Latest / UK Column Radio / Perversity Culture- A Private Conversation – with Survivor Sam Hill

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Perversity Culture- A Private Conversation – with Survivor Sam Hill · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose I might as well do a little
0:01
Speaker 1: introduction and say I'm here in my den also known
0:06
Speaker 1: as my man cave. I suppose, so this is a
0:10
Speaker 1: nice bed at the house where I get some I
0:13
Speaker 1: get some quiet time, and I can just work nicely,
0:17
Speaker 1: and from time to time I do interviews from home,
0:20
Speaker 1: which people no doubt already know. Today, I've got a
0:25
Speaker 1: lady called Sam who's joined me, and we go back
0:29
Speaker 1: so far that I can't quite remember. So I'm going
0:32
Speaker 1: to say, Sam, when did we first speak to each other?
0:36
Speaker 1: Can you remember?
0:38
Speaker 2: I came from some videos that we did that we
0:41
Speaker 2: did or something to do with the videos, and about
0:43
Speaker 2: there was twenty eighteen or even before, I can't quite remember.
0:48
Speaker 1: I think it's got to be before that because we
0:53
Speaker 1: had some discussions about your sort of life journey. And
0:59
Speaker 1: then I think that I may have this wrong, because
1:05
Speaker 1: but I think we had some discussions. We had quite
1:08
Speaker 1: a lot of phone calls, and then I think there
1:10
Speaker 1: was a long break before you were back in touch
1:14
Speaker 1: because you've been doing some new and interesting things. So
1:19
Speaker 1: how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?
1:21
Speaker 1: You prepared to share how you got into the into
1:25
Speaker 1: the life and awareness that you've now got.
1:31
Speaker 2: I'm happy to go all the way I've sort of
1:33
Speaker 2: way through for firstly justice and then finding my voice
1:41
Speaker 2: with gatekeepers in the way every step of the way
1:43
Speaker 2: for so long. It's it's lovely to chat and if
1:46
Speaker 2: it can help other people, that's even better. So yeah,
1:49
Speaker 2: that's fine with me.
1:51
Speaker 1: All right. Well that's where we thought we'd sort of
1:53
Speaker 1: go because we were enjoying before we press the record,
1:58
Speaker 1: but we were enjoying a little private compsation, which is
2:00
Speaker 1: very nice, and then you suggested we shared it, so hopefully, yes,
2:06
Speaker 1: people will get something out of the conversation. I've used
2:10
Speaker 1: the term before as just a little bit of a joke,
2:13
Speaker 1: but we're having a private conversation, but we're going to
2:16
Speaker 1: share it.
2:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I've known you for so long.
2:21
Speaker 2: It feels like that anyway, So.
2:22
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, I have to say it's some of the
2:27
Speaker 1: events because the last time you and I spoke was
2:30
Speaker 1: at the was it the music Festival or Light in
2:34
Speaker 1: the Park? Was it Cumbrian sounds beautiful? Festival sounds beautiful? Yeah,
2:38
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. And there were people at those events
2:45
Speaker 1: who were coming up to me and saying the last
2:47
Speaker 1: time I spoke to you, it was two thousand and
2:50
Speaker 1: nine or two thousand and ten, and it was you know,
2:54
Speaker 1: it was really lovely because they've stayed in touch. Well
2:58
Speaker 1: they've been supported, will say, since that time. But for
3:02
Speaker 1: somebody to come and say, yeah, I last spoke to
3:04
Speaker 1: you in two thousand and nine, twenty twelve, where does
3:08
Speaker 1: the time go? So come on, then, you you're somebody
3:12
Speaker 1: that's been through the mill. How did the troubles start
3:17
Speaker 1: for you?
3:19
Speaker 3: Oh?
3:19
Speaker 2: Well, I was a survivor of abuse and I had
3:22
Speaker 2: a family who were gaslighting me and keeping it quiet.
3:27
Speaker 2: I ended up being taken to a very exclusive hospital,
3:32
Speaker 2: the same one which George Smith was taken to, was
3:36
Speaker 2: paid for to be detained by Prince Charles, the same
3:40
Speaker 2: chain of hospitals, the same one where gosh, what's the
3:46
Speaker 2: guy called?
3:48
Speaker 3: Oh?
3:48
Speaker 2: I was only talking to him earlier, about him earlier?
3:53
Speaker 2: Oh you know how names just disappear.
3:56
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not allowed to say it's an age thing
3:58
Speaker 1: with you, but it is with me.
4:00
Speaker 2: Paul Robeson, Paul heard of him. He's a communist guy
4:05
Speaker 2: in America in the fifties, and he was taken apparently
4:08
Speaker 2: was CIA sort of treatment that he had at this
4:11
Speaker 2: chain of hospitals received fifty six was it fifty four
4:14
Speaker 2: ect treatments? Did he pattern in thinking? And he ended
4:18
Speaker 2: up coming out of cripple obviously mental cripple, as you would.
4:22
Speaker 2: So I didn't fare too well for a couple of
4:24
Speaker 2: years after this. I don't want to go into it
4:25
Speaker 2: too much, but I have from previous interviews with people and.
4:28
Speaker 1: You you just just to set the scene a little bit.
4:32
Speaker 1: You were a young teenager when that happened.
4:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know, survival being what it is,
4:40
Speaker 2: a teenage strength, resilience, determination, being a growing being away
4:45
Speaker 2: from my family. I survived and regained my sense of self,
4:50
Speaker 2: and in doing so and understanding through post traumatic stress
4:55
Speaker 2: and the events that had happened to me, the kind
4:57
Speaker 2: of world that we were living in eventually turned out
5:00
Speaker 2: not to be such a negative thing because I could
5:02
Speaker 2: see beyond the veil of what was really going on
5:05
Speaker 2: with institutions, particularly, and as you've talked about many times,
5:09
Speaker 2: they are a common purpose type of environment which Starmer
5:14
Speaker 2: seems now to be treating like his army, because they
5:17
Speaker 2: all seem to act on this sense of identity grievance,
5:22
Speaker 2: be it they need more money. They're so entitled people
5:26
Speaker 2: in the institutions. I'm talking about generally all of them,
5:28
Speaker 2: but some of them are working there under that sort
5:30
Speaker 2: of ethos, and this translates into the lack of care.
5:35
Speaker 2: And you know, even even the treatment that we had
5:37
Speaker 2: with with COVID jabs that they're just really marching in
5:42
Speaker 2: line now, in step, and I fear, you know what
5:48
Speaker 2: Starmer will do his mother being in the NHS and
5:51
Speaker 2: his dad being a toolmaker, what kind of army he's
5:55
Speaker 2: trying to set up now and repurpose with the police
5:58
Speaker 2: force and the NHS and his disposal which you'll get
6:02
Speaker 2: extra funding obviously that they need.
6:05
Speaker 3: The course of.
6:06
Speaker 1: Course, this is a very interesting starting point, Sam, because
6:11
Speaker 1: when I'm going to say that, you know your comment
6:15
Speaker 1: about going through an abusive part of your life but
6:21
Speaker 1: then being dragged into the psychiatric system, I'm sure there'll
6:26
Speaker 1: be viewers listeners who still haven't come across this. But
6:30
Speaker 1: it is a common theme with people who have run
6:35
Speaker 1: into trouble, particularly with social services or child protection, that
6:42
Speaker 1: the psychiatric system is used as a weapon. It could
6:46
Speaker 1: be used to draw the child into treatment that could
6:52
Speaker 1: be going on, or it could be used as a
6:54
Speaker 1: weapon inasmuch as it's a sort of threat. If you
6:58
Speaker 1: don't shut up, we're going to pull you into the
7:01
Speaker 1: psychiatric system. And I can say that recently I was
7:08
Speaker 1: able to speak with a lady called somebody I did
7:12
Speaker 1: an interview with years ago, and she told the story
7:15
Speaker 1: about blowing the whistle on what social services were doing
7:19
Speaker 1: to snatch children and babies, and then she went through
7:24
Speaker 1: the most terrific intimidation. But that included locking her up
7:31
Speaker 1: in several psychiatric units over a number of years, and
7:36
Speaker 1: it was just simply pulled in. Sometimes she was medicated
7:41
Speaker 1: and sometimes she wasn't, but she was deprived liberty and
7:45
Speaker 1: then at a particular time she was let out again.
7:49
Speaker 1: So anybody that thinks the use of the psychiatric system
7:53
Speaker 1: is simply something Soviet is completely mistaken, because it's been
7:58
Speaker 1: going on here. I think since these sort of asylums
8:02
Speaker 1: in Victorian times were being used for these purposes as well.
8:07
Speaker 2: As well, isn't it as the police have been politicized
8:09
Speaker 2: now as well. Yeah, And so most people don't realize that.
8:13
Speaker 3: No.
8:14
Speaker 1: And then the other bit I want to say is
8:16
Speaker 1: that is that very often when people are describing bad
8:21
Speaker 1: experiences in the system, which could be through abuse or
8:26
Speaker 1: trying to fight the system and coming up against this
8:29
Speaker 1: use of local authorities and their agents in order to
8:37
Speaker 1: suppress you. People say that there's something else comes with it,
8:42
Speaker 1: And a phrase that I get quite a lot is
8:44
Speaker 1: these people are very strange. It's almost like dealing with
8:48
Speaker 1: a cult.
8:49
Speaker 2: It is. This is so true, and this is something
8:52
Speaker 2: that I was so aware of, and then I looked
8:54
Speaker 2: into deeper how the institutions have been changed and hollowed
8:57
Speaker 2: out and politicized, and you know, they're all the sort
9:01
Speaker 2: of caring aspects have sort of fallen by the wayside.
9:05
Speaker 2: Not to everyone, of course, but I mean the ethos
9:07
Speaker 2: and everything is completely different. But I've seen a lot
9:10
Speaker 2: of victims and survivors of this type of abuse that
9:13
Speaker 2: you're talking about, so I knew it wasn't just me,
9:17
Speaker 2: which made me even more determined to figure it out
9:19
Speaker 2: what was actually going on. So it is it's like
9:22
Speaker 2: a mafia. I mean, they do act sort of in
9:24
Speaker 2: a soulless way. I mean you can almost see the
9:26
Speaker 2: police doing that now when they're doing all the silly
9:29
Speaker 2: stuff like arresting preachers or like they're possessed in some way.
9:32
Speaker 2: They're just devoid of some sort of emotional ability. Yeah.
9:36
Speaker 2: I think it's partly to do with their training. It's
9:38
Speaker 2: sort of some sort of what do they call it,
9:40
Speaker 2: unconscious biased training. If you have all your unconscious bias
9:44
Speaker 2: taken away that gives your differentiation skills will actually suffer
9:50
Speaker 2: and you will eventually if you've been trained politically in
9:54
Speaker 2: that way, you're just looking everything through political spectacles and following,
9:58
Speaker 2: you know, the instructions which make life easier for them. Yeah,
10:02
Speaker 2: and you know the whole system can be worked that way.
10:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:05
Speaker 1: But I can add to that that, you know, I
10:09
Speaker 1: spent twenty years in the twenty one years in the military,
10:13
Speaker 1: and particularly looking back, you can see how the training
10:18
Speaker 1: was designed to achieve certain things. I mean, an absolute
10:23
Speaker 1: essential for the military is that if an order is given,
10:27
Speaker 1: you're going to carry that order out. But if I
10:32
Speaker 1: think back to training, use that horrible phrase in my day,
10:36
Speaker 1: so we're talking Cold War era, people were getting that training,
10:41
Speaker 1: but they still had a humanity about them. And it
10:47
Speaker 1: is noticeable now that with the police, you can come
10:52
Speaker 1: into contact with them and it's like there's not a
10:56
Speaker 1: personality in the body if I give a contra, I
11:00
Speaker 1: can say that when we went up to the to
11:03
Speaker 1: the farmers protest in London a week ago, the police
11:08
Speaker 1: we spoke to up there were really nice. They were relaxed,
11:13
Speaker 1: they were they were smiling. They would even give you
11:16
Speaker 1: their opinion on the protest and the people. But when,
11:22
Speaker 1: for example, we went up Mike and I went up
11:25
Speaker 1: to London for the second big Palestine Palestine protests, some
11:31
Speaker 1: of the police were They were incredible because if you
11:36
Speaker 1: attempted to ask them just a simple thing, you looked
11:40
Speaker 1: at these dull, lifeless eyes, and they couldn't even manage
11:46
Speaker 1: a basic response, even if it was to say I'm sorry,
11:49
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to speak to you. Some of them
11:52
Speaker 1: just looked at you. They didn't even acknowledge that you
11:55
Speaker 1: were stood in front of them.
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Speaker 2: It is horrific, and this is what I found. Obviously,
12:01
Speaker 2: losing your identity in that way within the mental health
12:04
Speaker 2: system is easier to understand. You get deep persons in
12:07
Speaker 2: a way, but it's becoming happening to everyone. This therapeutic
12:11
Speaker 2: society which is this sort of follows this sort of
12:15
Speaker 2: political system which is about their identity, training and their accountability.
12:22
Speaker 2: So we're talking here about various identities having a different value,
12:28
Speaker 2: which was which is being used as a tool to
12:30
Speaker 2: govern with. And we were told that identity would not
12:34
Speaker 2: be a tool to govern with, and that was something
12:35
Speaker 2: that we already fought a war for identity at all
12:38
Speaker 2: to govern people with. So, yeah, it's pretty dire what's
12:45
Speaker 2: happening here.
12:45
Speaker 1: So, Sam, what you were talking now with somebody who's
12:51
Speaker 1: had a lot of life experiences which has led you
12:54
Speaker 1: to do your own research and to find out about things. Yeah,
13:00
Speaker 1: I think you probably feel that you've got to you
13:04
Speaker 1: feel certain things. I can sort of know something inside
13:10
Speaker 1: And if you say to me, how do you know that,
13:12
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't answer that question. It's something I
13:16
Speaker 1: just I just know. And but you've been through life experiences,
13:21
Speaker 1: so you're not talking about it. You're not talking from
13:24
Speaker 1: the point of view that you're a psychologist or a
13:26
Speaker 1: psychiatrist or anything.
13:31
Speaker 2: So when you've done without those those titles, it makes
13:34
Speaker 2: it makes it a barrier because you can't necessarily present
13:39
Speaker 2: yourself to the mainstream media and say here, I am,
13:42
Speaker 2: I have an opinion. Whill you listen to me, Especially
13:44
Speaker 2: when you think about the CSA inquiry, wanted to get
13:46
Speaker 2: every survivor out of there. Our opinions are kind of
13:50
Speaker 2: more under the surface, more more sort of not heard
13:54
Speaker 2: in mainstream media. But I think a lot a lot
13:56
Speaker 2: of people I've met who've spent their life thinking and
13:59
Speaker 2: doing this kind of thing have actually come to some
14:01
Speaker 2: amazing conclusions. Once you've seen the face of authority corruption,
14:07
Speaker 2: you really understand how it works because the power works
14:10
Speaker 2: in the same way each time, doesn't it very much?
14:12
Speaker 2: It has a similar feel to it, the abusiveness of
14:15
Speaker 2: when it's abusive.
14:17
Speaker 1: Yes, it's almost like it follows a tendplate. In cases
14:23
Speaker 1: where people are being challenged, I'll stick with local authorities
14:27
Speaker 1: because they seem to be particularly nasty, or have appeared
14:31
Speaker 1: to be over the years. And then their legal teams
14:34
Speaker 1: send their nasty little emails or legal letters last post
14:40
Speaker 1: on a Friday, so that you receive them on a
14:43
Speaker 1: Saturday morning. And why do they do that because you can't.
14:47
Speaker 1: You can't. It's more difficult for you to get help
14:50
Speaker 1: on a weekend, professional help, So you have to absorb
14:56
Speaker 1: the fact this nasty letter sits there all weekend. Some
15:00
Speaker 1: of it, some of the things they do to me
15:03
Speaker 1: as a template and it's been going on years. But
15:06
Speaker 1: other bits it's it's weird because it's almost like it's
15:11
Speaker 1: done as a custom or part of their culture. They
15:18
Speaker 1: do it without thinking about it, and yet it's not
15:22
Speaker 1: something that a normal person would do.
15:25
Speaker 2: No, it's not for me. I came to the conclusion
15:28
Speaker 2: through and researching this system was a demonic beast system,
15:33
Speaker 2: if you like. And to explain that for a layperson,
15:37
Speaker 2: you have to look at the Beast in the Book
15:40
Speaker 2: of Revelations if you're going to work out what this
15:42
Speaker 2: end and end time system is, and it says it
15:45
Speaker 2: has one common purpose and those who had not received
15:47
Speaker 2: a kingdom before had one hour to rule with the Beast.
15:50
Speaker 2: The Beast is written by Babylon and it's covered in
15:53
Speaker 2: blasphemous names. You could say identities, you could say pronouns.
15:57
Speaker 2: Even you could say that these identities that have we've
15:59
Speaker 2: been splintered in to as once we're nations around the
16:03
Speaker 2: world now form this what Saurus wanted, this atomized thing.
16:08
Speaker 2: And this fits into buying and selling with the Beast system,
16:11
Speaker 2: because if you want to put it simplistically, as I do,
16:14
Speaker 2: I try to do it in layman's terms. In the book.
16:16
Speaker 2: If there is such thing as layman's terms for this
16:18
Speaker 2: kind of thing, you're buying and selling with the Marxism
16:21
Speaker 2: of the beast, because this political system is changing from
16:25
Speaker 2: one that was a capitalist system with shareholders into stakeholder capitalism,
16:32
Speaker 2: which has an environmental agender, and the environmental agenda is
16:36
Speaker 2: very much against the West, which is deemed to need
16:40
Speaker 2: to pay back the rest of the world, which again
16:42
Speaker 2: puts it into the position of the biblical city Babylon.
16:46
Speaker 2: And you've got city coming up a lot with the
16:49
Speaker 2: fifteen minute cities, the metroly. You know, everybody should live
16:52
Speaker 2: in big super cities. It's there's two dimensions here, two
16:56
Speaker 2: women in the Book of Revelations, one who was in
16:59
Speaker 2: the wilderness and her seed her offspring were persecuted, and
17:03
Speaker 2: the other was city Babylon, which was an astonishing site
17:07
Speaker 2: of a woman. Perhaps, And you have to think about
17:08
Speaker 2: what this forces that's governing, and you think of everything
17:11
Speaker 2: that's trans everything that's transnational, trans you know, the destruction
17:17
Speaker 2: of what would be normal womanhood. So this is why
17:21
Speaker 2: you know it talks about in the Bible that Babylon
17:23
Speaker 2: is an astonishing site of a woman, because that's what
17:25
Speaker 2: a modern woman would be quite an astonishing thing. Feminist,
17:30
Speaker 2: trans everything, you name it, that's what there is.
17:34
Speaker 1: It's a very interesting point, Sam, I mean, it's been
17:38
Speaker 1: obvious to me and many other people that women have
17:43
Speaker 1: been particularly attacked in a very vicious way. I mean,
17:50
Speaker 1: to get to the point where we are now in
17:52
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four that essentially some man dressed up in
17:56
Speaker 1: women's clothes can walk into your toilets or your bathroom
18:02
Speaker 1: is just incredible. And then women have almost been taught
18:09
Speaker 1: to believe that to be a mother isn't worth anything.
18:13
Speaker 1: You haven't made it if you were a mother and
18:16
Speaker 1: you've dedicated your life to bringing up happy, capable children,
18:22
Speaker 1: and you've got to do more. You've got to become
18:25
Speaker 1: a rough, tough executive, and then you've got to become
18:30
Speaker 1: you've got to be male to the extent that you're
18:32
Speaker 1: going to take on all the males as well.
18:35
Speaker 3: So you're right, Yeah, I just look at it.
18:38
Speaker 1: And I think, wow, you know, women are being hammered,
18:45
Speaker 1: and does that fit in with your very much.
18:49
Speaker 2: Very much, because these two women are going to symbolize
18:51
Speaker 2: there that as the women in Nature Revelations twelve seventeen
18:54
Speaker 2: and then there's Babylon, the city, the garish site.
18:58
Speaker 1: And I've got to pick you up on that. Yeah,
19:01
Speaker 1: the word gearish, it's a very dangerous word.
19:07
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I didn't mean that. So the Gearish woman,
19:11
Speaker 2: which is startling, let's say I use that world word
19:15
Speaker 2: and covered in riding a beast, covered in blasphemous names,
19:19
Speaker 2: which I which to me represents these dispossessed nations which
19:23
Speaker 2: come to hate the rider Babylon, and it says, pay
19:25
Speaker 2: her back double for what she's taken, as if the
19:28
Speaker 2: paying back for the colonization decolonize, you know, pulled down
19:31
Speaker 2: everything great that went before. So this is the deconstructing.
19:36
Speaker 2: And you see now the modern left, not not the
19:39
Speaker 2: traditional left. The modern left are into deconstructing because everything
19:42
Speaker 2: has to be deemed a construct, and if you deem
19:45
Speaker 2: it a construct, it gives them carte blanche to deconstruct.
19:49
Speaker 2: So this is where they feel they can change everything
19:54
Speaker 2: in society. Everyone is born a blank sheet. They can
19:56
Speaker 2: disregard any natural phenomen that they don't like. That comes
20:02
Speaker 2: from an innate sense of strength. It's their worst enemy.
20:05
Speaker 2: That's something that we can take on to sort of
20:07
Speaker 2: try and deal with. It work on your innate sense
20:10
Speaker 2: of self because they would like everybody to be leveled
20:14
Speaker 2: out the commonality of this beast system, commonality of identity,
20:18
Speaker 2: and making it that you know, Saurus said, everything is
20:22
Speaker 2: freed up, and you know, all those old fashioned voibles
20:26
Speaker 2: of you know, things just got rid of. So that
20:30
Speaker 2: another thing that the modern left are into is if
20:34
Speaker 2: you look into their polymorphous perversity was something that was
20:39
Speaker 2: the type of society they wanted to create, which is
20:44
Speaker 2: love is love, all is one. So polymorphous perversity is
20:48
Speaker 2: the stage of babyhood where everything is found sensual and
20:51
Speaker 2: there's no discriminatory thing involved at all. So it reduces
20:56
Speaker 2: people's orientation because they've been infantile. This is why we're
21:01
Speaker 2: seeing the pubity blockers and the elites. Of course, they
21:07
Speaker 2: have no will to create nations and children. They just
21:11
Speaker 2: want to use the children for other purposes. So to
21:15
Speaker 2: do nature everything in that way fits in very nicely
21:18
Speaker 2: and to keep people sort of at the aid of
21:20
Speaker 2: focus on what the ideal is is about the age
21:23
Speaker 2: of twelve, not male, not female, fully just the arrested development,
21:28
Speaker 2: because that fits the pedophile way of thinking. As a
21:32
Speaker 2: global eyed tire in.
21:35
Speaker 1: And I'll add in here the thing which particularly I
21:37
Speaker 1: say Mike and I UK column. When we're prep we're
21:42
Speaker 1: preparing material for the news. More and more of the
21:47
Speaker 1: government material comes out in a cartoon format. It's a
21:52
Speaker 1: little video which is very childish. It's it's meant for adults,
21:58
Speaker 1: but it's in the style of a children cartoon. And
22:02
Speaker 1: then with it you get all the books and publications
22:04
Speaker 1: which may have come from the government or they've come
22:07
Speaker 1: from the good old local authority or the NHS, and
22:13
Speaker 1: whatever they're saying is written in a very hyper simplistic, childish,
22:20
Speaker 1: bright colorful way, and that to me is clearly part
22:26
Speaker 1: of the taking away adulthood and reducing as many people
22:33
Speaker 1: in the public as they can to children. In their
22:36
Speaker 1: way of thinking, it.
22:38
Speaker 2: Was very clearly they wanted to target what they called
22:41
Speaker 2: the Authoritaiian personality, and there are many ways of doing it.
22:44
Speaker 2: Encourage people to be infantile through you know, that's what
22:47
Speaker 2: you aim for, or you know, try and get rid
22:50
Speaker 2: of authority things and structures in a different way, because
22:53
Speaker 2: you know they're old, they're pale, veil and stale, and
22:56
Speaker 2: you know, obviously the enemy that needs to be restructured
23:00
Speaker 2: to fit this new normal. Yeah, this system.
23:05
Speaker 1: Which is so, when did you did you get down
23:10
Speaker 1: the journey of exploration? You know, by waking up and
23:15
Speaker 1: you have that moment where suddenly you saw things or
23:19
Speaker 1: was it a gradual process where you know, you got
23:24
Speaker 1: you got older, and then you start to reflect on
23:27
Speaker 1: what happened to you when you were younger versus what
23:29
Speaker 1: you see around you, and then it all begins to
23:32
Speaker 1: slowly make sense.
23:34
Speaker 3: Which was it something simmering away?
23:36
Speaker 2: Since I was nineteen, I had my first real epithany
23:38
Speaker 2: because I was having flashbacks about my past. My past
23:42
Speaker 2: was so traumatic. I don't think most people would really
23:44
Speaker 2: stomach it if I sat here, and I would, I'd
23:46
Speaker 2: be very much and upset if I told you all
23:48
Speaker 2: the details. But the flashbacks made me so out of
23:54
Speaker 2: the normal bubble. Societal bubble was nineteen. It was around
23:59
Speaker 2: nine teen ninety, and that's when I realized, my god,
24:03
Speaker 2: this isn't you know, this isn't how it looks, this
24:06
Speaker 2: isn't how it really is. And I actually experienced some
24:09
Speaker 2: sort of sense of absolute armageddon, if you like. And
24:16
Speaker 2: for me, that's the only I'd be get that Pretty
24:18
Speaker 2: much my life experience was so kind of different in
24:22
Speaker 2: the sense of what the initial trauma had happened to
24:24
Speaker 2: me at sixteen to most people's experience. I could relate
24:27
Speaker 2: to apocalyptic things, and I started reading them and trying
24:32
Speaker 2: to make sense of what it was this governing force
24:36
Speaker 2: that was enslaving me. It says, you know, if anybody
24:41
Speaker 2: is to go into captivity, into captivity, they will go.
24:43
Speaker 2: We we're seeing a lot of that now with people
24:45
Speaker 2: actually being imprisoned for their beliefs. I was actually in
24:47
Speaker 2: prisoned for it because not only was I having flashbacks,
24:50
Speaker 2: I was driving to the village where a lot of
24:52
Speaker 2: the abuse took place, and I was walking late at
24:55
Speaker 2: night for hours I was I was thinking about this
25:01
Speaker 2: end Times political system. I wanted to know what it was,
25:05
Speaker 2: and everything that kind of happened with relation to how
25:09
Speaker 2: bad the system treated me and how I got to
25:11
Speaker 2: know its characteristics just helped me learn. And I had
25:15
Speaker 2: to suppress to the doctors and everybody to the point
25:19
Speaker 2: where I was finally let out after being on stellazine,
25:22
Speaker 2: which actually was a drug that was used in Soviet Russia.
25:26
Speaker 2: Well they don't use it anymore. It's a little blue
25:27
Speaker 2: when it knocks you out completely. That takes your soul away.
25:29
Speaker 2: It's like you're like that and you can't paint, you
25:32
Speaker 2: can't think creatively, you're half dead. It's horrible, horrible. After
25:37
Speaker 2: going through that, which felt like some sort of punishment,
25:39
Speaker 2: some sort of process, it's sort of I hadn't, you know,
25:46
Speaker 2: not what's the effect? What's the effect? I'm looking for.
25:49
Speaker 2: It brought me closer to meaning. It brought me closer
25:52
Speaker 2: to understanding some of the real important questions. I felt
25:57
Speaker 2: actually part of it because I was actually persecuted for
25:59
Speaker 2: my faith, and you know, as well as the cover
26:01
Speaker 2: up of the child abuse and getting me out of
26:03
Speaker 2: the way. She's mad. Don't listen to her in case
26:05
Speaker 2: she starts talking about it. I went through an awakening
26:10
Speaker 2: and it opened my eyes to all these religious things
26:13
Speaker 2: because I read it, and I was reading about Babylon
26:15
Speaker 2: the Great. Then you have the America the Great and
26:17
Speaker 2: Great Britain. Gorg Magog came later. I think it was
26:22
Speaker 2: the when did Bush and Sharrak start talking about the
26:26
Speaker 2: Gog Magog War. It became easier to research these things
26:30
Speaker 2: and in the mid nineties two thousands, but then I
26:35
Speaker 2: only had books. Originally because we didn't have the internet
26:38
Speaker 2: in the nineties.
26:39
Speaker 1: So when you talk about your faith, what are you
26:42
Speaker 1: talking about. Are you talking about being a Christian or a.
26:48
Speaker 2: I was brought up a Protestant. I was very loosely Protestant.
26:51
Speaker 2: I used to do remembrance Days. I used to be
26:53
Speaker 2: a flag bearer, but I used to only go to
26:55
Speaker 2: church twice a year, maybe for Remembrance Day. It was
26:59
Speaker 2: one of the main things. But my mom always used
27:01
Speaker 2: to pick horrible arguments with me. When I came back
27:03
Speaker 2: from church, I was really filled with kind of a
27:05
Speaker 2: good feeling, and then she had attacked me a nastily
27:07
Speaker 2: and been nsty to me or something. So I felt that,
27:10
Speaker 2: you know, even then, you know, I felt a sense
27:13
Speaker 2: of persecution and needing to protect my soul, needing to
27:17
Speaker 2: protect fertility, even because I could sense that the abuse
27:22
Speaker 2: itself was an attack. In some ways, I didn't understand
27:26
Speaker 2: how somebody could abuse me and not want to maybe
27:28
Speaker 2: have a proper relationship being married. I was brought into
27:32
Speaker 2: it because they were very, very intelligent people, and you know,
27:36
Speaker 2: in some ways they would have been something to aspire
27:38
Speaker 2: to that they weren't dirty, grubby little people. So I
27:41
Speaker 2: couldn't understand a lot of things, and it was like
27:45
Speaker 2: life and the troubles I'd had unraveled in a way
27:49
Speaker 2: that really helped me understand. I'd always heard a hunger
27:51
Speaker 2: for understanding and being put so far out of you know,
27:57
Speaker 2: the mainstream box did me a favor for the time
28:00
Speaker 2: that we're in because I can do both. I can
28:03
Speaker 2: live a very ordinary, mundane life where nobody thinks anything
28:06
Speaker 2: is strange at all. On the other hand, I can
28:08
Speaker 2: be here, you know, honing my research and doing it quietly.
28:13
Speaker 2: Nobody knows. My children didn't really know much about it.
28:16
Speaker 2: You know. My son's dad. He agrees with me. My
28:20
Speaker 2: philosophy is we're both very very like minded on it.
28:22
Speaker 2: But always, of course, you have to be careful. I've
28:25
Speaker 2: backed up a little bit because I've got a child.
28:27
Speaker 2: I don't want you see, so often the authority is
28:30
Speaker 2: coming after me again. There's a fear of it, because
28:32
Speaker 2: I know how baud it is. The other hand, I
28:34
Speaker 2: can't say I'm going to shut up for the rest
28:36
Speaker 2: of my life.
28:38
Speaker 3: No.
28:39
Speaker 1: I understand that balance because I'm in contact with other
28:42
Speaker 1: people that live in that in that difficult place, and
28:47
Speaker 1: who I've just mentioned is also in that difficult place
28:50
Speaker 1: because she knows a lot. There's a lot that she
28:54
Speaker 1: has never said, but if she did say something, would
28:58
Speaker 1: that put her at risk? Difficult thing? Just come on,
29:03
Speaker 1: then to the Bible. Is the Bible? Well, I declare
29:08
Speaker 1: my hand. I was given a Bible at one stage,
29:14
Speaker 1: probably twenty years ago. I did. We did have Bibles
29:18
Speaker 1: in the house, but somebody I was talking to and
29:21
Speaker 1: telling me things gave me a Bible, which was very nice.
29:25
Speaker 1: And then I was also given some Bible magazines, two
29:32
Speaker 1: of which I remember very clearly because one had a
29:37
Speaker 1: man's head on the front cover in a sniper's site
29:40
Speaker 1: and it said the Battle for our Minds, and I thought,
29:45
Speaker 1: that's really interesting to be on a sort of Christian magazine.
29:50
Speaker 1: And the other one was Germany's fourth Reich. And because
30:01
Speaker 1: these were a sort of very political message, I was
30:03
Speaker 1: attracted to these two and I read them one night
30:06
Speaker 1: from about ten o'clock in the evening through to I
30:09
Speaker 1: think about half past three in the morning, and I
30:12
Speaker 1: was fascinated because there was a lot of talk about
30:15
Speaker 1: current events and what was happening, and then it was
30:18
Speaker 1: being explained in biblical terms in what I felt was
30:22
Speaker 1: a very coherent and sensible way, and it was those
30:27
Speaker 1: two magazines that got me deeper into the Bible. But
30:32
Speaker 1: what I've subsequently learned, of course, is that the Bible
30:35
Speaker 1: can draw you in, and I see people who get
30:38
Speaker 1: drawn in deeper and deeper and deeper, where to my mind,
30:45
Speaker 1: they have to be really careful because the deeper they
30:48
Speaker 1: get in, the more uncertain it is that the meanings
30:52
Speaker 1: they think are in the Bible are actually the correct ones.
30:57
Speaker 1: So I've tended to not go in too deep, but
31:04
Speaker 1: I have read enough that it has my interest, and
31:08
Speaker 1: of course for a lot of people now, the sections
31:13
Speaker 1: of the Bible relating to end times are the ones
31:16
Speaker 1: that start to really grab them because they appear to
31:22
Speaker 1: make sense. They appear to be talking about events we see.
31:26
Speaker 1: So does that reflect your relationship with the Bible or
31:31
Speaker 1: have you been a scholar?
31:33
Speaker 2: No? I mean I did spend about or two years
31:37
Speaker 2: reading it well, particularly while I was in hospital, locked
31:40
Speaker 2: up for six months, reading it NonStop. And then I
31:45
Speaker 2: learned to try and tell these people who are asking,
31:47
Speaker 2: do you still believe in this? Otherwise we won't let
31:49
Speaker 2: you go. The doctors, you know, just just put it
31:55
Speaker 2: down and just you know, sit there, drink a cup
31:57
Speaker 2: of tea and get on with my day, talk to
31:59
Speaker 2: the other people. But I'd actually spent months and months
32:02
Speaker 2: and months reading certain things over and over to the
32:04
Speaker 2: point where I just absorbed, and I just absorbed. Now
32:07
Speaker 2: I don't read it that much anymore. I have absorbed
32:10
Speaker 2: all I need to know, and I look out for
32:14
Speaker 2: important things that i've I've put a marker under, like
32:19
Speaker 2: now has come the time to destroy those who destroy
32:21
Speaker 2: the earth, because it's quite clear to see now that
32:24
Speaker 2: you know they are. You know, the authorities can be
32:27
Speaker 2: using that as a as a sort of an environmental
32:30
Speaker 2: thing to claim it's us who are destroying the earth,
32:33
Speaker 2: when in fact it's them. So they are little markers there.
32:37
Speaker 2: If it's worth picking up on a handful at least.
32:40
Speaker 2: At least I'd say, if you've got ten or so
32:43
Speaker 2: markers that you understand in the Book of Revelations, it
32:47
Speaker 2: can be helpful. But if you've got a wrecking over
32:50
Speaker 2: everything over and over again, you get into a loop,
32:53
Speaker 2: don't you, And it's destructive. But you know, if you
32:56
Speaker 2: want to have your epiphany, if you're able to do it,
32:58
Speaker 2: and you're an environment where you can do it, you know,
33:02
Speaker 2: but you know, try and come out the other side
33:04
Speaker 2: and put what you've learned into practice and put it
33:06
Speaker 2: down for a bit, and that should be enough.
33:09
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's whyse that's why's counsel as they say,
33:15
Speaker 1: because I've also seen people that have come unstuck because
33:22
Speaker 1: they're researching on dark stuff, whether you know, whether they're
33:26
Speaker 1: reading it through the Bible or else where. They often
33:29
Speaker 1: do this late at night, and so they'll say to you, yes,
33:32
Speaker 1: I've been researching till sort of to hop us two
33:36
Speaker 1: in the morning, and I've often said don't because when
33:40
Speaker 1: you do it, it draws you into something. And that's
33:48
Speaker 1: a spiritual comment. Really.
33:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends where they are and if that's the
33:52
Speaker 2: journey they want to take, if they want to take
33:54
Speaker 2: that leap. Some people do they for their life journey
33:58
Speaker 2: and some But you are right, there are dangers involved
34:01
Speaker 2: if you do it, you know, reading things over and
34:04
Speaker 2: over without just absorbing and letting it help you through
34:07
Speaker 2: that way, just anything which I think for the Christian
34:12
Speaker 2: religion isn't meant to be like some it's not meant
34:14
Speaker 2: to be dictatorial. It's meant to you're allowed to be
34:17
Speaker 2: the prodigal child, the prodigal son, and go on a journey.
34:22
Speaker 2: It's not meant to be totalitarian. And as extreme as
34:26
Speaker 2: some religions are, I mean my experience. Maybe a Catholic
34:29
Speaker 2: or somebody wouldn't say the same, But what I learned
34:31
Speaker 2: was from Jesus's teaching, the parables of life were not
34:36
Speaker 2: straight lines. They weren't fanatical, they weren't sort of zealousy
34:41
Speaker 2: and you know, religious zeal. So that's the point to
34:46
Speaker 2: pick up on here. We're meant to get the feeling.
34:49
Speaker 2: Not necessarily. You know, Jesus was against all sort of
34:52
Speaker 2: all the rules of the Pharisees and all the Jewish rules.
34:57
Speaker 2: He'd turned the tables on those. The morality of things
35:00
Speaker 2: and life is much more than reading words, isn't it.
35:05
Speaker 1: Yes, And I'll say to it. And the other thing
35:09
Speaker 1: about the rules is the key rules are so simple.
35:12
Speaker 1: You know, if it's love your God, love one another,
35:17
Speaker 1: that's a very simple thing to understand. And there's no
35:22
Speaker 1: mystery in the words as to what's being said. But yes,
35:26
Speaker 1: when when you get into other areas where the descriptions,
35:32
Speaker 1: even with parables, people can interpret them in different ways.
35:36
Speaker 1: And maybe the parables were parables because the wider public,
35:42
Speaker 1: the sheep, did have difficulty in understanding what was written
35:46
Speaker 1: in the book. So I think i'd agree with you
35:50
Speaker 1: on that one that the message, the real message is
35:54
Speaker 1: there is very clear, and it isn't about sort of
35:58
Speaker 1: enforcing something on people. It's sharing that. It's getting them
36:03
Speaker 1: to share a burden which is light to quote a
36:07
Speaker 1: little bit, isn't it. My burden is light?
36:10
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah.
36:14
Speaker 1: So you exist here in with me and others in
36:17
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four and you look out the window and
36:22
Speaker 1: earlier on you were saying to me breakdown. You see breakdown,
36:32
Speaker 1: and mad tell us a bit more about that, because
36:34
Speaker 1: I think a lot of other people are beginning to
36:37
Speaker 1: realize that something is just not right. Things are not working.
36:43
Speaker 2: No, there is a spiritual war. Kirst Armer is a
36:48
Speaker 2: rule lover. He's a pedantic. He's been trained in law,
36:52
Speaker 2: and you know, as long as the rule of law
36:55
Speaker 2: is what is what the hill he would fall on.
36:59
Speaker 2: I think he doesn't the ability to think he's almost
37:01
Speaker 2: one of these people, isn't here that we've spoken of before?
37:05
Speaker 2: And these people are working in unison globally, so you
37:09
Speaker 2: know he's been installed, and how are we going to
37:14
Speaker 2: get rid of them? Because it's like another one will
37:15
Speaker 2: pop up. And what's going on in Russia. Obviously I
37:19
Speaker 2: had hoped that you know, Trump would would put an
37:23
Speaker 2: end to well find a way to end the war,
37:26
Speaker 2: but now you know, Joe Biden has thrown this situation
37:31
Speaker 2: into chaos. It just shows how demonic things are, really,
37:35
Speaker 2: doesn't it. I mean, how can it not affect the
37:38
Speaker 2: population that we're actually being governed by people like this,
37:41
Speaker 2: even you know, even if it's not directly affecting you,
37:45
Speaker 2: it's it's out there and it is.
37:50
Speaker 1: It is incredible because first of all, people have got
37:52
Speaker 1: to see what the character for us to start to
37:56
Speaker 1: get out the mess. What's going to happen is the
38:00
Speaker 1: people have got to see the defects in the people
38:04
Speaker 1: in control. And this is a double edged sword, isn't it.
38:09
Speaker 1: Because if we are to look at the people in
38:13
Speaker 1: control and say these people are serious defectives, I mean
38:17
Speaker 1: we might say they're psychopaths or sociopaths if we want
38:22
Speaker 1: to go down that route, but that they clearly don't
38:25
Speaker 1: have basic love and understanding for their fellow man that
38:30
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. They can be unbelievably cruel and callous. But
38:35
Speaker 1: if we are going to see that, the wider us
38:40
Speaker 1: has got to have some grounding in what the right
38:44
Speaker 1: form of life is, and that's being stripped away because
38:48
Speaker 1: people are becoming more and more unstable and slipping down
38:53
Speaker 1: the same slope, whether it's drink or drugs or promiscuity,
39:00
Speaker 1: or it's horror films, or it's living a life through
39:06
Speaker 1: a mobile phone instead of actually talking to another human being.
39:10
Speaker 1: As our lives decay, so it gets more difficult to
39:16
Speaker 1: appropriately judge the people who rule us.
39:19
Speaker 2: Yes it does. We don't have a moral sort of
39:23
Speaker 2: compass well to measure anything by, so it's easy for
39:27
Speaker 2: them to plug us in. I think this is the nature.
39:29
Speaker 2: Once they've deconstructed and transd things and it just made
39:36
Speaker 2: everything atomized, it's very much easier for them to just
39:39
Speaker 2: plug people in they don't have a sense of self anymore,
39:42
Speaker 2: and put them, plug them into the digital world, which
39:45
Speaker 2: is becoming very much more exciting. I do a digital art,
39:48
Speaker 2: I could see how captivating this is. Anyone can be anything.
39:52
Speaker 2: It's the American dream and not one nightmare. Your identity
39:56
Speaker 2: is irrelevant. We've got to the stage now where what
39:58
Speaker 2: is a man, what is a woman? What is a country?
40:01
Speaker 2: What is a person? To the degree where everything is
40:05
Speaker 2: what you see is not what you get. So then
40:07
Speaker 2: plug in, you're going to be there because you can
40:09
Speaker 2: be anything. It could be literally anything.
40:12
Speaker 1: And my mind goes back to I was actually I
40:17
Speaker 1: was still in the Navy, but I was working in
40:19
Speaker 1: Holland at the time. So that was between nineteen sorry
40:24
Speaker 1: to use these ages, nineteen ninety sorry, nineteen eighty seven
40:31
Speaker 1: eighty nine, and at that stage more powerful computers were
40:38
Speaker 1: just appearing. People were moving away from the let's mention
40:42
Speaker 1: some horrors, the Acorn Electron and the BBC computer, and
40:46
Speaker 1: they were starting to get more powerful IBM computers. And
40:50
Speaker 1: with it came the software. And one of the things
40:54
Speaker 1: circulating was a game called Second Life, where you, as
41:01
Speaker 1: a human being, you went into a digital world where
41:06
Speaker 1: you could assume a personality and you know, within the
41:10
Speaker 1: limits of the technology at that time, you could you know,
41:13
Speaker 1: you could go into buildings and you could be in
41:15
Speaker 1: a city, and this was all all created stuff. But
41:21
Speaker 1: as the power of the computers moved on in Second Life,
41:24
Speaker 1: they got to the point where you could be playing
41:27
Speaker 1: the game Second Life so you're assuming a personality in
41:32
Speaker 1: second life, and in second life you go on a
41:35
Speaker 1: computer and play second life, and now your two levels
41:43
Speaker 1: detached from reality. And it was this point they started
41:46
Speaker 1: to talk about people having real psychological issues because they
41:51
Speaker 1: couldn't get their mind out of the game.
41:56
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so true visual things stay in the subconscious,
41:59
Speaker 2: don't they so much?
42:01
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I mean the three D you know games
42:08
Speaker 1: where people are actually putting on the visors. I have
42:12
Speaker 1: never done that. The only time I've put on an
42:14
Speaker 1: advisor is when I had the opportunity to fly a
42:18
Speaker 1: drone and if you put on the visor, you've got
42:21
Speaker 1: the picture from the drone. And I have to say,
42:25
Speaker 1: the feeling of vertigo was really really powerful. You were
42:29
Speaker 1: up there at two hundred feet or whatever it was.
42:33
Speaker 1: But yeah, this technology is immensely powerful. And the people
42:37
Speaker 1: creating it. You've used the word demonic a couple of times.
42:42
Speaker 1: Would you say the people creating it the demonic?
42:46
Speaker 2: They're governed by a demonic force where they're using them.
42:48
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think they're completely demonic. Some of them
42:51
Speaker 2: might be, but they're being used, aren't they?
42:55
Speaker 1: Yeah?
42:56
Speaker 2: Yeah? For what purpose? Why are we being I think
42:58
Speaker 2: I think you can see that it's actually a purpose
43:01
Speaker 2: that could be meant to be and is part of
43:05
Speaker 2: fulfilling prophecy. The beast system control and the big city
43:11
Speaker 2: is this way, because what would we do all day
43:14
Speaker 2: in the city is contained, but use these devices and
43:17
Speaker 2: things that they've got planned for us, you know, really
43:20
Speaker 2: got something up their sleeve. They wouldn't be pushing so
43:22
Speaker 2: hard if they hadn't got it all planned at the moment,
43:24
Speaker 2: so blatant with what their ideas and things are, if
43:27
Speaker 2: they hadn't really thought through something to back it up
43:30
Speaker 2: with technology, or getting rid of us, or getting rid
43:33
Speaker 2: of the problematic people, as they're doing openly now in prison.
43:37
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, they are doing that. And of course we've
43:41
Speaker 1: got to the stage now where we can have no
43:44
Speaker 1: pray zones, so you can be breaking the law, you
43:47
Speaker 1: can be in court as a result of praying. And
43:52
Speaker 1: I felt when I first came across this, I thought
43:55
Speaker 1: it was immensely interesting because they were clearly frightened of
44:03
Speaker 1: people praying. And I thought to myself, Okay, somebody is
44:06
Speaker 1: outside an abortion clinic and they pray. And of course
44:11
Speaker 1: one of the things the state says is the person
44:14
Speaker 1: praying is threatening people going in the clinic, But that
44:21
Speaker 1: seemed to be to me to be a very weak explanation.
44:24
Speaker 1: I rather thought that the people who were creating the
44:27
Speaker 1: agenda were actually feeling nervous and frightened of the act
44:34
Speaker 1: of prayer itself.
44:36
Speaker 2: I agree with that. I can't say why exactly agree,
44:39
Speaker 2: but I can visualize and say exactly, I've seen a
44:41
Speaker 2: similar thing. Yes, they are afraid of it.
44:47
Speaker 1: They're afraid of it. And if they're afraid of it,
44:51
Speaker 1: it actually says to me. That's the next step is
44:54
Speaker 1: that it says to me, absolutely the real battle is
44:57
Speaker 1: a spiritual battle. It's not it's not a man in
45:01
Speaker 1: politics battle, No.
45:03
Speaker 2: It is. It is, definitely, which is why we really
45:06
Speaker 2: need to be doing more research and allowing one or
45:08
Speaker 2: two people who want to go that deep right down
45:10
Speaker 2: into the rabbit hole to do it without being locked
45:13
Speaker 2: up or you.
45:14
Speaker 1: Know, well, that's that's why it's good to go to
45:17
Speaker 1: events and actually be able to like, you know, like
45:21
Speaker 1: the music event we went to all the the in
45:24
Speaker 1: the light up in Cumbria where you were talking to
45:29
Speaker 1: somebody and very often I said to them, you know,
45:31
Speaker 1: are you enjoying it? And if you are. Why And
45:35
Speaker 1: they said, because we can talk to people, we can
45:38
Speaker 1: just talk about anything, and we're not worried about what
45:41
Speaker 1: we say. And also they were echoing back and people
45:47
Speaker 1: are so nice and we're laughing and joking and we're normal.
45:51
Speaker 2: M Yeah, seeing normal people on TV and things is
45:55
Speaker 2: rare these days, isn't it. All the presenters and things.
45:58
Speaker 2: I get astonished sometimes if I see somebody who's on
46:01
Speaker 2: the TV or even in alternative media who's actually acting normal.
46:04
Speaker 2: As you say, it's that normal vibe you're getting from somebody.
46:07
Speaker 2: It's sort of you don't see it everywhere anymore. To you,
46:10
Speaker 2: it's sort of dying in a way.
46:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, because people have got a mask on where they've
46:14
Speaker 1: put a mask on out of fear of upsetting the rules.
46:20
Speaker 1: If I say this, I'm going to be in trouble.
46:22
Speaker 1: So they end up with this very sort of austere
46:26
Speaker 1: personality because actually they're frightened of saying something which could
46:30
Speaker 1: be interpreted that they've broken the rules.
46:34
Speaker 2: Yes, it's very frightening though, how people could be mobilized
46:36
Speaker 2: as they wear with COVID, you know, COVID marshals and
46:40
Speaker 2: people being sort of bothered for their beliefs and being
46:45
Speaker 2: sort of extremely considered extreme if they don't go along
46:48
Speaker 2: with things. Who would have. Must be such badly educated
46:51
Speaker 2: generations to not recognize this as totalitarianism though, mustn't it?
46:55
Speaker 2: They're just not aware, are they?
46:58
Speaker 1: Well? I suppose what's happened is that when people have
47:03
Speaker 1: lived for several generations in a very calm, calm environment,
47:09
Speaker 1: no civil wars, no revolutions, you know, no real bloodshed,
47:15
Speaker 1: everybody's got comfortable, and they've stopped, They've stopped being alert
47:21
Speaker 1: to dangers. I think that's what it is. People are
47:25
Speaker 1: too nice, they're too comfortable.
47:27
Speaker 2: Yes, it's true, too infantile as well, and you know,
47:31
Speaker 2: maybe not talk the right things at school.
47:34
Speaker 1: Well, we know that's true, isn't it? Because education is
47:37
Speaker 1: all about helping people slip into the to the lifestyle
47:41
Speaker 1: that the state wants. That's how I see it.
47:45
Speaker 2: It is very much.
47:46
Speaker 1: So, Sam. Is your book about your journey or is
47:51
Speaker 1: it about what the state really is?
47:54
Speaker 2: It's about both really the state, the system, what it
47:58
Speaker 2: really represents, and how that is going to come to
48:02
Speaker 2: look more and more like biblical crazy end times as
48:07
Speaker 2: the years and months pass. I believe it's not finished
48:09
Speaker 2: its madness yet, and it does well to understand the
48:12
Speaker 2: characteristics that are at work. Anyway, if you don't want
48:15
Speaker 2: to go too deep, if you don't want to read
48:17
Speaker 2: all the bits, I've put cross references where you can
48:20
Speaker 2: find the important. As I said, now has come the
48:22
Speaker 2: time to destroy those who destroy the earth, or if
48:25
Speaker 2: anyone is to go into captivity and captivity they go.
48:28
Speaker 2: I put real bullet points if you want to reduce
48:31
Speaker 2: it to something like that for people, so that they
48:34
Speaker 2: can just see it, see it where it's referenced, and
48:36
Speaker 2: have a think for themselves. They don't have to go that.
48:39
Speaker 1: And what's the book called? Have you got a name yet? Then?
48:43
Speaker 2: Yes, it's already been up for since it came out
48:45
Speaker 2: before COVID. I felt compelled to write it, just before
48:48
Speaker 2: any sign of COVID, had to get it done, had
48:50
Speaker 2: to get it done. Perversity, Culture of the End Times.
48:54
Speaker 2: And it's on Amazon.
48:56
Speaker 1: Oh right, okay, I will, I will go to Amazon
49:00
Speaker 1: so I can I can get an image and we
49:03
Speaker 1: can we can just put that up on screen for
49:05
Speaker 1: people to see. And how many how many pages is it's.
49:09
Speaker 2: Quite it's around one hundred and fifty. It's quite a
49:12
Speaker 2: small book, so it's just contained there so you can
49:15
Speaker 2: cross reference. Nothing to do showy or it wasn't meant
49:19
Speaker 2: to be a work of art genius showing off. It
49:22
Speaker 2: was there to help people if possible, and this strange
49:24
Speaker 2: time that.
49:25
Speaker 1: We need to help people understand what was happening around them. Yeah, yeah,
49:30
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. If we see people following along plans
49:39
Speaker 1: and concepts that are in the end times in the Bible.
49:44
Speaker 1: If we see people following seemingly follow those those plans
49:49
Speaker 1: and policies, what does what does that make the people
50:00
Speaker 1: doing it? I'm trying to avoid certain words here and
50:03
Speaker 1: just get you to respond to that. So around us
50:07
Speaker 1: we see people who certainly appear to be helping a
50:13
Speaker 1: system unfold which is predicted in the Bible. What makes
50:19
Speaker 1: them do that? Where do they get their knowledge from?
50:22
Speaker 1: Do they read the Bible and say do they read
50:25
Speaker 1: the Bible with a different mindset and say, oh, this
50:28
Speaker 1: is interesting it says this will use that. So they
50:33
Speaker 1: could be they could be one hundred and eighty degrees
50:36
Speaker 1: out from.
50:37
Speaker 3: You and I.
50:39
Speaker 1: Their whole life ethos is different, but they use the
50:45
Speaker 1: same book as guidance for what they should be doing.
50:48
Speaker 1: Is that a possibility.
50:50
Speaker 2: Yes, well, there are some Satanists that work, and that's
50:53
Speaker 2: been outlawed, any belief in Satanism. People go with SRA
50:58
Speaker 2: abuse testament to the police station. There isn't even a
51:02
Speaker 2: department there that will receive it. They'll get shown the door.
51:05
Speaker 2: I mean, as John Wedger explained to me, that you
51:08
Speaker 2: know that there is no department for it that says
51:11
Speaker 2: says it all. And there I met. I've known a
51:14
Speaker 2: number of people who are survivors of SRA, and I'm
51:17
Speaker 2: quite convinced, you know, it does definitely exist. I saw
51:20
Speaker 2: a hint of it in the village I was in.
51:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, you bring the subject that Satanists in I presume
51:29
Speaker 1: because in your mind that Satanists do work to a
51:32
Speaker 1: set of rules, which is counter Oh.
51:35
Speaker 2: Yes, Marianna Provnich, Marianna Bronovich, she's been deemed head of
51:44
Speaker 2: She was put forward for the job in Ukraine as
51:47
Speaker 2: head of children's education and children. Did you hear there
51:51
Speaker 2: was a picture of her with them.
51:56
Speaker 1: You are ringing a bell with me? I think this
51:59
Speaker 1: is something which I saw. And then as there's a
52:03
Speaker 1: little bell ringing here, that's pretty horrible. We remind the audience.
52:07
Speaker 1: This is the woman who was associated with the spirit
52:11
Speaker 1: cooking and pictures of dismembered edabull bodies, as it were
52:19
Speaker 1: on a tables of the elite in New York. I
52:24
Speaker 1: think it was Abramovich. Bramovich as the lady, and you
52:29
Speaker 1: were saying that she appeared in Ukraine with the possibility.
52:35
Speaker 2: To be pictured. She was pictured with Zelenski. You've chosen
52:38
Speaker 2: to be the head of children and children's education in
52:41
Speaker 2: the Ukraine, which seem an astonishing thing to pull out
52:44
Speaker 2: of the hats, but not if you understand how these
52:46
Speaker 2: things are going and moving. So there are some very
52:50
Speaker 2: dark elements involved and people who do this sort of thing.
52:52
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, there's also a lot of
52:54
Speaker 2: people who are trained to react to the spiritual thing
52:59
Speaker 2: that and you know, feeling imbibed and and sort of
53:04
Speaker 2: highly spiritual. They'll fully down as the natural instinct. It's
53:08
Speaker 2: a basic instinct thing with them. It's not necessarily they've
53:10
Speaker 2: read anything, and they've been encouraged to people have been
53:14
Speaker 2: encouraged to think that that's okay because it's it's a target.
53:19
Speaker 2: I think with any dictatorship, they want a group, a
53:22
Speaker 2: subroup who's a bit of a target. And I think
53:24
Speaker 2: we've had child abuse survivors, We've had veterans and old people.
53:28
Speaker 2: These are people who are more likely to have a
53:30
Speaker 2: backbone and some strength to them and some indignation towards
53:32
Speaker 2: the government and sense of right and wrong sometimes and
53:35
Speaker 2: they think we're a bit more rebellious. That's you know.
53:38
Speaker 1: And if those people are to be crushed, those people
53:41
Speaker 1: to be squashed.
53:42
Speaker 2: Yes, And the spiritual strength that you get from being
53:45
Speaker 2: through things coming out intact makes you a threat to
53:49
Speaker 2: what they possess, which is just control. And this modern
53:53
Speaker 2: leftism is about control. It's about it's following orders and
53:57
Speaker 2: control with anti nature because everything is just to construct.
54:01
Speaker 2: And you know, you can't have that spiritual sense of
54:04
Speaker 2: being because it is just be constructed, wouldn't it You
54:07
Speaker 2: were born in blank slate, your product of your processes
54:09
Speaker 2: that got you to a stage where you're at the
54:11
Speaker 2: structure you're not. It make me dehumanizes you. Yeah, So
54:16
Speaker 2: how dare you? How dare you have that energy in
54:18
Speaker 2: that sense? To me, I've come across that quite a bit.
54:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to recount to little stories. They're true, true stories.
54:26
Speaker 1: One is that many years ago we the UK column
54:32
Speaker 1: invited a gentleman called Mohammed Nazine to give a talk
54:37
Speaker 1: in the guild Hall in Plymouth, and at that time
54:41
Speaker 1: Mohammed Nazine was the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque, so
54:45
Speaker 1: it's Muslim and we had gone in contact because I
54:52
Speaker 1: had been to a talking event where people were talking
54:56
Speaker 1: about their concerns as to what was happening in the country.
55:01
Speaker 1: He was talking about the fact that there seemed to
55:04
Speaker 1: be an agenda to turn on Muslims in this country,
55:10
Speaker 1: particularly young male Muslims, so they were being arrested in
55:14
Speaker 1: the early hours of the morning and carted off, and
55:17
Speaker 1: there was a lot of fear in some of the communities.
55:21
Speaker 1: I was talking about the political charity Common Purpose, and
55:25
Speaker 1: in a conversation I had with him, he said he
55:30
Speaker 1: was amazed to hear what I had to say and
55:33
Speaker 1: I said, why is that and he said, well, because
55:35
Speaker 1: you're white and you're from a professional background, and you
55:39
Speaker 1: live in the south of the country and we thought
55:42
Speaker 1: what was happening was only happening in the working class
55:45
Speaker 1: areas and this was fascinating and he invited me to
55:51
Speaker 1: give a talk in Birmingham Central Mosque, which I did.
55:55
Speaker 1: It was an amazing experience because although the talk actually
55:59
Speaker 1: in the mob was an hour, when I came out
56:02
Speaker 1: of the main hall, all of the women and children
56:05
Speaker 1: were in that foyer area and I then ended up
56:10
Speaker 1: talking to the women for about an hour and twenty minutes,
56:13
Speaker 1: and then I ended up talking with young men in
56:15
Speaker 1: the car park for about another hour and a half.
56:19
Speaker 1: But I did the talk, warning them to the best
56:23
Speaker 1: of my ability at that time, that we were going
56:26
Speaker 1: to see terrible things unfold in UK and they would
56:31
Speaker 1: be targeted, as would other other groups. And then I
56:36
Speaker 1: in return invited him to come to Plymouth to give
56:39
Speaker 1: a talk, and he was fascinating because he was He
56:44
Speaker 1: was quite nervous before he came down. He said to
56:46
Speaker 1: me at one point, what am I going to talk about?
56:48
Speaker 1: And I said, you talk about what comes into your heart.
56:52
Speaker 1: And his talk to a white professional audience in Plymouth,
56:58
Speaker 1: largely people who call them so was Christian, was about
57:01
Speaker 1: why he came to England to escape violence and unrest
57:06
Speaker 1: and murders and all the rest of it in Pakistan.
57:10
Speaker 1: And he said, when I arrived in this country, it
57:12
Speaker 1: was like arriving in a beautiful duel. This island with
57:17
Speaker 1: perfect weather, and it was so green, and it was peaceful,
57:21
Speaker 1: and I didn't have to worry about things hurting my family.
57:26
Speaker 1: So that's how he started his talk. And then he said,
57:29
Speaker 1: but look at it now, and he then described he
57:34
Speaker 1: was the newcomer, he was the outsider. He then described
57:39
Speaker 1: to that white, largely professional audience in Plymouth, what was
57:44
Speaker 1: happening to the country and the breakdown, and you could
57:47
Speaker 1: have heard a pin drop. And then he said, and
57:51
Speaker 1: if you really want to understand it, you need to
57:54
Speaker 1: understand what evil is and how evil works. And he
58:00
Speaker 1: gave the most fantastic description. And one thing that always
58:05
Speaker 1: stayed with me. He said, at one point, the thing
58:08
Speaker 1: to remember is that evil, the real power of evil
58:12
Speaker 1: is like it's like a cloud or a mist, so
58:17
Speaker 1: it can you can see it or you cannot see it,
58:21
Speaker 1: but some but it can also move through you. And
58:25
Speaker 1: at the end of his talk he was surrounded by
58:29
Speaker 1: people who wanted to know more. And I thought to myself,
58:32
Speaker 1: my goodness, here you are, as the stranger, the Muslim
58:35
Speaker 1: talking to this white audience and this type of conversation
58:40
Speaker 1: as I've never seen Vickers giving it in the churches.
58:46
Speaker 1: And that That was a real eye opener to me.
58:50
Speaker 1: And what was the other story along these lines?
58:54
Speaker 2: What it was?
58:55
Speaker 1: It was I was, on one occasion invited to give
58:57
Speaker 1: a talk in the Baptist church in Truro. I was
59:01
Speaker 1: very reluctant to do it because I thought, who am
59:04
Speaker 1: I to give this talk? But I tried to take
59:08
Speaker 1: what I saw happening and to the best of my
59:11
Speaker 1: limited ability and biblical things, put it in Bible terms.
59:16
Speaker 1: And there was probably about forty maybe forty five people.
59:21
Speaker 1: There wasn't a huge audience. But when I finished and
59:24
Speaker 1: there was a general conversation, people said to me, nobody
59:28
Speaker 1: has ever talked to us like that in this church.
59:32
Speaker 1: And then they also said, or a couple of them said, Brian,
59:36
Speaker 1: everything you're talking about, which included witchcraft and the dark Arts,
59:41
Speaker 1: is happening around us here in Cornwall, which of course
59:45
Speaker 1: is absolutely true. So I'm giving you a little bit
59:50
Speaker 1: of my journey. But it's interesting that this subject of
59:54
Speaker 1: spiritual it is a spiritual power did come in really strongly.
1:00:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't like it, even the church, do they.
1:00:02
Speaker 1: Sometimes the church doesn't like it at all because it's
1:00:06
Speaker 1: not a proper church. So of course they start to run.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: If you're telling the truth, Sam, I'm going to say,
1:00:16
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating discussion. I'm looking at the clock a
1:00:20
Speaker 1: little bit because I think we're probably we're probably at
1:00:23
Speaker 1: a point where we should end. But I know that
1:00:26
Speaker 1: out there a lot of people now are very fractious.
1:00:31
Speaker 1: They're very nervous. People are getting anxious. They're getting depressed
1:00:36
Speaker 1: because they do They might not understand it all, but
1:00:40
Speaker 1: they do get this feeling that there's something very nasty
1:00:44
Speaker 1: and oppressive unfolding. Give us some give us some upbeat
1:00:50
Speaker 1: thoughts to end this discussion.
1:00:53
Speaker 2: How do we, yes, just just keep talking, don't let
1:00:58
Speaker 2: them silence. You would ever be because the more of
1:01:00
Speaker 2: us get picked off, it's easier then for them to
1:01:03
Speaker 2: control us all and call it out. I mean, I
1:01:06
Speaker 2: think eventually some people have got to call it out
1:01:08
Speaker 2: and say this is the system is behaving it like
1:01:11
Speaker 2: an Antichrist. Don't be afraid of those words, because funnily enough,
1:01:15
Speaker 2: like you said about prayer and about your presence and
1:01:18
Speaker 2: things like that being intimidating, they don't want people to
1:01:21
Speaker 2: call it out for what it is. And I think
1:01:23
Speaker 2: eventually that will be a shield. It will be all
1:01:25
Speaker 2: weapon that will just deflect in some ways. Call it out.
1:01:29
Speaker 2: You can't call everything that. Oh it's antipostist, don't be
1:01:32
Speaker 2: mad about it. But don't be afraid of saying that
1:01:34
Speaker 2: is that is so far offbeat, that's antichrist, that's beyond
1:01:39
Speaker 2: the pale.
1:01:40
Speaker 1: Yes, by using the real words and the real descriptors,
1:01:44
Speaker 1: you actually that has.
1:01:46
Speaker 3: Power does definitely, and prayer has power indeed, and for
1:01:53
Speaker 3: it to have real power, it's probably wise to acknowledge
1:01:57
Speaker 3: that you're actually praying to a love god.
1:02:00
Speaker 1: This is a key thing which people miss.
1:02:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: True, Well, Sam, it's been it's been brilliant. It's been
1:02:11
Speaker 1: really interesting, and it's been fun because I know we
1:02:14
Speaker 1: spoke briefly whatever it was a few months ago, but
1:02:17
Speaker 1: apart from that, there's been a really long gap in
1:02:20
Speaker 1: our communication. Probably most of that will be my fault
1:02:24
Speaker 1: because I get swamped a bit with emails and WhatsApps
1:02:29
Speaker 1: and telegrams, et cetera. But there we go. But it's
1:02:32
Speaker 1: been great to catch up. And I will order myself
1:02:36
Speaker 1: a copy of your book tonight and we'll make sure
1:02:39
Speaker 1: that's that's up. Is there anything else you're doing you'd
1:02:44
Speaker 1: like us to share with the audience so that we
1:02:47
Speaker 1: could give you some support.
1:02:49
Speaker 2: Or not as such, No, not really. I'm on Twitter
1:02:52
Speaker 2: a lot, Sam Hill twelve if you want to find me,
1:02:55
Speaker 2: and YouTube Sam Hill twelve as well, so I'm out
1:02:59
Speaker 2: there videos and talking if you'd like to know more.
1:03:03
Speaker 1: Brilliant right, Thank you very much for joining me.
1:03:07
Speaker 2: Thank you very much too,