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Dr. Lucas Marino on Monetizing Your Book with a Course · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Here in Daily Rider World, we frequently talk about ways to build a business as a writer.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: The sooner you can get comfortable thinking of yourself not just as an author, but also as a business owner, the better.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best business decisions you can ever make is building multiple streams of income with your book.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And my guest is here today to teach us how to create one of the most important income streams, which is creating courses.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas Marino is the founder and owner of Merino Consulting Services and his two training companies, Merino Training and East Partnership.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's also the co-founder of the Empire Builders Masterclass, a training resource for creative entrepreneurs.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas helps entrepreneurs and authors launch and sustain online training products.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's a certified ThinkIffic expert and host of the Conversations with Course Creators Podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: A military engineer by experience, he spent 21 years as a naval engineer in the United States Coast Guard.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: He then founded Marino Consulting Services and worked in several senior logistics engineering program manager roles for military acquisitions, including Army landing craft and the Navy's Columbia submarine program.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then Lucas decided the time was right to realize his dream of being a creative entrepreneur, so he made the big leap.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas has a real passion for developing others and partnering with other entrepreneurs.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So in this conversation today, we dive into everything that you always wanted to know about creating a course from your book, but were afraid to ask.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: You'll learn why a course is a great product, types of courses, and the tech platforms to deliver them, how to be an awesome instructor, even if you don't have a teaching background, and much more.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure to check out Lucas's website, merinotraining.com, as well as his brand new book, Monetize Your Book with a Course.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, there will be links to all those things in the show notes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: This was a really fun interview.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas is a good friend of mine.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's also a member of our Daily Writer Club.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I have so much respect for what he's accomplished.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited about this brand new book that he has out.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Monetize your book with a course.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm super excited to dive into that topic today in this conversation.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So here's my interview with the amazing Dr.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas Marino.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas, thanks for making time to be a guest on the show today.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about this conversation on monetizing your book with a course.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You are the man, you are the myth, the legend, the expert on this topic.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to have you here.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for joining us.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for the invite, Kent.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm a huge fan of the show.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a little bit of a I'm starstruck.
• 2:53
  unknown: Starstruck.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not only do I get to hang out with Kent in the in the mastermind, but uh to be on the show is pretty surreal because I've you know listened to it for over a year and a half now.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, well, thank you.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, people do tell me sometimes I cut quite a figure in my polo shirt.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I didn't realize before I got onto that that you were gonna be wearing a polo shirt.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, maybe subconsciously I was like, Kent, polo shirt, this is what I'm wearing today.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm gonna start a whole platform around guys wearing the same color polo shirt just every day, like a Steve Jobs thing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wouldn't life be easier if we just didn't have to think about that stuff?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I actually uh know a guy who does that in his market as part of his branding.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Steve Sims wears a black t-shirt everywhere.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually kind of genius.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he wears.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you see him with a like a suit jacket on, it's over a black t-shirt.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he wears.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about course stuff.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got a lot of questions about monetizing your book with a course.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a very simple topic, but also it I think writers sometimes make it more complex than it needs to be.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to dig into some of the topics that you have in your amazing new book.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the first question I would throw out there is why would somebody want to put the time and the effort into a course when they've already written a book and they've put all this knowledge and time and wisdom into a book.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: What value does a course bring to somebody that a book doesn't bring?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's the first question I would ask.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a great question.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's there's several reasons.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: One, you've already, it's kind of like the inverse of the question, you've already done all that work.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So getting to a course is much easier than if you didn't have a book.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like having gone through the process of writing a book and then publishing a book, whether it be self-published or traditionally published, is like so parallel to course development that it's almost like you have an advantage after you've gone through the process of writing and publishing your book when it comes to course creation.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're primed, you're ready to go.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the time's right, so that's good timing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Second part is the monetary value of a course versus a product like a book.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: As much as I love writing, reading, consuming all the things book, I know that the market for courses is much stronger when it comes to pricing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you're someone that's written a book and you're trying to figure out how to not only sell more books, but also find alternate ways to take that same experience, that same knowledge that you put in your book, put it in a new format, release it, and sell it for a much higher price, courses give you that opportunity.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be a bit of a force multiplier for the book in that you can now take that into a parallel or a companion product and send the same message to sometimes the same reader in a different way.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, alternatively, um, you may actually reach a new audience with your course that you didn't reach with your book.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some people are just served by courses and they're in the market for a course.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: They don't either they don't traditionally buy and read books on these topics, or they just find audio or visual presentation of material more appealing to them.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they're more apt to go for the audiobook or they're more apt to go for a course on the same topic.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So is there's is there some value in we as authors just admitting to ourselves that not everybody wants to read.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Some people want to consume material by via audio, like a podcast or audiobook.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like courses, some people like groups or masterminds better.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of requires some humility, doesn't, as an as an author, because you have to step back and go, not everybody you have to embrace the idea that not everybody wants to read your book, no matter how good it is.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's it's kind of it's a little heartbreaking, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like yeah, it kind of is.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and and you don't, and it's hard to understand because we love books whether they're ours or not, right?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So like we love other people's books and we love the the practice of reading and and the experience, but it is a different time commitment.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a different type of mental stimulation, like the visual stimulation that comes with video animation, uh, right type of of visual content outside of the published word, just is different for some people.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, they may, yeah, like you said, they may just not be readers.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I find that I think it was who was it that wrote a book recently?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: They got like a huge publishing deal.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was it uh Billie Eilish?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, the book tanked.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It tanked because her audience doesn't read.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you and I read that story not too long ago, and I just thought, what publishing person approved that?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what publisher would think that basically Gen Zers would want to read a big book like that?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my son's 19, he doesn't like to read books, so I don't know.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of feel bad for the publishing people because they probably thought that was a great idea.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they may have, you know, but I think it's a pretty quick.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she probably could have done a poll on Instagram or something ridiculous like that to figure out whether it was a good idea, you know.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Although I think that in some part there's always this expectation that people with that big an audience are just gonna get people to buy whatever they put out.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for us it'd be catastrophic, you know, when you think about the amount of time and money and effort invested in building something like a book in your business, and then you put it out and it just completely flat and there's like no hope.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's terrible.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's terrible.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Man, yeah, there's a lot of nuances to all that stuff, I guess.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish I understood them better, but it's always fluctuating in the publishing industry, of course, what people like and what they don't like.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I don't know.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um why do you think that most authors don't make courses from their books?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: What what is it about so many writers that that sometimes we're hesitant to take our book and turn into some other forms of products that people can enjoy?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's uh that's a that's a that's a question that gets right at the heart of a lot of my clients actually, because they um go through this period of either they've never considered building a course or they have, but something's keeping them from doing it.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's by the way, we're speaking mostly about nonfiction authors here, people that are subject matter experts in something, and they want to then carry that expertise to people um in these different product forms.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But to to do so in a course requires some of this, some of the things like tech stacks.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: When I say tech stack, I mean software.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: When I say software, I mean learning management systems and customer relationship management systems and all this stuff that immediately people go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you sound like you're speaking another language.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And all they've done is read an article, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like on how to get started.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they get turned off when they realize or when they think uh that there's gonna be this huge tech mountain to climb or this big skills gap that they don't have a way to close.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in reality, it's really not that bad at all.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a lot of times it's just like a misunderstanding of what it's gonna take.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other times it's commitment.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: They've they've already committed to this book, they're marketing the book, their plates full when it comes to time, and they're worried about the amount of personal energy and and time and money that it's gonna take to get a course built.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times, um, when they start trying to do it without bringing someone on to help them, they just get overwhelmed.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and rather than just be confident and take one step at a time, they get they lose their confidence and they just get timid and they don't follow through.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that by the way, that's the worst thing you can do.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather you create a so-so course and get going with it and serve people because with our technology we have today, like even something as simple as just turning on Zoom and recording yourself with a presentation or a PowerPoint.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you literally create courses with Zoom and just PowerPoint.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and so you don't have to sell them for a million dollars.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know a guy who sells courses for he's made seven figures selling$150 courses.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And$150 courses are literally filmed just like this, except it's a PowerPoint with a screen share.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like in a little tiny box in the corner, and he tells you straight up, like, hey, I didn't spend a fortune on this budget to create this.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna walk you through how I do this.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the course costs$150, not not a thousand.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you're gonna enjoy it though.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like the lo-fi courses.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I find those really refreshing, honestly.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that works.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd rather someone do that than not do anything, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think that oftentimes we just we just are a little bit less optimistic about what we're capable of.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just here to tell every last one of you that if there's one message in the book, it's that you can absolutely do this, whether you do it the way I tell you to or not, you can do this.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do it your own way if you need to, but you can do this as long as you get the the fundamentals of course development down, you'll be good to go.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before I dive into a couple of specific questions about course development and LMSs and curriculum, those kind of things, I'm already hearing the voices in my head that I can hear the people listening who are screaming at me, not literally, but uh but the the emotions that sometimes we feel, it feels like screaming because the objection that people have to recording themselves on video or audio sometimes is really, really strong.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, what would you say to people who they think about the idea of creating a course, but they go, Well, I'm not good on video, I don't want to learn the tech, I just don't want to hassle with it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: How do how do how can people who don't want to do that, how do they get over the hump so they can create a course with the video stuff?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, great question.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't have to have video, although video I've I say in the book video is king, but audio rules.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Video is king because people love video content.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you don't have to be the face in the video.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can use animation, you can use um your audio of your voice narrating over presented information.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've seen PowerPoints that look like animated films.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I it's crazy what people can do.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't necessarily have to have long course videos either.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're comfortable with just shooting a few minutes and getting um all the really key points out in video, you can do that and then divert the rest of the content to audio-based or written content.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the big thing is that you meet the learner where they need you.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you just have to remember that if you decide not to do this, you're doing a disservice to your potential learners who aren't gonna think the way you do about your video.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: They are they're actually proud of you for doing it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that if you can just acknowledge the fact that um you got to get out of your head a little bit about it and you have control, that you can do amazing things.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and like I said, you don't have to be a face on a camera screen the whole time or a video screen the whole time.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can I've even seen people hire filming crews to bring in actors and everything, and I don't usually endorse that by the way, but it's possible, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just get creative and have fun with it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I actually helped a gentleman one time who was very severely disabled at a young age, and he did not put himself in any of his videos, but he created this entire animated series that he narrated, and I thought it was pretty cool to see somebody who just took the time to be artistic and create this animation.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with the software we have now, like Vyond and Powtoon and all these other software, to do things like animations, it's pretty quick and easy.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, there's you have options, basically, is what it comes down to.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or you could just do an audio course.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, which is basically a podcast.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can do an audio course.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Honore, uh Anore Corter, for those that aren't aren't uh aware of who we're talking about.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: She has an audio course for her prosperity for writers.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And people love it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you usually don't charge like a you know a very high ticket price for an audio-based course.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I say usually because there's no rules.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's all about the value of the uh outcome of the course that drives the price, in my opinion, and um and buyer psychology.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's absolutely an option.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can create an audio-based course that's heavy on text content as well.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you can provide other resources like downloadables and ebooks and exercises and worksheets and all those things, and that's where you prop up all the value.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily about your face on video.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is sponsored by Vellum.
• 15:39
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• 15:47
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• 15:56
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• 16:01
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• 16:08
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• 16:17
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• 16:21
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• 16:24
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• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right, back to our conversation with Lucas Marino.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you know what format to put a course in?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's say, for example, um somebody has a little book on some kind of nonfiction topic.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: How would they know whether to do an audio course, whether to do a video course?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going to do a video course, should you I I've I've taken a lot of quote-unquote courses over the years that are basically like a 60 or 90 minute video of them just showing some PowerPoint slides, like we're talking about, they're walking through a process or whatever.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just one recording versus doing like the same thing in little 10-minute chunks and having that in more of a fancier LMS system.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think this is where a lot of people get hung up is they have the content, they're excited about it, but they don't know what form it should take.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you're talking about um the form of the of the of the material, if I put on my my like learning management hat for a minute, or not learning management, but my training development hat for a moment, you're gonna want to use the format that helps the learner achieve the outcomes and the objectives the most ideal way.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's uh especially if you have a lot of like memorization or you have a lot of information that's relevant to or relative to like uh memorizing bulleted lists, um uh lots of numbers, any math, anything where there's like formula, anything like that where you have to see things kind of work together.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Video content is almost um impossible to avoid.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can do audio over slide presentation, like you were just talking about, where that information is predict uh is is displayed on like a slide format, and that's fine.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um you just have to be realistic about what you're going to build and what the learner can expect to experience.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I always gear it toward the learner's experience.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have visual elements, even if they're just you know typed element um or printed element, if you don't have any visual element, you are taking away from visual learners.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have some visual element, you have to have some visual element to really serve that market.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have great audio.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you do video, I don't care if you do audio only, you have to have great audio in both cases.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So audio is is the one quality thing you can't you can't uh is non-negotiable.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not expensive.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's not hard to have good audio.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can buy a really good um USB mic, like a like a what I have right here.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or you know, I don't know how much you paid for that one, but like a Yeti blue is$169.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is like$75.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this this mic is like 10 years old.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I've got a nicer mic at home.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually in my other office now, but this one sounds really good.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't have to spend a fortune and and the audio is just non-negotiable.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do a good job at the audio.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So just start with the fact that you're gonna have to show people information somehow, whether it be video or printed or worksheet or download or whatever, or a combination thereof.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna have to have an audio component.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can get through that part, you you're you're well on your way to developing a course.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when it comes to like determining what type of video, it just has to be appropriate.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, your your comment about video length, that's just like a bell in my head because normally I recommend people stay as short in content as possible.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell people set a timer for whatever that uh normal drum beat is gonna be in the course, whether it be 15-minute increments, 20-minute increments, 10-minute increments, whatever it is, try to be consistent.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't mean you can't deviate.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you're gonna have an hour-long video, it better be because it has to be an hour-long video.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you could have broken it up, you should have broken it up.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I have uh an example in this one class where I have to take someone through a process.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that process takes almost an hour to get into and explain every step of the way, like exactly what's happening.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I can break that up or I can leave it together and I have to determine that as a creator of the content if the if the learner benefits from a break or not.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with me.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you, as the course creator, it has nothing to do with you and what you like.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: It has everything to do with what's going to be best for the learner.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a big fan of 20 minutes or less on content unless it's absolutely necessary.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and by the way, micro media, like the shorter videos, are really popular right now.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, in one of my courses, I have a five fundamental building blocks to uh course foundation.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that video is a minute and 47 seconds long.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that video, which tells you which of these five points are, there's a video on each of those points to expand on it, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that if you were just like, I'm not watching any of this other stuff, you're gonna watch a minute and 47 seconds to get the five points.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what you're telling us, Lucas, is that you're gonna become a TikToker.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: The course creator, the TikTok course creator.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen, but well, I know it won't happen on TikTok just because I can't have TikTok, but uh for other reasons.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I'm not I don't think I'm ever gonna be like the king of short short content and short video.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's really funny.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you can combine dance, like dancing and funny cats with course creation, I think you've got a winning combination there.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be a hit.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to find a way to make it work with like with romance, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that like I can write these short uh segments.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: for all the um the rom com readers out there because they're just snatching that stuff up up up left and right you know yeah yeah same thing with like sci-fi readers and there there's every genre I guess has its its really hardcore fans where they will just consume vast quantities of whatever that thing is.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I'm the same way come to think about it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like um analysis videos of movies and stuff like that I just can't get like a Godfather video.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen the Godfather a million times.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have learned about as much about it as I possibly can but I still love it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know I'll still watch a two hour video analyzing the Corleodes or I don't know.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: My guilty pleasure are um our are music reaction videos.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I love them.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those and when they decompose the music like when a musician's decomposed those are cool.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah because I'm a musician so I love like just hearing uh another like songwriter or producer's perspective on like how a song's written it's it's fascinating.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: One of the most interesting videos that I watched over the last few months was uh pop singer Charlie Pooth was on Howard Stern and he was playing a bunch of other artist songs like he did a Bob Dylan song I think he did one or two one or two Bruce Springsteen songs and he was like breaking down what made these songs great it was really cool because he's like a super high tier musician.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know he's he's one of those this is gonna sound like an old man saying this but he's one of these pop stars that you know can actually sing and play real instruments and write songs.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes that is a direct slam against most pop stars probably um but he's like a real bona fide musician and so it was cool to hear him go into super geek mode about here's the Springsteen Spring Bruce Springsteen song that is really cool and here's what makes it great and all that stuff.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So okay back to courses I guess where it's at every time I talk to you I feel like I go off on a tangent because you always you always have so many interesting things to say and it brings up all these interesting little rabbit trails.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I drag you out of the circle I'm like come on let's go talk about no I like it I I love it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so getting comfortable with video and audio that's a pretty key thing yeah um can you talk to us about the delivery mechan mechanisms of courses for example should somebody use something uh like teachable or Kajabi or uh I mean there there's so many other different LMSs out there or should they have it just send it out over email what what how should how would somebody know what course delivery platform to use?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah great question um and by the way your your earlier question about like formatting um and when when I said about the video like you know you can do it just get out there and and practice by the way uh I thought about this after I was speaking but like if you are are very insecure about creating that content just just get some time with it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one has to see it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like just get out there and practice a bit and then have somebody like me or someone else that you trust like Kent or whatever you know just just share some some thoughts on the videos and and and you you might be surprised by like it's not what you think it is.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's you're probably doing a great job.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So why have a learning management system is really what that other the the the the question you just asked is like why would I put it on a learning management system instead of like an email course or even email courses in my opinion should be housed on a learning management system.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Every course you you publish I believe should be on a learning management system.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's several reasons for that one is it's one place it's professional and you have a professional layout for the learner.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they have an easy to navigate dashboard it's not clunky.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can do all kinds of stuff with a learning management system that most websites are not outfitted to handle.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could process payment, enrollment completion certificates I mean the works on a learning management system.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that would be manual or pieced together if you weren't using a learning management system.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kajabi, ThinkIffic, which I I'm I'm a sponsor of or not sponsor, I'm a partner of ThinkIffic as an as a ThinkIffic agent or expert um uh Teachable I've used Matrix, I've used Indie, I've used Blackboard, Canvas, um a couple of others but really what they all come down to is they give you a central place to manage learning content.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those platforms also give you the way to manage your learners group your learners provide them with drip content which is like scheduling releases of information at certain time periods.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's the stuff that an LMS does that a lot of other platforms aren't capable of doing for you.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it also provides some protection.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I've even had like a client in the last month reach out to me and said hey I'm gonna build this course in a learning management system.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to see us see where it's at now and I said sure.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he sent me the signup link with a discount coupon so I can enroll for free.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I enrolled and I got an email with a downloadable video.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought oh my gosh what are you doing dude?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can give this to anyone I can modify it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can post it on my web I can do anything I want with this because I have your file right like I have a video file.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Same with like his workbook he sent me a PDF that wasn't secured like it wasn't locked.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I could just do whatever I wanted with it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I could misrepresent his stuff I could rob it I could do anything.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not the kind of person to do that stuff but there are people out there who do.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a super like computer snob and you're saying well you technically can't protect any video from being ripped on any site you're you're correct.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But like 99% of the population either doesn't know how to do that or isn't going to do that and they're not going to sell your stuff on the black market.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But part of it to me is just representing your brand and the quality of what you present especially if you want to charge any type of considerable fees for your course like I'm not gonna pay a couple of hundred dollars or more to take a course that someone sends me in like a downloadable file and it's like a mess because chances are there's 30 of those.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be one video.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a whole course and everything's put in a ro in order do you have quizzes embedded in there do you have assignments with the ability to deposit assignments in the system and have the the instructor notified and respond to the assignment and resubmit it to you like all these things happen in a learning management system that make the learning management system the logical choice for housing a course.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a short list.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of lots of things to consider there.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah and there's there's way more than I'm saying but just trust me in in the fact that I I've had a learning management system since I started doing this for a reason.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't imagine trying to do this without it because I'd have to have put so many different pieces of tech together to make it like that make it work like that that it would just be too cumbersome to make worth my while so someone has created a course they have put it in a learning management system they're excited about it but then you have to market and sell it not necessarily in that order I guess well I guess in that order.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Any tips that you would offer to authors who they want to create a course but when it comes to the marketing and sales aspect of it that that maybe seems stressful or maybe seems out of their range.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So any tips?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah actually uh the so this all to me starts before you start creating the course you need to make a good business justification for it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the five fundamentals of course foundation development that I teach are like identify your learner identify what problem they have that you're gonna help them solve with your course identify the solution to their problem that's the thing you're gonna provide them in the course identify the value and feasibility of that outcome like how is it how probable it is that it achieved this outcome after they've taken your course and then um what's the value of that outcome to them you're gonna need that for your pricing structure.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then the fifth one is all the objectives that it takes to reach that outcome.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like what does this person actually have to do to get that type of outcome and how do I put that in the curriculum so this helps you do your curriculum outline you take your outline from your book you take that you put it together you kind of do a little bit of and then you go okay what do I need to do to sell this thing?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like who's gonna buy it?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where is this ideal learner?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have a head you have a head start on other people if you've already written a book because you should have done a lot of this thinking when you wrote your book, right?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like who am I selling this book to it's probably either the same person or very close to who you're gonna sell the course to um and you can start thinking about how you're going to put these two products into your business to work together.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to reference the the course in the book right in an in an in a revision of the book or whatever.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna want to maybe poll your community and say hey look for those that have enjoyed my course how or my book how would you feel if I had this in a course would you like that would that be something you'd be interested in you can gauge people's interest um don't make any promises at that point just talk to people and then what you want to do is you want to start building a marketing plan just like you should have done for your book right so you want to talk about like I'm gonna release the course on this date you can host webinars to help get awareness on the course you can host workshops where you take a piece of the course and you break that out you help people actually go do something with that information and then you say hey look by the way a whole lot of the other stuff you're curious about is in the course why don't you enroll here's a discount thanks for the workshop attendance um you've got all different ways you can do this you can create a special community simply around that product nurture that community sell the course to that community or include the course and the subscription to that community you've got all these different ways you can incorporate the course into like marketing and promotions in your business.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now the one thing you do have to do and this is no different than the book is you have to be the one actively marketing and promoting your book like or your course there's no way around it you have to be consistent in telling people about it.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Mention it or advertise it in your newsletters um don't be spamsy or salesy no one no one likes that but you can take segments of your course material publish blog articles on it embed a link to the course in the bottom of the blog article and say hey there's more more to come check out the course here there's all different ways you can do it but the reality is you have to start thinking about the marketing and promotion part early you don't have to be married to a certain strategy but you have to think about it early because this is part of your business justification for having investing in the course development and then rolling that out um and you're gonna market it and sell it just like your book.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: In fact every time you go talk about one you're gonna talk about the other that's one of the beautiful things about having a course with the book or other products that are related to your book is that you can do a lot of cross promo.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really fun.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And again Honore has been the one who taught me about marketing books.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know I've been marketing and promoting courses for years but marketing a book when when I was learning more about that I'm like yep yep yep yeah I mean it's like this is great that we have the opportunity to like you said cross promote.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's just so many different ways that you can learn from promoting and marketing your book and roll those same lessons into marketing and promoting your your course.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you you are at a benefit or an advantage I should say if you've been promoting your book for a while and you've learned lessons from that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow a lot of good stuff here um and of course you dive more deeply into all this in your book and will there be a course with your book?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes there is a course with the book.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I have um if you're someone that has written a book and you're interested in um learning more about specifically about how to take your book and and turn it into a course I have a course named Monetize your book with a course which is shares the same name as the book that's coming out February 27th.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a course if you're not interested in publishing a book which I don't know why you'd be listening to Kent's right I don't like somebody's listening going I hate books and reading it so dumb.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if by the off chance you aren't interested in the book aspect of it I do have a course strictly dedicated to teaching people how to build online courses and that's called Build Your Online Course.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's that simple you can find both of those at um at marinotraining calm all right cool Lucas thanks for your friendship for your wisdom for your insights and also for being a guest today in that order thanks Ken particularly because you know the the value that you bring to the world is it's so multifaceted and you know podcast guesting is only one small thing among a whole range of really cool things that you do.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you taking time to share your wisdom with us and of course I'll have a link in the show notes to your website and the book and all those cool things.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again this has been a blast.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that Kent thank you so much for the opportunity and I would be a crazy person if I didn't leave here promoting the Daily Writers group.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So well thank you.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am a member and if you guys haven't checked out Kent's Daily Writers group I highly encourage you to check it out because it has been uh absolutely uh wonderful experience for me since I joined last year and um it's just it's just fantastic.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So go check it out.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well thank you and I didn't even pay you to say that you didn't so thank you it's been a blast.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we'll just uh we'll we'll exchange like dollars in a dark corner or something under the table.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right thanks so much.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks Ken many thanks to Dr.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lucas Marino for being a guest on today's episode I learned a ton about creating a course from your book and I hope that you took notes because he shared a ton of wisdom about not just the processes of how to do this but why you should do it and how you can monetize your book with a course.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to encourage you to check out his website marinotraining.com as well as grab his brand new book Monetize Your Book with a Course there will be links in the show notes.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: As always thanks for listening I so appreciate your time and I will see you in the next episode