Latest / V / Tackling Trump Derangement This Thanksgiving: Evita + Michael Knowles (Ep.94)

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Tackling Trump Derangement This Thanksgiving: Evita + Michael Knowles (Ep.94) · V

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to Bongina Report Early Edition. Today we are joined
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Speaker 1: by a special guest, Michael Knowles of the Michael Knowles Show.
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Speaker 1: And I'm really excited for this conversation because Michael is
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Speaker 1: somebody that I have been listening to for a really
0:13
Speaker 1: long time. He's one of those podcasters who you can
0:17
Speaker 1: credit with showing a lot of young people the political
0:20
Speaker 1: light because he arguably, I think, brings some of the
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Speaker 1: most thoughtful commentary to the culture war. So with that, Michael,
0:27
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here.
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Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That's a very, very kind introduction.
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Speaker 3: I appreciate it. I want to get that on tape
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Speaker 3: so I can play it to myself every morning.
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Speaker 1: Of course. Well, okay, Michael, we talked a little bit
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Speaker 1: before the show started about Thanksgiving. You're going home to
0:41
Speaker 1: your liberal family. I have a liberal family as well.
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Speaker 1: And I want to start off this show by playing
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Speaker 1: this viral video that you made back in 2022 after Trump.
0:52
Speaker 1: announced that he's running again. Producer Michael, can we play that?
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Speaker 3: Breeze drifting on by.
1:01
Speaker 2: You know how I feel It's a new.
1:05
Speaker 1: Dawn It's a new day It's a new life For
1:12
Speaker 1: me So.
1:21
Speaker 2: You guys hear Trump's running again? And I'm feeling good.
1:30
Speaker 4: I'm feeling good.
1:43
Speaker 2: Fish in the sea, you know how I feel.
1:49
Speaker 1: If you're listening, you guys, you're going to see just
1:52
Speaker 1: a bunch of sort of stereotypical, liberal-looking family members flipping
1:57
Speaker 1: out over Michael saying, did you hear that? Trump's running again.
2:00
Speaker 1: Awesome video. Michael, how contentious do you think this Thanksgiving
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Speaker 1: is going to be for politically mixed families?
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Speaker 3: Well, that video you just played is a documentary, so
2:12
Speaker 3: that's entirely accurate and literally true. For most people, I
2:17
Speaker 3: actually don't think it's going to be all that difficult.
2:20
Speaker 3: Happily for me, I've known my family and my in-laws,
2:24
Speaker 3: for that matter, since I was a little boy. So
2:26
Speaker 3: they've come to terms with my being slightly to the
2:28
Speaker 3: right of Genghis Khan. For a lot of other families, though,
2:32
Speaker 3: I would say in 2016 and 2020, it was a
2:35
Speaker 3: lot tougher. And you heard all these accusations that Trump
2:38
Speaker 3: is a Hitler and you support the end of democracy
2:40
Speaker 3: if you voted for him or anything. I don't think
2:42
Speaker 3: you're going to see a lot of that this time.
2:44
Speaker 3: And you're not going to see that because most Americans
2:47
Speaker 3: voted for Trump. Because one in five black guys voted
2:50
Speaker 3: for Trump. Because 46% of Hispanics voted for Trump. Because
2:54
Speaker 3: married women voted for Trump. Because 40% of women under
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Speaker 3: the age of 30 voted for Trump. Because I'm not
3:00
Speaker 3: saying everybody voted for Trump, but he won a good chunk,
3:04
Speaker 3: at least, of everybody. And so there's no argument to
3:08
Speaker 3: make here. You can't call him sexist. You can't call
3:10
Speaker 3: him racist. You can't call him a threat to democracy.
3:14
Speaker 3: It's all bunk. And so I think where the real
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Speaker 3: turmoil is now, it's not really at your Thanksgiving table.
3:20
Speaker 3: It's in the boardrooms of CNN and MSNBC and all
3:25
Speaker 3: the leftists and the liars who were peddling total nonsense
3:29
Speaker 3: about Trump and who screwed up our Thanksgiving in years past.
3:31
Speaker 3: Those guys are the ones who are dealing with a
3:33
Speaker 3: reckoning right now. For most libs who are of good
3:37
Speaker 3: faith and who have even a couple brain cells to
3:38
Speaker 3: rub together, I think they're going to be like another,
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Speaker 3: a number of members of my family, actually, were very
3:44
Speaker 3: liberal who hate Trump, but who said, you know, maybe
3:46
Speaker 3: we were missing something. If most Americans voted for this guy,
3:50
Speaker 3: something must have been off in our calculation.
3:53
Speaker 1: I do think you're right that a lot of the
3:55
Speaker 1: Trump derangement seems to be from a very small minority
3:59
Speaker 1: of people on the internet, like you said, the people
4:01
Speaker 1: on CNN. maybe the ladies of The View, even some
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Speaker 1: crazies that get featured on lives of TikTok. But most people,
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Speaker 1: most normal people are not that politically unhinged. I will
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Speaker 1: say that there is a lot of disinformation around Thanksgiving
4:17
Speaker 1: and the holiday and why we celebrate it. And we've
4:19
Speaker 1: had that for a long time as a young person.
4:22
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm 24. A lot of us grew up
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Speaker 1: hearing that America is inherently racist for a really long
4:30
Speaker 1: time since we were in kindergarten. And I do have
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Speaker 1: some friends and family who will say, particularly I have
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Speaker 1: Native American family, who will say, I'm not gonna celebrate Thanksgiving.
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Speaker 1: America's rooted in genocide and the exploitation of indigenous peoples.
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Speaker 1: What's your response to people like that? Is the legacy
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Speaker 1: of Thanksgiving in America actually racism?
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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know which Native American tribe you descend from,
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Speaker 3: but if they were any members of the tribes around
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Speaker 3: Plymouth Colony, then it's kind of strange that the descendants
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Speaker 3: wouldn't celebrate Thanksgiving because their ancestors did. Thanksgiving was a
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Speaker 3: celebration between the Native American Indians and the English settlers.
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Speaker 2: You know, I am particularly interested in that holiday.
5:17
Speaker 3: I even have a cigar company named after that group
5:20
Speaker 3: of people, the Mayflower, because some of my ancestors came
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Speaker 3: on the Mayflower.
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Speaker 2: Mine too. Yours as well. So you get both sides.
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Speaker 3: I don't have any of the Native Americans in there,
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Speaker 3: But it means that if you've got a personal connection,
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Speaker 3: you've probably looked a little bit into the story here.
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Speaker 2: And the story that the Libs.
5:39
Speaker 3: Tell about Thanksgiving and the pilgrims and the Indians is
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Speaker 3: wrong and stupid. And it's disrespectful not only to the English,
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Speaker 3: but also to the Indians. The way the Libs tell
5:50
Speaker 3: this story, it was these poor passive Indians who were
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Speaker 3: just all singing Kumbaya and then the nasty English showed
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Speaker 3: up and stole their corn and shot them all and
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Speaker 3: gave them smallpox or something. And that's not really what happened.
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Speaker 3: These Indians were serious men. They were real statesmen. They
6:03
Speaker 3: formed alliances with some of the English. You know, I
6:07
Speaker 3: think especially of Massasoit, the head of what became the
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Speaker 3: Wampanoag Nation. He made a really shrewd and prudent alliance
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Speaker 3: with Governor Bradford, with men like Edward Winslow, who ended
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Speaker 3: up saving Massasoit's life when Massasoit lay dying. Edward Winslow
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Speaker 3: made him a broth, brought him back to health. Massasoit
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Speaker 3: then confided in him that the Massachusetts Indians were seeking
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Speaker 3: to destroy the Plymouth colony. So the Plymouth and the
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Speaker 3: Wampanoags teamed up. They fought off some of the other Indians.
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Speaker 3: It was to the benefit of the Wampanoag nation. It
6:37
Speaker 3: was to the benefit of the Plymouth colony. I think
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Speaker 3: it served the cause of justice. When the Indian-English relations
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Speaker 3: really broke down, I'm so animated here, I'm knocking my
6:47
Speaker 3: lighter over on my desk. When the relations between the
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Speaker 3: English and the Wampanoag broke down, it was really because
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Speaker 3: of King Philip. a child of Massasoit, who mistakenly believed
6:58
Speaker 3: that the English had killed his brother. And there's really
7:00
Speaker 3: no evidence that it happened. His brother, I think, just
7:02
Speaker 3: got sick. And so this led to King Philip's War,
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Speaker 3: which irreparably destroyed the relations in that area.
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Speaker 2: And it was unfortunate. You like to think it might
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Speaker 2: not have happened.
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Speaker 3: But It doesn't erase everything that had happened for decades prior,
7:18
Speaker 3: you know, and it doesn't diminish the humanity of the
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Speaker 3: Indians who were smart guys who played good politics, who
7:25
Speaker 3: in many ways did the right thing. The real story
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Speaker 3: is so much more interesting, so much richer than the
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Speaker 3: ridiculous anti-American propaganda that the left tells us.
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Speaker 1: And you just think, what other country in the world
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Speaker 1: has a holiday dedicated to giving thanks? It's really a
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Speaker 1: beautiful thing that we have here and that it's demonized
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Speaker 1: by mostly the education system and also the culture is
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Speaker 1: just terrible. And I wonder, Michael, what do you think
7:56
Speaker 1: we should advocate for if you're a parent, if you're
7:59
Speaker 1: a grandparent, you're interested in the school system to kind
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Speaker 1: of root out this rot that is misinforming so many
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Speaker 1: young people about our history, about our heritage, and just
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Speaker 1: about what it means to be an American and especially
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Speaker 1: this holiday?
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Speaker 3: Well, I think you've really hit the nail on the
8:18
Speaker 3: head here. The other reason the Libs hate Thanksgiving is
8:21
Speaker 3: because they hate God. And Thanksgiving is all about giving
8:23
Speaker 3: thanks to God for his blessings, for his providence, for.
8:28
Speaker 2: Being who he is.
8:30
Speaker 3: And so, you know, right there you get to the
8:33
Speaker 3: heart of the educational rot in America, which is that
8:35
Speaker 3: in the middle of the 20th century, they took the
8:38
Speaker 3: Bible out of schools and prayer out of schools. The
8:40
Speaker 3: Supreme Court did this. for no reason whatsoever. There was
8:43
Speaker 3: no constitutional justification for it. It was because of radical
8:47
Speaker 3: leftist advocacy, which had gone on for decades. But the
8:51
Speaker 3: very fact that Thanksgiving occurred and that we celebrated Thanksgiving,
8:55
Speaker 3: that George Washington then, after the founding era, established this
9:00
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving proclamation and holiday and that it has persevered throughout America,
9:06
Speaker 3: it reminds us that we're a nation founded to be
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Speaker 3: Christian and we're a nation founded to give thanks to God.
9:11
Speaker 3: The pilgrims were extremely zealous Christians of a certain kind.
9:16
Speaker 3: The Puritans who followed them, I think of John Winthrop, well,
9:19
Speaker 3: he established that colony to be a model of Christian charity,
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Speaker 3: a shining city on a hill, as Ronald Reagan liked
9:26
Speaker 3: to quote. In God we trust is on our money.
9:29
Speaker 3: It's in our national anthem. It's in the Star Spangled Banner.
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Speaker 3: And it's just a Christian country. I don't know how
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Speaker 3: else to put it. So the Libs want to deny that.
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Speaker 3: And one way they deny that is by pulling the
9:41
Speaker 3: Bible and prayer out of schools. They do this because
9:45
Speaker 3: they say that America is supposed to be secular or
9:47
Speaker 3: atheist or something like that, but it can't be. Also
9:50
Speaker 3: because the purpose of education is to make students smarter
9:55
Speaker 3: and better behaved and in greater control of their passions
9:58
Speaker 3: and able to make sense of their freedom. It is
10:01
Speaker 3: simply not possible to be educated if you haven't read
10:04
Speaker 3: the greatest book and most important book ever written. Even
10:07
Speaker 3: if you're a huge atheist, it's just not possible to
10:09
Speaker 3: call yourself an educated person if you are not familiar
10:12
Speaker 3: with the most influential book of all time, namely the Bible.
10:16
Speaker 3: And then furthermore, it is not possible to have a
10:18
Speaker 3: good education if you set out divorcing yourself from the
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Speaker 3: source and summit of all truth, namely God. So that's
10:26
Speaker 3: why the education system has really cratered exactly over the
10:30
Speaker 3: period of time since we've removed the Bible from schools.
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Speaker 3: What should we do about that? One, you're seeing people
10:35
Speaker 3: homeschool more and more, as my family does, as many
10:39
Speaker 3: families do. You're seeing the growth of charter schools and
10:43
Speaker 3: private schools and even homeschool pods that are kind of
10:45
Speaker 3: hybrids between homeschooling and private school. But now you're seeing
10:49
Speaker 3: a big push from the Trump administration to reform the
10:52
Speaker 3: education system. You're seeing a push from Ryan Walters out
10:55
Speaker 3: of Oklahoma to put the Bible back in schools.
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Speaker 2: I think that's fabulous.
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Speaker 3: You're seeing a push to include more Christian aspects in
11:02
Speaker 3: their curricula in elementary schools.
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Speaker 2: So it's happening.
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Speaker 3: People realize that education, as we've known it for 70 years,
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Speaker 3: is a total flop. Even just in the 40-year period
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Speaker 3: since we've had the Department of Education We've seen America's
11:16
Speaker 3: test scores decline. American students have gotten stupider and less educated.
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Speaker 3: So education hasn't been achieving its ends. Time to try
11:24
Speaker 3: something new.
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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more about God being taken
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Speaker 1: out of the school system and that being the root
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Speaker 1: of the problem. I went to Catholic school growing up,
11:32
Speaker 1: so I always had a Christian perspective. And then I
11:36
Speaker 1: went to a secular college, the University of Chicago. And
11:40
Speaker 1: suddenly I was reading Foucault and Derrida, and I was
11:43
Speaker 1: really confused. What am I looking at? What am I
11:45
Speaker 1: dealing with? And I knew that there was something wrong
11:48
Speaker 1: with the conclusions that were being drawn by these sort
11:51
Speaker 1: of postmodern fake philosophers that were being thrown at me.
11:56
Speaker 1: But I couldn't exactly articulate what it was. And so
12:00
Speaker 1: then one of my first essays, I asked my professor,
12:03
Speaker 1: can I write about why truth exists? Because it was
12:06
Speaker 1: just the most, like it was the inherent, I think,
12:08
Speaker 1: problem with everything that I was reading. And then she said, well,
12:11
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a very interesting question. And then
12:13
Speaker 1: I realized, oh, OK, so I'm not coming to school
12:15
Speaker 1: to learn or pursue the truth at all. And I
12:18
Speaker 1: think you're right. The reason that that's happened over the
12:20
Speaker 1: years is because there is no grounding in religion or
12:25
Speaker 1: a higher power in orienting toward Christ in our school
12:29
Speaker 1: system like it has been for hundreds of years during
12:33
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages when the university system was first created.
12:37
Speaker 1: And I wonder, America's changing a lot. We're seeing this
12:41
Speaker 1: growth of populism, not just here, but also abroad, in
12:46
Speaker 1: the West, in Western Europe, in Eastern Europe, even in Japan.
12:51
Speaker 1: And some places where I see it being really successful
12:54
Speaker 1: are places like Hungary, even like the Vox Party in Spain,
12:59
Speaker 1: where they're really leaning into their Christian faith. heritage, where
13:03
Speaker 1: it's a populist movement of the people, but there is
13:07
Speaker 1: a deep respect and a desire to return to the
13:10
Speaker 1: mores of their past, of their founding. What do you
13:15
Speaker 1: think we can do to incorporate that in this new
13:18
Speaker 1: American populist movement? Because I love Tulsi Gabbard. I love
13:22
Speaker 1: RFK Jr. I love this new coalition that Trump's creating.
13:25
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I can't help but notice
13:28
Speaker 1: that the Christian founding seems to be somewhat missing from it. Yes.
13:34
Speaker 3: The current American right is united by basically one thing,
13:40
Speaker 3: which is our revulsion at castrating children. That's about it.
13:45
Speaker 3: And I don't mean to diminish that. I find it
13:47
Speaker 3: genuinely revolting. But we're not even united by our revulsion
13:51
Speaker 3: at transvestitism or something like that, because there are plenty
13:54
Speaker 3: of people in there who seem to have no problem
13:56
Speaker 3: with transgenderism. You can castrate yourself as long as you're
13:59
Speaker 3: 17 years old first, you know, then consenting adults can
14:02
Speaker 3: do whatever they want or whatever they say. And that's
14:04
Speaker 3: totally crazy. So it is distinctly an anti-woke coalition. And
14:08
Speaker 3: it really pretty much just comes down to that one issue.
14:11
Speaker 3: We disagree over tariffs and trade, immigration to some degree, feminism, everything.
14:18
Speaker 3: You know, we disagree over how we take our coffee,
14:20
Speaker 3: but that's the one issue that unites us. So at
14:22
Speaker 3: a certain point, we're going to have to be for something.
14:25
Speaker 3: And I think you're quite right that a serious, good,
14:31
Speaker 3: popular movement is going to have to be grounded in God.
14:35
Speaker 3: It's going to have to be, it's going to have
14:37
Speaker 3: to spring from the Christian heritage of our country and
14:40
Speaker 3: of our whole civilization. You mentioned Hungary, you mentioned the
14:43
Speaker 3: Vox Party in Spain. I think even of the major
14:46
Speaker 3: Polish resistance during the Soviet Union, during Soviet oppression, you
14:51
Speaker 3: had 2 million people show up for mass as Pope
14:54
Speaker 3: John Paul II is saying mass, and they chanted three
14:56
Speaker 3: simple words, we want God.
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Speaker 2: It's really as simple as that. So I think that's
15:02
Speaker 2: what we need.
15:04
Speaker 3: Trump has this amazing political ability to bring together people
15:08
Speaker 3: who have differing and even opposing views. I even just
15:11
Speaker 3: think on economic policy. So many of his top economic
15:15
Speaker 3: advisors are in favor of tariffs. Then one of the
15:17
Speaker 3: most brilliant surrogates and supporters for Trump this cycle, Vivek Ramaswamy,
15:22
Speaker 3: has campaigned actively against tariffs. He still is in favor
15:26
Speaker 3: of a freer kind of trade. So what does Trump do?
15:28
Speaker 3: Does he tell the tariff guys to pound sand? Does
15:30
Speaker 3: he tell Vivek to get lost? No, he brings both
15:33
Speaker 3: of them together and has them play to their strengths.
15:35
Speaker 3: So he does still have pro-tariff people in serious economic positions,
15:39
Speaker 3: now notably Treasury Secretary. But then he puts Vivek in
15:42
Speaker 3: charge alongside Elon Musk of Doge, which is all about
15:46
Speaker 3: cutting red tape, cutting regulation, tearing down these inefficient government agencies.
15:50
Speaker 3: He has people doing the things that they are good at.
15:53
Speaker 3: I think of his national security advisor, Mike Waltz. Mike
15:55
Speaker 3: Waltz is kind of squishy on domestic issues, but domestic
15:59
Speaker 3: issues don't really matter if you're in the position of NSA.
16:03
Speaker 3: You look down the list, Trump is good at bringing
16:05
Speaker 3: together these sorts of opposites. But then once President Trump
16:09
Speaker 3: gives us the reprieve, you know, once I really give
16:12
Speaker 3: thanks to God that he saved us from what I
16:14
Speaker 3: think would have been a truly damaging administration had Kamala won,
16:19
Speaker 3: not to mention humiliating if we had that woman leading
16:21
Speaker 3: our country. But, you know, we got this reprieve. Okay,
16:25
Speaker 3: we get the reset. We clear out some of the
16:27
Speaker 3: government nonsense. We push some of the radical policies.
16:31
Speaker 2: Out of our government.
16:32
Speaker 3: OK, now what are we for? You know, you've got
16:35
Speaker 3: the libertarians, the neocons, the traditionalists, the this, the that.
16:39
Speaker 3: You get 100 conservatives in a room, they're going to
16:41
Speaker 3: find the one thing they all disagree on. I once
16:43
Speaker 3: heard these obscure political monikers referred to as the right
16:46
Speaker 3: wing version of gender pronouns.
16:49
Speaker 2: Everyone seems to have their own. But so what can
16:52
Speaker 2: we all agree on?
16:53
Speaker 3: I think ultimately it has to come back to a
16:55
Speaker 3: classical conception of politics, has to come back to the
16:58
Speaker 3: natural law at least, which is we want to do
17:01
Speaker 3: good and avoid evil. And if you want to know
17:04
Speaker 3: how to do that, if you want to have a
17:06
Speaker 3: coherent version of that, then it's got to come down to,
17:09
Speaker 3: at the very least, we should all agree we love God,
17:12
Speaker 3: we're pro-God, we want more good, less evil, go forth,
17:18
Speaker 3: Western soldier.
17:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I Something that makes me sort of optimistic
17:23
Speaker 1: about everything that you just said is, okay, we need God.
17:26
Speaker 1: How do we get him to be part of this movement?
17:28
Speaker 1: How do we incorporate our founding heritage, our Christian founding
17:33
Speaker 1: heritage into this populist new uprising that we're seeing in
17:36
Speaker 1: America and across the West? And I think you covered
17:40
Speaker 1: this on your show as well, and I covered it
17:42
Speaker 1: on mine, that young Catholic girls are bringing back chapel veils.
17:47
Speaker 1: I think it was an article in the Free Press
17:49
Speaker 1: talking about it, which was really, it was awesome for
17:52
Speaker 1: me to read because I've been wearing a chapel veil
17:55
Speaker 1: for a while now before the article came out, even
17:58
Speaker 1: to the Novus Ordo Mass. And I think it's a
18:01
Speaker 1: symbol that a lot of young people especially are thirsting
18:06
Speaker 1: for tradition. They are thirsting for a very, a much
18:11
Speaker 1: more militant form of Christianity than we've seen in the
18:14
Speaker 1: past that's sort of going through the motions not very zealous.
18:18
Speaker 1: And I wonder if you've noticed that too. And if
18:20
Speaker 1: you think there's a way to sort of harness this
18:23
Speaker 1: desire in young people for a much more Christian lifestyle. Yes.
18:30
Speaker 3: First, be still my beating heart with the Manteas. I
18:32
Speaker 3: absolutely love them. They're traditional and they're beautiful and they're
18:35
Speaker 3: scriptural and they're great.
18:37
Speaker 1: And by the way, can I just say that if
18:38
Speaker 1: you're a Protestant, you can also wear a chapel veil.
18:41
Speaker 1: It's a Christian tradition. It's not just Catholic. Sorry. Go ahead, Michael.
18:44
Speaker 2: It is.
18:45
Speaker 3: And so when you bring this up, what are people
18:47
Speaker 3: seeking here? You say it's a more militant kind of Christianity.
18:50
Speaker 3: And sure enough, there probably are too many pacifists in
18:53
Speaker 3: the church militant.
18:54
Speaker 2: You know, that's what we are here on earth.
18:55
Speaker 3: But even more than militancy, I think what people want
18:59
Speaker 3: is a fuller expression of Christianity. They don't want their
19:03
Speaker 3: religion to be just one little thing they do for
19:05
Speaker 3: an hour on Sunday, if that.
19:07
Speaker 2: But they want to really live the fullness of truth.
19:10
Speaker 2: And how do we do that? First of all, why
19:13
Speaker 2: do people veil in church? It comes from St.
19:16
Speaker 3: Paul.
19:16
Speaker 1: St.
19:16
Speaker 3: Paul tells women to do that. And it comes from 2,000
19:18
Speaker 3: years of church tradition. And it comes from a kind
19:21
Speaker 3: of modesty and a humility. And it's really just beautiful.
19:25
Speaker 3: But then furthermore, why are you seeing a revival of
19:29
Speaker 3: fuller liturgy? In the Catholic Church, you have the revival
19:31
Speaker 3: of the traditional Latin mass, the mass of the ages
19:33
Speaker 3: of statistically most or all of the saints. But even Protestants,
19:38
Speaker 3: I think, are seeking out more liturgical traditions and Eastern
19:41
Speaker 3: Orthodox as well. Why?
19:43
Speaker 2: Why is that?
19:45
Speaker 3: It's because, well, religion looks like something, you know. something
19:50
Speaker 3: we do in our minds. It's one of the particular
19:52
Speaker 3: heresies of our modern age that we think our body
19:55
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with who we really are and
19:56
Speaker 3: we think that time doesn't matter. For instance, to use
19:59
Speaker 3: the popular example, we now think that we can be
20:02
Speaker 3: the opposite sex, that our body doesn't affect our identity.
20:06
Speaker 3: And that's just not true. We're incarnate creatures. We're hylomorphic beings, body, soul,
20:10
Speaker 3: and spirit. And so we're mortal. We live in time
20:14
Speaker 3: and space. And so we got to do stuff. You know,
20:17
Speaker 3: the iconoclasts want to get rid of all of the images,
20:20
Speaker 3: all of the aids to our worship. They say, forget
20:22
Speaker 3: about all imagery. But then you just close your eyes.
20:24
Speaker 3: Even if you're in a totally sterile room, you're going
20:27
Speaker 3: to have some image of God. You know, that's just
20:29
Speaker 3: how we're human beings. We communicate through symbols. You know,
20:34
Speaker 3: we like smells, we like bells, because we need sacraments,
20:38
Speaker 3: in fact, because we need the meeting of the physical
20:41
Speaker 3: and the metaphysical, just as we are the meeting of
20:43
Speaker 3: body and spirit.
20:45
Speaker 2: These things are just inevitable.
20:47
Speaker 3: And there's an irony, especially as we talk now about Thanksgiving,
20:51
Speaker 3: that as we've tried to get rid of holidays, feast days,
20:55
Speaker 3: we see them come back. A priest friend of mine
20:58
Speaker 3: made this point just last Sunday. Some of my ancestors,
21:01
Speaker 3: your ancestors as well, who were puritanical, who wanted to
21:04
Speaker 3: get rid of all the feast days. You think the
21:06
Speaker 3: pilgrims at Plymouth, they wanted to cancel Christmas and Easter.
21:10
Speaker 3: They said, no feast days.
21:12
Speaker 2: It's pagan. It's outrageous.
21:14
Speaker 3: It's anti-Christian. And then what do they do? They are
21:16
Speaker 3: responsible for the establishment of one of the most prominent,
21:20
Speaker 3: famous feast days in the world. It's not a traditional
21:23
Speaker 3: Christian feast day. They just made their own feast day
21:25
Speaker 3: to celebrate their own actions. And I don't knock them
21:28
Speaker 3: for it.
21:28
Speaker 2: Feast days are ridiculous. natural.
21:31
Speaker 3: They're not something to be avoided. We want good feast
21:35
Speaker 3: days to celebrate God. We don't want bacchanals like the
21:37
Speaker 3: ancient pagans had. We don't want to be pulling people's
21:40
Speaker 3: hearts out of their chests and rolling them down Tenochtitlan
21:43
Speaker 3: as the Aztecs did. We want good feasts, but feasts
21:46
Speaker 3: in themselves are a good thing. Images in themselves are
21:49
Speaker 3: a good thing. Signs and symbols, these can be very,
21:53
Speaker 3: very good things. We are human beings. We are fundamentally
21:56
Speaker 3: religious creatures, and we are going to express our religious
22:01
Speaker 3: longings one way or the other might as well be
22:04
Speaker 3: in a way that is conducive to our sanctification and
22:08
Speaker 3: ultimately to, you know, knowing God and worshiping him forever.
22:13
Speaker 1: There's something so beautiful. You're talking about feast days and
22:16
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about, I don't have a Latin mass in
22:19
Speaker 1: my area anymore, but I used to, when I was
22:21
Speaker 1: in high school, I used to sing in the Latin
22:22
Speaker 1: mass choir. I also went to Latin mass in Chicago
22:25
Speaker 1: and then Cardinal Cupich shut down my church, which sucked.
22:28
Speaker 1: He's a, he, he's not, He's probably the worst cardinal
22:31
Speaker 1: in America. I'm just going to say it. He sucks.
22:34
Speaker 1: But it was really wonderful to have all of these
22:38
Speaker 1: feast days. And not only did we celebrate as a community,
22:40
Speaker 1: but we brought the feast days out into the community.
22:43
Speaker 1: We would process through the streets in honor of whatever
22:48
Speaker 1: respective Christian holiday we were celebrating. And you don't see
22:53
Speaker 1: that anymore. You really don't. And I think that that
22:56
Speaker 1: is something that we could bring back. So the really
23:00
Speaker 1: traditional churches will do it, but even Protestant sects and
23:04
Speaker 1: more secular Catholic churches should be processing through the streets
23:09
Speaker 1: and making a show of our faith instead of rescinding
23:12
Speaker 1: into the shadows and, I don't know, pretending like we
23:17
Speaker 1: don't have a role to play openly in society. I
23:20
Speaker 1: don't know, what are your thoughts on that, Michael?
23:23
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you. We do processions at my parish.
23:27
Speaker 3: It's a little bit more of a traditional parish. And
23:30
Speaker 3: so we'll do the beating the bounds. And I remember
23:31
Speaker 3: we were doing the beating the bounds where you walk
23:33
Speaker 3: the whole perimeter of the parish. And a Protestant came,
23:36
Speaker 3: it was an Anglican, who said that he wanted to
23:39
Speaker 3: bring this back to his Protestant parish because it's so beautiful.
23:44
Speaker 3: And it not only unites a parish, but it's also
23:48
Speaker 3: an evangelizing activity. And it recognizes what we've been talking about,
23:51
Speaker 3: which is that We're flesh and blood and we move
23:54
Speaker 3: in time and space. And religious life is not just
23:56
Speaker 3: something you think about in your head or something you
23:59
Speaker 3: feel in your appetites.
24:01
Speaker 2: Religious life is.
24:01
Speaker 3: Something you do. And faith without works is dead. And
24:06
Speaker 3: you do judge the tree by its fruit. And so
24:08
Speaker 3: you want to be fruitful and you want to evangelize.
24:11
Speaker 3: And we don't do it alone.
24:13
Speaker 2: You know, where two or more are gathered, that's where
24:15
Speaker 2: our Lord is.
24:16
Speaker 3: This is not to say that we don't have private prayer,
24:19
Speaker 3: but this is to say that we are the mystical
24:21
Speaker 3: body of Christ, that that's a corporate kind of thing.
24:24
Speaker 3: And that's very offensive to our highly individualistic and Gnostic age,
24:29
Speaker 3: but them's the facts, kid. So we have to recognize
24:33
Speaker 3: this fact and get on out there. I think Barack
24:37
Speaker 3: Obama was particularly malignant when he shifted the rhetoric around
24:44
Speaker 3: Not only did he go after nuns, sue nuns, try
24:47
Speaker 3: to force a radical atheist agenda on a lot of people,
24:51
Speaker 3: but he spoke of freedom of religion in this highly
24:56
Speaker 3: individualistic way, freedom of worship, because we can worship in
25:01
Speaker 3: our own heads, locked up in our homes, away from
25:05
Speaker 3: everyone else. That's not what religious freedom is really supposed
25:09
Speaker 3: to be. That's certainly not the religious tradition in America.
25:11
Speaker 3: Religion is the kind of thing that happened in public.
25:14
Speaker 3: Even the First Amendment, which prohibits the establishment of a
25:17
Speaker 3: church at the national level, did so in large part,
25:20
Speaker 3: not so that we could have a total separation of
25:22
Speaker 3: church and state, but because many of the states had
25:25
Speaker 3: already established churches at the state level. And those establishments
25:29
Speaker 3: endured for decades after the ratification of the Constitution. So
25:32
Speaker 3: religion is a public thing. This is why the war
25:35
Speaker 3: on Christmas matters. The leftists like to make fun of
25:39
Speaker 3: conservatives for caring about whether or not we have Christmas
25:44
Speaker 3: ornaments in the public square or even on our coffee cups.
25:47
Speaker 2: And they say, oh, who cares? It's so trivial.
25:49
Speaker 3: But I think you guys obviously care. You are the
25:52
Speaker 3: ones who have undertaken decades of campaigning to take Christmas out.
25:56
Speaker 3: The fact that you insist on saying happy holidays at
26:00
Speaker 3: a time when we're all just talking about Christmas, are
26:02
Speaker 3: you going to wish me a happy Arbor Day?
26:04
Speaker 2: Are you going to wish me a happy Kwanzaa? Give
26:05
Speaker 2: me a break. It's ridiculous.
26:08
Speaker 3: The left classically Wages the culture war there the belligerence
26:12
Speaker 3: in the culture war and then the minute that we
26:14
Speaker 3: respond they look at us like we're weird You know,
26:17
Speaker 3: they force husky men into the little girls changing room
26:20
Speaker 3: at the public pool We object to that and they
26:22
Speaker 3: say why are you so focused on sex?
26:24
Speaker 2: We're not focused on it You're the ones who did it.
26:25
Speaker 3: We're just reacting to your predations, but they know that
26:29
Speaker 3: that symbols matter that signs matter they know that you know,
26:33
Speaker 3: if you if you route religion from the public square
26:36
Speaker 3: and then it's going to be a lot easier to
26:38
Speaker 3: affect a leftist agenda. So we got to make sure
26:40
Speaker 3: it's public. Get out there, process, evangelize, say Merry Christmas,
26:46
Speaker 3: you know, live your religion in your whole life because
26:49
Speaker 3: we're one unified person. You can't be one person inside
26:52
Speaker 3: your little head and then a totally different person with
26:55
Speaker 3: your body.
26:56
Speaker 1: To your point, Michael, I think that the establishment clause
27:00
Speaker 1: did a lot of real damage to this country and
27:03
Speaker 1: how we perceive ourselves, are we a Christian nation, or
27:06
Speaker 1: are we a country free from religion? And I get
27:11
Speaker 1: into this debate a lot with my husband, who self-identifies
27:15
Speaker 1: as a libertarian. And he really thinks that there should
27:20
Speaker 1: be no real, I think, Christian symbolism or profession at
27:26
Speaker 1: the state or the federal level, and I wonder, as
27:32
Speaker 1: we think about places like Hungary and Spain, like we
27:34
Speaker 1: talked about, how can we ever reclaim our identity as
27:39
Speaker 1: a Christian country, be a good moral nation, as the
27:42
Speaker 1: founding fathers intended us to be, if our government is
27:45
Speaker 1: hell-bent on, I guess, creating a moral equivalency between, say, Christianity,
27:52
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, and then the Church of Satanism that
27:55
Speaker 1: will erect altars and state houses because they have the
28:00
Speaker 1: same rights as Christians do now. So I wonder, what
28:04
Speaker 1: is your argument against, or maybe for, libertarianism and how
28:09
Speaker 1: we can push back against that wing of the new
28:13
Speaker 1: Trumpian party that we are looking at?
28:16
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't realize you were in a mixed marriage.
28:18
Speaker 3: That's very broad-minded of you, a conservative and a libertarian.
28:21
Speaker 1: I know, I know.
28:23
Speaker 3: I love my libertarian friends, and they've been an important
28:25
Speaker 3: part of a conservative coalition for a lot longer than
28:28
Speaker 3: Trump's been on the scene. I mean, this This goes
28:30
Speaker 3: back to at least the 1950s and really even earlier
28:33
Speaker 3: than that. However, libertarianism is a species of liberalism. And
28:39
Speaker 3: it's a more classical kind of liberalism, or it develops
28:41
Speaker 3: out of a more classical kind of liberalism, but it's
28:44
Speaker 3: still liberalism. And so it shares the same premises that
28:48
Speaker 3: liberalism shares. And what liberalism implies is skepticism, that we
28:55
Speaker 3: can't ever really come to terribly firm conclusions. We always
28:58
Speaker 3: need to keep our mind open. liberalism asserts that the
29:01
Speaker 3: individual is fundamental in society. Classical political philosophy, conservatism says
29:07
Speaker 3: that the family is the fundamental political unit, because political
29:10
Speaker 3: means public. It's more than one person. But liberalism says, no,
29:12
Speaker 3: it's really about the family. Liberalism views politics primarily through
29:16
Speaker 3: a lens of rights and entitlement, rather than, as the
29:20
Speaker 3: conservatives do, a lens of duty and obligation and tradition.
29:24
Speaker 3: Not to say that we don't have rights, but we're
29:26
Speaker 3: born Not to quote Kamala Harris, not to fall out
29:28
Speaker 3: of a coconut tree. We're born into families and we
29:30
Speaker 3: have obligations to our parents and to our siblings and
29:33
Speaker 3: to all of our communities. So libertarianism and conservatism, though
29:37
Speaker 3: on the surface, they seem kind of similar.
29:39
Speaker 2: They really.
29:40
Speaker 3: Differ quite radically in premises. So it makes perfect sense
29:43
Speaker 3: for someone who comes from the liberal tradition to say, well,
29:45
Speaker 3: we can't come to conclusions, certainly not about God or
29:48
Speaker 3: metaphysical matters or morality, and certainly not at the federal level.
29:52
Speaker 3: Could you imagine if that power fell into the wrong hands,
29:56
Speaker 3: as it already has for at least 70 years, and
29:58
Speaker 3: we look at the consequences of that? But I guess
30:01
Speaker 3: I would point to that fact to rebut liberalism and
30:05
Speaker 3: that skepticism. I would say, look, if we're going to
30:08
Speaker 3: have laws at all, then we're going to have to
30:10
Speaker 3: come to certain conclusions. To quote a former president of
30:13
Speaker 3: Yale who was himself kind of a liberal, skepticism has
30:15
Speaker 3: utility only when it leads to conviction. And to quote Chesterton,
30:19
Speaker 3: we open our minds for the same reason we open
30:21
Speaker 3: our mouths, to close it on something solid. So we
30:25
Speaker 3: have to come to certain conclusions and certain exclusions. Why
30:29
Speaker 3: is it wrong to commit murder? Well, because we can, uh,
30:35
Speaker 3: explain it by way of the natural law because every
30:38
Speaker 3: other culture has come to the conclusion that, that it's
30:40
Speaker 3: wrong to commit murder. We just kind of know it
30:42
Speaker 3: as a first principle of practical reason. Uh, it's wrong
30:45
Speaker 3: because man is made in the image and likeness of God. Uh,
30:48
Speaker 3: and so whoever sheds the blood of man by man
30:50
Speaker 3: shall his blood be shed. We have, we have some
30:52
Speaker 3: religious reasons, but we're going to, we're going to have
30:55
Speaker 3: a law against murder or we're going to legalize murder. And,
30:58
Speaker 3: and There are going to be moral and ultimately religious
31:01
Speaker 3: premises that we conclude that are going to lead us
31:05
Speaker 3: to that point. So it's not really a question between
31:07
Speaker 3: having a religious nation or a secular nation. It's what
31:12
Speaker 3: kind of religious nation are we going to have? What
31:15
Speaker 3: God are we going to worship? What is our moral
31:17
Speaker 3: foundation going to be? It's a safe rule that the
31:22
Speaker 3: libs are wrong about everything. Even when it seems like
31:25
Speaker 3: they're right, they're still wrong in their reasoning. So if
31:29
Speaker 3: you find yourself, if your husband, to whom I mean
31:31
Speaker 3: no disrespect, if your libertarian husband finds himself agreeing with
31:36
Speaker 3: the libs on certain foundational premises, I was a libertarian
31:40
Speaker 3: once in my young life too, okay?
31:42
Speaker 2: We've all been there. We've been through a phase.
31:44
Speaker 3: But if you find yourself agreeing with them on certain
31:46
Speaker 3: basic premises, it's time to check your premises because they're
31:50
Speaker 3: wrong about pretty much everything.
31:53
Speaker 1: Michael, so insightful. I really appreciate you joining us today.
31:57
Speaker 1: I want to be respectful of your time. So where
31:59
Speaker 1: can people go to follow you and to listen to
32:01
Speaker 1: your show?
32:02
Speaker 3: They can go find all my links to everything I
32:04
Speaker 3: do at michaeljnoles.com. I have the Michael Knowles Show at
32:06
Speaker 3: The Daily Wire, some other series there, the book club
32:09
Speaker 3: at PragerU. I have my Mayflower cigars. Speaking of Thanksgiving,
32:13
Speaker 3: you can get those at mayflowersigars.com. Though you have to
32:16
Speaker 3: be 21 years old or older to order some exclusions.
32:17
Speaker 2: Apply. I don't know. I sell a bunch of stuff.
32:19
Speaker 2: I have candles.
32:20
Speaker 1: I don't know.
32:21
Speaker 3: I have a lot of combustible products. The body is
32:23
Speaker 3: a temple and the temple needs incense. And I thank
32:27
Speaker 3: you so much for having me on and for the
32:28
Speaker 3: invitation and to be used as a pawn in an
32:31
Speaker 3: argument that you've been having with your husband.
32:33
Speaker 2: I appreciate the opportunity.
32:34
Speaker 1: You a thousand percent were used as a pawn. It
32:37
Speaker 1: was discussed before the show. I'm like, I'm going to
32:38
Speaker 1: ask Michael Knowles about this. He'll give us the answer.
32:41
Speaker 1: And I knew you would agree with me. So so
32:43
Speaker 1: it was it was a good it was a good
32:44
Speaker 1: choice on my part. A good question. Thank you so
32:47
Speaker 1: much for being here, Michael, to all of you listening.
32:50
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. This interview was
32:53
Speaker 1: a first for us at the early edition, so drop
32:55
Speaker 1: a comment. Let me know if you enjoyed this collab
32:57
Speaker 1: and if you'd like to see more crossover shows like this. Also,
33:00
Speaker 1: a reminder that there will be no show tomorrow or Friday,
33:05
Speaker 1: but we will be back on Monday. I'll see you
33:07
Speaker 1: all next week. The U.S.
33:09
Speaker 2: Soccer Podcast.
33:11
Speaker 3: I'm your host, Megan Klingenberg, and I am super stoked
33:14
Speaker 3: to be joined by Daryl Dike.
33:16
Speaker 2: Arguably, your most impressive quality.
33:18
Speaker 1: Cannot be measured.
33:19
Speaker 2: You're a guy who is the definition of grit.
33:22
Speaker 1: Injuries have ended plenty of careers, but instead you decided
33:25
Speaker 1: yours would only be a chapter instead of the ending.
33:27
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Daryl.
33:28
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
33:29
Speaker 3: That's a good intro right there. That's good.
33:32
Speaker 1: The U.S.
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