Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 555 - Is Bridging Our Divided Community Actually Worth It? - Brian Nguyen

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555 - Is Bridging Our Divided Community Actually Worth It? - Brian Nguyen · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Vietnamese podcast.
0:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Today I have a good friend of mine, Brian Minh, who is an attorney and an activist.
0:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And today I want to really figure out how to balance out the conversation of politics and politics and politics and politics.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I used to say I don't want to get into politics.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But so much of the work that I've done in the last few years is politically driven.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to find sort of that sweet spot where we can have conversation and show my
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: as a person who's a progressive with a lot of conservative and moderate leanings.
0:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably a lot more moderate than where you come from, Brian, because I am coming from a former military background.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what producer today he asked me, are you on to kiss some Republican ass?
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say, yes, I am.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm here to do metaphorically speaking.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: metaphorically speaking, because my community is my community and I don't want to alienate people.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're here for a lot of things.
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: We're here to talk about Gaza, we're here to talk about the upcoming elections, here a little Sagan.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think something that we talked about earlier is like, can we bridge Vietnamese people in all these different sectors?
1:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it worth it?
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian, welcome to the podcast.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those are all worthy topics to talk about and thank you for having me here to pleasure.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that, you know, there are things that we probably shouldn't talk about.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: There's things that, you know, I had recently learned and I keep bringing her up.
1:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a great interview.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with this idea of
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: the big sea word, right?
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nuanced thing where readbating and communism and all of these things.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I want to just say and address to all the people who call me communist, I think it's real funny.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not a communist nor do I support communism in any shape or form.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I just not the way I look at the way I look at life.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: However, we talked about this earlier,
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to this idea of Bernie Sanders and socialism, I think there are some merits that'll be out here.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I actually think it's incorrect to label Bernie Sanders style of Paul takes as socialist, right?
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, it only sounds socialist.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, first of all, he calls himself a Democratic socialist.
2:30
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't call himself socialist big S, right?
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, when you actually look at him,
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: in comparison to politicians in other countries, like in Europe, like the EU, for example, Ireland, London, Sweden, all the Norwegian countries, right?
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He's actually conservative compared to them.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, he is by no means communist, big sea because he is not in favor of the state owning the means of production, right?
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He believes 100% in private ownership.
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He believes in 100% in private income.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: right a lot of the Vietnamese Americans today of our generation younger you know younger 40 30 year old guys If they're taking this idea of like oh you're a communist
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just doing it out of like very, it's like a triple win in Vietnamese is like, you're just like, he's just red-baiting.
3:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think all these arguments online with people on opposite sides of the aisle, especially in the Vietnamese community, it always devolves into semantics and the definition of socialism, which is communism versus capitalism.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it'll be more productive to zoom out a little bit and just talk about what works and what doesn't work, right?
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you can acknowledge that, you know, USSR, Russian-type socialism doesn't work, right?
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Chinese communism, you know, from the 80s and 90s, doesn't work, right?
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But talk about what does work, right?
4:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, before we do, what does work?
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We know communism doesn't work.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: China is not a communist country.
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a capitalist country.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Vietnam is not a communist country.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll fight that to the death.
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's like everything is capitalist, but the state owns shit.
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: If we talk about it, it's a very pseudo communist.
4:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's really talk about that.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to talk about that.
4:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just saying, the public needs to understand that
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not, it's communism doesn't work anymore.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this idea of like a strict communist, like Marxist, Leninist, like these textbook ideas of communism, it's not working.
4:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Every word is converting into like this weird, pseudo capitalist, stay controlled capitalism.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned state control capitalism.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: there's another word for that.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called socialism for corporations.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Socialism for the rich, right?
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So socialism does very much exist, but only if you're a corporation and only if you're rich, right?
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But for the rest of us, we got to spend our own money.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about socialism.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so we already have socialism.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called Social Security.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Social Security, right?
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: The word social is half of the word socialism already, right?
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It was implemented by FDR during the New Deal, right?
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We have public roads, right?
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's paid for by our taxes.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We have public libraries.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, uh, care, metal.
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We got, uh, you know, firefighters, we got police, right, which conservatives love, right?
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That's funded by our taxes, right?
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So why stop short of that and say hey, why not fun healthcare too, right?
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what's the big deal?
5:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
5:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how about instead of paying uh, I don't know, $50,000 for your child to get an undergrad education at UCI, right?
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Free education.
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Not free, but paid for by our taxes.
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't we do free Europe this free.
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's free at the point of service, right?
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I hate to call it free because it's still paid for by our taxes, right?
6:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And by our taxes, I don't mean me and you, right?
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Ideally, it'll be paid for by millionaires and billionaires, right?
6:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Who, by the way, after they are taxed, will still be millionaires and billionaires.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So someone who makes a hundred billion, if they pay a five percent one-time
6:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll still have $95 billion after they pay that tax.
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know about you, but having a $95 billion to provide for your family, that's kind of rough, right?
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a big fight back.
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do I need to give the government more money when I work so hard to become a $3 million millionaire?
6:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I only have $4 million dollars.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna buy $5 million dollars.
6:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Why should I pay so much in taxes?
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I weren't so hard to make that.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're pretending to be a millionaire, right?
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a hypothetical.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hypothetically, you're not paying an income tax because what millionaires and billionaires do is they don't pay themselves an income, right?
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they do their taxes, their income is zero, and they borrow from their perspective wealth, and when they borrow money, they're technically in debt.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So all these ideas about taxing millionaires and billionaires are about taxing their wealth, not taxing their income, because they don't take an income.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the shell game they play to avoid paying taxes.
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if so many of us not know that.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when you break all the stuff down, like a lot of people don't know, or if they do know they still reside on the side of wait.
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I own, you know, three houses.
7:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I my net worth is three four million dollars.
7:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Why should I give any of that up?
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but when you're arguing with Vietnamese people online or in person about this stuff, you're not arguing with a million there, right?
7:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You're arguing with the person who maybe makes 150 a year, 250, 300 a year, right?
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And for some reason, if you make 300,000, you think that you have more in common of Jeff Bezos than the mechanic who makes 85,000 a year.
8:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: like trust me when I tell you.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're making 150, 200 a year, you have more in common with mechanics, with janitors and teachers than you do with the, you know, the Jeff Bezos of the world and basically anyone else who's in the Epstein class.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that?
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that cut off?
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: 500,000 a year.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, it's just an arbitrary number I'm pulling out of my ass, right?
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But if basically if you're working for a living,
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're working for a living, right, and you're not a trust fund baby, a leisure lad.
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not a leisure lad, you know, you're not drinking unlimited Moscow mules on your yacht on a Wednesday.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing podcasts like this instead on a Wednesday.
8:58
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're working for your income, then you are a part of the working class, right?
9:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for that reason, you should,
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I encourage you to find more solidarity with teachers and nurses and janitors than you do with the the basis and the musks of the world.
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think living here in Orange County, Los agon that that whole blue red stuff is changing more blue, but do you think the community is changing more blue as the years go on because of the younger generation coming up?
9:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the younger generation tends to be more blue.
9:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Viet Rice, right, is a big example of that.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But we also have an influx of immigrants from Vietnam who tend to be more conservative thinking, right?
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, but their version of conservatism is different from maga conservatism.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Their version of conservatism is, well, America's good, because they're giving me liberty and freedom.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And the president who happens to be in power is Republican.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Republican now, right?
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't really given it deep thought, right?
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas American bread, Vietnamese people who are a MAGA, you know, have a lot stronger belief system, right?
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's a mistake to assume that with the younger generation, it's automatically going to be all blue, right?
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, you go to Bolsa Grande High School and, you know, have to have to school as immigrants, right?
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a lot of them are conservative minded,
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I draw this distinction between them and the American bread magazine and these people.
10:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna say this again for the like, hundredth time.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm exaggerating a bit.
10:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I will never stop saying that I welcome.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: all viewpoints on the podcast.
10:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It just happens to be that a lot of my friends, our progressives, and come from a blue background, blue and black background.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am trying to bring more guests that are coming from, but let's talk about how many different backgrounds that are because it's not just conservatives and right wing of MAGA,
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It is Eurasia and non-Eurasia.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I mean by that is a lot of people want to erase the history of South Vietnam.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And they want to implement the new sort of like the new government in Vietnam, the propaganda, if you will.
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's Eurasia and non-Eurasia of the yellow flag with the three stripes and person, the red stripe, but the yellow star, there's that Eurasia and non-Eurasia.
11:38
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a generation of divide.
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a lot going on right now going on yeah, and then there's a political divide are you a Trump or you're not a Trump or but within even the Trump space Are you a Maga or not a Maga, yeah, right?
11:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think even within the progressives we can even say
11:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That, like, us, are you on the Gaza side or are you on the Israeli side or something that you and I talk about?
12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get into a lot with moderate Democrats.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, actually, sometimes I am more angry at moderates than I am at megaphoax, right?
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, here's how I see it.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I think about Trump, right?
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's so easy to say, fuck Trump.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we allowed to customize podcasts?
12:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You are.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's in like we the uh, uh, Gunnai.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: FOOP.
12:27
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But uh, you're saying blessings to Trump.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: FOOP is grace and blessing to Trump.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Gong Na is in Bangalore.
12:36
[SPEAKER_00]: FOOP to Trump.
12:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the same fuck.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But like for me, the analysis of fuck Trump, it's so easy.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Saying fuck Trump is like saying fuck cancer, right?
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like low hanging fruit, right?
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and in that way, people are who are maga.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: intellectually, there are a lot more honest, because they wear their beliefs and their emotions on their sleeves.
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know exactly where they're coming from, right?
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: With moderates, you don't know where they're coming from, right?
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They might stab you in the back, as Tracy Law talked about, right?
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when she was trying to get on the ballot and people were accusing her of being a communist, like fellow Democrats, right?
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a moderate who tried to stab her in the back, right?
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know,
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot that divides us, right?
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like moderate versus left versus maga, right?
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I feel like one way to kind of cut through all the noise that is very helpful for me in terms of framing how I have discussions with people of different political beliefs is to recognize whether I'm talking to a lay person or a person who is in power.
13:46
[SPEAKER_01]: right.
13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm talking to an elected, for example, anyone from Westminster City Council or a mayor, they work for us.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We absolutely have the right to bus their ass and call them out in their bullshit, because they make decisions that affect the rest of us.
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the people we argue with online who are just randoms, right?
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't, their decisions don't affect us.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't take away our health care.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't take away our income.
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't take away our freedom, right?
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like there's less reason to be angry with that crowd, with lay people, right?
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as long as you remind yourself of that, like am I talking to a person in power or am I just talking to someone, you know, a regular person like myself, right?
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you approach the conversation with that mindset, it like really lowers the temperature a lot.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it, does it make sense?
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally make sense.
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually find that,
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I argue with these people online, and I try to do so respectfully, right?
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I found that a lot of these mega folks, whenever they need an attorney, on the D-Lo, they reach out to me, even though they disagree with me, because they know I fucking fight like hell.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: right so they know I'm a fighter right and secondly you know I think they appreciate the way I respectfully disagree with them right and so they go out of their way to hire me and refer their friends and family to me right and they leave me yelp reviews right and then sometimes when I'm talking and then we actually find common ground right like so I know this one guy he's pretty he's like a a Reagan Republican I'm not sure if he's maga but he's definitely a
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we've actually found commonality on, you know, hating on the man, hating on employers, right?
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Hating on employers who busts unions, right?
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a big believer in unions, right?
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Which Ronald Reagan was against.
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a union buster, right?
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So we might not, you know, agree on Medicare for all or immigration or LGBT rights, but there's a lot of common ground when you talk about the man, right?
15:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: any common ground on any universal issue that affects all of us that you notice, like just leaning into that, right?
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's how you guys can bond, right?
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, there's no guarantee, but slowly, but surely they might.
16:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the more you they see you online or on podcast, they might start believing some of the stuff that you believe but without admitting it because of ego right and you know and if someone does kind of defect to your side, you know, it's important to give them grace and avoid that I told you so right you got to give them grace right you got to pretend like they believe that their whole lives right you know so I is.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: the conservative class and the progressive classes, so different in education, education level.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that really say?
16:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's our bring that up.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: My brother and I had this discussion, we have like 30 something cousins in our family.
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: My brother and I are the only two that are progressives on the far, you know, leaning side and the other 30 are Trump, Trumpers.
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're other, we're the ones and we're like the ones that want to college.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only two that were in the US Marines.
17:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So we had this like sort of understanding, but then he said this to me, who's Ken,
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot win, if you don't love your family.
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't go into a dinner, Thanksgiving dinner at that party and think that you're going to convince these people because what they're really about is having a resentment towards you because of your education or background experiences.
17:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what you're saying is like,
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my mom and her age range, all the aunties and uncles, the Medicare and their social security is slashed.
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:05
[SPEAKER_00]: These are people who vote for Trump.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that they, like, realize this happening.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance there.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot, right?
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't want to be resentful.
18:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I want this to be a place where we can have open and the discussion and not have a bunch of progressive, leaning people, leaning this package.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost a lot of followers in the last month, because a lot of people thought that I
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: but that's not the case.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I just happen to have all the guys that are like leaning progressive coming wanting to come on a podcast.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, welcome all of it.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you had vided in on your fun.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.
18:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're about to have Dr. Trinha who is really about the yellow flag in through stripes.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to come on and talk to me about the history and preserving South Vietnam's government history.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, for all you maga conservatives who are pro torture of brown people, I mean, he had the architect of that on his podcast.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I mean, how you didn't wrote the picture?
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can't get more bipartisan and open-minded than that.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, Montfogs.
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it all worked it now, you know, and can this bridging of these communities work?
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think if you say bridging a community, you're putting way too much pressure on your shoulders, right?
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, just bridge the gap between you and a friend, like just one friend at a time or a sibling or a relative, right?
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And each person should do that, right?
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you brought up a really good point.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You said something about, like, you know, your family needs to know that you love them, right?
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, it goes back to the maximum.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really cheesy, but it's universally true.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: People need to know that you care before they care about how much you know, right?
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So say that again.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: People need to know how much you care.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: about them before they care about how much you know, right?
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found that to be true, right?
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And that that's why so many conservatives and Trump conservatives refer clients to me, right?
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, they know that even if their magas fuck, I'm going to fight just as hard for them in court, or in front of a judge or a jury, as much as I would for a progressive or a liberal, right?
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And
20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: My politics comes from a place of caring, not from a place of like, you know, I'm fucking better than you, you know, whole year than now or a place of like, elitism, right?
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you go into it with that mindset, whenever you're about to interact with someone of a different political persuasion, it lowers the temperature a lot.
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally, man.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, whether the other person does the same,
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: to be you have no control over that right so if you know the people who are giving you shit about your podcast won't agree to come on to your podcast and just continue talking shit behind your back that's completely out of your control I mean those people are a lost cause right I mean maybe they need therapy first right because I don't know but yeah the more of this comment yeah you know
21:17
[SPEAKER_00]: the sex is blowing up better for me.
21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I don't ever hate on the people or hate on political positions.
21:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I really welcome all of it.
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I really welcome all the discourse.
21:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do want, and then I do want that the mechanical side of bridging, and I think what you said is that we do have to care.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it has to be an infinite love and care the way Jesus the Christian founder cares about these things and I think that that's what we have to But Jesus then just turned the cheek the whole time, right?
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean he went into the temple and David turned the tables, right?
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He took out a whip and like drove people out of the temple for trashing his father's house, right?
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he crossed the line though.
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You shouldn't have done that, I think that's what we opinion says, the sacrament.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that Jesus was sinless according to theology.
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So that wasn't a sin.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Righteous anger, righteous anger is not a sin, but that's why I think a lot of Christian conservatives can go into battle and to war because you can use that.
22:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You what you just said.
22:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's faith-based anger that translates into weapons and yeah, yeah, but I don't think they they see it that way Could usually the the example of Jesus overturning the the table of the money changers That's usually cited by Progressives whenever a conservative says oh yeah Jesus was not political he was actually a political right it's like well here's a meme of Jesus Rucking shit
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So usually that example was cited by progressives.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So the conservative, I love to do this one-two trick where on the one hand they say, oh, you got to be a political, right?
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But then their political is fuck.
23:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are a lot to be political, but we're not a lot to be political, right?
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like a one-two dance idea all the time.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not aware that I do, yeah, come on these clips and I'm like, oh, I'm not political, but no, I got to change that because I'm getting more into the political space.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, being a political is political right, right, because decision not to be
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also a decision based on extreme privilege, because if you don't need to be political, it's because your privilege is fuck.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: If nothing affects you in terms of the economy, healthcare, then life is pretty fucking great.
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You're sipping high balls in your yacht, right?
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
23:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so funny.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And because we have all this privilege and this political space to talk all this shit,
24:09
[SPEAKER_00]: our community, our communities being divided, like every step of the fucking way.
24:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, man, I just want things to get closer.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want things to be divided.
24:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes I'm just like, again, love to welcome conservatives onto the podcast because I don't feel like this is a conservative, a conservative or liberal space.
24:28
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a, a Vietnamese culture space.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And because you're Vietnamese, you're here.
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been me, she's going to come on like this and you did?
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, the vid didn't, okay, he's just like a paradox, right, because, you know, he benefited from the American dream in many ways, a self-made, right, and
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: his failure.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, he sees a lot of solidarity with his fellow Vietnamese people, right?
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But he doesn't understand intersectionality, right?
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I guess the effect of his actions on people outside of the Vietnamese community, right?
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like, that brings up another topic, right?
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Success.
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Success as like, I have to push back.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You say he doesn't understand and no, I think he
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not important because I have friends within that circle who are like him They understand it.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they're like it's not important money is more important yeah powers more important money and power right is much more important
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: understand the intersectionality.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a good segue, right?
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Because earlier you were talking about a lack of education, I guess, influencing a lot of mega-venomese people, but a big section of mega is also extremely educated.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They know, right?
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But all they care about is power and wealth and controlling people, right?
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: The government can tell you what to do, but it cannot tell me what to do.
26:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't try it on me.
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if you're talking to those people, you know they're educated, they're wealthy, right?
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe powerful.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you can bridge that gap.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel like you agreed to disagree and you kind of walk away, right, because, you know, those people, I feel like our snakes, right, but you, you can, like when you're talking to someone and this is why it's important to talk in person in these spaces, right, because when you're online, you can't detect tone.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: or meaning or set all of it.
26:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything is off, but if you're talking to someone in person, and they're making these points and their eyes are just dead, like zero empathy, you're not going to bruise the gap with them, you can feel the vibe, but you can feel the vibe.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, if they just have a different philosophy from you, but like you can tell that they're really listening, right?
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And they care, but they just can't agree with you, right?
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't burn that bridge, right?
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Stay in their life, right?
27:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If they own a small business, frequent their boba shop.
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Show that you care.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: right, you know, and don't be like, you know, fuck this guy, like everyone.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: This, this boba shop owner is a, is a, is a magic.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because they do that to us, but we shouldn't do it to them.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, that's what Jesus would do.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But it goes back to this thing where if I can tell you my biases and I can be very clear about,
27:41
[SPEAKER_00]: my biases and somebody else on the conservacy I can sit in this chair and be clear about their biases and we can go, you know, I get it.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand why you would feel like you shouldn't be paying certain amounts of taxes.
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And while I think that more social programs deserve our taxes, and if we can just come to that sort of like ability within our community, just like, we see each other, we hear how each other feels, and I can't fight you on that.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't fight you on why you feel like you shouldn't... That's what they believe.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't fight their belief.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's totally fine.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: if we can get to that level.
28:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, community, I think we're gonna be fine.
28:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But then don't call each other a communist.
28:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just on the conversation.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Before he even begins.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what?
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like add a hominema tax.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the N word for Vietnamese people.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is.
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like gone to that point.
28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like honestly, like, you know, like it's as terrible, right?
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and you know, someone starts off the conversation with that.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you can really burst that gap.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can give them grace and say, hey, instead of labeled me with the big sea where we're going to come into my podcast and we have a conversation.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do a second or a third time, yeah, there's no bridging that gap, right?
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you don't want to be a mat for people to walk on, right?
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like a balancing act, right?
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had a few, yeah.
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: content creators make, make post about, you know, my guess and myself in the last few months, put it a few weeks, and I welcome it.
29:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was like, you know, I still my mom, uh,
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's nobody doing that, then you haven't reached that.
29:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's good.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And you got to really celebrate these haters, but at the same time, if I was that kind of like Hassan Pike right, then it would be one thing.
29:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, I'd go hard.
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd lean the part into like, you like,
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not, sell where I'm about.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I really am about like opening up the conversation.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Having biases out in the open, so we can like, understand what our communities about.
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned biases like, if you want, I guess the person on the other side of the aisle to kind of be vulnerable, but they're biases, you know, it's important to acknowledge your own biases.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, you know, I'm obviously a leftist.
30:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a certain belief system, right, and, you know, my biases inform the way I vote.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand that.
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you can extend the other person's grace and say, I can understand why you don't want to pay more in taxes.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what's the ROI we've been getting on our taxes?
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that.
30:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I really do.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And see if they can find commonality there.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But if their whole thing is like,
30:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I don't believe in paying taxes period.
30:50
[SPEAKER_01]: No good ever came out of paying taxes.
30:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't think you can bridge that information on Lee, right?
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But... Or the two eight second amendment fight, right?
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, as a former U.S. Marine, I do believe in guns.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do really believe we have a problem in America.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it goes both ways, right?
31:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I used to be very anti-gun, but you know, in the wake of ice fucking kidnapping citizens and green card holders, right?
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I am, I am in full support
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: you're right to defend yourself with arms against these fucking ice thugs if you need to right if they don't have a warrant they don't have probable cause you're a citizen you know i feel like you know if you're a ccw right you flash that baby seal carry weapon yeah you flash that you flash that baby that ice thugs gonna be gone in a second because they're they're coming at you zip ties
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They have they carry.
31:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: This is such an, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: grew in the first place because leftists beat them to it first because that was the whole purpose of the second amendment to The right to bear arms to defend against an oppressive government, right against the government right and and who who who fights back against an oppressive government more leftist
32:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Leftist were the original gunwilders, right?
32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But then somehow the media made it seem like a conservative thing, right?
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow all these fucking like cucks decided, oh, you know, that girl in my sophomore class like said no to me, so I'm gonna get a gun and shoot the entire fucking school, right?
32:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's been co-opted, yeah.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been co-opted, right, by, you know, beta males and, you know, what's that community
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And Manisfier, exactly.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, that's an example of keeping an open mind.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to be very anti-gun.
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm a little bit more open-minded now, right?
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's worth it to have a small handgun, that if you have kids, you keep a locked away in a safe.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, you should watch the Jim Jeffree's special on gun control.
33:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes a lot of good points.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, but you keep it in a safe and someone breaks in.
33:35
[SPEAKER_01]: What good is the guy?
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like do you need a fucking AR15 to defend yourself?
33:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck not.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck no Like why do you need a fucking AR15 right when a when a handgun will suffice right and like you don't need a fucking shoot everything That moves right like maybe like if they're you know You don't have any upstairs neighbors fire a gun into your ceiling to scare off the person first right because they're there Tip fucking steal your TV.
34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not there to fucking murder you
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know that though.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, come on, but like the paranoid brain would think that.
34:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But most likely there's a 90% chance that just there for your jewelry.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They hear the click of a gun.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They're fucking dipping.
34:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to like just fucking blindly shoot at everything that moves, right?
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a, like your fucking Clint Eastwood in a Western.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, such a complex copy.
34:26
[SPEAKER_00]: When you go back to the history of United States, it's about the spirit of the law, which is oppressive government.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not even in the conversation anymore.
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, how many of these former military guys are holding a lot of weapons?
34:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, it's a fucking scary.
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this is what I think about all time.
34:49
[SPEAKER_00]: All these former military guys will they fight the government like this guy Sean Whalen on on on social media is a big like a I think he's a veteran I think he's part of like you know Is he like a is he the super fitness guy or a fit yeah, oh, yeah, I know you're talking about yeah fitness guy.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll fall leader.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see you guys beta It's all about She'd be a lion.
35:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's his whole thing.
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which
35:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw him go off on the whole Trump thing, like earlier in the year, he was, you know, control Trump, pro maga, and then obviously flip because of the whole Epstein thing, right?
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shit.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: This is dope.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: See, that's an example of common ground right there.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
35:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you guys are both anti-pedophile.
35:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of these former military guys, a lot of them now are saying buck truck because of this obscene shit, they're not letting go, but they all have weapons and then so are they going to flip it and fight the government?
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You know all these military guys special forces all these guys who are like in elite units
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: probably have a common way of thinking that if the government doesn't, you know, do something about the abstinence shit.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this is such a huge thing that why are we letting that go?
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's just something about children where if you, if you, you know, if you violate a child, right, I feel like for both leftists and right wing people, that crosses the line.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why Marjorie Taylor Greene is vehemently anti-Trump now, even though Trump personally groomed her and picked her to be her his right-hand woman in Congress and now she's anti-Trump right?
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And now she's fucking defending Ilhan Omar against Trump's illegal immigration, right?
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you're great to watch, right?
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's another thing, like, something that I feel maybe not moderate liberals because a lot of moderate liberals are very elitist
36:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of a common ground that I feel like a lot of leftists and right-wing people can bond with over is fighting elites.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, they're both very allergic to elites, right?
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole Epstein class, right?
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea that there's a whole class of people that can do whatever the fuck they want to innocent people, like that just crosses a line, right?
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I feel like as much as we talk about polarization, there's actually been a lot of coming together.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: the past couple years, right, especially over Israel, Palestine, right?
37:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I find myself agreeing with a lot of negative Republicans on Israel, right?
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like half of, uh, negative Republicans under the age of 35, actually more than half, uh, I think 80% of negative Republicans under the age of 35 are completely anti-Israel.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: right now you have to ask yourself well it's because of you know they're anti-Semitic or they actually care about Palestinian people right but they're at the very least their anti-Israel and they claim to you know be against the genocide of Palestinians right so there's been a lot of common ground on that right and god and this whole thing anti-Israel anti-Vietnam communist yeah what are we talking about here we talking about yeah
38:15
[SPEAKER_00]: people in Israel.
38:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about people in Vietnam.
38:17
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what we're talking about.
38:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the government and the corporations that back these government.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so simple.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And why can't we as an entire community start to see that it's just really the money that's backing that Yahoo.
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not Israel.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that the people of Israel?
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, voting a man.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would push back against that because the majority of Israel societies is not only pro-genocide, they're post-arvation and pro-partite, right?
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So they'd back, I'd have to back.
38:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, they did a internal poll recently and the question was asked.
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: is the government using enough force in Gaza, and then the second question was, is the government not using enough force, right?
39:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a genocide happening, right?
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: 90% of respondents said that the government is not using enough force, right?
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: 90%.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: 90%.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to, you know, paint a whole pick, you know, put, you know, make a generalization of an entire people, right?
39:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, that was an internal pull of the country.
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
39:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's as crazy, right?
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's what happens when an entire country is founded on colonial, you know, a colonial settler ideology, right?
39:35
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no moral compass, right?
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't, it's very different from America where we have the constitution and the founding fathers, right?
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have that.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Their history was 100% colonialism.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, America was too, but at least we have a constitution to promise to do better in the future, right?
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Some guys would say, colonialism is better than communism.
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You know who you are.
40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just looking at you.
40:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at you, buddy.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're hearing this, we have what's called a new out.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, colonialism is a bad word now, okay?
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not 1940 anymore, okay?
40:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all of it is that.
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything, anytime we're trying to control people and really put so much systems in place to really make sure that people are not having freedom, that's a bad thing.
40:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you bring up a good point because there is, I feel like,
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: There are two kinds of conservatives, right?
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The first kind is conservatives who just have a bad lot in life, right?
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have health care, they're struggling to pay their bills, they're disillusioned with the Democrats.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So they easily fall prey to, you know, straw men like Trump or strong men like Trump.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and the other kind of conservative is people who are better off, but who want to control people, but who truly have a fascist ideology.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so when you're talking to someone, you need to see what camp they're in, right?
41:11
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're in the former camp, it's worth not burning the bridge, it's worth finding commonality, right?
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Because those are the kind of Trumpers to where if you ask them about Bernie Sanders, they'll actually have respectful things to say about burning.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, they'll say, well, I don't know if I can vote for Bernie, but yeah, I have respect for that guy.
41:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have a lot of respect for him overlapped that I don't know that I fuck with right right.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, and, and, and I think that's an example of how to reach out to people right.
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: How Bernie talks to people right.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He, he doesn't, uh, you know, thumb his nose at coming on Joe Rogan.
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like Kamala Harris, like, oh, yeah.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Todd Caster, that's beneath me, right?
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: She just said, fuck you to the millions of people who listen to Joe Rogan, right?
41:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That she's better than them.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That she's wholly or than now, right?
41:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is something that I think I lost completely, respect for Kamala Harris after that.
42:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You lost the fucking, you lost America.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a golden opportunity.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't matter.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a dumb, dumb, dumb.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But, but, I think,
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: the other side of the Vietnamese community, which is the conservatives and the right is doing the same thing about not coming on my podcast.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is like, wait a minute.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm opening up the doors and I'm not here to attack or debate.
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even here to debate.
42:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to debate you, I want to just hue you and I want to platform you.
42:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people on the left are like, why are you platforming conservatives?
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is the Vietnamese podcast.
42:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the liberal Vietnamese podcast.
42:44
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not the conservative.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just the Vietnamese podcast.
42:47
[SPEAKER_00]: The Vietnamese podcast.
42:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to hear it all.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And you won't know what side I take.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very open about my biases.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, these people you're are inviting on the podcast, they're just everyday people like me and you, that care about their families, that's trying to take care of their kids, their spouses.
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They contribute to their community.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They're philanthropists.
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and they're not people in power, right?
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more in, we share more in common with them than we do with, you know, the Elon Musk or the Trumps or the Kamala's of the world, right?
43:21
[SPEAKER_00]: To today, my big takeaway talking, and I didn't really realize this about you, but.
43:26
[SPEAKER_00]: My big takeaway today really is how open you are to the other side and how you have these like mechanical technical ways of bridging.
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, soft tools that I think that's so important.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not so much mechanical.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a mental framework, right?
43:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I think once you identify that, you know, the person on the other side of the aisle that you're talking to, doesn't have, you know, isn't trying to fucking report you to ICE.
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: have disagreements with you, right?
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're not in a position of power, right?
44:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And perhaps, you know, they had traumatic upbringing, right?
44:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It just lowers the temperature a lot.
44:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't even have to think about it like consciously, like, okay, how do I need a word, the next thing I say?
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But once, but once you have the right potential framework, it just kind of takes care of itself and everything becomes easier.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: right just putting yourself in the right mindset before you you know you fire off your next comment on Instagram or on Facebook or whatever right go drop it off okay okay how many more minutes we have 45 minutes okay we're up in a minute I can go all day okay and then you meet over there yeah usually turn off the cameras and I will yeah okay all right thanks now
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But what time is it right now?
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a 1025.
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 1035, 1045, 1035, another 10 more minutes.
45:06
[SPEAKER_00]: What can we really do about, I keep people dying.
45:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I think about the end Gaza.
45:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, we're sitting here,
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think about this daily when I'm having a good day.
45:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't bring me down.
45:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, how is it that in 1975, 1974, 1974, in 1973, these people were dying in Vietnam.
45:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We got all this war going on.
45:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got people party.
45:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now, hey, I'm partying in New York.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: My people were just partying when, like, the other side of the world, our families were suffering.
45:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But whatever reason, like, we can't, we don't need to get them that way.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a huge disconnect, right?
45:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We're, it's so weird to think about.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about that daily when I'm like, I got a party and I'm having the best home of my life.
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm enjoying myself and I look out and I'm like, but on the other side, there's like, kids and women and men, to cap their arms and legs, be,
46:08
[SPEAKER_01]: How is this possible?
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this because you and I are very conscious people.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We care more about things than just making money and having a good time.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, a part of being happy is making sure that that doesn't happen in the other side of the world.
46:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How can you, I know that you're a very active activist, you march, you protest, but how
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, electorally, not much because both sides of both houses of Congress and the presidency and arguably the Supreme Court is bought and paid for by the pro-Israel lobby, right?
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't mean you should stop, right?
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's also boycotts, right?
46:57
[SPEAKER_01]: South Africa used to be an apartheid racist society, by the way, which was supported
47:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Vietnam supported right and the and Vietnam did so by cutting all economic ties with South Africa right and then pretty soon basically every country in the UN except for the United States and Israel cut off economic ties and and economic sanction South Africa and they they were on the brink of I guess whatever the the term is for economic collapse
47:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the bankruptcy of an entire country before they said, oh, maybe this apartheid thing isn't such a good idea.
47:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one thing you can do.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have, uh, how did the United States and Israel not backed up?
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Because our economy is propped up by imperialism and colonialism.
47:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
47:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's woven into the fabric of our politics and our economy, right?
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But you and I, we can't do much about it, electorally, but you know, we can do a lot with our purchasing power, right?
48:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have the no thanks app.
48:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So note thanks, you can download it, you know, and basically it has a barcode scanner where you can, you know, scan anything at the grocery store, and if it's like a big red, like a stop sign, you don't buy, right, and back in 2024, when I was scanning that stuff, everything at the grocery store, man, I was fucking depressed man, everything linked back to Israel.
48:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, where the company either invested in Israel or supported Israel, right, or had headquarters in Israel.
48:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what the fuck, why does the California produce company have a headquarters in Israel?
48:43
[SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck is doing?
48:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so it was really a direct, and it took me like an hour to buy two things of the grocery store.
48:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but fast forward to last week.
48:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm scanning shit.
48:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like everything is a green flag now.
48:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Green flag, no more red flags.
49:01
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe I'm not right so that's the power right and now Israel's economy is completely gone down the shithole it's 100% reliant on the military now right like if they don't continue their genocide or their military occupation there are economy completely go down the toilet say if they continue
49:20
[SPEAKER_01]: If they do not, no, their economy is propped up by their military and in the military industrial complex, right?
49:27
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're not constantly at war, their economy will go down the shill home.
49:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one thing.
49:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is donate to organizations like the Palestine Children's Relief Fund, or a Hill Palestine, right?
49:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously can't save Palestine as a whole country, like you can't put that pressure in yourself, right?
49:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can save individual people.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't need to save the children, the Palestine children's relief fund, heal Palestine.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're providing much-needed food, nutritional existence, assistance, medical aid, and even financial assistance to Gaza and families to get the fuck out of Gaza.
50:05
[SPEAKER_01]: right, and to immigrate to Europe, right, ironically to America, the country that's actively fucking bombing and killing them and starving them, right?
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, that's a real concrete way you can have, a way you can help, right?
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But, electorally, vote for progressives, up and down the ticket, right?
50:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you know, if the choices between a moderate who supports Israel, like Derrick Tran, and Chewing Vote, you
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: don't leave that blank, you vote for Derek Tran, get him in office, and then go to every one of his town halls and pressure the fuck out of him, right?
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And just make sure that progressives have a voice in Congress, right?
50:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But on an individual level, boycott and donate, right?
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll sleep much better at night, right?
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it feels good to be able to tell yourself, I did that shit before it was popular to do so.
50:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?
50:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I hear all of that.
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for that.
51:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to ask you, this is a fair question.
51:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going to start asking everybody who is on the progressive side.
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were to nominate three to five people that are on the other side and who would be just as good a guess as you, who would you nominate?
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: to come on the podcast and invite, right?
51:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to balance this out.
51:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like the seventh progressive that I've had.
51:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know why this is turning all political, but you know, I get back to my academic and then.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, so I would nominate everyday people, right?
51:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So not a politician, not a Titan of industry, right?
51:42
[SPEAKER_01]: SEO, or, you know, I would bring everyday people on the podcast.
51:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't really, you know, if you watch all the talk shows, you know, Jimmy Fallon, the tonight's show, one was the last time they had like a regular person of the street on a talk show.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all celebrity worship, right?
51:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We need a fucking stop worshiping celebrities because they I've asked people to come on.
52:02
[SPEAKER_01]: right, but service won't come on.
52:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have the right mindset.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You absolutely have the right mind.
52:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not your fault.
52:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They're saying no.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's their fault.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's 100% on them, right?
52:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So, stop putting these rich and powerful people on a pedestal and talk to real-life people, right?
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first thing, right?
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I don't want to name any names, right, because, you know, a defamation and a lot of stuff.
52:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, there's, there's three to five people in my life that are on the opposite side of the aisle that, you know, if I had your podcast, I'd be happy to invite them on, right?
52:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,
52:40
[SPEAKER_01]: because I think that there's real problems with, but let's say I didn't have a problem with platforming people in power, right?
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have, you know, if Marjoria Taylor Green paid attention to, the Vietnamese podcast, I'd play have her on, right?
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: For Israel, Palestine, right?
52:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,
52:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still kind of problematic because if her views on white supremacy and immigration and the second amendment and abortion rights, right, you'd have to have a disclaimer at the beginning where you're honest with her and say, first of all, I differ from you politically on so many issues, but where we agree is on X, right.
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Gal and I, yeah, his party, when he was running for Senate, I asked him to come on.
53:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, and I would love to have him come on to talk about, you know, that who did mask controversy that that I covered on the clip.
53:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I want to hear his thoughts and if you think if he thinks it's funny and I don't think it's funny and we can just agree to disagree.
53:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so be it.
53:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I had to have him on and if you were like, why are you platforming him?
53:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he's done a big he's done a joke.
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean.
53:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's arguable, like, you know, the merits and why he's gotten there and other big guys and military, like Admiral Wooden, you know, is on, you know, as the Secretary of the Navy, because, you know, there's, there's guys that have done much bigger accomplishments than home gal.
54:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
54:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk to all the conservatives that come on.
54:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to, I don't know how much time we have, but I want to share a personal anecdote of the importance of not burning bridges.
54:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
54:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So in around, I would say between 2013 and 2022, me and Sophie lived in a community, right?
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to name the community because people are going to be able to connect the dots.
54:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were friends with the landlord because in addition to renting from him, we also, I also rented commercial office space from him for my law firm, right?
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge magga guy, right?
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't stand him because, you know, and that was also a young me where I was like just ready to fucking fight, you know, a very trigger-happy, hair-thin trigger, right?
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got into this blowout about rent control.
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He's very anti rent control and I'm just like let's just call him John.
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to use this random like John like, but there's so many people who are suffering from, you know, not being able to pay their rent.
55:09
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, yeah, but, you know, how am I going to stay in the business, right?
55:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just like, I'm like, bro, rank control is not saying is not about saying how much you're allowed to charge.
55:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about capping how much you're allowed to increase, right?
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It caps it at 5%.
55:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, a year above and that's above inflation, too.
55:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how is that a not enough for you 5% above inflation?
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's profitable.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So wait, and so let me clear that out.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you can say if inflation this year was 4% I can add another 5% Yeah, so that was it.
55:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the percent.
55:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the existing rent control policy back then that he was against, right?
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, do fuck this guy, right?
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had this blowout, right?
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like yelling at each other, right?
55:49
[SPEAKER_01]: In his corporate office, and all his employees were mortified.
55:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what the fuck are Brian and John Dewey, right?
55:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And the middle of the Tuesday during business hours, right?
55:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then,
55:59
[SPEAKER_01]: During the next that was in 2015 during the next six years right as if to prove a point you know what he did He didn't raise our rent at all.
56:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't raise my my personal rent.
56:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't raise my officer in as To say fuck you Brian.
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to rent control to prove that I'm a good guy
56:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he was very magnanimous about not gouge, and then I talked to my neighbors.
56:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Oh, did John raise your rent?
56:24
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so he wasn't just playing favorites with me.
56:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was ideologically anti-wren control and presumably pro-business anti-wrenter.
56:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But on a personal level, he was with his actual policies.
56:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very pro-wrenter.
56:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so I saw another side of the man.
56:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, dude, like, I don't know.
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why the fuck you have those beliefs, because in actual practice, you don't rent gouge.
56:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And whenever someone has a leak in the kitchen, you fix that shit right away.
56:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're not letting people breathe mold.
56:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You fix that shit right away.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like you're a good guy.
57:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a good guy, right?
57:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't know if this is the end of the show, but that's the anecdote I want to close with with of the importance with building bridges with everyday people, even if they're on the opposite side of the aisle as you politically.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can change our society.
57:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can change our community.
57:18
[SPEAKER_01]: One little, but yeah, one relationship at a time.
57:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, don't put that pressure on yourself.
57:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how can we bridge the gap with the Vietnamese community writ large, right?
57:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just that's way too big of a responsibility, right?
57:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so but one person in time totally do a one person.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm one person at a time I think that that's a good mantra and it you know, it it lessons the burden in the load But you know when I'm when you're existing in a space where it's very public and you see the comments and it's just like yeah And that can the gut over and over and over right?
57:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm like
57:50
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were kicking me in the gut and it made sense and it was like, oh, like, real.
57:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Then yeah, so, you know, but a lot of this stuff is like, you know, let's, let's talk about and I don't even know what I'm fighting for a lot of times anymore, right?
58:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz things are changing.
58:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So come on and let's talk about these things.
58:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's yeah.
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Open things up and yeah, we did today.
58:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, I think for all you conservatives out there, whether you're a
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on to the show.
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a nice guy, you know, he won't bite unless that's what you're into.
58:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you too.
58:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me out.
58:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
58:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynn.
58:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynn, Katherine Wynn, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Trin.
58:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Please fire us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.