Transcript

Credlin | 20 May · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Petero Krandler live on Sky News Australia.
0:08
Speaker 2: Good evening, Welcome to the program. Well what a day,
0:11
Speaker 2: historic day in Canberra. Here's what's coming up in the program.
0:14
Speaker 2: A massive day, as I said, in Australian politics, the
0:17
Speaker 2: National Party walking away from the coalition agreement with the
0:20
Speaker 2: Liberal Party.
0:21
Speaker 3: It is an historic split.
0:23
Speaker 2: Lots of implications here, some practical, some electoral, but also
0:27
Speaker 2: the very future of Conservative politics. In camera are we
0:30
Speaker 2: joined by National Party Senate leader Ridget McKenzie as well
0:33
Speaker 2: as former Nationals leader Party elder strong coalitionist John Anderson.
0:39
Speaker 2: After there is in debt some two hundred billion dollars
0:42
Speaker 2: over the next four years. The Victorian government, the Allen
0:45
Speaker 2: Labor government, where things that can just tax its way
0:48
Speaker 2: out of its mess. They promised spending restraint, but that's
0:52
Speaker 2: not in Labor's Labour's DNA, is it. I'll get you
0:54
Speaker 2: the budget details in a moment. And speaking of the
0:57
Speaker 2: mess in Victoria, Anger palpable today, massive protests on the
1:01
Speaker 2: street outside of the Parliament. Fire is farmers and a
1:05
Speaker 2: whole lot of people who just live in the regions
1:07
Speaker 2: who want to look after their communities, sick of being
1:10
Speaker 2: asked to prop up the state's failing finances. I went
1:13
Speaker 2: down there, I spoke to a lot of you, and
1:15
Speaker 2: I'll bring you the highlights in a moment. And late
1:19
Speaker 2: this afternoon, Liberal leader Susan Lee front of the cameras,
1:22
Speaker 2: leaving more questions than answers.
1:25
Speaker 4: But in the future perhaps we can return and have
1:30
Speaker 4: conversations that pick up where we left off. But in
1:33
Speaker 4: terms of why, that probably is a question for them.
1:38
Speaker 2: But first, just when you think things couldn't get worse
1:40
Speaker 2: for the coalition, well they have the announcement today that
1:43
Speaker 2: the National Party was unwilling or indeed unable to sign
1:46
Speaker 2: a coalition agreement with the Liberal Party. It's just about
1:49
Speaker 2: as bad as it gets. Unfortunately, Lough, given the policy
1:53
Speaker 2: differences between the two, this was all but inevitable.
1:58
Speaker 5: Our party room has got position where we will not
2:01
Speaker 5: be re entering a coalition agreement with the Liberal Party
2:05
Speaker 5: after this election. What we have got to a position
2:10
Speaker 5: is that the National Party will sit alone on a
2:12
Speaker 5: principal basis.
2:15
Speaker 2: Now, it was clear in his comments Little prow David
2:17
Speaker 2: Little Prawd there the Nationals leader had the full support
2:20
Speaker 2: of his party room. This was no leader on a
2:22
Speaker 2: frolic and the issues of contention did not relate to
2:25
Speaker 2: positions on the front bench or any of the other
2:28
Speaker 2: spoils of opposition that some of the media have suggested.
2:32
Speaker 2: It came down to deeply held positions of conviction on
2:35
Speaker 2: policies at the coalition itself had just taken.
2:38
Speaker 3: To the election.
2:39
Speaker 2: Not new policies, but policies that had been internally debated
2:43
Speaker 2: and then backed right up until the third of May. Indeed,
2:46
Speaker 2: if Peter Dutton had won the recent election, these policies
2:50
Speaker 2: would now be on their way to becoming law in
2:53
Speaker 2: this country. Instead, they now all up in limbo, at
2:57
Speaker 2: least with the Liberals. Given Lee's position that every policy
3:01
Speaker 2: is up the debate.
3:04
Speaker 4: Our perspective is not about the individual policies themselves, but
3:09
Speaker 4: the approach that we said we would take to our
3:12
Speaker 4: party room about policies. Nothing adopted and nothing abandoned.
3:19
Speaker 2: Now this is a big, big departure for Lee. Generally,
3:24
Speaker 2: after a loss the Liberal Party has said all policies
3:27
Speaker 2: are there, they are alive.
3:29
Speaker 3: Until they're repudiated.
3:31
Speaker 2: This is what happened in seven and beyond, but not
3:34
Speaker 2: the case now. She uses everything's off the table until
3:37
Speaker 2: we review and put it back on.
3:40
Speaker 3: Now.
3:40
Speaker 2: The three policy areas of contention for the national parties
3:44
Speaker 2: related first to the regional telecommunications and this thing called
3:48
Speaker 2: the Universal Service Obligation the USO. Second, devestment powers for
3:54
Speaker 2: supermarkets that aim to give consumers lower prices and fairness
3:59
Speaker 2: for farmers when it comes to negotiating with coals and woollies.
4:03
Speaker 2: A third and final point of difference was nuclear power. Now,
4:06
Speaker 2: the first one related to the telecommunications and the US
4:09
Speaker 2: So that's a policy going right back to the time
4:12
Speaker 2: I worked for Richard Alston, the Communications Minister in the
4:15
Speaker 2: Howard Eras that's not contentious. Divestment powers, well, that policy
4:19
Speaker 2: has been debated internally and agreed and then taken to
4:22
Speaker 2: an election again. These powers exist in countries like the
4:26
Speaker 2: UK and the US. I don't think that was the
4:28
Speaker 2: breaking point. So I think we've all got to assume
4:31
Speaker 2: the fight came down to the issue of nuclear energy. Now,
4:35
Speaker 2: I'm a strong coalitionist, I have to say tonight, and
4:38
Speaker 2: I've got sympathy for both sides here. The National Party, well,
4:43
Speaker 2: it can't wait for the Liberal Party to get its
4:45
Speaker 2: house in order, as much as the Liberals do in
4:47
Speaker 2: fact need time to sort themselves out. The National Party
4:51
Speaker 2: cannot wait forward to six months for the Libs to
4:55
Speaker 2: go through their usual internal convulsions to try and work
4:58
Speaker 2: out who they are and what they stand for, having
5:00
Speaker 2: lost their way since the arrival of Malcolm Turnbull. Supporting
5:04
Speaker 2: nuclear power should be a no brainer for Liberals, given
5:08
Speaker 2: it was their founder, Robert Menzies who first canvassed a
5:11
Speaker 2: nuclear power industry for Australia when he opened our nation's
5:15
Speaker 2: first reactor at Lucas Heights in Sydney. Now somewhere along
5:19
Speaker 2: the line, though Liberals or some Liberals, have.
5:22
Speaker 3: Lost their way.
5:23
Speaker 2: Now I know there are some inside the Liberal Party,
5:25
Speaker 2: individuals in the party room who want to see an
5:29
Speaker 2: end to nuclear power, partly because they've got factional backers
5:33
Speaker 2: on the left have got all their financial eggs in
5:36
Speaker 2: the renewables basket. Some Liberals too want to use nuclear
5:41
Speaker 2: power as a convenience scapegoat for their electoral wipeout, in
5:45
Speaker 2: part because that means they don't have to look too
5:48
Speaker 2: hard at themselves if their loss was all to the
5:51
Speaker 2: fault of nuclear Now this is short sighted and it
5:55
Speaker 2: lacks empirical evidence. For two years, the Liberal Party argue
5:59
Speaker 2: for nuclear power for two years. The published polls had
6:02
Speaker 2: them in a very competitive position with Labour. Indeed, going
6:06
Speaker 2: into the election campaign behind the limbs with nuclear power,
6:12
Speaker 2: they were on track to win. Now, that says to
6:15
Speaker 2: me that nuclear power was not the issue that put
6:18
Speaker 2: the Coalition on the nose. Indeed, they were heading the
6:21
Speaker 2: polls when nuclear power was about the only policy position
6:25
Speaker 2: they had out there in the public domain. My view
6:29
Speaker 2: is the people voted more for labor to protect medicare
6:35
Speaker 2: than they voted against the Coalition on the basis of
6:38
Speaker 2: nuclear So powerful was Labour's scare campaign on health.
6:43
Speaker 5: I think that's a brave assessment to say they voted
6:46
Speaker 5: against nuclear energy. I think they got a very good
6:49
Speaker 5: scare campaign about a six hundred billion dollar scare campaign.
6:53
Speaker 5: I don't think that was the reason. I think, if
6:55
Speaker 5: we're honest, it was more about a scare campaign on
6:58
Speaker 5: nuclear on medi each.
7:02
Speaker 2: Now, as you've heard me say before, the National Party
7:05
Speaker 2: does not have the identity crisis that the Liberal Party does.
7:08
Speaker 2: Our successive elections, the Nationals have held their position in
7:12
Speaker 2: some seeds, even gaining ground.
7:14
Speaker 3: Whether the Liberal Party has not.
7:15
Speaker 2: National Party MPs members and supporters, well, they know exactly
7:19
Speaker 2: who they are and what they stand.
7:22
Speaker 5: For, on the basis of looking forward, not having to
7:26
Speaker 5: look back, and to try and actually regain important policy
7:30
Speaker 5: pieces that change the lives of the people.
7:33
Speaker 6: We represent policies that we had fought for that only
7:37
Speaker 6: a few weeks ago, we fought an election on policies
7:42
Speaker 6: that in the main rule and Regional Australia backed. We
7:47
Speaker 6: stand for all of rural and regional Australia and we
7:49
Speaker 6: won't take a backward step.
7:53
Speaker 2: As you can see, then that's a confident in their
7:55
Speaker 2: own skin. They're always willing to get into the reading
7:57
Speaker 2: and defend their positions. Now that's not always the with
8:00
Speaker 2: some liberals. Now, after all, it was the National Party
8:03
Speaker 2: that first opposed the Voice, and the National Party that
8:07
Speaker 2: first put nuclear power on the table. Now, worryingly, there
8:11
Speaker 2: are suburban liberals going around saying that the election loss
8:14
Speaker 2: gives them the opportunity to jettison the coalition altogether.
8:18
Speaker 3: And I'll go even further.
8:20
Speaker 2: Some are suggesting that any conservatives inside the Liberal Party
8:24
Speaker 2: or that they should leave and join the Nats because
8:27
Speaker 2: they are now no longer welcome. Now I've got no
8:30
Speaker 2: idea where these Einstein's then suggest the Liberal Party wins
8:34
Speaker 2: government or how they might form a coalition, because without
8:38
Speaker 2: a coalition the Liberal Party will stay on the opposition
8:42
Speaker 2: benches in perpetuity. It's worth making the point here too
8:46
Speaker 2: that the only time the Liberals have won government from
8:48
Speaker 2: opposition history shows us is with a conservative agenda. John Howard,
8:54
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott two ready examples. And while Dutton himself might
8:59
Speaker 2: have been conservative, is policy.
9:02
Speaker 3: Platform as we know was not.
9:05
Speaker 2: Now, having been in the room with three of these
9:07
Speaker 2: coalition agreements have been negotiated, I can assure you they
9:10
Speaker 2: have never been easy documents to get over the line.
9:14
Speaker 3: The Nationals, quite rightly.
9:15
Speaker 2: Have always fought their corner hard. But when the Liberal
9:19
Speaker 2: leader respects their place as the junior partner but not
9:22
Speaker 2: the subservient partner, the relationships always productive. It wins elections
9:28
Speaker 2: and by god, it delivers good government for Australia. When
9:31
Speaker 2: Liberal leaders have tried to denigrate the Nats, says the
9:34
Speaker 2: poor relation, who should just be satisfied with the scraps
9:37
Speaker 2: from the table, Well that's usually where all hell breaks loose.
9:41
Speaker 2: I've said before that the job of opposition leaders about
9:43
Speaker 2: the toughest job in politics. In tonight Susan Lee's jobs
9:47
Speaker 2: got even tougher because the longer these two parties stay
9:51
Speaker 2: apart and outside a formal coalition, the harder it will
9:55
Speaker 2: be to put them back together again, because inevitably both
9:59
Speaker 2: of them take positions that they will find hard to
10:02
Speaker 2: later moderate or alter in order to sign a new
10:06
Speaker 2: coalition agreement. But this is what they must do if
10:10
Speaker 2: they have any chance of winning an election in the future.
10:14
Speaker 2: If Lee does have her policy review and then cannot
10:19
Speaker 2: bridge the gap between the Libs and the NaNs, she
10:22
Speaker 2: will inevitably set up the grounds for her removal as leader.
10:26
Speaker 2: And the closer it gets to an election, the more
10:29
Speaker 2: her colleagues, who might be pretty hairy Chester tonight, pretty
10:32
Speaker 2: happy to go it alone, will come to understand that
10:35
Speaker 2: their electoral fortunes are intrinsically linked to those of the
10:39
Speaker 2: National Party, meaning that today's bravado will be replaced by
10:44
Speaker 2: the real politic of the numbers. And let me say
10:47
Speaker 2: something here about principles. What we saw today, with you
10:51
Speaker 2: agree with it or not, was a very principal stand
10:54
Speaker 2: from the National Party. For all the craven behaviors we
10:58
Speaker 2: attribute to politicians, the National Party leaders and the party room,
11:03
Speaker 2: gave up all the extra staff and the salaries that
11:06
Speaker 2: go with opposition. Now that says something about how deeply
11:10
Speaker 2: felt these policy convictions are. If I was critical of
11:14
Speaker 2: anything here, it's said both parties really should have been
11:17
Speaker 2: able to work through these differences and come to some agreement.
11:21
Speaker 2: As I said, I've been there before when they've done this,
11:23
Speaker 2: It's been difficult, but you've just got to keep working
11:27
Speaker 2: and working and working until you get there. Unfortunately, this
11:31
Speaker 2: time that was not to be. Now Where to now
11:34
Speaker 2: will be a huge test for Lee's leadership and a
11:38
Speaker 2: huge test too of all those inside and outside the
11:42
Speaker 2: Parliament advising her. What does this mean in light of
11:47
Speaker 2: some rumors that there are those inside the Libs who
11:50
Speaker 2: want to remake it as some sort of urban labor
11:54
Speaker 2: light creature.
11:56
Speaker 4: The Liberal Party must Respectustralia, reflect modern Australia, and represent
12:04
Speaker 4: modern Australia with modern eye, and we will rebuild.
12:10
Speaker 2: Lots of recitations era of modern Australia, modern Liberals. And
12:14
Speaker 2: of course it wasn't that long ago that some tried
12:16
Speaker 2: to take that off down a cul de sac and
12:19
Speaker 2: make modern liberal a brand of its own. Now, if
12:22
Speaker 2: the PM thought he was shot in the backside with
12:24
Speaker 2: a rainbow on the night of the election with his
12:25
Speaker 2: record seat Hall, I think that all pales into insignificance
12:32
Speaker 2: with his great win of today. Basically he's up against
12:35
Speaker 2: an opposition that's not just wounded, it's now officially broken
12:40
Speaker 2: for the country. I think this is a dark day
12:43
Speaker 2: because good government demands a strong opposition, particularly when it's
12:48
Speaker 2: one that's got a whopping majority as Labor has, and
12:52
Speaker 2: that tonight is what worries me most of all. Look
13:01
Speaker 2: also making news today the Melbourne CBD brought to a standstill,
13:05
Speaker 2: is more than eight thousand fed up farmers and CFA
13:08
Speaker 2: volunteers travel to the steps of the State Parliament to
13:11
Speaker 2: drive home their opposition to the decision by the State
13:14
Speaker 2: Labor government to push through its hugely contentious emergency services
13:19
Speaker 2: levee ushered through well after midnight last week. This new
13:22
Speaker 2: tax will hit every Victorian, but hit our rural and
13:26
Speaker 2: regional community is the hardest.
13:28
Speaker 3: Farmers.
13:29
Speaker 2: It means their annual fire levee will triple up some
13:34
Speaker 2: two hundred percent, with many facing bills of more than
13:37
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars, some as high as four hundred thousand dollars.
13:43
Speaker 2: And let's not forget that the farmers forced to pay
13:45
Speaker 2: this unsustainable new fire levee are the same farmers who
13:49
Speaker 2: leave their land to.
13:50
Speaker 3: Fight our bush fires for free. Let me say that again.
13:54
Speaker 2: Farmers are paying tens of thousands of dollars to the
13:57
Speaker 2: government only to be left to protect their own unities
14:00
Speaker 2: and our national parks and our highways a whole lot themselves. Now,
14:04
Speaker 2: how's that fair? Many of them having to pay workers
14:07
Speaker 2: to work on their farms while they fight fires over summer,
14:11
Speaker 2: having to use their own privately owned fire fighting trucks
14:14
Speaker 2: and equipment because the state labor government does not fund
14:17
Speaker 2: the CFA as it should. Today they drove in service vehicles,
14:22
Speaker 2: trucks and utes, locking roads into Melbourne. To make an
14:26
Speaker 2: important point, there is a deep disconnect between this labor
14:30
Speaker 2: government and hard working farmers who right now tonight are
14:35
Speaker 2: staring down the barrel of one of the worst droughts
14:38
Speaker 2: in living memory. Today, I spoke to just a few
14:42
Speaker 2: of them and here they are.
14:44
Speaker 3: What made you come out today?
14:46
Speaker 1: It's just a discussing money grade and it's just completely
14:50
Speaker 1: unfair on farmers be expected to pay ridiculous overspending within
14:55
Speaker 1: the city.
14:55
Speaker 3: Do you know how much the hip will be on you.
15:00
Speaker 1: Extra five thousand dollars a year. The government are destroy
15:03
Speaker 1: to burn us and where all volunteers and we spend
15:06
Speaker 1: hours and hours out on the fire ground.
15:07
Speaker 5: This tax is, as we all know, it's just another
15:10
Speaker 5: tax to fill holes in the labor government's economy.
15:14
Speaker 6: Police spent our Christmas and our New Years and everything
15:16
Speaker 6: on the fire truck.
15:18
Speaker 7: What were you doing to center?
15:19
Speaker 1: Were you sitting a.
15:19
Speaker 7: Home with your family where we weren't so you didn't
15:22
Speaker 7: get stuffed?
15:23
Speaker 2: In my opinion, some of them were full of expleeddies.
15:28
Speaker 2: I couldn't put them to air. But god, they're angry.
15:30
Speaker 2: And while these guys rallied on Spring Street just a
15:33
Speaker 2: few minutes away. Of course the Premier was there with
15:34
Speaker 2: her treasurer hailing a budget surplus. But this is all
15:38
Speaker 2: smoke and mirrors. It's not a real surplus.
15:40
Speaker 3: Here's why.
15:41
Speaker 2: Look at this table, a skinny almost make believe six hundred.
15:45
Speaker 3: Million dollars is the surplus.
15:46
Speaker 2: And do you know what, six hundred million is exactly
15:50
Speaker 2: the same amount they're raising from this new levee.
15:53
Speaker 3: This is a levee.
15:54
Speaker 2: Actually it's a fire services tax. Let's call it what
15:57
Speaker 2: it is, meaning that this new tax hike is not
16:00
Speaker 2: about fighting fires. It's about the smoke and mirrors of
16:03
Speaker 2: a so called surplus that the premiere hopes will save
16:06
Speaker 2: her sorry political backside. I can tell you if the
16:10
Speaker 2: people in Melbourne today had their say, should be gone already.
16:14
Speaker 2: There was even this canny sign calling on her backbench
16:18
Speaker 2: to do the right thing by Victorians and remove her.
16:21
Speaker 2: To help you understand just how tough it is for
16:23
Speaker 2: farmers out west. Some told me today that they've been
16:26
Speaker 2: forced to dry so that is, to put seed on
16:29
Speaker 2: dry barren land and hope and pray for rain. Many
16:34
Speaker 2: have already sold their stock to make ends meet and
16:37
Speaker 2: ensure they didn't then have animal staff to death in paddocks.
16:40
Speaker 3: I mean, it is heartbreaking.
16:42
Speaker 2: Today farmers told me they're contemplating walking off the land
16:46
Speaker 2: for good. Others what was clear, the mental health told
16:51
Speaker 2: is pushing them to the brink. Now, any leader worth
16:54
Speaker 2: their salt would have walked out of their office and
16:56
Speaker 2: fronted that crowd today and listened, listen to their stories,
17:00
Speaker 2: the anxiety, the uncertainty, everything they had to say to me.
17:03
Speaker 2: But you know what happened the Premier she just hid
17:06
Speaker 2: in her office.
17:09
Speaker 3: I find that unbelievable. It is completely gutless.
17:13
Speaker 2: That alone should disqualify her, in my view, from any
17:16
Speaker 2: position of leadership.
17:18
Speaker 3: What is it with Victoria?
17:20
Speaker 2: First Daniel Andrews and now this apprentice just into Allen
17:24
Speaker 2: well good on the opposition leader Brad Batton, who today
17:27
Speaker 2: made this commitment.
17:29
Speaker 4: I will make the commitment to you that if we
17:31
Speaker 4: are elected on November next year.
17:34
Speaker 1: The Victorian Liberals will scrap that tax and hand that money.
17:38
Speaker 3: Back to Victoria.
17:41
Speaker 2: I just hope that between now and next year's elections,
17:45
Speaker 2: you in November, enough of those wonderful farmers, those communities,
17:49
Speaker 2: those volunteers can hang on.
17:57
Speaker 1: All right.
17:58
Speaker 2: Have to sit today in Canberra a day of histree.
18:00
Speaker 3: It's huge.
18:02
Speaker 2: It'll change the makeup of the Parliament to the Liberal
18:04
Speaker 2: Party now will sit there with twenty eight seats, the
18:07
Speaker 2: Nationals on fifteen, and a whole lot of implications there
18:11
Speaker 2: to come. Trying me to make at least a fifth
18:13
Speaker 2: of what we know Tonight, Sky's political editor Andrew Clenell
18:17
Speaker 2: Well as I said, a massive day. We know nuclear
18:19
Speaker 2: Andrew was on the table and zero all points of friction.
18:23
Speaker 3: What else can you tell.
18:24
Speaker 1: Us well net zero never even made it. I mean,
18:28
Speaker 1: that's that's a debate still to come. It was nuclear divestiture,
18:33
Speaker 1: the mobile phones promise, and the regional fund. They wanted
18:38
Speaker 1: the twenty ban dollar regional fund. So they had all
18:41
Speaker 1: those demands. I guess Susan Lee wouldn't come at any
18:43
Speaker 1: of them. But you know, in defense of Susan Lee,
18:46
Speaker 1: she only became later a week ago. Often these talks
18:50
Speaker 1: can drag on a few days, and her mother died,
18:53
Speaker 1: so but she was pretty determined. It seems not to
18:56
Speaker 1: guarantee any sort of policy. And I think the Nationals
19:01
Speaker 1: have really kind of blown it here. I mean, we're
19:04
Speaker 1: going to see the side of David little prowd sitting
19:06
Speaker 1: on the backbench. I mean, once Parliament actually sits, it's
19:11
Speaker 1: going to be a pretty stark image for the National Party.
19:14
Speaker 1: But I think, and I think you've got Bridget Mackenzie
19:18
Speaker 1: on tonight that's interesting too. She's hopping mad. Just Er
19:21
Speaker 1: Price defected to the Lips. Yet it will it be
19:24
Speaker 1: down the track that Angus daylor just enter Price tickets
19:27
Speaker 1: the way out of this in terms of a coalition
19:30
Speaker 1: forming so and they lose a heap of money in
19:33
Speaker 1: terms of their staff into their own entitlements. It's an
19:37
Speaker 1: extraordinary measure. Now, the argument put to me by senior
19:40
Speaker 1: Nationals Peter is that they believed that if they didn't
19:45
Speaker 1: do this now, they could team of the Liberals savory
19:50
Speaker 1: things under review, and then if Susan Lee stepped away
19:52
Speaker 1: from these policies or shadow cabinet, did they then have
19:57
Speaker 1: to blow up the coalition six or twelve months in.
20:00
Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty pessimistic reading. I don't see
20:03
Speaker 1: the evidence that Susan Lee would step away from, say,
20:06
Speaker 1: lifting the nuclear moratorium. And frankly, I don't see the
20:10
Speaker 1: problem with not committing to policies right now, because don't
20:14
Speaker 1: you want all the attention on the government for the
20:16
Speaker 1: first twelve to eighteen months. Why make yourself the issue.
20:19
Speaker 1: The more we sit here talking about the coalition over
20:23
Speaker 1: the next eighteen months to three years, the worse it
20:26
Speaker 1: is for the coalition. So I think, you know, there
20:30
Speaker 1: isn't much to hit the government with at the moment,
20:32
Speaker 1: but you've certainly got this super tax issue rolling around,
20:36
Speaker 1: and no doubt there'll be more, as there often is.
20:40
Speaker 1: But look, I just think this is devastating for conservative
20:46
Speaker 1: politics in Australia. It's a Nada for conservative politics in Australia.
20:50
Speaker 1: And don't mind your twenty fifty target. The way they're going,
20:53
Speaker 1: they'll be lucky to be in office by twenty thirty seven.
20:55
Speaker 8: Anyway.
20:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I made the point that I've done three
20:59
Speaker 2: of them negotiations in the past, and the preceident is
21:03
Speaker 2: and let's be very clear about this, the president in
21:06
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party and the National Party coming out of
21:08
Speaker 2: election losses, is that all policies stay on the table
21:12
Speaker 2: until they are repudiated. So what Susan has done here
21:16
Speaker 2: repute ated and reviewed. I mean, they can change after
21:19
Speaker 2: a review, but they all stand there in their totality
21:22
Speaker 2: unless they are changed.
21:23
Speaker 3: And this goes all the way back.
21:25
Speaker 2: I remember that the heady days of seven, that the
21:27
Speaker 2: issue of work choices was there. The Coalition took an
21:30
Speaker 2: early decision to repudiate work choices, but everything else stayed
21:33
Speaker 2: on the table. Now what's happened here, and this is
21:36
Speaker 2: the difference. Susan Lee has said, Well, basically everything's in
21:38
Speaker 2: limbo until we have a review. Now that's also very
21:42
Speaker 2: unusual and I don't imagine you do a review if
21:45
Speaker 2: you fed income about it.
21:46
Speaker 3: In a couple of weeks.
21:48
Speaker 2: So I guess the National Party and a lot of
21:51
Speaker 2: Liberals are saying, we can't be in this position where
21:54
Speaker 2: we don't stand for everything, or we don't have a
21:56
Speaker 2: view on anything until the end of the year. We
21:59
Speaker 2: don't have that luxury because Labor of course will start
22:02
Speaker 2: bringing through a whole lot of legislation. So they're going
22:04
Speaker 2: to have to take positions all the way through the years.
22:08
Speaker 2: They're going to be caught the replied with reality when
22:13
Speaker 2: the legislation's going to leave everything on the table land
22:16
Speaker 2: through until such time.
22:17
Speaker 3: As you change.
22:19
Speaker 1: I really that's the way it's worked in the past. Well,
22:22
Speaker 1: so what I mean they got absolutely thrashed. They got
22:25
Speaker 1: absolutely thrashed. You've got twenty eight liberals. So what is
22:29
Speaker 1: wrong with saying that, you know, we're for lower taxes
22:32
Speaker 1: where for orcus, but we'll review everything else. I really
22:37
Speaker 1: don't see a problem with it, to be honest, except
22:40
Speaker 1: the Nationals obviously were Frankly a spoiling for a fight
22:44
Speaker 1: and little Proud because he felt under pressure from the
22:46
Speaker 1: likes of Bridget and Canavan. So now they blame the
22:50
Speaker 1: whole show up. They haven't even had a proper fight
22:52
Speaker 1: over it. It just looked like they just wanted to
22:55
Speaker 1: do this, and a lot of liberals, not just in
22:57
Speaker 1: the what you would call the moderates that can servatives,
23:00
Speaker 1: are fed up with the NAT's attitude in relation of
23:04
Speaker 1: this trying to dictate things. I mean, how well did
23:06
Speaker 1: that work last term? The tail wagging the dock and
23:12
Speaker 1: Peter didn't well. Hew, you just put out policy two
23:15
Speaker 1: weeks before the election. You talk about having a position, Peter.
23:19
Speaker 1: So I really don't see anything wrong with making the
23:23
Speaker 1: government the focus, except for a few Vayus positions and
23:27
Speaker 1: little Proud and Lee. You know, whenever there's a divorce,
23:30
Speaker 1: it's always fifty to fifty. It's never one side that
23:32
Speaker 1: creates something. But I'll tell you what. They should have
23:36
Speaker 1: worked towards something, towards something. They should have met halfway.
23:41
Speaker 1: There had to be a way. And the only one
23:43
Speaker 1: who wins out of this is Anthony Albanesi. I'll tell
23:46
Speaker 1: you who doesn't win is National and Nationals MPs and
23:50
Speaker 1: their staffers who are going to get paid a lot less.
23:52
Speaker 1: So let's have a look at what the Nationals have
23:54
Speaker 1: achieved today, Peter. They're earning less money. They've got less power,
23:59
Speaker 1: they've got less relevance, and you know what an achievement
24:03
Speaker 1: by David Little, Proud, Bridget Mackenzie and Kevin Hogan, well done.
24:08
Speaker 2: Well, They would argue, and I've spoken to a lot
24:10
Speaker 2: of people today, as I'm sure you have. They would
24:13
Speaker 2: argue that they've been able to hold their principles, that
24:15
Speaker 2: the people who put them back into power and voted
24:18
Speaker 2: in support of things like nuclear power. I have certainty
24:20
Speaker 2: that the Nats are not for turning now. Conversely, the
24:23
Speaker 2: liberals say, there are some liberals who are a bit
24:25
Speaker 2: upset today that they could not resolve positions like nuclear,
24:28
Speaker 2: that nuclear did not have to be thrown up, that
24:31
Speaker 2: they could have had a principal position on nuclear and
24:34
Speaker 2: worked out the detail of whether that meant state owned
24:37
Speaker 2: reactors or whether that meant just lifting the moratorium.
24:40
Speaker 3: I mean, all of these things have been done before.
24:43
Speaker 2: I've been in a coalition arrangement, mate, where you've had
24:47
Speaker 2: the Gnats going out alone on something like the single
24:50
Speaker 2: desk on wheat.
24:52
Speaker 3: I remember that very well.
24:53
Speaker 2: They voted separately on the issue of the single desk
24:56
Speaker 2: of wheat. There was a divergent view between the two parties,
24:59
Speaker 2: but we stayed in a you can manage this stuff, right,
25:02
Speaker 2: you can manage this stuff.
25:04
Speaker 3: I'll tell you. The issue will on both sides.
25:07
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the issue I have with what you're
25:10
Speaker 1: putting to me is the NAT's argument.
25:12
Speaker 3: Right.
25:12
Speaker 1: If Susan Lae had said to them we are not
25:16
Speaker 1: proceeding with nuclear, I would totally understand their position. She
25:20
Speaker 1: never said that. She just said, let's review everything. There's
25:23
Speaker 1: a big difference between let's wear dumping nuclear, which would
25:28
Speaker 1: give you any proper excuse for a split, and we
25:32
Speaker 1: just want to review everything.
25:34
Speaker 2: And you know, maybe maybe I'll leave it here, but
25:36
Speaker 2: maybe she's regretting. Maybe she's regretting junking sort of twenty
25:42
Speaker 2: years a precedent where things stay on the table, as
25:44
Speaker 2: I say, unless they are repudiated. She's basically got it
25:47
Speaker 2: all in limbo. And that's forced this split today, or
25:51
Speaker 2: it's contributed. I won't say it's forced. It's contributed to
25:54
Speaker 2: a split today. And I think this is a very
25:56
Speaker 2: very different climate when Parliament returns. I'll live it there,
25:59
Speaker 2: thank you. And that's gone out to someone who was
26:01
Speaker 2: there in the room for all the negotiations and more.
26:04
Speaker 2: Leader of the Nationals in the Senate. Bridge and Mackenzie, Well,
26:06
Speaker 2: you would have heard Andrew Clanel there. He thinks you're
26:09
Speaker 2: trigger happy you've walked away too peremptly that you should
26:12
Speaker 2: have just basically signed the document and not worried about
26:17
Speaker 2: issues like nuclear until there was a proper rooview.
26:19
Speaker 6: What would you say to that, Well, Andrew can afford
26:23
Speaker 6: to spout his views on sky. I'm actually responsible to
26:28
Speaker 6: the people that elected me, as is every one of
26:31
Speaker 6: our MPs and senators in the National Party party room,
26:34
Speaker 6: and we made a very reasonable request of a trusted partner,
26:39
Speaker 6: particularly around the four policy issues that you've outlined, and
26:45
Speaker 6: unfortunately the Liberal Party were unable to guarantee those as
26:49
Speaker 6: coalition policies, and so we made a very heavy decision,
26:54
Speaker 6: not one taken lightly, but one that we made collectively
26:58
Speaker 6: to lead the coalition at time.
27:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I don't understand Bridgin and I made the
27:04
Speaker 2: point with Andrew and I sometimes I think sometimes sometimes
27:08
Speaker 2: I think with media they just you know't want the
27:11
Speaker 2: sport of the debate. But the president sits in your favor,
27:14
Speaker 2: and that for twenty or twenty five years as long
27:17
Speaker 2: as I've been around politics, You've always accepted that after
27:21
Speaker 2: an election, the policies stand unless they are specifically repudiated, right,
27:26
Speaker 2: unless you've decided X and y what sent us to
27:30
Speaker 2: the war and the election.
27:31
Speaker 3: This is very different.
27:32
Speaker 2: So what Susan Lee is saying that we have no
27:34
Speaker 2: policies until we have the room. We might have values
27:37
Speaker 2: and principles, but none of our policies that we would
27:40
Speaker 2: have been elected on a couple of weeks ago exist anymore.
27:43
Speaker 2: They're all gone and will take six or seven months
27:45
Speaker 2: to work out what we think and then you'll know
27:47
Speaker 2: what we stand for. I don't know how that's supposed
27:50
Speaker 2: to work. How do you deal with legislation coming through
27:53
Speaker 2: the Parliament in that time?
27:55
Speaker 6: Well, exactly, Peter, And it was only less than three
27:58
Speaker 6: weeks ago. We still and fought on a hill to
28:01
Speaker 6: the death for these policies and for the National Party,
28:05
Speaker 6: things like the Regional Australia Future Fund, which would a
28:09
Speaker 6: twenty billion dollar fund to actually allow regional communities to
28:13
Speaker 6: seize the opportunities and overcome the challenges of the next
28:16
Speaker 6: couple of decades. Nuclear power, divestige of supermarket, something that's
28:21
Speaker 6: been long held, as you would know, Ron Boswell was
28:24
Speaker 6: a huge champion of that particular policy and to actually
28:27
Speaker 6: have had the internal fight within the coalition to achieve
28:31
Speaker 6: that as a coalition policy. To then say that's all
28:34
Speaker 6: off the table wasn't acceptable to our party room.
28:38
Speaker 7: And we understand the Liberal Party has.
28:40
Speaker 6: To go through a period of reflection, of review and
28:44
Speaker 6: to work out who and what they're about. We respect
28:47
Speaker 6: them enough to make the space for them to be
28:50
Speaker 6: able to do that. We can't be a successful coalition
28:53
Speaker 6: if they don't get that right. We know who we
28:56
Speaker 6: are and what we're about. We're not afraid to say it.
29:00
Speaker 6: We just want to get on with fighting the Labor
29:01
Speaker 6: Party and to stand up for the regions on the
29:04
Speaker 6: policy platform that we took to the last election.
29:07
Speaker 7: And will continue to do that.
29:11
Speaker 2: I guess the risk is the longest stay apart you
29:13
Speaker 2: as a party will take positions on things. The Liberal
29:17
Speaker 2: Parties I presume they won't until they have a review
29:20
Speaker 2: or they'll be forced though by legislation.
29:22
Speaker 3: As I say, I think it's.
29:23
Speaker 2: Just an unrealistic thing that's going to take months and months.
29:26
Speaker 2: But anyway, let's assume that you both go down the
29:28
Speaker 2: path of having your own separate policy positions when you
29:32
Speaker 2: come back to talk about a coalition, what do you
29:36
Speaker 2: do with the six or seven things over there? And
29:38
Speaker 2: they'll have six or seven where you can't meet anymore
29:41
Speaker 2: because you've not thrashed them out as you normally would
29:43
Speaker 2: around a shadow cabinet table. The longer you're a part,
29:47
Speaker 2: the harder it's going to be to come back together again.
29:52
Speaker 6: Well, that's potentially the case, Peter, and it's more in
29:54
Speaker 6: sorrow than anger that we've made this decision. We know
29:58
Speaker 6: we are as you you know, I'm a coalitionist. You
30:02
Speaker 6: know we're are a strong, stable government for our great
30:06
Speaker 6: country and we've been in government more often than we've
30:08
Speaker 6: been out of it in our eighty year coalition relationship.
30:12
Speaker 6: But at the end of the day, the partnership needs
30:15
Speaker 6: to be mutually beneficial for both parties.
30:18
Speaker 7: Now the Liberal Party.
30:20
Speaker 6: Yes, we were handed an historic defeat on May the third,
30:23
Speaker 6: but the reality is for the National Party, we've got
30:25
Speaker 6: a ten percent swing to us away from the Labor
30:28
Speaker 6: Party in a seat like Bendigo, a regional capital, so
30:32
Speaker 6: we want to take it up to Labor. We want
30:34
Speaker 6: to have a positive agenda going forward into the next
30:37
Speaker 6: three years and that will potentially mean there are more
30:41
Speaker 6: issues to resolve than less when the time arises that
30:46
Speaker 6: we come to renegotiate a coalition agreement.
30:48
Speaker 7: But today we made the decision.
30:52
Speaker 6: We respect our Liberal Party colleagues, David and Susan have
30:55
Speaker 6: made it clear that they'll continue to talk and that
30:59
Speaker 6: the doors always open, but that shouldn't stop us from
31:02
Speaker 6: taking it up to elbow on behalf of the people
31:05
Speaker 6: that send us here to Canberra, and we won't resilve
31:08
Speaker 6: from doing that.
31:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's rocky water ahead. You would know
31:14
Speaker 2: that though, bridget I'll over there. Thank you for your time.
31:17
Speaker 2: All right after break. John Anderson, former National Party federal
31:19
Speaker 2: leader of course party elder, joins me for his take
31:22
Speaker 2: on where two now plus the state of Victoria's debt
31:25
Speaker 2: matters to every Australian. It's no longer an economic powerhouse,
31:29
Speaker 2: and the most taxed people in the country are saying
31:32
Speaker 2: enough is enough, welcome back and state Labor government delivering
31:40
Speaker 2: a so called surplus today in its latest budget. My
31:43
Speaker 2: next guest has a real warning. Michael Brennan is a
31:46
Speaker 2: former Deputy Secretary the Victorian Treasury Department, also past chair
31:50
Speaker 2: of the Productivity Commission. And in our leads now heads
31:53
Speaker 2: up a leading economic think tank, E sixty one Institute.
31:58
Speaker 2: He joins me, Now, Michael, welcome, give me your headline
32:02
Speaker 2: assessment on Labour's budget that came down today. You've called
32:07
Speaker 2: for a course correction here two hundred billion dollars in debt,
32:12
Speaker 2: a surplus. It's basically just been written off the back
32:14
Speaker 2: of farmers in this new emergency services levy.
32:19
Speaker 3: What did you make of today's numbers?
32:22
Speaker 9: Look, I think if you rewind a few weeks, there
32:24
Speaker 9: was probably a point at which we felt that this
32:26
Speaker 9: would be a course correction, that there was going to
32:28
Speaker 9: be something different about this budget relative to what we
32:31
Speaker 9: have seen from recent budgets under Treasurer Tim Pallas. I
32:35
Speaker 9: think it's fair to say that in the end that
32:37
Speaker 9: turned out not to be the case. This was really
32:39
Speaker 9: more of the same. It was very much a budget
32:41
Speaker 9: that Tim Pallas himself could have brought down. The real
32:46
Speaker 9: issue for the Victorian government at the moment is debt.
32:48
Speaker 9: And although there is a return to an operating surplus,
32:51
Speaker 9: which is the first in six years, and it does
32:53
Speaker 9: beg the question should we really have taken six years
32:56
Speaker 9: to come back to surplus after the pandemic. But the
32:59
Speaker 9: big question is debt. Debt is now the equivalent of
33:01
Speaker 9: twenty five percent of the economy. That is a larger
33:04
Speaker 9: figure than was the case in the early nineteen nineties
33:07
Speaker 9: at the tail end of the can and Kernak governments.
33:10
Speaker 9: And when debt is that high, probably the best way
33:12
Speaker 9: to judge a budget is on the cash position. Are
33:15
Speaker 9: we adding to or de tracting from net debt? This
33:18
Speaker 9: budget continues to add to net debt. It adds another
33:21
Speaker 9: eight to ten billion dollars per year to net debt,
33:25
Speaker 9: and I think over time that is something that's going
33:27
Speaker 9: to continue to constrain the budget. The interest costs are
33:31
Speaker 9: now the fastest growing part of the budget, so I
33:33
Speaker 9: think this is something that's really becoming a bit of
33:36
Speaker 9: a burden for the taxpayer and for the government.
33:41
Speaker 3: And taxes more generally are a burden.
33:43
Speaker 2: I mean, Victorians are the most taxed residents of any
33:46
Speaker 2: state in the Commonwealth, and we know there's a heavy
33:49
Speaker 2: reliance on property taxes in Victorians driving investment into state
33:53
Speaker 2: and overseas. We know that the Ponzi scheme of immigrations
33:57
Speaker 2: also been something used by the state government. Their numbers.
34:00
Speaker 2: It's not doing a good job if they're at two
34:02
Speaker 2: hundred billion in terms of debt. But I mean, how
34:04
Speaker 2: on earth do you make inroads and this, How do
34:06
Speaker 2: you grow the economy in Victoria?
34:09
Speaker 9: Well, I think this is the struggle. So in many
34:11
Speaker 9: ways the options are narrowing for the government. They didn't
34:16
Speaker 9: introduce new taxes today, although of course they have just
34:19
Speaker 9: legislated this rather unpopular tax which was the subject of
34:22
Speaker 9: a protest at Parliament House today. But no new taxes
34:25
Speaker 9: in this budget. But of course, in one sense they've
34:28
Speaker 9: kind of maxed out the scope for new taxes. Taxes
34:32
Speaker 9: around six percent of grow state product. They are the
34:35
Speaker 9: highest in the country. It's really not clear that there's
34:38
Speaker 9: a lot of flexibility for them to raise extra revenue.
34:41
Speaker 9: The challenge now, of course, is if you want to
34:43
Speaker 9: reduce that tax burden. There is a trade off between
34:46
Speaker 9: doing that and getting the debt under control. That's something
34:49
Speaker 9: that's going to have to be managed over time and
34:52
Speaker 9: there's really no quick fix.
34:55
Speaker 2: All right, I leave it there. I know you've squeezed
34:58
Speaker 2: us in. You've got an engagement to go to. Thank
34:59
Speaker 2: you very much, Michael Brennan. Or let's go back to
35:02
Speaker 2: the issue of the coalition break up today and the
35:04
Speaker 2: implications it will have for conservative politics in Australia. Joining
35:08
Speaker 2: me in the now former National's Leader, former and Deputy
35:11
Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson. Well, John, you like me,
35:15
Speaker 2: are a strong coalitionist. You must be dismayed at what's
35:19
Speaker 2: happened today.
35:21
Speaker 8: I'm just made is what's happening in Australia, Peter. The
35:24
Speaker 8: reality is that we now face an unholy trifecta of
35:30
Speaker 8: epic proportions security, the economy and monstrous intergenerational theft. Because
35:40
Speaker 8: the economy is so weak, we can't live within our
35:42
Speaker 8: means and we are sacrificing our children's future. Therefore, the
35:48
Speaker 8: parties do not exist to serve themselves. They exist to
35:52
Speaker 8: serve the national interest. We've just been through an election
35:55
Speaker 8: which could have been one in my view, and I
35:59
Speaker 8: profoundly believe that to be true if we'd had the
36:01
Speaker 8: policies to address the issues that, once triggered in people's
36:05
Speaker 8: minds and understanding, they know have to be addressed if
36:08
Speaker 8: we are to halt our structural decline. Now, there's no
36:13
Speaker 8: doubt in my mind that experience shows over the eighty
36:17
Speaker 8: years that the coalition agreement has been in place that
36:20
Speaker 8: working together produces better government for the country, and Australian
36:26
Speaker 8: needs better government now more than ever. We are in
36:31
Speaker 8: danger of permanently entering structural decline, and this is happening
36:38
Speaker 8: in the context of a very dangerous world. So I
36:41
Speaker 8: hope they can sort their differences out very quickly. This
36:44
Speaker 8: is about the national need and the reality that we
36:47
Speaker 8: have a government that is simply not up to it.
36:52
Speaker 2: I made the point a bit earlier and the Leabs
36:54
Speaker 2: want four or five six months.
36:56
Speaker 3: To go through all their policies.
36:58
Speaker 2: They say they will not have a position on any
37:00
Speaker 2: anything in that time. I also say they'll be confronted
37:03
Speaker 2: by the reality when they return to the Parliament in
37:05
Speaker 2: July they will.
37:07
Speaker 3: Have to deal with issues.
37:08
Speaker 2: They'll have to do media, they'll have to vote on legislation.
37:11
Speaker 2: They don't have the luxury of not having a view
37:13
Speaker 2: on things until Christmas time. The Nats say, well, we
37:17
Speaker 2: couldn't wait around for that. We're not going to junk
37:18
Speaker 2: things like nuclear power and the four policies in contention
37:23
Speaker 2: were four policies that two weeks ago Liberals and Nationals
37:27
Speaker 2: were campaigning on in the electorate I mean, were the
37:31
Speaker 2: that's premature here or was this inevitable if the Libs
37:35
Speaker 2: weren't going to have positions before Christmas.
37:38
Speaker 8: I think it's quite simple. I think the issue is
37:40
Speaker 8: you've got to say what is threatening Australia and what
37:43
Speaker 8: are we going to do about it? And the issues
37:46
Speaker 8: that are being raised they're important, yes, I know, but
37:49
Speaker 8: the key issues now are They are security, They are
37:52
Speaker 8: into generational theft. They are the mismanagery economy, an out
37:56
Speaker 8: of date sack tax system, declining productivity. Until we fix those,
38:00
Speaker 8: they should have been the focus. They should have been
38:02
Speaker 8: the things. I'm sorry to say. I know I'm out
38:05
Speaker 8: of step with a lot of people who don't see
38:08
Speaker 8: the same concerns that I have that we are in
38:12
Speaker 8: serious structural and geopolitical danger. So I just have a
38:16
Speaker 8: different perspective on what the priorities ought to be. The
38:19
Speaker 8: parties don't exist to serve themselves. They exist to serve
38:22
Speaker 8: the nation and how best to do that? How best
38:25
Speaker 8: to do is to get together and actually focus on
38:28
Speaker 8: the real issues now. The problem that the National Party
38:30
Speaker 8: is faced when this has been done before, because it
38:32
Speaker 8: has been done before, is that the spokes that people
38:38
Speaker 8: have to be experts on everything cover so many portfolios.
38:41
Speaker 8: One of the beauties of coalition is that you can
38:43
Speaker 8: break up responsibility for the portfolios that are very important
38:46
Speaker 8: for everybody for each particular party. And that was one
38:51
Speaker 8: of the experiences that the National Party will now have
38:53
Speaker 8: to grapple with because in the past when this has
38:56
Speaker 8: been tried, it just exhausted shadow ministers or people with
39:00
Speaker 8: shadow responsibility. They said we couldn't manage four or fire
39:04
Speaker 8: portfolios once they ended up doing none of them properly.
39:09
Speaker 3: I guess.
39:11
Speaker 2: Part the risk John is the longer they are apart
39:15
Speaker 2: and they take additional and divergent policy positions, the harder
39:20
Speaker 2: it will be to get them back together again.
39:23
Speaker 8: Yes it will, and the higher the chance that we
39:28
Speaker 8: won't be able to turn around the structural decline into
39:31
Speaker 8: a South American style political and economic decline. That's the
39:35
Speaker 8: reality confronting Australia. We have the fastest collapsing living standards
39:39
Speaker 8: in the OECD. We have the most appalling taxation proposals
39:44
Speaker 8: before us that are going to drive investment away, introduce
39:47
Speaker 8: inequities that I don't see can ever actually be constitutionally valid.
39:51
Speaker 8: You know, if it's not robbery to presume our capital
39:56
Speaker 8: gains when they haven't been realized. I don't know what
39:59
Speaker 8: it is. Yes, anyway, the part is Australia faces really
40:04
Speaker 8: serious issues. Let's analyze what they are and go out
40:07
Speaker 8: and prosecute the case and the need to address them.
40:13
Speaker 3: We will leave it there. We will be talking.
40:14
Speaker 2: I'm sure about the lack of a coalition from here
40:17
Speaker 2: on in. Thank you John Anderson. All right, after the break,
40:20
Speaker 2: there's been a big deal with the UK Labor Party
40:22
Speaker 2: and the EU or UK government and the EU. Some
40:26
Speaker 2: are saying this is a retreat from Brexit.
40:29
Speaker 3: We'll get to that in a moment. Welcome back.
40:36
Speaker 2: At the same time, the Liberal Party here in Australia
40:38
Speaker 2: declined to restate its support of nuclear energy until after
40:43
Speaker 2: a review, forcing that split from the National Party. In Germany,
40:47
Speaker 2: they have officially dropped their opposition to nuclear energy. It
40:51
Speaker 2: is back on the table big time for that country.
40:55
Speaker 3: Very interesting, isn't it. Let's go to the UK now.
40:57
Speaker 2: Britain's Labor government there has struck a new agreement with
41:00
Speaker 2: the European Union. I aim to deproving relationships beyond Brexit,
41:04
Speaker 2: particularly in relation to trade, security and student mobility. Kia
41:09
Speaker 2: Stamers insisted the deal respects the spirit of Brexit while
41:13
Speaker 2: delivering practical benefits. Critics, though Conservative Party MPs, their leader
41:18
Speaker 2: Nigel Faraj and others, argue it marks a quiet retreat
41:22
Speaker 2: from Brexit itself. Some say it's a necessary reset, others
41:27
Speaker 2: say it's a betrayal.
41:29
Speaker 3: Join me now to unpack it all.
41:30
Speaker 2: Skinnese contributor Iron Hersiali I unwelcome to the show.
41:35
Speaker 3: Is this a.
41:36
Speaker 2: Windback of Brexit or a pragmatic adjustment?
41:43
Speaker 10: Well, Peter lovely to see you. It's of course non
41:45
Speaker 10: secret that Kiyos Stamer was for Russia's REMAINO when he
41:51
Speaker 10: was an MP, but in the leader to his election
41:55
Speaker 10: campaign he had promised to respect the Brexits outcome and
41:59
Speaker 10: this is wined berks, especially when it comes to migration,
42:03
Speaker 10: to borders, to bureaucracy.
42:05
Speaker 3: To regulation.
42:06
Speaker 10: He's handing everything back to the EU and that means
42:09
Speaker 10: the EU will now have the last word on those issues,
42:13
Speaker 10: and that is of course very upsetting for those people
42:15
Speaker 10: who campaigned for Brexit.
42:19
Speaker 2: And of course there were multiple elections on the issue
42:21
Speaker 2: and referendums on the issue of Brexit, and all of
42:24
Speaker 2: them came out in favor of walking away from the EU,
42:27
Speaker 2: of becoming a sovereign country. Already we can see labors
42:31
Speaker 2: on the nose that the Tories are struggling. Reform is
42:35
Speaker 2: in the ascendency, and the very issues that Starma has
42:38
Speaker 2: handed back to the European Union are the very issues
42:42
Speaker 2: when Nigel Faraja is gaining crowned. So what's this going
42:45
Speaker 2: to mean do you think for domestic politics in the UK.
42:50
Speaker 10: Well, the people who are looking at this and saying
42:53
Speaker 10: it's a betrayal and it's going to really make tensions worse,
42:56
Speaker 10: especially on the issues of immigration, using now words like
43:01
Speaker 10: irregular migration and that's a substitute for the word alien immigration.
43:06
Speaker 10: Last time you and I talked about how Britain was
43:09
Speaker 10: a tinder box and that the issue of immigration really
43:12
Speaker 10: must be addressed. And this seems to me as if
43:15
Speaker 10: it is an excuse not to address it, but to
43:18
Speaker 10: hand it back to the EU. Why did Britain. One
43:21
Speaker 10: of the reasons Britain left the EU was so that
43:23
Speaker 10: they could have the last word over their own rules,
43:26
Speaker 10: their own laws, and their own borders. And this, say
43:30
Speaker 10: brexitst campaigners, betrays all of that.
43:35
Speaker 2: So you think this will you know, end up putting
43:40
Speaker 2: Nigel Farage in Downing Street.
43:43
Speaker 10: I think Nigel Farage, the Reform Party and other challenges,
43:47
Speaker 10: but also Kemy Badenhock came out saying, you know, we
43:50
Speaker 10: have now become rule takers. So there is a very
43:53
Speaker 10: large and overwhelming majority that doesn't want to go back
43:56
Speaker 10: to the EU. The question then is we're a few
43:59
Speaker 10: years away from the election in Britain. Build the Conservatives
44:04
Speaker 10: and Nigel Farage's Reform Party work together to remove Kirsteimul
44:09
Speaker 10: from office. That's the question for the British electorate.
44:15
Speaker 3: Yes, it'd be very interesting.
44:16
Speaker 2: Can they form a coalition where we are failing here
44:18
Speaker 2: in Australia? I an hersy ali, thank you all right?
44:22
Speaker 2: After breaking Victorian Gavin accused of lying over this controversial
44:25
Speaker 2: new fire tax.
44:32
Speaker 3: Let's bring in my panel now.
44:34
Speaker 2: Liberal Senator for South Australia Alex Antique and Spectator Columbus
44:38
Speaker 2: Terry Barnes.
44:39
Speaker 3: Gents, welcome, will.
44:41
Speaker 2: Stay, We'll stay, We'll start if we can. Terry with
44:44
Speaker 2: a big protest in Melbourne today. Interestingly, a unionist, very
44:50
Speaker 2: powerful unionist, Peter Marshall, the head of the firefighters union.
44:53
Speaker 2: This is the Career Firefighters Union in front of the
44:56
Speaker 2: crowd today and he made it really clear that he
44:59
Speaker 2: didn't want five fighters their name.
45:01
Speaker 3: Used in vain.
45:02
Speaker 2: He says, this money being raised is not about funding
45:06
Speaker 2: fire services. It's a tax grab by our government. And
45:09
Speaker 2: I tell you those scenes of the city at a
45:11
Speaker 2: standstill took me right back to my UNI days in
45:15
Speaker 2: the Canaan Kerner area era when we had trams queued
45:19
Speaker 2: up all the way around the Melbourne CBD and the
45:23
Speaker 2: state belly of bankrupt almost you know, we've lost the
45:25
Speaker 2: State banquet, a whole lot of trouble and that anger
45:28
Speaker 2: then was the sort of anger I saw today.
45:31
Speaker 11: Well absolutely, and really it has that end of day's
45:34
Speaker 11: feeling down here in Melbourne, doesn't it. Peter, But certainly
45:37
Speaker 11: Peter Marshall, as the leader of the Firefighter's Union, friend
45:40
Speaker 11: of Daniel Andrews, actually got Daniel Andrews to overturn and
45:44
Speaker 11: upturn the fire service in Victoria to suit his members.
45:49
Speaker 11: As has now gone rog he's actually making the point,
45:52
Speaker 11: he's actually standing up for the country Firepighters, the CFA
45:55
Speaker 11: Firepighters that he tried to dud ten years ago, because
45:59
Speaker 11: that's the fire services Levy is absolutely disgraceful. I mean,
46:03
Speaker 11: as you said earlier in the program, it's actually taxing
46:06
Speaker 11: people for volunteering to help their own communities. I think
46:09
Speaker 11: if Brad Batten and the Victorian Liberals can actually keep
46:12
Speaker 11: their nerve and repeal it and promise to repeal it
46:16
Speaker 11: and follow through if they're elected, they're doing the right thing.
46:20
Speaker 3: And fight at it. It'll be the test, and fight
46:22
Speaker 3: at it.
46:22
Speaker 2: How Alex Antik, you are the only one on this
46:24
Speaker 2: panel who was a member of the coalition. Now, I
46:27
Speaker 2: was just a member of a Liberal party in opposition,
46:30
Speaker 2: although you are the official opposition party. What do you
46:33
Speaker 2: make of the events today in Canberra?
46:37
Speaker 12: Well, Peter, I was surprised after say, I was shocked,
46:41
Speaker 12: but look here we are. We're two weeks out from
46:45
Speaker 12: a pretty bad election result and there are going to
46:48
Speaker 12: be I think ructions and repositionings that should probably be expected.
46:52
Speaker 12: But this is an eighty year coalition which at least
46:55
Speaker 12: in the short term, has been brought to a close
46:58
Speaker 12: this morning, and that's a that's a sad thing. I
47:02
Speaker 12: don't really know. I wasn't privy to any of the
47:04
Speaker 12: discussions or the details, but I understand it was a
47:06
Speaker 12: decision of the Nationals for various reasons. I suspect one
47:11
Speaker 12: of them is energy policy, but I don't really know
47:16
Speaker 12: from our point of view. Of course, you know, yes,
47:18
Speaker 12: the Liberal Party is the official party of opposition now,
47:21
Speaker 12: but it's a good reminder to the party that and
47:23
Speaker 12: I have said this time and time again that we
47:25
Speaker 12: have to be cognizant of the sort of things that
47:28
Speaker 12: rural and regional communities are interested in. We are, I think,
47:30
Speaker 12: but we have some very good rural and regional members.
47:33
Speaker 12: But issues like net zero are the sort of thing,
47:37
Speaker 12: the sort of battleground I think which the Liberal Party
47:39
Speaker 12: now needs to roll up the sleeves and fight on
47:42
Speaker 12: and reject. And so to the extent that it requires
47:46
Speaker 12: a bit of repositioning and resisting of drifting towards simply
47:50
Speaker 12: appealing inner city seats. Look, that may well be something
47:53
Speaker 12: that needs to be taken into account and considered.
47:59
Speaker 2: I made the point that bring Terry in on this.
48:00
Speaker 2: I made the point that I've done three of these
48:02
Speaker 2: coalition agreements or being in the room when they're negotiated
48:05
Speaker 2: in the past, but also coming out of election defeats
48:08
Speaker 2: though seven twenty ten and beyond It's always been the
48:11
Speaker 2: way that every policy stands unless it's specifically repudiated. What
48:16
Speaker 2: Susan Lee is doing differently this time is saying, well,
48:19
Speaker 2: nothing stands. We don't have any policies out there until
48:22
Speaker 2: after the review and we'll restate them now. I don't
48:25
Speaker 2: know how your survive opposition like that. You'll be back
48:28
Speaker 2: in Parliament soon, they'll be bills to deal with. You're
48:31
Speaker 2: not going to run everything through your shadow cabinet. You've
48:33
Speaker 2: got to have some parameters there. And if the biggest
48:36
Speaker 2: one of those, the sticking point here today was it
48:38
Speaker 2: was nuclear energy. I mean, seriously, Terry, are the limbs
48:42
Speaker 2: saying that they're prepared to junk their position on nuclear
48:44
Speaker 2: because if they are, I think they're.
48:47
Speaker 3: In all sorts of trouble.
48:48
Speaker 11: Well, it certainly sounds to me like that Peter, that
48:50
Speaker 11: they're prepared to actually go to war over it. And
48:53
Speaker 11: that's a real worry. And my sense also is that
48:56
Speaker 11: given that the Liberal Party MPs are very tell us
49:00
Speaker 11: of their sovereignty over policy in terms of dictating the
49:02
Speaker 11: party what that policy is, and the moderates have a
49:05
Speaker 11: majority in the current party room, I mean, this could
49:09
Speaker 11: be on for young and old. But the other thing
49:11
Speaker 11: about breaking the coalition, I think the Nats could have waited,
49:15
Speaker 11: They could have actually gone a bit before they took
49:17
Speaker 11: this step. But because I think one thing that National
49:20
Speaker 11: Party has always done is with its innate conservatism, it's
49:23
Speaker 11: been a break on the effe socially liberal and frolics
49:28
Speaker 11: of the Liberal Party, particularly the left of Liberal Party.
49:30
Speaker 11: So without them being there in the coalition, what's going
49:34
Speaker 11: to happen over next little while. I really fear for
49:37
Speaker 11: the Liberal.
49:37
Speaker 3: Party alex So just about out a time.
49:39
Speaker 2: And I made the point earlier that Germany today has
49:41
Speaker 2: dropped its official opposition to nuclear just at the time.
49:44
Speaker 2: The Lips can't say whether they'refore or against it. They
49:46
Speaker 2: were for two weeks ago for or against it, and
49:49
Speaker 2: Nats are for it.
49:50
Speaker 3: What happens if the Liberal Party wants to dump it,
49:51
Speaker 3: what are you going to do?
49:55
Speaker 1: Well?
49:55
Speaker 12: I've been supportive of nuclear since day one. I talked
49:58
Speaker 12: about it in my maiden speech and continue to advocate
50:00
Speaker 12: for it in line with another a whole range of
50:03
Speaker 12: different energy policies. I mean, it's not just nuclear. As
50:06
Speaker 12: Matt Canavan always said when he was in the coalition
50:08
Speaker 12: party room, it's not just nuclear. We need to be
50:11
Speaker 12: using all of our resources and will continue to advocate
50:14
Speaker 12: for that.
50:16
Speaker 3: All right, I'll over there. Thank you both very much.
50:19
Speaker 3: That's it for me, see you tomorrow night.