uh marksmanship business that I should ask you about it?
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: Never did? I want to ask about big boar pistols.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: How much experience do you have with them? Not a lot?
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: I've shot? Uh. I went up to Alaska just in
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: actually during college. I had a buddy that was a
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: little bit younger than me that just graduated high school.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: So I first started college, we went up to Alaska.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: So I bought a forty four mag put them hardcast bullets,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: like we're going to bear a country. Time to get
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: a little bigger peciooter. So I shot that a little bit.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: I've shot like four sixties and some of that stuff,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: but not a lot. You know, is it a lot
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: harder or is it still just in your head the
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: fact that you're dealing with this thing that just barks
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: and makes your hand hurt so bad? Similar concepts, you know,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: It's it's definitely different. It's like driving a race. Carver's
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: driving a you know, I don't know something. Yeah, I'm
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: like it's a little different, but yeah, similar ideas, you know,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: breaking the trigger, keeping your keeping your sightes tight and
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: breaking the trigger, and yeah, it's similar concepts, but it
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: takes some muscle memory to get past the blast for sure,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: because like what you're speaking to is like a forty
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: four mag with a four inch barrel. Yeah, how uncomfortable,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: how uncomfortable it is. And then how stunningly inaccurate one is. Well,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: they can be accurate, but I've always thought of those.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, how light can we make a
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: four fifty four so that it's easy to carry in
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: bear country? Right? And then you're shooting the or a
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: five hundred and it weighs, you know, two pounds versus
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: like the four that it should weigh. Plus It's like,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: to me, that's what we call a get off me,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: bro weapon. You know, it's like the bears right here.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: It's like it's me to you, I just gotta be
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: able to get that thing to bark and get it
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: out and shoot at ten ft. I'm not I'm not
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: gonna be go out and trying to smoke a bear
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: with that thing at a hundred fifty yards. I might
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: be getting this story wrong with someone was telling me
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: about they had these They had a bunch of guides
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: who carry revolvers short barreled revolvers is bear protection. It
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: did something where they put him at the bottom of
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: a hill and some guy rolls a basketball down the hill. Okay,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: I think I could be MESSI do you know this
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: story before hit and that's the thing you're supposed to
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: hit this bear in the head with as he's coming
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: down on you. Well and until your point about protection,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: So if you're shooting a hunting pistol or something, then
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: that's stiff. You don't put a scope hunt or maybe
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: that's different. And I've I was talking to a kid
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: whose dad used to hunt with a with a pistol
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: and he was one of those guys that shot the
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: big board like the four sixty rowlands and all those
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: the wheel guns. And his dad, I guess, was one
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: of those pistol arrow types that he just he's put
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands around to it's one gun. And he
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: was telling stories. They were breaking him. He need break
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: cleay pages on hundred yards with this thing all the time.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: You know, rabbit would come around now and he just
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: smoked this rabbit, you know, And there's tons of stories
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: throughout the frontier days of pistol arrows that could just
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: make incredible you like at Bob Munden, how fast that
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: guy could draw and shoot. It's like you can't even
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: see him. It's like ba boom, Like okay, I guess
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: it's legit. You know Ross pistol shot. Well yeah, but
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like as Bob Ross is slow, this guy's fast.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, polar opposites, you know. And uh,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, my dad used to go shoot. He
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: went and shot a brown bear in Canada. Last guy,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: I guess, and he shot the singing like a hundred
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: forty yards. It was standing up and he shot right
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: in the center of the chest. But he said they
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: went out with the guide, you know. I mean, kids
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: is telling stories, but I'm sure you know he can
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: back them up. And other guys like, gah, that's dude,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: I've never seen make shoot pistol like this iron sights.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna go site in our hunting rifle and
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: his guys kind of the same way to put up
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: a paper plate. Shoot, you know, three shots on it. Yep,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: they're all on the plate. We're good to go. And
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: this guy sting with a pistol. He's like a you
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: shooting on a hunt a brown bear with a pistol. Boy,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: you know what kind of thing. He's like, sure, So
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: he gets up there off hand, shoots four rounds I
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: think on this plate or five rounds. I don't think
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: the five rounds. Goes up there and it's like a
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: four inch group on this plate a hundred yards, and
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: he's like, literally, he shot a better group off hand
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: with his pistol than the guy did shooting off the hood.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: And so the guys like, well, I guess. So there's
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: guys out there, and I've known a couple that they
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: shoot big bore stuff and take crazy accurate. But for me,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: my the gun I carry is a clock ten mill
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: hardcast bullets because sometimes volumes volume is better than one.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: I get one off for the five hund to get
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: that thing out, like I can. I can shut a
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: clock pretty quick. So and I got ten rounds in
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: that thing. So if I got a bear this to
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: start chewing on me, I can get three or four
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: off hopefully before I get knocked down. And so that's
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: that's where I'm at. It's a it's a platform I'm
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: used to and what are you doing this fall? I
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: want to get together and hunt, like where I have
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: tag and you don't watch for bears. You got it
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: guessing it's going to be somewhere towards the direction over there,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: over there. That's the thing man bears have been. You know,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of areas I've hunted and been around
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: and I've never hunted. You know. You get down to
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: like tom On or Basin or some of those areas.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: Guys that won't hunt there anymore, they're like, I I
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: used to hunt there every year, but we were it's
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: not if you run into a bear, It's like, what's
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: the situation gonna be like? And it's every year. They're like,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: it's not worth it. You're walking out in your head lamp.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's always kind of that, oh
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: there's something in the night. It's like, well there is,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: you know, and like you're gonna run into them at
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: some point, Like yeah, outfitters that don't work in certain
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: areas because they're still because you're so bad on feeding
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: it just as hard the bears. Just like what are
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: you gonna do about a buddy? Yeah, you can't hurt me,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: now what you do about it now, you got any
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: more you want to hit? Yeah, well, we had an
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: email coming about the definition of loaded. Yeah, I think
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: that would have been saving to talk about. Well, it's legal,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: it's a legal question. It is. Well, but no, because
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: the weekend I've posed it to a couple of different
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: people and uh, everybody's kind of got two answers. That's
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: a good question. So he's a the guy's a lawyer. Yeah,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's a gap. Yeah, you want me to
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: spell it out? Yeah, I read this. I actually saved
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: this to talk about I didn't get to it. Yeah,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: she the I was trying to do my best here
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: to make it simple for when she was in the courtroom,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: and I think that it was it came down to
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: the definition of loaded, because too um for the perpetrator
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: to be charged with aggravated assault, the gun had to
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: be loaded. So then they came down to, well, what
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: is loaded, because if it's not, then the punishment is
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: not gonna be severe or the charge won't be as
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: severe as if it is. And she says, well, the
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: mag was full, and the other guy says, well, no,
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: if it didn't have one in the chamber. So it
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: wasn't loaded, So it's not you know, like he was saying,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: I'll shoot you. But if he actually can't shoot because
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have a loaded weapon, then that's where like
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: the gray area was. So she's like, dude, I for
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: sure thought that you know, low you know in the
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: magazine means loaded. And she went home and has been,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: you know, talking to other people about it and everybody,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: and she seems to be Uh. She wants to argue,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't She wants to argue that her client's gun wasn't
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: loaded because he didn't have one chambered. No, she's saying
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: that it was what she wants whoever where she stands
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: on the case. But she's wanting to argue that having
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: it having a loaded magazine counts for a loaded weapon.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: I think when you're talking about pointing it at a person,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: if you're out hunting, and he said, is that thing loaded? No,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: having some of the magazine, it is not loaded if
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: it's not cham bird the minute I pointed at you,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: like if I point a revolver at you and it
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: winds up that I have an empty cylinder in there,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: and and uh, and I got an empty cylinder and
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: he says that loaded, and I'm like, no, when I'm
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: pointing at you, I feel that it's a different it's
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: a completely different set of rules. Well, what's the definition for,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: like for what you can I was just just how
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: you I was just looking up the So we have
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: different aspects, right, So you can carry, you know, you
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: have different methods of carry. So you can carry loaded
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: round in the chamber on safe, load round the chamber,
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: off save loaded, no round in the chamber. So you've
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: got different ways that you carry in the military. So
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: like you're on a post and like, well you can't
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: carry with the chamber, but you can carry it loaded
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: or you carry can't hear it with the magazine period.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think it's gonna depend on
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: the definition. I don't think Montone Code has anything that
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: deals with that. I was just looking it up. Well,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: states person, she was in Idaho. I would be surprised
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: if they have a definition of a loaded firearms. There
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: is something to challenge, man. But there is some law
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: and I would have to look it up that deals
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: with concealed carry because there there's a law that says
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: basically you can like brandishing a firearm is defined, and
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think they've ever defined whether or not you
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: know what loaded means or if you're branising a firearm,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: if it matters if it's loaded or not. It's there's
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: kind of that's the only thing I've ever seen broken.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: Now you're saying in the military they use the term
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: loaded for both situations, right, loaded in the magazine or
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: loaded in the chamber. Well, they basically color code them,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: so you can carry red or you can carry black,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: and black means this, red means this. So lord, it's
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: too broad, right, It's just here's the definition for it.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: How chambered is a better? Yea makes sense. Yeah, loaded
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: is too broad in the hunting context as well, because
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: guy levels off, let's get let's go with the pump
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: action shotgun. Guy levels off on him with a pump
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: action shotgun, and he's got tube full, none in the chamber,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: and then someone later wants to be well, it wasn't
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: really low. It could have been like I'd be like,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: if I was a lawyer, I would say, no, one's
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: ever been killed by a bullet in the magazine. Yeah,
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: there's not a If there's not a round in the chamber,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: that gun is not gonna kill you. You just said
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: it's loaded or chambered. Right, it's loaded. If there's any
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: it's one of the magazine, it's chambered. If there's one
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: of the chamber, right, that's that's what I would say. Yeah,
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm trying to jump into multiple perspective trying.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: I'm taking the perspective of someone having aimed at me,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: who would later be like, I don't want to parse
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: hairs here. You loaded the aid of the damn thing
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: at me, Like, let's stop it. I could stop it aimed,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: but I could also see the point where in the court,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: like if I was getting if I was in trouble
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: for having done that to someone else, I could imagine
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: myself arguing very vehemently that it was in fact not loaded. Yeah,
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: but you say, the level of the threat is if
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: if you have to do that, you know, pump a
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: shotgun rather than pull a trigger. The level of threat
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: is different than both those like, it wasn't loaded, It
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't loaded. It was loaded, but wasn't chambers. I think
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: you have to you have to lawyer that life is
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: hanging on the definition of this word. Not like they're
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: going to get capital. No, I'd like to think that
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: there was a were really he was in the chamber
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: and they're like waiting to to to give him the drip,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: pending on what we just what we decided. No, she
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: was just curious more about the common usage in our
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: in our circles. In our circle, it would be that
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: it was not loaded. I'll say that it would be
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: that there's not around in the chamber. It's not likely
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: I would say to you, is that thing loaded? And
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: you say no, I'm thinking, very well, have a magazine
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: in it. But there's nothing changed. Man. I feel like,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: you know, this was twenty years ago I took hunter safety,
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: but I feel like I learned learned it different. I think,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is in Washington. Maybe the rules are different,
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: but I remember being told you cannot have a loaded
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: gun in a car. And you know what, in that case,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: you're right. In that case, it can't have a magazine
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: because act And so I'm so when when Yanni brought
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: this up the other day, I'm like, well, I mean, like,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: if if you're coming back from hunting, you get pulled over,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: officer asks do you have a gun in the car? Yes?
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: Or isn't loaded? You. You better be able to say no,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: and you better have the bullets around. That's a good point, right.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: We just got a letter from a woman who went
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: her family was all going fishing. This is an Idaho
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: story to her family's all going fishing and they go
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: down to a park and the dad's fishing with the
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: kids and she's reading her book. It's something or another
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: happens where someone's got to leave and they give her
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: the rod. And so she's just holding a rod on
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: the grass, holding a rod, and someone comes up and
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: checks her license. She doesn't have a license, so I'm
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: not fishing. But I'm like, yes, I'm Ada Laike holding
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: the rob. I didn't fish. And they give her a citation,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: but she argues that court gets thrown out. Really, yeah,
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't fish. I had a rod at a lake
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: because whatever her husband said, hold the rod, I think,
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: and he came up. She and this is her claim,
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: is that this individual came up the second she touched
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: that rod. Got you. Oh, well, that's where you go
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: back to the you know, one of the other things
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: that moonlight as a reserve police officer, So I get
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: to play with some of this on the other side
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: and then one thing they talked about a lot when
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: you're looking at how to enforce laws, because I mean,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: there's obviously ambiguity in a lot of areas, and as
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: a legislator, I don't want there to be strict clarity
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: where you're gonna go through and define everything down to
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: every level, because then you're gonna have double the size
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: of code. I would rather live in a state where
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: people use common sense and say, hey, you know this,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: this lawsayes don't do this. So this is obviously what
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: it means, so just don't do that. But that's where
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: you talk about the spirit of the law versus a
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: letter of the laws, like what is this law designed
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: to do? And so as law enforcement, whether that's you know,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: fishing wildlife and you know, we had some hits with that,
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: like tagged immediately upon kill. Well that got changed before
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: moving it because the guy got a ticket and he's like, well,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: I haven't moved it. We're gutting it. But I didn't
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: take it. He's like said, don't what is this actually accomplished?
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: If I don't take this thing now versus five minutes
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: from now, it doesn't do anything. The idea is that
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: you can't move it around and transport it, because then
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: if you get caught, you're like, oh, I was gonna
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: tag it. It's like, but you didn't. So I think
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: that's where you get to this. Like you said, is
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: it unloaded? It's like everybody knows, like, hey, can you
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: shoot me with this gun? Or is it taking apart
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: and put in a bag. That's kind of the definition
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: where if you're pointing it at me, it's like, well
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: to have around in the chamber. So I think a
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: lot of that comes down to interpretation of letter of
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: the law or the spirit of the law. It's gonna
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: have to figured out speaking a letter to the law
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: boy that we wanted to hit on. And this is
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: like a real I can already like if people want
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: to stop listening, they can go ahead, they can go ahead,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: But I was about to drone on about some we're
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: gonna try. Yeah, there's something we wanted because the reason
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: the reason we have an obligation to talk about this
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: is because we invited We invited it. We did from lawyers.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we did. Yeah. I heard from a lot
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: of very very kind and knowledgeable people on this and
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: really helped my understanding. It's good enough as a bunch
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: of lawyers out there. Do you hear from any assholes? No,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: Sam got glowing reviews, good good Joe. Joe mentioned one
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: that was that was a little like maybe distasteful. I'm like,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: I don't if it doesn't have anything substantive, I don't
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: really need to see it. The lawyers that rode in
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: and I read, I read a handful of him last night.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: Lawyers that wrote in, we're saying almost unanimously that Sam
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: did a fair job of walking through the Supreme Court
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: case Doctor, which people are probably sticking hearing about. I
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: got a letter of correction from Ben Long who said
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: that he in fact did not tell me not to
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: talk about it. He said, just talk about it carefully. Um,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: but in this we had a thing. So I'm gonna
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: try to bring people up to speed in some kind
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: of efficient fashion. So I just want to touch on
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: this correction, because this is the most detailed crack can
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: we've ever done. If it's in fact, it can be
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: counted as a correction. The Supreme Court is hearing a case.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: They already heard the case, they haven't decided on. It
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: would be Um. It has to do with if a tribe.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: In this case, we're talking about the Crow tribe. The tribe,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: the Crow tribe has a treaty with the United States
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: from the eight hundreds that allows them to hunt on
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: their own reservation but also on unoccupied lands outside of
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: their reservation. And there's been a lot of ambiguity about
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: what unoccupied lands means. Does that mean any national forest,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: national park, BLM land, state land? Like, what does it mean?
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: And it's people felt like this had been settled, but
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: it's not settled, and that a member of the Crow
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: tribe went out and kills some elk off of his reservation,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: he got in trouble with the game ward and his
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: hunting companions pled guilty. He's saying, I'm not guilty because
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: my treaty gives me the right to hunt on the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: Bighorn National Forest because it's unoccupied land. And so it
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: goes to um it elevated up to where the Supreme
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: Court is going to hear this and make some kind
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: of decision, possibly to upset current understandings of whether or
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: not the National Forest in Wyoming could be regarded as
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: on occupied landfair Okay, In this we were talking about um.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: How this individual when he first gets in trouble for
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: his poaching violation. He goes in front of a court
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: and the court tells him, don't tell me about your
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: don't tell me about your treaty rights. You're not allowed
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: to argue that you were exercising treaty rights. And I
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: was like, how can you prevent someone from making an art? Like,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: how can you prevent someone from like making their argument?
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: And a bunch of lawyers, some lawyers rolled into say, like,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: what it is that makes it? That would be a
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: situation where you're not allowed to give your to make
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: the case you want to make in front of a judge. Yeah,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: And I think and we muddled our way through it,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: and I think we were pretty close. But uh, a
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: lot of these these people wrote in with some some
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: really helpful corrections just from my own understanding of this.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: And so how that worked was that Herrera's lawyers, prior
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: to going to trial the would be the convicted poacher,
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: yes or yes, before he stood trial, they they sought
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: to have all charges dropped. They said, we have this treaty,
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: need to drop all charges. He didn't do anything wrong.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: So that is is something called a motion in leimon
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: a um. But and what that means is um, it's
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: settling issues before a trial by either asking the court
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: to pre approve the admissibility of something they planned to
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: present evidence or an argument, or asking the court to
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: exclude something that they don't want their opponent to present.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: So prior to the trial, his lawyer said, hey, you can't,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: you can't even try us for this. He's got a
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: he's got this treaty to support it. But then the
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: prosecution says, no, that has already been settled. It's already
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: been decided in the Repsist decision that we mentioned from
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: the late nineties, it's already been decided that the Crow
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Indians do not have a right to hunt on the
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: Bighorn National Forest. Specifically, the Tent Circuit ruled on that
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: that issue is settled. You cannot relitigate an issue that
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: is settled, got you, and so so saying don't bring
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: that all up again. Yeah, Rhodor decided that if you've
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: got something else to say, go ahead and say it,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: but don't lay that on me. Yeah. So in court then,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: because he pled not guilty, he had to make a
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: different argument, which he decided. They decided to go with
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't know where he was, didn't realize that he'd
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: crossed into Wyoming. And they're like, well, you're a game
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: word and at the time you should have known you're guilty.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: But then after that they appealed and to you know,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: the Wyoming Appellate Court. They um upheld the prior decision.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: They appealed to the Wyoming Supreme Court, they declined it,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: and then they appealed to the United States Supreme Court.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's a little amazing because I've
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: been reading a lot about this and the United Supate
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: State Supreme Court has something like seven or eight thousand
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: cases appealed to it every year, and they select like eight,
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: and so it's it's a little it's a little interesting
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: that they were able to get there. But one of
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: the one of the things the Supreme Court is looking at,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: how many cases of about eight it's crazy in the
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: same year because they're also here in the case about
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: the guy who has the pistol permit in New York.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: He's got a pistol permit for his home that prohibits
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: him from taking his pistol out of his home, and
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: he's saying, why do my second amendment rights end at
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: my doorstep. And they're hearing that case too. This is
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: big year for hunters for in the Supreme Court. So
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: so that so the Supreme Court is interested in this
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: very thing, and so you know kind of um, they're
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: interested in issue preclusion um where where it's it's a
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: it's you know, it's this judicial doctrine that they're they're
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: not really sure if if that was the right decision
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: to not allow him to relitigate a settled issue. And
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: and as we know the problem with this is that
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: there's another Supreme Court the mill Locks versus Minnesota decision
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: that kind of shook the underpinnings of the repsist decision.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: It didn't overturn it, but it it uh, it undermined it.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: So they're they're looking they're looking at this, this this
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: idea of whether you can relitigate something if if you will.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: There's been holes poked into it. Like like an example
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: I was laying out as let's say you lived in
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: some situation where they said no one like we've decided
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: that it is never justifiable to kill someone in self defense.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: So then you kill someone in self defense and you
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: go up a murder trial, and you're like, but dude,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: we need to revisit the idea of whether it's okay
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: to kill someone's self defense. Like, I'm not done talking
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: about that. And this is kind of a little bit
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: of what's it is it is? And um, so if
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: we covered that, there was one more email that I
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: found was very interesting and provides a, you know, a
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: good perspective on on this case and perhaps where it
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: will go. Another thing I learned is that this this
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: decision is likely to be issued in June. We were
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: going like, oh, well, I heard it was this summer,
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe it be later, but it's the Supreme Court is
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: going to go in on recess after that, so they
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: usually issue a lot of their their rulings prior to
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: going on recess. Thought from it, Yeah, I'm kind of
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: obsessed with the Horari Wyoming case. This is the one
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: you're talking about right here. UM somewhat, So I was.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about this because treaty lack came up.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: So in UM I sent the Judiciary Committee and we
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: had the hearing for the CSK T water compact. Um
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: my second um two sessions ago, I guess, and it's
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: huge and what they argued was that the tribe has
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: that's confederated right. So the confederation Cutiny tribe, which is
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: the Flathead basically area. So they had a ruling where
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: they they redid the water compact. So they were going
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: through and the water is a huge issue in Montone Age,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: you guys, I'm sure are aware. And what they said
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: is that the tribe had primary water rights or we're
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: trying to establish primary water rights even back to you know,
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: some of these claims are in the eighteen hundreds that
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: people filed for their water rights, and they're saying, well,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: the treaty was like eighteen I don't remember the year
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: off top of my head, but it's it was prior.
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: The treaty was signed prior to these water rights, so
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: they're saying these should be a higher priority. And the
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: language that they used in the treaty to make this
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: claim was that the treaty granted the tribal members the
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: right to hunt and fish in common with the population.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: So what they're saying is, well, you have the right
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: to go fishing on any land that anybody else can
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: go fishing on. And it, you know, it gets into
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: the nuances of what does that mean exactly? But the
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: argument that they made was, if you have the right
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: to hunt and fish on a stream over in like
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: and we're talking like a big timber area. So this
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: is how far out the water rights went. They said,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: if you have a right to hunt and fish, then
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: you have a right to to mandate that there's an
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: appropriate amount of water to protect the fisheries in those areas.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: So that irrigators who might have a priority date that's
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: you know, in the eight hundreds for their water rights,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: then can be argued that well, that the treaty prohibits
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: them from using water that could then affect the industream flows,
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: you know, two miles away, because they have the right
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: to fish there, and if you lower the water to
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: where it's no longer um beneficial to the fisheries, than
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: you're obsurfing that. And so that was the argument that
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: they made, and the treaty went through, and it was
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: compounded with the fact that the Montana Constitution says the
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: waters of Montana are owned by the people of Montana,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: and so the treaty the way that it's written is
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: since the treaty or the Water Compact is actually states
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: that the water is held in trust by the federal government,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: so it's not actually owned directly by the tribes. It's
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: owned through the federal government. So then it's like, wait
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: a second, our constitution says that we have that we
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: own our water. How can the federal government then own
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: our water? So it was a huge issue, and you know,
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuances, but it's kind of the
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: same argument. It's like, well, what is the tribal what
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: is the treaty actually grant you? Does it grant you
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: the right to have this? And so that's a that's
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: a great lead in. It's a huge, huge, Yeah, it's
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: a huge issue and people are vehement on both sides
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: of it. So yeah, and so this other one I
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about is exactly that. It's like what
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: did the treaty and and and this guy uh he
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: he says, there's a recent recent law graduate and just
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: took the bar last week, but he did study Indian
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: law and wanted to explain something that they felt like
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: we missed. And so he explains that the idea of
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: canons of construction, they're basically rules that like underpin laws
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: and understanding of of laws such that you know later
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: when they're brought up again. You can understand, you know,
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: understand where where they're coming from. And so the the
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: the cannonate of construction for federal Indian law comes from
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court in eighteen thirty Supreme Court decision eighteen thirty two.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: So this is even prior to that that treaty being signed.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: But there's something there's a quote, a concurring opinion from
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: Justice McLean that says, the language used in treaties with
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: the Indians should never be construed to their prejudice. How
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: the words of the treaty were understood by this unlettered people,
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: rather than their critical meaning, should form the rule of construction.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: So they like the understanding. So it's it's it's what
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: they thought it meant at the time. What the natives
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: thought it meant at the time is what matters, not
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: what our modern understanding of that word or phrase means.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: So this gets at the So we were just talking
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: about one issue in the Supreme Court of issue preclusion,
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: and this is the other issue that they're discussing as
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: unoccupied lands. And so this guy is suggesting this is
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: interesting too because we had brought up the context of
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: the time previously as far as where there are animals,
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: and at that time, there were no animals on those lands,
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: So in that context what was understood at the time.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: And we like, well, that's not part of it because
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: there's there's no al interesting that they would have thrown
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: that in. But this of like you can hunt unoccupied
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: lands as long as there's any game there, because it's like,
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: why even add that in? Yeah, and and Wyoming argues
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: explicitly that it was under they they think it was
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: understood in these treaty arrangements that the game was going away,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: that it would soon be extirpated, and in fact it was.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: And and so they they saw that all these things
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: as temporary arrangements, that that the the this was this
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: is a transitional phase as the natives, as the crow,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: transitioned to an agrarian society. So Wyoming is like, well, yeah,
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: we saw they Yeah, this treaty was signed, but you
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: can hunt until they're gone. Yeah, every everybody, everybody assumed
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: that the land surrounding would become occupied quickly as states
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: were established and settlers moved in, and you can hunt
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: all this area as long as they're still game because
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: it's going away fast. And in fact Elk were extirpated
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: from the Big Horn Mountains shortly after the signature of
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: that tree, and were brought back through very rigorous restocking efforts.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: I think another thing that the warrants pointing out is
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: tribal members are obviously allowed to hunt um the same
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: as any other resident nonresidents set law, So this is all.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: It's not like they can't hunt. It would be that
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: they can hunt under the same guidelines that any other
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: state resident or nonresident would come in and hunt. But
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: this has to do with like an overlay, which is
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: just specific tribal hunting rights specific the tribal members, yes,
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: and and and the specific like tribal treaty hunting. It
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: it's it's an important distinction for people to understand, because yes,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: natives can apply and draw these tags in the Big
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: Horn Mountains in the in this area, but the tribal
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: treaty hunting, which which occurs in many states, often exists
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: on a different plane than state managed you know, normal hunting.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's often often in seasons are often not existent,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: bag limits are different. It's it's more like it's more
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: like Alaska subsistence hunting than it than it fits within
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: our you know, neat little program of of state managed wildlife.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: So are you good on clearing points? I think so
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: we're gonna put it the rest. Let's put the rest.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: And in June you're gonna come on and tell us
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: what happened, if it's a big deal or not. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: I mean and and my my views continue to evolved.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: I said, I think I put it as a three
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: or four last time, that it's going to change the
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: world as we know it. Yeah, And and I think
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: I might be more of a solid for even a
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: five or six after some of these conversations I've had
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks. This could have major
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: ramifications for game management. I I wouldn't say major, but
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: I would say it could significant ramifications. All right, man, interesting,
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: thank you? Anything to add? Joannie? I don't got the
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: turkey calls in your pocket. Yeah, I'm I'm getting ready.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: We're lessing a month away. Ben and I are counting down.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: We're counting down April second. Now where we're going on
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: the Rio grand, the Rio grand A, the Rio grand Turky. Okay, Seth,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: thanks for coming down, Manure. We're gonna have We're gonna
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: probably have to call on you again for corrections and whatnot.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: I'll be around all right and thanks every How about
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: some closing thoughts? Oh you want to hit the closer?
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily have one, but he presents the opportunity
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: opportunities to closers. I know, but I want one for
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: this video. Uh, Benny got a new concluders. That's a
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: lot of pressure. You canna film me or film Steve
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: while I conclude sure there's an important one on the
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: Rio Grande because I forgot about that that overlaps with
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: our Austin, Texas live podcast dates. Oh yeah, that's a
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: good one. Doesn't overlap we go from there to to
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: Austin for the live show. Well it's one plane ticket,
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. What's the point. That's your concluder. I
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: think that's just something to mention we're doing a big, fancy,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: super fun live podcast in Austin, Texas. Tickets for sale yet, Yep,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: they are, They are for sale. My concluider is as
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: we were talking about shooting, I was thinking about all
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: the movies I watched as a kid and all the
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: bullshit shots that were made that were clearly not you know,
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of Legends of the Falling some dove.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of Tombstone, Tombstone. I was thinking of
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: all these movies quickly, all these like seminal movies at
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: shape TOI I think about the West, where all there
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: was at least a or a number of bullshit shots
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: in each one of those. What I always hated was
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: that somebody has a revolver and they shoot like eighteen times.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: There's a mel Gives a movie, The Patriot, where the
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: red coat the officer, he has a muzzle loaded flint
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: lock pistol and the dude is riding a horse like
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: two yards down this creek and he just pulls up
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: and boom, and the dude falls off his horse. And like, yeah,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: you ever watched all the buster scrugs or Yeah, that's
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: almost a parody of good shooting. But that's a parody
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: of like what's been done in the world in the
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: realm of like Western shooting. Yeah, it's like a satire.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: But that's my conclude. Oh I got a concluder. Um,
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: We've talked over the years a lot of a lot
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: about a documentary that I did with zero point zero production,
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: and um, you can watch it now. Go to stars
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: in the sky film dot com. Make sure I get
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: that right, stars in the sky film dot com. And
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: then it's available for uh streaming and download on video.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: You can rent it, you can buy it, so check
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: it out. Full length feature film available now. How was
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: that for concluding, Yanni? Good job you wanta turn that
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: came around and hit your own concluder stas, Thanks for coming,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: We appreciate my pleasure. Has got another way. He's raising
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: his hand. No, he doesn't know, he's just raising his phone.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone,