Latest / The Electrical Show / Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan discuss fake qualifications & gold cards

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Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan discuss fake qualifications & gold cards · The Electrical Show

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  The Electrical Show with Thomas Najie sponsored by BOSH Professional Powerful power Tools for measuring
• 0:07
  tools and experts accessories. Welcome to the Electrical Show with none other than BOSH
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  Professional. Here on Fix Radio, on Thomas Najie and with me as always
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  is Paul Meana. Now during the course of this show, if I start
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  coughing sporadically, it is because I have I'm at the end of a cold
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  summer cold. I think our producer Mark has one. I believe. Have
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  you just got over a cold? No, just bit off? Okay,
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  yeah, as I apologize for dat sounders as chipper, as I normally do.
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  Now on today's show, we're going to be talking about fake qualifications now,
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  in particularly access to gold cards, and how easy it is to basically
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  just buy your way into a qualification, scam your way into a qualification in
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  our industry in twenty twenty three. Now you see it all the time,
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  Paul myself and we've all seen it. Where you go online, Instagram,
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  wherever, and you know, do you need to get on site super fast?
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  Did you need an Envy Q contact the seller and they basically you I've
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  never done this, but essentially you just contact them, you pay them,
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  I don't know five hundred thousand quid, seven hundred quid. They paid seven
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  hundred quid and a couple of days later you get a shiny gold card in
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  the post. Or actually I don't I don't even know how they send it.
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  I literally don't know this or I've been I've been doing some investigatory journalism
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  on this very subject, which has angered me quite a bit. Is what
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  we're going to talk about today. Fixed Radio time to crack on. You're
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  listening to the Electrical Show with Bosh Professional. I'm Thomas Najie and in the
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  hot seat is Paul Meanam once again, Now, Paul, are you looking
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  to in you your gold card? I don't know. You don't want to
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  set any exams and you just want your card within a week I made cost
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  you seven hundred and fifty quidum. No, if you've literally just tuned in,
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  we're just talking about gold cards and how easily you can basically go onto
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  Instagram and it pierce. It's any card. It's not just gold card,
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  there's any card, CSCs, operative, plant, any any type of card
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  you need to get onto two site is now allegedly use that term incredibly easy
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  to obtain. Yeah, because I I had to scratch the curiosity itch and
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  I was looking at one of these posts on Instagram and it was literally,
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  if you if you want to be qualification and steel fixing or yeah, as
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  a grounds the laborer, anything you literally it's there. Yeah, there's this,
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  this, this, It's become twofold things. So for anyone who is
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  on social media, the facebooks or the instagrams, um they started off with
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  access to CSCs cards. Then it became you want a gold GRB card,
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  and now it's become what qualification do you need? iPath, dumper driver,
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  any NVQ level three, four, five, seven, you want really serious?
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  It's deadly serious and it will kill someone. It's that stupid. There
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  is so little control. It's become this mad plague all of a sudden,
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  and it's on social media. I'm fortunate I don't use Facebook heavily, but
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  I'm an admin on most of the electrical groups, and every single time I
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  log in, we're having to delete every single day, every single day,
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  I did two this morning posts from fake profiles saying do you want fake this
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  fake that. I even did a post on LinkedIn the other day where I
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  had about ten screenshots that we gathered literally within foyer hours. It's a plague.
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  It's really bad because it undermines the hard work that people have to put
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  into the same company that are just like starting up lots of profiles or is
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  it like lots of different people. I don't know. I'm not a forensic
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  it guy, so I wouldn't have a clue out of it. Just leads
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  me to ask question like who's doing this? Who is it that's actually doing
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  this? People who don't have a good grasp on the English language based on
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  some of their posts, But how are they cheating the system? Is this
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  like just some card that they print at home and they send it to you,
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  and actually the qualifications aren't registered with However, I thought I would take
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  the bait when they put the offer out, and I actually, what's the
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  person involved? Who may be listening? So I haven't responded for obvious reasons,
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  And it was quite obvious that they said that. I said, look,
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  I need a new Gold card. Can you sort it out? This
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  is who I am? And they said, yet, no problem, seven
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  hundred pound will get you registered now. In the minute I had that,
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  I stopped there and I screenshot it or and sent it to the director of
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  the JIB and said, you need to investigate this heavily. And in fairness
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  to the JIB, they have reacted. They have put out statements, they've
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  re advertised their card checking system. The c TB have also done it.
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  Net have also done an AM two validation checker as well online. So there
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  are people doing stuff. Whether it's enough we're seeing on the fence, well,
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  no, there's a bigger journey because if this isn't new years ago,
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  as I said to you in a previous show, you could go to a
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  cabin somewhere and get a fake card printed for a few hundred quid. This
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  sort of stuff I knew about it years ago, and it was all resigned
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  to the dark web, and I just I went, I went to meet
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  somebody from the industry and they gave me some certificates. Went yep, that
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  looks fine. He went, No, they're all fakes. How can you
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  tell? When he went through how you could tell? So this is somehow
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  migrated from that just to brazen fake profiles. And what's that message in And
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  the trouble is the people who are desperate for it, Well, we'll do
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  it. We'll do it even if it's a con because let's be perfect,
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  Frankie. I've not been foolish enough to pay seven at one. I'm too
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  tight seven hundred quid of my own money to get a fake card. I
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  had a gold card. I've just not bothered to renew it because in my
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  role, I don't really know. I'm super tempted, but I don't want
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  it. The problem is I don't want to give some scanner seven fifty.
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  But I'm super tempted to see the process in prison, but not seven hundred
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  quid. Yeah, no, I can't. I can't. I can't fall
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  out. But what's the consequences, Like some Donny goes and pays seven hundred
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  and fifty quid and gets a card. I mean, it's like, the
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  problem is I think it's something goes wrong. That's where it will unravel.
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  I guess, isn't it. Yeah, someone will get hurt. Someone will
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  get hurt. I'm not naming any names or places, but I I've seen
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  instance where diggers more mini diggers have fallen off of railway platforms and it turned
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  out when they investigated it, the guy didn't have any valley qualifications. I
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  won't name any names at all there, but accidents instance still happen regularly,
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  and it always comes down to that lack of qualification, inability to communicate correctly.
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  These cards will cover a accident or death waiting to happen, and that's
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  really scary. The Electrical Show on Fixed Radio. I'm Thomas Nagie with Paul
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  Mean And on the Electrical Show. And if you've just tuned in, don't
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  worry. We're just getting started. We're talking about fake qualification. So you
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  can basically go anyone on social media now, Facebook, Instagram, wherever,
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  and there will be opposed somebody there saying give me seven hundred and fifty smackers,
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  you'll get yourself a gold card or indeed whatever it is, a dumper
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  driver, you know, steel, fixed up whatever, anything. So how
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  big an issue, Paul, is this for the electrical sector, because this
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  is widespread in construct I actually originally thought this was just like gold cards,
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  but this is actually the whole of the construction industry. Don't think the industry
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  will ever want to find out to an extent. They'll want to close whatever
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  doors they can, and they'll have to show that steps are being taken but
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  as I said to previously, the electrical industry doesn't officially have a direct oversight,
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  you know, unless you're working in high rise residential buildings and you know
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  you're facing the HSC or something like that. But it's it's quite scary from
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  what my experiences, but my first experience with the whole fake qualification other than
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  being offered it. And when you're young, you don't really think much.
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  You're doing your apprentice. You know you're going the right way, but you
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  know this stuff exists somewhere, you don't think it's a huge thing. I've
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  met electricians when I was an apprentice and I was on the tool still where
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  they would literally turn around and I'd say, right, what we're doing.
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  He was a senior electrician. They go, don't I mate, it's all
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  about the black in it? And I'm like, not really, but okay,
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  And I do you think that this is a problem that no industry sector
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  will want to publish because it would just be deemed negative news. Yeah,
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  And we're in a world now where you can't speak negatively even though the only
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  way you fix a problem is by addressing it directly. And I genuinely think
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  that we'll never find out until there's a major instant that's publicly spoken of where
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  the root causes. That person had a card but it was fake. Yeah.
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  One of my first real experiences, as have you actually come across this?
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  Yeah, yeah, so I have. So about six years ago I
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  was engaging in some actual checks because when you were younger, you'd walk on
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  site, line up to the agent of the site manager. You know,
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  all your qualifications there, all your tickets. He'd scan them or photocopy or
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  check them. And you know, I got given some qualifications to check and
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  I put them for a checking procedure. And then I got a phone call
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  going this sitting guild is fake. I was like, well, it's fake
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  and that person was a qualified supervisor for an industry body Wow, And it
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  was just like, Okay, this person has been assessed yearly. But it
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  turns out his baseline qualification was take. He got challenged on it and he
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  admitted it was about fourteen years ago. We had an issue there, but
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  it was more of an insurance legality. There was a moral there was an
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  ethical questionnaire. He knew his staff, but he'd blagged it fourteen years ago
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  and he had been caught out so when the industry says, yes, we
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  check respectfully, and in my opinion, I prove it. Tell us transparently
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  how you check, Because if you've got people going, yeah, we can
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  get you on the red start, is there a backdoor talk to us.
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  Be open about this so that people embrace what you're trying to do. And
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  more importantly, if you're of a certain age in a trade and you try
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  and go and get replacements to sitting guilds. I remember about fifteen years ago
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  I rang up sitting guilds to inquire on a friend's behalf and they'd had a
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  small fire in one of their offices and he'd lost loads of their records.
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  Yeah, I mean mine were I don't know. I got to replace paper
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  copy replacements of mine, and that was all right, But that was like,
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  I don't know, I didn't mine fifteen eighteen years ago somewhere. That
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  was okay. Look at the average age to tradesmen. It'd be really interesting
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  if certain tradesmen go and see if they can get copies of the original qualificy,
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  I mean minds. The minute I got them, I laminated them because
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  I was told, act your livelihood, you look after them. But I
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  know over the years some people lose them, but how to storm mind.
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  Yeah, yeah, I've got replacements now and I've laminated them. But there
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  you go. Yeah, Fixed Radio. This is the Electrical Show. I'm
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  Thomas Nagie with a cold and in the hot seat is Paul Menham. We
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  have been talking about fake qualifications that are rife in this industry and it is
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  getting worse now. Paul, what in the short term with these these forged
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  cards that you can get, in your opinion, what would you like to
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  see done? Because there are bodies now that are starting to police this online
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  and more and more people are starting to wake up and report this one.
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  It's they but really simple one I would like and I've got a few people
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  in my head saying the same thing. I would like the industry to be
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  licensed. I would like one industry body or to set up a independent,
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  non for profit arm and effectively licensed electricians and everybody who works in the industry
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  to go along one that. So there is there is a lot of public
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  consultation to go along with it, but it's government backed. So you're licensed
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  to work or you're not licensed. If you're not licensed, you don't work.
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  Simple as that. But if you if you are time served, you're
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  not, then you don't have the bank broke to go and do all these
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  envques and everything else to prove your competency. Because there's ponds about qualifications only
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  makes up one part. Remember we spoke about skat, skills, knowledge ability,
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  training, education, It only makes up one part of competency. We
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  shouldn't bankrupt people from being able to attain stuff, and that's exactly what it
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  appears. I mean my JILB card now I need to have an MVQ if
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  I want to renew it. I'm not renewing it as that I don't need
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  it for what I need to do. It doesn't make me a bad electrician.
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  It makes me a rusty one probably, but it doesn't make me a
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  bad one. But what organizations are actually looking into this? Other particular ones
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  because I know just before the show started we were talking about it. JIB
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  Joint Industry Board, they are doing their very best to just go on their
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  website and you'll see articles and updates on what they're doing. CIB Constructions Training
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  Board they are putting statements out about fake qualifications and also NET who look after
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  apprentices and a very good organization. They are doing their best to allow people
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  to verify AM twos, which is your final skills test. But just if
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  you don't mind, can I can I just wind it out to you.
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  So I've got I've got on my phone SERTs from from these these pages and
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  this one came off Instagram and it's MVQ Qualifications and you can buy any color
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  card white, green, blue, gold, straight up, Instagram, black,
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  etc. Envy Q Level two in Traveling Occupations IE Bricklayer Diploma in still
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  Fixing Form Work Form Work Supervisor, Construction Operations and Civil Engineering, US Occupational
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  Work Supervision, WOULD occupations, concrete occupations, construction operations, plant operate A
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  dumper driver, plant operators three six machine driver, controlling, lifto operations,
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  clauding occupations, roofing, steel erector, electric electrical installation, interior systems,
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  dry liners, plasters, decorative finishes, all of them are available to be
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  bought. Just inbox them for more information. And you're like, okay,
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  no, and that's insane. Let's say someone buys that. Yep, this
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  is the bit I don't understand they get. Let's say let's say you want
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  to get a gold card, so by all accounts that has then been registered
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  with that body. Because I'm going with this. Unfortunately, you become the
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  gatekeeper. So let's say you Tom. Let's use you as an example.
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  So you're doing some electrical work and you require some civils work to be done.
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  You require some plastering and everything else. So you go and get some
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  trades and you say, oh you qualified. Do you have all your tickets?
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  Great? You now become the gatekeeper because it's down to you if you're
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  employing them to ensure that their qualifications are valid and real. Now, place
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  like GLB, they have an online system. You can just get up your
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  laptop, open it up and check it. Normally, you'd look at a
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  card and if it looks iffy, then you'll take a second look and go,
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  well, that doesn't look printed right, or that looks a bit blurred.
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  Then you know your spider sense thing. A lot of people don't even
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  know what these cards look like. A lot of people managing installations and trades
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  or of a generation whereas they will literally go, oh, mate, you've
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  got your guilds well. And then someone will go, oh, I've got
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  an el NVQ, and you'll go, what was an el oh? It's
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  another rewarding body and you sit there and you go there's a bigger problem in
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  the people overseeing the industry. I'm not talking about mega construction, small stuff.
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  All they know is sitting guilds, trade qualification, sitting guilds, skills
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  tests, maybe a card if you're lucky. I've seen loads of people work
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  on loads of sites where you go, if you want to see my cards,
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  you want to see this waffle. It's not fair and all the people
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  are told go for gold and work hard to attain it because it is a
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  good standard to get to and it's a bit of personal pride for any tradesmen
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  to get their qualifications, to get their cards. But move on, and
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  that's the bit. We're not good as an industry telling people to move on.
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  Let's wrap this up after some more music here on Fixed Radio, the
• 15:20
  Builder Station, the Electrical Show on Fixed Radio. That's it for today's Electrical
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  Show where we have been discussing the fake qualifications that have been going around on
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  social media. Now, any advice pull for those tempted by those fake cards,
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  because I do kind of get it. If people are in a tight
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  spot and they want to get a card quick I mean, it's they it's
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  a very short straw to pull, but it seems very tempting. What is
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  your advice, don't do it? Well, don't do it. Beware of
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  the dangers in doing it, because you may blag it one day and then
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  down the line you may kill someone, or you may get found out and
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  thrown off site and your reputation will be mud. My biggest concern with this
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  is there are people out there who have had grandfather rights removed and they may
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  walk straight into the arms of these comment because there's no guarantee you're going to
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  get anything. Yeah, you pay your money, do you get anything.
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  I don't even want to try and pay my money the amount of money they
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  want for this to want to shive you, So be careful. You're playing
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  a lottery. It's very much a lottery, whether you get caught or not.
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  So yeah, definitely, it's not worth it, as tempting as it
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  looks for some people. Don't do it. It's just not worth it.
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  That's it for today's show. Thank you Paul once again for coming on,
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  and you can hear the show again from ten o'clock tonight right here on Fixed
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  Radio with more great music. Subscribe to the podcast as well. It's it's
• 16:38
  always worth a download as we sometimes put some exclusive bits and pieces in the
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  podcast, so leave us a review as well because it does make a difference.
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