Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / The Competitor’s Journey: Chef Patrick Mitchell on Competitions & Certification Ep. 169

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The Competitor’s Journey: Chef Patrick Mitchell on Competitions & Certification Ep. 169 · Chef's PSA Podcast

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Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA.
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I'm your host Andre Natera. Today I'm joined by Chef Patrick
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Mitchell, corporate culinary ambassador for Benny Keith Foods
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headquartered in Fort Worth, TX Chef Patrick was named the 2016
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ACF National Chef of the Year, and he's also the author of The
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Plating Window with a second book on the way.
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We're talking chef certification, culinary
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competitions, what it takes to keep pushing yourself as a
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professional chef. Stay tuned.
0:39
Great restaurants don't always bring customers in.
0:41
Great stories do, because in food, beverage and hospitality,
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what you sell is only part of the story.
0:49
It's the why behind it, the authority you create and the
0:52
experience that you built. Market Scale turns expertise
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into content that connects podcasts, video series and
1:01
industry education, not ads assets.
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Market Scale has brought run the pass and how to manage like an
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executive chef to life real world examples of how great
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content leads the conversation. Because attention is earned and
1:18
the industry doesn't need more noise.
1:20
It needs more leaders. For people that don't know, we
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work together. I don't know, I've probably
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close to 10 years. Obviously I've known you for for
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27 years, right. And you know, I talk about this
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often on the on the podcast is my early, you know, my culinary
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childhood and my upbringing being around competitions and,
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and, and the ACF and, and growing up in that environment
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around a lot of chefs and the network and the food grazers and
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the competitions, everything that goes with it.
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But the missing part to a lot of those stories is a lot of that
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was with you. So I think for the audience
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listening, I would probably say the the first question I would
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ask you is throughout your career as a chef, approximately
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how many competitions have you competed in?
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Oh wow. Well, you know, the book talks
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about the 40 year journey from my first competition and how I
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got started in it until I I really quit competing.
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But in those forty years I would say, you know, 70 I think would
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be a good guess. I didn't do 2A year every year
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religiously, but there were a lot of years that I didn't do
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any and a lot of years I did two or three, maybe 4, so I think
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that's a good number. 70 Yeah. How many of them did you win?
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Oh geez, Andre in my mind. I should have won all of them,
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but. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a tough,
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you know, I think I won a little bit in every one of them because
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you learn something in each competition.
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And I tell people when they when their first competitions, the
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most important part of the competition is the critique
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because that's where you really learn.
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And, you know, you can put all kinds of great food out there
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and all that stuff. But but when you get critiqued,
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that's you learn the secrets. Yeah.
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You know, you, you carry so much knowledge in, in competition and
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professionalism and I will commend you on the show here.
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About what a professional. No, correct me if I'm wrong, you
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won the ACF Chef Professionalism Award.
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For the central region, yeah, it was a big honor.
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I won that I think in 2005 and it's the LJ minor
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professionalism award and and they awarded to one chef out of
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each of the four regions. And then they have the national
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champion that they select one of those four for national.
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But it's based on things that you've done, bringing up
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apprentices, doing things to really promote the industry and
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the profession, you know, and, and.
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Well, the reason I bring this up because I have a great story,
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which maybe you haven't thought of in 20 years, but it's about
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the professionalism that you have.
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So we were doing the you had won the Dallas Morning News Rising
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Starship competition. Do you remember this?
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Yeah, you remember. I don't remember what year you
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would have. Won.
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I don't either. But it probably was like 2002 or
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so, right? And I want to say the year or so
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after I was competing in the competition for the Dallas
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Morning News Rising Star Chef, right?
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And it was my first year competing.
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And you had really encouraged me to compete in this, in this
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competition. And it wasn't my first cooking
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competition, but for me it was, it was still early.
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It was like the second or third. It was, I hadn't done many.
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I had done a couple in Denver, but nothing, nothing really.
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And we had, we had done a lot of coaching, but you were very
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strict about coaching me because you're also judging.
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Do you remember? Was I judging that?
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You were judging. You were for sure judging.
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And this is exactly where this story is going.
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OK, so you were judging the competition.
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This speaks to your professionalism in a good way.
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And you know why I despise your professionalism so much still to
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this day. So I'm in the cooking
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competition. And for people that don't know,
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back then this was kind of a big deal, this rising star chef
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competition in Dallas. And there's questions you had to
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qualify to get into it. Yeah, right.
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And it was at the Fairmont. Yeah, it was at Inside the
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Brasserie, Inside the Brasserie at the Fairmont in Dallas.
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This was when the Fairmont Dallas was the Fairmont Dallas.
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And Roger Hyde was the chef, I think at the time.
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And I remember they had camera crews in there and they're
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filming everything for the competition.
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And I don't remember what I was making.
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I was making like some knock off of a Charlie Trotter dish and I
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was making mashed potatoes and I was mashing them and I was
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pouring the cream. And I got nervous because the
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cameraman was standing on the stainless steel above top shot
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down watching me mix. And I was pouring in the cream.
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And I got so nervous that I poured too much cream.
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And it was just like soup, right?
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And so I ended up losing the competition.
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And I remember the first thing you came out because you didn't
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know which one was my dish. You did not know which one was
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my dish until after you came up to me and said, was that your
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dish? And I said, yeah, that was my
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dish. And he said, I'll never forget.
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He said, what the hell happened with the potatoes?
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And I was like, well, you knew it was my dish.
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Why did I not win regardless of the potatoes?
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But I ended up winning later on when you weren't the judge.
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So. But for people that often talk
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about, sometimes there's a conflict of interest in
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competitions because you're judging your friends, you're
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judging your peers, people that you you travel with, you compete
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with people that you've known through through the federation.
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And sometimes you got to be hard on them and tell them, hey,
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potatoes suck. Well, you know, that's the same
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people people talk about. You know, I try not to get
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myself in those situations, but if I have a competitor that
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worked for me or that I know or something like that, and I have
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to judge them, I have to judge them.
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So you have to be fair. You have to be honest with them.
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Nobody appreciates winning something that's been given to
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them, so you know it would do them a disservice.
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Yeah. What is What is your current
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role with competitions and when was the last time you competed
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in a competition? Well, the last time I competed
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was at the Global Chef's Challenge in Kuala Lumpur, and
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that was in 2018. Currently, after that, I I've
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stepped down from competition and I am judging, I'm mentoring,
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coaching, doing those kind of things, helping support those
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coming up. So I want to get into the
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mindset of a competitor. And by the way, great book for
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people. So for people that are
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listening, can you tell people the the title of the book?
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Yeah. It's the plating window and it's
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culinary competitions, stories of culinary competitions, a
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chef's journey and it's the 40 year journey of how I got
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started and introduced the competitions until that Kuala
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Lumpur competition and then actually a little bit beyond
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that into mentoring and then kind of giving back.
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Yeah, the beautiful cover too. Is that me on the cover with
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you? Not, is it?
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That's interesting choice. Well, this interview's over.
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I. Knew I was going.
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To be that short. One, no, I'm kidding.
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It's a great book. But the reason I want to get
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into the competition's a little bit is because I think
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immediately people think competitions are not for me and
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why would I compete there? You know, sometimes from the
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outside looking in, you might not immediately see the value of
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a competition. I recall a time that you had
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come and helped one of my sous chefs prepare for a competition.
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You came in and you did some coaching for them and there were
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so many little things that we don't think about when we're in
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the culinary operation, when we're in the restaurants of how
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much crossover there actually is between culinary competitions
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and the daily culinary operation, how they improve each
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other. Well, I guess the first question
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is why is it important for a chef to compete?
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What are some of the advantages that you received from being a
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culinary competitor and what are some of the advantages that you
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think that someone just, you know, a chef in a hotel or a
9:21
restaurant would get from competing?
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Well, you know, a lot of people say competition is not, it's not
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real life, it's not what you do in a kitchen day-to-day.
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And, and I argue that point with the fact that what you gain out
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of competition, it forces you to work at a very high level of
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competency for extended period of time.
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And when you up your game and work at that level for extended
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period of time, when you go back to work, you don't say, OK, now
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I'm going to go back to the lower level that I used to work
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at. That's, that's your new
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standard. And then people in the kitchen
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see that new standard and they, they kind of emulate that
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standard as well. So, you know, that's, that's
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what I've gained out of competition.
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There's, there's creativity, there's seeing new, new ideas,
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different things that other competitors are doing.
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And it's, and it's also, it forces you to be very organized,
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setting up your workstation, organized, working, clean,
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working, meticulous. These are all things that that
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just translate to success in the industry.
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And in general, what are the, obviously there's all sorts of
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competitions, but what are the main types of competitions that
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most people will compete in that you could probably find, you
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know, throughout the United States and all over the world?
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So the American, the American Culinary Federation and Wax, the
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World Association of Chef Society kind of aligned pretty
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well. And most of the the competitions
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these days are hot food competitions.
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Could be a wild card competition where there's a specific
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protein. There could be a mystery basket
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competition where you're given ingredients and you have to
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create whatever the criteria is. There's also cold food
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competitions and that's whether it be hot food or cold food
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presented cold. So it's usually glazed with
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aspect and put on a mirror and and displayed that way.
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Not not cooked in front of the judges, but cooked off site and
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brought in pastry. Competitions are the same.
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I want to talk a little bit more about hot food presented cold
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because I think a lot of people don't understand that and they
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possibly don't understand what the benefit is of doing a hot
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food presented cold. But I know, I I know you've
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coached me through a couple of those way back.
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And I learned so much just from and I didn't win, but I learned
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so much just from competing in those competitions of the hot
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food presented cold. Yeah.
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Can you talk about what are some of the important things that
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separate a good competitor from maybe someone that's not going
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to win in a hot food presented cold competition?
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Well, you know, it's attention to detail.
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It's attention to, you know, you're, you're cooking the food
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just like you would cook it on the line, but then you're
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cooling it and you're glazing at an aspect.
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And the aspect is is really a gelatin mixture.
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And the reason you're glazing it is to seal it, keep it from
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drying out, give it a nice Sheen and A and a good appearance to
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it on the plate. If you don't take care of the,
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the first things properly, the proper cooking and, and things
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like that, some people will say, let's say a grilled scallop.
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I'm going to put this grilled scallop on this plate.
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Well, they'll take the scallop and you know, you probably
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aren't going to cook it on a grill.
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You're probably going to take a, a skewer and heat it up and, and
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make those lines on there perfectly spaced.
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So it's beautiful, but you got to do the other side too, even
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though it's, you know, a lot of people think I just have to do
12:47
the top. Well, judges look at that and
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and then say, OK, if you did it that way, that's fine.
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But that tells me you don't know how to cook a scallop because
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you're not going to put it on there and just do one side.
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You're going to do both sides. So, you know, little things like
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that, attention to detail, the sauce, the way the sauce is done
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with gelatin in that nice Sheen to it.
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You know, I can think back to the competition that I did and,
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and you were coaching me through it and I had to do a consume and
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I remember having the process of so we had the Consomera ready
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with gelatin in it. We pour a little bit and then we
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put a little garnish vegetables. Then we pour a little bit more
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and set it, put a little bit more garnish vegetables, then
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pour a little bit more into it would have the appearance of it
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being floating throughout. And so, so those are some of the
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little things that I think people like, Oh, it's just cold
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food. No, there's a lot to it.
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Yeah. And, and yeah, you want it to to
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look like, you know, so, so back to a hot plate presented cold.
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You know, you're going to have some vegetables on there.
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You're going to glaze those vegetables, you're going to cook
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them. I put a Sheen of aspect on it.
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We'll then also sprinkle a little seasoning on that and
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then dip it again in aspect so that that seasoning is so now it
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looks like a a nice seasoned vegetable.
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The sauce I talked about, you're going to put everything on the
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plate and then you're going to pour the sauce in so it flows in
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under. So it looks like that product is
14:03
sitting in the sauce. Rather than putting the sauce on
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the plate, it hardens and then you set the the steak on top of
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the sauce. Well, you can see that it's
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sitting on top. So it's little things like that
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that make a difference. When, when you're judging those
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competitions, how, how big of a difference typically is it
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between gold and silver? Like, what are some of the what
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are some of the things that a gold medalist would do that the
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silver medalist isn't catching just yet?
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Wow, that's really hard. There's there's so many things
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that they go into it, but it's the finesse of the work, the
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craftsmanship, the the again, attention to detail.
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You know how if they're showing technique instead of just, you
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know, doing a, a piece of meat on the plate or you know, a
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piece of fish on the plate, maybe they're, they're making a
14:52
nice seafood sausage to go with that piece of fish and then a
14:56
grilled scallop to go there too. So they're, they're showing
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multiple cooking techniques and, and just, you know, just really
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precise cuts, precise things in that sausage.
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Even there may be some vegetables that are in there.
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What's the cut on those vegetables?
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When you think back to your career of over 70 plus
15:19
competitions, is there one that sticks out more than others like
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a highlight? You know, I think, I think when
15:28
when we won National Chef of the Year, that was a really fun
15:32
competition. What year was that?
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That was in 2016. What?
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What does the competition look like to win National Chef of the
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Year? Well, it changes.
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I'm on the national competition committee now.
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But when I did it, it was we were assigned 2 proteins.
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I could bring in two apprentices to help out.
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Those apprentices could work on anything but the protein.
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I had to fabricate the proteins. I had to do all the work on the
16:00
proteins I could get it ready to go into the oven and hand it to
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The Apprentice that was working there and then say.
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You know what's the requirement for The Apprentice That's with
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you. Well, they can do anything but
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the proteins. They could do any, yeah.
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So do they have like a certain age limit that they?
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Have to. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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There were. I can't remember what it is.
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I think it was under 22 or something like that.
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That that's what you're doing? Called me.
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Yes, yes. Among other reasons, no, but,
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and you know, we had, we were given rainbow trout and rabbit
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and we had to do 4 different dishes, 2 with rainbow trout, 2
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with the rabbit, had to do 4 portions of each of the four
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dishes, fabricate the product, bone it out, do all that stuff.
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And we had one hour and we were cooking our asses off.
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We, it, it was fun. It was just just an energy that
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I, I, you know, can't express. What are, what are some of the
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things that you can do 'cause I'm thinking, OK, now it's not a
17:00
lot of time, especially to come up with that many dishes.
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And so I'm sure there's a lot of practice that goes into it.
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But I'm sure you have techniques that you have, you know, ready
17:09
to go that will give you maximum flavor, minimal amount of time.
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So what are some of those techniques that you use that
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maybe maybe that other competitors could learn from,
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but also maybe people that are in the restaurant could say
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that's actually a great technique that I can incorporate
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into the operation? So, you know, one of the first
17:27
things we, you know, we, we took a look at it and you're, you're
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talking, you know, when you, when you start doing 4 different
17:32
entrees, I mean, that's, that's a lot of food.
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Plus, are you going to get 8 portions of eight entree
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portions out of out of a trout? No, you're probably going to
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have to bring in 2 trout, probably going to have to bring
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in 2 rabbit. So we looked at the rules, we
17:48
got clarification and everybody's assuming entree, but
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we said let's, we're going to do appetizer portions.
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So now I only had to fabricate 1 trout.
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I only had to fabricate 11 rabbit.
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And then, you know, you kind of look at some different things.
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You want to show technique, you want to show classic skills.
18:08
So one of the trout dishes, you know, I, I did a, a classic
18:11
poach where I, I cut the medallions of trout.
18:14
I put it in a buttered pan, put some, some shallots and, and
18:19
celery and dill in, in the pan, a little bit of white wine and
18:24
then covered it with a buttered cartouche and put it in the oven
18:27
and, and just a classic poach. I pulled that out.
18:29
It was, it was well seasoned. Oh, and I piped a, a seafood
18:33
mousse on top of it. And then I, I took that, that,
18:36
that white wine that it poached in and I created a sauce out of
18:39
that. So I, you know, I'm showing that
18:41
technique of, of using the, the pan drippings, if you will, to,
18:45
to create your sauce and, and just a small little thing
18:49
beautiful with some fava beans and turned that into a, a bur
18:53
Blanc sauce. Different things.
18:55
You know, I, you know, I've done a lot of reloads in my life and
18:59
the rabbit, one of them I, I did a reload of took the two
19:04
tenderloins out or the two loins out of the rabbit and took the
19:08
rest of the rabbit and made a farce, wrapped that and did kind
19:13
of a Ying and a Yang with some mushroom and red bell pepper
19:15
between them. It's all talked about in the
19:18
book. But it it, it, you know, showed
19:22
really some technique and some skill, and that's what they're
19:24
looking for. Leading up to the competition,
19:26
what is the preparation for you and The Apprentice like?
19:30
How far out are you preparing? How far out do you know exactly
19:33
what you're going to make and or is there some you have an idea
19:37
of what you're going to make and then when you get there you
19:38
might have to call an audible? They in, in those competitions,
19:43
in the, in the regional competition and the national
19:45
competition, they gave us the ingredients and told us.
19:47
And in the global competition too, they, they told us what the
19:50
ingredients were going to be. And they gave us probably 4
19:55
weeks, 5 weeks maybe in advance so that you can kind of write a
19:59
menu, you can practice it, you can look at timing, you can do
20:02
all that kind of like I said, one hour is very quick and.
20:07
So we had things down orchestrated.
20:09
It was almost like a dance. Everybody had their steps and
20:12
this and that. And, and then there's going to
20:14
be things that'll happen, you know, and, and when those things
20:17
happen, you got a you got a punt, you know, and hopefully
20:21
those things will happen before we get to the competition.
20:24
So we can kind of practice through that and understand this
20:27
is a possibility and, and prevent it.
20:29
But you know things will happen in the competition as well.
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How far out are you starting practice?
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Well, as soon as you get the ingredients, yeah, as soon as
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you find out what those ingredients are now for, for
20:40
national, you know, I started probably two, 2 1/2 months
20:46
because I had to identify my apprentices.
20:48
Who's going to going to do that? You know, I say apprentice, but
20:51
it's really more of a comedy, you know, a young, young
20:54
culinary and that's that's working with you in the kitchen.
20:57
So then we kind of had some conversation about what, what if
21:02
we get this? What if we get that?
21:04
You know what, what are we going to do?
21:06
And then before you know it, ingredients are announced and
21:11
and it's on. And do you, I mean leading up to
21:15
this, are you practicing for time is and do you have a coach
21:19
coaching you and your comedy or is it or do you take with all
21:22
the years of competition, do you take on the coaching role and
21:24
the competitor role? Now, no, I, I take, I bring on a
21:27
coach. You do, you know somebody, you
21:32
can't ask everybody. So you kind of pick one person
21:35
that you really value their judgement and and, you know,
21:42
bounce things off of them because I I may look at
21:44
something and think that's great.
21:45
And the coach says, yeah, that sucks.
21:48
So we retool it and go at it again.
21:54
But you know, and it's, and it's funny, the whole process.
21:58
And I, I tell people this all the time when whether I'm
22:01
coaching them in a competition or I'm coaching them through
22:04
their practical exam for certification, you're going to
22:08
have an idea what you want to cook.
22:09
And you get into the kitchen and you start going and man, the
22:13
wheels fall off and it's just a train wreck.
22:15
And it's like, I've been embarrassed at times like this.
22:19
This guy's going to think, I don't know how to cook.
22:20
I mean, it's been that bad. But you have to work through
22:23
that to get to the other side. And, and if you quit and give up
22:28
on that, that train wreck, you'll never get there, you
22:32
know, So I mean, that's, that's a, it's a learning experience.
22:34
And it's really all about getting things in the right
22:37
order. You know, you can, you've got
22:39
this, this, this and this to do. If you do them in the wrong
22:42
order, you'll never get done in time.
22:45
If you get them in the right order and put that puzzle
22:48
together then it can be very successful.
22:52
As culinary has evolved and trends come and go, how, how
22:57
much are competitions affected by, you know, culinary trends
23:00
through social media or through restaurants that are very
23:02
popular of the moment, restaurants.
23:05
But also how has some of the, I don't want to say the modernist
23:09
cooking movement, but you know, using hydrocolloids and cooking
23:13
with circulators and things like that.
23:15
Is that starting to be commonplace in competitions #1
23:20
and is it? Is it frowned upon, or is it is
23:23
it looked upon as a tool to make it better?
23:29
Some competitions it's frowned upon.
23:33
Other competitions it's acceptable to a degree.
23:38
It's it's another cooking method.
23:39
You know, when you talk about circulators and things like
23:41
that, think in the student competitions, they don't allow
23:46
circulators. They want, they want students in
23:49
competition to be focused on classical techniques, classical
23:53
preparations. They'll use those circulators
23:57
down the road in in the operations.
23:59
But but we really want to kind of use these competitions as a
24:03
learning experience. So sometimes, you know, and if
24:07
you, if you get into that molecular gastronomy and a lot
24:09
of people are doing jellified, you know, whether it be a little
24:13
caviar or things like that, you know, I tell people one, one of
24:18
those, if you want to do it, do, do one, but don't, don't try.
24:24
And you know, I judged the competition years ago and and it
24:26
was a dessert entry competitor did a fried egg the as as a
24:33
dessert and it was an egg white was jellified coconut, the yolk
24:39
was mango. Like the old Wiley Duprey thing
24:42
from WD 50? Yeah.
24:43
Yeah. And, and I said, you know why?
24:46
Well, because it's cool, you know, and it's just.
24:48
Yeah. But you know, you wouldn't
24:49
really serve that dessert and it has nothing to do with, you
24:53
know, so. So you can get kind of too crazy
24:55
with it if you. Yeah, and and you're not showing
24:58
like I'm just putting myself in in your shoes that day.
25:01
It's like I would have been happy with a beautiful tart.
25:03
Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, a perfectly executed tart.
25:06
Yeah, and that shows a lot of technique, you know?
25:08
And sometimes the simplest things show the most technique
25:11
you know. Yeah, it's, it's funny because
25:15
I, I want to say at this year's Bo Custior, they also removed a
25:19
lot of hydrocolloids from being allowed in the competition.
25:21
And Matt, Matt Peters and I had a really long conversation about
25:24
this, about how at the end of the day, it's about cooking and
25:27
it's about making it delicious. And you can't use tricks and
25:31
gimmicks. And you know, magic tricks only
25:32
take you so far, but you got to. It's got to taste good.
25:36
Yeah, yeah, you know, that's, that's really the essence of it.
25:43
And I think you had a a kind of a conversation with Matthew
25:45
Peters on the podcast about, you know, just just that basic, you
25:50
know, well seasoned steak. You know, of course in a
25:54
competition you do have to show technique.
25:56
So, you know, you got to get past that.
25:57
But there's there's things that you can do.
26:00
So how much then? So that leads to question like
26:03
how how important is the taste? So have you ever been in a
26:08
judging position? I'm not trying to put you too
26:09
much on the spot, but have you ever been in a position as a
26:12
judge where that tastes exceptional?
26:15
Not a lot of technique on it. That one has a ton of technique.
26:18
Yeah, that one has to win or, or I mean, how do you, how do you
26:22
decide? Well, you know, just two days
26:29
ago I was having a conversation with the, with the chef talking
26:32
about the score sheets for, for national coming up.
26:36
And the, you know, I think the primary thing when you look at
26:40
scoring kitchen and, and taste, you know, taste is the number
26:44
one. It's got to have the highest,
26:46
you know, I'd say probably 40% for taste.
26:50
Then craft skills and technique. You know, you got to show some
26:55
skill here and then after that, how does it look is kind of the
26:59
third. And then, you know, after that
27:01
you start looking at organization and then sanitation
27:05
and work habits and then all those kind of things.
27:07
But, but back to your question, I I think taste is the most
27:10
important thing, but it can taste great, can be, you know,
27:15
the best flavor you've had. But if the technique isn't
27:18
there, and if they're not showing any skill and they're
27:20
not, you know, really showing much else, it it drops pretty
27:24
quickly, you know? Yeah, it's interesting because
27:27
you're also being measured on how clean do you work and you
27:30
know, your professional skills and everything that goes with
27:33
it. You're being measured as a chef.
27:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not being measured as
27:40
you're being measured as a chef. And, and that's kind of another
27:43
thing that we talked about is that, you know, this past year,
27:48
when we judged the Chef of the year competition, they, they
27:51
could bring in one comedy to help them in the kitchen.
27:55
And that, that it was really restricted as to what, what the
27:58
comedy could do. And it's, it's really, at the
28:02
end of the day, it's the chef's decision.
28:05
If he asks that comedy to do this and to do that and that
28:08
comedy doesn't execute it well, it's going to fall on the shaft.
28:11
You know, now if if that chef is is just leaning on the comedy,
28:16
you can tell that the comedy is really the culinary in here and
28:19
the the chef is just, you know, then that's a different story,
28:23
certainly. But but even if that is the
28:26
case, like how many, I mean, not I'm, I'm just playing devil's
28:30
advocate here, but how many great chefs out there in the
28:34
world? It's their chef de cuisine that
28:35
really, well, there's a lot of that.
28:39
There's a face, but it's really the chef de cuisine in the
28:41
kitchen that's like the really the one making all the great
28:44
food. And that's very common.
28:47
So going back to competitions, mystery baskets, because I know
28:50
this is probably one of the more common ones, especially for a
28:55
lot of the local shows, you know, and I'm just throwing out
28:58
the local shows, but it's like I'm putting on a cooking
29:00
competition tomorrow. It's going to be a mystery
29:02
basket. It's not affiliated with it.
29:03
It's just like it's the go to. Not only is it the go to for
29:06
competition, it's also the go to for a lot of job interviews.
29:09
Sure, right. A lot of a lot of yeah, yeah,
29:12
yeah. A lot of culinary job interviews
29:13
for chefs, the first thing you can do is you're going to throw
29:15
them a mystery basket. Do you have anything that you do
29:19
strategically to prepare? Cause how do you prepare for a
29:22
mystery basket competition or a mystery basket job interview?
29:27
Well, you know, you have to kind of think what what, what is it
29:30
that you might get? You know, you're going to get
29:31
lamb, you're going to get pork or you're going to get chicken
29:33
or you're going to get seafood. You know what, what are you
29:35
going to get? And then, you know, what's the
29:37
old adage that we try and take the mystery out of the mystery
29:40
basket. Usually there's a pantry there
29:44
and, and they, they tell you what's going to be in the
29:47
pantry. There's some vegetables or some
29:48
starches, potatoes, rice, you know, pasta, those kind of
29:53
things. The mystery basket is usually
29:55
going to be the main protein, maybe a secondary protein and
30:00
then an ingredient, whether it be a fruit or a specific
30:04
vegetable or something like that.
30:07
And those you can always deal with.
30:08
But it depends on on what the competition is it, is it a one
30:11
course? Is it a three course?
30:12
Does it require dessert? Does it, you know, but, but
30:15
going back to those proteins, if I get chicken, here's what I'm
30:18
going to do. If I get duck, here's what I'm
30:20
going to do. I can fabricate it, do this and
30:22
the other do a roulade, do a balantine, you know, do do
30:27
different things like that. If I get duck, you know, maybe
30:30
I'm going to cone feed the, the legs, take a pressure cooker in
30:34
with me and, and cone feed the legs.
30:37
You know, when I got pheasant for regional and that, that was
30:42
a difficult one for me. Not the pheasant, but just
30:46
trying to figure out the whole thing.
30:48
But you know, I, I did a braise on the legs and then I was
30:54
trying to, to stuff the, the breast and roast it on the bone.
30:59
I wanted that nice crisp skin and I tested it and it was
31:02
beautiful, but I couldn't get it done in time.
31:05
I couldn't get the, the, the breasts to cook all the way.
31:09
And when the end of the time came, I was, you know, uncooked
31:17
pheasant. So you you can't go into a
31:19
competition like that. And I just realized I kind of
31:21
way got off of your mystery basket question.
31:24
No, no, it's OK. Bring it back to the mystery
31:25
basket. But you know, yeah.
31:27
So you, I mean, you just kind of plan, plan that way.
31:29
You know, you take a look at, you know, if I'm going to get a
31:31
loin of lamb, you're not just going to take it and bone it out
31:34
and. Lion, lamb, lion.
31:36
Do you remember? I don't remember what menu we
31:39
did and we misprinted it and said lamb lion.
31:41
I think I typed it up before I knew how to spell.
31:47
We did a, we did a venue and I remember you saying that's a Lab
31:50
Lion or a Lab Lloyd. What are we doing here?
31:55
Oh. Geez, that was before we had the
31:59
little red squiggly. We had to.
32:03
Yeah, that was back in the day. The spell checker.
32:05
The spell checker was missing. Or actually, it was spelled
32:08
right. It's lying.
32:08
Spelled correctly. Yeah.
32:11
So take the mystery out of the mystery basket.
32:13
Yeah, I mean, we could, we could get into that because that's
32:20
something that I've used a lot. Like I think back to what we
32:25
work together, you know, the certification tests and all
32:29
that. Having to go through that and
32:32
doing so many cooking interviews, The cooking
32:34
interview that we did way back then is something that I've took
32:38
with me and I talk about now on the podcast.
32:40
And I encourage people like just use this as your, as your
32:43
cooking test. But before we get into that,
32:45
because I do want to get into certification and cooking tests
32:47
and things like that for people that are interested in
32:49
competing, they don't know where to begin.
32:53
Like, let's just say I'm your one culinary school graduate.
32:56
How do I get involved? How do I get involved with
32:58
cooking competitions? How do I find a mentor?
33:00
Where? Where do I start?
33:03
Well, you can go on to the American Culinary Federation.
33:06
They've got a on the website, they've got competitions, they
33:09
have a competition calendar and it's posted there where the
33:12
competitions are. You can contact anybody in in
33:17
those competitions. It it says who the chairman is
33:20
and who the lead judge is and say, look, I'm interested, can I
33:23
come and observe this competition?
33:25
Some are kind of close competitions maybe for just a
33:27
company or something like that. But nine times out of 10 they're
33:30
going to allow you to come over and then take a look at it.
33:33
You can call go again on the American Culinary Federation
33:37
website under competitions, there's a list of ACF certified
33:41
judges. I think any if you found, and
33:44
it's by state, if you found somebody close to you and said,
33:48
I want to find out about it and called one of those judges, I
33:51
can't think of a single judge that wouldn't, wouldn't say,
33:53
yeah, if somebody called me, I'd say sure.
33:56
Texas Chefs Association has different competitions as well.
34:00
So there's, there's a lot of things out there.
34:02
Just find out where the competitions are and you can
34:04
just do a Google search and, and, and go to 1:00, ask
34:09
questions, see how it is. That's the biggest thing in a
34:12
person's mind is the unknown. They don't know what it looks
34:15
like, they don't know what it's you know.
34:16
So if you can go and see and experience it, you you get a
34:20
better opportunity. It's funny, I was, I was judging
34:23
a competition, culinary competition, and I was also in a
34:27
position similar to you when you were judging me.
34:30
Yes, I, one of my, one of my chefs was competing in the
34:33
competition and we spent so much time training and preparing him
34:39
for this competition and really focusing on technique.
34:42
Like it was a mystery basket 'cause he had no idea what he's
34:44
getting. But I was, I was trying to
34:45
explain to him like show a lot of technique.
34:47
You get tomatoes, peel the tomatoes, you get asparagus, you
34:49
know, collar them or peel them or whatever, sear it perfectly,
34:53
make sure the sauce is right. Like just you know, make sure
34:55
your knife cuts are correct. Everything.
34:57
Like we were so focused on the technique.
35:01
He ended up losing the competition.
35:03
I remember I was very upset because what he lost to was like
35:06
0 technique. It was like, I don't remember
35:08
what it was, but it wasn't good. And but it was more delicious
35:13
according to some of the other judges, but it didn't show a lot
35:16
of technique. And I remember I was upset.
35:20
And by the way, one of those other judges, your boy, I won't
35:22
say who, I won't say who's one of your guys.
35:30
Unlike you, I made sure my guy had a Ted of Ted.
35:35
He wasn't going to lose the competition.
35:36
But all joking aside, we digressed.
35:40
So he ended up losing the competition.
35:41
But his he had so much technique on there.
35:44
But it tasted, I don't want to say it tasted flat, but it
35:48
tasted like asparagus tasted like asparagus that was seasoned
35:50
tomatoes tasted like tomatoes that were seasoned, but it
35:52
didn't. It wasn't exceptional where the
35:54
other person, you know didn't have a lot of technique, but it
35:57
tasted really good. You'd put it on your restaurant
35:58
menu, you'd go back and order it again.
36:01
And I think back to those moments where it's like
36:03
sometimes maybe you could you could focus too much on the
36:06
technique and and lose the plot that it still makes it taste
36:09
good. Yeah, yeah.
36:11
So, you know, that's, that's another great point.
36:14
Everything that goes on that plate has got to be the best
36:17
tasting. If it's a carrot, it's got to be
36:19
the best tasting carrot those judges have ever tasted, you
36:22
know, so, so do whatever you can.
36:24
If you, if you blanch that, that carrot, you've got a certain
36:27
cut, you blanch it, you, you go to sweat it out.
36:32
You know, maybe a little bit of sugar in that water that you're
36:34
blanching it in just to give it a little bit of sweetness.
36:37
You know, saute it hit a little butter, maybe a little stock to,
36:42
to go in there and reduce that all down.
36:44
So it kind of creates A glaze. Season it with a little salt and
36:47
pepper, toss that all and now when you pull that out, that
36:51
whole butter and that that chicken stock and it's all
36:53
reduced down. It's got a nice glaze to it and
36:56
it's just got a really, really great flavor.
36:58
So you know, that's the thing. So again, all these techniques,
37:02
I say flavors, it's, you know, the the highest points, but you
37:07
know, you can show all these techniques and then have
37:09
horrible flavor, you know, So I mean, it's all got a it's a
37:12
balance. How do you how do you manage
37:14
your time? So you're, you're going into a
37:16
competition and you have one hour what we we've talked about
37:19
the, the technique and everything else that's going
37:21
with it and you planned it, but how do you manage your time?
37:24
Well, you know, you, you try and on an individual competition,
37:29
you try and do like I like to get the butchery and, and that,
37:33
that process out of the way quickly because I can go in
37:36
there. I can have that laid on the
37:38
cutting board. When when they say, OK, start
37:41
now I can just grab it and, and butcher, get that out of the
37:44
way, wrapped up, put away, sanitize the station and then
37:48
get a new board. And now I can start working with
37:51
vegetables and things like that and I don't have to worry too
37:53
much about cross contamination. So, you know, there's just
37:57
different techniques that you pick up.
38:00
Do you do you create a timeline? Because I remember when when we
38:03
were watching Bokus, you know, you have the the coach there
38:06
with the iPad clock and OK, you need to start mincing shallots.
38:09
You need to start doing this. Yeah, yeah.
38:11
Is your coach doing that for? You no, I in, in the now we're
38:19
switching from mystery basket competition to a, a category a
38:22
contemporary cooking kind of a thing where you know what, what
38:25
The thing is, the protein that you're going to bring in, you
38:28
either know, have have decided or you were assigned.
38:32
And in those I definitely have a timeline and I tell people to,
38:35
to do a timeline more in 15 minute increments rather than
38:40
minute by minute because in a 15 minute increment you can put
38:43
down, you know, butcher the protein, whatever it is, start
38:48
the process of the, the force meat or or whatever you know,
38:52
and do do all those things next 15 minutes, clean, sanitize.
38:55
Now you're working on your vegetables because what happens
38:58
is you post that timeline and if it's minute by minute and you're
39:02
not doing this task that was 10 minutes ago, the judges are
39:06
looking at that saying, OK, this this person's behind, you know,
39:10
but if it's just these kind of blocks of, of things, but yeah,
39:13
you have to have something that that shows them you, you're
39:16
organized, you know what you're doing, you've got a plan and
39:19
then work, work. Through that, but you're also
39:21
working very clean trays are organized.
39:23
Yeah, yeah, 1 task at a time, one knife, whatever knife that
39:29
you need for that particular task, that's all that's on the
39:31
table. You get done with that task, You
39:34
you clean that up, put that knife away, maybe change a
39:36
cutting board, bring it out, bring the next knife for for
39:39
that next. One.
39:40
Why is that so important? Because clutter, you want to
39:44
remove clutter. You know, sometimes you go into
39:45
these competitions and a person throws out their knife roll on
39:48
the on the table and pushes it off on the side.
39:50
And, you know, they're going to use three knives out of that
39:53
knife roll, maybe the steel, but you know, they're not going to,
39:57
you know, use all that other extra stuff, you know, so.
40:01
We would have like a speed rack, everything labeled for time.
40:05
You know, this is your sauce maze or whatever, right?
40:09
That's good. And and by the way, for people
40:11
listening, that same organization, I would also apply
40:14
it to the kitchen. So I used to do the same thing
40:17
for for my team. It's like I have a time block.
40:19
So you know, your first 15 minute blocks you need to come
40:22
in, you need, you need to make sure everyone has salt, fold
40:24
your towels, you know, fill, fill your pepper mill, blah,
40:26
blah, blah. Next 15 minutes, get your stocks
40:28
on, turn on the ovens, whatever. Right.
40:30
And I'm just kind of throwing it out there.
40:31
But that way for new cooks that were coming in a a lot of times
40:36
new cooks and you know, we have the curse of knowledge as chefs,
40:39
We assume everyone knows what we know, but they don't.
40:42
The new cook coming in doesn't know where to begin.
40:44
And I remember being a new cook, it's like you get your prep list
40:47
and there's 1000 things on there, but you see, you know,
40:50
cut some parsley and like, we'll just start there.
40:52
Like you start with the thing that like, it's so easy, but
40:54
it's probably not that important.
40:56
But if you come in and you have a system and you say, OK, no,
40:59
you're going to come in, you're going to start with the the
41:01
proteins, the sauces. And if you don't get to the
41:04
parsley, it's not the end of the world.
41:06
But if you don't get to the proteins.
41:08
Exactly. Exactly.
41:09
Yeah, great point. Yeah, let's talk certification.
41:15
OK. So you're, are you still a
41:18
Proctor for certification? I am, yeah.
41:20
So what are the different levels of certification just through
41:23
the American Culinary Federation?
41:25
There's, there's a multitude of them.
41:26
Of course, the highest is certified master chef.
41:30
There's, there's savory and pastry in, in all of these.
41:32
So certified master chef, certified master pastry chef,
41:35
certified executive chef, certified executive pastry chef.
41:39
And then you come down certified chef to cuisine, certified
41:44
culinarian, you know, I don't know all off the top of my head.
41:48
There's there's a a number of them in there and there's,
41:50
there's just basic entry level certifications too.
41:55
That fundamentalist I think is, is like the first one.
41:59
And you can get those in high school even really.
42:01
So yeah. So there's there's a lot of
42:03
them. That's that's cool.
42:04
I didn't, I didn't realize that now there, there's there's an
42:08
argument to be made, right. A lot of chefs are like, why
42:10
would I? Why would I need certification?
42:12
But then a lot of chefs do believe in certification.
42:15
So can you Lex Friedman is you ever watch the Lex Friedman
42:20
podcast? He always asks these questions
42:22
like can you steal man the case for certification?
42:26
So chef, can you steal man the case for people that need
42:29
certification? Well, you lost me, but I think I
42:31
know where you're going. So you know, it's, it's a
42:36
personal journey. You know, some people say it's
42:39
an ego thing and it's, it's not an ego thing really.
42:41
What it is, is it validates your level of proficiency in, in
42:47
things. So when you're going out and
42:50
interviewing for a job and, and I'm, I'm looking for a chef and
42:54
I see somebody that's a certified executive chef and I
42:56
see somebody that's not, you know, I, I know that that CEC is
43:01
at least at this level or certified chef de cuisine.
43:06
And they've, they've proven themselves at that level, you
43:08
know, and whether it's leadership, whether it's skill,
43:10
technique in the kitchen, you know, all those kind of things.
43:14
So, so that's, it's a validation of, of your abilities.
43:18
But but then it's also a personal journey, you know,
43:20
that, that you, you do for yourself.
43:23
And, and I think there's, there's a lot of good positive
43:26
things that come out of that. And it's not just some rubber
43:30
stamp thing that that people put on.
43:31
You have to take a written test. You have to have certain classes
43:36
depending on the level that you're doing.
43:37
And then you have to do a practical exam where you go in
43:39
the kitchen and you cook and you're observed by proctors.
43:43
And so there, there's going to be a certain level of experience
43:45
that you need to have before you're eligible for certain
43:47
certification levels. That that's correct, right.
43:49
So at least that it validates that.
43:51
And then like you said, there's there's going to be some sort of
43:56
classroom exam and and written exam, I'm assuming.
43:59
Yeah. So I'm, I'm assuming it's and
44:01
I've never taken one of these certifications, but I'm assuming
44:05
it's probably like technique questions, vocabulary, food
44:08
costing, things like that. Yeah, there's, there's a lot,
44:11
yeah, management, human resources, especially depending
44:14
on the level that you're going. For did you pass the human
44:17
resources once? I did, did you?
44:20
Thanks. Thanks to you, I passed all the
44:26
experience you gave. But yeah, there's, there's a lot
44:31
and, and the, the, the written exam is not an easy exam.
44:34
I mean, it's they, they've got a lot of questions.
44:36
You know, you gotta do a, a multiply out a recipe.
44:39
You've got a, you know, calculate food cost.
44:41
You've got a, like I say, some of this human resource stuff.
44:45
There's some legal questions in there.
44:47
There's some, you know, there's, there's a lot of.
44:49
Different things, yeah. Yeah, yeah, a lot of that stuff.
44:55
And then you get into the into the kitchen.
44:58
In the kitchen, the practical exam, again, depending on what
45:00
level you're at, practical exam is looking for you to, to do
45:06
proficiently certain techniques. They want to see how well you
45:11
can do those, those techniques, you know, butchering a, a, a
45:16
chicken, a round fish, a lobster, and then creating these
45:22
plates and artichoke. Artichoke, Yeah.
45:25
And you know, I always tell people when they're doing the
45:31
exam, you know, you can bring in stocks because it's a limited
45:35
time. They want to see the butchery of
45:38
that product. They assume, you know, how to
45:40
make a stock so you can bring that stock in.
45:42
So as, as a person, let's say butcher's a chicken and they've
45:46
got those bones from that chicken.
45:47
A lot of times they think, OK, well, I'm going to fortify my
45:49
stock and I'm going to put it in there and I'm going to, you get
45:52
no points for that. They don't ask you to fortify a
45:54
stock. So, so wrap those bones up, put
45:57
them in the refrigerator, label them for, for stock for later,
46:00
and then put it away. Focus on the competencies that
46:04
they want to see. Is this for time as well I'm
46:06
assuming? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:07
Because the the time that you spend on fortifying that stock.
46:12
No extra credit. No, nothing.
46:15
The payoff is 0. I have a question.
46:17
So obviously there's multiple ways to do a thing.
46:21
Yeah. When you're going for
46:23
certification, is it a specific way that they have to
46:26
demonstrate this or I'm just kind of making this up?
46:29
There's this page that I follow on Instagram.
46:31
It's an artichoke page. And have you seen this?
46:34
The guy just stands there, like with a sharp knife and just
46:36
turns the artichoke, like in a second.
46:37
Yeah. And just throws in a bucket and
46:41
I look at that, it's like he's good.
46:42
Like I look at this like he's good.
46:43
But then a lot of chefs on there like, well, he's taking off the
46:46
he's taking off the stem and he should he's throwing too much.
46:48
He's like, he's good. Like you don't know what he
46:50
needs it for. He's good.
46:52
He knows what he's doing. I'm sure he knows that he's
46:54
throwing that away. And if he needed it for that,
46:55
he'd probably save it. But if someone's going into a
46:59
competition, I'm sorry, a certification test and they just
47:02
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I know how to do an artichoke,
47:03
but are you looking at that? But that's not how we want it.
47:06
That's not that's not where you're.
47:07
Supposed to it, it it does ask for the artichoke to be cleaned
47:11
and prepared a certain way. So, you know, you're going to
47:15
have to have that stem on there. You're going to have to, you
47:17
know, this out of the other. So yeah, there's from that
47:20
standpoint, but but how that person gets to the end result,
47:24
as long as it's a good technique.
47:28
I remember we were in a competition and, and somebody
47:32
was butchering a salmon and I heard the judges, I was
47:36
competing at the time and I heard the judges talking about
47:39
the knife that the person was using to clean the salmon.
47:42
And it's not, that's not the proper knife to use to clean the
47:44
salmon. The hell, you need to use this
47:46
knife, not that knife. And, you know, at the end of the
47:48
day, how's the salmon cleaned is, you know, that's what we're
47:52
judging is the technique and the, the, you know, 'cause you
47:55
know, how would you fabricate a chicken?
47:58
You'd take a boning knife out and you'd, you'd break down a
48:00
chicken. Well, you know, I've seen people
48:03
do it with a Chinese cleaver. Yeah, very efficiently.
48:05
Very efficiently, in fact. Faster.
48:09
So you know what's the right knife?
48:11
So I have something that I don't know if you told me this, but
48:14
it's definitely something that I say now, it's like the most
48:18
efficient path to get to the most delicious result, right?
48:21
The shortest path to get there, right?
48:23
So if that means that, and again, this is this is how I
48:26
would train my chefs in the restaurant.
48:28
If that means that you use this or that means that you use that,
48:31
is it most delicious and most efficient for the ideal outcome.
48:34
So don't waste your time doing something that because it's
48:36
proper, but it doesn't yield the most efficient result.
48:40
But also at the same time, I'm not pass.
48:43
It's not a pass or fail test. It's to the guest enjoy.
48:45
And we need to be ready for service.
48:47
So there's some some some nuance there.
48:50
Yeah, there's, you know, there's techniques, there's classical
48:52
techniques, there's all this kind of stuff, which is great.
48:55
And, and I'm a firm believer in teaching those because it
48:57
teaches people the basics, you know, and I, I kind of equate
49:00
that to basketball players. You can have the greatest slam
49:05
dunk in the world, but if, if you can't make a free throw,
49:09
you're you're no good to the team.
49:11
You know, if every time you get to the free throw line and
49:13
you're so focus on the basics and then you can practice on
49:16
those, you know, those kind of fun.
49:18
Yeah. And, and like in boxing, the big
49:20
basics win fights. A good jab, a good jab is going
49:22
to win, right? Yeah.
49:23
It's not all the flash. And so you take that idea.
49:28
And for people that don't know, when I, when I started doing
49:33
cooking tests and, you know, we began this together, when we'd
49:35
hire chefs, we'd give them basically the certified
49:39
executive chef exam. Here's a whole chicken, here's a
49:41
whole lobster. Artichoke fish make something.
49:45
And it was amazing to me, and I've talked about this a lot at
49:48
length, but we haven't talked about it in some time.
49:51
It's amazing to me having so many chefs, how many crumble
49:55
when they get that test, it's and they're applying for
49:57
executive chef level. Like if I'm a chef hiring other
50:00
executive chefs, I've seen them crumble.
50:01
It's like the worst is like they hand their artichoke.
50:04
The artichoke is like the Achilles heel, is what I've.
50:05
Used for my chefs. That seems to be the one that's
50:08
like, oh, give it to my colony. Or, you know, you got to, you
50:11
got to do that one. Yourself.
50:12
Yeah. It's your exam, not theirs.
50:13
Yeah, yeah. But but the whole chicken, and
50:16
it's something that that we discussed, it's something that I
50:20
picked up from you, is that when you get the chicken, it's like,
50:23
well, are you just going to take the breast off or are you going
50:25
to make stock? Are you going to make a farce?
50:27
Are you going to make a roulade? Like what are you going to do
50:29
with the skin? Are you are you going to trust
50:31
it? Like demonstrate so much just
50:34
with the chicken. There's hundreds of techniques
50:37
that you could demonstrate, but a lot of people just think saute
50:40
the breast. Yeah.
50:41
And you know, to take that a step further, you give them the
50:43
chicken, they're going to make a sauteed chicken breast,
50:46
whatever, even pound it out, whatever they're going to do
50:48
with it. They take the, the breasts off
50:50
the chicken and then they put the rest of that carcass with
50:52
the legs and the thighs and the, the wings and they put it in a
50:55
pan and put it back in the refrigerator.
50:57
No, if you're going to use the breast, that's fine.
51:01
But butcher the chicken because next person that goes over to,
51:05
to use the rest of that chicken, they're going to have to start
51:08
the butchery process also. So do the do the butchering
51:11
process in one, take what you need and leave the rest for
51:15
later utilization. So for people that, so you have
51:18
the certified executive chef, but above that is the certified
51:21
master chef and that is probably a little bit harder to pass.
51:26
So what, what does the typical CMC exam look like 'cause I know
51:29
it's changed recently, right? Is it only done?
51:31
Is it part? Is it still done at the CIA?
51:34
You know, it's, I think so. I think the, the majority of
51:38
them are done at Schoolcraft College these days up in
51:40
Livonia, MI. And you know, they've revamped
51:44
it. And I'm, I'm not that familiar
51:46
with all the changes. I know they've shortened it.
51:48
It was a 10 day exam. I think it went down to, to 8
51:53
days and it might be down to six or something like that.
51:56
But you know, it's, it's really intensive and they, they touch
52:01
on all the things they touch on obviously garmische work, they
52:04
touch on some baking work, they touch on mystery basket, they
52:09
touch on continental cuisine. They assigned you a dish from a
52:13
country that you may not know. You know what, everybody gets a
52:16
different country. There's and it's a high
52:20
pressure, you know, and it should be, I think it's, it's a
52:25
low success rate. There's a lot of people that are
52:28
kind of, you know, not, not too crazy about that.
52:31
I'd like to see the success rate maybe come up a little bit, but
52:34
I think it should be a hard test.
52:36
It's certified master chef. You know, it's it's, it should
52:40
be a hard test and to get to that level.
52:44
And how How many are? Are there like 60?
52:47
Or something, yeah, 68 to 70 something, yeah.
52:51
And there's some legends in there like Ferdinand Mets, Fritz
52:54
Sauna Schmidt. If you know, it's funny, here's
52:56
a funny story. So Fritz, we, we did a dinner.
53:01
No, we didn't do a dinner. We did an event in Dallas and
53:06
certified master chefs at Leonard Fritz, Sauna Schmidt,
53:12
Ferdinand Mets were there and it was a lot of other chefs.
53:14
I was there. And, you know, it was one of
53:17
those things that was like great to, to sit at the table with
53:19
them and, and, and spend some time with Fritz.
53:22
And I know you know him and we bumped into him at events
53:25
together. Sure.
53:26
And it's funny because years, years, years, years later, he
53:30
commented on one of my chef's PSA posts like, who is this
53:34
doing this? Who is this chef posting all
53:40
this? And I, and I responded to him as
53:41
a chef. You know, Andre Inter, we met
53:43
years ago and I, I, I, I named the places that we met.
53:46
You know, we cooked together in Dallas here at blah, blah, blah.
53:48
And he's like, OK, good job, chef.
53:51
OK, I just want to say good job. He was like, who is this person?
53:55
Maybe to be the chef's PSA That's.
53:59
Too funny. That's too funny.
54:02
But I got a lot of respect for those guys.
54:04
So you went to the CIA, by the way, I was just there.
54:05
I did. I just came back from the CII.
54:07
Teach some leadership stuff for the hospitality Academy, the one
54:10
in SAN. Antonio in San Antonio, yeah, I
54:11
went to Hyde Park and actually when I went, that was the only
54:14
one, Hyde Park. Beautiful.
54:16
By the way, have you? When was the last time you went?
54:17
You know, I went up there about 3 years ago.
54:20
We went up there with the Colavito folks.
54:22
Their their dining room for the. Oh, beautiful.
54:24
It's. Yeah, insane.
54:26
It's it's insane. I see.
54:27
I I like, I kind of regret now not going.
54:30
Yeah. I mean, it was beautiful.
54:31
It was, yeah. It was a great, it was a great
54:35
time in my life from a career standpoint.
54:38
It, it really, you know, it's, you know, you, you kind of get
54:42
up there and all of a sudden all the, the rains are, are loose
54:46
and you can explore this and try that and so much knowledge up
54:51
there. The, the, the library.
54:53
I I went 79 to 81, graduated in February of 81.
54:57
But the interesting thing about culinary schools is culinary
55:01
programs are, it's a very interesting world right now.
55:04
I'm curious to see where it's going to go.
55:05
I bumped into the new director of the CIA when I was in Chicago
55:10
recently. We had we had a good
55:11
conversation. Maybe I'll get him on the show.
55:15
He was talking about how the industry is different now.
55:18
It's not, it's not the industry that you and I got into now.
55:21
There's so many different career paths for a chef.
55:23
You know, you can go into content creation, whatever the
55:26
case may be. But what's, what's really
55:29
interesting is the mentorship aspect and culinary schools are
55:34
now incorporating AI. There's more online training.
55:36
You know, the ability to learn is much quicker than it was when
55:40
we were coming up. It was just, you know, the book,
55:41
the library or the classroom or work, right.
55:45
And I know you do some work with some high schools and they, they
55:48
have incredible. I went to a culinary school in,
55:51
there's one here in Austin that I went to and I did another one
55:53
in Dallas where I went and I, I did a lecture.
55:56
But the, the school's kitchens are nicer than some of the nicer
56:02
than the culinary school I went to.
56:03
They're incredible and the programs are really incredible.
56:06
Yeah, what what they have now, it's, it's so refreshing because
56:10
you look at these culinary programs, when I was coming up,
56:13
we had home EC. That was it.
56:16
Now they have these career centers and you know, there's a
56:19
a great one in, in, in Mansfield.
56:22
There's one great program up here in Georgetown.
56:26
Emily's the instructor up there, and I've never been to her
56:30
facility. Yeah, I've never been to her
56:32
facility. But I've seen what she does with
56:35
those students and brings them to competitions.
56:37
I'm I'm heavily involved in the Pro Start competition, which is
56:40
a high school competition for high school teams.
56:44
You know, I've done some FCCLA stuff.
56:48
You know, there's a lot of programs out there.
56:52
And as long as we're shouting out Chef David Roberson in
56:56
Mansfield, his program is a tremendous program.
56:59
They're, they're mentoring these, these young culinarians
57:02
to, to really, you know, excel because, you know, we, we get
57:07
back to that, that first thing about competition, wanting to
57:10
know if you start in high school, you've already gotten
57:13
past that, that fear factor of, of the, the hardest competition
57:17
for a, a chef that's been in the industry is that first one,
57:21
because they're afraid to fail. They think if they don't get a
57:23
gold medal, then it's going to question their cooking
57:25
abilities. And it's not.
57:26
There's certified master chefs that, that compete and things
57:29
happen. You know, they don't, they don't
57:31
gold medal all the time and they don't sometimes, you know,
57:34
whatever. But what they're doing in these,
57:36
these culinary programs in these high schools is amazing.
57:40
And, and you see the skill level of these students.
57:42
I judge that. I judge, judge college stuff.
57:47
And sometimes I'm doing the high school competition and then I I
57:50
go to the NACOS competition and I look at the professionals
57:53
there and stuff from the high schools a step above.
57:56
But I think it's because they have mentors.
57:58
Yeah, really, really honed in. And I think that's important
58:01
because mentorship, I mean, we've, we've had this
58:03
conversation many times. Like if you're not giving back
58:06
to the next generation, what are you doing?
58:08
Yeah, Yeah, it's the most important job.
58:09
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
58:11
Exactly. OK, as we start wrapping up the
58:14
show, let's talk about the Mount Rushmore of chefs.
58:17
OK, if you had your Mount Rushmore personal to you, who
58:22
are the 4/4 chefs that you can't say me?
58:26
Oh well. So besides me he gets stuck you.
58:31
Can't say me. So you know, I've heard you ask
58:36
this question, you know, when on your on your podcast and you
58:39
know, there's some greats out there.
58:41
You know, people mentioned Thomas Keller, they, they
58:43
mentioned Danielle Belude, they, they mentioned, you know, Paul
58:46
Bakus and Ilan Dukas and, and I mean all those, those guys are
58:49
great. But you know, I, I started kind
58:52
of thinking about, first of all, Mount Rushmore itself.
58:55
Why are those 4 presidents on Mount Rushmore?
58:58
I don't know. And I, I don't want to get into
58:59
that. But you know, for me, whoever
59:02
did Mount Rushmore, I think it, it would be who, who had an
59:06
impact in my career. You know, I think Ferdinand Mets
59:09
for sure, Fritz Sonnen Schmidt for sure.
59:14
My my first mentor, chef Artie Dupuis.
59:19
Big part of your book. Yeah, got me, got me started
59:22
into competitions. And, you know, I worked for him
59:25
for a very short period of time, relatively speaking.
59:28
Well, just a short period of time.
59:31
But the impact that he had on me as as a a culinarian, A
59:35
competitor, a father, a human being, you know, just.
59:38
This is New Orleans. No, this was up in New Jersey
59:41
before I went to school. Yeah, and then the 4th 1.
59:45
I can't use you, huh? Jeez, I yeah, I'm.
59:48
Really stuck. Yeah, well.
59:53
But I don't know who it would be, but you know, somebody
59:56
that's that's really had a had a big impact on on me, you know,
1:00:01
Chef Andrea Puzzo in New Orleans, that when I graduated
1:00:06
culinary and I went down there and worked for him.
1:00:08
I worked for him for four years and.
1:00:13
You know, that was a influential time in my my career.
1:00:18
Yeah, yeah. And for people that don't know,
1:00:21
like I love busting your chops. People that don't know I love
1:00:26
busting your chops. But thank you so much for
1:00:28
everything that you. Did for my career.
1:00:30
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you.
1:00:32
I cannot be the chef I am without having the mentorship
1:00:36
from you and working under you and instilling so much
1:00:38
professionalism and not letting me win even when I thought I
1:00:42
should have won. But it was there were some great
1:00:44
valuable lessons and a lot of what I teach now in Chef's PSA,
1:00:48
what people don't realize, you probably pick it up.
1:00:49
It's like I think I said that to Andre.
1:00:51
He's regarding my words, but it's true.
1:00:54
It's true. So I want to make sure that you
1:00:56
know that that I acknowledge that here while you're while
1:00:58
you're on the show, where can people, first of all, where can
1:01:02
people find you and where can people get your book?
1:01:04
Well, before you get off onto that, I, I, I want to say, and I
1:01:07
say it in the book, you know, I, I think you give me a lot of
1:01:11
credit for things that I taught you, but, but I think you taught
1:01:14
me every bit as much, if not more just working with you and
1:01:18
watching you. And, you know, the goal for a
1:01:21
chef or for anybody, a mentor, is to see the mentee do better
1:01:25
than they have. And, and, and that, you know,
1:01:28
that that's been a great experience watching you do that.
1:01:31
But I can be found on Chef PD Mitchell on Instagram and the
1:01:38
book is available on Amazon and it's also available as an e-book
1:01:44
on on Amazon. Awesome.
1:01:47
Well, thank you chef. This was fun, and this was tame.
1:01:52
Yeah, it's because I well. I have a cut in my mouth.
1:01:55
Well, how'd that happen? I was.
1:01:57
I was licking stuff. I shouldn't have been licking
1:01:59
you. Know you you told the audience
1:02:02
that you love busting my chops and and when we sat down Andre
1:02:05
told me he says you know you got to push farther down the so the
1:02:08
camera can get a good good and the farther I got down there's a
1:02:11
leak in this in this and it's dripping on my shoulder the
1:02:15
entire time I. Won't edit that out.
1:02:22
Thanks for being Doc. Thank you.
1:02:25
Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode.
1:02:26
If you want to support the show, if you're watching on YouTube,
1:02:28
hit the like and subscribe button.
1:02:29
If you're listening on Apple or Spotify or anywhere else, make
1:02:32
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1:02:35
I'm a five star man. If you want to get chef brains,
1:02:38
I have lots of books available. English, Spanish, Italian, some
1:02:42
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1:02:44
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1:02:46
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1:02:53
We'll see you next week at the Porno Music, no?
1:02:56
Small Andre in the kitchen mixing, dropping chef knowledge,
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no fiction, stirring up the BT enough the session, listen close
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