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Roderick Mulgan: Criminal Defence Lawyer on the lower threshold for the Three Strikes law · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The government's toughening the three Strikes Bill by lowering the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: qualifying sentence threshold. What does that mean. Well, initially it
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: was proposing the threshold you would have to reach in
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  Speaker 1: order to be considered for your first strike a sentence
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  Speaker 1: of twenty four months or more. They're lowering that down
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  Speaker 1: to twelve months, which means lesser crimes will get you
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: your first strike. You can then go on to get
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: your second and third, but would require a twenty four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: month imprisonment minimum term in order to get your second
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and third strike. Roderic mulgan is a criminal defense lawyer.
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  Speaker 1: He joins US Live this morning. Roderick, Good morning, Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the show.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, Ryan, how are you good?
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  Speaker 1: Thank you? Is this going to make much of a difference.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yes, it'll catch more people in the net, which
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  Speaker 2: is of course they're intending. I think, of course, need
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  Speaker 2: to point out that when you refer to those sentences,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: you're referring to the maximum sentence available for the crime
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  Speaker 2: on the statu're not the actual sentence yes that the
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: person might get. Yes, so you know you might not
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  Speaker 2: get twenty four months in jail. But if that's the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: sentence for that crime. Then you've ticked the box. You've
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  Speaker 2: got to strike.
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  Speaker 1: What types of crimes would fall under the twelve months
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  Speaker 1: as opposed to the twenty four wow.
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  Speaker 2: All sorts of tents and burgeries and assaults. It's it's
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  Speaker 2: quite common that the sorts of crimes that come before
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  Speaker 2: the courts I have those terms of imprisonments attached low level.
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  Speaker 2: In decent assaults, that sort of thing. Certainly burglary, certainly thing.
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  Speaker 1: So burglary and theft could get you your first strike then,
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  Speaker 1: but then you would have to be really bad to
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  Speaker 1: get your second and third.
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  Speaker 2: You just had to be a bit with In fact,
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  Speaker 2: those crimes would qualify under the twenty four month mark
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  Speaker 2: as well.
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  Speaker 1: True, So all in all, is this going to make
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  Speaker 1: New Zealand safer?
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  Speaker 2: So that's the big question, and that's what the politicians
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  Speaker 2: as certain that it will. It will certainly put people
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  Speaker 2: in jail for longer. Whether that's a good thing, it's
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  Speaker 2: an entirely different question. The idea that you can keep
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  Speaker 2: society safe by just locking people up for very long
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  Speaker 2: periods of time and forgiving where you left the key
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  Speaker 2: is a bit old fashioned. It has perverse effects. So,
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  Speaker 2: for instance, if you're going up for a sentence and
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  Speaker 2: you agree to things like undertaking reatabilitation, you get a discount,
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  Speaker 2: which is a good thing. But if you have an
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  Speaker 2: automatic the judge can't vary at rule that you must
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  Speaker 2: get the maximum sentence, then you no longer engage in
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  Speaker 2: those sorts of activities to get yourself a discount.
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  Speaker 1: But if you've done strike one, strike two, strike three,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, at some point, isn't it more for us.
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  Speaker 2: More?
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  Speaker 1: Aren't we the fool for believing it? You know that
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  Speaker 1: they'll change, joy that the remorseful when it's.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. Lots of people get strings of
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  Speaker 2: sentences over years, but they're still capable of changing, improving,
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  Speaker 2: having periods of time where they don't offend. A fending
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  Speaker 2: is complicated. It's not just the case of the bad people.
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  Speaker 2: People offend because they have substance peerce issues, because they're
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  Speaker 2: low IQ, because they don't have they're not embedded in
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  Speaker 2: family support networks, they lack life skills. It's a complicated business,
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  Speaker 2: and you can't just say I will lock you up
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  Speaker 2: for longer and you'll learn your lesson. And the other
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  Speaker 2: big problem is that you get seriously disproportionate outcomes and
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  Speaker 2: there was a famous case that came out the last time.
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  Speaker 2: This is on the statute books. Gramman, who had some
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  Speaker 2: mental health issues, tried to kiss a woman on the.
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  Speaker 1: Street and it was completely overblowing basically, wasn't it.
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  Speaker 2: And that was indecent assault. He got seven because that
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  Speaker 2: was the third one. Yeah, that's the problem.
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  Speaker 1: Roderick, thank you very much for your time. As always,
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  Speaker 1: Roderic mulgan, who is a criminal defense lawyer.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, Listen live
• 4:12
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• 4:13
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• 4:16
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