Latest / The Trauma Therapist / A Journey of Healing with Tomilyn Ward, LPC

Transcript

A Journey of Healing with Tomilyn Ward, LPC · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma River's podcast. My name is guiming
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Speaker 1: Ferson and I interview incredible people who share the story
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Speaker 1: of how trauma has shaped their lives. And a big
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Speaker 1: thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to my guest
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Speaker 1: and our sponsors. So five, four, three, two and one.
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Speaker 1: Our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to
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Speaker 1: have them against guests today. Tomlin Ward, Tommy, welcome, welcome back.
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Speaker 2: It's great to be back.
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Speaker 1: Awesome. Tommy Ward is a founder of My Wellness Center
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Speaker 1: and My Wellness Retreats, whose goal is to help individuals
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Speaker 1: and families heal from past events and navigate life's challenges.
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Speaker 1: She counsels clients through milestones such as pregnancy and adoption,
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Speaker 1: supports veterans living with PTSD, and guiding adults exploring their
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Speaker 1: sexual identity. Today, we're going to be focusing on the
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Speaker 1: retreats aspect. Very excited to hear about that. But before
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Speaker 1: we dive into that, Tommy share with the listeners maybe
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Speaker 1: who weren't familiar with you, where you're from originally and
1:07
Speaker 1: where you are currently Sure.
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Speaker 2: I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 3: Pittsburgh is one of those towns that everybody seems to
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Speaker 3: go back to. I spent some time in Georgia before
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Speaker 3: moving on to New England. I led adventure trips in
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Speaker 3: New England for a few years, and so that was hiking, biking,
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Speaker 3: backpacking trips.
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Speaker 2: I also did a stint.
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Speaker 3: In Arizona where I'm going to lead troubled youth on
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Speaker 3: Modernists psychology adventures so.
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Speaker 2: That they could work through some of their issues.
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Speaker 3: And then I ended up back in my hometown.
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Speaker 1: Why do people go back This is not a dig,
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Speaker 1: but just a curiosity. Why do people go back to Pittsburgh.
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Speaker 3: It's a really comfortable place. It's very fam oriented. We
2:02
Speaker 3: still have a great sense of community. It's very easy
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Speaker 3: to reconnect with people you grew up with or to
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Speaker 3: continue to build a sense of community.
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Speaker 2: It's also affordable. It's one of the I think that's
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Speaker 2: one of the.
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Speaker 3: Top ten most affordable places to live as our cities.
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Speaker 3: So it's easy to be in the suburbs. It's pretty
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Speaker 3: quick to get to the city. We do have some
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Speaker 3: cultural things happening here in Pittsburgh which are it's new
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Speaker 3: and exciting. It wasn't always like that when I was
2:29
Speaker 3: growing up, but It's nice to see that happening.
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Speaker 2: Now.
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Speaker 1: Very cool. All right, let's dig into this. So you've
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Speaker 1: been working on my wellness retreats. Yes, why, well, what's
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Speaker 1: how did this come about?
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Speaker 3: We've been offering continuing education credits for the last few
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Speaker 3: years and we've had quite a following on Zoom. We've
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Speaker 3: had up to four hundred and fifty people in our
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Speaker 3: Zoom trainings. And one of the things that I find
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Speaker 3: as a therapist since I burn out every few months,
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Speaker 3: and what I've been doing is going on retreats. One
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Speaker 3: of the retreats I went on was Healing the Self
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Speaker 3: of a Therapist. I just came back from a retreat
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Speaker 3: in Panama that I'm focused on by Carrious Trauma for Therapists,
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Speaker 3: and what I'm finding doing those retreats for myself is
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Speaker 3: that it's a very healing process and we wanted to
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Speaker 3: offer that to the people that we're working with as well.
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Speaker 3: So we spent the last year creating curriculum. We have
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Speaker 3: our first retreat launching March seventh, twenty twenty sixth. We're
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Speaker 3: going to be at the Goddess Garden in Costa Rica
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Speaker 3: for seven days, so it will be fifteen APA credits,
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Speaker 3: three gore Mate meals, a day adventures. This is a
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Speaker 3: very cool site because it is jungle and rainforest. It's
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Speaker 3: one of the few places in Costa Rica where you
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Speaker 3: get to experience both of those. We have our second
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Speaker 3: retreat plan for Panama at the Salvatara Resort I'm sorry,
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Speaker 3: July nineteenth through the twenty fifth, and that's a really
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Speaker 3: cool time to be in Panama because of how backwheels
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Speaker 3: are coming through.
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Speaker 2: That's a very exclusive site too.
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Speaker 3: And in addition to the continuing education credits, there is hiking, paddleboarding, kayaking,
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Speaker 3: and other adventures available.
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Speaker 1: Oh my god. So given your background in leading these trips,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure it just injects what you're doing with excitement
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Speaker 1: and authenticity and genuiness. Okay, so let's get out in
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Speaker 1: the front. So this is for who are these retreats for.
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Speaker 3: They are for a therapists, psychologists, anybody who needs in
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Speaker 3: the mental health field who needs continuing education credits. So
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Speaker 3: we're able to offer credits through the ASWB and CBB
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Speaker 3: and APA as well as the New York Boards Social Workers.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so the mental health field as opposed to like helpers.
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Speaker 3: We do have non ce guests that can attend, okay,
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Speaker 3: guests who are obtaining the continuing education credits, and they're
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Speaker 3: welcome to attend the courses with us during the day,
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Speaker 3: but we do want to limit that to people who
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Speaker 3: are attending with her containing education guests.
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Speaker 1: So you you've been to these other retreats, you have
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Speaker 1: your background in doing this stuff. My guess is you know,
5:40
Speaker 1: coming back from those other retreats, you were like, this
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Speaker 1: was great, but what about this? This was great? But
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Speaker 1: why shouldn't we You know, how what did you want
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Speaker 1: to put together? Let me before you even answer that,
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Speaker 1: what was the goal in creating these retreats? I mean,
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Speaker 1: it's just simply to help people and burn out or what.
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Speaker 3: It's absolutely to help people reconnect to themselves. As a therapist,
6:03
Speaker 3: we're in it and know a lot of times we're
6:04
Speaker 3: in it twenty to thirty hours a week, depending on
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Speaker 3: and even more for some people, depending on where we're
6:10
Speaker 3: working and who we're working with, and that can be exhausting.
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Speaker 2: We're absorbing everybody's energy.
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Speaker 3: I'm a trauma therapist, so and I'm the trauma therapist
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Speaker 3: that I get the clients that make other therapists cry.
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Speaker 2: So I take on a lot of heavy material.
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Speaker 3: So it's about finding a way to go that material,
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Speaker 3: reconnect with yourself, heal if you need to heal from
6:33
Speaker 3: the trauma or the vicarious trauma, just from being in
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Speaker 3: this field into ground I think as therapists, sometimes we're
6:43
Speaker 3: teaching mindfulness, we're teaching grounding. If you're a somatic provider,
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Speaker 3: you're teaching sematics. But it's really important that we're practicing
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Speaker 3: that ourselves so that we can continue to be the
6:54
Speaker 3: best therapist for the clients.
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Speaker 1: So in structuring your program, what were some of the
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Speaker 1: things you were looking at you wanted to include or exclude?
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Speaker 1: How did you want to go about this?
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Speaker 3: We definitely I really enjoy working with therapists because it's
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Speaker 3: bringing white minded people together.
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Speaker 2: We structured the first retreat.
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Speaker 3: We're going to focus on taking the clinician from post
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Speaker 3: traumatic resilience to post traumatic growth. So what we're finding
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Speaker 3: is a lot of times people are in this survival
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Speaker 3: space where like resilience is the ability to bounce back,
7:39
Speaker 3: but we don't just want to be bounced back. We
7:43
Speaker 3: want to move to a place where we're experiencing positive
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Speaker 3: changes and helping our clients to experience those positive changes
7:49
Speaker 3: as well. In what we're doing for the first retreat,
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Speaker 3: we have and need an energy medicine provider who's also
7:56
Speaker 3: an advanced LCSW.
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Speaker 2: We have a somatic practitioner. We have a parts work therapist.
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Speaker 3: So we're going to have workshops every day to help
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Speaker 3: people just really connect with the self of a therapist
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Speaker 3: and essentially be on a healing journey with others who
8:14
Speaker 3: are in the same situation.
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Speaker 2: As they are.
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Speaker 1: How many attendees are you? Are you limiting it.
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Speaker 3: To We're gonna have twenty attendees and five speakers.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Now, in doing this is the expectation that every
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Speaker 1: or the is the hope that everyone will go to
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Speaker 1: every workshop, or you're going to have different people going
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Speaker 1: to different workshops.
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Speaker 3: Everybody would go to the workshops to get the credits, Okay, Okay,
8:42
Speaker 3: we're offering the continuing education, so you have to attend
8:45
Speaker 3: to get the credits. Okay, it's daily attendance.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
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Speaker 2: The ces are based on daily attendance.
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Speaker 1: Okay. So given your background, what do you what do you?
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Speaker 1: What do you bringing to the table here?
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Speaker 3: Specifically, we're bringing the ability to connect to unwind, to
9:11
Speaker 3: just really get back to the self of who we
9:14
Speaker 3: are and to heal.
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Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot of healing that occurs.
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Speaker 1: In these times. I would imagine, I mean, just from
9:23
Speaker 1: you talking about your own experience going to those other events,
9:28
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, please, this sounds amazing just to
9:32
Speaker 1: be in that environment and of itself with the other
9:35
Speaker 1: people who have gone through it. I'm curious about some
9:38
Speaker 1: of your experiences, What things or events or experiences made
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Speaker 1: you think, Holy crap, this is amazing. I want to
9:48
Speaker 1: do this. I can do this.
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Speaker 2: Definitely.
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Speaker 3: My background leading trips in the past, leading adventure trips
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Speaker 3: on the grounding that occurred one of my first healing
10:02
Speaker 3: adventures in life. I had a big loss when I
10:05
Speaker 3: was in college.
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Speaker 2: It was a major.
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Speaker 3: Loss, and I just happened to be signed up for
10:11
Speaker 3: an outward bound gym class at Penn State, and with that,
10:17
Speaker 3: we went to we were going to Florida, and we
10:20
Speaker 3: were sailing, and we're all college students.
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Speaker 2: So the assumption was we were going to Penn State.
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Speaker 3: To outward bound with Penn State, We're going to be sailing,
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Speaker 3: drinking Margarita's and just hanging.
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Speaker 2: Out with our friends.
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Speaker 3: Once we got to Florida. We quickly realized that wasn't
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Speaker 3: the case. They separated us from all of our friends.
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Speaker 3: I believe there were five different little dingy boats, and
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Speaker 3: you ended up on boast with total strangers. We spread
10:50
Speaker 3: out oars, we slept on oars throughout the week on
10:54
Speaker 3: top of us sleeping mats. But it was an adventure
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Speaker 3: that it was a time that I needed to be grounded.
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Speaker 2: I needed to be out.
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Speaker 3: There in that water and and to really learn about myself.
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Speaker 3: So that's one of the reasons that I ended up
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Speaker 3: doing wilderness therapy for for a while after college. And
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Speaker 3: that's also a reason why I was leading adventure trips,
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Speaker 3: just to stay grounded, to reconnect with nature. That's a
11:24
Speaker 3: big important part of this. A lot of times we're
11:27
Speaker 3: in the office, we're behind screens, we have shoes on,
11:31
Speaker 3: we're not We're not able to ground in lots of ways.
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Speaker 3: And one thing that didn't mentioned is we're offering yoga
11:37
Speaker 3: every morning as well. There's yoga to start the day
11:41
Speaker 3: and then the adventures in the afternoon to reconnect from
11:44
Speaker 3: different ways.
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Speaker 1: That sounds amazing. I've I've done outward Bound before, and
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Speaker 1: I know the for me because I'm not like a
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Speaker 1: wilderness person, but it was. They were life changing for me. Oh. Absolutely,
12:03
Speaker 1: there's an aspect to that that there are elements of
12:08
Speaker 1: that that leads or helps create that environment. You know,
12:14
Speaker 1: you talked about separating from your friends. What aspects if any?
12:21
Speaker 1: I mean, so that's that's kind of an interesting ingredient.
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Speaker 1: How do or do you infuse what you're doing with
12:28
Speaker 1: some of those elements.
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Speaker 3: Certainly when we're doing our workshops, we're separating therapists from people.
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Speaker 3: They if they're attending with friends. You don't have to
12:37
Speaker 3: attend with friends. I've gone to these events by myself,
12:41
Speaker 3: and actually every time i've done it, I've gained a
12:43
Speaker 3: lifelong friend. Actually going you thought to visit a friend
12:48
Speaker 3: next week, so and they're going to be teaching with
12:51
Speaker 3: me in Costa Rica as well from one of these events.
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Speaker 3: But it's about just connecting and healing with someone who
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Speaker 3: has those skills and is looking for the same thing.
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Speaker 3: So oftentimes your partner not up in sessions, and we
13:05
Speaker 3: have different partners for every session, so that you have
13:08
Speaker 3: space to heal and just be vulnerable with another therapist
13:12
Speaker 3: that has those same skills.
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Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. I mean I
13:17
Speaker 1: could see where it would be comforting to bring a
13:21
Speaker 1: friend along and exciting too, but also really I think
13:29
Speaker 1: exciting to your friends. I'm sorry, go.
13:33
Speaker 3: Ahead, he as vulnerable with your friends as you need
13:36
Speaker 3: to be to.
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Speaker 1: Heal Right, that's a really interesting point.
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Speaker 2: I remember I could have a lot of shame.
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Speaker 3: There could be a lot of guilt, and those are
13:44
Speaker 3: things that you're not always projecting onto your friendships for
13:48
Speaker 3: whatever reason.
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Speaker 1: The other aspect can you mentioned helping people move from
13:54
Speaker 1: resilience to growth, And for me, I remember we're The
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Speaker 1: first outward bound trip I did was a winter backpacking
14:06
Speaker 1: and dog sledding in Maine. And we got there and
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Speaker 1: it was like, you know, you get ready in all
14:13
Speaker 1: the gear check and then it was at night hiking
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Speaker 1: and I was like completely out of my element, but
14:22
Speaker 1: you do I'm sorry.
14:25
Speaker 2: Snowshoeing not at that.
14:27
Speaker 1: Point, but we did do snowshoeing, but it was again,
14:32
Speaker 1: it took me completely out of my element. But you
14:34
Speaker 1: get through that and things start to change and it's
14:38
Speaker 1: about growth. It was amazing, and.
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Speaker 3: That's exactly what we're loving to do. We're taking people
14:44
Speaker 3: out of their element. We're taking them into the rainforest.
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Speaker 3: We're taking them on night hikes, We're taking them on
14:48
Speaker 3: holler monkey hikes. We have excursions on the water as
14:52
Speaker 3: well on the ocean, and I we're really getting people
14:56
Speaker 3: outside of their comfort zones so that they can connect
15:01
Speaker 3: with themselves in ways that we're not always able to
15:03
Speaker 3: in our society.
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Speaker 2: We're moving so fast, we're seeing so many clients.
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Speaker 3: Sometimes in a healthy space, we would want to be
15:11
Speaker 3: able to take breaks and make sure we have lunch.
15:13
Speaker 3: But what I hear from therapists quite often is if
15:16
Speaker 3: they don't have a lunch scheduled into their schedule, then
15:20
Speaker 3: oftentimes their skipping lunch. They're full, they're going from client
15:23
Speaker 3: to client, So just helping them slow down and be
15:29
Speaker 3: a part of life.
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Speaker 1: In your own experience. I'm curious about when you attended
15:37
Speaker 1: those events, were you hearing a lot of the same
15:44
Speaker 1: struggles trials from therapists in the field or.
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Speaker 2: What I would say. I heard a lot of the
15:51
Speaker 2: same heaviness.
15:52
Speaker 3: We had people who work with different populations, but the
15:57
Speaker 3: heaviness from the complicated cases was the same. The pain
16:03
Speaker 3: that they were carrying that that was the same. Their
16:06
Speaker 3: situations were often different, but the way that they felt
16:10
Speaker 3: or the way that they carried it or they released
16:12
Speaker 3: it during the accessions.
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Speaker 1: That was the similarity you mentioned certain workshops, talk about
16:20
Speaker 1: those and how you feel. I guess specifically why you
16:26
Speaker 1: chose those specific workshops to bring to this event.
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Speaker 3: Sure, one of our presenters is a somatic movement therapist
16:36
Speaker 3: and one of the things our body. We know, the
16:40
Speaker 3: body keeps the score, the body holds the pain, so
16:43
Speaker 3: learning to move through that sematically is really important. We
16:48
Speaker 3: have our Eden Energy Practitioner who eat A energy.
16:54
Speaker 1: Is excuse me, that's eat an E D E N D. Yeah.
17:01
Speaker 3: It's created by Donna Eden, and it's essentially like a
17:03
Speaker 3: micro PhD and energy work similar to Reykie, but it's
17:07
Speaker 3: much more advanced.
17:08
Speaker 2: I think it's a three or four year program.
17:12
Speaker 3: And the woman, Rita Lampe, who is offering that is
17:16
Speaker 3: a licensed clinical social worker and a trauma practitioner, so
17:20
Speaker 3: she's using she's helping people to incorporate energy work into
17:25
Speaker 3: their practice and to to help heal. And she's going
17:31
Speaker 3: to also be offering sessions group sessions every morning after
17:35
Speaker 3: the yoga session just to help people connect with themselves
17:38
Speaker 3: if they want, and then she's going to be offering.
17:42
Speaker 2: Individual sessions as well on site.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's eden. What are the workshops?
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Speaker 3: We have a Parts Work workshop and that's with Caroen
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Speaker 3: Carol Daval and she is going to incorporate the eight
18:00
Speaker 3: ss of parts work and just help people really connect
18:04
Speaker 3: with with the different parts that can come up. Oftentimes
18:08
Speaker 3: right now, I'm kind of in therapist mode or admin mode.
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Speaker 2: But what other parts are coming in to our sessions?
18:17
Speaker 3: What other parts are coming into our day to day
18:19
Speaker 3: life because the therapist part, are we taking some of
18:23
Speaker 3: our work home or are we playing that out with
18:27
Speaker 3: our families? Like learning how to let go at is
18:30
Speaker 3: another one of those sessions that we're going to have there.
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Speaker 1: How did you find how did you locate this facility?
18:37
Speaker 1: The first one saying that's happening in March.
18:39
Speaker 3: I interview to other people who have been offering retreats,
18:45
Speaker 3: and I also had a lot of calls with places
18:50
Speaker 3: in Costa Rica that we're very healing.
18:54
Speaker 2: The site in Panama I've.
18:56
Speaker 3: Actually been to, and that's a wonderful site. You actually
18:58
Speaker 3: have to get there by boat. There's the only way
19:01
Speaker 3: to get there is by vote.
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Speaker 2: The only it's the only site on this island. It's
19:09
Speaker 2: very secluded, but it's also very wonderful.
19:12
Speaker 3: The meals are absolutely out of this world, and it's
19:17
Speaker 3: just such a safe and lovely place to be.
19:21
Speaker 1: I mean, just hearing you talk about it sounds amazing.
19:24
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds healing in and of itself.
19:28
Speaker 2: Just being in these places is healing. But then having
19:31
Speaker 2: the expertise of.
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Speaker 3: The people who are offering the workshops in their years
19:35
Speaker 3: of experience in the field, teaching at universities, working with
19:41
Speaker 3: other providers as consultants or supervisors, I think that that's
19:45
Speaker 3: a really important aspect as well. They're just really able
19:47
Speaker 3: to relate and to connect and to bring everything that
19:51
Speaker 3: they have to offer to the table for the therapist attending.
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Speaker 1: My guess is not every event for therapists talks about
20:04
Speaker 1: taking people out of their comfort zone.
20:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that's true, But yet you.
20:10
Speaker 1: Feel that's an important part of what you're doing.
20:13
Speaker 2: Why so, I think it's.
20:17
Speaker 3: Very At least I'm speaking from my own personal experience,
20:22
Speaker 3: it's very easy for me to get to feel stagnant,
20:25
Speaker 3: to feel burned out, to feel sometimes like I'm not
20:28
Speaker 3: making a difference, I'm not moving my clients forward and
20:32
Speaker 3: is that something that's happening with me? Is that actually happening?
20:37
Speaker 2: What do I need to.
20:41
Speaker 3: Make sure I'm not bringing any kind of transference to
20:43
Speaker 3: the sessions that I'm offering.
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Speaker 1: When I first went did my outward Bound trip, one
20:51
Speaker 1: of the outward Bound trips, I was I was scared,
20:55
Speaker 1: like I said, but going through something, especially going through
21:01
Speaker 1: something with other people, right, you have that community people
21:04
Speaker 1: you don't even know. There's something so powerful and profound,
21:09
Speaker 1: And I can imagine doing it with a group of
21:12
Speaker 1: therapists who are all, Look, if you're a therapist and
21:16
Speaker 1: you're going to this event, I think there's something special.
21:19
Speaker 1: You're having a special, unique experience in and of itself.
21:24
Speaker 2: You're going to these events.
21:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's an incredible what you're doing.
21:31
Speaker 1: So who needs to apply to this or is it
21:37
Speaker 1: an application process?
21:39
Speaker 3: It's a registration process. Imagine that anybody would be turned away.
21:47
Speaker 3: It's anybody who needs a reset. One of the reasons
21:50
Speaker 3: we chose March is it's one of the best times
21:52
Speaker 3: to be in Costa Rica.
21:54
Speaker 2: I think it's considered the green season, but also it's on.
21:58
Speaker 3: The tail end of winter and when there can be
22:00
Speaker 3: just such a such a time of burnout for so
22:03
Speaker 3: many people. We have a lot of clients who are
22:06
Speaker 3: going to be coming office seasonal effective disorder. They're gonna
22:10
Speaker 3: be more down and it can be harder to be
22:13
Speaker 3: a therapist in different seasons.
22:16
Speaker 2: So that's one of the reasons that we wanted to
22:18
Speaker 2: do this. What was the question again, I'm sorry, Well.
22:23
Speaker 1: The question was like, basically, who who who needs to apply?
22:28
Speaker 1: Is there an application process? You said, no, it's basically
22:32
Speaker 1: just a registration process. Do people need do people need
22:35
Speaker 1: to have a degree? Can like coaches, people who are
22:39
Speaker 1: coaches do this?
22:43
Speaker 3: I think coaches would would be a great non se guest.
22:46
Speaker 3: They just wouldn't necessarily need the continuing education. They could
22:50
Speaker 3: absolutely attend the workshops.
22:52
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right.
22:56
Speaker 3: They are open to in the future, we would like
22:59
Speaker 3: to open this to doctors and nurses, especially with we
23:03
Speaker 3: also our Panama one is focused on par needle work
23:06
Speaker 3: because that's one of the areas that we specialize here.
23:09
Speaker 2: At the office. So and we know that those providers
23:13
Speaker 2: are often very burned out.
23:14
Speaker 3: Our Waiburn delivery doctors and nurses, they're just going from
23:19
Speaker 3: delivery to delivery. They often don't have any time to unwind,
23:22
Speaker 3: So that is something that we want to do is
23:24
Speaker 3: open this up to more medical professionals.
23:27
Speaker 2: In the future.
23:29
Speaker 1: It's interesting that I think therapists are famous for not
23:33
Speaker 1: really taking care of themselves right. Self help is something
23:39
Speaker 1: many therapists struggle with.
23:41
Speaker 2: Sure.
23:41
Speaker 3: I remember as a child, I was always told that
23:44
Speaker 3: got Carpenter's house is always the worst house. The mechanics
23:48
Speaker 3: cars never fixed and I and it applies to therapists
23:50
Speaker 3: as well. We're always Most therapists go into this because
23:54
Speaker 3: we're helpers. We want to help other people, and that
23:58
Speaker 3: can really inhibit our abilities to continue to work on
24:01
Speaker 3: ourselves and make sure we're coming and presenting as our
24:04
Speaker 3: best version.
24:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, Tommy. How do people learn more
24:09
Speaker 1: about this? How do people register?
24:13
Speaker 3: What is my Wellness Retreats dot org. They can register
24:17
Speaker 3: right through the website. We're habit answer any questions. We
24:21
Speaker 3: also have a Facebook page.
24:22
Speaker 2: It's called my Wellness for Continuing Education Retreats for Therapists.
24:27
Speaker 3: You can request to join the Facebook page and we'll
24:31
Speaker 3: have more information about these retreats and retreats that we're
24:36
Speaker 3: planning for twenty twenty.
24:37
Speaker 1: Seven, okay, and we'll have that link up here at
24:41
Speaker 1: the show notes page at the Trauma Papers podcast dot com.
24:43
Speaker 1: Once again, that is my Wellness Retreats dot org Tommy. Awesome,
24:50
Speaker 1: I want to go.
24:52
Speaker 3: All right.
24:55
Speaker 1: Oh that's another question. Is it? Is it for men
24:59
Speaker 1: and women?
25:00
Speaker 2: Just women?
25:01
Speaker 1: Men and women? Okay, awesome, all right, once again my
25:04
Speaker 1: Wellness retreat dot org. Tommy, Thank you so much. Sounds amazing.
25:07
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right, we'll be in touch.
25:10
Speaker 2: Thanks