Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / TCWT Live! S5 E13 – A Trusted Dentist Turned Serial Killer_ Glennon Engleman

Transcript

TCWT Live! S5 E13 – A Trusted Dentist Turned Serial Killer_ Glennon Engleman · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, Happy Thursday. I think it's Thursday. It's been
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a week already. Okay, if you're not watching Couch Court
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: with Lama, you're not doing something right because you need
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to go over there and you need to watch the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: insanity that is going on over there. So I am
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Terry True Crime and tonight I have a special guest
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: co host. If you watch The Zizians, you will recognize
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: this beautiful woman. Here is Captain.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Hello. Everyone. You might remember me from the Zizzians, from
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Chat making bad jokes.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Or from Discords to Say or for Discord, and your
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: jokes are not bad. Your jokes are amazing.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Human and very quality. Yeah.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: So, because I always forget this, please like and subscribe
• 1:10
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• 1:13
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• 1:19
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• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you last night our members only was a little off
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the hook, okay it And if you join and become
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a member, now you can go back and watch all
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: of the insanities. And we're going to start doing more
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: members only thing, so you need to be prepared for that.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And then if you really want to get crazy, you
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: can head to the Blend of Seven Winery in Marion, Ohio,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: on July nineteenth for a live show hosted by your
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: truly Tary True Crime and our Lovely Lama. Tickets are
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: on sete now. So let me tell you. It is
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a small venue. I want to say, it's like forty
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: seats or something. It is indoor, air conditioned. The cheapest
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: ticket price is like seven dollars and fifty cents. Does
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: not include a glass of wine. But it goes up
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: from there, but you get all kind of fun stuff.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But you can come. See. I just got the notification
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that we have severe storms coming and they have issued
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: a severe thunderstorm notification. It's not supposed to arrive till nine,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: so I shouldn't blow away in front of you guys.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: If I do, Captain, we'll take care of you guys,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and Amy and background will make sure it all works, okay, Capin,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you're good with.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: That, Yeah, it'll It'll happen the way it happens.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So, guys, it's going to be a blast in Ohio. Amy,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: our sister producer and her better half are going to
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: be there. Mama Lama's gonna be there. Elbow, my feet myself,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and then we have other people that we don't know
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: who've bought tickets. So we're going to get to meet
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: some new friends. I mean, I met some great people
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: at the one that we did in Austin, and I
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: have to tell you, I'm horrible. I couldn't tell you
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: their names, but I can tell you where each one
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of them lives and how they found out about us.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So I don't know what that says about me.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: You're good with an internet survey.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I am. I am. Now we are going to talk
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: about what we're drinking, and I'm gonna let you go first, Captain,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: because Captain, because I am kind of jealous. Oh wowout
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: what you're drinking.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: You should be, because tonight I'm drinking a very very
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: fancy wine. I'm not sure if you've all heard of it.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: It's called boons Very Farm.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the boone Bury Hill is great farm rubbery hill.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Uh. This is the first time I've had it since
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: freshman year of college. So we meet again old front
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: of me and it is going to pop up in
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the story later. So I went with a theme beverage.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, girl, I used to love me some boons
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Farm Strawberry hell. I remember it was a dollar ninety nine.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: So on my broke ass budget, I could buy two bottles. Okay,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I would drink them. I'll tell you. I have some
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: great memories drinking it, but I also have some not
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: so great memories and some mistakes I made drinking it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I have a not so great bey of it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: But I also like their tickle pink. If you haven't
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: tried the tickle pink, it's really good to do. Maybe
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I'll get and take to Ohio because I our wonderful
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: assistant producer, Amy is working on finding us an Airbnb
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: so for those of us on our team, we can
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: all stay in one place but have our own beds. Sorry,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not sleeping with elbow, feet and lama. Okay a
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: llama and feet and elbows just not my thing.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: That is the Airbnb cat friendly Amy.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I guess it could be just burn it in, put
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: in the request, just put in the request. Well tonight,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I am drinking something, and now I've been told that
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I have to be careful with the name because it
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: means something now that I didn't know it meant. So
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: it is a lost hog seven Young Blanc and it
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: is from California and it has the cutest little pink
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: hog picture on it in a nice background, and I
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: thought it was so cute, and hog means more than
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: just motorcycles, and I'm gonna leave it at that, but
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it does say because I open it, it elicit flavors
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of golden apple, pear, apricot, and honeycomb.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, illicit flavors indeed.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: And then I am going to just go on and
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: say this because as of this time, right now, it
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: is still legal in Texas. I also took half of
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: a mushroom THHC gummy, So I have given Amy permission
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to mute my mic if I go off the rails,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: because we need no bean flicking, we need no pineapples,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: none of that. Okay, See I'm already making Amy laugh
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: in the background.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I'm too new to this game, Terry. You gotta hold on.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Hey, it is all assistant producer. That doesn't let me
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: just say it is all harr It is all hard.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, Kapin, I love your
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: eyeshadow and I love your glittery part in the center.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And one day you're gonna tell me how you do
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that and not get it in your eyes because every
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: time I go to try to put the little sparkles
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: right there, I get the sparkles in my eye.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just a product. It's a color
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: pop glitterally obsessed is the type of glitter. And then
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: they have a bunch of different ones in that. So
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: of course I pin it's a gel.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: It's a gel because I bought I guess I bought
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: elf something and it's like that, and it's got a
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: little brush and I stick that brush in my eye
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: every time. Okay, I already do not like the first
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: photo that I see. Well, okay, caappen, let's just get
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: at this party started.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, tonight's gonna be creepy on multiple levels because
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: not only is our story about a serial killer, he's
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: a dentist. If you read the title, I personally hate
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: going to the dentist. I understand the value of dentists,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: but why you want to be looking in my mouth
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: for a living? And I have another interest in this case,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: but we're going to get there soon enough to be
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: mysterious about that.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I despise going to the dentist. Okay, I just do.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: But murder fascinates me so I'm excited to learn more,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to also say it quickly turned into
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a nightmare for me because double H gets on me
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: because he gets his teeth cleaned twice a year. Guys.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: For me to go get my teeth cleaned, it requires
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: examax in the gas they give you. I don't like
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: people in my mouth.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: No, no, but I mean getting it cleaned twice a year.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: That usually means like less pressure on you. That's the yet,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: as long as they get professional upkeep.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So what happened and this is a horrible story.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: When I was pregnant with my first kid, I could
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: not have anesthesia at the dentist because I was high risk.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: They took out my wisdom teeth with nothing but local light,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: a cane shot and it was impacted. It was wrapped around.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: My mother and my husband at the time helped me
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: down and ever since then, I don't like dentists. I
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: would never date a dentist either. Would you date a dentist?
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: No? No, That's what I'm saying. I don't. It's like
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I got it and I know it's a luretive career,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: but the desire to be in somebody else's mouth all
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Either be dating or married to a guy.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Naw, yeah, definitely, I mean I.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Would, and I'm going to just tonight. Is not going
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: to help me any with my phobia. Yes, I need
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: nitrous sucks cleaning and this, don't forget the xamax. Okay, okay, so, guys,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: denti phobia it's a real thing, guys, is a term
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: used to describe a fear of dread of visiting the
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: dentist or receiving dental treatments. Now this fear, Oh my god,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: that just triggered me. Thank you so much, oopulous aby.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Oh now it's triggered, as we all know phobias by
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: various factors, including past traumatic experience, the fear of pain,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: or anxiety about being judged for poor choral oral hygiene.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: And guys, that is not my problem. I don't care
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: if they judged me. I don't like the sounds. I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: don't like the smells. I don't like any of it. Okay,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I don't like any of it.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Now. Individuals with dentophobia often experience intense anxiety, heartbeat, and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: a strong desire to avoid dental appointments. That's me, that's me.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Me too, and this can in turn affect their all
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: health and over all well being. So I'm going to
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: just tell you my solution. Brush your teeth twice a day,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: use the water pick, keep your teeth clean, and you
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: don't have to go as often.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's that's the trade off. Every six months,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: you don't have to do as much up keep yourself much.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so unfortunately, it sounds like we both have
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: denttophobia already, and after we hear tonight's story, we may
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: have a new reason to not want to go to
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the dentist. This is one of those stories that's going
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: to make you ask, do you ever really know somebody.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Lighty and gray? You don't have to use flaws. If
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you get the water pick, water thing that sprays between
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: your teeth, it's like the waters, then you don't have
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to stick that stuff between your teeth. Okay, listen to
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: podcasting music. Okay. I want someone to go to the dentist,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and I want them to play this episode while they're
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: at the dentists without earplugs and see what the dentist thinks.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: What do you think it'd be interested? I think maybe
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: you would stop them from asking you questions When you
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: can't respond to them.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Why do they think? Okay, we're not going to go
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: there now every time. Tonight, we're going to talk about
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Glennon Edward Engelman, a deceptively somewhat normal looking man who
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: had an unusual talent for convincing women to marry other
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: men for their money. And guys, guess what many of
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: his accomplices and victims were his patients. Now, guys. I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: used to have a friend who used to say, if
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: you're going to get married, you should marry someone for
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: money before love. And I can say I do not
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: agree with her, and that's probably one of the reasons
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I ended our friendship after a decade. And I hope
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: she doesn't marry a dentist. But before we get into
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: as many crimes, let's take a look at Glynn before
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: he began drilling and killing. Okay, I'm sorry, I almost
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: would prefer to talk about the necrophiliacs. I'm just gonna say.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Lama wasn't available this week. There's no one to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: do a necrophiliac role play with you.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean I would rather that than this.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So Ingleman was born December sixth, nineteen twenty seven in
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Missouri. Now it is apparently the city of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: a thousands sites. Okay, I don't I don't get that
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: whole thing, but it's okay because who knew that. Now,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: his father was a rail railroad worker and a US
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Army Air Corps veteran. Now, his mother was a homemaker.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: He was the youngest of four, so let me tell
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you this, mama had her hands full.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: They lived in a working class neighborhood in south Saint Louis,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and Glenn was described as a middling student, so that
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: means he didn't excel at anything in particular, and eventually
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: followed in his father's footsteps and joined the Air Corps.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Now I have a question about the Air Corps. You
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: have military background, right, are you not?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I'm in a military family.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Family, Okay, I new. I thought there was what is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the Air Corps?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: So before there was the Air Force, there was the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Army Air Corps. And I don't remember the year that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: the Air Force was formed, but it just fell under
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the Army.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I was going to go and give it a goog
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I bet Captain will be
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: able to educate.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Me I mean, I don't have all the all the details.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But if I don't know, how much you can see
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: in my background. But there my father flew for the Navy,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: so everyone's got a little bit of the Navy going on.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: The Navy flies. I thought they were boats.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he flew off of boats like they have Air
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Force characters in the.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Ocean Force landed on Okay.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: See guys, Oh, it's aviators.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So I did not know that. Yeah, I always see.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I don't have I didn't. My dad was in the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: post guard.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I think I think you can see. I can't fell
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: for my Oh. Also, are things backwards? I don't. I
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: don't know. Sometimes things are backwards. I always thought there's
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: an airplane poster behind me. Okay.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I always thought that the Navy meant they only did boats.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: That's okay, Well, they do boats with planes on them sometimes.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: So he joined us bother and he joined the Air Corps,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and now we know what that is, we know, greg.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Eventually he left. My dad worked on top gun.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: But that wasn't the Navy, was it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was navy. He it was an aircraft carrier.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: MAV Oh, my god, my god, is.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: An accountant for the Navy and also had an aircraft
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: carrier under his command, so they he was doing the
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: finances for Top Gun.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, if anybody wants to recommend I watched Top Gun
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: or Maverick, I will say yes, and I will watch
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: those tonight.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Or you could watch War Stars. God no, that has
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: flying in it.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: M okay, yeah, let's do that. You know what, come
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to Ohio and maybe we can all watch it together.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Bring me your gummies.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, I will bring a lot. They possibly tonight at midnight.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: It's today or tomorrow day? Or talk that our governor
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: is going to totally ban it.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, well we're all in different states. We'll
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: figure it out.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: We'll figure it out.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: So back to dentist Glenn Engleman. Eventually he did leave
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: the military, and thanks to the GI Bill, he got
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: a degree in dentistry from Washington University in Saint Louis. Now,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: if anyone is curious who else went to wash you,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: it would be this girl right here. He graduated in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four, though, so we didn't run into each
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: other at the Bearsden or wild.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: He's not your dad, is he.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: My dad?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Wow? Okay? But if your dad, I mean, what year
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: was your dad born.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not doxing my dad.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Like that, Okay, I was just thinking, I mean, that's.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: My dad graduated after Glenn Ingleman, I'll tell you that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Oh okay then yeah, yeah, then we're all good then.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: At Annapolis Okay. Yeah. So Engleman did not choose dentistry
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: as a vocation out of a compassion or even a
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: passion for the work, because, as I've said before, who
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: has that passion. He chose it out of pragmatism and
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: a desire to have a steady income and a prestigious profession.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: He took his fresh d dass right back to his
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: childhood neighborhood, Bevau Mill, where he opened a practice proudly
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: serving the community.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Oh look at that building. That is a cool building.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Right that is that was a beer garden owned by
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Anheuser Bush that I never went to and I wish
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I had. Well.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I like that It's called Bevo Meal Mill because Bevo
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: is the name of University of Texas. Longhorn mascot is Beva.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I was not aware of that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: See every now and then, no, no something. Now, His
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: neighbors considered him to be one of them and guys.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: He often provided dental help when they couldn't afford his
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: professional services. I mean that's as like a great guy, right,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I mean he did fillings, extractions, cleaned out abcesses, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: basic cleaning for his friends and neighbors who didn't have
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: regular dental care. I mean that that's pretty nice.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is nice.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And he provided financial and other aid to his neighbors
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: with food gifts, and provided coats and jackets to the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: neighborhood children who didn't have one of their own and guys.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: He was also known for throwing neighborhood block parties on
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: holidays and weekends.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And when I was there, that was the kind of
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: thing that Nelly was doing, except with a lot less
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of a dental focus.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's when I was in Sail Louis.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not in this video, though.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Isaac, say, where are you in the video? Where are
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: you in the video?
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I've never looked that good in gold hop pants now.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: He also hired the youth of the area to work
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for him, including young ladies that were trained as hygienist,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: and he had trained them. They'd worked for him for
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: a while, and then he wouldn't find employment for them
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: in other dental offices, can catch a release program for
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: local ladies and guys. Surely there's nothing your regular or
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: odd about.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: This, right, sounds totally normal. All of this did make
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: quite an impression on the neighbors. Obviously, they were impressed
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: that he had decided to live and practice in his childhood,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: working class neighborhood rather than practice in a fancy part
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: of town. He was a local boy who done good,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and he helped his unfortunate his more unfortunate neighbors. However,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: all of this giving resulted in financial problems for his
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: practice and in his personal life, but a neighborhood full
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: of needy, grateful people also provided him with a pool
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of easy to manipulate targets.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: That place looks so cool and I want to go there,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to have to add that to my list.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, this episode, I feel like I should be
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: getting paid by the Saint Louis Tourism. But we'll get there.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I just got told that I should not be
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: on the Texas Tourist board because when I told Mama
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: about the snakes and the coyotes and the birds that
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: fly down, she was like, yeah, why don't you just
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: go work for the tourism department, Terry.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, don't lead with the snakes.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Don't lead with the snakes. Now. Engleman was known to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: be attractive to women. I mean, everybody has their own type, okay,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and despite his round face, I mean, I guess said
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: there is somebody for everybody right now. At some point
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: he began to use his ease with women to manipulate
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: them with his charm, sex appeal, and his perceived wealth. Now,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: he reportedly had a hypnotic way with women, and he
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: would use his sexual pasthur over women to co worce
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: them into his murder schemes. Are we sure he wasn't
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: drugging them? I just don't know how much sexual power
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I feel from this guy.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: No, this, this is the only I mean, there are
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: very few pictures of him that are even acceptable for
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: the Stagelu story.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm gonna say Kelly P. He ain't
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: no Alan Jackson. And I'm not talking about the country
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: singer guys. Okay, I am talking about mister Kelly P.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And then I am his mistress.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think now, Q doll, if anyone remembers those.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, my god, he does, Oh my god. Okay. Now,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Engleman's first murder involved his first wife, Edna Ruth Bell
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: now Belle, was a student teacher who had married Engelman
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three at the age of nineteen. He
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: was twenty six at the time. Guys, when I first
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: saw that, I started counting. I'm like, Okay, that's not
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that weird.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, let her go.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: But she looks like, you know, just the plane. You know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: she just looks like the women of the times. Yeah,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I guess. Now she got smart and they were divorced
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: after less than three years, but Ingleman continued to support
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Edna financially and gave her dental care and continued having
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: sex with her for years. Oh lucky, Edna, what a privilege.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I just got another weather alert.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. Neither of them stayed single for long. Edmund married
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: or Engleman married Edda g Van Hest in nineteen fifty six,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: and Edna Ruth married a man named James Bullock in
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight. But we know who she was so
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: out of sex with. Now. Booke was a twenty seven
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: year old clerk for a Union Electric Company of Missouri
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and a part time accounting student and surprise, guys, are
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you ready? He was a patient of Engelman after less
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: than six months of marriage. On December seventeenth, nineteen fifty eight,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Bullock was shot dead in Forest Park outside of the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis Art Museum.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, before we continue, though, we have to address
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Saint Louis. This is a this is a Chappelle Hill moment.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: It's Saint Louis, isn't it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: It's Saint Louis. Oh, it is Saint Louis. I mean,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: if you're Judy Garland, you can get away with Saint Louis. Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I always thought it was Saint Louis.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: No, I'm Saint Louis.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: It's not Saint Louis.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're Frone, Saint.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Louis, Saint Louis, how to do Saint Louis?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: You did perfect?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Okay? And that is a beautiful art museum.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I spent a lot of time at that
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: art museum.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: On the statue the person riding a horse, that's Saint Louis. Okay,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: So Saint Louis is real. I'm like the Three Musketeers.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean he's a Saint. I don't know, but
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: he's real, right, he's based I assume he's based on
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a real person. How's that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: The stories are real, and I don't know the stories
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: to be honest. Okay, But like I said, I'm obsessed
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: with this art museum. Every time I go to Saint Louis,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I go to this art museum. It is in Forest Park.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: For those unfamiliar with Saint Louis, Forest Park is where
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the World's Fair was in nineteen oh four, which is
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: meet me in Saint Louis. Right, it's huge.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: It has the gold or not the Golden Arch, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it has the big arch.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Right, it does have the arch. The arch was not
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: around yet. Arch is from the sixties, making sure, But
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: don't worry. The arch is going to show up. But
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: while we're talking about Forest Park, it is huge, it's gorgeous.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: It's filled with historic buildings from the World's Fair that
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: have been repurposed into museums. A lot of them are free.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: There's a free, awesome zoo where you can see. It's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: free that adorable baby elephant named jet Oh. So it's
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: This park is also across the street from Washington University.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So Engleman knew it well, I knew it well. Also
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: enjoy that elephant while you can, because there's going to
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: be a lot of cute in this story and not
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of relationships that's functional.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: If I could own any animal in the world I wanted,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: it would be an elephant.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Well. I did spend some time watching videos of jet
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: this week. I want it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Really hard money to go work. If you pay three
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars, you can go to Africa and volunteer for
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: fourteen days with the elephant refugee place, and you get
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: to bathe them and help with all the babies, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes they have to be bottle fed. Then that just
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like keaven. But you have to sleep outside and
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you just got to make sure the tigers and lions
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: don't eat you. But other than that, it's great.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: See I would I would want to hang out with
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: the tigers and lions more.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: They'll eat you.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I have the big cats. They're just like cats, but
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: big and my cat would totally kill me if she could,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: probably probably.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have to worry about the elephants sitting
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: on you. I hear.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: They don't know, they don't know.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So book was shot in the park and guys. Edna
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Ruth collected sixty four thousand dollars in life insurance from
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: several different policies. Guys, that's equivalent to about seven hundred
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and eight thousand dollars today. That's a lot of money. Now,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: she invested twenty thousand of her new fortune into Engelman's
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: new business. Now, remind you they are divorced people. I mean,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but my ex husband's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even get child support less. That's okay.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Now, did you try entering a murder scheme with him?
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I should have done.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I think that's what you missed it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but now she invested twenty thousand of her new
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: fortune into his new business. Okay. His new business was
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the Pacific Dragstrip. I mean, let's you know, yeah, so we're.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: This grap's going to get more interesting. We're going to track.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's everyone's monetary gains here.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look at that.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Look now.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Now this caught the intention of investigators, but Engelman was
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: able to provide an alibi.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: They also looked into Ruth, noting that she had lied
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: on her marriage license application, denying haven't been previously married. Guys,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: they used to ask if you had been married before.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, I mean they ask you some weird questions.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: From what I hear, I mean back then, I think
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: you had to do like blood tests and stuff to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: get married.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you yeah.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now as they looked at her closer, she found
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that her exploits and local bars were reportedly legendary, but
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: they stopped looking into Edna Ruth after getting bad press
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: for harsh treatment of a griefing widow clutch My pearls Now.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Both Edna Ruth and Engelman denied involvement in the murder
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: at the time, and guys, no one was ever charged
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: with Bullocks killing.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So at this point, Engelman is married to Ida, and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: he got all the money from Edna, which is one
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: letter off from DA.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Makes it easier when you holler out something, right.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I guess, doesn't make it easier for us. But so
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: he got all this money to put into his new business,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: the Pacific Dragstrip, which was a half mile drag racing
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: strip south of Pacific, Missouri, just west of Saint Louis.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: That's where around where Six Flags is now. Strangely enough,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the strip was built about an eighth of a mile
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: from a secret anti aircraft missile base. It was supposed
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to be a secret, but obviously the drag racing crowd
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: knew and the secret was out. I also never really
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: thought that building half a mile line of pavement in
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere was like a business venture. But
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I guess these were simpler times.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I will tell you. When I first read that,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, what what I mean? I was like, wow,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I am so out of the loop.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Now I had to look up what it was. And
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: then now it's just like a normal street in a neighborhood,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: like a small street in a neighborhood.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, Okay, Sammy Sunshine mentioned the lip necklace. Guys,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: there's teeth on it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: It's my grill, that's her grill, Brianstone teeth. I got
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: it a goodwill.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just make sure you don't go and let the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: dentists work on them.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'd rather the dnists work on that. So what's
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: actually going on now.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: One of the men building the drag strip was Eric Fray,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: who also just happened to be married to one of
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Engelman's ex girlfriends, Sandy Fray. Now. Six weeks after opening
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: the drag strip, on September twenty sixth, nineteen sixty three,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Eric Fray was found dead in the bottom of a
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: well on the track property with a large amount of
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: dynamite because one falls accidentally down the well with dynamite right.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Engleman had been on site and said that both men
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: had been using dynamite to clear abandoned cisterns, and phrase
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: dynamite detonated unexpectedly. The death was ruled as accidental despite
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Fred's head phrase head sustaining multiple injuries.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, he tried, he tried. So Eric Frey's wife, Sandy,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: received twenty five thousand dollars in life insurance and gave
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: sixteen thousand to Engleman as another investment in the dragstrip.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Now that is over half of the money she made made.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: How much money does it cost to run a dragstrip?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Apparently more than this, because, unfortunately for Engleman and his
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: freshly widowed friends, Pacific Dragstrip was bankrupt in less than
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: a year.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Because who was going to said dragstrip?
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I mean somebody ended up taking it over after the fact,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: and it was called the Pacific Raceway, And I mean
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch of pictures from it, so I think
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: there was a market for it. It just I mean,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I don't really know how you have a dragstrip when
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you're also a full time dentist in Saint Louis. But yeah, okay,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: so at this point Engelman no longer live in that
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: drag life. Eventually he and Ida got divorced, but he
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: was never single for long, so he married his third wife,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Ruth Jolly, in April of nineteen sixty seven. A decade
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: passed without any known killings.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: At least he went for a different name and didn't
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: go for like Eva Eva.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Edna's middle name was Ruth. That's right. So
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, I think he's maybe hung up on naw.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: But you think now at her part exploits for legendary Yeah,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that's true. At some point during the seventies, Ingleman hired
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Carmen Miranda as a dental hygienist in training. Not that
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Carmen Miranda. Okay, not that one, not that one. But
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure wearing a fruit hat while performing
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: a dental exam is probably a choking hazard. Guys, let's
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: be real. Okay, Now, this Carmen was a twenty year
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: old from the neighborhood and her brother Nick, had also
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: worked for Ingleman. Ingleman had provided her family, where she
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: was one of eight children, with financial aid in gifts
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: of much needed clothing like coats in the winter. Now
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: as a result of being a father figure to her,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Carmen trusted him. Okay, He was known to have had
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: multiple affairs over the years, and his wife, Ruth, believed
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: her husband was having an affair with Carmen. I mean,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first time a doctor sleeps with
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: an assistant. Let's just be honest. Now. Engleman trained Carmen
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: in dynistry skills she would need as a hygienist, such
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: as teeth cleaning, taking X rays, etc. God that freaks
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: me out. He also suggested another way to make some money,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: she should marry some unfortunate man, insure him and let
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Ingaman kill him for the insurance money. He told her
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: that he had killed Eric Fray for insurance money and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: guess what, it worked out just fun.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So after working for Englman for four years and finding
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: employment with another dentist on the recommendation of Engleman, Carmen
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: married electrician Peter home. Peter and Carmen had gone to
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: high school together and reconnected, later dating for less than
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: a year before marrying, and Peter was also a patient
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: of doctor Engleman's Carmen and Peter's whirlwind romance ended on
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: September fifth, nineteen seventy six. It was Labor Day weekend,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: and the couple drove out to Pacific, Missouri, close to
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: that Dragstrip to hike near old mining caves. Carmen later
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: told the police that after they began their hike, she
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: returned to the car for her purse, which, as Lady
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: and Gray pointed out in her extensive research for this episode,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: ode is a red flag because who takes a purse
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: on a hike. Carmen said that as she walked back
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: towards home, he was shot twice in the back.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, I take a purse when I go hiking, Lady
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and Gray. So I don't know if it's a red flag,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: like a like if we go hiking, I take and
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: maybe you don't call it a purse, but I take
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: everything out of my purse and I put it in
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: my little fanny pouch.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's fine, Okay, is that.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're talking like the big purse, the purse perse Okay,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: natter even I mean like you.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Know you want you want a fanny pack, you want
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: a little backpack or something.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, now, Police investigators briefly considered that Ham could
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: have been killed due to mob involvement. You see, if
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I can say it right, since Saint Louis they did
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: it right. Labor unions like the one Peter was a
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: member of, were infiltrated by mobsters at the time. It
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was quickly determined that Ham had zero ties to organize crime. Okay.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Further inspection of the crime scene included interesting fightings okay now,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: aluminum cans hanging from nearby trees okay, A large X
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: made from duct tape on a tree near where hom
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Ham had been standing. A six milimeters rifle with the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: scope was found close by under some scattered leaves and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: fifty feet away from where Helm was shot to unspent
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: six millimeters round and a fifth of boone farm wine
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: were found. Where is that boom?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: We're We're back. That's why I'm drinking this swell.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Actually me, am, I the only person that's hung cans
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: from a tree for target practice.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Always have set them on on things.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: We set them too, But when you get past that,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: my dad thought you should be able to because when
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: you miss, it makes them swing and it's like a moving.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I would when we would go camping, I would hold
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: one in my hand and let my friends shoot it
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: in my hand to like.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Shotgun with Okay, are you talking like a BB gun
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: or a pellet.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Gunna, girl, we got to talk a BB gun and
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I only trusted one person to do it. I did
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: not let her husband do it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And Buffy, Yes, aluminum cans hanging from a tree is
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: a redneck windchimee, but it's also for practice.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Now, At first it looked like target practice had turned deadly,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: but investigators quickly determined that the whole scene didn't quite
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: add up. Guys, the rifle had a scope, but it
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: was only fifty feet from the target, and if you
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about guns, you don't use a scope
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: when it's that close. You just don't.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: So Carmen received sixty thousand dollars in life insurance proceeds.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Her brother, Nick, withdrew ten thousand dollars from that, which
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: he promptly paid to his dentist Glenn Engleman. Englman then
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: gave it to his ex wife, Edna in one hundred
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: dollars bills, and she converted that cash into a Certificate
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: of deposits or CD savings account. Seems totally above board,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: that whole process very direct. Eventually, the investigators did turn
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: their attention to Engleman, who they said to be evasive.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: They also noticed that they thought he was enjoying a
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: game he was playing. However, it would be years before
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: he was charged for this murder, and four more lives
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: would be lost by then, unfortunately.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's look at this scraft, guys. Yeah. Now,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: just over a year after the death of Peter, and
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: about forty minutes north the east of Saint Louis, a
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: married couple were murdered on November third, nineteen seventy seven.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Arthur Gooswell, aged sixty one, was shot to death and
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: his wife, Vernita, aged fifty five, was fatally plungeon in
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: their farmhouse in Edwardsville, Illinois. Guys, I've never heard the
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: name Vernita before until this case. I love it, I
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: love it, but I'm like, I have never heard it now.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Their son, Ronald was the heir to their fortune and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: inherited half of their arm as well. And it surely
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: was a little consolation to Ronald after losing his parents,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: but it was more than enough for himself and his wife,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Barbara Jean Boyle to live comfortably. Now, Guys, In another
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: tragic turn for the Goozwell family, Ronald was killed less
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: than two years later, on March thirty first, nineteen seventy nine. Guys,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: he's a cutie. Look at them. He's a cutie. Okay. Now.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: His body was found four days later in a car
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: parked at an all at an East Saint Louis Motel. Guys,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: every time I have to say Saint Louis, I panic.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, got it?
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: He had been shot and bledgeened. The police had already
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: been to the Gooswell home on a missing person's call.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: When they had arrived at the home, they found Barbara
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: hosing out their garage. Now at the funeral, Prosecutor Don
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Weber called her recall her discarding in the empty PEPSI
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: can on Ronald's casket. Who does that? Who does that?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: It would soon be discovered that Ronald had been killed
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: at home. In forensic testing would show residue of blood
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: everywhere in the garage. So guys, one guess as to
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: where Barbara Boyle had her teeth clean.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: That's right, before marrying Ronald Gooswell, Barbara Boyle had been
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: knocking the boots with our least favorite dentist. But obviously
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Engelman was evolving in his methods, killing the older generation
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: of a family to eventually claim more insurance money. Barbara
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: received three hundred and forty thousand dollars in life insurance proceeds,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: which is about one and a half million today, and
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: that is before she received his parents' estate. She actually
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: tried to take out more insurance on her husband, but
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: after his death, a handwriting expert found that she'd forged
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: his name on multiple documents. Now after another change to
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: note was that Engleman did not act alone. A man
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: named Robert Handy was charged just acting as an accomplice
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: in the three Gooswell murders and served fourteen years in
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: prison for his involvement. He later testified that both he
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: and Englman ambushed Ronald Goosewell in his garage, dragged him
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: to a car, and dumped him at a motel with
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: condoms in his pocket. To quote make it look like
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: it was a sex killing or something or other robbery
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: and a sex thing, because if it's a.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Robbery sex thing, you blune in them and shoot them.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I mean it, I its just I understand what they're
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: trying to set some sort of scene, but it's you know,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: they're already killing this guy and they're going to try
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: to like hurt his reputation as well, is the way
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: I take it?
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I agree it now, Now Barbara paid off
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: a federal tax liene for Engelman, paying just under fourteen
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: thousand to settle his debt. Now Andy has stated that
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: he made no money from the murders. SPS, that's just
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: me now. After five years later, in nineteen eighty four,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Barbara was also arrested for the three murders. Okay, she
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: was apprehended in Orlando, and no, she was not a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Disney World but she had a passport and a car
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: full of luggage in the company of her two children
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: from a previous marriage and a male friend. Now authority
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: suspected she was trying to flee to Switzerland. I don't
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: know what, gosh.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: How do you solve a problem like our dentist? Sorry,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I couldn't resist the little sound of music. I also
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: call Shenanigan's on the not at Disney thing because she's
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: in Orlando in nineteen eighty four, Like she gotta go
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: to Apcot, right, I.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Sick say I can't go there and not go to Disney.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, yeah, I wanted to get married there, so.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: At least go to Gaterland or whatever.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know if y'all can hear the cat screaming
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: in the background. If you can, I am so sorry.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: My mother in law's cat is seen now and she screams.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: She's like eighteen or something, so my apologies.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: You know what, She's earned the right. I don't hear her.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: For the record, Yeah, well the cat can shut the
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: door now well. At trial, prosecutors claimed that she and
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Engleman plotted for her to marry someone wealthy and then
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: killed him for instance inheritance and life insurance. Now. She
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: was acquitted for the murder of her in laws, but
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: found guilty for the murder of her husband, Ronald, receiving
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: a sentence of fifty years guys. Barbara served half of
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: her sentence and was paroled in two thousand and nine. Okay,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: I just have to say, how could she be acquitted
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: for the murder of his parents. One was bludgeoned and
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: one was shot, and then he was blungeoned and shot.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: It was the same method, same.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I don't I mean, from what I read, I don't
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: think they had any evidence.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Do you need evidence? Karen Read's on trial with no evidence.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I want you to need evidence. I mean, not that
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I haven't all this love for Barbara, but yeah, I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: think they could clearly tie her to she was housing
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: out the garage, cleaning up the crime scene for Ronald's ye,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: paying out money for it. But I mean I think
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: she definitely was part of killing his parents.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: But because you had to have killed the parents before
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: the husband or you wouldn't get the hat. I mean, Okay,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: this is why I am not an attorney or a cop.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Well, some of the stuff I wonder how technology, like,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: how it would be different now today's say.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, back then, I mean, I want to say
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: this was an eighty four. In eighty six, I went
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: down to the DMV in Texas with one of my
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: older friend's birth certificates and got one of my lost
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: my driver's license and renewed it because she was twenty one.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: She was five foot three, blonde hair, blue eyes. I
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: five eleven, brown hair and brown eyes, and they gave
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: me a driver's lescense. They didn't have the technology back
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: then for that. So I'm going to just say they
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: didn't have the technology.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I mean the fact that he keeps popping up and
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: all these murders. Yeah, I mean this one. He's a
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: little further off, I guess. But he wasn't married to
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: the wife ever, but sorry, so still not arrested. Engelman
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: was able to continue on his normal life working as
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: a dentist, despite all of his illgotten monetary gains. He
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: owed fourteen thousand dollars to Sophie Barrera, the owner of
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: the South Saint Louis Dental laboratory. Her company provided crowns, Bridges, dentures,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: and other like I don't know what to call them,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: dental accessories. She provided them to Engleman and other local dentists.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: After failing to pay for her services, Sophie filed a
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: default inquiry against doctor Engleman on March ninth, nineteen seventy nine.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: So on March twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, eleven days before
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: the murder of Ronald Goosewell, she found a bag of
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: dynamite that had been left against her home garage. The
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: bag was partially open and it was raining, so it
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: did not fully detonate. No one was hurt, but if
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: it had all detonated, it would have destroyed half of
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: the garage and Sophie would have been killed. So Sophie
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: immediately suspected Engleman as the bomber.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, wow, so is this how the police caught
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: our deadly dentist guys? I'm going to just tell you. Oh,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: just know. Sophia told her lawyer what had happened, and
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: they decided that maybe they should try to settle rather
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: than sue. Okay, but Glenn didn't settle, and the civil
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: suit was scheduled for trial the week of January twenty first,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Okay, now, and life carried on for Sophia,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: being a girl boss who was said to truly enjoy
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: both her profession and her beautiful grandchildren. That is so sweet.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: And then on January fourteenth, nineteen eighty, Sophia was taken
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: from her family when her car exploded outside of her
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: dental lab. I mean, that's just I mean yeah. Sergeant
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Thomas Casey of the Saint Louis Baum and Arson Squad
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: later said that Barrera had been dead before first responders arrived,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: and that the bomb had been placed under the front
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of her nineteen seventy five Ford Pinto. In her office,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: they found a handwritten police emergency phone number next to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: her phone. Her son said she always thought she would
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: go that way because of what happened a long time ago.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Her ex husband said that she received obscene phone calls
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: twice a week and guys. A neighbor described her as
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the greatest lady you ever wanted to meet. Guys. To
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: own a business at that day in time as a woman,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: that is an accomplishment.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: She owned it with her ex husband, or she owned
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: it with her husband they got divorced. He then he
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: still worked there, but he gave his interest in it
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: to their kid, and then the kid gave it back
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: to her, so she had the whole business and then
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: and they she and her husband worked like happily together,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: like problems. She sounds really like a really nice, even
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: cal lady who is just trying to get her fourteen
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars. So why did Engelman think he could get
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: away with this, right.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Because he's gotten away with a lot of murders.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: He's got away with murders, but he had a hand
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: a plan here. During the seventies and eighties, Saint Louis,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Missouri was considered the unofficial murder capital of the world,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: of the country, sorry not the world was like maybe
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you, with a decades long war between
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: the Michaels and Leisures family mob families, and three or
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: four car bombings within a two to three year period
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: in the late seventies, So mafia wars continued well into
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: the eighties with bombings and their murders. So car bombs
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: had been the Saint Louis mobswapon of choice and were
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: often in the news, and Englaman thought he could, like
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: pin Barrera's death on the mafia. But as I think
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: is obvious to all of us at this point in
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: the story, Engleman is kind of becoming careless. He'd gotten
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: away with murder many times before, and he's kind of
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: seemingly becoming arrogant to a fault. So while he started
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: out killing people who were at least one degree away
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: from him, leaving no physical proof for witnesses. He ended
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: up killing Barrera a person and bringing legal action against
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: him to settle a debt he didn't want to pay,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: most likely because he couldn't. But he basically killed this
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: woman to save himself fourteen thousand dollars.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: So, okay, I love Horseshoe, Jimmy, I love that name.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just say Horshoe Jimmy. Look at this, here,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: this graph. Yeah, I'm gonna say, Lady in Gray is right.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: At this point he thought he was invincible. He started
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: getting cocky. Yeah, he started getting cocky. So, guys, as
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: we all can figure out, there were several problems with
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: his plan. Okay, Sophia Barrera had no ties to the mob. Okay.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: The bomb itself was nothing like the bombs used in
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the bombings. It was simple and crude. Okay. There's also
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: the fact that, in the very least her son and
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: lawyer knew at the standing debt scheduled civil suit, and
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that she believed Ingele had already bombed her the previous year.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean yeah, if somebody tried to
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: bomb me, I'd be selling freaking everybody. I'd be shouting
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: it from the top of the gateway. Arch.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that what it's called the gateway? Arch?
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, arch?
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Now question there it is? So? Is that arch? I
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: think I know the answer to this. Does that split
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Kansas and Saint Louis, Missouri? Is that? Is
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: that why it's called the gateway?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: No, I think you're thinking of Kansas City. In Kansas
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: City's in both states. Saint Louis is by Illinois.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: God, I should not do dummy.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: It's the that's just on the Mississippi River. It's the
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: gateway to the West. It was built in the sixties
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: by Ah.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Sammy just told me I'm pretty again. Please just just
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: say oh Archie Sody, the.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Same guy that build the pan Am building at a
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: JFK Airport. It's like a very mod architect. Who I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: think this is? Really? But I love it. I'm obsessed
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: My double like, my husband is rolling his eyes in
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: the other room. He's like, what is wrong with you today?
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Well, so I would be shouting it from the top
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: of the Gateway arch. I'd be shouting it from the
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: top of the giant ama Co sign Ammica and what
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: else is cool? In Saint Louis. I'd be shouting it
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: from the stables of the Anheuser Busch Clydesdale's.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love the Clydestals.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: I brought it back to cute animals again.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I love it so. Where I lived in Houston, I
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: lived by the Anheuser Busch Brewery and on the side
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: of the building in the seventies and eighties, they had
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: the big Anheuser Eagle up there and it was like
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: an on sign and it would flash and stuff. And
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: then underneath this they would bring the Clydesdells once a
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: year and you could go and see them. So while
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: your parents were checking out the brewery, the kids could
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: go see the Clydesdales. And I will tell you the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: first time I saw one, I was shocked because we're
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: so freaking big. I had no idea. I remember being
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: this little girl going it was like a giant.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: They are huge and I love them. And yeah, Saint
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Louis is the home of Anheuser bush. We've got We've
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: also got one of those signs I love home saying
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: we like I live there. I don't, I haven't love there.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Is it still there? They got rid of IRUs because
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: it cost too much money.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: The sign as far as I know, it's still there.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: It was on the highway where the highways split, so
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like right on one of their properties. It
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: was more like a this vintage ad. Then they also
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: had this farm where you could go meet the Clydes
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: and then you could also like bottlefield bottle feed baby
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: goats and lambs and what things do you do on
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: the daily. But it's more special for me.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I love that. And just if anybody has advice, if
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: you go over towards Scort on the courtyard in the general,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: I put pictures of the two goats that were born,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and my goat person's trying to tak me and to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: take in both of them because she doesn't want to
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: split them up because they were twins, and I need
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: help convincing double h Okay, now that we're talking about animals,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to say, well, shouting around town and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: more likely not, it wasn't a surprise when we're our
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: son Frederick named Engelman as suspect number one. Yeah, yeah, okay,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: now Glenn and Edward Ingelman did was arrested on February
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: twenty fourth, nineteen eighty not for the car bombing guys,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: for the nineteen seventy six murder of Peter. Look at that.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Look at that little hair. He's got like the umpa
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: loompa little hair.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: He's got a little qby doll hair, the little baby doll,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: she says, one little girl.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: I know we shouldn't laugh at people, but.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: I have a very round face. I can make fun
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: of him.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, he's a peal can make fun Also.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I've never murdered any once exactly.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: So eventually Engelman's ex wife, Ruth, had agreed to cooperate
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: with authorities. She told them he had confessed to multiple murders,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: but she'd been too afraid to go to the police.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: She Oh, my god, does have Burgess hair?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Okayady too good?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, ih, last night, why didn't Burgess to shave
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: off that little patch? Just shave it off?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Just which patch?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: The one on top of his head.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: But she said she was too scared to go to
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: the police. So she was especially unsettled at his at
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: his pride in his ability to murder without remorse. Now,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: authorities knew she wouldn't be able to testify against him
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: due to spas sole privilege, so they put listening devices
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: all over her home, including the bedroom, and she also
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: agreed to wear a wire, hopefully not in the bedroom.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to up there. There's Mike's on there right.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: She made numerous attempts to get him to make it admission,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: but he didn't. Even after sex, he only made regular
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: pillow talk, which I don't want to imagine, but here
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: we are. Eventually, potentially they were in a restaurant in public,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: with Ruth wearing a wire, and he made incriminating statements
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: that linked him to several murders, including Peter Holm. Included
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: in these statements was his acknowledgment of the ten thousand
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: dollars that he had given to his ex wife after
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy six murder. So the trial began on
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: August fourth, nineteen eighty. In exchange for total immunity for
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: their roles as accomplices, ed Wife, Edna Engelman, Carmen, Miranda Holme,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: and Nick Miranda all testified against Englman, telling their sides
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: of the Peter Holme murder and insurance scheme. Carmen also
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: testified about the Eric Fray murder, as described in detail
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: by Engelman as as evidence of a common scheme. Engelman
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: was found guilty of the murder of Peter Halm and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: sentenced to fifty years without parole.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Now, during the trial, hoping for leniency, Engleman confessed to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: the murders of James Bullock, Eric Frey, and the Goozweald family.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: He admitted to hitting Eric Fray with the rock, pushing
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: him down the cistern, and throwing in dynamite to make
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: it look like an accident. Now, he also provided details
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: on how he and Barbara Boyle chose Ronald Goosewell for
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: his money, murders his parents, and eventually murdered Ronald. Now accomplished.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Robert Handy testified against Engelman about these crimes. Now, guys,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: I am not sure what the hell this man was
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: thinking and why he thought this would grant him leniency. Okay, Now,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: it did eventually end up earning him three life sentences
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: from the state of Illinois. Okay. Now, I am glad
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: that he confessed for the sake of the family. They
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: deserved answers. But guys, the horrific violence he inflicted on
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: these people certainly do not inspire leniency. And I'm going
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: to just tell you the death penalty probably in my
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: opinion if they had the evidence now. But Peterham wasn't
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: the only victim who found some sort of justice thanks
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: to the recordings made with the help of Ruth. The
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: police also had an admission to the bombing of Sophia
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: bar on tape. Another trial began November twelfth, nineteen eighty,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: but just after the jury was seated, Englman's lawyer moved
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: for a mistrial. He then tried to say that trying
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: him again would be double jeopardy, And guys, that's not
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: how that works. Okay. I don't know if you know
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: how double jeopardy works, but that's not how it works. Okay. Now,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he was eventually sentenced to life in prison as the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: jury couldn't come to a unanimous decision on the death penalty.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: Aslama would say, the fact that twelve people were able
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: to even come up with a guilty verdict in itself
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: is a miracle, right, Okay. Now, a federal court tacked
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: on another sixty years for charges involving mail fraud in
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: damaging a vehicle in interstate commerce by means of an explosion.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that was a federal crime, and I.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Was like, why is that a federal climb.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: And that was it wasn't not an interstate I know
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: so much by way, so I don't know.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: He made multiple attempts appeal, but to no avail. Now,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I also have a problem with immunity with that many
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: people when you've got him on audio.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh that is I mean and Edna, So yeah,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: the hall Carmen and her brother were involved in the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: one murder and that is awful, and then Edna was
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: involved in multiple or like in one way or another. Yeah,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't have had immunity, But I don't know. Times
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: were different, I guess. So we're going to take a
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: look at what people back then had to say about Engelman,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: try to understand him a little better. The prosecutor who
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: sent him to prison was Gordon Ainkney, who is still
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: a practicing law in Saint Louis. He had an interesting
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: theory as to why Engleman did what he did. Engleman
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: claimed he committed murder for money, but as Anngney said,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Engleman never did it for enough to make it worthwhile.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: He related homicidal intimacy with sexual intimacy. There was almost
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: a sexual excitement about killing. He's said to have quite
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: a sexual drive. He has a very macho image of himself.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: And as much as I don't like caring about his
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: sexual drive, most of that tracks were me because he
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: started out taking about half of the widow's insurance earnings
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: and soon enough was making a tiny percentage while he
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: got deeper and deeper in debt. So I don't I mean,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: look at this graund look at I mean, I know
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Barbara went to jail.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Where is he spending the money because he wasn't paying
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: his bills?
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: He wasn't paying his bills. Well, he wasn't taking that
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: much money. He's running a business the whole time. He's
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: got a wife and child to support because we didn't.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Really talk doing all that good stuff.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, he's he's spending all his money to
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: like groom new accomposts the whole time. So uh and
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: like look good. He's all about the image. So I
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: do think it wasn't about the money. I think it
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: was about kind of power he had over people. And
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: then you know, as far as the sexual part goes,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: I do think that kind of like got him off
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: in a way, like that was what was important to him,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: like a fellow criminal said that the dentist always planned
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: his crimes from the witness stand backwards, which, like, given
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: some of the soppiness we've talked about tonight between the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: crimes and the trials, I don't know that I agree
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: with that, but I think he definitely would tell it
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: that way to somebody.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna just say this, man, I do not
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: want to think about his sexual powers and stuff. I
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: just I Yeah, I could live without that. But from
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: what we've learned about Engleman, it should be no surprise
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: guys that he kept running his mouth once convicted. So
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: let's hear about him from the horse's black free mouth. Okay,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: it takes a certain kind of person to be able
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: to kill another human being. Engleman once told a reporter,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: I learned early in life that I possessed a special talent.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: I mean the fact that anyone's boasting. But yes, he
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: later boasted this, I can kill in cold blood without
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: any remorse, and Engleman enjoyed it. When his crimes went unsolved,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: he said, I like to kill, he admitted later. It
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: sets a man apart from his fellow man if he
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: can kill what the f okay, I'm gonna look at that.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Look look at this person.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I mean he I feel like he's talking, like he's
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: like a scar and the Lion King, like I don't
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: use the predator here. And it's like, no, you are
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: actually a cuby doll.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah you are. Yeah. Now, When his wife Ruth pressed
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: him for a reason for his murderous ways, Engleman replied, money, money, money, money,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: and guys, I don't want to see this production of Cabaret, Okay,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: I don't okay. He also enjoyed his local notoriety, saying
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a celebrity, Jesse James, the Dalton Game and doctor Engelman. No, dude,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: you're a cutey doll. Okay, you're a cutey doll. I
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: mean yeah, You're just a cutey doll. Okay. So no remorse,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: a sense of pride in his work, and a bizarre
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: delusion of the Old West. His true legacy, sadly, was
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: more of a can you believe that Dennis was a
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: serial killer vibe? Okay, as well as a book titled
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: Appointment for Murder in a horror movie called The Dentist okay, guys,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: and of course the irreversible impact he had on the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: family and friends of his victims because guys, he wasn't
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: a good guy.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's the true legacy. It's I mean,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: people talk about him, but like the most lasting impact
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: was what he took from people, right like most murderers.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Can I just say this dentist, it's been six months
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: time for your checkup is the most horrific visual. I
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: would rather see the lady in the casket with the
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: dead body from Last Time of Lama. I don't need
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: to see this.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: So you should never google the cover of The Dentist
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: too then, because it's much worse. But I will say
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: the Dentist the movie has nothing to do with us.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: It's that everything says it is about this guy. The
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: only thing in common is that there's a dentist. I'm
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: not everything happens in the dental office. Nope. Like to
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: random patience, there's a lot of opera.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Don't like spider stuff, so I don't watch you, right, Phobia,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: I don't like dentists. I'm not watching The Dentist, Lama.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: You better watch it or I'm gonna pull out some
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: French cheese for you. And only our remembers, our members
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: only last night. Then you will know why I will
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: be bringing fringies out. Okay, cheese is mustard.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's frenches.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: It's fringe cheese, all right. Saint Louis And as a
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: little girl, it was called fringe cheese. That was my
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: grandfather's name. And to try to get us to eat it,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: they would say, because we're cajun, hey, here is Frenchie
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Pap Paul's special mustard for you. It's fringe cheese. Okay,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: I don't eat it, so it doesn't matter what it is.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: But that was his thing. It was fringe cheese. I
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: also have an uncle tea Bone and a teat and
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: a slim and that's their real name.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Fair. This is not fair because I can't. I can't
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: make fun of your deceased family.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: But you keep They were and Ta Teat, Teet and
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Slimmer both still alive. Uncle te Bone died and they
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: were missing their teeth. They wore overalls and they played
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: with the gators in the bayou. They're in Louisiana. It's okay,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Uncle and I came out somewhat normal.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Uncle Frenchie was in Louisiana.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: It was my grandfather grandfather. It was Paul Frenchy.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: He didn't buy frenches mustard.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want to know what was in that yellow bottle,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: but it was called Fringey. Escorting to him. Score plane
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: has an uncle t Bone. Is that their real name
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: or their nickname was? What?
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: That is their real name on their birth certificates. If
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: you want me to show you my ancestry tree thing,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: it's their real name.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Trying to think of something to offer to this table.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: But families got pretty boring names.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: It's what happens when you take an Aber family, a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Boudreau family and you just mix it all together. We're
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: probably all related.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: If I do love that you've got some a bear
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: That's my maiden name. I am an Abe. I am
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Terry lynn Abe.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: I love the name Abor.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: So I just made the mistake of googling the dentist too.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Don't look at the dentist. I told you you can't
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: handle this triple diamond.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're just gonna say we can only hope that
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: he didn't get to enjoy his fame too much from
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: prison before dying of diabetes complications in nineteen ninety nine.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: In the Jefferson City Correctional Center and guess what, bye
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: bye bitch.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like at the sky diabetes is like a serious issue.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: But like, yes, I'm really glad he died of diabetes
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: in prison. Of all the ways he could go, like,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: no one needs to give you any more attention them,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: We're already given you.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to just tell you I hated everything
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: about this case. Everything about it. It did not help
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: release into any of my dentophobia at all. And the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: fact that he prayed upon women to get them to
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: marry people. I mean, he must have been a smooth
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: talker or he didn't need to buy I'm going to
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: just say he must have been good in the bedroom
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: or something, because it was not his looks.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's his hypnotic sexual pass.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: Part of the zizzing cult.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: I don't need him getting mixed up with the sisians.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, but he's not attractive. He didn't have money
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: to wine and dine them.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: He would never have been a box truck.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I don't see the attraction. Maybe it was different back then.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: I think he had I think he made people think
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: he had a lot of money. I like, it is
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: wild to me that he was able to talk that
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: many people into being accomplices. But I think that's why
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: he went into debt. It was like to be the
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: big spender and he's doing this all to groom people.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Now, I will say I loved that he bought coats
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: for the children who were cold. I loved that he
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: gave free dental cleanings and stuff. But I will be honest,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I would rather you charge them a little something or
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: like the best little Worehouse in Texas, let them bring
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: you chickens or something instead of doing it for free.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: Instead of no. But I'm saying he tried to look
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: like a good guy, but he was really a bad guy.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah there. I mean, you're preying on people in need,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: you're offering a needed service that's going to improve people's healthcare.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: And I assume there's plenty of people you helped that
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: he didn't kill or groomed to be part of a
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: murder scheme.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: But chicken, yes, Okay, I live not too far somewhere.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: The best Little Worehouse in Texas was actually Lagrange, Texas
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: is twenty miles down the road. So you know what
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: that movie is, right? You know it's real. It's real.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: It really knows now, I know of the movie.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is real. It was off of a real
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: These were real people. She owned the chicken ranch. She
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: had working ladies in Lagrange, Texas. It was legal. Marvin
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: Zendler from Houston really exposed it.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Is is chicken ranch a euphemism?
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: No, it was a chicken ranch. So in the guys
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: chicken guys pay. The guys couldn't pay, so they would
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: pay in chickens. Well that's I mean in today's time
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: with the cost of eggs.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: I mean she a million to meaning, I don't know.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: It was a farm right down the road. They just
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: had a lot of property and the chickens just roamed
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: free and stuff, And then guys couldn't pay for the services,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: so they just brought more chickens and it got the
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: name of the Chicken Ranch. Before that, it was called
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Lady Something's Brothel.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess people accept different forms of payment
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: throughout history.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Tatas, Are we talking about Dolly Pardon she played in
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: the show? Are we talking about.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: You? I'm playing in the movie.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: I am going to go google that real life the
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: damn of the Chicken Ranch.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Tatas.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Her name was Elden Milton Chadwell and there is a
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: zazy top song about it. So her name was Edna
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: mild In Chattel. Yes, no she didn't. Okay, I don't
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: know how to share my screen. I'm going to just
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: tell you this looks like somebody's mom.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, what but the tatas.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: You know that. I'm going to just say, looking at
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: this picture, she did not have big tatas. Okay, if
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: Amy wants to go find it, she can find it.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Just google real life, madam.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: If you've got big tatas, you can charge a cow.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: She did not have big tatas. But so, yes, Lagrange,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Texas is where that is. And do you see what
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: Lama wants? I want to know does she she wants
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: he owes me a farm of chickens? Is that real chickens?
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: Or do you want to be a madam?
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: We're talking about the actions?
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about here? I'm just trying to
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: make light heart because this guy got away with so
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: much and the fact that he manipulated these women into
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: doing that for him.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah uh and yeah. I thought that the dental aspect
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: was going to be it grossed me out, but it
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: was really just it was this particular dentist that grossed
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: me out. Another another lesson I learned tonight is probably
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: don't marry people you just started dating. I mean, if
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: that needs to be said. I know times were different again,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: but a lot.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Of these what about moving in with them? I mean.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: A story goes that's different because.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: And we moved in together, Thanksgivin.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: When did you get married?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, we didn't get married for two years.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: And did you take out copious amounts of life insurance
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: like very early in your relationship? I guess, because that's
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: that's the problem I'm having here is I.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Mean, I will tell you when I saw the title.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: I still don't know who recommended this. I'm going to
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: just go on a limb and say it had to
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: have been my fabulous GT, because I can guarantee you
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: I did not pick anything that had to do with
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: the Dentist. I was so worried when he picked it
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: that he was going to kill people while they were
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: in the dentist chair.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: Well that's why you can't watch that movie The Dentist.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not watching that. And we're not even going
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: to tell Double H about it because he'll be like, oh,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: let's watch this but that's what I thought it was
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: going to be. Or I thought he was going to
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: be a petty dentist who then killed his victims, a
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: pedophile dentist. Okay, I was like, sorry, weekly patties.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Manny patty dentist all in one. Yeah, sounds disgusting. Yeah, no, I.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Don't kill anyone. And the only thing he did bad
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: in the dentist practice was groomed the girls and not
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: pay his bills and kill people. So none of it
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: was to his patients. Well, no, he did kill a
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: couple of the.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Kill patients, yet after they married others. Yeah, it's I
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: mean he used his dental practice as like a tool
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: to bring people to him, so that he it could
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: have been a lot creepier in the in the toothway.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: I will say I did enjoy spending a little time
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: in Saint Louis tonight. If you couldn't tell.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: It's on my list took places to go, so double
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: h and I when we retire, we're getting an r
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: V and then we're going to drive around. Saint Louis
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: is one of my first places that I.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: Have many more recommendations than I could fit into the
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: story tonight. So just starting anyone's going there with let.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Me start a channel on the Discord called Saint Louis.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Make sure it's spelled and pronounced correctly so she can
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: start putting them in.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know that anyone wants that specific of a
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: discord channel.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Or we could just put a travel channel that.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: Sure, we have threads in there. People who know what's
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: what's what with certain cities can give their insight. But
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I do want to say while I have a bit
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: of a platform, since I'm just filling in tonight, Uh,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: I do have so much love for Saint Louis, and
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: so while I'm here, I wanted to remind everyone that
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: it sustained an enormous amount of storm damage this month.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: Uh it was you know, I just watched the national
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: news every night, but it was on there for like
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: a week in a row.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: That has not made the news here in Texas. And
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because we've had some damage
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: we have not We've seen Oklahoma damage. I did not
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: know that Saint Louis had gotten this.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, there's honestly, like I thought this picture would
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: be good for like a larger scale, but the pictures
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: of actual individual houses are really like, it's just a
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: whole backs of houses.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: Just was it tornadoes?
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: There's tornadoes and I think there were like two days
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: of storms in a row. So I thought, if we
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: if I was going to be yeah, you know, please
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: waxing on about how much I love Saint Louis. Tonight
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to bring this up, and I did a
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: little poking around and found a well reviewed charity that
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: the Saint Louis government is directing people to donate to. Okay, now,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: that is the Saint Louis Community Foundation. So no pressure,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: but if you are in a position to give and
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: you're interested, they could certainly use some help right now.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: The website is stl gives dot org, and if you
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: follow the online donation link, there's an option to donate
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: straight to the storm Really Fund, So if you can,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know everyone hashing out, but.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: Didn't I didn't know they had got hit, and I
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: will decide. That's what I hate about the news. They
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: pick and choose what they show us, and when you're
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: trying to avoid the political scene, you're not seeing as
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: much news as you normally would. I'm literally now just
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: watching crime because crime news and puppies because I don't
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: want to see all the other stuff. But thank you
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: for putting that in the chat.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I thought, you know, like I said, I this,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: I had fun. I mean, this was a gross story.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, when I read it and
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: saw it was in Saint Louis and he went to
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: wash you, I was like, yeah, I want to do this.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: I could have talked for hours longer about weird Saint
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Louis stuff.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: So I will tell you. I just remembered why I
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: call it Saint Louis sex in the city. Carrie Bradshaw
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: had an assistant after she called off her wedding to
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: mister Big and her assistant met the guy and it
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: was in Saint Louis.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: She found her love made me in Saint Louis.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: Mat me in Saint Louis. But her name was what
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: Louise or something?
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: Her name was Louise. It was played by Jennifer Hudson. Yeah,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: it was ridiculous. The password was love, So that's where
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: Louisa unless you have a password that's four letters anymore.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: But no, thank you for bringing that, because I mean,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: being somebody who works in the community emergency response area, Guys,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: you don't realize when things like this happening communities. A
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: lot of people don't know. And now it's even changed
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: worse what it takes to get FEMA grants and how
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: much damage there has to be for the community and
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: towns to get money. But guys, the fires that devastated
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: the Bastrop area outside of Austin, I think it was
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: in twenty eleven or twenty twelve. They just finally got
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: paid in twenty twenty. So if this is happening now,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: that means they're not going to get any type of
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: government type help to rebuild and all that stuff for years.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: So we need think people can give and if it's
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: a credible organization like this, it'll go to the people.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of stuff out there, so
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I did, yeah, like check on this before sharing it,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: But it is. I mean, I found it first because
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: that's what the you know, government response website said to
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: donate to. But it has been vetted and they do.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: I'm I mean, there's other charities at Red Cross.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: Un red Cross it goes into a general fund. But
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: I think I heard you say this, there's a storm response.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, the Red Cross website was insane. I don't
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: know if there's a problem right now, but I was like,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I can't send people to this.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: Website because I mean, don't I mean, like Lady and
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: Gray just dealing with Fama. Is it pain in the ass?
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: People are still waiting from Helene. I mean it's and
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: now it's gonna get worse. But no, and Red Cross.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: I love the Red Cross. They do a lot of
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: good things, but they also pay their people a lot
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: of money.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why you have.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: To I can tell you everything. We do everything re SHIRT,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: the Community Emergency Response Team. We do not get paid.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: It is all volunteer work, but we still have to
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: go through training and get certified. We don't get a dime.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: And that's the way it should be. Well, thank you
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: so much for that.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Savage got.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: Oh savage cash.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: We all saw the movie. What else were we gonna do?
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: It was the time, right, I loved it. Everybody in
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: my movie theater had like a million champagne bottles went
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: off when the movie started.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: What movie A sex in the city.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: We had smart Off whipped cream flavor.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: Now. I hosted a party in Las Vegas for friends
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: and we had a Sex and the City party, and
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: then when the next one came out, I forget which one.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: I did one in California, and I did one in Brentwood,
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: one in Britford, California, and one in Vegas. And we
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: did a contest for who had the best shoes?
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Who Wow? That smiled? What you smiled like? You won
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: that contest? I didn't.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't because let me tell you, they brought out
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: some great shoes. Thank you for co hosting. I hope
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: you will come back again and this hell and I
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: want to challenge everyone who is here watching tonight. Could
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: you maybe email Tara at tcwtmedia dot com or Terry
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: at tc wtmedia dot com if you have any recommendations
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: for cases you want us to cover, And I'm going
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: to ask, can you maybe send some that aren't quite
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: so awful? No necrophiliac, no dentist. Somebody today mentioned doctor
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: death on couch Court and I'm adding that to the
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: list because doctor death from Dallas. I wouldn't mind covering.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: But maybe we want to get into dunch to what dune?
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Oh dunch, Yes, I wouldn't mind.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: I think you should have Amy as your guest for
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: that one. Amy a miss a miss would be a
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: great guest for a doctor death.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, let's have to all remember that Terry does
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: have a medical condition that affects her cognitive skills and
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: my speech skills. And sometimes I even say my own
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: last name wrong.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: That's your last name chapel Hill.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: No, it is not Chappelle. So you know, I have
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: a friend that lives in Chapel Hill. And when I
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: sent her the video where it did that she goes
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: if they only knew you, I was like, why she
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: goes because you used to say it, right. I was like,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I know, I said, but it does sound much more better,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: just like Target, who calls target target? It's Tarja, chapel
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Hill is Chappelle. It's I'm not doing anything new to people, okay,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: But thank you so much for joining me tonight and
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: for hating Dennis as much as I do, because some
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: people love them and I love them even though they
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: love it. Oh yes, we are God. The video, the
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: facial expressions that me and Mama make are just awful.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: But the next Thursday is wine, wealth and murder, and guys,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: it is bonkers. I mean, this guy is a piece
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: of work. Luckily he didn't kill a lot of people.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: He didn't. He didn't kill a lot of people. Okay,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: killed some people, but not a love of them. Oh, Captain,
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: you are getting comments that they love your hair color.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you. It's called half natural, half not.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: How long does the pink last?
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: I mean it's in the conditioner at this point.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: Oh is it because I used to do mine that
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: way for my birthday month in July. It would last
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: like a week. Yeah, I've had a lot of money.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for a week. It's you gotta put it in
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: the conditioner.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, well you're going to have to tell me how
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: to do that.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easy.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Because I plan on having pink care for the live
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: show in July because it will be birthday month.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: Well that's very exciting. Shout out to the live show. Also,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: I want to say, if you like tonight's show, be
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: sure to check out the other shows on the channel.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Every weekday at eight thirty am, you can watch Couch
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: Court with Lama. We're currently losing our minds watching the
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: Karen Reid pre trial. That guy that today, Oh my god.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: In the fact that people on X are so convinced
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: Karen Reid is guilty based on the prosecution who rested today.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: I really want to sit down and I'm going to
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: talk to Lama. Maybe we should invite some of them
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: on her show. I say we, like I'm involved in
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: a it, she should invite them on her show. I
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: would love to hear what part of the evidence they
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: found so credible.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: I think in order to have a discussion with one
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: of those people, you would have to have the patients
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: of a Saint Louis.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: We would, and we would have an arbitration person. But
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do. I always love to look at
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: both sides. I always love to hear devil's advocate other
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: So I would like to hear maybe their life experiences
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: made them hear or see something that I didn't. Maybe
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: I have a block on my side and I didn't
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: hear it the same. So I would love to know
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: why they are so convinced, because some of them don't
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: even live there. Oh no, A lot as me, And
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, why are you so convinced?
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting case that really yeah, the whole I
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: thought she was guilty. It's talking about but I thought she.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: Was guilty going into the first trial from what I
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: had read I thought she was guilty, and then I
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: got to watch I'd say sixty percent, and I was like, yes,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: she did not, or if she did, they have not
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: convinced me.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's maybe she did, but I haven't seen any yeah,
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: any evidence of it. So you know it's I just can't.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying she's innocent. I'm saying I would have
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: to say not guilty right now.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: So Lama, I fa'nd listening. I think you need to
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: ask some of those people to come on that level.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: Head No, but I mean, oh, lady and Gray is
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: all up on X. She could help us find.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: Some of these people, lure them in, lure them in.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe she should use her hypnotic Lama personality. I didn't sexual,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: I said.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: Not sexual powers. I don't know.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: And then we also have Midday Missing my show where
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: we cover missing person cases. I will say next week
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: may have an update on a case that we covered.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Got some information that a family is getting closer to heaven.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: They've been told they'll have results in the next four
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: or five days on DNA on a body that was found,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: and they have agreed to come on the show if
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: That.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: So we do possibly have that coming, and as I
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: told them, I hope for their sake, it's not the
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: way they want to have their family member, but it'll
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: stop the every night wondering and it will give them
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: It's not going to give them closure, but it will
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: at least give them some answers.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, I mean, it's not closure, but it's like answers,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: tiny amount of closure maybe of like.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: You know, but they said they would get closure when
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: the person who did it is found. But right now,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: this is being able to say goodbye and be able
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: to lay them to rest and to officially stop the
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: wondering and then they'll move on to justice.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: Have those shows, but I will tell you, oh the
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: Court Couch Court, after Dark, after whatever it's called with
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: P Diddy. Guys, if you haven't got and watched those videos,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: it's not live. Lamo reads them cold read, and let
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: me tell you, you can hear Lama's facial expressions in her voice,
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: and I know Amy is snipping a lot of it.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: And there will be more video on a Member's only
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: with Lama's expressions as she says these things the first time.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: So check out the other shows on this channel. Thank you,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: all for being with us tonight. Kavin, how would you
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: like to close out for your guest appearance tonight.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, remember to like subscribe, hit
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: the notification bell, become a member and follow the podcast,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: and thanks for being here. Have fun, make good decisions,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: and watch for bears.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, did you hear me say that I want to
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: watch the bears who slide down the slide in playing
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: people's pools.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: Because I didn't hear that. But the other Terry in
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: our group here, Mam Terry Terry, she says watch for bears.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: That's how she says, I love you so oh I
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: love that.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well her, guys, stay safe most importantly, if you
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: see something, say something. So many of us are scared
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: to get involved. If you see something happen, we think
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: about ourselves. We think about what it's going to mean
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: to us. Don't just speak up, say something. Stay safe,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: and if you're so inclined, enjoy your wine time. If not,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: have a mock tel. Okay, just most importantly, stay safe
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: and tell the people that you love you love them
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: because tomorrow is not guaranteed. Guys. Uh oh, before I
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: say goodbye to somebody said momentary.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Mama Terry.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mama Terry. I was going, did I just miss
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: in her name?
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: Your chat name is Terry. Kay hasn't been around a ton,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: but yeah.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: I was like going, did I just mispronounce my name?
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: Another thing we didn't mention here is that there is
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: a new baby Tater Tot on the couch court with
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Lama Annie, who has been on the show, had her
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: little boy and he is absolutely divine with his little nose.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: So we want Mama Tater Taught to take care of him.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: And guys stay safe and we will see you all
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: here for true crime and wine time next Thursday.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Bye, guys, good night. You want to do