Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro says the CLP would address youth crime through trade training, skilling offenders up for the workforce

Transcript

Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro says the CLP would address youth crime through trade training, skilling offenders up for the workforce · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now Thursday does mark five years since the Royal Commission
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: into Youth Detention and Child Protection handed down its final report.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: The government insists that the Northern Territory youth justice sector
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: is a very different space, but there is criticism that
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: labor hasn't acted as much change or in acted I
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: should say as much change as it should have and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: on four corners. Overnight we know that WA's youth justice
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: system was in the spotlight, but don Dale once again
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: under scrutiny, with some claiming not enough's being done to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: reform the system. Kate Worden defended the system, but it
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: was revealed that more than four hundred complaints have been
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: made in the last year and many of the recommendations
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: supposedly implemented have been considered and closed. Now joining me
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: in the studio is the opposition leader Lea fanocchiiro goodbrning
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  Speaker 1: to you, Leah.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie and to your listeners.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Now, Leah, do you think that it is good enough
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  Speaker 1: that kids are still in don Dale at the moment? Look?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I think ultimately, if you do the crime, you do
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: the time. Sadly, even despite the weakening of laws and
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: despite all of the reform and money that Labor government
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: has spent, and the disempowerment of police and the fact
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: that you know in incarceration is a last resort. We
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: still have higher numbers in use detention today than we
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: did under a CLP government. And I think what we've
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: got is high child protection notifications today than we did
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: under the CLP. And it just shows that despite all
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: of Labour's talk about generational change and therapeutic support and
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars going down into this endeavor,
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: nothing is better.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Crime isn't better.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: There are more use than ever in prison before, and
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  Speaker 3: yet there are still more criminals out on the street
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: than we've ever had. So I think this sums it
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: up as a total catastrophic failure.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you've said on.
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  Speaker 1: The show that if the CLP comes into power, you'll
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  Speaker 1: actually reverse some of those changes which have been made
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  Speaker 1: since the Royal Commission was called. What do you say
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to people that think that that's the wrong thing to do.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I mean they're saying that these therapeutic measures and closing
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: of don Dale is the right way to go, but
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  Speaker 1: you're saying that you want corrections to take back over
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: any youth justice facility.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and we don't shy away from that.
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  Speaker 3: And to the people who want to close dun Dale,
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  Speaker 3: I want to know where are these kids going to go?
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  Speaker 2: Are they going to your house?
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  Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, when you've got
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: severe offending, that needs to be dealt with a consequence,
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  Speaker 3: and you need to ensure the community is safe by
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: not having those high risk offenders out in the community.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: So I'd love to hear from you where are these
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: kids going to go if it's not present?
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Well, Look, I do think that that is a question
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that probably a lot of people listening are wondering as well,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: because we hear from so many victims of crime on
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  Speaker 1: this show. So many people who are broken into, have
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: their cars stolen, are assaulted. We speak so often about
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: different incidents that are happening around the place, and I
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  Speaker 1: do think that that is very often something that's missed
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  Speaker 1: in the national coverage is the absolute scourge that we
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: have in the territory around youth crime. In saying all
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of that, does it make it okay that then there's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: been four hundred complains it's made in the last year
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  Speaker 1: according to this report overnight out of don.
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  Speaker 3: Dale, No, and look, that's a completely separate issue. But
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: what we know is that the system is broken and
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  Speaker 3: people are leaving the territory because of it. These young
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  Speaker 3: people are turning to a life of crime younger and
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: younger because the government is not dealing with parental responsibility.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: They're not dealing with the root causes and the trauma
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  Speaker 3: and whatever else might be happening at a young age
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  Speaker 3: for a lot of these kids. They're hoping that, you know,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: these therapeutic measures will work, but ultimately it's all smoke
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  Speaker 3: and mirrors, Katie. You know, last year we got the data.
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  Speaker 3: One of the government's most heralded diversion programs is called
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Youth Conferencing. Right where a youth breaks the law, they
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  Speaker 3: then sit down face to face with their victim and
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  Speaker 3: have a conference about it. Eleven happened last year, eleven
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  Speaker 3: at a cost of eleven thousand dollars each. Now I
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  Speaker 3: don't know about you, Katie, but I know there was
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  Speaker 3: a lot more than eleven crimes done by youth last year.
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  Speaker 3: So that's an incredibly poor take up rate because of
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  Speaker 3: course it's not enforced, and.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: It should be happening.
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  Speaker 1: What do you reckon should be happening with these youths
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: that are breaking the law, that are doing the wrong thing.
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  Speaker 1: If don Dale's not quite right, and if some of
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  Speaker 1: those different programs aren't working, like victim conferencing, what should
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  Speaker 1: be happening.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we ultimately need to be dealing with the
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  Speaker 3: root cause of the problem in the first place, which
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  Speaker 3: is why we would take territory families, take youth justice
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  Speaker 3: out of territory family so that they can deal with
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  Speaker 3: care and protection of children. Once you have a youth
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  Speaker 3: who is offending, we want to develop a sentence to
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  Speaker 3: a skill training detention facility. So it's basically like a
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  Speaker 3: trade training center, but obviously you serve it during your
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: period your whatever sentence the court has given you, and
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  Speaker 3: you are then linked up.
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  Speaker 2: With employment in that area.
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  Speaker 3: And hopefully once you've completed your term, you've got some
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  Speaker 3: life skills, you've got some self worth, you can you've
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  Speaker 3: shown yourself that you can add value to the community,
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  Speaker 3: change your life and move into the workforce and go
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  Speaker 3: on to be a functioning member of our community. You know,
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  Speaker 3: we need to be looking at other types of camps
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  Speaker 3: where people are getting a lot more discipline and support
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  Speaker 3: to work through their trauma, but also then build a
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  Speaker 3: new pathway going forward. But ultimately, for eleven us to
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  Speaker 3: be sitting around having a victim offender conference at that
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  Speaker 3: expense to the taxpayer shows me that these diversion programs
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  Speaker 3: aren't working.
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  Speaker 1: Leah, we know that the recommendations that were made throughout
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  Speaker 1: the Royal Commission are evidence based.
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  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you just stay.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: On track with those recommendations.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the evidence shows that crime is worse.
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  Speaker 3: There are more youth in prison than ever before, there
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  Speaker 3: are more child notific protection notifications than ever before. People
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: in the community are more angry than they've ever been before.
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  Speaker 3: And whose life is better I don't know. Clearly not
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  Speaker 3: the criminals in don Dale because there's four hundred complaints. Clearly,
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  Speaker 3: not the people on the street who want their car
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  Speaker 3: to be left in their driveway overnight so they can
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  Speaker 3: wake up and go to work in the morning.
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  Speaker 2: So I challenged the government.
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  Speaker 3: You know you've so called implemented these recommendations.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Where is the improvement in the entire system?
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Start to finish, what child's life is better, what victim's
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: life is better, what territory in's life is better?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: They say that they've implemented more than one hundred and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: seventy of those recommendations. One of those is the use
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of body worn cameras. As it turns out, the government
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: hasn't implemented that change, but it's been closed off. Do
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you think that's appropriate and do you think that you
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  Speaker 1: know that those that work out there at don Dale
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: should be wearing body worn cameras well?
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  Speaker 3: Maybe they should be, Katie, to protect themselves, because of course,
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  Speaker 3: no one supports mistreatment in any way, let alone in incarceration.
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  Speaker 3: But ultimately, and I don't have the starts on me unfortunately,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: but we know that the rates of abuse of the
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: youth justice officers in detention facilities is extremely high. And
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  Speaker 3: I speak to them at my barbecues and other things
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  Speaker 3: when I'm out and about Katie, and I can tell
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  Speaker 3: you youth justice officers go to work afraid and ultimately
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  Speaker 3: they deserve protection as well. Lea.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: We are going to have to move along because there
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  Speaker 1: is so much happening. Next week Parliament resumes for the
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: last time this year, two weeks of parliamentary sittings, and
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  Speaker 1: there is so much of the agenda. We've spoken a
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: lot over the last couple of weeks about the changes
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to the age of Criminal responsibility. But I want to
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  Speaker 1: ask some more questions this morning about these changes to
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the Anti Discrimination Act. We spoke to Jered Melee yesterday
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  Speaker 1: he joined us on the show Your Deputy, and he
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: claimed that the government's made some significant changes since that
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  Speaker 1: consultation took place, which means that it is going to
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  Speaker 1: impact each and every one of us. Now he reconsidered
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: what the key exemption has been edited, one of them
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  Speaker 1: has been edited in the draft and it's deleted all
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  Speaker 1: together in the actual bill. What exactly is that change
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  Speaker 1: and how is it going to impact people on an
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  Speaker 1: everyday basis.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely So.
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  Speaker 3: There's a couple of issues that we've been out in
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  Speaker 3: the community consulting on that we're really concerned about. One
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: is around the fact that currently right around the country,
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  Speaker 3: religious schools are allowed to prioritize employment of staff of
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  Speaker 3: their religion. So if you're the Greek school here in Darwin,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: you prioritize hiring Greek teachers, if you're the Islamic school,
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  Speaker 3: if you're an Anglican school, a Catholic school, you name it,
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  Speaker 3: there is allowability for you to be able to employ
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  Speaker 3: people of your particular faith, whatever that might be. Now,
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  Speaker 3: in the draft that was circulated by the government a
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  Speaker 3: few months ago, that clause was being amended, but in
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  Speaker 3: the bill that's come out, they're just deleting it all together.
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  Speaker 3: And so faith based schools have come out very concerned
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  Speaker 3: because they feel like it will take the faith out
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  Speaker 3: of faith based schools.
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  Speaker 2: And that they will no longer be able to deliver.
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  Speaker 3: A faith based education because that ability to prioritize employment
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  Speaker 3: of their staff will no longer be there. They will
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  Speaker 3: have to employ anyone, even if that person's views are
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  Speaker 3: contrary to the faith of that particular school.
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  Speaker 1: Surely, though, I mean, the curriculum is obviously a certain way,
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  Speaker 1: and surely if your curriculum includes religious education classes and
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  Speaker 1: things like that, that it doesn't really matter, you know,
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  Speaker 1: whether the teacher has different views or not. That is
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  Speaker 1: the curriculum, and if you choose to work at that school,
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  Speaker 1: you're obviously going to.
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  Speaker 2: Have to teach it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's not as straightforward of that as that.
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  Speaker 3: My understanding is for a lot of faith based schools
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  Speaker 3: that they leave the faith into every single element of
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: the education. So it's about the pastoral care at the school.
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  Speaker 3: It's about the values of the school. It's about how
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: they teach math, how they teach There's not unnecessarily a
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: particular religious class. It's more that that faith is embedded
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  Speaker 3: in every facet of the school, you know. But there
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: are other really drastic changes as well. For example, you
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: know currently obviously the Anti Discrimination Act is there to
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: protect people from racist attack or agendered attacks, but it's
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: going to include an offense of offense, so if you
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: offend someone, you can then be hauled before the Anti
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  Speaker 3: Discrimination Commission. And for your punter's Katie, who are tune
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: into Parliament, sometimes you'll hear the Labor government be offended
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: at all manner of work.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Well, we had a lot of people actually messages and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: get in contact with us about this yesterday. Are parliamentarians
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: going to have to adhere to the same rules and
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: regulations inside parliament or you're going to be protected by
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: parliamentary privilege.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Well that's a great question, Katie, And I'm not so
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: worried about protecting my myself as the community. I think
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: most people, you know, the Government's done this really sneakily
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: in my view, and I think a lot of people
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: won't realize that. Now, if you're at the part and
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: you tell a joke, if someone overhears that, you could
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: be up before the Anti Discrimination Commission. What's even more
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: scary is not just now that offending someone will be
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: an offense under the Act, but that someone else can
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: be offended for you.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, if you say.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Something to me but I'm fine with it, but you
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: know someone down the street heard us and thinks, oh Katie,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: that was a bit rough, they can bring.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: An action against you.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Common sense prevail here, though, I mean, will it be
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a situation where then it goes through a process and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: that process is that's ridiculous. You know I'm not going
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to be found to get in any sort of trouble. Well,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: you can only hope no one knows. And ultimately the
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: punishment is in the process.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you have people, For example, there was
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: a situation in Tasmania where a preacher was found to
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: have been offensive because they were reading the Bible. Someone
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: took offense to reading the Bible, you know, you're punished
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: by the process.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I imagine the lawyer's fees.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: The lawyers will be rubbing their hands in the territory, Katie,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: because people are going to have to be defending themselves
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: against these types of claims. And ultimately this is untested.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: We don't know how it's going to go. Only Tasmania
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: has done this, and I think people have got better
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: things to do than spend their time tied up in
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: anti discrimination matters over offending someone.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: We are just about out of time.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: But what then is going to happen next week? Look,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: if this legislation passes, what you know, what can Territorians
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: do it gets across the line. There's not a huge
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: amount that they can do.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: It's not you need to get into the ear of government.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Most of you will actually have a labor local member.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Go and speak to your label local member, send them emails,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: ring their office, talk to the media. I mean, this
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: is really an infringement on free speech. It's a step
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: too far and it hasn't been justified by the government.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's there's never been a minister
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: come forward and explain why offensive needs to be a
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: part of the Anti Discrimination Act, and we challenge them
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: to start to front up. You can't treat Territorians with
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: this lets of contempt. People don't want to be dragged
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: before the Anti Discrimination Commission, if you're racist, if you're
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: any of those other things, absolutely but offensive is a
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: very very subjective test, Katie. Well, look, we.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Are going to talk further about it. Unfortunately we've run
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: out of time, Leah. We'll catch up with you again
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: very soon. There's plenty more that I'm keen to talk
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to you about, so we will talk to you again
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: very soon.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you,