Latest / Rich Valdés: This is America! / Psychiatry, Painful Pasts, President's Son

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Psychiatry, Painful Pasts, President's Son · Rich Valdés: This is America!

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is America with Rich Valdez, powered by politiweek.com.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: And Rich Valdez is with us, former Christie administration official.
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  Speaker 3: You worked for Chris Christie, you've been in politics, a
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  Speaker 3: lot of public service stuff. Rich Valdez, columnist now with
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  Speaker 3: the Washington Times.
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  Speaker 2: This is America. Richie V, you're on the air with
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the nation. This is America with your host, Rich Valdez.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: What's up, America? I am Rich Valdez, Valdez with an
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: S at Rich Valdez on all of the social media. Welcome, welcome,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: welcome back. I've been off for a little bit, taking
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  Speaker 3: care of a few things, fine-tuning a couple of things.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: 877-VALDEZ1 That's 877-825-3371. Share your thoughts.
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  Speaker 3: We will air it during our Open Phone America segment,
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  Speaker 3: which will be coming up in a little bit. And
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  Speaker 3: President Trump, I want to give a big heartfelt word
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  Speaker 3: of thanks.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr.
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  Speaker 3: President, for graciously inviting me to the White House today,
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  Speaker 3: this afternoon for the Hispanic Heritage Reception. It's always an
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  Speaker 3: honor to be invited to the White House. especially now
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  Speaker 3: that el trompito de Naldes Magnus, the 45th and 47th
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  Speaker 3: president of these United States, el presidente, Donald J. Trump,
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  Speaker 3: is fighting back against the fake news media with the
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  Speaker 3: same energy my abuela used to use, swinging a wooden
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  Speaker 3: spoon with the arroz con gandules. Now, this invitation to me,
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  Speaker 3: it highlights how many Hispanics support and love this country.
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  Speaker 3: They support President Trump's agenda, and they really want to
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  Speaker 3: vote their values of faith, family, freedom, and hard work.
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  Speaker 2: Law and order.
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  Speaker 1: So again, thank you, Mr.
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  Speaker 3: President. I'm truly humbled and honored by your invitation. And,
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  Speaker 3: you know, after growing up in Brooklyn and moving to
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  Speaker 3: Hudson County, New Jersey, I spent my teenage years cutting
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  Speaker 3: hair in a couple of different neighborhood shops, mainly in
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  Speaker 3: my dad's apartment, and then I opened up my own shop.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: And I always listened to the older guys arguing about
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  Speaker 3: politics while the radio had some hip-hop on or some
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: salsa and the smell of a fresh cafecito con leche, right?
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: And that aroma mixed with that, I'm going to call
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: it barbershop cologne, right? But it was a mix of
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  Speaker 3: Clubman talc and that hair pomade called Vitalis.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's what it was called.
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  Speaker 3: But it's that classic barbershop smell, that scent that's unmistakable.
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  Speaker 3: And I would hear the OGs arguing about things. And today,
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  Speaker 3: a lot of what they argued about, what they talked
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  Speaker 3: about was very true, right? Today we saw that hard
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  Speaker 3: work and family truly does come first for so many
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  Speaker 3: Americans of Hispanic heritage. So many of our community is
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  Speaker 3: standing with President Trump today, and they have that same spirit,
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  Speaker 3: people who just want safe streets, strong borders, and the
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  Speaker 3: chance to raise their kids without the chaos, right? They
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  Speaker 3: want to raise a boy that's a boy that's going
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  Speaker 3: to marry a girl. To raise a girl that's going
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  Speaker 3: to marry a boy and stay a girl. This is
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  Speaker 3: what people expect. This is what normalcy once was, but
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  Speaker 3: we've got the left. and I'm going to call it
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  Speaker 3: the demonic left, pushing and encroaching upon everything that was
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  Speaker 3: once good and holy. Now, speaking of this chaos and
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  Speaker 3: second chances, the lawyer for Lindsay Clancy, this guy's making
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  Speaker 3: a Hail Mary play. He's bracing for a retrial and,
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  Speaker 3: in my view, trying to taint the juror pool by
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  Speaker 3: changing the narrative, right? And he's now positioning it as,
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  Speaker 3: was she guilty or not? instead of the real question,
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  Speaker 3: which was in the first trial, which was, do we
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  Speaker 3: give her life in prison or sentence her to a
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  Speaker 3: mental hospital? So we're going to discuss a little bit
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  Speaker 3: of the Lindsay Clancy later tonight. I know it hits
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  Speaker 3: a hot button for a lot of you. I had
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  Speaker 3: a conversation with Dr. Keith Abloh on my show, Rich Valdez,
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  Speaker 3: This Is America. He's a psychiatrist and leadership coach who
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  Speaker 3: famously treated heads of state, athletes, and most notably, Hunter Biden.
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  Speaker 3: And that was revealed by Hunter himself in his laptop
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  Speaker 3: from hell. So we'll dig into falling from grace, where
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  Speaker 3: Lindsey Clancy's treatment went wrong, what Dr. Keith Abloh thinks
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  Speaker 3: about the husband's comments on 60 Minutes. This is a
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  Speaker 3: deep dive. You don't want to miss it. And more
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  Speaker 3: on that, you know, in the subsequent segments. There's a
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  Speaker 3: lot cooking here tonight. There's a lot going on. We
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: got the latest from President Trump pushing back against the media,
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  Speaker 3: the spin machine, how they're trying to, make it look
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  Speaker 3: like he's trying to censor free speech, but he's just saying,
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  Speaker 3: I don't like these three outlets. So maybe we'll get
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  Speaker 3: into that as well, plus your calls. And, of course,
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  Speaker 3: the commitment that we have to just trying to bring
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  Speaker 3: the truth to so many families, working families, who still
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  Speaker 3: believe in the core values that we grew up.
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  Speaker 1: With, right?
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  Speaker 3: Faith, family, freedom, hard work, law and order. Like so
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  Speaker 3: many Hispanic families and all American families, I think, believe
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  Speaker 3: in those things. So keep it locked right here. There
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  Speaker 3: is so much more to come. Don't go anywhere. I'm
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  Speaker 3: just getting started. I'm Rich Valdez.
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  Speaker 2: This is America.
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  Speaker 3: All right, America. Welcome back. Rich Valdez, keeping you company tonight.
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  Speaker 3: And our guest, he's back. He's ready for more. Dr.
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  Speaker 3: Keith Abla. Welcome back, sir.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, Rich. Thanks for having me. Always good to come back.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you. It's always, it's always a good talk with you. And,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Dr. Keith Abla is one of America's most
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  Speaker 3: foremost psychiatrists. And he's a, become an executive leadership coach,
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  Speaker 3: and he's had a number of clients over the years,
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  Speaker 3: one of them very publicly being Hunter Biden. And I
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  Speaker 3: want to get to that maybe towards the latter part
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  Speaker 3: of our conversation. But some of the stuff that's been
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  Speaker 3: in the headlines that I think is top of mind
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  Speaker 3: for a lot of people, Dr. Keith, is this Lindsey
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  Speaker 3: Clancy stuff, right? A lot of people, I've heard all
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  Speaker 3: sorts of opinions, and I've got my own, but I
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  Speaker 3: want to understand it the best I can. And to
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  Speaker 3: the Paint the picture. I know a lot of people,
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  Speaker 3: myself included, tend to think people that kill people, and
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  Speaker 3: this is the layman's version, right? I think you've got
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  Speaker 3: to be crazy to kill somebody, right? You might be enraged.
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  Speaker 3: You might be angry. You might be jealous. You might
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  Speaker 3: be a lot of things, but it's a crazy premise
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  Speaker 3: to go and murder someone. I think her situation is
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  Speaker 3: no different. She was crazy. And I think the prosecutor
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  Speaker 3: made an effective case that that she planned these things
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  Speaker 3: and thought these things. Now, what's missing from my equation?
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  Speaker 3: Years of training as a psychiatrist, right? I don't have that.
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  Speaker 3: And I've spoken with other psychiatrists about this that say, look,
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  Speaker 3: this woman was trying to get aid. She was trying
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  Speaker 3: to have help. There was a lot of things going on.
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  Speaker 3: But ultimately, I think this issue was blown out of
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  Speaker 3: proportion in so many directions because she wasn't saying she
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  Speaker 3: didn't do it, but there were people saying she didn't
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  Speaker 3: do it. There were people saying her husband did it
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  Speaker 3: or he contributed to it, which may in fact be
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  Speaker 3: a thing. But he's speaking on 60 Minutes. He's saying
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  Speaker 3: he's asking the kids for help, the kids that are
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  Speaker 3: no longer there. He seems to me very detached from
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  Speaker 3: what I would imagine I would be feeling like. And
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to put myself in his shoes because
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to be in those shoes. But I
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  Speaker 3: feel like there's so many things here and somebody like
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  Speaker 3: yourself might be able to help us understand that. And
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  Speaker 3: you could pull on that thread from any one of
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  Speaker 3: those points. Dr.
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  Speaker 2: Keith Angle. Well, thanks. Thanks so much, Rich. Listen, so
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  Speaker 2: I listened and watched the 60 Minutes interview. So we
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  Speaker 2: could start there with Patrick Clancy. I found him credible.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think you can predict how any one person
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  Speaker 2: would respond to the situation that he finds himself in.
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  Speaker 2: It's so outsized. It's so out of the box that
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  Speaker 2: almost any reaction you'd say, well, maybe. Now, what has
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  Speaker 2: his reaction been? It's been fairly transparent. Like in that
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  Speaker 2: 60 Minutes interview, I was really listening with what psychiatrists
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  Speaker 2: call the third ear. trying to get a sense of, well,
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  Speaker 2: what am I feeling as I listen to this person?
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  Speaker 2: I had a sense of being profoundly sad myself. I
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  Speaker 2: think I got that from him. I think that his
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  Speaker 2: answers seemed authentic. There was no attempt to over-dramatize. That's
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  Speaker 2: what would give me more pause. Somebody who would say,
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  Speaker 2: There isn't a minute that goes by that I'm not
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  Speaker 2: plagued with intrusive memories. I can't have any relationship, et cetera,
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  Speaker 2: et cetera. This man says what seems quite true. These
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  Speaker 2: intrusive memories yielded to a form of treatment called EMDR,
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  Speaker 2: which is a unique form of psychiatric treatment where you
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  Speaker 2: move your eyes back and forth while recounting certain events
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  Speaker 2: that are traumatic for whatever reason. People say that works
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  Speaker 2: very well. He does too. He says that released him
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  Speaker 2: from the worst of the nightmares. Okay, that seems authentic.
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  Speaker 2: His rendition, his recollections about what it's like to live
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  Speaker 2: through this, they seem not overblown. They seem to be
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  Speaker 2: on the mark, that there isn't a day that goes
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  Speaker 2: by that he doesn't think of the kids anymore. There
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  Speaker 2: isn't probably an hour. And I think he said it's
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  Speaker 2: all day every day. I think that's how it works.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think you expect to get over these things.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think. he expects to forget these things
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  Speaker 2: I think he seems to be unique in a certain
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  Speaker 2: way in his ability to carry on but there are
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  Speaker 2: probably reasons for that whether it's deep in his life
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  Speaker 2: history or it's partly genetic we have no idea he's
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  Speaker 2: able to forge a new relationship with another woman and
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  Speaker 2: contemplate starting another family probably we could take something from
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  Speaker 2: that in the way of resiliency and say it might
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  Speaker 2: be something of a model to aspire to he's not
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  Speaker 2: saying he's forgetting he's saying he needed to move on
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  Speaker 2: he left the town in Massachusetts he emptied out the
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  Speaker 2: house he moved to New York he needed to be
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  Speaker 2: anonymous he's not afraid to say that He cried on
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  Speaker 2: the steps of a cathedral during the birthday of one
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  Speaker 2: of his sons, remembering his son. So I think on
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  Speaker 2: the Patrick side, I think the way he's reacting actually
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  Speaker 2: strikes me as fairly authentic because it's not overblown. The
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  Speaker 2: treatment that Lindsay received is... representative of our mental healthcare system.
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  Speaker 2: It's horrific. The mental healthcare system is shattered. Uh, you
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  Speaker 2: could go and pull charts from any number of hospitals,
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  Speaker 2: whether in Massachusetts or any other state and say, does
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  Speaker 2: this chart on this very ill individual, maybe a psychotic individuals,
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  Speaker 2: maybe even people who've threatened the lives of others. Do
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  Speaker 2: they have all the records from other hospitalizations? Your answer
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  Speaker 2: would be in a huge percentage of those charts. No,
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  Speaker 2: they have none of the records. It's amazing. If you
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  Speaker 2: then said, but surely they've called the clinicians. This is
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  Speaker 2: a serious case. This is a man who's believes that
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  Speaker 2: the FBI is following him and they might have to
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  Speaker 2: take action against the supposed agents. Surely they've talked to
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  Speaker 2: the other clinicians. No, you'll find that in, I would
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  Speaker 2: say in a majority of cases, No other clinician has
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  Speaker 2: been called. This isn't an inpatient hospitalization. By the way,
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  Speaker 2: in order to get into an inpatient hospitalization, you have
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  Speaker 2: to move heaven and earth. I have had the most
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  Speaker 2: bizarre and infuriating conversations with emergency rooms during my career
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  Speaker 2: when I was practicing psychiatry, where I would send people
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  Speaker 2: to the ER who said, I am going to kill myself.
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  Speaker 2: I can't take it anymore. Here's how I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: do it. And I'd call the police immediately. We'd convey
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  Speaker 2: them by ambulance to an ER and I'd get a
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  Speaker 2: call three hours later. We're releasing Joe Smith. You're releasing
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  Speaker 2: Joe Smith. He told me three hours ago he had
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  Speaker 2: a plan about exactly how he was going to end
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  Speaker 2: his life. He's been under incredible stress. He's on three meds.
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  Speaker 2: He tried once before in his life. Yeah, but he
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  Speaker 2: says he won't do it now. He's contracting for safety.
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  Speaker 2: So the insurance company won't pay. So we have to
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  Speaker 2: let him go. And I would have to go through
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  Speaker 2: the same Chapter and verse every time. Listen, don't worry
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  Speaker 2: about the insurance company. That's not your job. Your job
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  Speaker 2: is whether to admit them. Bean counters will deal later
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  Speaker 2: with how to get paid. But see, that's not the
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  Speaker 2: way clinicians think now. They think that a refusal to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: pay for care is tantamount to that person will not
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  Speaker 2: receive care. They've gotten from on high the judgment from
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  Speaker 2: the insurer saying, sorry, he's contracting for safety. He doesn't
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  Speaker 2: qualify for an inpatient stay. And I would say- That's.
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  Speaker 3: Probably true in not just mental health, but medical health
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  Speaker 3: and everything else. It is.
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  Speaker 2: It's trying to withhold resources. I understand, like I get
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  Speaker 2: that insurance companies and hospitals, they're businesses. If we wanted
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  Speaker 2: a not-for-profit system, we would have to go in that direction.
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  Speaker 2: That's not what we've developed. However, there need to be
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  Speaker 2: some checks and balances- And it should go without saying
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  Speaker 2: that if somebody who seems to be rational, myself, were
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  Speaker 2: to send over someone and say, hospitalize this person, he
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  Speaker 2: said in a credible way, he's going to take his life.
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  Speaker 2: The fact that he says three hours later, I won't,
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  Speaker 2: may relate to many things, like I don't want to
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  Speaker 2: go in the hospital. Right. There are people who say,
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to, uh, this is, I can't, I
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  Speaker 2: can't do that. It's going to upend my life. I've
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  Speaker 2: got a dog at home, this, that, whatever it is, um,
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  Speaker 2: doesn't mean they're not going to take their lives. In
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  Speaker 2: Lindsay Clancy's case, she's like the poster woman for the fractured, um,
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  Speaker 2: completely decimated mental health care system that we have. And
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  Speaker 2: where was she? She wasn't in podunk. uh, in the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Appalachian mountains. She was at McLean hospital. Okay. That's supposed
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  Speaker 2: to mean something, but it doesn't, by the way. Why
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  Speaker 2: doesn't it? It doesn't mean anything. The label Harvard or
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the label McLean means nothing. Why? Because there's nowhere where
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  Speaker 2: you can get comprehensive care. It doesn't exist. And so, um,
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  Speaker 2: In her case, many, many medicines. Psychiatry has done a
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  Speaker 2: really bad job at nomenclature, how to name things and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: then direct treatment at those things. So what do they do?
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  Speaker 2: They say, well, you're not sleeping. You just had a child.
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  Speaker 2: You seem to be depressed. Maybe. On the other hand,
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  Speaker 2: she could have bipolar disorder and have what's called a
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: dysphoric mania. Like, it doesn't feel good. I feel irritable
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  Speaker 2: and upset and anxious. But she's on the high, potentially,
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  Speaker 2: side of the roller coaster. You put somebody like that
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  Speaker 2: on antidepressants, you accelerate the upward trajectory. You could trigger psychosis.
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  Speaker 3: Make it worse.
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  Speaker 2: Make it worse. And prior to these events unfolding, what happens?
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  Speaker 2: They stop her antipsychotic medication, according to the records I read.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: They stop her Seroquel, and they start her on an antidepressant. Well,
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  Speaker 2: that's like taking the brakes off and putting fuel in
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  Speaker 2: if you're in the wrong situation. What does she do?
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  Speaker 2: Not saying it's necessarily cause and effect, but you'd wonder.
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  Speaker 2: She goes home, she hears voices, psychosis, and she takes
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: the lives of her children. The fact that she plans
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: that doesn't change anything. Like people think, how insane could
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: she be? She told him to go out, she did this,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: she did that. I've treated people who believe they're paranoid.
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  Speaker 2: They believe that if they don't execute, um, 11 step
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: plans with precision that the world will end, they execute
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  Speaker 2: the plans. Right. But they're crazy.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Like the, the fundamental thing is, okay, yeah, maybe
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  Speaker 2: this person got the briefcase, taped it with duct tape,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: left it at the CVS and, okay, all these things
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: require planning, but the ability to plan doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 2: you're rational. You can still be completely and utterly delusional
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: in a way that deprives you of your ability to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: conform your behavior to the law because you think you're
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: doing the right thing or you're not thinking where you
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: can't conceive of why you're doing what you're doing. But I, I,
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  Speaker 2: I would borrow a phrase from my friend, Fred Berlin.
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  Speaker 2: who testified in the Jeffrey Dahmer case and the Jeffrey
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Dahmer case when Dahmer was found guilty, not insane. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: Fred Berlin, uh, said in a legendary fashion, how many
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  Speaker 2: people do you have to eat in Milwaukee to be crazy?
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And I might say, how many children would you have
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  Speaker 2: to kill in Massachusetts, uh, to be considered clearly crazy? Well, uh, it,
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  Speaker 2: it should go without saying. to some extent, that if
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  Speaker 2: you take the lives of your own children and then
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: hurl yourself out of a house and are paralyzed, we're
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  Speaker 2: gonna call that insane. I'm comfortable calling that insane.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, my question with her isn't whether she
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: was insane or not. It was more so, does being insane,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and it's not a doctor question, right? It's more a
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: legal question. Should the criminally insane person be held criminally liable?
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I think the answer to that's yes, both and, right?
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: You can, I think, still be like Hannibal Lecter, to
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: borrow that. You can be crazy and be treated. Maybe
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: there's help, maybe there isn't, or whatever treatment you need
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: while you're in jail. And I know that there are
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: psychiatric prisons. I've seen them, few and far between, I
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: would suppose. Well, but I think, Rich, I think you're
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: totally onto something. There's a missing element in our system
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  Speaker 3: Which is this, if you are not morally, if you will,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: responsible for the deaths of children, or for that matter,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: anyone's death, or you might even say for other kinds
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: of crimes, assaults, maybe even Ponzi schemes. How crazy do
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: you have to be to lack empathy, to take people's money,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: deprive them of their hopes and dreams? What happened?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: To you for that to be the character you're left with?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: You know, that's always the case. I've never found anyone
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: who does really bad things for which you can't find
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: any explanation in their life history. So sure, it can
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: be explained. That doesn't mean that it's As though it
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: did not happen.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: In my mind, if we were to find somebody insane,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: maybe it's somebody who committed a horrible rape. Maybe it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: somebody who killed another human being. Uh, you wouldn't necessarily
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: get out of an Ablo psychiatric system married to the
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: legal system. That's what we have to do. Exactly. As
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: you've referenced any sooner, you might be there longer. So
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: take the case of rape. We don't know whether you're
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: going to do that again. We really would wonder whether
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: being in jail for nine years is going to mean
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: that you don't do it. There's lots of recidivism for
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: crimes like that. Hence, if you really go with the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: fact that you really believe that psychiatric factors drive good
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: behavior and bad behavior, you'd say you can't leave the
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: building Until we have really good reassurance that this is
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: not going to happen again. For people who've killed their kids,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: that would be never. You're never leaving the building. Now,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: do we hate you? No. No. We don't hate you.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Will we torture you? We won't. Might you find God?
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Might you pursue an education even through our library? You might. Maybe.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Miracles happen. But as to can we risk you being out,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I apologize. No. I never got why John Hinckley was released.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: These things always blow me away.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I think of these things where people get out after
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: doing these heinous things and I think if they were
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: able to do it once, maybe I believe in second chances,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: maybe I don't. But I don't want my kids in
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: the same world as some of these people.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I believe in second chances, but I don't think it's
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: given anyone a second chance. If literally on the way
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: out the door, you have to even say to that person, Hey, listen,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: we know this. There's a small chance this could happen again. Um,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and well, okay. So we're going to crush your life. Potentially, Mr. Hinkley,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: we're going to crush the life or lives of anyone
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: who might be a victim of yours. Why? Well, because
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: we favor freedom. Good. That's great. But there are limits
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: to when we can offer freedom. And the horror show
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: is when we start to say, well, because of what
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you did, even though it was a mental illness that
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: drove it, even though you lacked the ability to control yourself,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: we're going to put you in a cage, expose you
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to assault, feed you gruel, and make you want to die.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: That's not going to help either.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: That doesn't help. Why can't we, you know, I have
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: this saying, why couldn't we lock more hospitals and close
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: some prisons? Right? Because then you'd say, you're not getting
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: out anytime soon. In fact, until we do psychological testing,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: until we're utterly convinced, and it's probably, I'm sorry, sir, never.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: It may well be never until we're convinced that you're
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: not going to hurt a kid. That would be a
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: good example, a sexual offender with children. They tend to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: be recidivist. They tend to do it again. Could we
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: potentially monitor such people with the right devices on home confinement,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: et cetera? Sure. But for the ones who are egregious,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: who might get a seven-year sentence or an 11-year sentence,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: what about after that? Like maybe we need longer terms
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: of incarceration, but inhuman terms. environments where we.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, where there's treatment involved.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: It's good for us to do the treatment. In other words,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I'd rather tell... My kids are now adults, so I
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: don't tell them much of anything. But if you have
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: a 10 or 11-year-old and they're strolling past a newspaper stand,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: if there are such things anymore, I'd rather they read
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: about somebody who can't leave a healing environment and is
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: going to get help, but can't leave, rather than getting...
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: either the death penalty or quote life in prison. It's like, okay,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: this person's being punished, but that doesn't seem to answer
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: the question.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: What happened?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Why did that man do that? And, um, what's going
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: to happen next? It doesn't satisfy me to say, well,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: he's going to have to stay in a cage for
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: six years. Right. No, he better say he can't leave
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the building until we're convinced it's not going to happen again.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And that may be never.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And in some carnal way, I guess it may
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: satisfy the need for justice, the pound of flesh that
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: the victim's families are looking for. But in actuality, I
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: think I do crave this pound of flesh, but I
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: also crave for a system that works and for someone
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: to get what they deserve. And if it's help that
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: they need, let them get the help. If they have
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: to pay a debt to society, they should pay that
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: debt as well. And like you said, maybe it's longer
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: so that we can actually rehabilitate a person and say, hey,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: you're okay to reenter the world. But a comprehensive thing,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: not something that's kind of the way we're doing it now,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: where certain people are considered mentally ill and criminals and
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: others are not. And you raise a good point, which
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: is the one I've always felt is that most people
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: doing any crime, there's some sort of mental illness factor
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: To say that this one, because she did something heinous
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: like killing her kids versus someone that, like you said,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: that lacks so much empathy and clearly has some sort
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: of mental illness issue to robbing people through a Ponzi
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: scheme to the tune of billions of dollars and not caring.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Not too far off. Not too far off. And, you know,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I used to frequent prisons, whether federal or state, to
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: interview people for, you know, in cases in which I
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: would testify as a forensic psychiatrist. And I would always
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: open fire in the interview with the same question. how
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: did we get here? Like, how did we end up
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: in this room with me interviewing you for doing what
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: you did? And there's always a story about that. I
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: hope that because there are going to be malpractice cases
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: from Lindsay Clancy's side of the ledger, uh, it would
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: be really interesting. to say, as part of the discovery process,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: we're going to walk into your hospital. Because what do
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: you do if you're, you know, if you know the
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: feds are coming, you'd clean up your office or your hospital, right?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: But hospitals don't do that. So I can tell you
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: right now that if there were a demonstration project where
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: we're going to de-identify the patient information, but we're going
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: to demand from McLean Hospital or another hospital a selection
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of 50 random records from their files and from people
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: currently hospitalized with serious mental illnesses, and see how good
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: a job was done collecting their histories from other clinicians,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: for instance, and putting it all together, it will be
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: a horror show. And that demonstration would be very interesting
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: in the malpractice arena because you'd say, oh my God,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Like this isn't just about Lindsay Clancy. This is about
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: untold numbers of people who fall through the cracks because
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: all there are are cracks.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: At this point. Right. Uh, you try to sew together
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: comprehensive care. Do you know that most people suffering from depression,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: when I was practicing psychiatry, uh, before the executive coaching
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: and consulting stuff, um, I would tell people for instance,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: about TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's basically painless. It uses
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: magnetic pulses to treat depression and other conditions.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: Is that like electroshock therapy, but with magnets?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: With magnets, but you don't have any seizure unless they
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: turn up the magnets too high, which they shouldn't. Basically,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it's a tapping sound that you hear. That's it. You
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: go in for 30 minutes. You might do that 15
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: or 20 times. And in half the cases in which
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: medicines have not worked, TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation, relieves depression. Wow.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: It was as though I had given people a newsflash.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: This has been around for like 15 years. Widely available.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Insurance didn't like it. Is that what it was?
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Insurance didn't like it at the beginning. So they wouldn't pay.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So people self-paid, but it was a big ticket item.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Now it's covered. But how can it be that most psychiatrists,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: most mental health clinicians are not telling their patients, well,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: since you're not all better, Let's use the TMS.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: No.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Well, then I get to write a referral and, you know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I get to explain what is TMS and I get
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: to communicate with the TMS center so it doesn't happen. Dr.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Keith Abloh, do you think that that scenario is, again,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I hear that through my political ears and I hear
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: big pharma is blocking them. They don't have a way
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: to make money on that. It might actually work and
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: make people really well. And then they won't have a
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: need to come back and take another effects or Lexapro
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: or whatever it is that they give these days at
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: lithium and, and voila. And I think that that's a
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: major issue in, in healthcare today because politics is, you
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: can turn a blind eye to it, but it doesn't
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: mean it's not there.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Dude, it's a huge issue. The things you're saying, I
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: don't know. You don't need a guest. You could just
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: say things and cover the waterfront. But I'm happy to
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: be here. And so, yes, the whole system is geared
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: toward writing medications. If you're a doctor, psychiatrist, and you're
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: willing to see people every 10 minutes, you can make
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: like three times as much as if you're going to
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: spend an hour with your clients and listen to them
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and then prescribe. So the system is built for you
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: to reach... it's rigged for you to reach for your
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: prescription pad, know almost nothing about your patient or client
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: and write the prescription. In the middle of that, what
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: are the chances that you're going to stop down and say,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: you know, there's this other technology before we write a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: third medicine, which could cause you sexual dysfunction, could trigger
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: some other illness, could, you know, why don't we think
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: about the TMS, or why don't we think about EMDR,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: the eye movement treatment that Patrick Clancy says was so
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: helpful to him. There isn't the time for that. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: the whole momentum and push is away from that. And
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: it's also toward competent people, right? But who have less
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: education than say an MD would. So now you have
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: people writing prescriptions, let's say they're nurse clinicians, nothing wrong
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: with that. However, that's all they are really trained to do.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: So if there was ever the pharmacology aspect, the pharmacology aspects.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: So if there was ever the hope that you would
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: sit with someone who, you know, has gone through, you know,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: four years of college, four years of med school, four
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: years of residency, listening to the fires that scorch the
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: human soul, um, That's not going to happen because those
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: people have been sidelined and we don't even write out
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: the prescriptions anymore. It's all electronic, which is sort of
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: sad too, because every element of human touch is being
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: sucked out of the system. Um, psychiatry was supposed to
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: be a reservoir of humanity and empathy. What kind of
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: empathy is there in listening for 60 seconds and then saying,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: take this effects or. I think Pax, I think, you know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: let's see you in a month. In a month. Right, right.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: In a month. That's like saying, you know, I think
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to live to 100. It's like a month.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And the wait for services can be like waiting for
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: the second coming. Like it's, you can be waiting for
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: a long time to see someone. During which time, what's
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: happening for you may be nothing. I mean, in the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Clancy case, she went, what, to like an inpatient, a
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: day treatment setting for a day because she was doing
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: less well. And then they discharged her and said, you're okay.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Says who? What did you do to say she's okay?
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: And that's raising a question for me. I'd interviewed a
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: psychiatrist who had taken exception to the level of care
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: that Clancy had received, saying that her testimony under oath
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: was that she'd provided a friendly ear and hope. And
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: this doctor was very angry and said, that is not
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: what we're trained to do. We're psychiatrists. It's a way
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: bigger discipline than... a friendly ear and hope you can
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: get that from your neighbor. You can get that from
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: your sister. That's not what you're coming to a psychiatrist for. And,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you know, this was someone that, again, a little bit
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: older than me and makes me think, what are these
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: other dimensions? Because there's a lot of people, right? I'm
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: 48 and that would have gotten by me. I would
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: have thought, yeah, I guess people go to Dr. Keith
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Abla to hear hope and a friendly ear, but she
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: raised an excellent point. I can get hope and a
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: friendly ear from one of my friends from the gym, right?
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Who says, stay in the game. You got this, you know?
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: And it's what you said. I don't want to write
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: a script in 60 seconds and say, take it easy.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to you every week or twice
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: a week or whatever the case is and have a
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: professional that's trained in the pharmacological aspect as well as
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: in the therapy aspect, but real therapy, not just a
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: friendly ear and hope.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Listen, there is a place for hope and inspiration in
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: any medical specialty, of course, right? People would ask me,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: am I going to get better from this? And I
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: would say, are you going to get better? You're going
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: to get better than you ever were, or I'm not
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: going to stop. You don't even understand like that question. Why?
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Because it does no good to tell someone, well, in 87.4%
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: of the, it's like 12.6%. They're like, oh my God,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: he just told me that over 10% don't get better. No. Inspiration, hope, yes,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: but that's not what we're here for only. We are
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: here for discernment, for rendering the treatment that works, but also,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: as I used to explain to people who disagreed with
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: me about hospitalizing a client in the ER, play it backwards.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Start with there's been a calamity. Now, Will you be
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: able to explain to a third party, I did everything
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: humanly possible. There was no way I could have seen
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: this unfold. And I did everything to prevent it because
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you don't know what's going to happen. You're being intellectually
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: arrogant if you think you do. That because this person said,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I won't hurt myself or I promise I'm not going
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: to hurt someone else. They say that after what? After,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: for instance, let's say I had this experience when I
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: was a resident. training. There was a man on the unit,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: on the lock psychiatric unit. He'd been there for many years,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: maybe 17 years. Model guy, nicest guy. And they said,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: it's not reasonable to hold him anymore, even though he
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: killed two people. So let's get him ready for discharge.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And I naively at the time said, how do you
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: know how he's going to be Out there in here,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: he's nice, but in here, everybody is nice to him too.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And there aren't rugs, there aren't bars. There aren't lots
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: of things. You're not unemployed while you're in the hospital.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: You're in the hospital. Yeah. Out there, there's stress.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: You have to get a job.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: He lasted 36 hours before he killed someone else.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Right. And they thought it was inhuman of me to say,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: You can't discharge this person. I was only a trainee,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: so I had no sway, but how can you discharge
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: this person when you have no experience with him out there? Yeah. Right.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: That's a real conundrum. And that's why I would say,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know why there can't be a category called like, um, insane,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: but dangerous where it means you're not getting out of
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: the hospital. That would be the Lindsay Clancy answer. And
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: it's a tragedy. And it's tragic on her side. And
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I would be tempted to say, as she enters that facility,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I wish we knew how to ensure that you wouldn't
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: hurt anybody. But we don't know how to do that.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And so you're going to have to stay here. Because
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: we don't have a constable or a sheriff to live
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: with you. Um, which might not even be enough anyhow,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: but in any case, yeah, I think we've got to
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: get much more serious about putting the mental health care
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: system back together. If it ever was together, it used
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: to be better. Now it's now it's very, very tragic.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, that's a perfect spot to pivot. I want
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: to take a quick pause. We're going to come right
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: back folks. We're on with Dr. Keith Ablau, psychiatrist, executive coach.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: And when we come back, we're going to learn a
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: little bit more about his experiences with one of his
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: most famous clients, Hunter Biden. Don't go anywhere. All right, familia,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: welcome back. It's Rich Valdez. We continue. Dr. Keith Abloh
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: is our guest. And Dr. Keith Abloh, in addition to
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: the many books you've written and the high public profile
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: that you've maintained over the years, one of the things that,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: at least in recent history, that you are famous for
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: is being in association with Hunter Biden and helping him out.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: And this is one that I think a lot of
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: people are interested in because a lot of people don't understand.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: And kind of like the Clancy thing, just to pivot
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: for a second, I would say Clancy thing happened years ago.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: And it's in news today because it went to trial today,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: you know, these days. Similarly, Hunter Biden had some substance
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: abuse problems years ago, but I think those labels and
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: the videos and the images of him travel with him
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: despite whatever progress he had made. And I try to
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: stay cognizant of that despite you know, engaging in the
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: fodder from time to time out of ignorance and out of,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: you know, just not really understanding everything. But I want
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: you to tell us a little bit about how that
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: unfolded in the best way that you can.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, for years, people have come to see
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: me from many different places and many different places in life.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: And because they're suffering, they don't care what my politics are. Uh,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Hunter Biden's and mine are very different, maybe diametrically opposed. Um,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: but nonetheless, um, it later became known because his laptop
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: became known and everything on it, including, you know, his
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: recording of sessions with me that I didn't know he
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: was doing, um, being on there. So it became known, Hey,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: you treated Hunter Biden. Yes. Um, I did. And I
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: would treat anybody, by the way, who came to me
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: sincerely saying I need help. So it doesn't matter what
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: your politics are. That's kind of a nice thing about
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: psychiatry or for that matter, coaching. You render care to
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: those who ask for it. And it's purifying in that
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: way because you don't have to worry about the rest
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: of it. Now, he happened to leave a laptop here,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: which I asked him to pick up many times. Now,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: part of his narrative, which I like to say, I
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: don't know what his diagnosis was before. I won't share
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: that because I can't. But he might qualify for like
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: a scumbag diagnosis only because he's saying that somehow I
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: might be complicit. He wrote a Substack article. Well, maybe
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Keith Abloh somehow gave the laptop to the authorities. He
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: knows that's not true. He knows that the DEA conducted
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: a raid here and took his laptop. amongst many other things,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: never filed charges. Nothing was found. That's good. We like that. However,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I actually paid an attorney to say, Hey, get that
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: laptop back to Mr. Biden because it's not mine. It
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: looks different. It's dirty for one thing. And it has
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: stickers on it, which I would never do to my laptop.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: It's very different. They'll be able to see it in the,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: in whatever room they put my things in. Um, And
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: so he knows that. So this tale that he's spinning,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I would advise against because, you know, in the end,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: if you want to become a real boy and not Pinocchio,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: you have to live the truth and hijacking a myth
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and saying, well, you know, maybe I didn't have control
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: of my laptop and all these things could have been
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: put on it. what, what are you talking about? It's
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: you in the photos. Stop it. Um, right. Um, but it's,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: that's bad fate and might merit that scumbag diagnosis. But
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: in any case, um, it, uh, he was here. He
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: alighted in the town of Newburyport mass where I, you know,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: maintain my practice. And, uh, he, you know, wasn't private
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: about it. He was out and about getting dinners and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: this and that. And, uh, I'm glad, listen, if it's
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: authentic that he is an artist, if it's authentic that
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: he's making a comeback, good for him.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: He's laying the groundwork for a run for office. Again,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: good for him, not good for America if he prevails, which,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: you know, knowing Delaware, if Hunter Biden, if he were
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: to run for Senate in Delaware, my prediction is he
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: would win.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: People want to believe in comebacks. That's great if you
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: want to believe. But if you're going to integrate elements
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: of fiction again in your comeback story, like drugs are fiction.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: They're anesthetics. They kill your pain, but it's a lie
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: because you have to pay back with more pain later.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Don't do it again. Don't spin a tall tale on
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: your way to a political office if that's where you
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: think you're going. Because they also noted uh, some comment
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: he made on X or something where he said, just
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: saying there hasn't been a winning ticket for the Democrats
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: for president and vice president that didn't have a Biden
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: on it for decades. And I was like, Oh my God,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: he thinks he's going to be vice president or president. Um,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: stranger things have happened, I suppose.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Stranger and scarier, but on this, on this theme and
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: not necessarily on him, but, um, Apart from the scumbag diagnosis,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: which was funny and probably accurate.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: He's working on it. He's working towards it. I'm getting
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: ready to write it down.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: There are people like that. I know people in my
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: own life that I've known since I went to high
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: school and I see them and I don't, I'm not
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: going to say they're scumbags. I think they're wonderful people,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: but they're stuck in their own way. They're stuck with
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: their own bad habits, their own bad choices. And they
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: never seem to realize that they seem to think somehow
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: it's your fault, right? The laptop and all that shenanigans
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: on the laptop. That's Abloh's fault, right? This is all
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: his fault. How, what, what really is happening to a
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: person there? Everybody likes to say these are narcissists, that
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: they're never at fault, but is that really what it is?
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Is it something else? Is it some deep rooted insecurity
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: where people are unable? I, myself at times have had
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: a hard time saying, oh, that was my fault. I'm sorry.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: in particular with my children, you know, things like that.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: But you realize these things at some point. And I'm wondering,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: people who can't, and it's clear, like to the point where,
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: you know how they say, if you have forgetfulness or scatterbrain,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: that's normal. But if it gets in the way of
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: your life, it's ADHD, right? It becomes a disorder. When
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: people are on public assistance, are seeking help wherever they
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: can get it, asking for prayer, asking for whatever, but
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: won't get out of their own way, and then get
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: mad when you say, I can't help you with that.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: And like, oh, that's why I don't like church people.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: What is going on with these people?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: How do you help them? Well, there's only the one,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: there's the path to real help, which is real self-reflection,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: really wrestling with the truth. And people tend to run
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: from that because it's painful. But if you can motivate
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: them and sort of take them by the hand and say, listen,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: some of these things you're running from, They happened when
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you were a much younger person, and you're remembering them
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: with the heart and mind of, very often, of a kid.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Is this like the wounded inner child?
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: The wounded inner child, but you're not a child anymore. Right.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And you can revisit the scene of the crime, whatever happened,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: integrate it into who you are, and then, yes, apologize
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: for what has transpired. Own it. People are forgiving. they
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: do have a sixth sense, a sort of internal barometer
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: for the truth. If you tell the truth, it will
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: resonate with people, right? If you tell them a fiction,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: it really won't. There'll be something at the back of
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: their minds like, ah, that doesn't make sense to me, right?
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: And so when you're reconstructing yourself, when you're making a comeback,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: the most direct path is to say, okay, I got
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: to really take a deep look into my own soul
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: figure out what went wrong, be willing, if possible, to
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: talk about it, not be afraid of it. That's a
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: good sign to yourself, by the way, that you're not afraid,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: that you're willing to talk about it. So Hunter's been
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: partway there. Anything that's in a photo, he's willing to say, yeah,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: that's a photo of me doing coke, and yes, I'm naked.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: But beyond that, we don't have much. Like, well, what
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: else are you feeling you were suboptimal with in terms of,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: you know, what about denying your child and the fact
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: that your dad did that do you think that was
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: that that injured your daughter or your daughter's mother um
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: is that the character that you want to have and
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: but he's not my patient so anymore so i'm just um.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Right now and that's been disclosed i interviewed her the
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: mom and and she shared a lot about that and
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: there was a lot of things i didn't know you
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: know i thought at first that she just wanted some
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: publicity and after speaking her i really realized she went
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: through a lot. She really went through a lot. It
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: wasn't just a denial. There was like an elaborate, almost
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: coverup to say, no, that's not my kid. And the
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: white house stepped involved to make sure they were, it
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: was ugly to say the least.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Well, who does that is what my, is what my, my, uh,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: dearly departed mother would have said. Who does that? Yeah.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: How I, again, I don't, dislike anyone. So I really
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: want to help people and heal them. So I would
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: present that to anyone who had demonstrated that behavior and say,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: what's that? Like, you don't seem to resonate with what
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: it might mean to a little girl to learn later
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: on that she was denied. Even maybe you embrace her later,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: but it's late. Like she's, there are headlines being generated here,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: but how you said she wasn't forever that lasts forever.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: And it's not about you anymore. You have to own
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: your own pain. Uh, it reminds me for some reason,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid growing up in high school
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: and college, I worked for a jeweler to make some
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: money on the side at his store. He'd been married
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: five times. And I said, Hey, Jack, what can you
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: tell me about marriage? And cause I thought I'm going to,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I was going to be a psychiatrist. And he said, well,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: I can tell you this. The first four you start,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: it's them. She's the one.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: They're the one.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: The first four. But it takes a long time and
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: it can take a lifetime to realize, wait a second,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's me. And that doesn't make me the devil.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I've lived through things. I've been There have been things
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: that have cut me very deeply. I've underperformed because of
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: these things. I now see the chain of events that
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: led to that happening. And I'm going to own it.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean I go to hell. It doesn't
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: mean I'm the devil. It means I'm human. It means
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I'm human. It was always the thing I found fault
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: with Bill Clinton for. Not that he had an affair,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: but that he denied it. Like, because it deprived so
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: many people of saying, oh, you too? Right. Right? Like,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: so you're president of the United States, you look across
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: an office and you're like, I feel drawn to this person. Really? Like,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: you have the weight of the world on your shoulders,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I get it. But can you take us inside that
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: so we can hear more about it? Because you're talking
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: to millions of Americans who've had the same thing happen. Right.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: They just weren't in the Oval Office and they weren't presidents.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Maybe we could learn. Maybe this happened for a reason.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: But then you short circuit that because why? Well, because
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: if you're afraid it trumps love too often, love would
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: make you share so that you could be part of
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the community of man and show your wounds. If you're
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: in fear, you cover up, you run. Maybe you run
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: to a Senate race or you run for vice president
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: in order to try to cleanse yourself of your laptop. Wow.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: That's fascinating. Dr. Keith, I have one more question for you,
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to take another quick pause. We're going
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: to come right back and to set it up. I
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: want to talk about whether it's Hunter, me, you, anybody
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: who's fallen from grace, who's, who's made a rebound. What
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: are the steps to that? How do you, you know,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: what's the best advice you have for somebody to put
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: those pieces back together? We're coming right back with Dr.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Keith Abloh. All right, familia, welcome back. We're in the
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: final stretch of our marathon conversation here with Dr. Abloh.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: What a pleasure it's been. Worth the wait. And Dr.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Keith Abloh, we talked about a lot of things, and
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: thank you. And you unpacked them really well, and I
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: appreciate it. And I think we've talked about, I feel,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? I tried
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: to approach every scenario from every side, whether I was
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: judgmental about it or not, because... there's a lot of
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: people listening and they deserve to hear all of these aspects.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: And I know that all of us, whether, like I said,
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: whether it's Hunter Biden, yourself, myself, anybody, Bill Clinton, we
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: just talked about, have had indiscretions where they've fallen from grace,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: so to speak, had to rebuild, get on a new
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: path towards a new way. And you've written about this
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: in your books, but take a moment to help the
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: audience hear What that sounds like from your best perspective,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: if somebody's asking you, Dr. Keith, I screwed up. I'm
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: not even able to admit that I've screwed up, but
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you that I've screwed up in confidentiality.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: How do these people, Bill Clinton, for example, who made
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: this mistake, everybody knew, but he thought nobody knew. I
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: did not have sex with that woman. How do we
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: get away from lying and going back to the old
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: ways that have people trapped in this cycle?
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's probably a, you know, a longer discussion
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: than a minute, but nonetheless, here's a few pointers. One
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: is you get to figure out the why. That's your job.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: It didn't happen for no reason. It's not an accident
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: in that way. So you want to trace the roots
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: of whatever happened in whatever way you underperformed, whatever way
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: you skinned your knees, or maybe it cost other people something.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: You got to figure out why did that happen? Okay, well,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: that's the art form to some extent of introspection. Real
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: psychiatrists and psychotherapists can help with that. A little meditation
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: might help with that. But having a guide is not
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: a bad idea to do it with a partner. And
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I still think that the right therapist can be a
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: very good partner in that regard, the right one. Secondly,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: for those people who would say, it feels like it's
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: over for me. I would say, no. In fact, your
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: job is to think, why did this happen in the
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: best sense? What could it, how could this be turned
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: to the good? Yeah. Even though, you know, it might
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: be mind boggling. I don't see how good can come
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: out of this. No, it's okay. You don't see it
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: right now. Let's just start thinking about it. Right. And
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: then I would say for those people who say, I
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: feel like it's over, I would say, do you see
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: anybody in a movie theater? When Tom Cruise is in trouble,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: throwing away their popcorn and saying, let's get out of here. Yeah,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: it's over. Nobody does that. We only do that in
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: our own stories and it's not recommended. It's painful at times,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: but your job is to sit tight and just say,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: I wonder what's going to happen. Because time is a
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: great healer. And if your intention is, I'm going to
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: somehow repurpose this to the good, I'm going to be
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: very alert for that. how I can do that. And
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: one of the ways you can do that, though not easy,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: is to rip your chest open and say, this is
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: my story. This is the absolute truth about what I
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: went through, what resulted from it, and I think it
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: might be helpful to you or you or you guys, right?
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: The whole 12-step movement is built on that. Basically, listen, yeah,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: some terrible things unfolded here, here's the truth of what happened.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: I take responsibility. Um, and I'm trying to inspire other people,
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: people who are part of that movement, um, to do
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: the same. If you've had those experiences now, I don't
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: know anyone by the way, who hasn't gone through real pain.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Nobody escapes unscathed from this life of ours. Hence, uh,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: to the extent that you can talk about your pain and, um,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: turn it into power for yourself and other people. That's heroic. Uh,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: even if there was harm done, it's still heroic to
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: try to turn it to the good. And God's not
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: done with any of us. Right. Right. I mean, it's,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: it's a longer journey than that. And sometimes you don't
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: know who you inspire to be a better person. You
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: don't get to know that maybe it's, Your grandson who
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: knows that his or her grandfather, his grandfather, you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: took the chance to open up and really come clean
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: about certain things. Good, because that kid might need it
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: 20 years from now when he hears the story. Even
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: stories are very powerful. Narrative really matters. And so I
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: would say never conclude it's over for you. Be very
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: alert to opportunities to repurpose pain into power. And assume
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: this happened in order to make me stronger. This happened
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: in order to make me stronger. I fell down in
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: order to get up in a stronger way. And don't
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: expect it to be next month. You might be reconstructing
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: yourself for quite some time because very often it takes
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: people decades of unconscious thinking churning for the bad stuff
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: to manifest in order for you to then be able
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: to look at it and say, Oh my God, what
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: was I thinking? Well, here's what you lived through. Here's
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: what that led you to do. You thought, for instance,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: you thought money would solve all your problems, right? So
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: you embarked on that. It was never enough money because
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: you were using it as a drug. I'm just spinning
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: an example, the drug you needed more and more of
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: the drug. So you started that Ponzi scheme. It overrode
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: everything you knew about the world and all of your
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: ethics and morals. And now we find ourselves here in jail, sir. Okay.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: What are we going to do now? Because it ain't over. Right.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: And you can still win. What does winning look like?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It looks like turning this to the best possible outcome
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: you can with humility and pain, because it's not easy
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes to come forward with, Hey, this is who I
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: really am. I'm a real human being. And that's, you know,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: when we talked about, uh, the Clinton affair or, you know,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Arnold Schwarzenegger, right. Having an affair. What, what is that? Well,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: it's a potential treasure chest for the rest of us.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: If that person were able to say, listen, I blew
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: myself up bigger than a Ninja turtle. You think I'm normal?
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not normal. Like I felt small inside. And that
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: led me to want conquests of every kind. And now
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I'm reassessing all that. And why did I have to
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: look like I was wearing armor? Did I feel that
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: vulnerable that I had to wear armor? Yeah, that's probably
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: my guess. Otherwise, you don't do that thing, right, and
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: look like a Ninja Turtle. What is that, you know?
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: and if you marry that guy and you think you're
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: gonna be everything to him I would suggest well really
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: you think that because you did see him like that
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: on the cover of 50,000 magazines right you think that
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: guy is gonna be your guy period like Let's think
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: Interesting way of looking at it.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: Keith Abloh, you've written some great books. We spoke about
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: the most recent one last time. I want you to
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: remind the audience of the title and exactly how they
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: can get a copy today.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Sure. The title is A Matter of Life and Death,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: The Importance of Being Cain. So it's available on Amazon,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble, anywhere books are sold online. You can
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: get it, and it's about a man who decides he
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: has to remake his life from the bottom up, but
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: he does it in a very unique way.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Outstanding. Check it out, and give everybody your website for
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: people who want to follow you and check out all
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: the work you're doing.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: So it's keithablo.com. Couldn't be any easier, and you can
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: get in touch with me right from there. And if
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: somebody needs help remaking their life, that's what I like
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: to do, or remaking their company, for that matter. Sometimes
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: the things are one thing. Those two things can be
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: one thing. because after all, the things we create come
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: from us. So you got to be at your best. Outstanding.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Sir, you're a gentleman, a scholar.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: And you are too.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: And a patriot. I thank you for being here and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: I look forward to more conversations in the future. Godspeed.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Rich. Take care, man.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: And there you have it. Thank you, Dr.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Keith Abloh.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: And make sure you check out my interview with Maureen Steele,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: my interview with Brandon Bryce. Uh, Everything that we're doing here,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to share it with you. You know where
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: to go, richvaldez.com. Do what you got to do. Hasta
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: la proxima. I always like to leave you with a thought,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: which is you got to stand for something because if
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. And the
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: people like you to sit there and do nothing.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Hasta la proxima.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: Take care. Good night.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: And God bless you, America. I'm Rich Valdez.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: And this This is America.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: This is America.