Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Tot boy Lucas Hernandez stepmother dead: Suicide or homicide?

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Tot boy Lucas Hernandez stepmother dead: Suicide or homicide? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel one thirty two. A five year old
1:03
Speaker 1: top boy goes missing after three long months. Really on
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Speaker 1: a whim, a private investigator decides to take the stepmother
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Speaker 1: out for a drive, a long drive. Then, after hours
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Speaker 1: and hours of seemingly driving through the countryside aimlessly, step
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Speaker 1: mommy leads him directly to the spot where the little
1:31
Speaker 1: boy's body is found under a bridge and a washed
1:35
Speaker 1: out culvert. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
1:38
Speaker 1: you for being with us. The mystery only intensifying in
1:43
Speaker 1: the last days as that stepmother walks free then shoots herself.
1:50
Speaker 1: But why what does that tell us about the investigation?
1:55
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. My biggest question is where
1:58
Speaker 1: did she get the gun? We pretty much nailed that
2:02
Speaker 1: down that there was no gun in the ass. I
2:05
Speaker 1: told Jonathan, and I told Jamie stay away. Let's say
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Speaker 1: someone did this to Emiley, or Emily does it to herself,
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Speaker 1: You're going to be the first suspects, so stay away.
2:15
Speaker 1: That is probably investigator David Marshburn, who manages to finangle
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Speaker 1: the stepmother Emily Glass into the car for a long,
2:23
Speaker 1: long drive, during which she divulges the location a little
2:28
Speaker 1: tot Lucas Hernandez's dead body out in the middle of nowhere.
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Speaker 1: How would she know that unless she put the top
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Speaker 1: there herself. He could hardly even tell what he was seeing.
2:43
Speaker 1: I've looked carefully at the photos and I couldn't either.
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Speaker 1: The little boy's dark brown hair had been bleached white
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Speaker 1: in the elements. You could hardly even see his body
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Speaker 1: amidst the sticks and the weeds and the re caught
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Speaker 1: in an erosion pan in that culvert, that little body
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Speaker 1: in with all that debris for three long months. Will
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Speaker 1: we ever know what happened? I find that very very
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Speaker 1: odd to Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder of child
3:18
Speaker 1: crime watch dot com. At the private investigator, who I
3:22
Speaker 1: give all the credit to all the credit for getting
3:26
Speaker 1: Emily Glass on secretly recorded audio as he's driving her around,
3:32
Speaker 1: He's taping everything she said. Uh, Ashley, for the same
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Speaker 1: p I to say, you know, I warned them she
3:40
Speaker 1: might kill herself. And I'm not trying to say the
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Speaker 1: p I didn't. Of course he did not. He's in
3:45
Speaker 1: another state now, But to tell them, if you go
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Speaker 1: to this home I'm talking about lucass mom and dad,
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Speaker 1: she may kill herself and you'll be a suspect and
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Speaker 1: low ahold. She is found shot dead and Lucas's father
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Speaker 1: finds her. What a weird set of circumstances and what
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Speaker 1: foreshadowing by the p I. So first of all, it's
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Speaker 1: reported that she allegedly killed herself. The father comes home,
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Speaker 1: I think it is that like one in the morning
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Speaker 1: and finds her. So the first question is where was
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Speaker 1: he as he staying there. We already been Next Nancy,
4:21
Speaker 1: we need to think about the fact that she was
4:24
Speaker 1: absolutely involved in this child's death because she knew where
4:27
Speaker 1: the child was located. But we still do not know
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Speaker 1: what happened to Lucas, and so the law enforcement investigation
4:34
Speaker 1: is crucial to figure out what's really happened. Whoa wait
4:37
Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on?
4:40
Speaker 1: She Lee Egan with me, investigative reporter with crime online
4:44
Speaker 1: dot Com, where we have this story and all other
4:48
Speaker 1: breaking criminal needs and justice to Lee. Who was living
4:53
Speaker 1: in the home? That was a question Joseph's got Morgan
4:55
Speaker 1: was posing earlier. Were they both still living there? I
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Speaker 1: don't think. I think it was Emily alone. I'm not
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Speaker 1: sure why or how Jonathan ut to go over there
5:05
Speaker 1: that night, but he did. I'm not I've not heard
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Speaker 1: that heat was there? Her heat last shortly after she
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Speaker 1: was released from jail the second time. Okay, I don't
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Speaker 1: understand a lot of facts here and there. Their critical
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Speaker 1: number one who owned the home? Where did they own it?
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Speaker 1: Did they buy it together? Were they renting it? If
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Speaker 1: they were renting it and it's under his name, why
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Speaker 1: is she going back there, and why is he going
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Speaker 1: over there at one forty A m Um, I don't
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Speaker 1: like it. Let me hear that. Let me hear David
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Speaker 1: Marshburn one more time, Um, Alan please, My biggest question
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Speaker 1: is where did she get the gun? We pretty much
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Speaker 1: nailed that down that there was no gun in the ass.
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Speaker 1: I told Jonathan and I told Jamie stay away. Let's
5:53
Speaker 1: say someone did this to Emily, or Emily does it
5:55
Speaker 1: to herself, You're going to be the first suspect, So
5:58
Speaker 1: stay away. Okay, where did she get the gun? To
6:02
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert Joe Scott, the home has
6:07
Speaker 1: been searched, the cars who have been searched, the curtilage,
6:11
Speaker 1: which is your yard and your ship and your storage unit,
6:13
Speaker 1: and blah blah. Everything else around your home is your curtilage.
6:17
Speaker 1: Everything had been searched multiple times when they were looking
6:20
Speaker 1: for Lucas. When she was busted on driving high on
6:25
Speaker 1: pot with a kid in the car. By her own account,
6:27
Speaker 1: she was found not guilty on that that home had
6:30
Speaker 1: been searched and searched and searched. Nobody in their right
6:33
Speaker 1: mind would have given her a gun. Was was this
6:36
Speaker 1: a long gun? Joe Scott. Yeah, from what I understand, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: the reports are saying that there was a what they're
6:42
Speaker 1: calling a rifle laying at her feet. Okay, wait wait stop,
6:46
Speaker 1: sorry sorry sorry, A long gun? A long gun? How
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Speaker 1: in the hey we're talking about a rifle or shotgun?
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Speaker 1: How in the hey do you kill yourself off with
7:01
Speaker 1: a rifle? It's it can be kind of difficult, and well, yeah,
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Speaker 1: a lot of it. A lot of it's going to
7:12
Speaker 1: be depended upon how long your arms are. I don't
7:15
Speaker 1: really know how big this woman is, but she has
7:18
Speaker 1: to position herself. She would have to position herself in
7:21
Speaker 1: a position where she could actually actuate the trigger and
7:24
Speaker 1: place the muzzle either in her chest or some other
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Speaker 1: lethal area of her body, and pull the trigger. I
7:30
Speaker 1: worked cases where people have used their thumbs. I've used
7:33
Speaker 1: cases where people have used their toes in order to
7:36
Speaker 1: initiate the trigger on a long weapon. Cat. I'm very
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Speaker 1: twisted around on how physically that happened. I'm having a
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Speaker 1: very difficult time imagining how Emily Glass shot herself with
7:52
Speaker 1: a long gun. Um. Now, I have personally been involved
7:57
Speaker 1: with cases where someone it was a man, because we
8:02
Speaker 1: know statistically women don't usually shoot themselves, especially in the head.
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Speaker 1: It's broken down by race, by gender, by age, by
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Speaker 1: socio economic level, the method and assessment of who suicide.
8:19
Speaker 1: And it's rare that a woman in her and all
8:24
Speaker 1: of her categories that fit her will shoot themselves. Never
8:28
Speaker 1: in the face, but maybe in the chest. But in
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Speaker 1: case I I was involved with Joe Scott, the person
8:35
Speaker 1: the man rigged the shotgun to shoot him. He could
8:39
Speaker 1: do it with his toe. Okay, now that is not
8:42
Speaker 1: apparently what happened here. Now, how in the world does
8:46
Speaker 1: she shoot herself with a rifle? I think that it
8:48
Speaker 1: can be difficult. Sometimes. What you will find is that
8:52
Speaker 1: the butt of the weapon, that is, the area where
8:55
Speaker 1: the weapon actually fits into the shoulder, will be placed
8:58
Speaker 1: between where the wall on the floor joined. The weapon
9:02
Speaker 1: is then leaned into that is the muzzle, and you
9:06
Speaker 1: have to extend your hand generally your right hand depended
9:09
Speaker 1: upon what dominant hand to use, and press the trigger
9:13
Speaker 1: at that point in time. It takes some work to do,
9:16
Speaker 1: but it can be done. I've even seen people actually
9:19
Speaker 1: the trigger with a string before. So there's a lot
9:22
Speaker 1: of stuff to kind of unpack here. It's not typical.
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Speaker 1: I want to know why she had a weapon, why
9:28
Speaker 1: she had access to the weapon, And I think, as
9:31
Speaker 1: an investigator, one of the things I would want to
9:34
Speaker 1: know because it does give one pause. Uh, it has
9:39
Speaker 1: been implied, you know extensively that she has direct knowledge
9:44
Speaker 1: of this kid's death, of Lucas's death. Why in the
9:48
Speaker 1: hell is the dad going to the home where this
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Speaker 1: woman is so closely linked to the death of his son.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. At approximate one am on Friday,
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Speaker 1: Glass's boyfriend, thirty four year old Jonathan Hernandez to report
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Speaker 1: arriving home and finding Glass dead. Officers discovered a rifle
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Speaker 1: near her feet and three suicide notes in the residence,
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Speaker 1: again address being sixty five South Edgemore. Glass's body is
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Speaker 1: at the Regional Forensic Science Center and the case number
10:34
Speaker 1: of this ongoing investigation is eight CREE seven. Glass had
10:41
Speaker 1: been questioned in the disappearance and death of five year
10:44
Speaker 1: old Lucas Hernandez, the son of Jonathan. On ma she
10:49
Speaker 1: was booked into the Sedgel County Jail for felony obstruction
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Speaker 1: of justice after leading a private investigator to Lucas's body
10:57
Speaker 1: under a bridge in South Harvey County. Lucas had been
11:02
Speaker 1: missing since February. The homicide investigation into Lucas's death is
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Speaker 1: also ongoing. In the case number regarding his death as
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Speaker 1: a ten C one O six nine. There's so many
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Speaker 1: unanswered questions right now. What happened to the stepmother Emily Glass?
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Speaker 1: You know? Um to Susan Constantine, psychologist, author of the
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Speaker 1: Complete Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language. You can find
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Speaker 1: her at Susan Constantine dot com and her book Idiot's
11:33
Speaker 1: Guide to Reading Body Languages on Amazon dot com. Which
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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Susan. Your book is awesome
11:39
Speaker 1: and I was with you in person just the other
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Speaker 1: day out at Hallmark's Home and Family show listening to
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Speaker 1: you explain how to determine if someone is lying. You
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Speaker 1: crystallized so much that I think some people know intuitively
12:02
Speaker 1: they know it, but they don't know it. And the
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Speaker 1: way you explained it made so much sense. Um. I
12:10
Speaker 1: was watching the Hallmark movie last night, and you know,
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Speaker 1: there's the part where Helly is trying to determine if
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Speaker 1: somebody's lying, and they were watching the body language and
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Speaker 1: they're listening to the inflection of people who are giving
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Speaker 1: police statements. Now, you have listened very carefully, gone over
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Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb, Emily Glass and those secretly
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Speaker 1: recorded tapes made by private investigator David Marshburn. I'm trying
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Speaker 1: to reconcile Susan her death by long gun shotgun with
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Speaker 1: what you know? What did you determine? What were your
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Speaker 1: findings after listening to those hours and hours of audio. Well,
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Speaker 1: there's no doubt in my mind, with a high level
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Speaker 1: of certainty, that she did abuse and kill the sun.
13:04
Speaker 1: There's no doubt in my mind. The text that is
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Speaker 1: clearly lays out every single word, as I shared with
13:10
Speaker 1: you on the show and also on ther other show.
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Speaker 1: Every word was put there because the person who's speaking
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Speaker 1: it uh is speaking from subconscious, so every word they
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Speaker 1: say has meaning. Okay, right there, wait a minute, White
13:24
Speaker 1: a minute with me. Is former Kansas social worker Laurie,
13:29
Speaker 1: and we're using that name. Joe's got Morgan asked she
13:33
Speaker 1: willcott Lee Egan. Now you are like a warp speed
13:38
Speaker 1: ahead of us, stays in constantine, and what you're saying,
13:40
Speaker 1: let me just speak for everybody, since they didn't ask
13:42
Speaker 1: me to what do you mean speaking from your subconscious?
13:46
Speaker 1: This is starting to sound like oh, psychobabble, and I
13:50
Speaker 1: know you better than that. You gotta break it down
13:52
Speaker 1: for us, Okay, okay, yes, I I truly can so.
13:55
Speaker 1: In other words, what happens is that when somebody is
13:57
Speaker 1: speaking about an event and you asked them what happened,
14:01
Speaker 1: we're listening for is where that event actually happened in
14:04
Speaker 1: their mind. We're trying to understand from their mind how
14:08
Speaker 1: they pictured that event, and then they actually choose the
14:12
Speaker 1: words they say and how they perceive it. And that's
14:15
Speaker 1: where it's coming from the subconscious. The subconscious is what's
14:19
Speaker 1: already stored in their memory bank, and when you ask
14:22
Speaker 1: a question, they are naturally going to speak what is
14:27
Speaker 1: the most important thing to them in order. And that's
14:30
Speaker 1: just the way the brain works. How was your day
14:33
Speaker 1: to day? And if somebody says it was good, that
14:36
Speaker 1: most people will say, well, this is what happened and
14:39
Speaker 1: this is what caused my day to be that way.
14:41
Speaker 1: So we always know that what first comes out, that
14:45
Speaker 1: first sentence that somebody says, is the most crucial because
14:49
Speaker 1: that gives the reason for the event. Take wait, wait, wait,
14:53
Speaker 1: Jeff Scott, this is a yes. No, did you understand that? Okay? Sorry,
14:59
Speaker 1: say what he's saying, you can't help. But if you're brilliant, Susan, guys,
15:03
Speaker 1: don't hate her because she's brilliant. Wait a minute, I
15:06
Speaker 1: think what she's saying is it. The answer comes out.
15:09
Speaker 1: It may not be exactly what you ask, but what
15:12
Speaker 1: that person is thinking is going to come out no
15:15
Speaker 1: matter what question you ask. And the most important thing
15:18
Speaker 1: can often come at the beginning, because that is what's
15:21
Speaker 1: foremost in their minds. I think, is what she's saying.
15:24
Speaker 1: Tell me what that means about Emily Glass. What did
15:27
Speaker 1: you learn that well? For example, is that the comment
15:31
Speaker 1: that she had made about the abuse that she was
15:35
Speaker 1: saying that let me go back to it. I'm going
15:36
Speaker 1: to pull it up right now. She says the most
15:38
Speaker 1: important statement of all when she says, I did Lucas
15:41
Speaker 1: so wrong? And we talked about that I as a
15:44
Speaker 1: first person pronoun. We know that I is linked to
15:47
Speaker 1: tom ownership and truthfulness. So she takes ownership I and
15:51
Speaker 1: then she uses the word did did as an act
15:54
Speaker 1: and then Lucas is the victim, and then she mentioned
15:57
Speaker 1: so she says, for example, I did Lucas so wrong,
16:02
Speaker 1: so meaning like it's like Nancy might be saying, I
16:05
Speaker 1: haven't seen you in so long. Hello, It's so nice
16:09
Speaker 1: to see how it's been so long. So is is
16:11
Speaker 1: associated with a length of time. And then she uses
16:16
Speaker 1: the word wrong. She chose those words, no one else
16:19
Speaker 1: chose them for her. She put him in she's the
16:21
Speaker 1: one that spoke him, and the word wrong is the abuse.
16:24
Speaker 1: And then she says, I feel so sorry for him,
16:27
Speaker 1: and this is her Her voice does show um and
16:31
Speaker 1: sounds that there's remorse here because she actually starts to
16:33
Speaker 1: cry a little bit, and then um, she says, this
16:37
Speaker 1: is the God's honest truth. So that's also an affirmation,
16:40
Speaker 1: but it's also associated with deception. Honestly, you know, uh,
16:45
Speaker 1: you know, I swear to God, et cetera. But you
16:48
Speaker 1: put those words together in order. I did Lucas so wrong.
16:52
Speaker 1: It's very clearly lays out that she caused you abuse,
16:56
Speaker 1: and it happened over time, it wasn't just the first time.
16:59
Speaker 1: That is the of what we're looking at right now
17:02
Speaker 1: here on crime Stories with an all star lineup. Lori
17:06
Speaker 1: going by that name former Kansas social workers Susan Constantine,
17:10
Speaker 1: renowned psychologist and author regarding body language forensics, expert from
17:16
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott, Morgan Ashley Wilcott found a
17:20
Speaker 1: child crime watch dot Com investigative reporter with crime online
17:24
Speaker 1: dot Com. Lee Egan, of course, Alan Duke, and Jackie
17:27
Speaker 1: Howard with me. What we're talking about is what happened
17:31
Speaker 1: to Emily Glass? Is the plot thickening? No one is
17:36
Speaker 1: a suspect. Everybody's a suspect. We don't have a cause
17:40
Speaker 1: of death yet, but the circumstances surrounding her shooting death
17:44
Speaker 1: are highly questionable. But listen as we try to determine
17:50
Speaker 1: her state of mind to what Susan Constantine is talking about. Listen,
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19:21
Speaker 1: your own name get started. The stunning and bizarre turn
19:32
Speaker 1: of events with the step mother of Lucas Hernandez found
19:36
Speaker 1: dead in the home whose home wasn't who lived there?
19:41
Speaker 1: Was its suicide? If so, it's highly impractical that she
19:46
Speaker 1: should could shoot herself with a rifle. I mean, think
19:49
Speaker 1: about the barrel is what Joe's got, Morgan with me
19:52
Speaker 1: forensics expert. The barrel is you know at least two
19:56
Speaker 1: two ft long or longer? Yeah? Yeah, quite fully, Nancy,
20:00
Speaker 1: deepening upon the weapon, and then you have to hold
20:03
Speaker 1: it backwards pointed at yourself, and then I guess pull
20:07
Speaker 1: the trigger with your thumb while holding the butt with
20:13
Speaker 1: your other four fingers. It's gonna be very physically difficult,
20:19
Speaker 1: especially if she was in a suicidal frame of mind
20:22
Speaker 1: to pull that off. What more do we know, Lee
20:26
Speaker 1: Eagan regarding the discovery of her body, Well, we know
20:29
Speaker 1: that someone in the neighborhood said that she heard the
20:33
Speaker 1: gun shot at around midnight. There was also reportings of
20:36
Speaker 1: a drive by shooting at the same time, so police
20:39
Speaker 1: are unclear exactly when the gun shot was heard, but
20:43
Speaker 1: going by when Jonathan discovered her, it would have been
20:46
Speaker 1: around so we're still unclear exactly when it happened. We
20:52
Speaker 1: also just learned that from the Witchtop police officer Charlie
20:57
Speaker 1: Davidson says that there were three three suicide notes found
21:02
Speaker 1: at the house there at six Edge. More interesting, Emily
21:07
Speaker 1: glass found by Jonathan Hernandez as Lucas's father around one
21:12
Speaker 1: forty in the morning. Why did he come over? Why
21:15
Speaker 1: was he there? A lot of questions hanging in the
21:18
Speaker 1: air right now. We are waiting on the autopsy report.
21:22
Speaker 1: Big question right now is the prior abuse on Lucas Hernandez.
21:34
Speaker 1: Who knew what with me? Is Lori and we're going
21:38
Speaker 1: by that name former Kansas social worker Lorie. I don't
21:44
Speaker 1: understand how so many red flags were waived and nothing
21:50
Speaker 1: was done. Now Lucas is dead exactly. I know that
21:55
Speaker 1: in Wichita they have so many cases of abuse and neglect,
22:00
Speaker 1: and sometimes people just look the other way, and I
22:03
Speaker 1: honestly believe that it's probably what happened with Lucas. But
22:08
Speaker 1: it was time after time after time relatives from other
22:11
Speaker 1: states were sounding the alarm. I mean, how could you
22:14
Speaker 1: look the other way? Not you, but how could anybody?
22:17
Speaker 1: I think, because some people don't take their job suriously.
22:21
Speaker 1: Another question, who knew what about the prior abuse on
22:26
Speaker 1: the Lucas. Listen to the father, Jonathan her Nandez. She
22:31
Speaker 1: she said that, you know, she woke up from a
22:33
Speaker 1: nap and I guess called for Lucas, called his name
22:37
Speaker 1: out and didn't hear anything. Back, went and looked in
22:40
Speaker 1: his room and he was not there. So she turned around,
22:44
Speaker 1: and his room is off the kitchen, and so is
22:46
Speaker 1: the back door. So she said that when she looked
22:49
Speaker 1: in his room, didn't see him, turn around and saw
22:51
Speaker 1: that the back door was a jar. Then she had,
22:56
Speaker 1: like I guess, ran out in a panic looking for him.
22:58
Speaker 1: But also went over to the Brice house ask that
23:00
Speaker 1: they had seen him and then called nine one one
23:04
Speaker 1: or asked the neighbors to call the nine won something
23:06
Speaker 1: of that. Oh, we we did not. I I honestly
23:13
Speaker 1: didn't even try to search, only after speaking with the
23:19
Speaker 1: detectives and explained to them I don't think he would
23:22
Speaker 1: have wondered off, So I don't believe that he is
23:25
Speaker 1: wondering around. And also they had told me they haven't.
23:29
Speaker 1: They didn't at the time have any leads as far
23:32
Speaker 1: as the tracking dogs following any sense that had left
23:36
Speaker 1: the residence on foot. You're listening to the sound of
23:41
Speaker 1: me discussing this with Lucas's own father, the bio Dad,
23:45
Speaker 1: who was out of town at the time. Lucas goes
23:47
Speaker 1: missing Jonathan Hernandez, but he was on the scene and
23:50
Speaker 1: actually called nine one to report Emily Glass has been shot.
23:55
Speaker 1: So Susan Constantine, author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to
23:58
Speaker 1: Reading Body Language on Amazon, Susan, what do you make
24:01
Speaker 1: of what you just heard the of the dad? Okay, well,
24:04
Speaker 1: lots of things. Okay, let's start out with the change
24:07
Speaker 1: of what we call pronouns. You hear this pausing and hesitation,
24:12
Speaker 1: and then we hear uh we we I I shows
24:17
Speaker 1: conflict between the two. For example, he more than likely
24:22
Speaker 1: wanted to go out and look, and that's where the
24:25
Speaker 1: we we came in from. But then apparently she doesn't,
24:29
Speaker 1: and that's where the I I comes in from. And
24:31
Speaker 1: then he says that he he didn't even try to
24:35
Speaker 1: start looking, So try is an attempted failure. So all
24:39
Speaker 1: of it when you kind of look at this entire context,
24:42
Speaker 1: you're listening to the pausing, the hesitations that he's going
24:47
Speaker 1: out to go look for Lucas, that he's just not
24:50
Speaker 1: just running around. He's constantly making excuses for Emily. The
24:56
Speaker 1: question is why, because he seems to take a passive
24:59
Speaker 1: role throughout the entire interview. Nancy, this is Ashley. Can
25:03
Speaker 1: I add something about that piece and statistics and what
25:06
Speaker 1: I see as a judge will do that all the time.
25:09
Speaker 1: This is what infuriates me. Partner's boyfriend's girlfriend's husband spouses
25:14
Speaker 1: wives that abused children. The partner in the home knows it,
25:19
Speaker 1: sees it, thees the bruises and doesn't do anything about it. Why,
25:24
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can just tell you that that's
25:26
Speaker 1: a problem. Well, here's the thing. Let me defend him
25:31
Speaker 1: regarding some of this. I remember my dad had to
25:35
Speaker 1: be gone all the time with the railroad, okay. And
25:40
Speaker 1: the crazy thing was he never knew a schedule, Ashley Willcott,
25:44
Speaker 1: and he would drive a hundred miles to a job
25:48
Speaker 1: one night, then he drive fifty miles the next night,
25:50
Speaker 1: then drive ten miles the next night. We never knew
25:54
Speaker 1: what night he would be gone, what day he would
25:56
Speaker 1: be gone, when he could get work. Before he got
26:00
Speaker 1: into a regular pattern. He was like that for several years,
26:03
Speaker 1: just doing anything to hold on to a job. Right.
26:07
Speaker 1: So it was hard I'm sure for my mom and
26:10
Speaker 1: the three of us without my dad there. Now, think
26:13
Speaker 1: about this guy, Jonathan her Nandez having to be aways
26:17
Speaker 1: involved in the oil business for weeks on end, away
26:22
Speaker 1: like on an oil rig. Nothing you can do about it, right,
26:25
Speaker 1: your that's your job. Either either you don't work or
26:29
Speaker 1: you have to be away from home. And that, according
26:32
Speaker 1: to what we've learned, is when the abuse would occur,
26:35
Speaker 1: not while he was there. Now, the other day we
26:40
Speaker 1: had with us two of Emily Glasses friends. They seemed
26:45
Speaker 1: to point the finger at Jonathan Hernandez as the one
26:49
Speaker 1: who was abusing Lucas before his death. But that's not
26:54
Speaker 1: exactly That's not what the police report showed. To my understanding,
26:57
Speaker 1: Lee Egan. If you look back at the DCS reports,
27:00
Speaker 1: I personally don't see how he could not have known
27:02
Speaker 1: exactly now right now I'm talking about doing it. Did.
27:06
Speaker 1: I don't see how he could have been the one
27:08
Speaker 1: beating the boy. I don't see it. Hey, look if
27:12
Speaker 1: it's him, to h E double l with him if
27:15
Speaker 1: it's him. But I don't see that it's him, because
27:19
Speaker 1: he seemed, from what I can see, to be gone
27:23
Speaker 1: out of town when Lucas is abused and the relatives
27:27
Speaker 1: were honing in on Emily Glass, not him. Am I
27:31
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, tell me. I care more about the
27:33
Speaker 1: truth and being right. Just tell me, no, you're You're correct.
27:37
Speaker 1: What I was saying was, I don't think that he
27:39
Speaker 1: was completely unaware of it. He There's no way he
27:42
Speaker 1: could have been, because he was home during times when
27:45
Speaker 1: police were called to the house and it had to
27:48
Speaker 1: do with a lot of violence and between apparently both
27:51
Speaker 1: of them, according to the reports. So I just don't
27:53
Speaker 1: see how he could just be completely in the dark
27:56
Speaker 1: over what she was doing. You know. That's an interesting
27:59
Speaker 1: thing to Ashley Wilcott, founder of child Crime watch dot com.
28:03
Speaker 1: Ashley having worked as a volunteer at the Battered Women's
28:07
Speaker 1: Center for nine years at night while I was prosecuting
28:10
Speaker 1: felonies during the day. Very often, when you have domestic
28:15
Speaker 1: abuse between the mom and the dad, you'll find abuse
28:19
Speaker 1: on the children too. Not always, but it happens frequently.
28:23
Speaker 1: Why is it just the the the atmosphere of violence. Yeah,
28:28
Speaker 1: I think absolutely. And if you have someone who's gonna
28:30
Speaker 1: abuse as a spouse, they're also as likely to abuse
28:33
Speaker 1: a child. I don't think they have the capacity to
28:36
Speaker 1: say I'm gonna abuse one and not the other. It
28:38
Speaker 1: goes all around the house. To our expert, Laurie, former
28:42
Speaker 1: Kansas social worker Laurie, I'd like to get your insight
28:45
Speaker 1: into the what happened to lucas This is just my
28:50
Speaker 1: non professional opinion. I think at the the end, this
28:54
Speaker 1: is my thought because of the date that they said
28:57
Speaker 1: maybe he might have passed away and lucas Um and
29:02
Speaker 1: Emily and Jonathan were together. I think that Emily and
29:07
Speaker 1: Emily and Jonathan had gotten to an argument, and I
29:10
Speaker 1: think that lucas Um he got hurt, and I think
29:15
Speaker 1: that he was killed that weekend, that that Jonathan left
29:19
Speaker 1: to go back to Mexico or to Texas to work,
29:22
Speaker 1: and I think that is the weekend that he was
29:25
Speaker 1: hurt and killed. And that now, I mean, you're saying
29:28
Speaker 1: that they were together when he was hurt, but you're
29:30
Speaker 1: also saying he was away when Lucas was hurt. And
29:33
Speaker 1: let's not put perfume on the pig. He wasn't hurt.
29:35
Speaker 1: He was killed. Yeah, he was killed, and then he
29:37
Speaker 1: left after that. You're you're saying you think Jonathan the
29:40
Speaker 1: dad was home at the time the boy was killed. Yes,
29:43
Speaker 1: I do. I don't think that. Why Why would you
29:46
Speaker 1: say that, Laurie. I mean, you're closer to it the
29:48
Speaker 1: week Because of the timeline and the way that I
29:53
Speaker 1: see his demeanor and everything that's happened, I think that
29:57
Speaker 1: he's hit a lot and he's lied a lot, and
30:00
Speaker 1: I think from the get go with his media interview
30:03
Speaker 1: with k wh and his actions and attitude, I think
30:08
Speaker 1: he's hit a lot. And I think that now that
30:10
Speaker 1: Emily is gone, I think he's going to have to
30:12
Speaker 1: come clean. Lorie, What do you mean by that? I'm
30:15
Speaker 1: saying that nobody. Nobody knows exactly what Dave. Jonathan went
30:19
Speaker 1: back to work from his to his job. So even
30:24
Speaker 1: though the neighbor boys said that he's seen Lucas on
30:28
Speaker 1: the eleventh or the eleventh or twelve, well, I still
30:33
Speaker 1: say in my gut that Jonathan still helped with the
30:38
Speaker 1: disposal of Lucas's body. That's that's an interesting take, Lee Egan.
30:43
Speaker 1: You have been there, you have investigated. You've been at
30:47
Speaker 1: the home, We've been in the neighborhood, you've been at
30:48
Speaker 1: the jail, You've been everywhere. Lee, I think at the
30:52
Speaker 1: most right now, he turned a blind eye to abuse
30:56
Speaker 1: on his child because you know, like, for instance, when
30:59
Speaker 1: you're man, you think your your spouse is cheating, but
31:02
Speaker 1: you don't know, and you explain things away, like where's
31:06
Speaker 1: your husband. He's working late right, Yeah, it's Friday night. Yeah, yeah,
31:10
Speaker 1: he's got a deal to close. Hello, he's sacked up
31:13
Speaker 1: in a hotel with somebody. Okay. So you don't want
31:16
Speaker 1: to know. You choose to believe the person because you
31:19
Speaker 1: love the person. You want to think good about the person.
31:22
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the facts, the evidence. It's the only
31:26
Speaker 1: thing that's gonna get us through this Lee. I don't
31:29
Speaker 1: think Lorie's theory fits with the facts. I I mean,
31:32
Speaker 1: am I wrong? I thought the dad was gone when
31:35
Speaker 1: Lucas went missing. No, I think you're correct, because there
31:39
Speaker 1: is one witness that is credible and seeing Lucas before
31:45
Speaker 1: the seventeen. He was a neighbor that was the right
31:47
Speaker 1: across the street and his son, his children played with
31:52
Speaker 1: Lucas and his two brothers on February eleven. That would
31:56
Speaker 1: put Jonathan not there, because Jonathan left to go to
31:58
Speaker 1: work on the Now, this person has went on camera,
32:02
Speaker 1: he's given several interviews that the story has never changed.
32:05
Speaker 1: He saw Lucas, he described him perfectly. So I don't
32:08
Speaker 1: believe Jonathan was there when it happened. I mean, I
32:12
Speaker 1: could be wrong. That's just now. No, I think you're right.
32:15
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. This is Jonathan her Nandez,
32:19
Speaker 1: Lucas's dad talking to me, telling me what went through
32:24
Speaker 1: his mind and his heart and his body when he
32:28
Speaker 1: learned Lucas was missing. I contacted my boss and I
32:33
Speaker 1: gathered up my things and I jumped in the car
32:36
Speaker 1: and I drove straight homes eleven hours. We are all
32:41
Speaker 1: waiting on the autopsy report on Emily Glass, the so
32:46
Speaker 1: called stepmother of top boy Lucas. Her Nandez. Lucas goes
32:50
Speaker 1: missing three months past, while Emily seemingly is distraught and
32:55
Speaker 1: helping in the search, turns out she leads private investigator
32:59
Speaker 1: David Marshall to Lucas's little body under a bridge and
33:03
Speaker 1: a washed out culvert joining me. Lee Egan, Ashley Wilcott,
33:08
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott, Morgan, Susan Constantine, a former Kansas social worker
33:12
Speaker 1: going by Lorie for our program today. You know, I
33:17
Speaker 1: want to talk about the autopsy, Joe Scott Morgan, What
33:19
Speaker 1: the hey is taking so long? And what do you
33:22
Speaker 1: make of three suicide notes? Isn't that a tiny bit odd? Yeah?
33:27
Speaker 1: It is? I think that. Yeah, let's talk about that first.
33:30
Speaker 1: The idea with suicide notes. I think that a lot
33:33
Speaker 1: of the general public out there, they believe that that
33:36
Speaker 1: most people are gonna leave a suicide note. I worked
33:39
Speaker 1: more suicides than I ever did homicides, Nancy, and they
33:42
Speaker 1: generally outnumber outpaced about two to one in some locations
33:46
Speaker 1: about three to one. The number of homicides that you're
33:49
Speaker 1: gonna have. It is a typical. It is atypical to
33:52
Speaker 1: find a suicide note. It's kind of like jumping off
33:55
Speaker 1: of a ledge. In my opinion, with suicide, many people
33:58
Speaker 1: just decide to do it. They don't take the time
34:01
Speaker 1: to ruminate and write notes. And the fact that there
34:04
Speaker 1: are three at the scene kind of gives me pause.
34:07
Speaker 1: I hope that they're going to take a very close
34:09
Speaker 1: look at these, uh, particularly with you know, this cloud
34:13
Speaker 1: of questions that just surrounds this this uh, this child's death.
34:17
Speaker 1: Now back to Lucas's autopsy. UM, I'm you know, be
34:22
Speaker 1: honest with you, Nancy, I don't know how much they
34:24
Speaker 1: have to work with. We saw the fact that that
34:29
Speaker 1: his his I'm just gonna be very blunt. His skull
34:32
Speaker 1: is there, all right, We saw the hair. The idea though,
34:36
Speaker 1: is that if there is no trauma to his skull,
34:41
Speaker 1: I don't know how much else you have to work with.
34:43
Speaker 1: We're talking about three months here. So as far as
34:46
Speaker 1: that the external physical findings like soft tissue, those things
34:49
Speaker 1: that we've always seen in cases of homicide, where we have, say,
34:52
Speaker 1: for instance, like a strinkulation or even a suffocation, we
34:55
Speaker 1: might have a tichy I in the eyes. All those
34:57
Speaker 1: sorts of things, they're just not gonna be you there
35:00
Speaker 1: so that we'll be able to definitively say that this
35:04
Speaker 1: is in fact what killed him. Is going to be difficult,
35:07
Speaker 1: I would think at this point. Now they're starting there
35:10
Speaker 1: talking about things like toxicology and all this. I don't
35:13
Speaker 1: know how much they're gonna have to work with that either.
35:15
Speaker 1: And I don't know how much that's gonna play into, uh,
35:20
Speaker 1: into the death of a young child. You know. I
35:22
Speaker 1: guess they could say that he had some type of
35:24
Speaker 1: drug on board. Just Scott, I appreciate all that I'm
35:27
Speaker 1: talking about Emily Glass. Okay, why can't you You know
35:32
Speaker 1: what drives me crazy, as you well know, when somebody
35:35
Speaker 1: actually calm when I yell at them, Just show me
35:37
Speaker 1: a little like, oh okay, I'm sorry something like that,
35:40
Speaker 1: you know, Just go with it. Okay, cool, Okay, Just
35:43
Speaker 1: got what's taking so long with the autopsy on Emily Glass.
35:47
Speaker 1: We still don't know is it homicide or suicide. We're
35:51
Speaker 1: just all saying suicide because we've been told there were
35:55
Speaker 1: three suicide notes. What's taking so long, Nancy, is that
35:58
Speaker 1: they want to try to determine if she had anything
36:02
Speaker 1: else going on board. I'm sure that they're probably going
36:05
Speaker 1: to hold off and wait for toxicology to come back
36:08
Speaker 1: on her. As far as physical findings with her body,
36:12
Speaker 1: there will be the definitive things that they will find
36:15
Speaker 1: if this is in fact a self inflicted gunshot wound
36:18
Speaker 1: with a long weapon, okay, like like range of fire.
36:24
Speaker 1: If in fact she did place that muzzle to her
36:27
Speaker 1: skin anywhere, there will be a point of contact. You
36:31
Speaker 1: cannot avoid this with a long gun if you are
36:34
Speaker 1: self inflicting. It's not like a pistol. You have to
36:38
Speaker 1: anchor that weapon into your chest or into your head,
36:42
Speaker 1: so there will be seriing that will be there. There
36:45
Speaker 1: may even be internal soot deposit, which means when the
36:48
Speaker 1: blast comes out along with the projectile, you'll find soot
36:51
Speaker 1: inside of the wound. Now, if this was fired at
36:55
Speaker 1: a great distance, you're not going to see that with her,
37:00
Speaker 1: and that means that they've got further investigation to do,
37:02
Speaker 1: so they're taking their time. In this particular case, we've
37:06
Speaker 1: got to look at where on the body the injury occurred.
37:10
Speaker 1: If it was a shot to the side of the head,
37:13
Speaker 1: that's not going to be suicide with a long gun
37:16
Speaker 1: because there's practically no way you could physically do that.
37:20
Speaker 1: Often suicides are in the mouth to the front of
37:24
Speaker 1: the chest. Wounds located anywhere else are most likely homicide. Statistically,
37:31
Speaker 1: you've got to look at the distance of the gun
37:33
Speaker 1: from the body suicide shots or at contact as Joe
37:38
Speaker 1: Scott Morgange just said, which is where that's the weapon
37:41
Speaker 1: is actually making contact with your skin or near contact range.
37:47
Speaker 1: That will cause a burn mark, okay, around the wound.
37:51
Speaker 1: It will leave gunpowder residue which can be wiped off.
37:55
Speaker 1: But who's going to wipe it off if it's a suicide.
37:58
Speaker 1: Nobody at contact rain. If the gun is fired above
38:01
Speaker 1: a bone such as your skull or your sternum, a
38:05
Speaker 1: star like wound results. Anything further away is likely to
38:13
Speaker 1: be homicide. Joseph's got Morgan. The star like wound that
38:19
Speaker 1: results when you fire above a bone like the sternum,
38:23
Speaker 1: which is your chest or the skull. What is that
38:26
Speaker 1: star like wound? The star like wound we refer to
38:29
Speaker 1: that also as stellate from stellar. The idea is that
38:34
Speaker 1: coming out of the muzzle of that weapon is superheated gas. Nancy,
38:38
Speaker 1: and what does gas do? We learned in the eighth
38:40
Speaker 1: grade science classes that hot air expands, so when this
38:44
Speaker 1: gas injects into the skin, it creates almost a ripping motion,
38:48
Speaker 1: and so you get this stellate pattern, and they're not
38:50
Speaker 1: going to be perfectly star shaped, but that's the closest thing.
38:53
Speaker 1: If people at home will just think about at Christmas time,
38:56
Speaker 1: for instance, images that we have like the Star of Bethlehem,
38:59
Speaker 1: it looks very very similar to that. It's got these
39:02
Speaker 1: very sharp, high pitched points on it. So this ripping
39:05
Speaker 1: takes place on these flat bones. And you nailed it
39:08
Speaker 1: because you mentioned stern hum as well. Many people forget that,
39:11
Speaker 1: and in this particular case, I think that there's a
39:13
Speaker 1: high likelihood that she could have placed this weapon in
39:16
Speaker 1: her chest and contacted somewhere around the sternum. So that's
39:20
Speaker 1: something that they would and that is if if it's suicide.
39:24
Speaker 1: Now another thing. Number of shots fired, that's obvious because
39:28
Speaker 1: after one shot, even if the victim isn't dead, she
39:32
Speaker 1: would be at least unconscious or unable to fire a
39:35
Speaker 1: second time. Multiple shots, that's going to be a homicide.
39:40
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. I want to talk about
39:42
Speaker 1: the suicide. Note to Lee Egan, investigative reporter with Crime
39:46
Speaker 1: online dot Com. Lee what do we know is the
39:49
Speaker 1: d A said anything about the suicide notes. Mark Bennett,
39:53
Speaker 1: he'd say that the notes were read to him. He
39:55
Speaker 1: didn't read himself, but they were read to him, and
39:58
Speaker 1: his words were. Nothing positive about the Lucas case was
40:02
Speaker 1: found in the note. Huh what Susan Constantine? Psychologists? What
40:06
Speaker 1: does that mean to you? When Anton, do you remember
40:08
Speaker 1: when I was on the show on the Hallmark channel,
40:10
Speaker 1: what was the number of the lying number? Three? So
40:14
Speaker 1: three three is the number one line number. There's three notes,
40:18
Speaker 1: So the question is why is there three notes? What's
40:22
Speaker 1: in it? So there is some research that backs up
40:26
Speaker 1: that when people are being deceptive, they do things in threes,
40:30
Speaker 1: three o'clock, three thirty three times three notes. That's just
40:33
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. Interesting to Lee Egan Crime online dot Com,
40:38
Speaker 1: you said the d A announced there was nothing dis
40:41
Speaker 1: positive in the suicide notes as to Lucas's death and disappearance.
40:48
Speaker 1: You mean there's nothing that proves anything, that settles, anything
40:52
Speaker 1: that disposes of the issue. Correct. Correct. Let's talk about
40:55
Speaker 1: whether it's going to be suicide or homicide. As if
40:57
Speaker 1: this is not suicide, we got a whole another in
41:00
Speaker 1: a worms here. We gotta look at the angle of
41:02
Speaker 1: the shot. Most suicide shots are angles slightly upward to
41:07
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, no stranger to a dead body,
41:10
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, why are they typically angled, if angled at all,
41:14
Speaker 1: angled upward? Well, in this particular case, Nancy, if it's
41:18
Speaker 1: if it is a long gun, which they're talking about,
41:21
Speaker 1: she would literally people have to envision her kind of
41:24
Speaker 1: hovering over this weapon, above it, with the butt of
41:27
Speaker 1: the weapon probably braced on the ground, her leaning into
41:31
Speaker 1: the weapon. So that explains why you're gonna have an
41:33
Speaker 1: upward angle or upward trajectory with this particular shot. Joe
41:37
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan is seemingly going with the theory of the chest,
41:41
Speaker 1: and the reason is because if you're using a rifle
41:44
Speaker 1: along gun, it's gonna be easier to shoot yourself in
41:46
Speaker 1: the chest than in they had presence of gunpowder residue
41:49
Speaker 1: on victim's hand, and you shoot yourself, there's going to
41:52
Speaker 1: be powder residue from unburned carbon on the particular hand
41:58
Speaker 1: that pulled the trigger. Now, this is interesting, Joseph Scott Morgan.
42:03
Speaker 1: Shooting through clothing. A suicide victim rarely shoots through clothing
42:08
Speaker 1: isn't that odd. Very often statistically, if you shoot yourself
42:12
Speaker 1: in the chest, which is actually usual, people victims open
42:17
Speaker 1: their shirt to expose skin. Don't know that. I don't
42:20
Speaker 1: know why that is. So a shot through clothing in
42:24
Speaker 1: the chest could indicate homicide. I don't know if I
42:29
Speaker 1: completely buy that, but yeah, I guess that that's that's
42:31
Speaker 1: quite possible. The exposure of the skin just to make
42:35
Speaker 1: sure that we're doing what we have to do. Remember,
42:38
Speaker 1: most people that do this are not familiar with with
42:41
Speaker 1: you know, you know, how to take their life. So
42:45
Speaker 1: I think kind of subconsciously the skin is exposed to
42:48
Speaker 1: pick out that particular area. I guess that that is
42:50
Speaker 1: a possibility. Yes, well, what about this, if there's any
42:53
Speaker 1: evidence of a struggle, if there are scratches, bruises, cuts
42:57
Speaker 1: on her body, that's one of the things that that
42:58
Speaker 1: you would look for on the backs, the hands, to
43:00
Speaker 1: see if there are any kind of bruising, this sort
43:02
Speaker 1: of thing, any kind of scratches. And also also the
43:06
Speaker 1: other thing we have to think of Nancy is if
43:08
Speaker 1: if there was a struggle, did she fight back against
43:11
Speaker 1: anyone else? So at autopsy, one of the things and
43:13
Speaker 1: I hope that they did this with her, particularly in
43:15
Speaker 1: this case. We do something called nail scrapings, where we
43:18
Speaker 1: actually clip the nails after we have taken a little
43:21
Speaker 1: wooden spoon and pride out any kind of debris that
43:26
Speaker 1: might be under the nails. And one of the things
43:27
Speaker 1: that we're gonna look for here is going to be
43:29
Speaker 1: things like skin cells and blood that do not belong
43:32
Speaker 1: to the victims. So yeah, there's any number of things
43:34
Speaker 1: will look for that might be indicative of a struggle.
43:38
Speaker 1: Now remember I'm not saying a woman would undress for suicide.
43:41
Speaker 1: Jackie's waving a note at me. She's right. Very rarely
43:45
Speaker 1: are women found naked. I mean it just and I
43:48
Speaker 1: learned that firsthand Ashley Willcote in a in the on
43:52
Speaker 1: the Forest Lake was a lake forest area of Atlanta,
43:56
Speaker 1: when a woman was found naked in bed with gunshot
44:00
Speaker 1: woundto the head. I I didn't know enough then, Ashley
44:03
Speaker 1: to know statistically how wrong that scenario was. There's just
44:07
Speaker 1: something instinctive, ash where women don't shoot them selves naked.
44:11
Speaker 1: That's right, And trust your gut, because statistically that is very,
44:14
Speaker 1: very true. They don't. The other piece of evidence that
44:17
Speaker 1: I hope they'll really look at in this particular case,
44:20
Speaker 1: our cell phone records, not only of Emily but also Jonathan.
44:24
Speaker 1: Do you remember Nancy the case where the teenage girl
44:27
Speaker 1: was talking to her boyfriend who was saying, I'm gonna
44:30
Speaker 1: kill myself, and she goaded him on and she was
44:33
Speaker 1: tried for the crime and said, go ahead kill yourself,
44:36
Speaker 1: go ahead, do it. You remember. So I'm not saying
44:40
Speaker 1: that happened here, but I think it's really crucial for
44:42
Speaker 1: law enforcement to look at was Emily on the phone?
44:45
Speaker 1: Was she texting someone? As so who was she talking to?
44:49
Speaker 1: Was Jonathan talking to her or texting her? And that's
44:52
Speaker 1: how he knew to go to the house to see
44:54
Speaker 1: if she killed herself. I just think cell phone records
44:57
Speaker 1: could give some really crucial information as to what there
45:00
Speaker 1: this was a suicide or they're gonna be looking I mean,
45:03
Speaker 1: let's put it out there. They're gonna be looking at
45:05
Speaker 1: Jonathan her Nandez because he's the one that found the body.
45:08
Speaker 1: Whenever you find a body, people look at you. And
45:10
Speaker 1: when I spoke to him, he seemed very calm and
45:13
Speaker 1: in control of his faculties. But they're gonna be looking
45:16
Speaker 1: at him and he is not a suspect. He's not
45:19
Speaker 1: a person of interest because he found the body and
45:22
Speaker 1: he called nine one one. They're gonna be looking at
45:24
Speaker 1: his cell phone records and pinging him to see was
45:27
Speaker 1: he there in the hour ahead of time. Yeah, of
45:29
Speaker 1: course they are. That does not make him a suspect
45:32
Speaker 1: or a person of interest. That makes them doing the
45:35
Speaker 1: right thing and investigating everything. Now here's a big mistake,
45:40
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. I'm leaning on you heavily to assume a
45:43
Speaker 1: case of suicide based on an initial report. When police
45:47
Speaker 1: get to the scene, they find three what they think
45:50
Speaker 1: are suicide notes that are not quote des positive on
45:54
Speaker 1: what happened to Lucas. You can't assume anything. You can't
45:58
Speaker 1: just assume this is a suicide. It's a big mistake,
46:01
Speaker 1: Jo Scott. Yes, it is because the principle that we
46:04
Speaker 1: work from what I teach my students at Jacksonville State
46:07
Speaker 1: University and at the Police Academy, is this one fact.
46:10
Speaker 1: Our working assumption is that every case, and I mean
46:13
Speaker 1: every case, even if it's a nine year old grandma
46:16
Speaker 1: that appears that she's passed away in her sleep, every
46:18
Speaker 1: case is in fact a homicide until proven otherwise. And
46:22
Speaker 1: when you have a case like this that's got so
46:25
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions swirling around, I am going to look
46:29
Speaker 1: harder and harder at any peripheral case that happens to
46:33
Speaker 1: come up in this scenario, this being one of them,
46:37
Speaker 1: because this is a key. This lady is integral and
46:40
Speaker 1: everything that's happening in this and I want answers, and
46:44
Speaker 1: you know, and at this point, I think the real
46:46
Speaker 1: tragedy here is the fact that she may have taken
46:50
Speaker 1: what she knew to the grave. You know, you have
46:52
Speaker 1: to determine what's a better indicator of the truth words
46:55
Speaker 1: or actions? What did she say in that so called
46:59
Speaker 1: suicide note or three of them? How had she behaved before?
47:03
Speaker 1: We don't know of any previous suicide attempts. You have
47:07
Speaker 1: to look at case history when there's been violence in
47:11
Speaker 1: the home, maybe conducted by her. You have to determine
47:17
Speaker 1: was this a suicide or was this another act of violence?
47:20
Speaker 1: Once you hear the word suicide, very often cops have
47:25
Speaker 1: that mindset as they are investigating. Three basic investigative considerations
47:33
Speaker 1: the presence of a weapon or means of death on
47:35
Speaker 1: the scene. Injuries are wounds that look self inflicted the
47:40
Speaker 1: existence of motive or intent on the part of the
47:43
Speaker 1: victim to take their own life. Listen to what Emily
47:48
Speaker 1: glasses friends say. Two of her best friends, when I
47:51
Speaker 1: asked them, would she commit suicide? Do you believe she
47:57
Speaker 1: shot herself? I've got and I showed the police. They
48:01
Speaker 1: took my phone to night. Jonathan Hernandez actually said last
48:06
Speaker 1: Winester Thursday night, if he's seen Emily, he didn't know
48:12
Speaker 1: that he could keep himself from killing her because she asked, Jonathan,
48:17
Speaker 1: will you meet up with me? No tape recorders, no cameras,
48:20
Speaker 1: no videos, no metha, no phones. I want to talk
48:24
Speaker 1: to you about everything that happened at night, And Jonathan
48:28
Speaker 1: told do a friend, I cannot meet up with her
48:30
Speaker 1: because if I do, I'm not sure I won't kill her.
48:34
Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that the father of Lucas Hernandez shot
48:38
Speaker 1: Emily Glass, the stepmother. I am let me just stay
48:42
Speaker 1: here that while Jonathan Hernandez, the father, was in the
48:46
Speaker 1: home where Emily is shot and did call nine one one,
48:50
Speaker 1: to my understanding, there is no evidence at all that
48:54
Speaker 1: he shot Emily Glass. They are saying she would never
48:57
Speaker 1: have committed suicide. They seemly are trying to implicate or
49:01
Speaker 1: not trying to. They seemingly are implicating Jonathan Hernandez and
49:05
Speaker 1: her death. They also claim it was all part of
49:07
Speaker 1: a Wicken plot, which is witchcraft. Okay, so you gotta
49:13
Speaker 1: take that whole thing with a box of salt. Okay,
49:16
Speaker 1: not a pinch, a box of salt, because I do
49:20
Speaker 1: not think Wick and Witchcraft had anything to do with this. Now,
49:24
Speaker 1: Jonathan Hernandez, let me state again, is not a person
49:27
Speaker 1: of interest in Emily or Lucas's death, nor is he
49:31
Speaker 1: a suspect in either of them. All Right, the investigation
49:35
Speaker 1: goes on so much, writing on the autopsy results of
49:39
Speaker 1: Emily Glass as well as top boy Lucas Hernandez. At
49:45
Speaker 1: this time, no one is a suspect or a person
49:49
Speaker 1: of interest. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, goodbye friend.
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